england_n and_o in_o her_o separation_n from_o rome_n p._n 168_o a_o passage_n in_o the_o irenicum_fw-la clear_v p._n 170_o how_o far_o idolatry_n consistent_a with_o own_v the_o fundamental_a article_n of_o faith_n p._n 175_o t._n g.'s_n shuffle_a about_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o second_o commandment_n p._n 186_o three_o conference_n about_o the_o nature_n of_o idolatry_n p._n 195_o a_o abstract_n of_o the_o design_n of_o dr._n st.'s_n general_a discourse_n of_o the_o nature_n of_o idolatry_n p._n 196_o of_o the_o manner_n of_o t._n g.'s_n answer_v it_o p._n 200_o the_o postulata_fw-la grant_v by_o he_o p._n 203_o many_o material_a omission_n in_o t._n g.'s_n answer_n p._n 205_o of_o the_o patronus_fw-la bonae_fw-la fidei_fw-la and_o the_o service_n he_o do_v the_o papist_n p._n 208_o the_o disparity_n between_o bow_v towards_o the_o altar_n and_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n at_o large_a clear_v p._n 211_o of_o the_o difference_n between_o reverence_n to_o sacred_a place_n and_o 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believe_v it_o not_o to_o be_v bread_n but_o the_o body_n of_o the_o son_n of_o god_n r._n p._n but_o t._n g._n observe_v that_o the_o formal_a term_n of_o idolatrous_a worship_n be_v a_o undue_a object_n 328._o viz._n a_o creature_n instead_o of_o the_o creator_n but_o catholic_n in_o case_n of_o a_o mistake_n will_v have_v no_o other_o formal_a object_n in_o their_o mind_n but_o the_o creator_n himself_o p._n d._n as_o though_o the_o nature_n of_o idolatry_n do_v consist_v in_o the_o worship_n of_o a_o creature_n know_v it_o to_o be_v a_o mere_a creature_n may_v not_o the_o heathen_n have_v say_v they_o have_v no_o other_o formal_a object_n of_o adoration_n in_o their_o mind_n but_o god_n but_o suppose_v he_o unite_v to_o the_o part_n of_o the_o world_n they_o may_v worship_v they_o on_o his_o account_n as_o well_o as_o those_o of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n give_v adoration_n to_o that_o which_o appear_v to_o be_v mere_a bread_n if_o they_o who_o worship_v the_o sun_n on_o the_o 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sun_n to_o remain_v but_o they_o do_v not_o intend_v to_o terminate_v their_o worship_n on_o that_o substance_n but_o on_o the_o divinity_n unite_v to_o it_o and_o to_o suppose_v that_o not_o to_o be_v bread_n which_o be_v real_o bread_n do_v no_o more_o excuse_n from_o idolatry_n than_o suppose_v that_o not_o to_o be_v a_o mere_a creature_n which_o real_o be_v no_o more_o but_o to_o drive_v this_o matter_n home_o to_o you_o i_o will_v ask_v a_o far_a question_n be_v those_o idolater_n who_o worship_v the_o part_n of_o the_o world_n as_o a_o part_n of_o the_o substance_n of_o god_n himself_o so_o that_o he_o be_v one_o and_o all_o r._n
proposal_n he_o make_v about_o temper_v episcopacy_n they_o be_v no_o other_o than_o what_o king_n charles_n 1._o and_o mr._n thorndike_n have_v make_v before_o he_o and_o do_v t._n g._n think_v they_o design_v to_o ruin_v the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o as_o long_o as_o he_o declare_v this_o to_o be_v the_o design_n of_o his_o book_n both_o at_o the_o beginning_n and_o conclusion_n of_o it_o suppose_v he_o be_v mistake_v in_o the_o mean_v he_o take_v must_v such_o a_o man_n be_v present_o condemn_v as_o one_o that_o aim_v at_o the_o ruin_n and_o destruction_n of_o the_o church_n r._n p._n but_o t._n g._n say_v he_o tender_v it_o to_o consideration_n after_o episcopacy_n be_v resettled_a by_o law_n p._n d._n that_o be_v as_o true_a as_o other_o of_o his_o suggestion_n the_o book_n be_v print_v while_o thing_n be_v