being just a Year from the time he went down to the Mines Ld. A. I thought he had proposed it much sooner I am sure I have heard some Persons say so Merch. I remember that an eminent Counsel being charged with giving an Opinion that did not hold good in Westminster-Hall asked the Gentleman where he gave such an Opinion for he did not remember it nor could he find his Name in his Book of Fees No says the Gentleman but if you remember Sir I met you on the Road between Worcester and London and put this Case to you That might be indeed says the Lawyer had you no more wit than to try your Cause upon a Travelling Opinion So I doubt this might be a sudden Opinion from Mr. Waller He is a Sanguine Man and such Men are apt to believe what they mightily wish for and yet I fancy he never gave such an Opinion but with his usual Precaution in case the Rocks under Ground did not prove harder than they were at that time But since they did and to such a degree of hardness that whereas the Miners then made good Wages upon a Bargain of Thirty shillings a Fathom they can now scarce make their Wages at Six pounds a Fathom I think we should be as hard upon him as the Rocks are if we should tye him up to more than he deliberately proposed in his Essay Ld. B. Truly I think so too and he does very fairly if he keeps that Time for I seldom knew a Master-builder that promised to build a House in a Year ever finish it under two some unlucky Accident or other frequently falls out beyond Expectation to delay the Work though at last he may finish a very stately Pile of Building and give very good Content Merch. Your Lordship observes very well But in this Case we have reason to believe Mr. Waller will use his utmost Endeavours because his Salary is to arise out of the Profits of the Mines And I find by his Letters he has a good heart still he tells the Committee That if they 'l have a little patience he doubts not but to shew them Welsh Potozi more glorious than they expect or he ever promised Ld. A. Considering all Circumstances how deeply he adventures himself and how he still stands his ground I must confess I can't but think he believes he shall make a great Thing of it but yet I perceive many Persons do not fancy those high Expressions I think his Forty pounds a year for every Share did him no great kindness Merch. That Matter has indeed been the most exposed by our Adversaries about Town of any thing for many Persons taking things upon common Fame without reading over the Essay and Proposals at large really thought that the Adventurers were to have Forty pounds per Annum for every Share presently without any more ado whereas Mr. Waller did only write an Essay on the value of the Mines not a positive Valuation and there offers to the old Partners with all due submission to better Judgment his Opinion thereof together with his Reasons at large for the same that they might themselves Judge of the Validity of them by all which he does indeed seem to demonstrate to my poor Capacity that in time with a large Stock and good Management the Mines may be brought to an extraordinary great value and then it 's observed that at the highest valuation every Share will be worth Forty pounds per Annum But Mr. Waller positively declares in the very Entrance of his Essay pag. 6. That he expected one year to put the Works in order and even then though a considerable Profit might be made yet he did not pretend under some years more to bring the Works to the highest valuation that is to Forty pounds a year for every Share But what he means by some years I cannot tell nor I believe he can but guess himself for all that depends on Accidents under Ground and on the Management by the Partners But here is nothing that could lead any rational Person that read this Book into an Expectation of having Forty pounds a year presently Ld. A. No certainly But is there nothing in the other Proposals that could lead the World into this mistake Merch. No my Lord it is so far from that that all those Papers even the printed Lists at the Drawing where the Publishers that agreed with the Clerks for the Copy put it in to make the Lists sell the better for their own Profit all refer to the said Essay and although Mr. Waller's Valuation was very proper to be taken notice of upon such an Occasion yet the value of the Mines in all the Proposals of the Mine-Adventure is expresly set at less than a fourteenth part of Mr. Waller 's Calculation which perhaps is as much too little as the other is thought too great Ld. B. That was very cautiously done indeed and sufficient to prevent such a Mistake but if Persons will buy an Estate and never look over the Writings 't is their own fault if they expect more than they ought But pray Sir will nothing less than Forty pounds a year presently for every Share serve their turn How much is that per Cent. profit Merch. Forty pounds a year at Ten years Purchase for a Lease of One and twenty years is worth Four hundred pounds and I think a Share was valued at that time at Twenty pounds or thereabouts and at that rate the gain from every Share must have been Two