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ground_n church_n scripture_n tradition_n 3,070 5 9.4971 4 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A01042 Eubulus, or A dialogue, where-in a rugged Romish rhyme, (inscrybed, Catholicke questions, to the Protestaut [sic]) is confuted, and the questions there-of answered. By P.A. Forbes, Patrick, 1564-1635. 1627 (1627) STC 11147; ESTC S102413 101,942 162

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to_o his_o bare_a brag_n of_o the_o trve_v which_o trve_v notwithstanding_a say_v that_o father_n if_o you_o can_v show_v so_o clear_o as_o it_o can_v not_o be_v gaynesayde_a it_o be_v to_o be_v praefer_v to_o all_o these_o thing_n where-by_a i_o be_o hold_v within_o the_o catholic_a church_n if_o the_o name_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n be_v in_o this_o place_n proper_o to_o be_v take_v then_o shall_v augustine_n suppose_a case_n be_v ridiculous_a for_o truth_n can_v never_o be_v find_v anywhere_o else_o but_o within_o the_o catholic_a church_n take_v proper_o where-by_a it_o be_v clear_a that_o the_o catholic_a church_n in_o this_o and_o such_o other_o place_n be_v take_v for_o the_o communalitie_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n which_o have_v truth_n shall_v be_v regard_v but_o to_o who_o authority_n not_o the_o less_o the_o clear_a truth_n find_v with_o never_o so_o few_o holder_n be_v to_o be_v prefer_v for_o we_o ought_v not_o to_o consent_v no_o not_o to_o catholic_a bishop_n say_v the_o same_o father_n if_o they_o hold_v any_o pa●…l_n opinion_n contrary_a to_o canonicke_a scripture_n where-by_a be_v manifest_a both_o in_o what_o sense_n the_o father_n reason_v from_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n and_o what_o force_n they_o place_v in_o that_o argument_n and_o that_o how-so-eve_a by_o they_o and_o in_o that_o time_n and_o case_n of_o a_o church_n it_o be_v not_o inconvenientlie_o use_v yet_o that_o now_o in_o so_o far_o different_a a_o state_n still_o to_o usurp_v it_o in_o a_o like_a manner_n be_v extreme_a impudency_n this_o chrysostome_n do_v both_o foresee_v and_o give_v warning_n of_o it_o that_o the_o alter_a 49._o state_n of_o the_o church_n behoove_v to_o bring_v man_n to_o a_o more_o near_o and_o proper_a rule_n of_o examination_n as_o in_o his_o testimony_n above_o cite_v be_v clear_a in_o that_o how-so-eve_a before_o that_o heresy_n obtain_v place_n in_o the_o church_n and_o the_o abomination_n of_o desolation_n stand_v also_o in_o sanctis_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la locis_fw-la in_o the_o holy_a place_n of_o the_o church_n many_o way_n be_v to_o discern_v the_o church_n as_o while_o truth_n hold_v place_n in_o common_a be_v universality_n improper_o take_v multitude_n consent_n succession_n &c_n &c_n yet_o now_o after_o that_o heretical_a contagion_n have_v infect_v the_o body_n in_o common_a no_o manner_n of_o way_n be_v to_o discern_v the_o true_a church_n amid_o the_o corrupt_a community_n of_o the_o church_n but_o only_o the_o scripture_n you_o be_v great_o deceive_v philomathes_n if_o you_o esteem_v the_o church_n therefore_o to_o be_v call_v catholic_a either_o because_o alway_n the_o most_o part_n of_o man_n shall_v come_v in_o to_o she_o and_o embrace_v the_o profession_n or_o yet_o that_o of_o such_o as_o come_v in_o to_o she_o the_o most_o part_n shall_v alway_n hold_v the_o truth_n but_o she_o be_v catholic_a because_o her_o gate_n that_o be_v