it_o be_v so_o still_o for_o as_o hebrew_n greek_a and_o latin_a be_v then_o the_o most_o know_a tongue_n in_o which_o only_a the_o scripture_n be_v write_v and_o public_o read_v so_o the_o same_o language_n be_v still_o use_v partly_o because_o they_o be_v sacred_a and_o partly_o because_o they_o be_v most_o know_v what_o then_o make_v that_o against_o our_o latin_a mass_n or_o rather_o be_v it_o not_o a_o proof_n of_o our_o antiquity_n and_o disproof_n of_o his_o novelty_n against_o image-worship_n he_o talk_v of_o the_o 2._o commandment_n and_o the_o hate_n of_o the_o jew_n against_o image_n he_o bring_v the_o testimony_n of_o some_o haeretique_n against_o they_o and_o the_o say_n of_o some_o one_o divine_a of_o the_o manner_n of_o worship_n and_o the_o reprehension_n of_o other_o against_o the_o abuse_n commit_v in_o the_o adoration_n of_o they_o out_o of_o all_o which_o set_v the_o testimony_n of_o haeretique_n a_o part_n i_o ask_v what_o he_o will_v conclude_v or_o how_o he_o disprove_v our_o worship_n which_o we_o allow_v or_o how_o the_o reprehension_n of_o abuse_n in_o some_o of_o the_o simple_a sort_n of_o catholic_n suppose_v there_o be_v some_o such_o abuse_n prove_v the_o lawfulness_n of_o his_o image_n break_v or_o the_o truth_n and_o antiquity_n of_o his_o doctrine_n though_o his_o doctrine_n in_o this_o point_n be_v but_o only_o the_o denial_n of_o we_o now_o we_o prove_v over_o and_o above_o out_o of_o ancient_a father_n and_o counsel_n the_o antiquity_n of_o our_o worship_v of_o saint_n and_o their_o picture_n last_o of_o indulgence_n he_o say_v out_o of_o some_o of_o our_o divine_n that_o there_o be_v no_o express_a testimony_n of_o scripture_n and_o father_n for_o the_o antiquity_n of_o they_o to_o which_o we_o answer_v that_o as_o this_o notwithstanding_o these_o very_a man_n do_v not_o deny_v the_o antiquity_n of_o indulgence_n for_o want_n of_o such_o proof_n so_o other_o also_o prove_v the_o ancient_a use_n of_o they_o even_o out_o of_o other_o most_o ancient_a father_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n howsoever_o the_o controversy_n among_o those_o divine_n be_v not_o of_o the_o indulgence_n themselves_o or_o doctrine_n but_o only_o of_o the_o use_n of_o they_o or_o suppose_v it_o be_v so_o that_o one_o or_o two_o divine_n do_v think_v amiss_o of_o they_o do_v that_o prove_v the_o antiquity_n of_o his_o doctrine_n may_v not_o those_o very_a divine_n be_v against_o he_o in_o other_o thing_n what_o ancient_a author_n of_o authority_n have_v he_o bring_v to_o prove_v his_o doctrine_n not_o durand_n nor_o any_o man_n else_o whosoever_o be_v by_o he_o pretend_v to_o think_v hard_a of_o they_o &_o though_o he_o have_v durand_n whole_o for_o he_o how_o can_v his_o bare_a authority_n or_o say_n make_v the_o deny_v doctrine_n ancient_a be_v but_o 400._o year_n ago_o or_o universal_a be_v but_o one_o man_n and_o contradict_v by_o other_o 6._o and_o thus_o have_v make_v a_o review_v opposite_a to_o he_o i_o will_v fain_o see_v what_o any_o man_n can_v find_v shall_v move_v man_n much_o less_o angel_n to_o witness_v the_o antiquity_n or_o universality_n of_o his_o doctrine_n nay_o do_v not_o his_o manner_n of_o proof_n rather_o show_v the_o sleightnes_n and_o novelty_n thereof_o together_o with_o the_o strange_a vanity_n of_o a_o brave_a knight_n that_o brag_v his_o church_n before_o luther_n be_v in_o christ_n in_o the_o apostle_n in_o the_o father_n in_o the_o bosom_n of_o the_o ancient_a church_n praetend_v right_o to_o the_o father_n apostle_n and_o christ_n without_o show_v any_o shadow_n of_o succession_n that_o be_v the_o only_a thing_n which_o he_o be_v to_o have_v do_v here_o and_o indeed_o the_o only_a proper_a proof_n for_o a_o man_n that_o will_v profess_v right_a to_o such_o ancestor_n and_o this_o be_v indeed_o the_o proof_n which_o tertullian_n do_v exact_a at_o the_o hand_n of_o some_o haeretique_n who_o claim_v antiquity_n and_o will_v needs_o have_v their_o doctrine_n pass_v for_o apostolic_a because_o they_o be_v in_o the_o apostle_n time_n 32._o tert._n the_o praescr_n cap._n 32._o edant_fw-la ergo_fw-la say_v he_o origines_fw-la ecclesiarum_fw-la suarum_fw-la evoluant_fw-la ordinem_fw-la episcoporum_fw-la suorum_fw-la ita_fw-la per_fw-la successiones_fw-la ab_fw-la initio_fw-la decurrentem_fw-la ut_fw-la primus_fw-la ille_fw-la episcopus_fw-la aliquem_fw-la ex_fw-la apostolis_n etc._n etc._n let_v they_o show_v the_o beginning_n of_o their_o church_n let_v they_o unroull_a or_o lay_v open_a the_o order_n or_o catalogue_n of_o their_o bishop_n so_o run_v by_o succession_n from_o the_o beginning_n that_o that_o first_o bishop_n have_v for_o author_n or_o praedessor_n some_o one_o of_o the_o apostle_n or_o apostolical_a man_n who_o yet_o have_v persevere_v with_o the_o apostle_n for_o in_o this_o manner_n the_o apostolic_a church_n draw_v down_o their_o pedigree_n as_o the_o church_n of_o smyrna_n recount_v polycarpe_n place_v by_o john_n the_o roman_a church_n clement_n ordain_v by_o peter_n &_o so_o other_o church_n show_v who_o they_o have_v have_v place_v bishop_n by_o the_o apostle_n as_o it_o be_v branch_n of_o the_o apostolical_a seed_n let_v the_o haeretique_n feign_v any_o such_o thing_n so_o he_o do_v you_o hear_v tertullian_n sir_n humphrey_n brag_v then_o if_o you_o think_v good_a still_o we_o give_v you_o leave_v that_o your_o church_n be_v ancient_o in_o christ_n in_o the_o apostle_n father_n and_o bosom_n of_o the_o ancient_a church_n without_o show_v any_o such_o succession_n of_o bishop_n draw_v down_o from_o the_o apostle_n 7._o now_o than_o that_o you_o have_v speak_v so_o well_o of_o the_o certainty_n of_o your_o own_o belief_n let_v we_o hear_v what_o you_o say_v of_o the_o uncertainty_n of_o we_o wherewith_o you_o begin_v thus_o that_o for_o far_a proof_n of_o your_o cause_n you_o will_v give_v another_o summons_n to_o the_o prime_a man_n even_o of_o our_o grand_a inquest_n who_o without_o partiality_n will_v testify_v on_o your_o behalf_n that_o your_o church_n be_v build_v upon_o a_o more_o stable_n and_o sure_a foundation_n than_o the_o now_o roman_a church_n and_o that_o your_o doctrine_n be_v more_o fruiteful_a and_o profitable_a and_o every_o way_n more_o safe_a and_o comfortable_a for_o the_o belief_n of_o every_o christian_a and_o salvation_n of_o the_o believer_n which_o you_o prove_v lay_v way_n for_o a_o ground_n what_o bellarmine_n say_v that_o no_o man_n can_v be_v certain_a by_o the_o certainty_n of_o faith_n that_o he_o do_v receive_v a_o true_a sacrament_n because_o that_o depend_v upon_o the_o intention_n of_o the_o minister_n whereof_o no_o man_n can_v be_v certain_a by_o which_o one_o tenet_n you_o say_v we_o overthrow_v all_o certainty_n of_o true_a faith_n which_o you_o exemplify_v in_o baptism_n wherein_o if_o there_o want_v the_o intention_n of_o the_o baptizer_n the_o baptise_a be_v still_o a_o heathen_a and_o in_o state_n of_o damnation_n so_o of_o order_n if_o the_o intention_n of_o the_o ordain_a fail_n it_o be_v no_o sacrament_n and_o consequenty_n if_o this_o intention_n be_v want_v in_o the_o ordination_n of_o pope_n all_o succeed_a ordination_n will_v be_v void_a so_o also_o of_o matrimony_n if_o the_o intention_n of_o the_o minister_n want_n it_o be_v but_o fornication_n etc._n etc._n thus_o you_o roll_v on_o sir_n humphrey_n in_o your_o discourse_n but_o you_o must_v give_v we_o leave_v to_o have_v a_o word_n or_o two_o with_o you_o before_o you_o go_v far_o you_o give_v another_o summons_n to_o the_o prime_a man_n of_o our_o grand_a inquest_n wherein_o notwithstanding_o i_o do_v not_o find_v that_o you_o observe_v any_o order_n or_o