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we_o will_v demand_v at_o his_o hand_n we_o call_v upon_o christ_n for_o salvation_n and_o therefore_o must_v we_o first_o believe_v he_o to_o be_v a_o saviour_n we_o call_v upon_o saint_n to_o pray_v for_o we_o therefore_o must_v we_o before_o hand_n believe_v that_o they_o both_o can_v and_o will_v pray_v for_o we_o and_o that_o they_o be_v able_a through_o the_o favour_n and_o love_n that_o god_n bear_v they_o to_o entreat_v much_o at_o god_n hand_n see_v how_o we_o must_v believe_v in_o they_o upon_o who_o we_o call_v for_o help_v and_o the_o very_a phrase_n of_o believe_v in_o saint_n be_v use_v by_o the_o same_o 5._o same_o ad_fw-la philemon_n v._o 5._o apostle_n not_o unlike_o that_o of_o the_o old_a testament_n 31._o testament_n exod._n 14_o vers_fw-la 31._o the_o people_n believe_v god_n and_o his_o servant_n moses_n m._n perkins_n go_v on_o patch_v up_o his_o former_a argument_n with_o that_o which_o have_v small_a coherence_n with_o it_o to_o wit_n that_o we_o have_v no_o promise_n to_o be_v hear_v but_o for_o christ_n sake_n admit_v it_o be_v so_o it_o make_v nothing_o against_o prayer_n to_o saint_n for_o they_o pray_v for_o we_o in_o christ_n name_n and_o be_v hear_v for_o christ_n sake_n final_o m._n perkins_n fable_v that_o we_o give_v for_o our_o only_a warrant_n of_o invocation_n of_o saint_n miracle_n and_o revelation_n and_o thereunto_o answer_v that_o to_o judge_v of_o any_o point_n of_o doctrine_n by_o miracle_n three_o thing_n must_v concur_v first_o the_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n and_o piety_n to_o be_v confirm_v second_o prayer_n to_o god_n that_o some_o thing_n may_v be_v do_v for_o the_o ratify_n of_o the_o say_a doctrine_n three_o the_o manifest_a edification_n of_o the_o church_n by_o the_o two_o former_a what_o of_o all_o this_o good_a sir_n marry_o think_v what_o you_o will_v for_o he_o infer_v nothing_o i_o will_v therefore_o apply_v all_o this_o to_o the_o purpose_n and_o say_v first_o that_o when_o a_o miracle_n be_v grant_v by_o god_n to_o confirm_v any_o point_n of_o doctrine_n in_o controversy_n than_o every_o man_n be_v as_o well_o bind_v to_o believe_v that_o point_n of_o doctrine_n as_o if_o it_o be_v plain_o record_v in_o the_o holy_a scripture_n for_o it_o have_v god_n to_o witness_v who_o can_v deceive_v second_o that_o s._n bernard_n a_o most_o godly_a man_n and_o one_o who_o testimony_n m._n per._n do_v very_o often_o allege_v do_v fulfil_v all_o those_o three_o worthy_a observation_n of_o m._n per._n in_o work_v of_o miracle_n to_o confirm_v invocation_n of_o saint_n and_o therefore_o it_o be_v to_o be_v believe_v of_o all_o man_n even_o by_o m._n perkins_n own_o sentence_n for_o first_o he_o propound_v invocation_n of_o saint_n 5._o lib._n 3._o aquavitae_fw-la cap._n 5._o as_o a_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n and_o great_a piety_n in_o the_o province_n of_o tolouse_n in_o france_n where_o it_o be_v by_o our_o protestant_n grandsire_n the_o albigenses_n deny_v second_o he_o bless_v some_o certain_a loafe_n of_o bread_n that_o be_v present_v to_o he_o and_o pray_v to_o god_n that_o if_o invocation_n to_o saint_n be_v pure_a doctrine_n of_o faith_n that_o than_o whosoever_o shall_v taste_v of_o that_o bread_n may_v be_v cure_v of_o what_o disease_n soever_o he_o be_v sick_a a_o bishop_n that_o stand_v by_o add_v yea_o sir_n if_o they_o receive_v they_o with_o good_a faith_n they_o shall_v be_v heal_v s._n bernard_n reply_v i_o say_v not_o so_o but_o whosoever_o shall_v true_o taste_v of_o they_o shall_v be_v cure_v that_o they_o may_v know_v we_o to_o have_v the_o truth_n and_o to_o be_v the_o true_a messenger_n of_o god_n and_o as_o it_o there_o follow_v a_o huge_a multitude_n of_o sick_a and_o disease_a person_n taste_v of_o that_o bread_n recover_v perfect_a health_n if_o we_o have_v no_o other_o argument_n than_o this_o it_o alone_o be_v sufficient_a to_o persuade_v any_o christian_n that_o to_o pray_v unto_o saint_n be_v the_o true_a doctrine_n of_o christ_n which_o god_n so_o express_o will_v confirm_v by_o miracle_n and_o testify_v so_o evident_o what_o will_v he_o believe_v that_o will_v not_o believe_v this_o but_o say_v m._n per._n miracle_n be_v to_o be_v do_v for_o infidel_n and_o not_o for_o they_o who_o believe_v true_a it_o be_v and_o therefore_o be_v this_o miracle_n do_v to_o