unsettle_a and_o be_v intend_v to_o remove_v the_o violent_a prejudices_fw-la of_o the_o dissent_v party_n against_o episcopal_a government_n and_o i_o have_v hear_v do_v considerable_a service_n that_o way_n at_o least_o in_o a_o neighbour_n kingdom_n and_o it_o happen_v to_o be_v reprint_v afterward_o with_o the_o same_o title_n it_o have_v before_o but_o what_o then_o do_v not_o bookseller_n look_v on_o book_n as_o their_o own_o and_o do_v what_o they_o please_v with_o they_o without_o the_o author_n consent_n or_o approbation_n have_v he_o ever_o preach_v or_o write_v any_o doctrine_n since_o contrary_a to_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n have_v he_o make_v any_o party_n or_o faction_n to_o the_o disturbance_n of_o the_o peace_n of_o the_o church_n have_v he_o not_o conform_v to_o its_o rule_n observe_v its_o office_n obey_v his_o superior_n and_o be_v ready_a to_o defend_v its_o cause_n against_o adversary_n of_o all_o sort_n and_o can_v malice_n itself_o after_o all_o this_o fasten_v such_o a_o calumny_n upon_o he_o that_o he_o be_v a_o secret_a enemy_n to_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o design_n to_o ruin_n and_o destroy_v it_o i_o remember_v a_o poor_a englishman_n in_o amboyna_n be_v cruel_o torment_v by_o the_o dutch_a and_o find_v nothing_o he_o can_v say_v will_v persuade_v his_o tormentor_n to_o release_v he_o and_o he_o say_v any_o thing_n that_o he_o think_v will_v prevail_v with_o they_o at_o last_o he_o pray_v god_n that_o he_o may_v tell_v they_o probable_a lie_n i_o will_v advise_v t._n g._n the_o next_o time_n he_o go_v a_o mole-catching_a to_o find_v out_o probable_a plot_n otherwise_o he_o will_v lose_v all_o the_o reputation_n of_o a_o informer_n and_o discoverer_n but_o i_o can_v hardly_o tell_v whether_o his_o plot_n or_o his_o proof_n be_v the_o worse_o for_o as_o there_o appear_v no_o likelihood_n in_o the_o plot_n so_o there_o be_v no_o evidence_n in_o the_o proof_n there_o be_v nothing_o pretend_v since_o the_o irenicum_fw-la but_o this_o charge_n of_o idolatry_n and_o that_o have_v be_v sufficient_o clear_v already_o by_o show_v that_o it_o do_v not_o subvert_v the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n r._n p._n let_v we_o now_o if_o you_o please_v proceed_v to_o the_o other_o dangerous_a consequence_n of_o this_o charge_n as_o they_o be_v muster_v up_o by_o t._n g._n one_o be_v that_o it_o overthrow_v the_o article_n of_o the_o holy_a catholic_n church_n p._n d._n that_o be_v something_o indeed_o what_o do_v it_o take_v away_o a_o article_n of_o the_o creed_n nay_o then_o it_o be_v time_n to_o look_v about_o we_o but_o how_o i_o pray_v r._n p._n i_o will_v tell_v you_o how_o if_o the_o church_n have_v be_v guilty_a of_o idolatry_n 1._o then_o she_o have_v require_v and_o enjoin_v idolatry_n 67._o for_o many_o hundred_o of_o year_n parallel_v to_o the_o heathen_n 2._o then_o mahomet_n have_v more_o wisdom_n and_o power_n to_o carry_v on_o his_o design_n than_o the_o son_n of_o god_n for_o his_o follower_n have_v be_v preserve_v from_o it_o by_o the_o ground_n he_o lay_v above_o a_o thousand_o year_n 3._o then_o our_o forefather_n have_v better_o be_v convert_v to_o judaisme_n or_o turcism_n than_o to_o christianity_n as_o they_o be_v p._n d._n i_o deny_v every_o one_o of_o these_o consequence_n for_o our_o present_a dispute_n be_v only_o about_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v guilty_a of_o idolatry_n and_o from_o thence_o 1_o it_o do_v not_o follow_v that_o the_o whole_a christian_a church_n must_v require_v idolatry_n if_o that_o do_v unless_o t._n g._n have_v prove_v that_o all_o other_o