thousand pounds for every hundred pounds adventured Ld. A. A very modest and reasonable expectation especially for such Persons who were to run no hazard in the Adventure for even the Unfortunate it seems were to be repaid their Principal Money adventured with Interest at Six pounds per Cent. Merch. They were so But I don't find that any of the Adventurers did expect such a present Profit but our Adversaries abroad have raised this Notion on purpose to make themselves merry and ridicule this Undertaking Ld. B. I remember a great General when he was told that the conquered Party made very severe Songs upon him instead of being in a Passion replied with Contempt Fye don't take notice of it you must give the poor Rogues leave to be merry So since you are satisfied you have got the advantage of being concerned in a good Mine let those that envy your Happiness be as merry as they please Ld. A. But pray Sir let us come to the Merit of the Cause what Profit do you believe may probably be made by this Undertaking I see you fully understand it and I shall very much depend on your Judgment Merch. My Lord it behoves a Man to be very cautious in giving his Opinion in this Case I can judge for my self but am not willing to engage another upon my Judgment your Lordship sees I have ventured my Money and that is the best proof of any Man 's good Opinion Ld. A. I
Lord there is good and bad of all Professions Ranks and Qualities of Men whatsoever the Gentleman that drew this I believe does not pretend to any Merit or Experience in these Affairs But this I may observe of him that 't is not likely he would have taken so much pains about a Constitution and Method of Management if he had not at that time entertain'd a very good Opinion of the Mines Ld. A. Truly what you say is another very great Argument of the Sincerity of the Underaker But pray Sir how are the Mines managed in the Country Merch. By a Grove Steward and a Pay Steward Ld. A. What is the Office of a Grove Steward Merch. The Grove Steward is the Steward of the Mines and is to govern and direct the Miners and Workmen set them Bargains take care that the Mines are regularly worked and effectually carried on to the best advantage to see the Our weigh'd out to the Cartiers and to grant Warrants to the Pay-Steward for the Payment of the Mines according to their respective Bargains Ld. A. What is the manner or way of setting Bargains is it done in publick or private Merch. In publick As for instance when the Steward of the Mines has a Bargain to set out he comes into the Field and there openly and publickly proclaims and proposes to the Miners the taking of such a Bargain and he or they that comes to the lowest Rate have the Bargain granted to them Ld. A. This is extraordinary fair for then the Rate of all Bargains are known to a hundred Persons or more But do you never employ any Man at days wages Merch. Seldom or never it 's better set any Bargain then employ Men under ground at Day-wages Ld. A. You had need then to have a very skilful Steward in so great a work or else a Thousand pounds a year may be quickly lost for want of setting good Bargains Merch. It may so we have had an Instance of that in the Old Partners time where Mr. Waller set a Bargain at Thirty shillings a Fathom and afterwards another Person being employed on a Trial in Mr. Waller's Place what do you think he paid a Fathom in the same Drift with a new Set of famous Miners not to be parallel'd in the whole Kingdom Ld. A. I can't tell it may be Three pounds a Fathom Merch. Be pleased to guess again it is almost incredible Ld. A. Six or Seven pounds a Fathom Merch. Above Ten pounds a Fathom it appears by the Accounts of their Work Ld. A. 'T is no wonder then that some Men are ruined and others get Estates by the same Mines but how does Mr. Waller do to set a good Bargain in a new Work Merch. He is a Man of great Experience and can give a very great guess at all sorts of Work but however he does not trust to that but he takes a lusty willing Fellow and sets him on for a day and stays by him and comforts him with a Pipe of Tobacco and a Dram of the Bottle and by this days Labor he can calculate what that Work is worth and so sets the Bargain accordingly Ld. A. That is a very good way but is he not over-reach'd sometimes in his Bargains Merch. Yes he is he can't be infallible under ground but yet for one Bargain the Miners get an advantage over him he gets the better of them in Ten and we are forced to consider them in some cases when they work very hard and are not able to make their Wages nor scarce get Subsistance Ld. A. Most Men when they take a Bargain work so hard for themselves that they expect to get double Wages and it is hard if he will not let them get single Wages Merch. My Lord as he is saving for the Partners so he endeavours to do right to the poor Miners for he sets them Bargains for a short time and if they are too hard upon the Miners he advances in the next Bargain but if too easie he makes them abate so that in the main he contrives that they shall get good Wages but they shall be sure to work hard for it