convert_v or_o to_o confound_v such_o infidel_n as_o our_o protestant_n be_v who_o will_v not_o believe_v the_o invocation_n of_o saint_n last_o say_v he_o our_o faith_n be_v not_o to_o be_v confirm_v by_o revelation_n 29._o luc._n 16._o vers_fw-la 29._o and_o apparition_n of_o dead_a man_n but_o by_o the_o writing_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o prophet_n what_o be_v this_o either_o to_o miracle_n or_o invocation_n of_o saint_n neither_o be_v that_o which_o he_o say_v to_o be_v draw_v out_o of_o those_o word_n of_o that_o parable_n as_o i_o will_v prove_v when_o it_o shall_v be_v need_n note_v by_o the_o way_n that_o twice_o in_o this_o question_n he_o himself_o cit_v that_o parable_n of_o dives_fw-la and_o lazarus_n for_o proof_n of_o doctrine_n which_o he_o afterward_o deny_v to_o be_v lawful_a for_o we_o to_o do_v what_o our_o other_o ground_n be_v for_o invocation_n of_o saint_n shall_v be_v declare_v in_o our_o argument_n follow_v m._n perkins_n five_o reason_n to_o pray_v to_o saint_n depart_v to_o bow_v the_o knee_n to_o they_o while_o they_o be_v in_o heaven_n be_v to_o asscribe_v unto_o they_o that_o which_o be_v proper_a to_o god_n namely_o to_o know_v the_o hart_n and_o inward_a desire_n thereof_o and_o to_o know_v the_o speech_n and_o behaviour_n of_o all_o man_n in_o all_o place_n on_o the_o earth_n at_o all_o time_n answer_n this_o man_n do_v too_o too_o broad_o enlarge_v his_o lie_n for_o neither_o do_v all_o man_n at_o once_o much_o less_o at_o all_o time_n pray_v unto_o every_o or_o any_o one_o of_o the_o saint_n but_o suppose_v they_o do_v yet_o to_o hear_v all_o their_o prayer_n together_o be_v nothing_o so_o much_o as_o to_o see_v that_o which_o every_o saint_n do_v see_v in_o heaven_n to_o wit_n the_o one_o only_a substance_n of_o god_n in_o three_o person_n for_o what_o be_v all_o the_o cogitation_n of_o man_n compare_v unto_o the_o immense_a and_o incomprehensible_a nature_n of_o god_n not_o so_o much_o as_o the_o point_n of_o a_o pin_n to_o the_o whole_a globe_n of_o the_o earth_n and_o yet_o every_o saint_n in_o heaven_n do_v clear_o behold_v god_n therefore_o much_o more_o able_a be_v they_o to_o hear_v and_o see_v all_o thing_n that_o belong_v unto_o man_n and_o as_o the_o learned_a divine_n know_v the_o manhood_n of_o our_o saviour_n christ_n do_v see_v know_v and_o comprehend_v all_o the_o deed_n word_n and_o thought_n of_o all_o man_n that_o have_v live_v since_o the_o begin_n of_o the_o world_n unto_o the_o end_n because_o it_o belong_v unto_o he_o who_o be_v judge_n of_o all_o to_o know_v all_o aswell_o to_o reward_v the_o good_a as_o to_o punish_v the_o evil_a and_o yet_o do_v no_o divine_a say_v that_o the_o manhood_n of_o christ_n be_v god_n or_o equal_a unto_o god_n in_o knowledge_n now_o the_o saint_n in_o heaven_n do_v not_o see_v the_o secret_n of_o our_o heart_n in_o our_o heart_n but_o be_v present_a to_o the_o face_n of_o god_n do_v behold_v in_o it_o as_o it_o be_v in_o a_o most_o clear_a glass_n all_o that_o be_v please_v the_o goodness_n of_o god_n to_o reveal_v unto_o they_o and_o it_o be_v incident_a and_o belong_v necessary_o unto_o their_o most_o happy_a estate_n to_o have_v grant_v to_o they_o all_o that_o in_o reason_n they_o can_v demand_n otherwise_o they_o be_v not_o so_o happy_a as_o they_o may_v be_v now_o what_o good_a nature_n will_v not_o be_v glad_a to_o pleasure_v his_o own_o fellow_n member_n and_o dear_a friend_n special_o such_o as_o crave_v so_o much_o at_o his_o hand_n wherefore_o it_o can_v be_v deny_v of_o any_o considerate_a man_n but_o that_o god_n who_o satisfi_v all_o their_o just_a request_n do_v ordinary_o reveal_v unto_o his_o dear_o belove_a saint_n all_o the_o prayer_n that_o be_v make_v unto_o they_o sure_o s._n augustine_n in_o most_o express_a term_n declare_v 16._o de_fw-fr cura_fw-la pro_fw-la mort_fw-fr cap._n 15._o &_o 16._o that_o god_n can_v give_v such_o power_n unto_o his_o saint_n and_o martyr_n that_o they_o may_v be_v present_a in_o spirit_n at_o every_o place_n throughout_o the_o world_n where_o there_o be_v any_o memory_n of_o they_o or_o prayer_n make_v unto_o they_o he_o will_v not_o take_v upon_o he_o to_o define_v whether_o they_o be_v actual_o there_o present_a or_o no_o or_o whether_o by_o the_o ministry_n of_o angel_n they_o be_v relieve_v that_o seek_v help_v by_o the_o intercession_n of_o martyr_n but_o make_v no_o