Selected quad for the lemma: ground_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
ground_n	church_n	faith_n	truth_n	4,940	5	6.2410	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A59903	A vindication of the Brief discourse concerning the notes of the church in answer to a late pamphlet entituled, The use and great moment of the notes of the church, as delivered by Cardinal Bellarmin, De notis ecclesiae, justified ...; De notis ecclesiae	Sherlock, William, 1641?-1707.	1687 (1687)	Wing S3374; ESTC R18869	41,299	72

like_o it_o they_o i_o confess_v will_v be_v in_o danger_n of_o a_o very_a fatal_a stumble_v if_o they_o stumble_v either_o upon_o scripture_n or_o antiquity_n but_o we_o dare_v venture_v both_o let_v they_o but_o grant_v that_o true_a faith_n be_v the_o note_n of_o a_o true_a church_n and_o we_o will_v refer_v the_o trial_n of_o our_o faith_n to_o scripture_n and_o antiquity_n when_o they_o please_v though_o cardinal_n bellarmin_n have_v so_o much_o wit_n as_o not_o to_o refer_v the_o trial_n of_o the_o church_n faith_n to_o scripture_n i_o add_v that_o when_o we_o give_v note_n which_o belong_v to_o a_o whole_a species_n as_o we_o must_v do_v when_o we_o give_v the_o note_n of_o a_o true_a christian_a church_n we_o must_v give_v such_o note_n as_o belong_v to_o the_o whole_a kind_n that_o be_v to_o all_o true_a christian_a church_n and_o though_o these_o note_n be_v common_a indeed_o to_o all_o true_a christian_a church_n yet_o they_o be_v proper_a and_o peculiar_a to_o a_o true_a christian_a church_n as_o the_o essential_a property_n of_o a_o man_n be_v common_a to_o all_o man_n but_o proper_a to_o mankind_n and_o this_o be_v necessary_a to_o make_v they_o true_a note_n for_o such_o note_n of_o a_o church_n as_o do_v not_o fit_v all_o true_a church_n can_v be_v true_a note_n but_o this_o which_o be_v the_o true_a answer_n to_o bellarmine_n argument_n he_o wise_o drop_v as_o for_o what_o the_o cardinal_n urge_v that_o all_o sort_n of_o christian_n think_v themselves_o to_o have_v the_o true_a faith_n and_o true_a sacrament_n i_o answer_v i_o be_o apt_a to_o think_v they_o do_v but_o what_o then_o if_o they_o have_v not_o the_o true_a faith_n and_o true_a sacrament_n they_o be_v not_o true_a church_n whatever_o they_o think_v of_o it_o and_o yet_o the_o true_a faith_n and_o true_a sacrament_n 9_o be_v certain_a note_n of_o the_o true_a church_n a_o purchase_n upon_o a_o bad_a title_n which_o a_o man_n think_v a_o good_a one_o be_v not_o a_o good_a estate_n but_o yet_o a_o purchase_n upon_o a_o title_n which_o be_v not_o only_o think_v to_o be_v but_o be_v a_o good_a one_o be_v a_o good_a estate_n to_o this_o he_o answer_v this_o be_v the_o same_o error_n again_o for_o a_o good_a title_n i_o hope_v be_v essential_a it_o be_v no_o note_n of_o a_o good_a estate_n oh_o the_o wit_n of_o some_o disputer_n what_o other_o note_n be_v there_o of_o a_o good_a estate_n but_o a_o good_a title_n but_o he_o say_v there_o be_v other_o note_n which_o lead_v to_o the_o discovery_n of_o a_o good_a title_n what_o then_o they_o be_v the_o note_n of_o the_o title_n not_o of_o the_o estate_n they_o prove_v a_o good_a title_n and_o a_o good_a title_n make_v a_o good_a estate_n and_o yet_o that_o the_o land_n be_v not_o praeengage_v be_v free_a from_o all_o encumbrance_n that_o there_o be_v no_o flaw_n in_o the_o demise_n i_o take_v to_o be_v essential_a to_o a_o