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ground_n church_n false_a true_a 1,760 5 5.2499 4 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A11187 The dialogues of William Richworth or The iudgmend [sic] of common sense in the choise of religion Rushworth, William. 1640 (1640) STC 21454; ESTC S116286 138,409 599

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to_o be_v suspect_v as_o not_o true_a to_o any_o authority_n though_o he_o profess_v to_o acknowledge_v it_o vncle._n soft_o cousin_n soft_o there_o be_v nothing_o more_o frequten_v among_o man_n then_o through_o passion_n and_o oversight_n to_o forsake_v their_o own_o principle_n and_o contradict_v in_o one_o matter_n what_o themselves_o confess_v in_o a_o other_o and_o therefore_o although_o it_o be_v true_a by_o consequence_n of_o reason_n that_o who_o soever_o do_v rise_v against_o the_o church_n in_o this_o kind_n may_v upon_o the_o same_o ground_n and_o principle_n be_v false_a to_o any_o other_o authority_n or_o government_n yet_o upon_o other_o reason_n or_o by_o not_o see_v the_o consequence_n of_o his_o fact_n he_o may_v likewise_o be_v true_a and_o faithful_a and_o therefore_o it_o be_v rashness_n to_o condemn_v for_o this_o reason_n alone_o those_o truth_n which_o such_o a_o one_o may_v perhaps_o maintain_v in_o other_o matter_n howsoever_o be_v not_o our_o conclusion_n 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seem_v to_o be_v a_o frame_v and_o settle_a church_n and_o have_v receive_v this_o doctrine_n from_o their_o father_n for_o we_o see_v that_o possession_n though_o at_o the_o first_o unlawful_o get_v do_v in_o time_n prevaille_fw-fr and_o quarrel_n cease_v even_o where_o prince_n be_v pretender_n if_o the_o welsh_a man_n shall_v now_o pretend_v to_o have_v be_v unjust_o put_v out_o of_o england_n by_o the_o saxon_n the_o roman_n out_o of_o france_n by_o the_o french_a the_o greek_n out_o of_o italy_n by_o the_o goth_n who_o will_v think_v their_o quarrel_n just_a so_o likewise_o why_o shall_v the_o protestant_n though_o their_o time_n be_v not_o so_o long_o nor_o their_o possession_n so_o quiet_a rather_o yield_v to_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n than_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n to_o they_o or_o to_o the_o church_n of_o england_n for_o example_n unless_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n can_v demonstrate_v her_o position_n against_o the_o protestant_n which_o i_o have_v not_o hear_v any_o of_o our_o learned_a man_n say_v she_o can_v vncle._n although_o it_o be_v both_o reasonable_a in_o all_o liklyhood_n and_o peradventure_o may_v be_v convince_v that_o who_o first_o part_v and_o make_v the_o division_n ought_v in_o law_n of_o good_a government_n to_o return_v and_o although_o i_o can_v likewise_o pretend_v that_o the_o church_n of_o england_n compare_v to_o that_o church_n which_o live_v in_o community_n with_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v but_o a_o small_a part_n and_o therefore_o bind_v to_o yield_v to_o the_o great_a for_o to_o say_v that_o the_o protestant_n of_o england_n live_v in_o community_n with_o all_o other_o church_n but_o the_o roman_a be_v manifest_o false_a since_o all_o other_o church_n will_v anathematise_v diverse_a of_o their_o tenet_n and_o they_o also_o the_o tenet_n of_o other_o church_n nor_o be_v there_o any_o rule_n of_o unity_n and_o communion_n among_o they_o although_o i_o say_v i_o can_v urge_v these_o and_o other_o reason_n to_o this_o effect_n yet_o i_o will_v only_o propose_v you_o two_o protestant_n the_o