now_o casten_z open_a to_o all_o kindred_n tongue_n and_o nation_n that_o the_o righteous_a nation_n may_v enter_v in_o and_o how-so-eve_a that_o neither_o most_o part_v come_v in_o neither_o of_o such_o as_o be_v in_o she_o be_v the_o most_o part_n of_o she_o or_o save_v yet_o all_o universallie_o who_o be_v save_v must_v both_o be_v in_o she_o and_o of_o she_o and_o how-so-eve_a in_o she_o most_o part_n keep_v not_o truth_n yet_o no_o truth_n be_v but_o in_o she_o if_o as_o your_o man_n be_v already_a perceive_v and_o there-upon_o be_v gnaw_v their_o tongue_n for_o sorrow_n the_o truth_n preach_v by_o we_o take_v in_o short_a time_n such_o success_n as_o the_o water_n of_o your_o euphrates_n shall_v be_v dry_v up_o and_o if_o multitude_n and_o consent_v of_o nation_n shall_v be_v with_o 12._o we_o will_v you_o therefore_a yield_v we_o the_o title_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n if_o multitude_n of_o holder_n be_v alway_n a_o sure_a mark_n of_o the_o true_a church_n how_o say_v the_o scripture_n that_o all_o shall_v follow_v the_o beast_n and_o you_o confess_v that_o antichrist_n when_o he_o come_v shall_v obtain_v vniversallie_o now_o if_o in_o antichrist_n his_o usurpation_n universality_n shall_v be_v no_o note_n of_o the_o church_n how_o see_v you_o not_o that_o very_o unjustlie_o you_o lay_v it_o alway_n against_o we_o and_o that_o whatsoev_a universality_n you_o can_v allege_v for_o your_o pope_n it_o exeem_v he_o not_o from_o be_v that_o antichrist_n except_o he_o clear_v himself_o by_o better_a defence_n thus_o i_o hope_v i_o have_v clear_v that_o we_o neither_o disproove_v the_o father_n reason_v against_o heretic_n in_o oppose_v to_o they_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n and_o yet_o that_o you_o have_v not_o therefore_a any_o either_o right_n in_o their_o argument_n or_o ground_n there-upon_o to_o make_v catholic_a a_o discern_a mark_n of_o the_o church_n so_o as_o your_o man_n main_n proposition_n so_o far_o as_o concern_v this_o note_n of_o universality_n be_v still_o sophistical_a and_o vain_a but_o now_o if_o it_o be_v even_o a_o discern_a mark_n as_o your_o man_n will_v make_v it_o yet_o let_v we_o try_v how_o just_o your_o church_n do_v vindicate_v it_o to_o herself_o and_o let_v we_o examine_v your_o man_n main_n assumption_n in_o that_o part_n philadelphus_n as_o you_o have_v dress_v his_o proposition_n in_o that_o part_n i_o think_v all_o labour_n against_o his_o assumption_n be_v idle_a iv._o for_o if_o catholic_a can_v be_v no_o discern_a mark_n of_o the_o church_n no_o not_o any_o mark_n at_o all_o as_o you_o have_v at_o length_n and_o evidentlie_o evince_v how_o can_v it_o be_v rome_n mark_n eubulus_n yet_o philadelphus_n i_o will_v omit_v nothing_n where-by_a i_o may_v possible_o induce_v eriphilus_n to_o take_v more_o of_o my_o counsel_n but_o in_o refel_v this_o your_o man_n assumption_n of_o his_o main_n argument_n where-by_a he_o appropriate_v to_o rome_n the_o title_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n i_o must_v protest_v eriphilus_n that_o it_o be_v no_o praejudice_n to_o my_o matter_n that_o you_o do_v so_o confident_o call_v yourselves_o catholic_n and_o your_o company_n the_o catholic_a church_n else_o if_o you_o will_v have_v this_o your_o usurp_n of_o that_o name_n to_o carry_v any_o weight_n and_o that_o therefore_o you_o will_v have_v we_o to_o account_v so_o of_o you_o i_o desire_v of_o you_o the_o same_o aequitablenesse_n in_o our_o case_n