church_n be_v equal_o involve_v in_o the_o same_o guilt_n which_o he_o never_o attempt_v 2._o it_o do_v not_o follow_v that_o mahomet_n be_v wise_a than_o christ_n for_o if_o you_o compare_v the_o ground_n lay_v for_o divine_a worship_n by_o christ_n and_o mahomet_n i_o say_v that_o christ_n do_v show_v infinite_o more_o wisdom_n in_o they_o than_o so_o vile_a a_o impostor_n and_o it_o be_v a_o shame_n for_o any_o christian_n to_o suggest_v the_o contrary_a but_o if_o t._n g._n speak_v of_o power_n to_o carry_v on_o his_o design_n than_o it_o must_v suppose_v that_o mahomet_n power_n have_v preserve_v the_o mahometan_a religion_n so_o long_o free_a from_o idolatry_n although_o christ_n have_v not_o which_o must_v imply_v the_o greatness_n of_o mahomet_n power_n in_o heaven_n and_o so_o it_o border_n upon_o blasphemy_n 3._o it_o do_v not_o follow_v that_o our_o forefather_n have_v better_o be_v convert_v to_o judaisme_n or_o turcism_n than_o to_o christianity_n for_o they_o have_v incomparable_o great_a advantage_n towards_o their_o salvation_n than_o either_o turk_n or_o pagan_n and_o such_o circumstance_n may_v accompany_v their_o practice_n of_o idolatry_n as_o may_v make_v it_o not_o to_o hinder_v their_o salvation_n but_o i_o shall_v give_v you_o a_o full_a answer_n to_o this_o in_o the_o word_n of_o bishop_n sanderson_n who_o be_v another_o competent_a witness_n if_o any_o more_o be_v needful_a that_o dr._n st._n do_v not_o in_o the_o charge_n of_o idolatry_n contradict_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n we_o have_v much_o reason_n to_o conceive_v good_a hope_n of_o the_o salvation_n of_o many_o of_o our_o forefather_n who_o 17._o lead_v away_o with_o the_o common_a superstition_n of_o those_o blind_a time_n may_v yet_o by_o those_o general_a truth_n which_o by_o the_o mercy_n of_o god_n be_v preserve_v among_o the_o foul_a over-spreadings_a of_o popery_n agreeable_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n though_o clog_v with_o a_o addition_n of_o many_o superstition_n and_o antichristian_a invention_n withal_o be_v bring_v to_o true_a faith_n in_o the_o son_n of_o god_n unfeigned_a repentance_n from_o dead_a work_n and_o a_o sincere_a desire_n and_o endeavour_v of_o new_a and_o holy_a obedience_n this_o be_v the_o religion_n that_o bring_v they_o to_o heaven_n even_o faith_n and_o repentance_n and_o obedience_n this_o be_v the_o true_a and_o the_o old_a and_o the_o catholic_n religion_n and_o this_o be_v our_o religion_n in_o which_o we_o hope_v to_o find_v salvation_n and_o if_o ever_o any_o of_o you_o that_o miscall_v yourselves_o catholic_n come_v to_o heaven_n it_o be_v this_o religion_n must_v carry_v you_o thither_o if_o together_o with_o this_o true_a religion_n of_o faith_n repentance_n and_o obedience_n they_o embrace_v also_o your_o addition_n as_o their_o blind_a guide_n then_o lead_v they_o pray_v to_o our_o lady_n kneel_v to_o a_o image_n creep_v to_o a_o cross_n flock_v to_o a_o mass_n as_o you_o now_o do_v these_o be_v their_o spot_n and_o their_o blemish_n these_o be_v their_o hay_n and_o stubble_n these_o be_v their_o error_n and_o their_o ignorances_n and_o i_o doubt_v not_o but_o as_o s._n paul_n for_o his_o blasphemy_n and_o persecution_n so_o they_o obtain_v mercy_n for_o these_o sin_n because_o they_o do_v they_o ignorant_o in_o misbelief_n and_o upon_o the_o same_o ground_n we_o have_v cause_n also_o to_o hope_v charitable_o of_o many_o thousand_o poor_a soul_n in_o italy_n spain_n and_o other_o part_n of_o the_o christian_a world_n at_o this_o day_n that_o by_o the_o same_o bless_a mean_n they_o may_v attain_v mercy_n and_o salvation_n in_o the_o