number_n of_o your_o jurour_n as_o be_v wont_a to_o be_v observe_v in_o a_o jury_n whereupon_o i_o begin_v to_o think_v that_o you_o use_v this_o phrase_n of_o summons_n and_o grand_a inquest_n for_o the_o ever_o honour_a memory_n of_o your_o dear_a decease_a father_n who_o be_v one_o of_o the_o most_o famous_a grand_a jury_n man_n of_o middlesex_n in_o his_o time_n from_o who_o it_o seem_v you_o have_v learn_v only_o the_o name_n of_o a_o grand_a inquest_n but_o not_o the_o right_a order_n of_o impanel_a your_o jury_n nor_o even_o the_o right_a number_n of_o your_o jurour_n the_o foreman_n of_o your_o jury_n though_o you_o call_v he_o not_o so_o be_v bellarmine_n who_o you_o make_v to_o give_v up_o his_o verdict_n against_o the_o certainty_n of_o our_o faith_n because_o he_o say_v no_o man_n can_v be_v certain_a he_o receive_v a_o true_a sacrament_n which_o you_o say_v overthrow_v all_o certainty_n of_o faith_n but_o i_o pray_v you_o good_a sir_n humphrey_n say_v true_o be_v you_o in_o earnest_n or_o in_o jest_n i_o think_v by_o the_o matter_n you_o shall_v mean_v only_o in_o jest_n it_o be_v so_o idle_a but_o though_o this_o be_v your_o best_a excuse_n yet_o because_o you_o may_v take_v that_o ill_a
doctrine_n 3._o for_o tradition_n adoration_n of_o image_n saint_n etc._n etc._n all_o be_v answer_v before_o so_o likewise_o his_o communion_n in_o both_o kind_n and_o merit_n of_o good_a work_n but_o for_o that_o which_o he_o say_v that_o he_o acknowledge_v universality_n of_o nation_n and_o people_n not_o to_o be_v a_o mark_n of_o his_o church_n i_o can_v but_o wonder_v at_o it_o for_o what_o be_v this_o but_o even_o in_o plain_a term_n to_o confess_v his_o church_n not_o to_o be_v the_o church_n of_o christ_n 2._o isa_n 2._o isay_n the_o prophet_n describe_v the_o church_n under_o the_o type_n of_o a_o mountain_n say_v that_o all_o nation_n shall_v flow_v unto_o it_o 71._o psal_n 71._o 2._o psal_n 2._o the_o prophet_n david_n describe_v the_o kingdom_n of_o christ_n say_v that_o he_o shall_v bear_v sway_n from_o sea_n to_o sea_n â—_o dan._n 2.3_o â—_o that_o god_n will_v give_v he_o nation_n for_o his_o inhaeritance_n and_o the_o bound_n of_o the_o earth_n for_o his_o possession_n 9â—_n apoc._n 7_o 9â—_n daniel_n describe_v the_o kingdom_n of_o christ_n like_o a_o mountain_n grow_v from_o a_o little_a stone_n and_o fill_v the_o whole_a earth_n s._n john_n see_v a_o multitude_n which_o no_o man_n can_v reckon_v of_o all_o nation_n and_o tribe_n and_o people_n and_o tongue_n this_o be_v also_o the_o thing_n wherein_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n be_v special_o distinguish_v from_o the_o synagogue_n of_o the_o jew_n that_o that_o pertain_v but_o to_o one_o nation_n this_o to_o all_o the_o nation_n of_o the_o earth_n and_o all_o the_o father_n proclaim_v nothing_o more_o particular_o s._n augustine_n in_o a_o whole_a book_n of_o this_o argument_n against_o the_o donatist_n and_o a_o knight_n to_o come_v and_o tell_v we_o he_o do_v not_o account_v this_o as_o a_o mark_n of_o his_o church_n what_o be_v this_o but_o in_o plain_a term_n to_o acknowledge_v that_o his_o church_n be_v not_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n beside_o i_o will_v know_v what_o he_o have_v mean_v all_o this_o while_n by_o universality_n which_o he_o have_v labour_v to_o prove_v to_o belong_v to_o his_o doctrine_n the_o principal_n thing_n understand_v by_o universality_n when_o we_o take_v it_o for_o a_o note_n of_o the_o church_n be_v the_o universality_n of_o place_n to_o wit_n 16.15_o mar._n 16.15_o diverse_a kingdom_n and_o country_n as_o it_o be_v use_v by_o our_o saviour_n himself_o euntes_fw-la in_o mundum_fw-la universum_fw-la praedicate_fw-la evangelium_fw-la omni_fw-la creaturae_fw-la and_o now_o in_o deny_v this_o mark_n to_o belong_v to_o his_o church_n do_v he_o not_o deny_v it_o to_o belong_v to_o his_o doctrine_n for_o how_o can_v that_o doctrine_n be_v universal_a that_o be_v teach_v by_o a_o few_o and_o in_o a_o corner_n of_o the_o world_n and_o in_o acknowledge_v his_o church_n not_o to_o be_v universal_a do_v he_o not_o acknowledge_v it_o not_o to_o be_v catholic_a for_o be_v not_o catholic_n and_o universal_a all_o one_o as_o all_o man_n know_v in_o this_o word_n then_o he_o have_v grant_v enough_o to_o overthrow_v all_o that_o ever_o he_o have_v say_v or_o can_v say_v of_o his_o church_n 4._o but_o now_o to_o come_v to_o the_o matter_n which_o he_o purpose_v in_o this_o section_n which_o be_v to_o answer_v our_o argument_n that_o it_o be_v safe_a for_o a_o man_n to_o take_v the_o way_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n than_o the_o protestant_n because_o even_a protestant_n agree_v with_o catholic_n in_o this_o that_o they_o may_v be_v save_v in_o their_o religion_n and_o catholic_n deny_v that_o protestant_n can_v be_v save_v this_o argument_n the_o knight_n deni_v be_v sorry_a for_o his_o part_n that_o a_o charitable_a opinion_n on_o the_o protestant_n part_n shall_v give_v any_o romanist_n occasion_n to_o live_v and_o die_v in_o the_o bosom_n of_o that_o church_n therefore_o he_o interprete_v that_o say_n to_o be_v mean_v only_o of_o such_o as_o by_o invincible_a ignorance_n resign_v their_o eyesight_n to_o their_o priest_n &_o pastor_n which_o man_n if_o they_o hold_v the_o article_n of_o christian_a belief_n without_o opposition_n to_o any_o ground_n of_o religion_n and_o live_v for_o outward_a thing_n in_o the_o unity_n of_o the_o church_n such_o man_n he_o say_v live_v papist_n and_o die_a protestant_n in_o the_o principal_a foundation_n of_o faith_n may_v find_v mercy_n because_o they_o do_v it_o ignorant_o but_o such_o papist_n he_o say_v as_o live_v in_o state_n and_o kingdom_n where_o they_o may_v come_v to_o knowledge_n of_o the_o truth_n and_o will_v not_o these_o man_n die_v in_o their_o sin_n though_o yet_o again_o he_o a_o little_a temper_n the_o rigour_n of_o this_o doom_n in_o say_v he_o will_v not_o judge_v their_o person_n though_o he_o pronounce_v their_o doctrine_n so_o damnable_a as_o that_o if_o he_o have_v 10000_o soul_n he_o will_v not_o venture_v one_o of_o they_o in_o the_o roman_a faith_n and_o church_n for_o which_o he_o take_v god_n and_o his_o holy_a angel_n to_o witness_v and_o then_o conclude_v very_o pathetical_o thus_o farr_n be_v it_o from_o the_o thought_n of_o good_a man_n to_o think_v the_o point_n in_o controversy_n betwixt_o they_o and_o we_o to_o be_v of_o a_o inferior_a alloy_n as_o that_o a_o man_n may_v resolve_v this_o way_n or_o that_o without_o peril_n of_o his_o salvation_n and_o then_o tell_v we_o the_o fresh_a bleed_a wound_n and_o suffering_n of_o holy_a man_n and_o martyr_n in_o his_o church_n do_v sufficient_o witness_v the_o great_a danger_n in_o our_o religion_n and_o difference_n betwixt_o we_o and_o that_o we_o may_v know_v that_o the_o best_a learned_a of_o his_o church_n be_v far_o from_o grant_v salvation_n to_o any_o papist_n live_v and_o die_v in_o the_o profession_n of_o the_o now_o roman_a faith_n he_o bring_v a_o say_n of_o whitaker_n who_o will_v have_v we_o take_v it_o upon_o his_o word_n that_o in_o heaven_n there_o be_v not_o one_o jesuit_n nor_o one_o papist_n to_o be_v find_v this_o be_v the_o knight_n whole_a discourse_n in_o the_o second_o part_n of_o his_o section_n 5._o whereby_o upon_o examination_n it_o will_v appear_v he_o be_v as_o well_o red_a in_o his_o own_o author_n as_o in_o our_o schoolman_n and_o father_n and_o to_o begin_v with_o he_o he_o be_v sorry_a the_o protestant_n charitable_a opinion_n shall_v give_v any_o man_n encouradgment_n to_o die_v a_o papist_n but_o by_o his_o leave_n this_o opinion_n