good_a title_n and_o therefore_o according_a to_o our_o author_n logic_n can_v be_v note_n neither_o but_o what_o be_v all_o this_o to_o the_o purpose_n bellarmin_n prove_v that_o the_o true_a faith_n can_v be_v the_o note_n of_o a_o true_a church_n because_o all_o sect_n of_o christian_n pretend_v to_o it_o i_o answer_v that_o though_o those_o who_o pretend_v to_o the_o true_a faith_n and_o have_v it_o not_o be_v not_o true_a church_n yet_o those_o who_o have_v the_o true_a faith_n be_v true_a church_n as_o a_o purchase_n upon_o a_o bad_a title_n which_o a_o man_n think_v a_o good_a one_o be_v not_o a_o good_a estate_n but_o yet_o a_o purchase_n upon_o a_o good_a title_n be_v a_o good_a estate_n to_o this_o the_o justifier_n of_o bellarmin_n answer_n that_o a_o good_a title_n be_v essential_a and_o therefore_o be_v no_o note_n of_o a_o good_a estate_n whereas_o the_o dispute_v here_o be_v not_o about_o essential_a or_o extraessential_a note_n but_o whether_o the_o true_a faith_n can_v be_v a_o note_n of_o the_o true_a church_n because_o some_o man_n pretend_v to_o the_o true_a faith_n who_o have_v it_o not_o but_o want_v of_o understanding_n be_v necessary_a to_o make_v some_o man_n answerer_n of_o book_n which_o man_n of_o understanding_n know_v they_o can_v answer_v the_o cardinal_n be_v second_o objection_n against_o the_o protestant_a note_n of_o a_o church_n be_v that_o the_o note_n of_o any_o thing_n 9_o must_v be_v more_o know_v than_o the_o thing_n itself_o this_o i_o grant_v now_o say_v he_o which_o be_v the_o true_a church_n be_v more_o knowable_a than_o which_o be_v the_o true_a faith_n and_o this_o i_o deny_v for_o this_o plain_a reason_n because_o the_o true_a church_n can_v be_v know_v without_o know_v the_o true_a faith_n for_o no_o church_n be_v a_o true_a church_n which_o do_v not_o profess_v the_o true_a faith._n now_o say_v our_o answerer_n this_o be_v deny_v we_o prove_v it_o thus_o etc._n etc._n pag._n 15._o but_o methinks_v he_o shall_v first_o have_v answer_v the_o argument_n before_o he_o have_v go_v to_o prove_v but_o that_o it_o seem_v be_v not_o his_o talon_n well_o but_o how_o do_v he_o prove_v that_o the_o true_a church_n may_v be_v know_v before_o we_o know_v the_o true_a faith_n admirable_o i_o assure_v you_o if_o the_o church_n be_v the_o pillar_n of_o truth_n raise_v up_o aloft_o that_o it_o may_v be_v conspicuous_a to_o all_o man_n it_o must_v be_v more_o manifest_a than_o the_o truth_n this_o pillar_n raise_v aloft_o be_v a_o new_a notion_n which_o i_o suppose_v he_o learn_v from_o the_o monument_n at_o london-bridg_n which_o indeed_o be_v very_o visible_a but_o other_o wise_a writer_n by_o the_o pillar_n and_o ground_n of_o truth_n prove_v that_o the_o church_n be_v the_o foundation_n whereon_o truth_n be_v build_v but_o that_o will_v not_o serve_v his_o purpose_n to_o make_v the_o church_n more_o visible_a than_o the_o truth_n for_o he_o know_v that_o the_o foundation_n be_v not_o so_o visible_a as_o that_o which_o be_v build_v on_o it_o and_o in_o the_o next_o page_n he_o honest_o confess_v that_o the_o true_a faith_n be_v the_o foundation_n of_o the_o church_n and_o therefore_o prove_v that_o the_o true_a church_n can_v be_v know_v by_o the_o true_a faith_n for_o that_o be_v as_o if_o i_o shall_v say_v i_o can_v know_v the_o house_n unless_o i_o see_v the_o foundation_n the_o next_o way_n to_o overturn_v it_o so_o dangerous_a a_o thing_n be_v metaphor_n which_o prove_v backward_o and_o forward_o as_o a_o man_n fancy_n but_o let_v the_o church_n be_v a_o pillar_n raise_v aloft_o or_o a_o foundation-pillar_n or_o what_o pillar_n he_o please_v must_v not_o we_o know_v the_o church_n before_o we_o know_v it_o to_o be_v a_o pillar_n of_o truth_n or_o can_v we_o know_v which_o church_n be_v the_o pillar_n of_o truth_n before_o we_o know_v what_o truth_n be_v well!