Selected quad for the lemma: ground_n
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A27370
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A letter written by a minister for the satisfaction of a person doubting in religion shewn to be unsatisfactory.
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P. I., Minister.; T. B.; J. W.
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1686
(1686)
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Wing B185; ESTC R10043
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13,702
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41
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A LETTER Written by a MINISTER For the Satisfaction of a PERSON Doubting in RELIGION Shewn to be Unsatisfactory LONDON Printed by Henry Hills Printer to the King 's Most Excellent Majesty for His Houshold and Chappel 1686. TO THE READER I Know it will be expected by the Reader I should inform him what it was that occasion'd these following Papers J. W. a young man of Preston in Lancashire fell into some doubts about the main concern of his Soul Whether he had hitherto the right Faith or were in the true Church Mr. T. B. whose Parishioner he was us'd his best endeavours to disswade him from embracing the Catholic Communion For which I should not discommend him for it was precise duty in him in case he verily judg'd the Negatives in which Protestants differ from Catholics were True and that he had any solid Grounds for judging so Nay he offer'd too to dispute with any Roman-Catholic before him to settle his Doubts and give him satisfaction that the Protestant Religion was True which was a very fair Proffer had it been as candidly perform'd Whereupon I was invited to give him a meeting And when I came to make the Dispute short I began with the first Principle in Controversie The Rule of Faith I told him that all our Contest was summ'd up in this one Enquiry What it was that Christ and his Apostles taught and that if the Rule which was to acquaint us with that were not absolutely or infallibly Certain all our Faith must by consequence be Vncertain and might possibly be an Errour I alledg'd that all His Rule that grounded His Perswasions about what was Faith depended on Interpretations of Scripture made by himself or the Protestant Church both which being confessedly fallible or possible to be deceiv'd he might possibly that is perhaps was actually in an Errour as to all his Faith for ought he or they knew When I expected an Answer he stept to his Study and fetch 't down a great Book biding me read that and offering me to lend it I admir'd at this strange method of answering that instead of replying when he was prest by my Reasons he could think it a competent satisfaction to tell me he would lend me a Book to Read Whereupon I prest him for a positive Reply to my Discourse telling him that since he had now Preach't a Doctrine pretended to be Christ's so many years it was incredible he should not be able to give an account of his Faith and the Ground it was built on without the assistance of a Voluminous Book the tossing over which I saw was very convenient for him to avoid answering and to turn our Dispute into an endless Wrangling which was all he aym'd at but never to bring the point to any Issue He still insisting upon my Reading that huge Book I desir'd him to turn to any particular place in it which he would undertake gave an Answer to my former Discourse and I would be contented to excuse him and consider what it said But it would not be granted so that I saw plainly this was onely an invention to ward the blow from himself and let it fall upon another I prest him again to make out to us by Grounds of His he could be absolutely certain of any one point of Faith nay even that Christ was God He reply'd he believ'd it because it was in the Creed I could have told him the Socinians grant those words in the Creed and yet deny Christ to be truly God but I wav'd this and urg'd him to declare upon what inerrable Rule he believ'd what was contain'd in the Creed Vpon this to avoid answering he began the most disingenuous cavil that ever man heard and fell upon me as if I believ'd not the Creed my self whereas I onely prest him to show us by His Grounds or by any Rule of Faith proper to Protestants as they are distinct from Catholics how He could rationally believe even the Creed to be certain and know the certain sense of it since it's Letter is as liable to misconstructions as the Scripture is I could do no less than tell him how unhandsome this procedure was to put upon me without the least show of reason or common sense a thing that never yet was said or thought of any Roman Catholic in the World But he with much heat still insisted that I did disbelieve it because I urg'd him to show how by His Principles He did or could believe it and fell into a high passion Vpon which perceiving plainly that all this pother and dust was rais'd to get clear of disputing and despairing to bring him to give any account of his Faith even so much as pretending to show it to be as true Faith ought to be Infallibly certain I came away with the young man he having first declar'd before Mr. T. B's face that he was fully satisfi'd he could give no account of his Faith and consequently was not to be follow'd and upon this became a Catholic These things having past on in this manner here related as soon as I saw a Paper from him to the young man which here follows I durst have sworn it had been some Account of the Certainty of his Faith in regard that was still incumbent on him having been left in so great a passion about that Point at our last Interview But it seems it was too hard a morsel for his tender skill to nibble upon and instead of that other points though never so remote are fetcht in by head and shoulders to keep off that discourse How ill he handles these too will appear by the following Answer But all these diversions shall not serve his turn That is the point about which our Discourse was then 't is that which stuck on his side 't is that concerning which he yet owes satisfaction and consequently 't is that to which with all right and reason I must still demand an Answer and challenge him to run the Lists if he do not perform it P. I. Mr. T. B.'s PAPER To J. W. PRESTON Aug. 3. 