that_o because_o we_o both_o esteem_n and_o call_v ourselves_o the_o catholic_a church_n and_o catholic_a man_n that_o therefore_o you_o will_v hold_v we_o for_o such_o or_o if_o you_o consider_v that_o a_o argument_n à_fw-la dici_fw-la ad_fw-la esse_fw-la conclude_v not_o and_o that_o therefore_a pertinentlie_o the_o logician_n place_n before_o their_o category_n the_o distinction_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d of_o thing_n that_o be_v say_v and_o of_o thing_n that_o be_v then_o let_v we_o lay_v aside_o what_o either_o you_o of_o yourselves_o or_o we_o of_o ourselves_o do_v partial_o speak_v or_o arrogantlie_o arrogate_v and_o let_v we_o try_v what_o be_v true_a of_o we_o both_o philomathes_n your_o protestation_n be_v most_o aequitable_a for_o a_o bare_a claim_n except_o it_o be_v instruct_v can_v make_v no_o title_n eubulus_n then_o philomathes_n in_o that_o part_n of_o your_o poet_n v._o rhyme_n which_o be_v inscrybed_n catholic_a and_o which_o you_o do_v last_o read_v beside_o the_o proposition_n which_o i_o have_v refell_v he_o assume_v that_o the_o note_n of_o catholic_a or_o universality_n convean_v proper_o to_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n which_o false_a assumption_n he_o seek_v to_o sustain_v by_o four_o reason_n the_o first_o of_o which_o he_o conclude_v thus_o what_o company_n do_v take_v in_o hand_n and_o accord_o first_o perform_v the_o publish_n of_o the_o gospel_n through_o the_o world_n and_o convert_v all_o nation_n to_o the_o faith_n that_o must_v be_v the_o company_n to_o which_o the_o title_n of_o catholic_a or_o universality_n proper_o belong_v and_o that_o company_n be_v the_o catholic_a church_n but_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n only_o do_v both_o under-take_v and_o perform_v this_o therefore_a the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v the_o catholic_a church_n and_o to_o she_o proper_o that_o note_n belong_v now_o here_o some_o poëticall_a inspiration_n have_v transport_v your_o man_n to_o give_v we_o such_o whether_o a_o definition_n or_o description_n of_o catholic_a as_o till_o now_o none_o ever_o hear_v of_o we_o esteem_v as_o i_o have_v show_v that_o the_o catholic_a church_n have_v be_v that_o company_n of_o whatsoev_a time_n place_n or_o nation_n which_o in_o the_o communion_n of_o one_o and_o the_o same_o spirit_n join_v to_o their_o head_n christ_n do_v make_v up_o the_o fullness_n of_o his_o mystical_a body_n whether_o in_o the_o heaven_n triumph_v or_o as_o yet_o here_o in_o their_o course_n fighting_z
chapter_n vii_o holiness_n this_o you_o say_v in_o very_a deed_n ●…_n when_o you_o rehearse_v the_o nicene_n creed_n one_o church_n catholic_a holy_a and_o apostolic_a this_o be_v another_o mark_n true_o the_o church_n must_v be_v holy_a holy_a man_n holy_a service_n ceremony_n and_o sacrifice_n sacrament_n and_o holy_a day_n be_v observe_v in_o her_o alway_n as_o for_o the_o saint_n and_o martyr_n all_o and_o virgin_n which_o you_o sayncte_v do_v call_v who_o name_n be_v in_o your_o calendar_n when_o live_v they_o and_o where_o in_o what_o religion_n be_v it_o they_o die_v by_o who_o be_v they_o canonize_v if_o it_o be_v not_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n then_o shall_v i_o be_v convert_v soon_o if_o they_o be_v not_o your_o company_n then_o be_v your_o faith_n a_o heresy_n philadelphus_n i_o be_o against_o both_o your_o wish_n and_o expectation_n eriphilus_n so_o far_o cheer_v with_o your_o