do_v not_o proceed_v from_o charity_n but_o from_o evidence_n of_o truth_n as_o all_o testimony_n from_o a_o enemy_n do_v but_o whether_o it_o be_v charity_n or_o not_o this_o knight_n will_v none_o of_o this_o charity_n and_o therefore_o he_o say_v that_o this_o be_v mean_v only_o of_o some_o ignorant_a people_n who_o ignorance_n may_v excuse_v they_o but_o yet_o even_o these_o man_n though_o they_o live_v papist_n they_o must_v die_v protestant_n in_o the_o principal_a foundation_n of_o that_o faith_n this_o be_v good_a stuff_n papist_n may_v be_v save_v in_o their_o religion_n but_o yet_o they_o must_v die_v protestant_n very_o right_a sir_n humphrey_n where_o have_v you_o learn_v this_o theology_n that_o a_o man_n may_v be_v save_v in_o one_o religion_n yet_o so_o as_o he_o must_v die_v in_o another_o this_o be_v a_o new_a conceit_n never_o hear_v of_o before_o that_o a_o man_n may_v be_v save_v in_o a_o religion_n but_o so_o as_o not_o to_o die_v of_o it_o and_o here_o a_o man_n may_v ask_v at_o great_a many_o pretty_a question_n as_o what_o foundation_n of_o faith_n that_o be_v that_o they_o must_v die_v in_o what_o article_n of_o apostolic_a and_o christian_a belief_n what_o ground_n these_o be_v that_o may_v not_o be_v oppose_v all_o these_o have_v be_v necessary_a thing_n to_o be_v express_v in_o such_o a_o singular_a treatise_n as_o this_o of_o you_o which_o must_v forsooth_o bear_v the_o name_n of_o a_o safe_a way_n lead_v man_n to_o true_a faith_n and_o why_o also_o a_o man_n that_o hold_v the_o apostle_n creed_n and_o other_o thing_n common_a to_o catholic_n and_o protestant_n not_o forsake_v the_o catholic_a church_n and_o indeed_o not_o know_v any_o thing_n else_o for_o here_o you_o speak_v of_o a_o catholic_a in_o a_o catholic_a country_n where_o it_o be_v to_o be_v suppose_v the_o name_n of_o a_o protestant_n or_o other_o heretic_n be_v unknown_a why_o i_o say_v such_o a_o man_n shall_v be_v say_v to_o die_v a_o protestant_n in_o the_o principal_a point_n of_o his_o faith_n i_o see_v not_o for_o why_o do_v the_o apostle_n creed_n belong_v more_o to_o you_o then_o to_o we_o have_v we_o it_o from_o you_o or_o you_o from_o we_o nay_o if_o i_o will_v stand_v upon_o it_o i_o can_v show_v you_o not_o to_o believe_v a_o right_n in_o any_o one_o article_n thereof_o whereof_o he_o that_o list_v to_o know_v more_o
thou_o be_v not_o to_o be_v the_o author_n but_o the_o keeper_n not_o the_o institutor_n but_o a_o scholar_n not_o leadinge_n but_o follow_v so_o as_o by_o timothee_n the_o whole_a church_n be_v understand_v as_o the_o same_o author_n say_v or_o especial_o the_o whole_a body_n of_o pastor_n it_o follow_v that_o the_o church_n creat_v not_o any_o new_a article_n of_o faith_n but_o teach_v only_o that_o which_o she_o have_v learn_v of_o the_o prophet_n and_o apostle_n 6._o from_o which_o follow_v that_o other_o thing_n which_o i_o mean_v to_o tell_v the_o knight_n for_o his_o learning_n which_o also_o i_o touch_v before_o in_o a_o word_n to_o wit_n that_o when_o point_n of_o doctrine_n before_o in_o controversy_n and_o undefined_a come_v to_o be_v define_v by_o the_o church_n the_o doctrine_n be_v not_o therefore_o new_a because_o it_o be_v de_fw-fr fide_fw-la or_o matter_n of_o faith_n now_o which_o it_o be_v not_o before_o as_o he_o most_o false_o and_o fond_o suppose_v for_o a_o undoubted_a truth_n and_o upon_o this_o his_o own_o idle_a fancy_n build_v many_o goodly_a argument_n like_v so_o many_o castle_n in_o the_o air_n for_o out_o of_o this_o he_o think_v it_o to_o follow_v that_o we_o vary_v in_o our_o doctrine_n that_o because_o forsooth_o there_o be_v many_o thing_n now_o the_o fide_fw-la which_o be_v not_o before_o and_o whereof_o doctor_n do_v dispute_v which_o see_v we_o may_v not_o now_o doubt_v of_o therefore_o the_o faith_n be_v in_o his_o judgement_n alter_v but_o this_o show_v nothing_o but_o the_o poorness_n of_o his_o judgement_n for_o by_o this_o he_o may_v prove_v that_o the_o sun_n as_o it_o rise_v high_a and_o high_o and_o by_o spread_v his_o beam_n give_v light_n in_o some_o place_n att_o noon_n where_o it_o do_v not_o in_o the_o morning_n that_o therefore_o it_o be_v change_v in_o itself_o than_o which_o what_o can_v be_v more_o absurd_a 7._o and_o that_o it_o be_v the_o same_o of_o the_o church_n and_o the_o sun_n 6.9_o cant._n 6.9_o appear_v by_o that_o place_n of_o the_o canticle_n quae_fw-la est_fw-la ista_fw-la quae_fw-la progreditur_fw-la quasi_fw-la aurora_fw-la consurgens_fw-la pulchra_fw-la ut_fw-la luna_fw-la electa_fw-la ut_fw-la sol_fw-la terribilis_fw-la ut_fw-la castrorum_fw-la acies_fw-la ordinata_fw-la who_o be_v she_o that_o go_v forward_o as_o the_o morning_n rise_v fair_a as_o the_o moon_n choose_v as_o the_o sun_n terrible_a as_o a_o order_a army_n of_o tent_n which_o word_v no_o man_n ever_o doubt_v to_o be_v literal_o understand_v of_o the_o church_n even_o then_o as_o the_o sun_n may_v go_v spread_v his_o beam_n more_o and_o more_o with_o out_z increase_n or_o change_v of_o it_o own_o light_n in_o itself_o so_o may_v the_o church_n go_v more_o and_o more_o spread_v the_o beam_n of_o her_o divine_a faith_n with_o out_o increase_v or_o alteration_n of_o the_o faith_n in_o itself_o and_o as_o the_o sun_n beam_n may_v shine_v in_o a_o valley_n or_o room_n of_o a_o house_n where_o it_o do_v not_o shine_v before_o so_o may_v the_o church_n spread_v the_o light_n of_o her_o faith_n show_v such_o or_o such_o a_o point_n to_o be_v a_o divine_a truth_n which_o before_o be_v not_o so_o know_v to_o be_v or_o which_o though_o it_o be_v a_o divine_a truth_n in_o itself_o yet_o it_o be_v not_o so_o to_o us._n 8._o for_o more_o declaration_n whereof_o i_o may_v yet_o bring_v another_o more_o scholarly_o example_n which_o be_v of_o the_o principle_n of_o several_a science_n which_o be_v to_o be_v the_o premise_n in_o demonstrative_a argument_n of_o those_o science_n in_o which_o principle_n or_o premise_n be_v contain_v diverse_a truth_n which_o may_v be_v draw_v out_o of_o they_o by_o many_o several_a conclusion_n one_o follow_v of_o another_o these_o conclusion_n be_v truth_n in_o themselves_o before_o though_o they_o do_v not_o so_o appear_v unto_o i_o till_o i_o see_v the_o connexion_n they_o have_v with_o the_o premise_n and_o how_o they_o be_v contain_v in_o they_o and_o by_o the_o many_o several_a conclusion_n which_o be_v so_o draw_v the_o truth_n of_o those_o principle_n and_o premise_n do_v more_o show_v itself_o but_o not_o receive_v any_o increase_n or_o change_v in_o itself_o thereby_o even_o so_o we_o say_v in_o the_o prime_a principle_n of_o our_o faith_n reveal_v immediate_o to_o the_o prophet_n and_o apostle_n and_o by_o they_o deliver_v unto_o the_o church_n be_v contain_v all_o truth_n which_o any_o way_n belong_v to_o our_o faith_n and_o whereby_o the_o church_n have_v in_o succeed_a age_n destroy_v several_a heresy_n as_o they_o have_v rise_v without_o create_v or_o coin_v new_a faith_n or_o alter_v the_o old_a but_o out_o of_o the_o old_a ground_n and_o premise_n draw_v those_o conclusion_n which_o destroy_v new_a heresy_n and_o show_v they_o to_o be_v contrary_a to_o the_o ancient_a faith_n and_o in_o that_o manner_n the_o church_n have_v grow_v and_o increase_v in_o knowledge_n by_o degree_n and_o shall_v still_o go_v grow_v and_o increase_v to_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n 6._o greg._n moral_a lib._n 9_o cap_n 6._o as_o show_v s._n greg._n his_o discourse_n upon_o those_o word_n of_o job._n qui_fw-la facit_fw-la arcturum_fw-la &_o oriana_n &_o hyadas_n etc._n etc._n where_o he_o say_v thus_o vrgente_n mundi_fw-la sine_fw-la superna_fw-la