catholic_a church_n can_v come_v to_o the_o protestant_n the_o former_a shall_v plain_o show_v that_o the_o catholic_a church_n can_v yield_v unto_o protestant_n without_o essential_o ruine_v herself_o and_o therefore_o no_o possible_a union_n betwixt_o the_o church_n unless_o the_o protestant_n will_v bend_v for_o if_o the_o catholic_a church_n do_v essential_o subsiste_v and_o maintain_v herself_o upon_o this_o principle_n and_o ground_n that_o she_o have_v receive_v her_o doctrine_n from_o jesus_n christ_n by_o word_n of_o mouth_n and_o succession_n from_o hand_n to_o hand_n which_o can_v fail_v put_v the_o case_n she_o yeilde'_v to_o the_o church_n of_o england_n in_o any_o point_n which_o she_o hold_v upon_o this_o principle_n be_v it_o not_o evident_a that_o she_o must_v of_o necessity_n forgo_v she_o hold_v and_o for_o sake_n her_o only_a principle_n where_o upon_o be_v build_v all_o her_o faith_n and_o belief_n be_v it_o not_o manifest_a that_o she_o may_v as_o well_o forsake_v all_o as_o any_o one_o point_n which_o she_o hold_v upon_o this_o tenor_n and_o motive_n sure_o it_o be_v but_o the_o protestant_n hold_v their_o doctrine_n and_o position_n upon_o no_o such_o tie_n but_o only_o upon_o their_o own_o at_o most_o probable_a interpretation_n of_o the_o scripture_n which_o they_o may_v change_v upon_o better_a consideration_n be_v upon_o far_o easy_a term_n to_o yield_v and_o that_o without_o prejudice_n to_o their_o religion_n or_o judgement_n because_o tenet_n only_o hold_v upon_o probability_n may_v be_v change_v upon_o any_o good_a occasion_n or_o new_a know_a motive_n without_o disparregment_n to_o the_o author_n and_o certain_o what_o church_n soever_o do_v not_o think_v herself_o unerrable_a in_o any_o point_n what_o she_o hold_v may_v be_v false_a and_o therefore_o it_o be_v temeritie_n for_o such_o a_o church_n to_o hold_v any_o point_n certain_o true_a and_o if_o she_o hold_v not_o any_o point_n certain_o true_a why_o shall_v not_o the_o very_a reason_n of_o state_n and_o interest_n seek_v to_o have_v they_o change_v and_o settle_v secure_a and_o infalible_a since_o humane_a nature_n be_v ever_o incline_v to_o believe_v what_o be_v for_o her_o own_o profit_n the_o second_o reason_n do_v prove_v that_o the_o protestant_n be_v bind_v in_o nature_n and_o by_o the_o light_n of_o reason_n to_o yield_v to_o the_o catholic_a communion_n for_o if_o nature_n teach_v we_o that_o a_o protestant_n practize_o ought_v not_o to_o contradict_v his_o principle_n and_o judgement_n of_o his_o reason_n and_o that_o the_o necessity_n and_o force_n of_o experience_n do_v convince_v most_o evident_o that_o there_o be_v no_o government_n in_o a_o church_n without_o prescribe_v of_o some_o tenet_n and_o forbid_v of_o other_o restrain_v or_o punish_v if_o need_v be_v such_o as_o will_v not_o comply_v with_o those_o prescribe_a canon_n or_o article_n and_o that_o it_o be_v likewise_o evident_a that_o this_o be_v contrary_n to_o the_o liberty_n of_o opinion_n which_o the_o protestant_a putte_n for_o his_o first_o and_o chief_a maxim_n to_o approve_v his_o separation_n from_o the_o roman_a church_n will_v it_o not_o follow_v with_o out_o contradiction_n that_o either_o the_o protestant_n must_v break_v with_o reason_n and_o the_o nature_n of_o man_n in_o hold_v liberty_n in_o their_o judgment_n and_o understanding_n and_o oblige_v to_o obedience_n in_o their_o will_n and_o practice_v or_o else_o they_o must_v close_v with_o the_o catholic_a church_n in_o their_o judgment_n and_o profess_v the_o inerrabilitie_n of_o the_o church_n at_o least_o so_o