end_n although_o in_o the_o mean_a time_n through_o ignorance_n they_o defile_v themselves_o with_o much_o foul_a idolatry_n and_o many_o gross_a superstition_n obj._n but_o the_o ignorance_n which_o excuse_v from_o sin_n be_v ignorantia_fw-la facti_fw-la according_a to_o that_o have_v be_v already_o declare_v but_o they_o be_v ignorantia_fw-la juris_fw-la which_o excuse_v not_o and_o beside_o as_o they_o live_v in_o the_o practice_n of_o that_o worship_n which_o we_o call_v idolatry_n so_o they_o die_v in_o the_o same_o without_o repentance_n and_o so_o their_o case_n be_v not_o the_o same_o with_o s._n paul_n who_o see_v those_o sin_n and_o sorrow_v for_o they_o and_o forsake_v they_o but_o how_o can_v idolater_n live_v and_o die_v so_o without_o
into_o this_o matter_n r._n p._n t._n g._n refer_v to_o the_o page_n but_o he_o never_o mention_n the_o occasion_n it_o be_v such_o a_o page_n 599._o p._n d._n let_v we_o see_v what_o dr._n st._n be_v prove_v in_o that_o place_n it_o be_v that_o by_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a as_o it_o be_v explain_v by_o the_o divine_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n true_a and_o real_a worship_n be_v to_o be_v give_v to_o image_n 575._o and_o for_o this_o he_o produce_v the_o several_a testimony_n of_o suarez_n medina_n victoria_n catharinus_n naclantus_fw-la bellarmine_n soto_n velosillus_n pujol_n tannerus_n ysambertus_n bassaeus_n silvius_n arriaga_n and_o at_o last_o card._n lugo_n if_o the_o thing_n be_v not_o prove_v which_o he_o design_v why_o be_v card._n lugo_n alone_o produce_v if_o it_o be_v prove_v why_o be_v card._n lugo_n produce_v at_o all_o r.p._n because_o he_o leave_v out_o aliquis_fw-la and_o dici_fw-la potest_fw-la p._n d._n but_o suppose_v the_o other_o be_v sufficient_a to_o express_v his_o concurrence_n with_o the_o rest_n what_o unfairness_n be_v there_o in_o that_o to_o shorten_v his_o word_n when_o he_o lay_v no_o weight_n upon_o the_o manner_n but_o upon_o the_o thing_n have_v dr._n st._n charge_v lugo_n with_o hold_v great_a submission_n than_o the_o rest_n and_o then_o leave_v out_o the_o qualify_a expression_n he_o have_v do_v he_o injury_n but_o he_o know_v lugo_n mean_v no_o more_o than_o the_o rest_n and_o produce_v he_o for_o no_o other_o purpose_n if_o there_o be_v but_o any_o inward_a affection_n carry_v to_o the_o image_n which_o may_v be_v call_v a_o certain_a kind_n of_o submission_n to_o the_o image_n it_o be_v all_o one_o to_o dr._n st.'s_n purpose_n which_o be_v only_o to_o prove_v as_o he_o say_v in_o the_o same_o page_n from_o the_o act_n of_o the_o council_n and_o the_o judgement_n of_o their_o learned_a and_o eminent_a divine_n that_o by_o the_o decree_n of_o the_o nicene_n council_n such_o true_a and_o real_a worship_n be_v to_o be_v give_v to_o image_n as_o be_v terminate_v upon_o the_o image_n themselves_o do_v these_o testimony_n prove_v this_o or_o do_v they_o not_o if_o they_o do_v not_o why_o do_v not_o t._n g._n discover_v they_o all_o if_o they_o do_v why_o do_v he_o so_o vain_o cavil_v about_o some_o thing_n impertinent_a to_o the_o main_a business_n in_o the_o very_a last_o of_o all_o so_o that_o after_o all_o this_o cry_n there_o be_v very_o little_a wool_n unless_o it_o be_v that_o which_o be_v make_v of_o goat_n hair_n r._n p._n but_o this_o tend_v to_o breed_v a_o impression_n in_o the_o reader_n that_o the_o inward_a affection_n card._n lugo_n require_v be_v of_o give_v submission_n to_o a_o image_n as_o superior_a because_o in_o another_o place_n he_o quote_v the_o same_o author_n for_o make_v cultus_fw-la to_o signify_v reverence_n towards_o superior_n p._n d._n but_o