_o but_o let_v we_o now_o look_v to_o ourselves_o for_o he_o undertake_v to_o demonstrate_v it_o the_o fruit_n of_o the_o spirit_n the_o grace_n be_v more_o know_v than_o the_o spirit_n itself_o ergo_fw-la the_o true_a church_n must_v be_v know_v before_o the_o true_a faith._n the_o outward_a profession_n of_o faith_n more_o than_o the_o inward_a profession_n ergo_fw-la the_o true_a church_n must_v be_v know_v before_o the_o outward_a profession_n of_o the_o true_a faith_n which_o make_v a_o true_a church_n the_o concrete_a more_o than_o the_o abstract_n the_o believer_n than_o the_o belief_n i_o can_v know_v the_o man_n before_o i_o know_v their_o faith_n ergo_fw-la the_o true_a church_n must_v be_v know_v before_o the_o true_a faith._n he_o be_v a_o very_a hard-hearted_a man_n who_o will_v not_o allow_v this_o for_o demonstration_n but_o he_o be_v a_o very_a good-natured_a man_n who_o will_v allow_v it_o to_o be_v sense_n well!_o but_o he_o have_v a_o distinction_n that_o will_v do_v the_o business_n aliud_fw-la notius_fw-la nobis_fw-la &_o aliud_fw-la natura_fw-la i._n e._n some_o thing_n be_v more_o knowable_a in_o themselves_o and_o some_o thing_n be_v more_o knowable_a to_o we_o but_o we_o be_v inquire_v which_o be_v most_o knowable_a to_o we_o the_o true_a faith_n or_o the_o true_a church_n he_o grant_v then_o that_o true_a faith_n be_v a_o constituent_a of_o or_o essential_a to_o the_o church_n may_v be_v say_v to_o be_v naturâ_fw-la notior_fw-la first_o know_v in_o the_o order_n of_o nature_n but_o we_o will_v not_o have_v these_o method_n confound_v for_o if_o faith_n be_v essential_a it_o be_v the_o less_o know_v to_o we_o for_o that_o very_a reason_n because_o the_o first_o constituent_n of_o a_o compound_v be_v last_v know_v except_o to_o the_o maker_n it_o be_v more_o manifest_a to_o we_o that_o we_o be_v flesh_n and_o blood_n though_o god_n know_v that_o we_o be_v dust_n and_o ash_n how_o happy_a be_v the_o

the_o scripture_n if_o they_o be_v why_o can_v a_o honest_a and_o diligent_a reader_n understand_v that_o which_o be_v intelligible_a that_o all_o man_n do_v not_o agree_v about_o the_o sense_n of_o scripture_n in_o all_o point_n be_v no_o better_a argument_n to_o prove_v that_o the_o scripture_n be_v not_o intelligible_a than_o that_o reason_n itself_o be_v not_o intelligible_a for_o all_o man_n do_v not_o agree_v about_o that_o neither_o well_o but_o he_o will_v allow_v that_o honest_a reader_n may_v arrive_v to_o the_o understanding_n of_o that_o part_n of_o scripture_n which_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n suggest_v that_o we_o must_v not_o steal_v defraud_n we_o must_v do_v as_o we_o will_v be_v do_v by_o p._n 19_o but_o he_o little_o think_v what_o he_o have_v do_v in_o grant_v this_o for_o then_o if_o the_o church_n shall_v expound_v scripture_n against_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n honest_a reader_n may_v understand_v the_o scripture_n otherwise_o and_o