far_o as_o oblige_v her_o subject_n not_o to_o withstand_v or_o oppose_v but_o to_o submit_v and_o obey_v her_o canon_n and_o command_n and_o for_o your_o example_n of_o politic_a state_n which_o by_o possession_n and_o prescription_n have_v at_o length_n obtain_v right_a you_o must_v remember_v that_o all_o their_o beginning_n and_o ground_n be_v upon_o humane_a nature_n and_o consent_n of_o man_n and_o therefore_o by_o the_o same_o law_n by_o which_o they_o be_v make_v they_o may_v be_v likewise_o alter_v but_o the_o church_n of_o god_n be_v make_v by_o christ_n and_o his_o minister_n and_o therefore_o reason_n tell_v we_o we_o that_o her_o institution_n be_v to_o be_v inviolable_o conserve_v nor_o ought_v or_o can_v any_o prescription_n of_o time_n prevail_v against_o she_o wherefore_o sithence_o that_o church_n which_o the_o protestant_n part_v from_o hold_v a_o hold_v still_o that_o the_o church_n of_o god_n nether_a be_v nor_o can_v be_v but_o one_o in_o all_o age_n and_o place_n which_o position_n she_o profess_v to_o have_v teceive_v in_o the_o same_o manner_n and_o upon_o the_o same_o ground_n as_o she_o have_v receive_v the_o rest_n of_o her_o doctrine_n they_o protestant_n must_v of_o necessity_n first_o show_n that_o they_o be_v the_o true_a church_n of_o christ_n before_o they_o can_v plead_v possession_n or_o prescription_n for_o if_o there_o can_v be_v but_o one_o church_n no_o prescription_n can_v make_v they_o that_o one_o since_o at_o their_o very_a begin_n and_o ever_o since_o a_o other_o both_o be_v and_o be_v in_o more_o quiet_a possession_n than_o they_o and_o pleade'_v the_o same_o title_n more_o strong_o nephew_n why_o then_o uncle_n i_o see_v there_o remain_v no_o other_o question_n but_o whether_o the_o protestant_n can_v convince_v their_o position_n or_o no_o which_o i_o believe_v will_v be_v a_o hard_a task_n wherefore_o uncle_n i_o thank_v you_o hearty_o for_o this_o good_a lesson_n it_o grow_v late_a i_o fear_v i_o shall_v hold_v you_o up_o to_o long_a it_o be_v time_n for_o you_o to_o take_v your_o rest_n vncle._n it_o be_v true_a nephew_n they_o ought_v in_o deed_n to_o convince_v and_o demonstrate_v their_o tenant_n and_o i_o know_v of_o no_o other_o way_n they_o have_v to_o do_v
follow_v that_o such_o question_n as_o be_v betwixt_o catholic_n and_o protestant_n concern_v those_o point_n may_v appear_v to_o be_v of_o impor●ce_n and_o so_o fundamental_a as_o that_o christian_a religion_n can_v have_v its_o subsistence_n and_o progress_n without_o the_o knowledge_n of_o the_o truth_n in_o such_o question_n and_o position_n and_o certes_o if_o credit_n and_o authority_n be_v the_o only_a or_o at_o least_o the_o main_a instrument_n and_o principal_a mean_n whereby_o the_o preacher_n of_o christianity_n can_v press_v and_o promote_v christian_a doctrine_n and_o that_o this_o credit_n and_o authority_n be_v incomparable_o more_o raise_v and_o strengthen_v by_o the_o catholic_a position_n then_o by_o the_o protestant_n negative_a it_o must_v needs_o follow_v that_o the_o efficacitie_n of_o christian_a preacher_n and_o the_o strength_n of_o their_o cause_n be_v without_o comparison_n greath_a among_o catholic_n ten_o amongst_a protestant_n which_o doubtless_o can_v but_o move_v any_o reasonable_a man_n who_o think_v and_o belieue'_v that_o our_o eternal_a good_a relye'_v and_o depende'_v upon_o christian_a doctrine_n i_o know_v there_o be_v other_o necessity_n of_o the_o sacrament_n as_o for_o the_o unity_n of_o the_o church_n which_o be_v disperse_v though_o the_o whole_a world_n can_v not_o be_v otherwise_o