Selected quad for the lemma: ground_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
ground_n	faith_n	rule_n	scripture_n	4,181	5	6.7162	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A77722	The faith of the Catholick church, concerning the Eucharist Invincibly proved by the argument used against the Protestants, in the books of the faith of the perpetuity, written by Mr. Arnaud. A translation from the French.	Bruzeau, Paul.	1687 (1687)	Wing B5241A; ESTC R231821	54,760	188

upon any Point they have taken for pretext of their separation from the Catholick Church to conclude that their belief in point of the Eucharist is false How remote soever these particular consequences seem to be from these Principles the two general Maxims we have fixed That it 's impossible this Mysterie should be known only by Hereticks and yet the Sacramentarians only deny the Real Presence joyns and knitts them together by an indissoluble knot Wherefore all the Proofs of other controverted Points are convictions of the errour of the Calvinists in point of the Eucharist And this is what ought carefully to be remarked that it 's sufficient to convince them of errour upon any article of Faith whatsomever to conclude the same of their Doctrine of the Eucharist As this Mysterie supports the whole Catholick Religion so the same whole Religion supports it all the Proofs which establishes the several Points that divides us from the Calvinists meet and joyn in this and consequently forms such abundance of light and conviction that it 's impossible those who sincerely open the eyes of their Soul to look upon it to restrain themselves from crying out in a rapture with the Royal Prophet Testimonia tu a credibilia facta sunt nimis Psal 92. SECT XI The Conclusion Where once more the invincible Strength of this Argument is exposed I Can hardly perswade my self that the Ministers who have so high an esteem of reasoning as that they ground their Faith upon it seeing they cannot find it in the Scripture but by the help of their consequences can resolve so to overthrow the Rules thereof as that not being able to find any thing of falshood either in the Major or Minor of a Regular Argument will yet hazard to deny the conclusion of it And at the same time I can less understand what they can say to obscure the clearness and evidence of what was proved in the Major and the Minor. It seems then there is good ground to conclude that they will be forced to acknowledge that in the Book of the Perpetuity it 's most solidly proved that the Faith of the Roman Church concerning the Eucharist which is the same with that of all the Oriental Churches is the ancient and perpetual Faith of the Christians of all Ages and that consequently their opinion which is contrary thereto is a manifest Heresy Yet this is a thing we do not hope for unless it be of some particular person whom God may touch by his Grace But as to the generality of the Ministers we know their Genius better than to promise to our self that they will yeeld to the Truth how manifest soever it may be they are too much infatuate with their ridiculous Opinion of being come out of Babylon as to be able to resolve to return again to it That which will seem most convincing to them will pass in their conceit for a song of Tyre which imitats the Tune of the songs of Sion or for a crafty seducing of the Beast of the Apocalypse whose horns are like those of the Lamb. They will rather choise to put out their own eyes than to be attentive to it They will say Mr. Claud has given satisfaction to all that and it 's only an idle repetition of what has been confuted by their most Reverend Brother and deserves no answer Or if they make any it will not be in answering directly and precisely to every Article and in representing sincerely the Proofs which support all what is asserted by referring to the Books whence they are taken being for brevities sake we were obliged not to set them down at length but they will do nothing but confuse and ravel the Dispute by new incidents to break the threed of it and thereby hinder the simple People of their Party from seeing so easily the truth through the clouds wherewith they will endeavour to cover it But do what the Ministers will I can hardly believe that these who have Wit Conscience and Honour amongst the Protestants will not be perswaded by this Argument that what we believe of the Eucharist and what all those great Societies of the East believes with us is the common and perpetual Faith of the whole Church and consequently that of the Apostles For as to the matters of fact which shows the agreement of these Churches either in Beringarius his time or at this time they are too well grounded to be questioned in sincerity so it 's not like they can doubt of the truth of the Major which is proved in Sect. 1. and 5. And as to the impossibility of an Invisible Change these matters of fact being supposed it appears so easily of it self as it would seem we ought not to have sought Reasons to make it be better perceived if Mr. Claud's pertinaciousness had not obliged us to it But yet we needed no more but to lay open the incredible absurdities which are naturally included in the imagination of this insencible change to set the falsehood of this Fable upon the highest Point of evidence All I fear Gentlemen is that the adherence you have from your Infancy to a Religion you thought true hinder you in the middle of this enquiry and that by a mistaken humility you dare not contradict your Ministers for your Fathers did not adhere to the new Reformers in forsaking the Church but because they had inspired them with that criminal presumption that they ought not make account of the Fathers or Councils but every one could and ought to make himself Judge of the Fathers and Councils by the light he should imagine to have found in the Scripture after having invocated the Holy Spirit it is most just you make use of the same Priviledge in respect of your new Masters seeing hitherto they have not taken the boldness to say they were the only men who might be followed with all security and without any ground of fear of being misled This is all I ask of you your Ministers have so often told you that you must not believe men in matter of Religion because all men are lyars Begine at them with the Practise of this Rule and with judging of the Rule it self for perhaps it 's not so generally true as they pretend but making it general they cannot say it 's not true in respect of them I doubt not but you will confess they have still represented to you Transubstantiation which they call a Monster and the adoration of Jesus Christ in the Sacrament which they call Idolatry as two things unknown to the whole world save only to the Roman Church and that neither the Greeks nor the Arminians nor the Russians nor the Jacobits nor the Ethiopians nor generally any Christian beside those who submit to the Pope believes any thing of these two Articles These are Mr. Claud's words Preface of his answer to Mr. Arnaud pag. 759 and as they all look upon him as the great Defender of the pretended Reformed Churches