if_o the_o church_n shall_v be_v find_v trip_v in_o such_o matter_n honest_a reader_n may_v be_v apt_a to_o question_v her_o infallibility_n in_o other_o case_n for_o those_o who_o once_o mistake_v can_v never_o be_v insallible_a and_o yet_o this_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v a_o great_a many_o shrewd_a thing_n and_o the_o scripture_n teach_v they_o too_o and_o therefore_o in_o these_o matter_n honest_a and_o diligent_a reader_n may_v understand_v the_o scripture_n though_o it_o be_v against_o the_o exposition_n of_o the_o church_n as_o that_o divine_a worship_n must_v be_v give_v to_o none_o but_o god_n that_o god_n who_o be_v a_o invisible_a spirit_n must_v not_o be_v worship_v by_o material_a and_o visible_a image_n that_o public_a prayer_n ought_v to_o be_v in_o a_o language_n which_o be_v understand_v by_o the_o people_n that_o marriage_n be_v honourable_a among_o all_o man_n that_o faith_n be_v to_o be_v keep_v with_o all_o man_n that_o every_o soul_n must_v be_v subject_a to_o the_o high_a power_n that_o none_o can_v judicial_o forgive_v sin_n but_o only_o god_n that_o to_o forgive_v sin_n be_v not_o to_o punish_v it_o and_o therefore_o god_n do_v not_o punish_v for_o those_o sin_n which_o he_o have_v whole_o pardon_v and_o other_o such_o like_a thing_n be_v teach_v by_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n as_o well_o as_o scripture_n and_o we_o thank_v he_o hearty_o that_o he_o will_v give_v we_o leave_v to_o understand_v these_o thing_n but_o he_o proceed_v it_o be_v the_o revelation_n part_n the_o mysterious_a part_n which_o be_v proper_o call_v the_o holy_a scripture_n which_o be_v not_o so_o perspicuous_a what_o be_v not_o the_o word_n perspicuous_a and_o intelligible_a to_o what_o purpose_n then_o be_v they_o write_v or_o be_v it_o the_o thing_n which_o be_v above_o our_o comprehension_n but_o that_o do_v not_o hinder_v but_o we_o may_v understand_v what_o the_o scripture_n teach_v though_o we_o do_v not_o full_o comprehend_v it_o for_o i_o will_v know_v whether_o they_o full_o comprehend_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o holy_a trinity_n and_o incarnation_n the_o nature_n and_o person_n of_o christ_n which_o be_v the_o subject_a of_o the_o arian_n nestorian_a and_o eutychian_a heresy_n when_o the_o church_n teach_v these_o thing_n i_o suppose_v they_o will_v not_o say_v they_o do_v and_o yet_o they_o will_v own_v that_o they_o can_v understand_v what_o the_o church_n teach_v about_o they_o and_o then_o though_o they_o can_v comprehend_v these_o mystery_n yet_o they_o may_v as_o well_o understand_v what_o the_o scripture_n as_o what_o the_o church_n teach_v about_o they_o now_o say_v our_o author_n to_o say_v the_o scripture_n be_v plain_a to_o every_o honest_a private_a reader_n in_o these_o arcana_fw-la be_v to_o deny_v and_o cassate_fw-it all_fw-mi church_n history_n make_v ecumenical_a council_n ridiculous_a run_v down_o all_o synod_n and_o convocation_n that_o ever_o be_v or_o shall_v be_v why_o so_o i_o pray_v do_v church-history_n or_o ecumenical_a council_n all_o convocation_n and_o synod_n declare_v that_o the_o scripture_n be_v not_o intelligible_a in_o these_o matter_n or_o that_o a_o private_a honest_a diligent_a reader_n can_v understand_v they_o how_o come_v they_o then_o to_o determine_v they_o for_o article_n of_o faith_n by_o their_o own_o authority_n or_o by_o the_o