conserve_v then_o by_o the_o practice_n of_o some_o external_a action_n common_a to_o they_o all_o whereby_o they_o may_v know_v one_o the_o other_o as_o alsoe_o for_o the_o augmentation_n of_o charity_n and_o grace_n by_o the_o frequentation_n of_o they_o but_o these_o point_n have_v their_o proper_a treatise_n and_o place_n belong_v unto_o they_o it_o suffice_v i_o have_v show_v you_o that_o there_o ought_v to_o be_v man_n appoint_v who_o care_n function_n and_o employment_n be_v to_o teach_v and_o conserve_v in_o the_o people_n the_o truth_n of_o christian_a doctrine_n and_o that_o for_o this_o effect_n those_o man_n must_v needs_o have_v some_o quality_n above_o the_o ordinary_a sort_n of_o man_n to_o authorise_v and_o give_v credit_n to_o their_o document_n for_o although_o this_o doctrine_n of_o its_o own_o nature_n tend_v to_o the_o high_a degree_n of_o perfection_n and_o consequent_o deserve_v of_o itself_o to_o be_v infinite_o esteem_v and_o honnor_v yet_o be_v supernatural_a that_o be_v far_o above_o the_o innate_a capacity_n and_o reach_n of_o man_n the_o preacher_n and_o teacher_n thereof_o must_v of_o necessity_n be_v endow_v with_o extraordinary_a power_n and_o authority_n to_o give_v credit_n thereunto_o which_o suppose_v we_o may_v proceed_v farthe_n to_o the_o three_o degree_n and_o condition_n of_o remove_v impediment_n hinder_v the_o prosecution_n of_o our_o eternal_a good_a and_o first_o inquire_v whether_o §._o 6_o the_o resolution_n of_o general_n counsel_n be_v sufficient_a to_o decide_v controversy_n of_o faith_n both_o in_o point_n of_o necessity_n and_o of_o indifferency_n tell_v i_o then_o cousin_n be_v it_o think_v you_o lawful_a for_o a_o private_a man_n to_o who_o care_n the_o church_n be_v not_o commit_v to_o doubt_v in_o himself_o and_o breed_v doubt_n in_o other_o touch_v such_o point_n as_o these_o pastor_n of_o christ_n flock_n who_o by_o their_o function_n and_o profession_n have_v the_o church_n government_n commit_v unto_o they_o be_v agree_v upon_o and_o teach_v with_o common_a consent_n to_o the_o whole_a church_n nephew_n first_o i_o see_v uncle_n that_o such_o a_o man_n shall_v not_o easy_o induce_v man_n to_o believe_v he_o against_o so_o great_a a_o opposition's_n and_o that_o therefore_o he_o have_v need_n of_o better_a ground_n in_o such_o point_n then_o in_o other_o second_o i_o see_v that_o no_o wise_a man_n will_v oppose_v the_o opinion_n of_o so_o many_o authorize_v expert_n or_o hold_v for_o expert_n and_o that_o in_o a_o matter_n of_o their_o profession_n without_o far_o great_a and_o more_o pregnant_a reason_n in_o this_o particular_a business_n then_o will_v be_v necessary_a in_o a_o other_o wherein_o he_o have_v no●_n such_o main_a prudentiall_a motive_n against_o he_o but_o whether_o there_o be_v any_o obligation_n in_o conscience_n or_o whether_o this_o be_v a_o matter_n of_o such_o importance_n as_o to_o make_v a_o fundamental_a point_n of_o religion_n of_o it_o that_o i_o know_v not_o for_o contrariwise_o i_o think_v there_o shall_v be_v also_o a_o obligation_n in_o conscience_n when_o a_o man_n finde_n that_o these_o governor_n be_v mistake_v that_o he_o shall_v oppose_v they_o to_o the_o utmost_a of_o his_o power_n vncle._n you_o do_v not_o full_o conceive_v my_o question_n which_o be_v this_o whether_o because_o these_o man_n have_v the_o charge_n and_o care_n to_o reach_v god_n law_n in_o the_o church_n set_v a_o side_n all_o other_o difficulty_n there_o be_v a_o obligation_n in_o reason_n upon_o this_o precise_a ground_n no●_n easy_o to_o oppose_v their_o determination_n without_o