scientia_fw-la proficit_fw-la &_o largius_fw-la cum_fw-la tempore_fw-la excrescit_fw-la as_o the_o world_n draw_v to_o a_o end_n the_o heavenly_a knowledge_n profit_v and_o with_o time_n increase_v wherein_o also_o she_o resemble_v our_o b._n saviour_n her_o chief_a lord_n and_o heavenly_a spouse_n who_o though_o in_o grace_n and_o knowlegde_v he_o never_o receive_v the_o least_o increase_n from_o the_o first_o instant_n of_o his_o conception_n 2.52_o luc_n 2.52_o yet_o the_o scripture_n say_v after_o proficiebat_fw-la sapientia_fw-la &_o aetate_fw-la &_o gratia_fw-la apud_fw-la deum_fw-la &_o homines_fw-la to_o wit_n because_o he_o show_v it_o more_o in_o his_o word_n and_o action_n 9_o this_o be_v far_a confirm_v by_o the_o manner_n and_o practice_n which_o our_o catholic_a doctor_n and_o father_n ever_o observe_v in_o and_o out_o of_o counsel_n in_o prove_v or_o define_v point_n of_o faith_n to_o wit_n by_o have_v recourse_n to_o the_o authority_n of_o scripture_n and_o tradition_n belief_n and_o practice_v of_o the_o church_n in_o the_o search_n whereof_o the_o holy_a church_n join_v humane_a industry_n with_o god_n holy_a grace_n and_o assistance_n for_o when_o any_o question_n or_o doubt_v of_o faith_n arise_v particular_a doctor_n several_o dispute_v and_o write_v thereof_o then_o if_o far_o need_n require_v it_o the_o holy_a church_n gather_v together_o her_o pastor_n and_o doctor_n in_o a_o council_n to_o examine_v and_o discuss_v the_o matter_n more_o full_o as_o in_o that_o first_o council_n of_o the_o apostle_n 15.6_o act._n 15.6_o whereof_o the_o scripture_n say_v conueneruntque_fw-la apostoli_fw-la &_o seniores_fw-la videre_fw-la de_fw-la verbo_fw-la 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same_o by_o a_o excellent_a discourse_n of_o that_o holy_a and_o ancient_a father_n vincentius_n lerinensis_n not_o recite_v his_o very_a word_n because_o it_o will_v be_v too_o long_o but_o only_o the_o substance_n which_o be_v this_o have_v prove_v by_o the_o word_n depositum_fw-la out_o of_o s._n paul_n that_o a_o pastor_n priest_n preacher_n or_o doctor_n there_o mean_v by_o timothee_n must_v only_o deliver_v the_o doctrine_n which_o be_v deposit_v with_o he_o or_o in_o his_o hand_n not_o find_v out_o by_o he_o which_o he_o have_v receive_v not_o invent_v whereof_o he_o be_v not_o to_o be_v author_n or_o beginner_n but_o the_o keeper_n or_o guardian_n he_o say_v that_o if_o such_o a_o man_n have_v ability_n for_o it_o he_o may_v like_v another_o beseleel_n adorn_v set_v out_o and_o grace_v the_o precious_a jewel_n of_o divine_a faith_n by_o expound_v more_o clear_o that_o which_o before_o be_v believe_v more_o
name_v but_o by_o way_n of_o forbid_v they_o and_o by_o way_n of_o command_a bishop_n to_o reform_v such_o thing_n even_o as_o delegate_n of_o the_o see_v apostolic_a where_o there_o be_v need_n which_o be_v so_o apparent_a that_o the_o knight_n be_v fain_o to_o confess_v it_o after_o in_o these_o word_n neither_o do_v these_o man_n seek_v reformation_n in_o manner_n only_o but_o in_o the_o doctrine_n itself_o wherein_o together_o with_o the_o contradiction_n of_o his_o own_o former_a lie_n he_o tell_v a_o new_a one_o to_o wit_n in_o say_v that_o we_o seek_v a_o reformation_n in_o the_o doctrine_n whereof_o he_o name_v some_o particular_a point_n as_o private_a mass_n latin_a service_n etc._n etc._n which_o be_v most_o false_a for_o the_o doctrine_n be_v the_o same_o still_o and_o ever_o be_v that_o though_o the_o fruit_n be_v great_a when_o the_o people_n do_v communicate_v with_o the_o priest_n sacramental_o yet_o the_o mass_n in_o that_o case_n be_v neither_o unlawful_a not_o be_v to_o be_v call_v private_a both_o because_o the_o people_n communicate_v spiritual_o and_o also_o because_o the_o mass_n be_v offer_v by_o the_o priest_n as_o the_o public_a minister_n of_o the_o church_n it_o wish_v indeed_o that_o the_o stander_n by_o do_v communicate_v not_o only_o spiritual_o but_o alsoe_o sacramental_o without_o ever_o mention_v the_o reform_a or_o rather_o deform_a church_n 8._o what_o error_n then_o do_v the_o council_n here_o acknowledge_v again_o the_o knight_n say_v that_o though_o the_o council_n do_v not_o allow_v the_o celebrate_n of_o mass_n in_o the_o vulgar_a tongue_n yet_o it_o command_v pastor_n and_o other_o that_o have_v care_n of_o soul_n to_o explicate_v and_o expound_v to_o the_o people_n some_o of_o those_o thing_n that_o be_v read_v in_o the_o mass_n and_o ask_v thus_o how_o near_o these_o man_n do_v come_v to_o our_o doctrine_n who_o do_v not_o perceive_v i_o answer_v that_o do_v not_o i_o sir_n humphrey_n nor_o i_o think_v any_o man_n else_o that_o have_v ordinary_a common_a sense_n you_o condemn_v all_o mass_n the_o council_n allow_v it_o you_o condemn_v private_a mass_n the_o council_n approve_v that_o which_o you_o call_v private_a mass_n but_o deni_v that_o it_o be_v so_o call_v private_a as_o you_o will_v have_v it_o the_o council_n speak_v of_o mass_n the_o true_a and_o proper_a sacrifice_n of_o the_o new_a law_n you_o will_v make_v man_n believe_v it_o speak_v of_o your_o sacrilegious_a supper_n in_o our_o mass_n and_o communion_n as_o the_o council_n teach_v be_v offer_v and_o distribute_v the_o true_a real_a and_o substantial_a body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n jesus_n and_o what_o it_o say_v hereof_o you_o must_v mad_o will_v make_v i_o believe_v be_v speak_v of_o your_o empty_a and_o imaginary_a communion_n the_o council_n teach_v that_o the_o mass_n be_v not_o general_o to_o be_v celebrate_v in_o the_o vulgar_a tongue_n you_o will_v all_o public_a prayer_n so_o make_v and_o therefore_o condemn_v the_o catholic_a church_n for_o celebrate_v in_o latin_a which_o the_o council_n allow_v o_o madness_n of_o a_o man_n then_o to_o talk_v thus_o as_o if_o the_o council_n come_v near_o to_o he_o when_o it_o say_v yea_o to_o his_o nay_o and_o nay_o to_o his_o yea_o 9_o but_o have_v thus_o substantial_o prove_v the_o council_n to_o agree_v with_o he_o and_o find_v other_o place_n of_o the_o same_o so_o evident_o against_o he_o he_o will_v needs_o have_v the_o council_n contradict_v itself_o and_o for_o that_o end_n bring_v certain_a contradiction_n as_o he_o wise_o take_v they_o to_o be_v one_o be_v that_o the_o pope_n in_o his_o bull_n of_o profession_n of_o faith_n say_v that_o the_o use_n of_o indulgence_n be_v most_o wholesome_a for_o the_o people_n for_o which_o he_o may_v have_v cite_v also_o the_o council_n more_o thou_o once_o and_o that_o yet_o the_o council_n confess_v the_o scandal_n that_o come_v by_o they_o be_v very_o great_a with_o out_o hope_v of_o reformation_n which_o be_v not_o contradiction_n between_o the_o council_n and_o pope_n but_o a_o flat_a corruption_n of_o the_o knight_n the_o pope_n speak_v of_o one_o thing_n to_o wit_n indulgence_n in_o themselves_o the_o council_n in_o this_o place_n speak_v of_o the_o man_n that_o have_v the_o promulgation_n of_o they_o and_o the_o gather_n of_o the_o alm_n for_o prevent_v who_o avarice_n &_o abuse_n there_o have_v be_v so_o many_o remedy_n use_v former_o in_o other_o counsel_n but_o to_o none_o effect_n that_o this_o council_n think_v good_a to_o take_v that_o office_n whole_o out_o of_o such_o man_n hand_n and_o take_v another_o course_n with_o it_o what_o seem_a contradiction_n be_v here_o another_o of_o his_o contradiction_n be_v that_o the_o council_n approve_v those_o mass_n wherein_o the_o people_n do_v not_o communicate_v and_o yet_o wish_v that_o the_o people_n be_v so_o devoute_a as_o to_o communicate_v sacramental_o be_v not_o here_o a_o stout_a contradiction_n as_o also_o that_o the_o council_n