man_n poesy_n as_o if_o it_o may_v not_o trouble_v your_o cheer_n i_o will_v ask_v even_o chearfullie_o of_o you_o why_o he_o have_v pass_v by_o the_o apostolic_a creed_n which_o with_o some_o more_o credit_n he_o may_v have_v cite_v and_o wherein_a he_o may_v have_v find_v al-so_a the_o property_n of_o holiness_n to_o allege_v the_o nicene_n for_o if_o he_o think_v that_o this_o word_n apostolic_a will_v have_v mar_v his_o metre_n by_o make_v his_o line_n a_o foot_n long_o yet_o the_o shortness_n of_o his_o immediate_o subsequent_a verse_n may_v have_v recompense_v that_o slip_n neither_o have_v he_o be_v in_o the_o rest_n of_o this_o rhyme_n so_o squimmish_a as_o to_o stand_v too_o praeciselie_o on_o foot_n or_o half_a foot_n eubulus_n we_o will_v let_v this_o pass_v philadelphus_n for_o as_o i_o i●…_n protest_v before_o i_o be_o not_o to_o insist_v in_o tax_v all_o his_o absurdity_n no_o not_o in_o the_o matter_n much_o less_o in_o his_o metre_n which_o be_v less_o material_a i_o come_v to_o speak_v of_o this_o mark_n of_o holiness_n and_o before_o i_o enter_v to_o examine_v the_o man_n logic_n i_o will_v yield_v this_o much_o that_o this_o once_o he_o have_v fall_v on_o a_o true_a property_n of_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n yea_o and_o i_o will_v grant_v thus_o much_o more_o that_o albeit_a all_o property_n be_v not_o mark_n because_o more_o be_v require_v for_o be_v a_o proper_a mark_n than_o only_o to_o be_v a_o proper_a attribute_n yet_o that_o holiness_n be_v even_o a_o proper_a mark_n of_o christ_n his_o church_n but_o wherein_a the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v as_o little_a and_o less_o advantage_n than_o in_o any_o of_o the_o former_a and_o for_o clear_v of_o this_o philomathes_n i_o must_v first_o put_v out_o your_o man_n from_o the_o lurking-denne_n of_o aequivocation_n wherein_a your_o doctor_n delight_v to_o lie_v and_o thence_o to_o shoot_v at_o the_o innocent_a in_o secret_a for_o if_o by_o holiness_n be_v mean_v that_o sanctify_a disposition_n of_o the_o soul_n and_o affection_n by_o the_o spirit_n of_o regeneration_n wrought_v in_o all_o true_a christian_n in_o that_o sense_n it_o can_v be_v no_o mark_n because_o god_n only_o know_v the_o heart_n of_o men._n and_o we_o conclude_v before_o with_o consent_n of_o bellarmine_n that_o all_o mark_n must_v of_o necessity_n fall_v under_o sense_n and_o again_o if_o by_o holiness_n be_v mean_v that_o which_o be_v see_v and_o expose_v to_o perception_n in_o man_n outward_a carriage_n according_a to_o the_o law_n of_o righteousness_n in_o manner_n and_o common_a conversation_n neither_o thus_o can_v it_o be_v a_o proper_a mark_n of_o christ_n his_o true_a church_n for_o that_o by_o the_o restrain_v virtue_n of_o god_n his_o spirit_n of_o administration_n even_o heathen_a man_n and_o infideles_fw-la will_v appear_v in_o all_o moral_a virtue_n matcheable_a to_o christian_n except_o that_o we_o know_v that_o whatsoev_a be_v not_o of_o faith_n be_v sin_n be_v not_o paul_n unrebukeable_a as_o concern_v the_o law_n while_n yet_o he_o be_v not_o only_o no_o believer_n but_o 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upright_o from_o the_o bastard_n in_o that_o same_o kind_n so_o as_o your_o objection_n of_o heathen_a carriage_n in_o this_o case_n be_v clear_o the_o same_o sophism_n which_o you_o may_v remember_v that_o before_z you_o tax_v in_o our_o men._n eubulus_n do_v you_o not_o know_v philomathes_n that_o ii_o even_o