of them on his side as he pleases himself and on the other the things remains still quite contrary to what he says of them The Question says he p 641. is not of the whole-World it 's onely of the Occident and of the Provinces subject to the Obedience of the Pope That is to say I will not have this to be the question I will not be at the pains to explicate how the Doctrine of the Real Presence and Transubstantiation was introduced in the East in the Patriarchates of Constantinople of Alexandria of Jerusalem and Antiochia in the Churches of the Armenians Nestorians and Jacobites I will not trouble my self to guess how it did penetrate into Ethiopia Muscovia Mesopotamia Georgia Mingrelia ●oldavia Tartaria and into the Ind a's I had better say it is not there I will have sooner done and by this means I will free my self of a great many difficulties Mr. Claud if he pleases will permit us to adverrise him that he is Man and nor God and consequently neither his Words nor his Wishes are operative He would not have the Doctrine of the Real Presence to be in all these great Provinces But it is and will be in them whether he would or would not the matter does not at all depend upon him And we have made it appear by Proofs which we judge himself will not gainstand So that notwithstanding of all his Wishes the question is to know how the belief of the Real Presence could be introduced in all these places if it had not still been in them Cerrain it is that it is there established and reigns and domineers absolutely There is no other known no memory that ever any other Doctrine was there All these Nations are perswaded they hold it by continual succession from their Forefathers It is manifest they have held always this Doctrine since the time the Berengarians were first heard of and that in this point they were still united with the Roman Church Mr. Claud must then tell us who has made them embrace this Doctrine But how can he do it since the reason why he would exeem himself from entring into this question is because he finds that not only solid Proofs but even Inventions and Fictions fails him all his Machines become useless to him He talks to us of Paschasius of Disputes of the Intrigues of Monks of the Violences of the Court of Rome And to render all this heap of Dreams and Visions ridiculous there needs no more but to oblige him to cast his eyes on two third parts of the World which knows neither Paschasius nor his Book and are so far from acknowledging the Pope that they are most passionately bent to contradict him in all they can Let Mr. Claud tell us therefore who did perswade them to a Belief which he pretends to be directly contrary to Scripture to Fathers to Reason and Sense What Preachers did produce so great an effect How comes it to pass that none of all these Nations did resist this Innovation How comes it to pass that all of them have forgot they changed their Perswasion and takes their present Doctrine for that which the Apostles established in the Church and which has descended even to them by the succession of their Bishops Mr. See pag. 2. of the General Answer Claud wearies his Imagination to invent an impertinent Fable of a young Monk who without going out of his Convent and without being heard tell of abroad yet changes the Faith of the whole Occident He torments himself to accompany this Fable with a thousand phantastical suppositions He exhausts all his Figures and all his big Words to dazle a little the eyes of the simple and to hide from them the absurdity of this Romance But he takes no heed that all his endeavours are in vain there remains more than two thirds of his Work to be done without which all the pains he takes are to no purpose he must yet find other Paschasius's to carry this Faith into all the Societies separate from the Roman Church and into remote Provinces All these Paschasius's must have the same success that no person contradict nor oppose their Enterprizes that no person perceive them renversing the ancient Faith and in a word they must all have accomplisht their work at the same time when Berengarius shall happen to start up to the end he might with some ground of reason say That the Church was perished and there was no more remnant of it than those who followed him Lanfrancus cap. 23. I see very well that Mr. Claud for all his stoutness succumbs under the greatness of this Enterprize It frights him he gives it over he asks pardon he would wish with all his heart that that this made no part of the Question The Question says he is not of all the World. But there is no moyen to be complaisant to him The Question is of the whole World whether he will or will not because that Belief is establisht throughout the World. This depends neither upon him nor me It is a necessary part of this great Question and which draws all the rest after it Wherefore since by a constrained confession of his inability he acknowledges he cannot say there was made an universal change of Belief in the whole Orient he must needs abandon all the rest and avow that all his moyens are ruined all his Engines shattered all his Projects renversed and all his Suppositions destroyed If he say it was Paschasius who invented this Doctrine and that it could never have fallen into the brain of another we shew him an infinite number of Christians who neither knows Paschasius nor his Book and who yet makes still profession of this Doctrine and here he is convinced of timerity and imposture If he tells us That the Popes did by their Authority and Violences concur to make it be received We shall let him see those great Nations over whom they have no Jurisdiction in which they are not acknowledged and amongst whom their Decisions have neither Credit nor Authority and who notwithstanding are no less tenacious of the Faith of the Real Presence as those People who are most submitted to the Holy See and this does farther point him out as a Deceiver of the World by groundless and improbable Fables If he talks to us of Cabals and imaginary Intrigues of Disputes of Philosophy by which he pretends this Doctrine was established we shall shew an infinite number of People who neither knows the School Philosophy nor never disputed of these matters and amongst whom even the imagination of Mr. Claud himself could never make the Intrigues of the Court of Rome active and who yet believes the Real Presence as we do And lo here also all his Reckonings and Fables annihilated This is what regards the third Circumstance which is that this Innovation should have been made at the same time in all the Churches of the World Which renders it so