authority_n of_o scripture_n shall_v synod_n and_o convocation_n and_o ecumenical_a council_n determine_v that_o for_o a_o article_n of_o faith_n which_o be_v not_o plain_a and_o intelligible_a in_o scripture_n they_o be_v ridiculous_a indeed_o and_o there_o be_v a_o end_n of_o their_o authority_n and_o here_o he_o appeal_v to_o the_o testimony_n produce_v by_o the_o cardinal_n out_o of_o irenoeus_n tertullian_n and_o st._n augustin_n which_o have_v be_v so_o often_o answer_v already_o that_o i_o do_v not_o think_v it_o worth_a the_o while_n to_o engage_v with_o this_o answerer_n about_o they_o let_v the_o reader_n if_o he_o please_v consult_v some_o late_a book_n to_o this_o purpose_n as_o that_o learned_a vindication_n of_o the_o answer_n to_o the_o royal_a paper_n about_o church_n authority_n and_o the_o pillar_n and_o ground_n of_o truth_n but_o i_o can_v pass_v on_o without_o take_v notice_n of_o his_o unanswerable_a argument_n to_o prove_v that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n understand_v st._n paul_n paul_n be_v epistie_a to_o the_o roman_n and_o by_o consequence_n the_o article_n of_o justification_n whether_o by_o faith_n alone_o or_o work_n better_a than_o all_o the_o lay-reader_n of_o the_o reformation_n viz._n because_o he_o can_v never_o be_v persuade_v that_o any_o private_a man_n shall_v understand_v a_o epistle_n of_o st_n paul_n better_a than_o the_o church_n to_o which_o it_o be_v write_v how_o unworthy_a be_v it_o to_o opine_n the_o contrary_a and_o how_o silly_a be_v it_o to_o think_v that_o those_o must_v necessary_o understand_v a_o epistle_n best_o to_o who_o it_o be_v write_v but_o if_o those_o christian_n at_o rome_n to_o who_o st._n paul_n write_v for_o he_o take_v no_o notice_n of_o any_o form_v and_o settle_a church_n there_o at_o the_o write_n of_o his_o epistle_n and_o therefore_o do_v not_o direct_v it_o to_o the_o church_n as_o he_o do_v in_o other_o epistle_n but_o to_o the_o saint_n that_o be_v at_o rome_n i_o say_v if_o those_o christian_n may_v be_v suppose_v at_o that_o time_n when_o the_o state_n of_o the_o controversy_n among_o they_o be_v general_o know_v to_o understand_v this_o epistle_n better_o than_o we_o can_v now_o yet_o what_o be_v this_o to_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n at_o sixteen_o hundred_o year_n distance_n however_o by_o this_o rule_n we_o may_v understand_v all_o st._n paul_n other_o epistle_n as_o well_o as_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o that_o will_v serve_v our_o purpose_n and_o yet_o methinks_v if_o the_o church_n to_o which_o the_o epistle_n be_v send_v be_v the_o only_a authentic_a expositor_n of_o such_o epistle_n all_o those_o church_n to_o who_o st._n paul_n write_v shall_v have_v be_v preserve_v to_o this_o day_n to_o have_v expound_v those_o epistle_n to_o we_o and_o yet_o not_o one_o of_o they_o be_v now_o in_o be_v except_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o therefore_o at_o least_o we_o must_v make_v what_o shift_n we_o can_v to_o expound_v they_o ourselves_o for_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n can_v pretend_v no_o great_a right_n in_o they_o than_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o thus_o i_o come_v in_o the_o second_o place_n to_o consider_v the_o cardinal_n use_v of_o note_n and_o find_v several_a fault_n with_o they_o 1._o that_o he_o give_v note_n to_o find_v out_o