be_v certain_a and_o secure_a of_o very_o good_a footing_n nor_o to_o attempt_v any_o thing_n against_o their_o verdict_n with_o out_o evidence_n because_o say_v i_o to_o what_o purpose_n be_v their_o judgement_n if_o it_o be_v as_o free_a to_o oppose_v they_o after_o as_o before_o nephew_n as_o for_o obligation_n i_o tell_v you_o uncle_n i_o know_v not_o of_o any_o but_o this_o i_o see_v common_a sense_n and_o natural_a reason_n teach_v we_o that_o such_o as_o have_v the_o charge_n and_o care_n of_o instruct_v other_o be_v suppose_v to_o have_v more_o understanding_n in_o the_o doctrine_n which_o they_o teach_v they_o those_o who_o learn_v of_o they_o and_o therefore_o if_o any_o disput_n or_o controversy_n arrise_n in_o such_o matter_n i_o see_v it_o be_v ●●ter_n these_o teacher_n shall_v be_v the_o judge_n thereof_o then_o those_o who_o learn_v and_o in_o a_o matter_n of_o 〈◊〉_d to_o appeal_v from_o they_o when_o a_o great_a and_o universal_a part_n of_o the_o wise_a have_v give_v their_o consent_a iugdment_n to_o the_o 〈◊〉_d be_v as_o absurd_a as_o to_o appeal_v from_o master_n to_o scholar_n or_o from_o man_n of_o one_o profession_n to_o man_n of_o a_o other_o vncle._n why_o this_o be_v all_o i_o ask_v for_o where_o one_o part_n be_v absurd_a in_o reason_n the_o other_o must_v needs_o be_v certain_a by_o the_o same_o reason_n and_o what_o be_v absurd_a in_o practice_n it_o be_v certain_a that_o aught_o to_o be_v avoid_v wherefore_o if_o i_o mistake_v not_o your_o discourse_n conclude_n that_o wheresoever_o the_o question_n be_v of_o skill_n there_o no_o man_n ought_v to_o appeal_v from_o they_o who_o have_v charge_n and_o care_n to_o teach_v to_o those_o who_o learn_v in_o matter_n of_o that_o art_n and_o therefore_o if_o those_o who_o have_v the_o charge_n and_o care_n to_o teach_v christian_a doctrine_n do_v constant_o and_o general_o agree_v in_o any_o point_n after_o they_o have_v hear_v and_o consider_v the_o opposition_n make_v against_o they_o nether_a aught_o any_o man_n appeal_v unto_o the_o laiety_n nor_o can_v the_o laiety_n without_o presumption_n and_o rashness_n accept_v of_o his_o appeal_n nor_o make_v themselves_o judge_n in_o a_o business_n of_o other_o man_n profession_n wherein_o themselves_o be_v ignorant_a or_o at_o the_o most_o scholar_n now_o therefore_o since_o in_o our_o case_n there_o be_v no_o mean_n for_o any_o man_n to_o prevail_v against_o the_o clergy_n who_o we_o suppose_v agree_v among_o then selue_o in_o any_o point_n or_o position_n but_o by_o make_v the_o laiety_n judge_n thereof_o it_o be_v evident_a that_o it_o will_v be_v still_o against_o reason_n for_o any_o man_n to_o attempt_v the_o innovate_a of_o any_o new_a point_n or_o position_n against_o the_o clergie_n common_a verdict_n and_o general_a consent_n and_o consequent_o a_o obligation_n of_o reason_n and_o conscience_n not_o to_o do_v it_o hence_o it_o follow_v we_o that_o there_o be_v a_o power_n and_o authority_n in_o the_o clergy_n of_o determine_v and_o decide_v question_n of_o christian_a doctrine_n whereof_o they_o be_v the_o teacher_n and_o a_o necessity_n in_o the_o laiety_n who_o be_v their_o scholar_n of_o obey_v and_o quiet_v themselves_o for_o the_o nature_n of_o sedition_n and_o faction_n be_v nothing_o else_o sedition_n what_o be_v sedition_n but_o to_o remove_v the_o question_n from_o they_o who_o true_o have_v or_o by_o their_o place_n be_v suppose_v to_o have_v skill_n to_o they_o who_o have_v or_o may_v be_v presume_v to_o have_v none_o that_o be_v from_o the_o governor_n to_o the_o subject_n from_o the_o skilful_a to_o the_o ignorant_a and_o from_o native_n to_o alien_n second_o it_o follow_v we_o judgement_n nothing_o but_o evidence_n be_v a_o law_fw-fr full_a warrant_n to_o opoose_v judgement_n that_o there_o can_v be_v but_o two_o case_n only_o in_o which_o one_o may_v oppose_v these_o determieation_n and_o decision_n for_o it_o be_v manifest_a that_o nothing_o but_o evidence_n of_o the_o truth_n can_v justify_v any_o