among_o professoures_n not_o only_o will_v hypocrite_n in_o all_o these_o outwards_o appear_v to_o go_v far_o beyond_o even_o the_o most_o sincere_a and_o single-hearted_n christian_n but_o even_o superstitious_a and_o corrupt_a worshipper_n yet_o in_o a_o blind_a zeal_n will_v seem_v to_o keep_v more_o preciselie_o the_o way_n of_o holiness_n and_o righteousness_n than_o who_o have_v more_o and_o true_a light_n and_o if_o no_o more_o be_v to_o lead_v you_o to_o know_v that_o holiness_n in_o this_o kind_n can_v be_v no_o mark_n this_o alone_z may_v tell_v it_o you_o that_o your_o own_o man_n alway_n in_o their_o dispute_n with_o we_o about_o the_o true_a church_n doctrine_n and_o worship_n do_v reject_v and_o that_o just_o all_o argument_n bring_v by_o we_o against_o any_o person_n or_o personal_a action_n of_o men._n how-so-eve_a again_o in_o charge_v we_o they_o do_v forget_v themselves_o so_o far_o as_o alway_n to_o fall_v to_o personal_a and_o those_z impudent_o false_a and_o unjust_a crimination_n so_o as_o you_o may_v see_v that_o of_o necessity_n this_o mark_n of_o holiness_n must_v be_v understand_v of_o a_o holy_a and_o lawful_a worship_n and_o holy_a and_o pure_a doctrine_n and_o albeit_a i_o confess_v that_o this_o can_v never_o be_v anie-where_a but_o that_o therewith_o al-so_a shall_v be_v some_o number_n of_o name_n both_o inwardlie_a sanctify_a by_o the_o worde_n and_o spirit_n and_o al-so_a show_v forth_o their_o faith_n by_o their_o work_n yet_o it_o be_v the_o holiness_n of_o doctrine_n and_o lawful_a and_o pure_a worship_n which_o be_v the_o proper_a mark_n of_o the_o true_a church_n and_o not_o either_o the_o inward_a sanctification_n of_o the_o soul_n which_o we_o see_v not_o or_o the_o only_o outward_a manner_n wherein_a we_o may_v be_v deceive_v of_o your_o man_n argument_n i_o will_v now_o set_v it_o before_o you_o that_o you_o may_v see_v the_o force_n thereof_o that_o company_n which_o only_o have_v in_o it_o holy_a man_n holy_a service_n ceremony_n sacrifice_n sacrament_n day_n etc._n etc._n must_v be_v the_o church_n of_o god._n but_o in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n only_o these_o be_v to_o be_v find_v therefore_a the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v the_o only_a church_n of_o god._n now_o to_o grant_v his_o proposition_n or_o major_a in_o such_o sense_n as_o wherein_a i_o have_v already_a clear_v and_o you_o also_a philomathes_n have_v confess_v that_o only_o it_o can_v consist_v i_o deny_v his_o assumption_n or_o minor_n as_o which_o be_v shameless_o false_a except_o by_o the_o only_a sure_a and_o layde-downe_a rule_n he_o prove_v it_o philadelphus_n you_o must_v attend_v eubulus_n the_o probation_n of_o his_o 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christ_n shall_v not_o have_v continue_v and_o continue_v visible_a therefore_a thing_n affirm_v by_o you_o can_v not_o consist_v with_o the_o promise_n of_o christ_n make_v to_o his_o church_n and_o her_o condition_n accord_o and_o consequent_o you_o be_v haereticke_n thus_o have_v as_o he_o think_v set_v we_o aside_o from_o any_o interest_n in_o the_o title_n of_o christ_n church_n next_o upon_o a_o ground_n confess_v by_o we_o but_o miserable_a mistake_v by_o he_o he_o build_v a_o conclusion_n for_o the_o second_o part_n of_o his_o main_n assumption_n which_o concern_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n thus_o to_o give_v lawful_a ordination_n to_o pastor_n be_v competent_a only_o