approve_v mass_n in_o a_o un_fw-mi know_v tongue_n and_o yet_o will_v have_v the_o priest_n especial_o upon_o sunday_n and_o holiday_n to_o declare_v some_o of_o that_o which_o be_v read_v or_o some_o mystery_n of_o the_o holy_a mass_n do_v not_o these_o two_o agree_v very_o well_o i_o do_v not_o see_v what_o the_o man_n mean_v 10._o and_o to_o conclude_v this_o wise_a section_n he_o talk_v somewhat_o of_o reformation_n hinder_v by_o some_o principal_a man_n as_o one_o nicolas_n scomberg_n a_o dominican_n cardinal_n cite_v four_o or_o five_o most_o haeretical_a book_n namely_o forbid_v in_o the_o roman_a index_n and_o among_o they_o the_o history_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n not_o name_v in_o the_o index_n because_o it_o come_v out_o since_o but_o write_v by_o a_o arche-haeretique_a and_o no_o less_o detest_v by_o catholic_n then_o any_o of_o the_o rest_n which_o i_o pass_v over_o as_o of_o no_o account_n nor_o allege_v to_o any_o purpose_n as_o for_o reformation_n who_o can_v say_v it_o be_v hinder_v but_o only_o by_o haeretique_n for_o what_o else_o have_v the_o council_n of_o trent_n do_v but_o reform_v all_o abuse_n of_o manner_n where_o it_o be_v or_o can_v be_v receive_v and_o for_o error_n of_o faith_n teach_v by_o haeretique_n it_o have_v utter_o condemn_v they_o and_o banish_v they_o from_o the_o ear_n of_o all_o catholic_n what_o reformation_n then_o have_v it_o hinder_v but_o the_o haeretical_a reformation_n whereunto_o cardinal_n scomberg_n say_v well_o if_o you_o and_o your_o history_n of_o trent_n say_v true_a that_o it_o be_v no_o way_n to_o yield_v a_o iott_n to_o haeretique_n for_o it_o be_v not_o indeed_o for_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n have_v ever_o be_v to_o the_o contrary_a show_v thereby_o that_o the_o way_n to_o overcome_v haeresy_n be_v whole_o to_o resist_v it_o and_o though_o that_o thing_n which_o the_o haeretique_n teach_v or_o will_v have_v practise_v be_v before_o indifferent_a yet_o for_o their_o urge_v the_o same_o upon_o their_o haeretical_a ground_n it_o have_v be_v absolute_o forbid_v lest_o we_o may_v seem_v to_o have_v yield_v to_o they_o and_o so_o confirm_v they_o or_o draw_v other_o to_o believe_v they_o or_o their_o doctrine_n who_o to_o reprehend_v and_o contradict_v the_o catholic_a church_n many_o time_n make_v thing_n of_o indifferency_n to_o be_v of_o necessity_n that_o they_o forsooth_o may_v seem_v the_o only_a wiseman_n in_o the_o world_n and_o the_o church_n of_o god_n subject_n to_o error_n which_o i_o can_v prove_v by_o many_o example_n if_o need_n be_v and_o herewith_o i_o make_v a_o end_n of_o this_o chapter_n wherein_o i_o have_v disprove_v the_o knight_n and_o convince_v he_o of_o manifest_a falsehood_n in_o both_o the_o thing_n by_o he_o pretend_v show_v in_o the_o one_o that_o the_o council_n acknowledge_v not_o any_o corruption_n in_o matter_n of_o faith_n but_o only_o by_o haeretique_n and_o in_o the_o other_o that_o for_o corruption_n of_o manner_n which_o it_o acknowledge_v it_o have_v use_v all_o possible_a mean_n to_o redress_v they_o of_o sir_n humphrey_n 4._o section_n whereof_o the_o title_n be_v this_o that_o many_o learned_a romanist_n convict_v by_o the_o evidence_n of_o truth_n either_o in_o part_n or_o in_o whole_a have_v renounce_v popery_n before_o their_o death_n chapter_n four_o 1._o i_o can_v here_o before_o i_o go_v far_o ask_v what_o this_o make_v for_o the_o visibility_n of_o the_o knight_n his_o church_n for_o suppose_v it_o be_v true_a and_o that_o we_o do_v yield_v he_o his_o say_n that_o many_o have_v fall_v from_o the_o catholic_a faith_n to_o be_v protestant_n as_o it_o be_v clear_a that_o many_o have_v for_o otherwise_o there_o have_v never_o be_v any_o protestant_n in_o the_o world_n do_v this_o make_v his_o church_n visible_a in_o former_a time_n or_o do_v
wind_n indulgence_n §._o 8._o 1._o we_o be_v now_o come_v to_o the_o last_o §_o of_o this_o chapter_n which_o be_v indulgence_n which_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n begin_v after_o your_o wont_a manner_n with_o the_o ten_o article_n of_o our_o creed_n as_o you_o call_v it_o and_o the_o decree_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n teach_v that_o christ_n have_v leave_v that_o power_n of_o grant_v indulgence_n in_o his_o church_n and_o that_o the_o church_n have_v use_v the_o same_o from_o most_o ancient_a time_n and_o that_o therefore_o they_o be_v to_o be_v retain_v in_o the_o church_n condemn_v also_o whosoever_o shall_v term_v they_o unprofitable_a or_o deny_v authority_n in_o the_o church_n to_o grant_v they_o which_o doctrine_n you_o allow_v not_o of_o as_o not_o be_v agreeable_a to_o christ_n institution_n nor_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o primitive_a father_n you_o confess_v indeed_o that_o in_o the_o primitive_a church_n there_o be_v a_o power_n in_o the_o bishop_n to_o remit_v or_o mitigate_v the_o severity_n of_o the_o punishment_n which_o by_o the_o canon_n man_n be_v to_o undergo_v for_o certain_a great_a crime_n which_o mitigation_n you_o allow_v to_o have_v be_v call_v by_o the_o name_n of_o indulgence_n and_o in_o that_o sense_n you_o take_v that_o relaxation_n of_o the_o incestuous_a corithian_a by_o s_n paul_n thus_o far_o you_o go_v well_o with_o we_o but_o now_o you_o say_v the_o indulgence_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v a_o absolution_n from_o the_o guilt_n of_o temporal_a punishment_n by_o application_n of_o the_o merit_n of_o christ_n &_o his_o saint_n term_v the_o treasure_n of_o the_o church_n which_o treasure_n you_o say_v be_v apply_v to_o the_o soul_n in_o purgatory_n and_o that_o which_o be_v former_o use_v for_o mitigation_n of_o punishment_n be_v now_o reduce_v to_o private_a satisfaction_n and_o that_o which_o be_v former_o leave_v to_o the_o discretion_n of_o every_o bishop_n in_o his_o diocese_n be_v transfer_v whole_o to_o the_o pope_n and_o this_o not_o only_o for_o some_o few_o year_n in_o this_o life_n but_o for_o many_o thousand_o in_o purgatory_n after_o death_n 2._o this_o be_v your_o discourse_n sir_n humphrey_n which_o though_o you_o seem_v to_o take_v to_o be_v a_o very_a good_a and_o substantial_a one_o yet_o be_v it_o nothing_o so_o for_o first_o it_o neither_o prove_v any_o thing_n nor_o overthrow_v our_o doctrine_n of_o indulgence_n though_o that_o be_v true_a which_o you_o say_v of_o the_o difference_n between_o our_o indulgence_n of_o these_o time_n and_o those_o of_o the_o primitive_a church_n for_o the_o use_n of_o those_o time_n be_v not_o our_o only_a ground_n for_o this_o point_n of_o doctrine_n but_o we_o have_v other_o both_o of_o scripture_n tradition_n &_o undoubted_a practice_n of_o the_o church_n for_o above_o a_o thousand_o year_n at_o least_o and_o this_o of_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n in_o relaxation_n of_o the_o punishment_n of_o the_o penitential_a canon_n be_v not_o urge_v by_o we_o at_o lest_o by_o some_o of_o our_o divine_n as_o a_o evident_a convince_a proof_n but_o only_o as_o coniectural_a and_o probable_a q._n suar._n to_o 3._o in_o 3._o pars_fw-la disp_n 49_o sect_n 2._o n._n 4.5_o &_o sâ—_n q._n it_o be_v not_o then_o to_o the_o purpose_n for_o you_o to_o stand_v so_o much_o urge_v the_o difference_n between_o the_o indulgence_n of_o our_o time_n and_o those_o of_o other_o former_a time_n as_o if_o by_o do_v that_o you_o have_v do_v all_o that_o be_v to_o be_v do_v 3._o but_o beside_o to_o answer_n second_o you_o have_v not_o do_v even_o that_o for_o you_o do_v but_o only_o make_v show_v as_o if_o you_o will_v have_v man_n think_v they_o be_v different_a without_o