which_o be_v the_o true_a church_n before_o we_o know_v what_o a_o true_a church_n be_v whereas_o 13._o there_o be_v two_o inquiry_n in_o order_n of_o nature_n before_o this_o viz._n whether_o there_o be_v a_o true_a church_n or_o not_o and_o what_o it_o be_v and_o though_o the_o cardinal_n take_v it_o for_o grant_v that_o there_o be_v a_o church_n i_o demand_v a_o proof_n of_o it_o that_o they_o will_v give_v i_o some_o note_n whereby_o to_o prove_v that_o there_o be_v a_o true_a church_n this_o demand_n amaze_v our_o answerer_n and_o make_v he_o cross_v himself_o and_o fall_v to_o his_o bead_n hear_v o_o heaven_n and_o give_v ear_n o_o earth_n but_o this_o be_v a_o devil_n that_o will_v be_v conjure_v down_o let_v he_o either_o give_v i_o some_o note_n to_o prove_v that_o there_o be_v a_o church_n or_o tell_v i_o how_o i_o shall_v know_v it_o yes_o that_o he_o will_v do_v for_o it_o be_v self-evident_a he_o say_v that_o there_o be_v a_o church_n p._n 20._o as_o it_o be_v that_o there_o be_v a_o sun_n in_o the_o firmament_n or_o else_o the_o heathen_n can_v never_o see_v it_o but_o what_o do_v the_o heathen_n see_v a_o christian_a church_n do_v they_o then_o believe_v the_o holy_a catholic_n church_n why_o then_o

be_v peculiar_a to_o it_o but_o as_o for_o what_o he_o say_v that_o succession_n of_o doctrine_n without_o succession_n of_o office_n be_v a_o poor_a plea._n i_o must_v needs_o tell_v he_o i_o think_v it_o be_v a_o much_o better_a plea_n than_o succession_n of_o office_n without_o succession_n of_o doctrine_n for_o i_o be_o sure_a that_o be_v not_o a_o safe_a communion_n where_o there_o be_v not_o a_o succession_n of_o apostolical_a doctrine_n but_o whether_o the_o want_n of_o a_o succession_n of_o bishop_n will_v in_o all_o case_n unchurch_n will_v admit_v of_o a_o great_a dispute_n i_o be_o sure_a a_o true_a faith_n in_o christ_n with_o a_o true_a gospel_n conversation_n will_v save_v man_n and_o some_o learned_a romanist_n defend_v that_o old_a definition_n of_o the_o church_n that_o it_o be_v caetus_fw-la gatinaeo_n fidelium_fw-la the_o company_n of_o the_o faithful_a and_o will_v not_o admit_v bishop_n or_o pastor_n into_o the_o definition_n of_o a_o church_n his_o seven_o note_n i_o own_o be_v home_o to_o his_o purpose_n that_o that_o be_v the_o only_a true_a church_n which_o be_v unite_v to_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n as_o to_o its_o head._n if_o he_o can_v prove_v this_o it_o must_v do_v his_o business_n without_o any_o other_o note_n but_o it_o be_v like_o the_o confidence_n of_o a_o jesuit_n to_o make_v that_o the_o note_n of_o the_o church_n which_o be_v the_o chief_a subject_n of_o the_o dispute_n very_o well_o say_v our_o answerer_n so_o irenaeus_n so_o st._n cyprian_n st._n ambrose_n st._n hierom_n optatus_n st._n austin_n be_v answer_v for_o none_o of_o these_o can_v turn_v the_o scale_n nor_o do_v any_o of_o these_o father_n ever_o say_v that_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n be_v the_o head_n of_o the_o church_n this_o be_v the_o dispute_n still_o and_o will_v be_v the_o dispute_n till_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n quit_v she_o absurd_a claim_n to_o it_o but_o he_o say_v we_o of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n shall_v consider_v that_o not_o above_o 100_o year_n ago_o we_o communicate_v with_o the_o apostolic_a see._n and_o do_v that_o