do_v not_o the_o cardinal_n say_v so_o r._n p._n t._n g._n say_v nothing_o to_o the_o contrary_a which_o i_o be_o sure_a he_o will_v have_v do_v if_o he_o have_v not_o p._n d._n well_o then_o lugo_n make_v worship_n to_o be_v a_o reverence_n towards_o superior_n but_o he_o say_v that_o true_a worship_n be_v due_a to_o image_n and_o be_v not_o this_o make_v the_o image_n superior_a r._n p._n i_o think_v where_o i_o shall_v have_v you_o but_o t._n g._n have_v explain_v lugo_n mean_v from_o himself_o p._n d._n let_v i_o hear_v it_o as_o t._n g._n that_o candid_a and_o ingenuous_a dealer_n have_v it_o r._n p._n 1._o he_o say_v when_o we_o worship_v a_o image_n the_o inward_a affection_n be_v not_o carry_v to_o the_o image_n after_o the_o same_o manner_n it_o be_v to_o the_o prototype_n for_o we_o worship_v the_o prototype_n absolute_o i._n e._n for_o its_o own_o proper_a excellency_n but_o the_o image_n only_o with_o a_o relative_a worship_n i._n e._n for_o the_o excellency_n not_o of_o the_o image_n itself_o but_o of_o the_o prototype_n which_o kind_n of_o worship_n he_o affirm_v to_o be_v far_o inferior_a to_o the_o other_o which_o be_v absolute_a 2._o we_o have_v not_o the_o same_o inward_a submission_n towards_o the_o image_n which_o we_o have_v towards_o the_o prototype_n for_o we_o submit_v ourselves_o to_o the_o prototype_n acknowledge_v it_o to_o be_v more_o excellent_a than_o ourselves_o and_o superior_a to_o we_o which_o kind_n of_o submission_n we_o can_v prudent_o conceive_v to_o belong_v to_o a_o image_n nor_o indeed_o any_o at_o all_o by_o which_o we_o submit_v ourselves_o to_o it_o prefer_v it_o before_o we_o 3._o the_o sole_a external_a act_n of_o kiss_v or_o bow_v be_v not_o so_o carry_v to_o the_o image_n but_o that_o some_o inward_a affection_n also_o go_v along_o with_o it_o which_o he_o say_v may_v be_v call_v also_o some_o kind_n of_o affection_n of_o submission_n by_o which_o he_o mean_v a_o affection_n of_o submit_v ourselves_o to_o the_o image_n for_o as_o much_o as_o the_o act_n of_o the_o will_n from_o which_o it_o proceed_v be_v a_o affection_n of_o perform_v those_o act_n about_o their_o image_n which_o we_o be_v wont_n to_o exercise_v towards_o our_o superior_n p._n d._n now_o i_o hope_v we_o have_v the_o cardinal_n true_a meaning_n from_o whence_o i_o desire_v you_o to_o observe_v 1._o that_o the_o difference_n he_o put_v between_o the_o worship_n of_o the_o image_n and_o the_o prototype_n lie_v in_o the_o inward_a estimation_n of_o the_o excellency_n of_o the_o one_o above_o the_o other_o which_o be_v as_o much_o as_o to_o say_v that_o he_o do_v real_o think_v there_o be_v more_o excellency_n in_o christ_n himself_o than_o in_o a_o crucifix_n which_o deserve_v a_o special_a remark_n especial_o be_v make_v by_o a_o cardinal_n when_o one_o may_v venture_v to_o say_v that_o there_o be_v scarce_o a_o idolater_n so_o sottish_a in_o the_o world_n but_o will_v acknowledge_v his_o deity_n to_o be_v much_o better_a than_o the_o image_n of_o he_o and_o that_o he_o worship_v one_o for_o his_o own_o excellency_n and_o the_o other_o only_o out_o of_o respect_n to_o he_o 2._o he_o acknowledge_v that_o all_o those_o act_n whereby_o we_o express_v reverence_n towards_o superior_n may_v be_v use_v towards_o image_n as_o bow_v kneeling_z prostration_n etc._n etc._n 3._o that_o there_o be_v some_o kind_n of_o inward_a affection_n which_o may_v be_v call_v a_o certain_a kind_n of_o affection_n of_o submission_n go_v along_o with_o these_o external_a acts._n and_o do_v not_o all_o this_o amount_v to_o true_a and_o real_a worship_n which_o be_v the_o thing_n dr._n st._n design_v to_o prove_v for_o