show_v wherein_o the_o difference_n consist_v nay_o even_o out_o of_o that_o which_o you_o grant_v of_o those_o ancient_a indulgence_n you_o may_v be_v disprove_v in_o what_o you_o deny_v of_o we_o for_o to_o begin_v with_o the_o very_a word_n indulgence_n you_o grant_v it_o to_o have_v be_v in_o use_n in_o those_o time_n but_o you_o say_v we_o be_v a_o absolution_n from_o the_o guilt_n of_o temporal_a punishment_n by_o application_n of_o the_o merit_n of_o christ_n which_o though_o allege_v as_o a_o difference_n yet_o do_v i_o not_o see_v wherein_o the_o difference_n be_v for_o they_o be_v a_o absolution_n because_o it_o be_v a_o unloose_n or_o untie_n for_o whereas_o by_o the_o canon_n for_o certain_a great_a crime_n man_n be_v bind_v or_o tie_v to_o undergo_v such_o penance_n for_o example_n to_o fast_o with_o bread_n and_o water_n so_o many_o day_n in_o a_o week_n for_o so_o many_o month_n or_o year_n not_o to_o be_v admit_v to_o the_o sacrament_n and_o sacrifice_n of_o the_o mass_n and_o the_o like_a by_o this_o indulgence_n or_o pardon_n which_o you_o grant_v they_o be_v untie_v or_o loose_v from_o so_o much_o or_o so_o little_a as_o by_o that_o pardon_n they_o be_v free_v from_o and_o so_o be_v it_o in_o our_o indulgence_n wherefore_o the_o difference_n be_v not_o in_o the_o absolution_n which_o be_v nothing_o but_o lose_v or_o untie_n it_o can_v not_o be_v also_o in_o the_o guilt_n which_o must_v needs_o be_v remit_v in_o your_o indulgence_n as_o well_o as_o in_o we_o for_o a_o man_n be_v not_o free_a so_o long_o as_o he_o be_v guilty_a if_o then_o they_o be_v free_v by_o that_o pardon_n the_o guilt_n be_v take_v away_o thereby_o it_o be_v not_o likewise_o in_o the_o temporal_a punishment_n which_o be_v alike_o remit_v in_o the_o one_o and_o other_o for_o it_o be_v temporal_a punishment_n or_o penance_n which_o man_n be_v free_v from_o in_o those_o time_n by_o indulgence_n and_o so_o it_o be_v temporal_a punishment_n which_o we_o be_v now_o adays_o free_v from_o by_o our_o indulgence_n wherefore_o i_o do_v not_o understand_v what_o you_o mean_v sir_n humphrey_n when_o you_o seem_v to_o make_v a_o difference_n in_o this_o say_v that_o indulgence_n which_o be_v first_o use_v for_o mitigation_n of_o punishment_n be_v now_o reduce_v to_o private_a satisfaction_n for_o what_o be_v not_o those_o indulgence_n give_v to_o private_a man_n for_o satisfaction_n or_o in_o lieu_n of_o that_o satisfaction_n which_o they_o be_v to_o make_v by_o the_o canon_n and_o be_v not_o we_o mitigation_n of_o the_o same_o unless_o you_o put_v the_o force_n in_o this_o that_o there_o the_o punishment_n be_v only_o mitigate_v or_o lessen_v &_o that_o in_o our_o indulgence_n all_o be_v take_v away_o which_o yet_o be_v false_a on_o both_o side_n for_o neither_o in_o we_o be_v all_o the_o punishment_n take_v always_o away_o and_o in_o those_o sometime_o all_o be_v take_v away_o as_o we_o see_v by_o the_o example_n of_o the_o corinthian_a who_o s._n paul_n do_v forgive_v without_o limitation_n beside_o this_o i_o do_v not_o imagine_v what_o you_o can_v mean_v in_o these_o word_n 4._o the_o difference_n also_o be_v not_o in_o the_o authority_n or_o power_n whereby_o this_o pardon_n be_v grant_v for_o than_o it_o be_v grant_v by_o the_o bishop_n and_o so_o it_o be_v also_o now_o for_o every_o bishop_n in_o the_o catholic_a church_n have_v this_o power_n but_o you_o will_v say_v humphrey_n not_o so_o much_o now_o as_o then_o be_v it_o so_o that_o be_v against_o yourself_o for_o that_o be_v your_o complaint_n that_o it_o be_v more_o use_v now_o then_o in_o those_o time_n but_o you_o say_v again_o the_o pope_n have_v more_o now_o than_o he_o have_v then_o and_o that_o all_o be_v transfer_v whole_o to_o he_o to_o which_o i_o answer_v that_o this_o late_a part_n be_v false_a all_o be_v not_o so_o whole_o transfer_v but_o that_o every_o bishop_n have_v his_o part_n of_o this_o power_n over_o his_o own_o subject_n though_o with_o some_o limitation_n and_o though_o the_o pope_n shall_v take_v it_o whole_o to_o himself_o and_o from_o other_o bishop_n what_o be_v this_o against_o indulgence_n do_v it_o alter_v the_o nature_n of_o they_o because_o the_o pope_n give_v they_o either_o more_o by_o himself_o or_o more_o liberal_o than_o he_o do_v heretofore_o by_o other_o the_o power_n be_v in_o many_o before_o now_o it_o be_v in_o one_o that_o one_o than_o have_v more_o power_n than_o he_o have_v before_o but_o be_v it_o not_o the_o same_o kind_n of_o power_n wherefore_o the_o difference_n can_v consist_v in_o this_o but_o think_v not_o sir_n that_o i_o grant_v you_o the_o pope_n power_n to_o be_v more_o now_o then_o at_o that_o time_n it_o be_v nor_o less_o than_o they_o now_o it_o be_v it_o be_v the_o same_o of_o this_o power_n as_o of_o all_o other_o his_o power_n of_o bind_v &_o lose_v whereof_o this_o be_v one_o branch_n which_o do_v ever_o extend_v over_o the_o whole_a church_n over_o all_o pastor_n and_o all_o and_o every_o one_o of_o
riff_o raff_o stuff_n as_o your_o minister_n be_v wont_a to_o eke_o out_o their_o book_n and_o sermon_n without_o be_v able_a to_o show_v any_o bull_n of_o pope_n or_o testimony_n of_o good_a author_n of_o any_o indulgence_n so_o grant_v which_o though_o you_o or_o they_o can_v yet_o be_v be_v not_o to_o the_o purpose_n no_o more_o than_o your_o profane_a jest_n out_o of_o guiciardin_n of_o play_v a_o game_n at_o table_n for_o a_o indulgence_n for_o what_o suppose_v that_o be_v true_a may_v not_o a_o man_n think_v you_o tell_v as_o good_a a_o tale_n of_o some_o protestant_n who_o in_o their_o pot_n have_v make_v so_o bold_a with_o almighty_a god_n himself_o as_o to_o drink_v a_o health_n unto_o he_o and_o be_v not_o this_o a_o fine_a argument_n to_o prove_v that_o there_o be_v no_o god_n beside_o guiciardin_n history_n translate_v by_o coelius_n secundus_fw-la curio_n which_o i_o suppose_v you_o to_o cite_v for_o it_o be_v most_o like_o you_o be_v no_o italian_a be_v forbid_v in_o the_o roman_a index_n that_o curio_n be_v a_o haeretique_n of_o the_o first_o class_n but_o pass_v from_o your_o merriment_n you_o tell_v we_o serious_o that_o you_o will_v not_o say_v it_o be_v a_o strange_a presumption_n for_o a_o council_n to_o determine_v a_o uncertain_a doctrine_n upon_o the_o pope_n infallibility_n and_o opinion_n of_o schoolman_n but_o you_o venture_v to_o say_v it_o be_v a_o weak_a and_o senseless_a faith_n that_o give_v assent_v to_o it_o without_o authority_n of_o scripture_n and_o consent_n of_o father_n your_o meaning_n be_v by_o a_o fine_a rhetorical_a figure_n to_o say_v it_o be_v presumption_n by_o say_v you_o will_v not_o say_v so_o but_o sir_n humphrey_n i_o will_v go_v the_o plain_a way_n to_o work_v with_o you_o and_o tell_v you_o it_o be_v intolerable_a presumption_n for_o you_o suppose_v you_o be_v a_o man_n of_o learning_n to_o take_v upon_o you_o to_o censure_v of_o presumption_n so_o great_a a_o council_n as_o that_o of_o trent_n wherein_o the_o whole_a flower_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n for_o learning_n and_o sanctity_n be_v gather_v together_o the_o splendour_n whereof_o be_v so_o great_a that_o your_o night_n owl_n haeretique_n dare_v not_o once_o appear_v though_o they_o be_v invite_v and_o promise_v to_o go_v and_o come_v free_o with_o all_o the_o security_n they_o can_v wish_v and_o for_o such_o a_o fellow_n as_o you_o to_o make_v yourself_o judge_v thereof_o what_o intolerable_a presumption_n be_v it_o it_o be_v presumption_n with_o you_o forsooth_o for_o a_o council_n to_o define_v a_o point_n of_o faith_n upon_o the_o perpetual_a and_o constant_a belief_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n &_o upon_o the_o common_a consent_n of_o doctor_n be_v both_o of_o they_o sufficient_a rule_n of_o faith_n of_o themselves_o there_o be_v withal_o sufficient_a testimony_n of_o scripture_n in_o the_o sense_n which_o it_o have_v ever_o be_v understand_v by_o catholic_a interpreter_n and_o yet_o it_o be_v not_o presumption_n for_o you_o without_o doctor_n without_o father_n without_o council_n without_o scripture_n without_o any_o manner_n of_o authority_n to_o go_v against_o all_o this_o authority_n 13._o now_o whereas_o you_o say_v it_o be_v a_o senseless_a and_o weak_a faith_n that_o give_v assent_n to_o doctrine_n as_o necessary_a to_o be_v believe_v which_o want_v authority_n of_o scripture_n and_o consent_n of_o father_n i_o answer_v you_o do_v not_o know_v what_o you_o say_v it_o show_v plain_o you_o have_v not_o read_v one_o of_o those_o father_n of_o who_o you_o so_o much_o brag_v who_o all_o agree_v that_o there_o be_v many_o thing_n which_o man_n be_v bind_v to_o believe_v upon_o unwritten_a tradition_n who_o authority_n you_o may_v see_v in_o great_a number_n in_o bellarmine_n 7._o de_fw-fr verbo_fw-la dei_fw-la lib._n 4._o cap._n 7._o but_o for_o consent_v of_o father_n it_o be_v true_a it_o be_v requisite_a because_o we_o have_v not_o the_o tradition_n but_o by_o consent_n of_o father_n but_o this_o consent_n of_o father_n be_v no_o more_o require_v to_o be_v by_o their_o express_a testimony_n in_o writing_n then_o in_o the_o scripture_n itself_o for_o where_o do_v you_o find_v that_o the_o holy_a father_n do_v know_v believe_v or_o practice_v no_o more_o but_o what_o they_o do_v write_v or_o that_o any_o one_o do_v write_v in_o particular_a all_o the_o whole_a belief_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n the_o father_n do_v in_o their_o writing_n as_o the_o apostle_n do_v in_o they_o that_o be_v write_v of_o this_o or_o that_o particular_a matter_n as_o the_o particular_a occasion_n of_o answer_v some_o haeretique_n or_o instruct_v some_o catholic_a do_v require_v and_o therefore_o mention_v no_o more_o than_o be_v needful_a for_o that_o end_n but_o the_o consent_n of_o father_n be_v most_o of_o all_o prove_v by_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n of_o the_o present_a time_n see_v that_o practice_n be_v without_o beginning_n can_v otherwise_o have_v be_v but_o from_o those_o that_o have_v go_v before_o from_o time_n to_o time_n and_o though_o you_o make_v a_o difference_n yet_o certain_o it_o be_v the_o same_o of_o the_o consent_n of_o catholic_a doctor_n in_o the_o present_a time_n as_o it_o be_v of_o holy_a father_n in_o former_a time_n who_o be_v the_o doctor_n of_o those_o time_n and_o as_o they_o be_v father_n not_o so_o proper_o in_o respect_n of_o those_o time_n wherein_o they_o live_v as_o of_o succeed_a age_n so_o the_o doctor_n of_o these_o time_n be_v father_n in_o respect_n of_o those_o that_o shall_v come_v after_o they_o neither_o can_v the_o consent_n of_o doctor_n in_o the_o catholic_a church_n more_o err_v in_o one_o time_n then_o another_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n and_o assistance_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n be_v always_o the_o same_o no_o less_o in_o one_o time_n then_o another_o 28._o tert._n the_o praescr_n cap._n 28._o and_o tertullian_n rule_n have_v still_o place_n as_o well_o in_o one_o age_n as_o another_o to_o wit_n quod_fw-la apud_fw-la multos_fw-la unum_fw-la invenitur_fw-la non_fw-la est_fw-la erratum_fw-la sed_fw-la traditum_fw-la that_o which_o be_v the_o same_o among_o many_o be_v no_o error_n but_o a_o tradition_n the_o common_a consent_n therefore_o of_o doctor_n and_o particular_a church_n be_v always_o a_o sufficient_a argument_n of_o tradition_n and_o antiquity_n and_o consequent_o a_o sufficient_a ground_n for_o a_o council_n to_o define_v a_o matter_n of_o faith_n against_o whatsoever_o novel_a fancy_n of_o any_o haeretique_n that_o shall_v take_v upon_o he_o to_o control_v the_o same_o this_o i_o do_v not_o say_v that_o we_o want_v sufficient_a proof_n of_o antiquity_n for_o any_o point_n but_o to_o show_v that_o we_o need_v it_o not_o so_o express_v in_o ancient_a author_n but_o that_o the_o very_a practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n be_v sufficient_a to_o stop_n the_o mouth_n of_o any_o contentious_a haeretique_n no_o less_o then_o in_o ancient_a time_n when_o that_o proof_n of_o forego_v writer_n can_v have_v no_o place_n for_o so_o s._n paul_n think_v he_o answer_v sufficient_o for_o defence_n of_o himself_o and_o offence_n of_o his_o contentious_a enemy_n 11._o 1._o cor._n 11._o when_o he_o say_v si_fw-la quis_fw-la videtur_fw-la contentiosus_fw-la esse_fw-la nos_fw-la talem_fw-la consuetudinem_fw-la non_fw-la habemus_fw-la neque_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la dei_fw-la if_o any_o man_n seem_v to_o be_v contentious_a we_o have_v no_o such_o custom_n nor_o the_o church_n of_o god_n and_o so_o much_o more_o may_v we_o now_o say_v of_o our_o long_a continue_a custom_n of_o many_o hundred_o of_o year_n wherefore_o your_o exception_n sir_n humphrey_n against_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n for_o define_v this_o matter_n of_o indulgence_n without_o such_o testimony_n of_o scripture_n &_o antiquity_n as_o you_o require_v be_v vain_a as_o that_o be_v also_o false_a which_o you_o here_o again_o repeat_v that_o a_o article_n of_o faith_n can_v be_v warrantable_a without_o authority_n of_o scripture_n for_o faith_n be_v more_o ancient_a than_o scripture_n for_o to_o say_v nothing_o of_o the_o time_n before_o christ_n faith_n be_v teach_v by_o christ_n himself_o without_o writing_n as_o also_o by_o his_o apostle_n after_o he_o for_o many_o year_n without_o any_o word_n write_v and_o so_o it_o have_v be_v ever_o the_o common_a consent_n of_o all_o holy_a and_o learned_a man_n that_o as_o no_o less_o credit_n be_v to_o be_v give_v to_o the_o apostolical_a preach_n then_o write_v so_o no_o less_o credit_n be_v still_o to_o be_v give_v to_o their_o word_n deliver_v we_o by_o tradition_n then_o by_o their_o writing_n the_o credit_n and_o sense_n even_o of_o their_o writing_n depend_v upon_o the_o same_o tradition_n among_o who_o the_o clean_a contrary_a principle_n be_v as_o certain_a and_o undoubted_a as_o this_o of_o you_o be_v with_o you_o
apostasy_n and_o future_a damnation_n to_o each_o other_o this_o poor_a friar_n repent_v himself_o and_o thereupon_o come_v back_o to_o his_o monastery_n and_o do_v penance_n rather_o choose_v to_o suffer_v a_o little_a outward_a austerity_n then_o to_o carry_v about_o in_o the_o bottom_n of_o his_o soul_n such_o a_o inward_a assure_a testimony_n and_o belief_n of_o his_o eternal_a damnation_n as_o he_o see_v these_o two_o do_v i_o may_v say_v more_o of_o the_o man_n fine_a feat_n but_o there_o be_v book_n in_o dutch_a particular_o of_o they_o as_o i_o hear_v and_o so_o i_o say_v no_o more_o but_o that_o in_o this_o your_o learned_a buxhorne_n who_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n of_o licentiate_a make_v a_o doctor_n as_o in_o all_o your_o other_o learned_a man_n that_o bless_a martyr_n f._n edmund_n campian_n hit_v the_o right_a vein_n and_o discover_v the_o true_a cause_n of_o their_o apostasy_n when_o he_o tell_v the_o university_n man_n it_o be_v not_o any_o chark_n or_o hammer_n that_o hold_v they_o back_o as_o i_o may_v say_v also_o it_o be_v not_o any_o raze_n of_o evidence_n that_o make_v boxhorne_n fall_v from_o his_o faith_n but_o that_o there_o be_v certain_a lutheran_n bait_n wherewith_o many_o of_o they_o be_v catch_v which_o be_v aurum_fw-la