make_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n the_o head_n of_o the_o church_n but_o have_v we_o ground_n enough_o for_o such_o a_o breach_n as_o we_o have_v make_v it_o be_v ground_n enough_o sure_a to_o renounce_v our_o subjection_n to_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n if_o he_o have_v no_o right_a to_o claim_v it_o but_o transubstantiation_n and_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n and_o address_n to_o saint_n he_o think_v very_o harmless_a thing_n but_o the_o mischief_n be_v we_o do_v no_o think_v they_o so_o but_o this_o be_v not_o a_o place_n to_o dispute_v these_o matter_n his_o first_o note_n concern_v the_o name_n catholic_n i_o observe_v make_v every_o church_n a_o catholic_n church_n which_o will_v call_v itself_o so_o and_o here_o he_o learned_o dispute_v about_o some_o indelible_a name_n which_o the_o providence_n of_o god_n order_n to_o be_v so_o for_o great_a ends._n st._n paul_n direct_v his_o epistle_n to_o the_o roman_n i._n e._n he_o hope_v to_o the_o roman_a catholic_n p._n 34._o but_o a_o roman_n catholic_n be_v a_o unknown_a name_n in_o those_o day_n and_o many_o age_n after_o but_o at_o that_o time_n the_o world_n in_o the_o apostle_n phrase_n be_v in_o communion_n with_o she_o where_o have_v the_o apostle_n any_o such_o phrase_n and_o yet_o we_o be_v now_o a_o dispute_v not_o about_o catholic_n communion_n but_o about_o the_o name_n roman_n catholic_n church_n whereas_o it_o do_v not_o appear_v that_o the_o roman_n have_v at_o that_o time_n so_o much_o as_o the_o name_n of_o the_o church_n as_o i_o observe_v before_o and_o the_o very_a name_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n can_v be_v prove_v so_o ancient_a as_o that_o time_n and_o her_o faith_n be_v speak_v of_o which_o he_o interpret_v her_o be_v admire_v throughout_o the_o whole_a world_n whatever_o it_o prove_v do_v not_o prove_v that_o she_o have_v then_o the_o name_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n he_o add_v it_o be_v not_o without_o something_o of_o god_n that_o she_o keep_v the_o name_n still_o but_o how_o do_v she_o keep_v it_o she_o will_v call_v herself_o catholic_n when_o no_o body_n else_o will_v allow_v she_o to_o be_v so_o and_o thus_o any_o church_n may_v keep_v this_o name_n which_o do_v original_o belong_v to_o all_o true_a orthodox_n church_n as_o for_o heretic_n they_o have_v challenge_v the_o name_n and_o keep_v it_o too_o among_o themselves_o as_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n do_v though_o it_o belong_v no_o more_o to_o they_o than_o it_o do_v to_o she_o his_o other_o indelible_a name_n of_o time_n and_o place_n he_o may_v make_v the_o best_a of_o he_o can_v but_o let_v all_o concern_v in_o blackfriars_a and_o austin-friars-_a and_o the_o house_n of_o chartreux_n which_o have_v so_o miraculous_o preserve_v its_o name_n look_v to_o it_o for_o he_o seem_v to_o hope_v that_o these_o indelible_a name_n be_v preserve_v for_o some_o good_a purpose_n i_o add_v the_o name_n catholic_n do_v not_o declare_v what_o a_o church_n be_v but_o in_o what_o communion_n it_o be_v and_o be_v no_o 17._o note_n of_o a_o true_a church_n unless_o it_o be_v first_o prove_v that_o they_o be_v true_a church_n which_o be_v in_o communion_n with_o each_o other_o for_o if_o three_o part_n in_o four_o of_o all_o the_o church_n in_o the_o world_n be_v very_o corrupt_a and_o degenerate_a