here_o without_o exception_n all_o those_o act_n whereby_o our_o reverence_n towards_o superior_n be_v express_v may_v be_v use_v to_o image_n i_o e._n all_o token_n of_o submission_n to_o they_o and_o a_o inward_a affection_n of_o some_o kind_n which_o may_v be_v call_v affection_n of_o submission_n by_o which_o we_o find_v it_o yield_v to_o we_o that_o all_o external_a act_n of_o adoration_n may_v be_v give_v to_o image_n provide_v that_o the_o inward_a affection_n be_v carry_v after_o a_o different_a manner_n to_o the_o prototype_n and_o to_o the_o image_n which_o no_o idolater_n in_o the_o world_n if_o maimonides_n may_v be_v believe_v will_v ever_o deny_v if_o they_o believe_v any_o other_o god_n beside_o their_o idol_n as_o he_o say_v there_o be_v none_o but_o do_v so_o that_o card._n lugo_n upon_o fair_a ground_n give_v up_o all_o peculiarity_n of_o any_o external_a act_n of_o divine_a worship_n and_o for_o all_o that_o i_o can_v see_v may_v sacrifice_v to_o a_o image_n or_o offer_v up_o the_o host_n to_o it_o on_o the_o same_o reason_n that_o they_o make_v their_o prostration_n before_o it_o and_o he_o understand_v the_o consequence_n of_o his_o own_o doctrine_n so_o well_o that_o he_o do_v not_o seem_v to_o boggle_v at_o it_o on_o the_o account_n of_o adoration_n but_o as_o long_o as_o t._n g._n yield_v that_o cardinal_n lugo_n do_v allow_v all_o external_a act_n of_o submission_n to_o image_n and_o such_o a_o inward_a affection_n as_o to_o make_v that_o submission_n sincere_a and_o real_a dr._n st._n have_v all_o which_o his_o heart_n can_v desire_v from_o this_o testimony_n of_o lugo_n r._n p._n but_o all_o this_o amount_n to_o no_o more_o t._n g._n say_v from_o he_o but_o that_o the_o prototype_n deserve_v to_o be_v treat_v honourable_o not_o only_o in_o itself_o but_o in_o all_o thing_n which_o have_v connexion_n with_o it_o as_o a_o image_n or_o the_o like_a p._n d._n that_o be_v god_n may_v be_v worship_v in_o any_o creature_n and_o any_o act_n of_o adoration_n may_v be_v perform_v towards_o it_o if_o it_o have_v a_o respect_n to_o he_o whether_o by_o a_o real_a or_o imaginary_a presence_n which_o take_v away_o the_o distinction_n of_o divine_a worship_n as_o
although_o therefore_o the_o heathen_n do_v own_o and_o worship_v many_o god_n yet_o they_o look_v on_o they_o as_o inferior_a and_o subordinate_a to_o the_o supreme_a and_o only_o employ_v by_o he_o in_o the_o administration_n of_o thing_n under_o he_o and_o as_o for_o the_o partner_n you_o mention_v they_o be_v not_o such_o quoad_fw-la plenitudinem_fw-la potestatis_fw-la but_o only_o make_v use_n of_o in_o their_o particular_a office_n you_o know_v the_o distinction_n and_o it_o serve_v better_a here_o than_o in_o the_o court_n of_o rome_n but_o i_o can_v but_o wonder_n when_o t._n g._n have_v upbraid_v dr._n st._n for_o two_o page_n together_o with_o his_o father_n livy_n father_n varro_n 317._o father_n cicero_n father_n seneca_n father_n virgil_n etc._n etc._n he_o shall_v at_o last_o sink_v so_o low_a as_o to_o quote_v father_n t._n g._n in_o his_o roman_a antiquity_n against_o he_o sure_o any_o one_o of_o those_o father_n in_o a_o matter_n of_o roman_a antiquity_n will_v weigh_v down_o a_o hundred_o father_n t._n g.'s_n and_o yet_o even_o this_o testimony_n do_v not_o prove_v that_o the_o god_n that_o be_v suppose_v to_o be_v in_o heaven_n by_o their_o own_o right_n be_v supreme_a and_o independent_a deity_n but_o the_o dij_fw-la consentes_n be_v of_o a_o high_a rank_n than_o the_o semidei_fw-la or_o indigite_n the_o one_o have_v be_v always_o in_o heaven_n according_a to_o the_o platonist_n supposition_n the_o other_o be_v