gloria_fw-la delitiae_fw-la veneres_fw-la gold_n glory_n delight_n and_o venus_n of_o which_o some_o be_v catch_v with_o one_o some_o with_o another_o and_o so_o you_o see_v this_o your_o learned_a professor_n have_v so_o deep_o swallow_v the_o last_o of_o the_o four_o bait_n that_o it_o make_v his_o stomach_n turn_v at_o the_o catholic_a faith_n which_o exhort_v he_o to_o contemn_v some_o of_o they_o as_o gold_n &_o glory_n and_o force_v he_o to_o forbear_v other_o as_o his_o base_a and_o bestial_a delight_n and_o so_o forsake_v all_o obedience_n to_o humane_a and_o divine_a law_n at_o one_o clapp_n become_v a_o rebel_n to_o his_o prince_n a_o apostata_fw-la to_o religion_n and_o enemy_n to_o the_o catholic_a faith_n therefore_o of_o such_o fellow_n there_o be_v no_o other_o account_n to_o be_v make_v but_o let_v they_o go_v as_o the_o scripture_n say_v of_o one_o of_o their_o chief_a leader_n 2.25_o act._n 2.25_o ut_fw-la abiret_fw-la in_o locum_fw-la suum_fw-la that_o he_o may_v go_v into_o his_o own_o place_n of_o the_o 14._o sect._n the_o title_n whereof_o be_v this_o 14._o chap._n 14._o our_o adversary_n convict_v of_o their_o defence_n of_o a_o desperate_a cause_n by_o their_o blasphemous_a exception_n against_o the_o scripture_n itself_o chapter_n fourteen_o 1._o to_o this_o section_n the_o knight_n give_v a_o beginning_n by_o occasion_n of_o boxhorne_n word_n in_o the_o last_o section_n of_o a_o idol_n in_o the_o temple_n whereupon_o he_o very_o witty_o tell_v we_o that_o when_o we_o see_v the_o abomination_n of_o desolation_n stand_v in_o the_o holy_a place_n we_o must_v fly_v to_o the_o mountain_n of_o the_o scripture_n as_o s._n chrysostome_n say_v but_o yet_o he_o think_v we_o will_v not_o come_v to_o trial_n of_o scripture_n because_o say_v he_o be_v we_o not_o all_o eye_n witness_n that_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n be_v call_v in_o question_n at_o the_o pope_n assize_n and_o there_o arraign_v and_o condemn_v of_o obscurity_n and_o insufficiency_n in_o their_o gospel_n be_v not_o the_o sacred_a bible_n say_v he_o rank_v inter_fw-la libros_fw-la prohibitos_fw-la in_o the_o first_o place_n in_o the_o catalogue_n of_o forbid_a book_n &_o then_o he_o bring_v corn._n agrippa_n complain_v of_o the_o inquisitor_n that_o they_o will_v not_o admit_v man_n to_o prove_v their_o opinion_n by_o scripture_n this_o be_v the_o knight_n discourse_n which_o upon_o examination_n will_v prove_v as_o foolish_a as_o he_o think_v it_o witty_a i_o answer_v therefore_o that_o though_o catholic_n hold_v for_o most_o certain_a that_o the_o scripture_n be_v not_o the_o sole_a rule_n of_o faith_n nor_o that_o out_o of_o it_o alone_o all_o controversy_n can_v be_v decide_v as_o for_o example_n that_o in_o particular_a which_o book_n be_v canonical_a scripture_n which_o not_o yet_o for_o most_o thing_n now_o a_o day_n in_o controversy_n many_o catholic_n have_v offer_v to_o try_v the_o matter_n by_o only_a scripture_n some_o have_v also_o write_v book_n of_o good_a volume_n faith_n anchor_n of_o faith_n to_o show_v the_o scripture_n in_o the_o plain_a and_o obvious_a sense_n to_o make_v positive_o for_o we_o &_o our_o doctrine_n in_o most_o point_n &_o against_o we_o in_o none_o whereof_o a_o man_n may_v also_o have_v a_o brief_a taste_n in_o the_o defence_n of_o the_o censure_n in_o the_o praeface_n in_o these_o point_n follow_v of_o supremacy_n real_a presence_n justification_n absolution_n vow_n tradition_n observance_n of_o the_o commandment_n satisfaction_n prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a prayer_n to_o saint_n etc._n etc._n in_o which_o respect_n therefore_o i_o may_v ask_v you_o sir_n humphrey_n how_o you_o come_v to_o be_v so_o sure_a that_o we_o will_v not_o come_v to_o the_o trial_n of_o scripture_n for_o though_o we_o ground_n many_o point_n upon_o tradition_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n yet_o do_v not_o we_o ground_n other_o upon_o plain_a and_o express_v authority_n of_o scripture_n from_o which_o you_o be_v fain_o to_o fly_v run_v into_o this_o or_o that_o corner_n of_o i_o know_v not_o what_o figurative_a or_o tropical_a interpretation_n or_o even_o deny_v the_o very_a book_n of_o scripture_n nay_o what_o point_n be_v there_o that_o we_o do_v not_o bring_v better_a proof_n out_o of_o scripture_n for_o it_o which_o yet_o we_o need_v not_o than_o you_o can_v bring_v against_o it_o which_o yet_o be_v absolute_o needful_a on_o your_o part_n you_o stand_v so_o upon_o scripture_n as_o you_o do_v 2._o as_o for_o that_o which_o you_o say_v of_o the_o pope_n question_v christ_n &_o his_o apostle_n at_o his_o assize_n for_o obscurity_n and_o insufficiency_n this_o be_v a_o speech_n utter_v i_o suppose_v by_o you_o only_o in_o the_o fervour_n of_o a_o haereticall_a spirit_n wherein_o therefore_o a_o man_n be_v not_o to_o look_v for_o much_o truth_n but_o yet_o i_o may_v ask_v wherein_o i_o pray_v you_o do_v the_o pope_n question_n or_o condemn_v christ_n of_o obscurity_n &_o insufficiency_n what_o have_v christ_n leave_v write_v to_o be_v question_v or_o condemn_v his_o apostle_n &_o evangelist_n indeed_o have_v leave_v some_o thing_n in_o writing_n of_o which_o some_o be_v hard_a even_o by_o the_o judgement_n of_o scripture_n itself_o 3.16_o 2._o pet._n 3.16_o for_o so_o say_v s._n peter_n of_o the_o epistle_n of_o s._n paul_n which_o say_v he_o the_o unlearned_a and_o inconstant_a do_v abuse_v as_o they_o do_v other_o scripture_n to_o their_o own_o perdition_n 14._o aug._n conf._n lib._n 12._o c._n 14._o and_o s._n augustine_n find_v so_o much_o difficulty_n in_o the_o first_o verse_n of_o the_o whole_a scripture_n which_o to_o a_o man_n seem_v be_v as_o easy_a as_o any_o other_o verse_n what_o soever_o that_o he_o be_v fain_o to_o acknowledge_v the_o wonderful_a profoundness_n thereof_o it_o be_v s._n peter_n and_o s._n aug._n therefore_o that_o call_v to_o their_o assize_n if_o you_o will_v needs_o have_v it_o so_o and_o there_o arraign_v and_o condemn_v s._n paul_n &_o moses_n of_o obscurity_n not_o the_o pope_n &_o so_o for_o insufficiency_n if_o any_o body_n condemn_v it_o it_o be_v s._n john_n in_o say_v that_o 2.14_o 2._o thess_n 2.14_o all_o thing_n be_v not_o write_v &_o s._n paul_n in_o willing_a the_o thessalonians_n to_o hold_v the_o tradition_n which_o they_o have_v learn_v whither_o by_o speech_n or_o letter_n by_o word_n of_o mouth_n or_o writing_n they_o be_v the_o apostle_n &_o doctor_n of_o the_o church_n that_o acknowledge_v that_o hardness_n of_o scripture_n or_o what_o soever_o it_o be_v which_o your_o worship_n be_v please_v to_o call_v insufficiency_n what_o impertinent_a flaunt_n be_v this_o then_o in_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n to_o tell_v we_o the_o pope_n question_v christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n to_o talk_v thus_o of_o assize_n and_o arraign_v as_o if_o you_o will_v have_v we_o know_v you_o be_v the_o son_n of_o a_o grand-iuror_n who_o it_o be_v pity_n you_o do_v not_o succeed_v in_o the_o place_n since_o you_o have_v the_o term_n so_o ready_a in_o your_o mouth_n 3._o but_o to_o let_v that_o pass_n i_o likewise_o answer_v you_o for_o our_o rank_v the_o bible_n in_o the_o first_o place_n of_o prohibit_v book_n as_o you_o say_v we_o do_v that_o it_o be_v false_a and_o false_a again_o for_o it_o be_v not_o in_o the_o catalogue_n of_o such_o book_n only_o in_o the_o rule_n which_o concern_v the_o index_n there_o be_v mention_v how_o the_o free_a use_n of_o vulgar_a translation_n be_v not_o to_o be_v permit_v 4._o reg._n 4._o but_o for_o the_o latin_a vulgar_a translation_n there_o be_v no_o manner_n