Ld. A. That 's very well done But do the Miners never combine against him to raise a Bargain Merch. Never of late they did once Rebel against him but being a Man of good Courage and Conduct he broke the Confederacy cashier'd the Leaders and has been an absolute Commander ever since the Miners both love him and fear him Ld. A. That 's the way to govern such sort of People Well I see you are very happy in a good Steward but what will you do if he should die Merch. There is another Gentleman in the World that understands a little of this matter and is deeply concerned to look after it However there is care taken to breed up skilful Men to succeed him Ld. A. That is very prudently done But how often do you make a pay Merch. We pay Subsistance Money every Week and make a clear Pay every six Weeks Ld. A. Very well And what is the Office of the Pay Steward Merch. The Pay Steward is our Cashier receives all the Money sent down for the use of the Mines and pays the Miners their Wages according to their Bargains keeps all the Accounts in good order of Wast-Book Journal and Ledger and produces the Warrants from Mr. Waller as Vouchers for every Payment he also looks after our Stores as Coal Iron Timber c. and gives an exact account thereof and takes care of the carriage of our Oar to the Water side and for the faithful discharge of his Trust he has also given us good Security Ld. A. Certainly nothing in the World can be better managed But what Salaries do you give these Officers Merch. I have given an Account of Mr. Waller's Salary before and as to the Pay Steward he has no more than Fifty pounds per Annum for him and his Assistant Ld. A. That is very moderate but how is the Smelting and Refining managed Merch. Our Smelting and Refining is all done with Pit-coal which is much cheaper than Wood or Charcoal Ld. A. Have you Coal in that Country Merch. No my Lord the nearest place is Neath or Swanzey in Glamorg anshire and therefore it was contrived to save charges in Freight that the same Vessels which bring Coal to Oar to be smelted in Cardiganshire shall carry back Oar to Coal to be smelted at Neath and this is established by the Settlement of the Mine-Adventure Ld. A. That was well contrived but whether is it more advantagious to Sir H. M. to have the Oar smelted at Neath or in Cardiganshire Merch. I suppose 't is indifferent to him but only in one respect it would be more advantagious for him to have all the Oar smelted in Cardiganshire then at Neath for the Partners being obliged to take his Coal at the Market price he can carry it much cheaper to the Water-side to be shipt
Engines are chargeable and a Level when made carries off the Water without any Charge at all Ld. B. Pray Sir What do you mean by a Level Merch. My Lord a Level is called in some places an Adit in others a Sough or Drain and may be compared to a Common-Shore carried on from the bottom of the Hill at a dead Level under ground to the further end of it to Drain off all the Water from the Mines as they work them without the help of any Water-Engine or any further charge Ld. A. That is very fine indeed How deep is your Level from the Surface of the Ground Merch. In some places more in some places less according to the rise and fall of the Ground but in the deepest place it is Sixty four yards or thereabouts Ld. B. That is a Noble Level to drain Sixty four yards in Oar from the Surface But How will you sink a Pit or Shaft down to such a deepness to let off the Water Merch. My Lord the Miners work from the bottom of the Hill or Level on several Stages or Stelches one above another till they come near the Surface and so meet the Shaft that is siinkng downwards But there are many Shafts in other places sunk down above a Hundred yards deep and in Hungary above Three hundred yards as Brown in his Travels to the Mine-Towns in Hungary informs us when he says That at the Mine of Chremnits he went down by the Pit called by the Name of the Emperor Rodolphus's Shaft gently descending by the turning about of a large Wheel to which the Cable is fastned a Hundred and eight Fathoms deep into the Earth and after many hours being in the Mine was drawn out again by the Emperor Leopold's Shaft streight up above Three hundred yards a height surpassing that of the Pyramids above a third part Ld. A. But their Works perhaps are not so much troubled with Water as yours are Merch. They may not my Lord but our Method is very easie For when we have sunk down as deep as we conveniently can for Water we bore a Hole through the Rock quite down to the Level and so let off all the Water in the Common-shore Ld. B. That 's an excellent way indeed but pray Sir how can you bore through hard Rocks Merch. My Lord we have sharp Chizels skrew'd to Iron-rods of about Four foot long which are also skrew'd together to what length you please with which we pounce the Rock into a Powder and by continually turning about we keep the Hole round and with the working of the Water and motion of the Iron-rod the Rock or Stone thus beat to dust will in great measure rise up to the top of the Ground and work out of it self but when