1686. Poor Soul IT is now more than six Weeks since I observed your Apostatizing from our Church during which time I have not been remiss in praying for your Recovery and now think it seasonable by this short Paper to endeavour it The pretended cause is you cannot obtain satisfaction among us about those two points Transubstantiation and Purgatory but mostly the former Your Soul being in my opinion in great danger by the course you take I could not with any quiet see you so expose your self and wished that you might rather bestow your thoughts on what more immediately touched you and was more suited to your Capacity But seeing it verified in you which is in most persons that you are most busie about what least concerns you and nothing pleaseth your Fancy but what flies above your Understanding I purposed to let you know my thoughts even in the remote
glimmering hope of your Conversion For in case there be in the Sacrament something more than a Sign as you seem here to acknowledge is your true Tenet you must say the thing signify'd is there too and so we are good Friends But because this unexpected Confession of yours like the first New in a Gazette needs a Confirmation I beseech you to satisfie me clearly what this Thing is in the Sacrament which is more or more than a Sign This way of questioning is the worst way of explaining in the world though it be a special stratagem to avoid Confute Your Proposals that follow are very Extraordinary I little thought that when you had done Catechizing me you would put me to Swearing nor that when I expected Arguments from another I should be forced to take my Oath my self that my Faith is true But that you may have no cause to complain I will gratifie you in that too and do here frankly declare without any Equivocation which I abhor in an Oath that I do renounce all my hopes of Heaven which is more than you put me to provided there be no fault in the matter nor in the Priest if there be not present in the Sacrament after the words of Consecration Christ's very true Body which was born of the Virgin suffer'd on the Cross was buried arose and now sits at God's right hand and this by the Conversion of the whole Substance of the Bread into his Body as also of the Wine into his Bloud the Species onely of Bread and Wine remaining as is declared in the Council of Trent Sess 13. Can. 2. But now Sir having done this take notice that I must in requital challenge from you the same deep Protestation that your Negative Faith or Opinion is True If you refuse since your exacting it of me has made it decent equitable and just you are convinced to be a very ill man and to doubt of the Faith you profess to hold your self and propose to others as the way to Salvation And if you do it yet acknowledge your own Interpretations of Scripture and your Churches too which grounds all your Faith to be Fallible you are one of the boldest and rashest Swearers that ever called himself a Christian and in either case must lose your credit for ever with your Flock and Auditory But that we may draw to a Conclusion I beseech you Sir if you have any more to say to me let 's have no more of this trifling Consider what you are about you are about Controversie whose work it is to settle Christian Faith upon certain Grounds and since you profess your Faith to have been taught by Christ this is requir'd of your if you have any such Faith to settle or Grounds to settle it on Go to work like a Scholar and do not thus expose your self for Children to laugh at Lay your Principles first then draw your Consequences warrant them rightly deduc'd and bring them to the Conclusion or the Position that is contradictory to your Adversaries Tenet 'T is manly to affirm confidently what one holds heartily 't is becoming a Man to argue against your Adversary smartly and not to spare him but 't is the height of ridiculousness to task him only with Questions and putting him to make sacred Protestations instead of combating him with your Reasons Whenas you knew well enough before-hand what he holds and what he would Answer One thing I must needs re-mind you of at parting because I fear you will be apt to forget it which is that you bear in memory the Oath you owe me that your Tenets are True that is That Christ's True Body is not in the Sacrament That there is no Third or Middle State called Purgatory no Transubstantiation c. Then to uphold the Opinion of your Sincerity let us know what Certain Grounds you confide in to secure you from being Perjur'd The taking this Test may qualifie you in time for some great Office for if your Fallible Principles will justifie your Honesty in taking such an Oath I do not know what you may not be fit for next FINIS