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christ_n or_o any_o reverence_n to_o their_o fore_a father_n or_o present_a government_n the_o ready_a way_n and_o common_a maxim_n of_o all_o sedition_n and_o rebellion_n in_o what_o community_n or_o common_a wealth_n soever_o either_o spiritual_a or_o temporal_a which_o we_o see_v do_v ordinary_o follow_v when_o such_o archi-revolters_a begin_v to_o feel_v ●heir_a party_n strong_a nephew_n this_o your_o last_o consequence_n touche_n i_o think_v a_o point_n which_o i_o have_v a_o great_a desire_n to_o hear_v well_o discuss_v to_o wit_n of_o the_o pope_n authority_n which_o you_o know_v our_o protestant_n pretend_v to_o be_v a_o great_a inconvenience_n in_o all_o political_a government_n vncle._n the_o old_a phrase_n permitte'_v not_o the_o shoemaker_n to_o judge_v of_o any_o thing_n above_o the_o shoe_n nor_o be_o i_o willing_a to_o meddle_v in_o this_o point_n or_o determine_v what_o be_v convenient_a or_o inconvenient_a of_o the_o pope_n authority_n in_o respect_n of_o secular_a 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apostle_n have_v leave_v to_o all_o church_n the_o book_n itself_o it_o be_v likely_a therefore_o that_o the_o old_a testament_n be_v bring_v in_o by_o the_o first_o christian_n '_o of_o the_o circuncision_n who_o accept_v of_o those_o book_n which_o they_o see_v the_o apostle_n honour_n and_o make_v use_n of_o and_o from_o they_o it_o come_v to_o the_o gentle_a christian_n and_o so_o by_o little_a and_o little_o be_v accept_v of_o by_o all_o the_o christian_a church_n with_o the_o same_o veneration_n that_o the_o apostle_n and_o jewish_a christian_n give_v unto_o it_o but_o how_o soever_o shall_v we_o not_o think_v at_o least_o §._o 3_o that_o tradition_n for_o scripture_n be_v more_o universal_a than_o tradition_n for_o doctrine_n nephew_n sure_o uncle_n for_o my_o part_n i_o can_v think_v but_o that_o the_o scripture_n have_v a_o more_o universal_a tradition_n they_o any_o point_n of_o christian_a doctrine_n or_o at_o least_o than_o any_o of_o those_o which_o be_v dispute_v 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edition_n in_o latin_a be_v command_v to_o be_v hold_v among_o us._n for_o i_o easy_o see_v that_o if_o any_o one_o sentence_n may_v be_v quarrel_v every_o one_o will_v incur_v the_o same_o hazard_n all_o be_v equa_o deliver_v and_o equa_o warrant_v with_o reason_n and_o authority_n vncle._n you_o say_v very_o well_o for_o where_o there_o be_v no_o less_o they_o the_o soul_n of_o the_o whole_a world_n at_o the_o stake_n i_o see_v not_o what_o advantage_n can_v give_v sufficient_a security_n if_o there_o remain_v any_o notable_a uncertainty_n our_o saviour_n say_v what_o can_v all_o the_o world_n avail_v any_o man_n if_o he_o lose_v his_o soul_n so_o that_o where_o the_o question_n be_v soul_n or_o no_o soul_n salvation_n or_o damnation_n nothing_o less_o than_o certainty_n can_v serve_v to_o proceed_v upon_o and_o therefore_o no_o doubt_n but_o if_o the_o apostle_n have_v intend_v to_o leave_v the_o holy_a write_v for_o the_o decider_n of_o controversy_n in_o religion_n they_o will_v 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