in_o faith_n and_o worship_n and_o be_v in_o one_o communion_n this_o will_v be_v the_o most_o catholic_n communion_n as_o catholic_n signify_v the_o most_o general_a and_o universal_a but_o yet_o the_o four_o part_n which_o be_v sincere_a will_v be_v the_o best_a and_o true_a church_n and_o the_o catholic_n church_n as_o that_o signify_v the_o communion_n of_o all_o orthodox_n and_o pure_a church_n this_o distinction_n of_o catholic_n our_o answerer_n like_v well_o and_o say_v it_o do_v not_o hurt_v they_o for_o that_o case_n be_v yet_o to_o come_v viz._n that_o the_o most_o corrupt_a communion_n shall_v be_v most_o catholic_n or_o universal_a but_o that_o be_v not_o the_o force_n of_o the_o argument_n nor_o any_o part_n of_o it_o though_o it_o may_v be_v it_o be_v too_o true_a but_o the_o argument_n be_v this_o that_o the_o bare_a name_n of_o catholic_n can_v prove_v a_o church_n to_o be_v a_o true_a church_n because_o that_o do_v not_o relate_v to_o its_o nature_n and_o essence_n but_o to_o its_o communion_n now_o catholic_n communion_n signify_v either_o the_o most_o universal_a communion_n or_o the_o communion_n only_o of_o pure_a and_o orthodox_n church_n be_v their_o number_n more_o or_o less_o if_o we_o take_v it_o in_o the_o first_o sense_n the_o most_o catholic_n communion_n may_v be_v the_o most_o corrupt_a for_o it_o may_v so_o happen_v that_o the_o great_a number_n of_o church_n which_o be_v in_o communion_n with_o each_o other_o may_v be_v very_o corrupt_a if_o we_o take_v it_o in_o the_o second_o sense_n we_o must_v first_o know_v whether_o those_o church_n be_v pure_a and_o orthodox_n before_o we_o can_v tell_v whether_o they_o be_v catholic_n church_n and_o therefore_o in_o both_o sense_n the_o bare_a name_n of_o catholic_n can_v prove_v a_o church_n to_o be_v a_o true_a church_n for_o we_o must_v first_o know_v whether_o they_o be_v true_a as_o that_o signify_v pure_a and_o orthodox_n church_n before_o we_o can_v know_v whether_o they_o be_v catholic_n but_o he_o say_v it_o be_v not_o probable_a that_o god_n will_v spread_v such_o a_o temptation_n and_o stumbling-block_n before_o his_o own_o people_n yet_o if_o he_o shall_v for_o example_n sake_n have_v suffer_v lutheranism_n or_o cranmerism_n to_o have_v spread_v to_o such_o a_o measure_n the_o palpableness_n of_o the_o schism_n will_v have_v be_v security_n perhaps_o sufficient_a to_o keep_v all_o prudent_a person_n where_o they_o be_v this_o be_v nothing_o to_o the_o present_a argument_n as_o indeed_o it_o will_v be_v surprise_v to_o find_v he_o say_v any_o thing_n to_o the_o purpose_n but_o yet_o if_o the_o most_o catholic_n communion_n as_o that_o signify_v the_o most_o universal_a though_o the_o note_n do_v not_o refer_v to_o catholic_n communion_n but_o to_o the_o name_n catholic_n be_v a_o note_n of_o the_o true_a church_n it_o be_v not_o sufficient_a to_o say_v that_o it_o be_v probable_a that_o god_n will_v not_o suffer_v a_o corrupt_a communion_n to_o be_v the_o most_o universal_a but_o he_o must_v prove_v that_o god_n have_v promise_v this_o shall_v not_o be_v and_o if_o according_a to_o this_o supposition_n lutheranism_n or_o cranmerism_n have_v prevail_v three_o part_n in_o four_o over_o the_o church_n how_o can_v the_o palpableness_n of_o the_o schism_n secure_v his_o prudent_a man_n from_o the_o infection_n for_o if_o three_o part_n of_o the_o church_n be_v divide_v from_o the_o