assume_v from_o among_o man_n which_o come_v at_o last_o to_o the_o distinction_n of_o angel_n and_o saint_n 2._o how_o far_o your_o opinion_n and_o practice_n do_v differ_v from_o they_o and_o here_o i_o pray_v remember_v that_o i_o go_v not_o about_o to_o compare_v the_o heathen_a god_n with_o angel_n and_o saint_n as_o to_o their_o excellency_n for_o the_o apostle_n tell_v we_o however_o the_o gentile_n intend_v it_o they_o do_v real_o sacrifice_v to_o devil_n and_o not_o to_o god_n but_o i_o be_o only_a to_o compare_v the_o heathen_n notion_n of_o worship_n and_o you_o together_o and_o if_o you_o do_v allow_v god_n by_o participation_n viz._n spirit_n assume_v into_o such_o a_o share_n of_o government_n as_o to_o have_v the_o care_n of_o some_o thing_n and_o place_n commit_v to_o some_o more_o than_o to_o other_o and_o if_o address_n and_o supplication_n be_v allow_v to_o be_v make_v to_o they_o on_o that_o account_n i_o desire_v to_o know_v how_o the_o heathen_n be_v just_o charge_v with_o idolatry_n and_o you_o not_o be_v it_o idolatry_n to_o pray_v to_o diana_n as_o a_o inferior_a deity_n which_o preside_v over_o hunt_v and_o be_v it_o none_o to_o pray_v to_o s._n hubert_n on_o the_o like_a account_n be_v it_o idolatry_n to_o pray_v to_o vesta_n to_o preserve_v from_o the_o fire_n and_o be_v it_o none_o to_o pray_v to_o s._n agatha_n if_o two_o person_n in_o the_o same_o storm_n pray_v as_o to_o their_o tutelar_a deity_n the_o one_o to_o neptune_n the_o other_o to_o s._n paul_n be_v the_o one_o guilty_a of_o idolatry_n and_o the_o other_o not_o if_o two_o woman_n in_o travail_n pray_v for_o help_n the_o one_o to_o lucina_n the_o other_o to_o the_o b._n virgin_n be_v the_o first_o only_o guilty_a of_o idolatry_n they_o may_v be_v accuse_v of_o ignorance_n and_o folly_n in_o make_v a_o bad_a choice_n but_o i_o do_v not_o see_v how_o the_o heathen_n can_v be_v charge_v with_o idolatry_n and_o not_o the_o other_o when_o saint_n be_v canonize_v to_o be_v particular_a patron_n of_o place_n as_o s._n rosa_n late_o for_o peru_n why_o may_v not_o the_o inhabitant_n make_v particular_a address_n to_o she_o as_o their_o patroness_n and_o tutelar_a deity_n as_o lipsius_n do_v to_o the_o b._n virgin_n be_v not_o this_o to_o make_v such_o a_o saint_n a_o sharer_n in_o the_o government_n of_o the_o world_n as_o much_o as_o the_o heathen_n do_v their_o tutelar_a god_n under_o one_o supreme_a and_o therefore_o upon_o t._n g.'s_n own_o ground_n you_o be_v as_o just_o charge_v with_o idolatry_n as_o the_o heathen_n be_v for_o the_o heathen_n do_v not_o look_v on_o their_o tutelar_a god_n as_o the_o original_a giver_n but_o as_o the_o subordinate_a minister_n r._n p._n but_o as_o t._n g._n say_v we_o do_v not_o pray_v to_o they_o to_o obtain_v the_o thing_n we_o desire_v but_o that_o they_o will_v be_v our_o intercessor_n with_o god_n for_o we_o p._n d._n i_o wonder_v t._n g._n will_v say_v this_o again_o without_o answer_v what_o dr._n st._n have_v say_v in_o his_o late_a defence_n to_o show_v 1._o that_o the_o very_a word_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n do_v allow_v more_o than_o bare_a intercession_n etc._n 2._o that_o formal_a prayer_n to_o they_o to_o bestow_v blessing_n be_v allow_v and_o practise_v among_o they_o of_o which_o he_o produce_v several_a instance_n of_o present_a use_n in_o the_o approve_a book_n of_o devotion_n etc._n 3._o that_o such_o prayer_n do_v not_o contradict_v any_o receive_a doctrine_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o he_o challenge_v t._n g._n to_o show_v 300._o what_o article_n of_o your_o creed_n what_o decree_n of_o your_o church_n what_o doctrine_n