the Hole begins to be choaked we take up the Rods unskrew the Chizel and skrew on a Borier with which we cleanse the Hole and then put down the Chizel again and by this means we can bore a Yard in a Day in a very hard Rock Ld. A. This is a very fine Invention you 'l make us perfect Miners But pray Sir give me leave to ask you Whether it would not be worth your while to use some Water-Engine in the mean time till your Levels can be brought home Merch. If the Committee did believe that it would be long before those Levels could be brought home to the Veins I doubt not but they would make use of some Water-Engine but the Reason which sweyed with them to defer the use of such Engines a little longer was this as I am informed Their Shaft sunk down in the great Vein which is now fall'n in was about Twenty nine or Thirty yards deep and having carried on the Work in a Drift under Ground about Ten yards or more near to a Bogg the Water thereof and the small Stream which runs through the same came in so fast into this Drift that they were not able to withstand it without a very great Charge and they are of Opinion that it will require several Engines to draw off so great a quantity of Water the Charges whereof and of placing the same under Ground and of sinking more Shafts for that purpose and repairing the old Shafts and Drifts and the Wages of Men to work the Engines will by the Computation of what has been done and actually practised in other Mines amount to a very considerable Sum of Money when perhaps by that time these Engines shall be made the Shafts sunk and made fit to receive them the Engines carried down and placed to Work the great Levels Adits or Soughs may be carried home to the several Veins and thereby the Water drained off without any Charge and no farther use made of all those expenceful Engines And therefore though such Engines are necessary and very advantagious to all Works that have not this great advantage of Ground as we have to make a Level to drain off the Water Yet in our particular Case the Committee did conceive that it would not be very acceptable to the General Meeting that they should expend out of the Trading-stock any considerable Sum on that account or at least that an Affair of this Nature did require farther consideration Ld. A. The Committee do well to be saving of the Stock But pray Sir why could not the Committee raise Oar in the Levels and also with the help of these Engines at the same time to pay all these Charges Merch. Because I doubt the Partners would not be pleased to pay Forty shillings a Tun or some other great price for raising Oar with Engines when they will be able to raise Oar enough in the Levels for Five or Six shillings per Tun. Ld. B. That 's a good Reason indeed and I am glad this Objection was thought off because many Persons argued from hence That this great Vein was only a Belly of Oar and worked out for otherwise say they the Partners might presently raise Oar with the help of an Engine but you have fully satisfied me in that matter Merch. That Objection has been formerly answered A Belly of Oar being Ten Twenty or Thirty but none above Fifty yards in length but this Vein has been found for several Hundred yards and all the parallel Veins in this Mountain shew this to be a mistake But my Lord the Committee who are in great Expectation of coming up shortly with their Levels to this great Vein do yet intend if any Accident should happen to delay them beyond the Time proposed to make use of a Water-Engine which will immediately demonstrate this to be a settled Vein Ld. A. Pray Sir what is the longest Time proposed to carry the Level home to the great Vein Merch. Mr. Waller the Steward in his Essay on the value of the Mines proposes to have a Years time to set the Works in order and carry up the Levels to Oar in the respective Veins which expires the latter end of May next
Veins of Oar are better with them than without them for they preserve the Mineral Feeder and thereby enrich the Oar and I am very willing your Lordship shall make what Allowances you please for these Obstructions without giving any further Answer Ld. B. Nay Sir pray let us hear all that can be said on both sides Merch. If your Lordship will promise that no ill use shall be made of it I will declare what I think of this Objection Ld. B. I 'le promise you Sir it shall not Merch. Then my Lord I must confess I have made liberal Allowances for all these Accidents already for when your Lordship considers that a Tun of Oar lyes in the compass of two Foot square or thereabouts and that two Men in blasting upwards with Gun-powder will raise more Oar than six Men in working downwards with Gad and Sledge your Lordship will not think it improbable for two Men in one of these large Veins to raise a Tun of Oar in a day whereas I have supposed that they will raise but one Tun of Oar in a Week Ld. B. If a Tun of Oar lyes in so little a compass and your Works are once brought into such an Order that you can work upwards from the Level certainly one Blast of Gun-powder will bring down more than a Tun of Oar. Merch. It will