to_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n but_o you_o protestant_n acknowledge_v that_o the_o ordination_n give_v by_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v lawful_a ordination_n therefore_a the_o church_n of_o rome_n must_v be_v the_o church_n of_o christ_n do_v you_o not_o now_o perceive_v philomathes_n whither_o your_o man_n 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buy_v from_o the_o earth_n to_o be_v the_o true_a citizen_n of_o heaven_n albeit_a in_o the_o earth_n yet_o not_o of_o it_o now_o what_o time_n popery_n do_v first_o begin_v what_o man_n be_v he_o that_o need_v to_o make_v any_o question_n who_o read_v paul_n 7._o affirm_v plain_o that_o the_o mystery_n of_o iniquity_n be_v even_o then_o begin_v to_o work_v or_o who_o read_v john_n avouch_v that_o antichrist_n 3._o be_v even_o then_o in_o the_o world_n that_o the_o first_o beginning_n and_o subtle_a insinuation_n be_v not_o common_o mark_v it_o be_v the_o lord_n his_o wise_a dispensation_n and_o satan_n deep_a deceit_n for_o otherway_n it_o have_v be_v no_o mystery_n do_v not_o the_o lord_n himself_o teach_v we_o in_o parable_n that_o 2●…_n the_o envious_a one_o do_v sow_v his_o tare_n even_o with_o the_o good_a seed_n in_o the_o lord_n his_o own_o field_n and_o that_o so_o covertlie_o and_o subtle_o while_o the_o servant_n be_v sleep_v that_o allbeeit_a mix_v with_o the_o good_a seed_n and_o wax_a in_o the_o midst_n thereof_o yet_o it_o be_v not_o espy_v until_o by_o different_a stalk_v flower_n and_o ear_n it_o bewray_v who_o hand_n do_v scatter_v it_o so_o as_o the_o very_a servant_n albeit_a by_o time_n they_o see_v it_o grow_v and_o wax_a and_o discern_v it_o to_o be_v adulterous_a yet_o they_o can_v not_o tell_v how_o by_o who_o nor_o what_o time_n it_o be_v sow_v and_o shall_v tare_n i_o pray_v you_o be_v count_v good_a wheat_n except_o the_o moment_n and_o first_o sower_n thereof_o be_v show_v your_o man_n dote_v and_o deceive_v in_o reason_v sophisticallie_o from_o popery_n in_o the_o first_o seed_n to_o popery_n beget_v and_o even_o from_o popery_n beget_v in_o the_o first_o subtle_a insinuation_n and_o cunninglie-covered_n beginning_n to_o popery_n bear_v and_o bring_v forth_o and_o from_o popery_n even_o bring_v forth_o but_o yet_o still_o mask_v under_o fair_a and_o plausible_a pretence_n and_o swedle_v up_o in_o the_o clout_n of_o god_n his_o 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a_o more_o large_a answer_n to_o this_o same_o vain_a question_n send_v to_o myself_o by_o one_o of_o your_o side_n in_o my_o discovery_n of_o his_o dotage_n there-in_a philomathes_n i_o will_v god_n willing_a read_v it_o but_o what_o say_v you_o to_o this_o where_o be_v the_o servantes_n of_o the_o lord_n that_o none_o of_o they_o dare_v speak_v a_o word_n to_o defend_v the_o know_a truth_n etc._n etc._n eubulus_n they_o be_v even_o where_o satan_n throne_n be_v xxii_o and_o allbeeit_a tollerate_a spiritual_a fornication_n for_o which_o 13._o the_o lord_n have_v something_o against_o they_o yet_o keep_v the_o name_n of_o god_n themselves_o and_o inform_v other_o in_o the_o true_a knowledge_n thereof_o they_o be_v in_o the_o temple_n while_o antichrist_n tread_v down_o the_o court_n thereof_o 3._o and_o the_o holy_a city_n and_o powerfullie_o dispense_n there-in_a both_o light_n and_o grace_n to_o true_a christian_n and_o have_v vengeance_n in_o readiness_n against_o their_o enemy_n 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