of_o your_o divine_n it_o do_v contradict_v for_o any_o man_n to_o pray_v direct_o to_o the_o virgin_n mary_n for_o the_o destruction_n of_o heresy_n support_v under_o trouble_n grace_n to_o withstand_v temptation_n and_o reception_n to_o glory_n and_o what_o can_v we_o beg_v for_o more_o from_o god_n himself_o but_o i_o do_v not_o yet_o understand_v how_o you_o can_v charge_v those_o heathen_n with_o idolatry_n who_o own_v a_o supreme_a god_n and_o worship_v inferior_a deity_n as_o subordinate_a to_o they_o and_o their_o image_n but_o the_o charge_n will_v return_v upon_o yourselves_o r._n p._n will_v you_o never_o be_v satisfy_v do_v not_o t._n g._n say_v they_o be_v just_o charge_v with_o it_o on_o two_o account_n 1._o because_o those_o image_n be_v institute_v by_o public_a authority_n for_o the_o worship_n of_o false_a god_n 437._o and_o they_o concur_v with_o the_o vulgar_a in_o all_o the_o external_a practice_n of_o their_o idolatry_n 2._o because_o though_o in_o their_o school_n they_o deny_v they_o to_o be_v god_n yet_o they_o give_v divine_a honour_n to_o they_o as_o the_o people_n do_v p._n d._n you_o must_v excuse_v i_o sir_n i_o have_v such_o a_o imperfection_n in_o my_o understanding_n that_o it_o will_v not_o be_v satisfy_v without_o the_o appearance_n at_o least_o of_o reason_n which_o i_o confess_v i_o can_v yet_o see_v in_o this_o answer_n for_o i_o pray_v how_o come_v it_o to_o be_v idolatry_n in_o they_o who_o give_v only_o a_o inferior_a and_o relative_a worship_n if_o that_o worship_n be_v not_o idolatry_n r._n p._n t._n g._n say_v they_o be_v not_o guilty_a of_o internal_a idolatry_n 438._o but_o of_o external_a comply_v with_o the_o vulgar_a who_o do_v worship_v they_o as_o true_o and_o proper_o god_n and_o that_o in_o such_o a_o manner_n that_o they_o be_v judge_v to_o do_v the_o same_o thing_n and_o therefore_o it_o be_v at_o least_o a_o exterior_a profession_n of_o idolatry_n in_o they_o p._n d._n but_o you_o have_v not_o yet_o prove_v that_o the_o gentile_n do_v worship_v many_o independent_a god_n and_o i_o have_v very_o late_o show_v the_o contrary_a from_o the_o express_a testimony_n of_o the_o father_n and_o therefore_o this_o answer_n do_v not_o reach_v to_o the_o case_n yet_o suppose_v that_o against_o the_o general_a sense_n of_o understand_a man_n the_o common_a people_n shall_v take_v the_o inferior_a god_n for_o independent_a and_o absolute_a deity_n be_v not_o this_o the_o case_n of_o your_o own_o church_n as_o dr._n st._n observe_v the_o common_a people_n take_v their_o image_n for_o god_n or_o take_v the_o b._n virgin_n for_o the_o queen_n of_o heaven_n and_o pray_v to_o they_o according_o which_o be_v both_o internal_a and_o external_a idolatry_n in_o they_o however_o t._n g._n and_o their_o learned_a man_n comply_v with_o they_o in_o all_o their_o external_a act_n of_o worship_n be_v they_o guilty_a of_o the_o exterior_a profession_n of_o idolatry_n or_o not_o r._n p._n i_o think_v where_o you_o will_v be_v but_o be_v it_o the_o same_o case_n of_o some_o few_o man_n comply_v with_o a_o common_a and_o public_a custom_n of_o idolatrous_a worship_n 441._o and_o of_o those_o who_o follow_v the_o public_a profession_n and_o do_v the_o same_o act_n with_o some_o private_a man_n who_o turn_v they_o to_o idolatrous_a worship_n p._n d._n but_o if_o the_o public_a profession_n of_o the_o gentile_n be_v to_o worship_v one_o supreme_a god_n as_o i_o have_v already_o prove_v than_o the_o case_n be_v the_o very_a same_o as_o to_o the_o profession_n and_o practice_n of_o idolatry_n 444._o which_o be_v the_o main_a thing_n insist_v on_o and_o the_o show_v of_o many_o other_o