either bring it down or so crack the Load of Oar that with Iron Bars two Men will presently pull down a Tun of Oar. Ld. B. And then I presume the Miners can make a Blast in a Night and a Day that is in Twenty four hours Merch. Yes my Lord in five or six hours if no extraordinary Accidents happen to delay them Ld. A. Hey day Why at this rate you will raise more Oar in one Year then you can Smelt in two or three Merch. So some Persons think my Lord But I doubt not but we shall be able from time to time to build Furnaces sufficient to answer our Occasions Ld. B. But stay Sir if you can raise Oar at this rate I doubt your Mines will hardly hold out to the end of your Term. Merch. My Lord a great Heap of Oar above Ground lyes in a little room below The Steward who has experienced how much Oar he has raised in a Yard square has computed at his highest Valuation that the Mines can't be exhausted during our Term to the deepness of our Level which your Lordship will the easier believe when you consider that the Mine of Chermnitz in Hungary has lasted Nine hundred and fifty years and that the Mine of Potozi not above Six foot wide in any place has lasted from the Year 1546. which is about One hundred fifty three years with Twenty thousand Men at work And Zenophon upon the Silver Mines of Athens tells us That as they dug on they still discovered fresh Veins and though their Mines had been wrought for many Ages with great numbers of Hands yet they continued still so far from being drained or exhausted that they could discover no visible difference in their then present state of the Mines from the Account their Ancestors had delivered down to them and when they had most Labourers at work at the Mines they found they had still Business for more Hands then were employed And Mr. Waller acquaints us That all great Veins of this kind are in some respects like a great large spreading Oak and hath a great number of Branches which like Boughs of a Tree shoot forth from the Body of the Vein insomuch that after a considerable Sum of Money shall be gained out of the same and many Years spent in the working thereof there will be still discovered fresh Veins shooting forth from the sides thereof which are innumerable and scarce ever to be exhausted Ld. B. But let us suppose however that the Mines may be worked out to the bottom or sole of the Level what will you do then Merch. My Lord we must then place a Water-Engine with a Wheel in the great Level and turn the Water-course that runs through the Bogg in Troughs down one of the Shafts upon the Wheel and so by that means drawing off the Water from the Mines we shall raise the Oar Forty yards deeper than the Level or else we may use Captain Savory's Fire-Engine for that purpose which we find best Ld. A. Now you say something then indeed if you can raise Oar so much deeper than the Level I believe there will be no want of Oar for Forty yards in Oar for Twelve hundred yards in length in so many Veins will be a vast Addition Pray Sir cast it up in the great Vein Merch. I will my Lord. Let me consider If a solid of two foot square in Oar will yield one Tun how many Tuns will a Vein Twelve hundred yards in length Two yards in breadth and Forty yards in depth yield Answer Three hundred twenty four thousand Tun which being valued at Five pounds per Tun amounts to One million six hundred and twenty thousand pounds Is not this a fair Profit from the Oar below the Levels But I will abate One hundred and twenty thousand pounds for Twitches and Faults in the Vein though there is not usually so many at that deepness as near the Surface and I have supposed the Vein but Six foot wide though we have had it already Seven foot six inches and in all probability will be much broader at that deepness Ld. A. If you can raise so much below what vast quantities may be raised above the Levels which in some places is Sixty four yards deep from the Surface Ld. B. Nay but if one Vein will yield so much what will all the Veins yield Merch. I hope they will yield sufficient to satisfie your Lordship that the Veins will not be exhausted during the present Lease Ld. A. I think you have given us a very plain demonstration of that but what will you do when your Term is expired Dr. Pray my Lord let us make the most of what we have I am not much concerned to look so far before me if I can have such a profitable Bargain for One and twenty years I do not care who has it after me Ld. A. But I love to look as far as I can that my Posterity may see that I had some respect for them as well as for my self therefore I shall be glad to hear what is likely to be the Issue of this Business Merch. I 'le acquaint your Lordship what I suppose will be the Issue of it As soon as our Works are brought to perfection and we are reimbursed our Principal Money adventured or that we are all encouraged with the Success of this and satisfied that we stand upon sure ground we shall take care either to renew our present Lease or take other Mines at a reasonable Duty or we shall do both as we see best Ld. B. Then you don't intend to give over the Mining Trade at the