Selected quad for the lemma: ground_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
ground_n	church_n	faith_n	pillar_n	2,322	5	10.2633	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A52138	Plain-dealing, or, A full and particular examination of a late treatise, entituled, Humane reason by A.M., a countrey gentleman.	Marvell, Andrew, 1621-1678.	1675 (1675)	Wing M876; ESTC R23029	77,401	164

was true which he can never prove that God would not punish us for our wilful errours yet since the consequence of errours doth naturally lead us into the most damnable sins it therefore behooveth us if we tender our eternal happiness to take care to preserve our selves from errour which may be not only of dangerous but of damnable consequence to us What then is the wisest way for the most of men to guard themselves from these dangers This is a question well worth our consideration if we think we have such souls in us as are endangered by errour to be eternally lost and miserable What then must the common people here amongst us the greatest part of which have scarce reason enough to demonstrate themselves to be men do to secure themselves I answer It is the safest way for them to relie upon the Church especially in all matters of indifferency and of unnecessary disputes and upon some of those Guides which the Church hath lawfully called and authorized in all cases of conscience For since as this Gentleman tells us many nay most of men and the wisest of men have erred though they have had all the advantages to improve their reasons that this world could afford them how should any ordinary man who is void of all helps but his own natural reason dare to rely upon it alone in business of so great concern as his eternal happiness or misery Especially since he doth not think it convenient to rely upon it in business of lesser concern viz. That of his health or estate Now I appeal to all men that in difficult cases do consult their Lawyer and Physician whether they do not think it safer to rely upon their judgements then to be governed only by themselves they must say they do so else they were mad to consult them and give them mony for nothing So that this Author hath the suffrage of all wise men against his opinion when he tells us that upon the account of safety we ought to commit our selves wholly to our own reason in the search of truth Nay I will refer it to himself and challenge him upon his reputation if he hath any left to tell me whether his own practise doth not contradict his opinion that is whether or n● he consults his own reason and commits himself wholly to the guidance of it in cases that concern his life and estate or whether he is guided by the Doctor and the Barrister To this perhaps he will answer that he limits his discourse to the serch of Religious truths in which it is most safe for us to rely upon our own Reason But I pray you Sir why not then in all other can you shew me any cause of difference If you say because Religion is grounded upon probabilities I Answer so is Physick upon much more uncertainty then Religion and the Law is no less built upon uncertainties in many cases which have not been determined by presidents But suppose that religious matters are more intricate and obscure and less certain then other things since errours in Religion are no less dangerous to our Souls then errours in Law and Physick are to our Estates and Lives if we believe we have any souls We ought then to be more carefull to consult our Guides of Conscience then we are to take advice of our Lawyer or Physician But experience and practise is the best teacher Let us now suppose every private person to be wholly committed to the guidance of his own reason according to this Author's Doctrine and let us see what safety he enjoys thereby For then supposing he meets with a cunning Gentleman from Rome that hath been brought up in all advantages of Learning and Education that should baffle his reason for the defence of Protestantism then if he will act rationally he must presently turn Papist and so vice versâ The same thing would also hold if he should be baffled by any Jesuit under the disguise of any other Sectary whatsoever for he must so often change his Religion as he meets with more crafty Disputants than himself By which means he might every hour have a several religion and change so often till at last he had quitted all religion and turn'd Atheist which we see to be the ordinary consequence of frequent changes Nay further suppose he meets with some subtle Jesuit in disguise whose business it is to convert men first to debauchery then to Atheism and so by degrees to Popery who should baffle all his reasons for the practice of vertue nay for the immortality of his Soul and for the being of God as it may well be suppos'd where there is so great a difference in the advantages of the persons What then will become of him if he commits himself only to the guidance of his own reason he must then presently commence Brute and believe that he hath no more soul then his horse or any other beast and that he shall die and perish like one of them nay he must turn Atheist and not only deny the Lord that bought him but that God that made him and so be left altogether without any excuse Is not this person now very safe think you under the guidance of his own reason If therefore it be safe for us to run into Popery Heresie and Atheism let us follow our own Reasons and wholly commit our selves to our own guidance if not Let us follow the Church of England and those guides which she hath set over us in all difficult cases of which we our selves can be no competent judges and when we are press'd with any argument for a change in our religion which we are not able to answer let us repair to our own lawful Minister or to some other that shall direct us for a satisfaction of our doubts and objections And though this may seem a Paradox in this Age of Schism and Faction yet the relying on the Church is the very same direction that St. Paul gives 2 Tim. 3. 15. where he calls the Church of God The pillar and ground of truth For if so then all that are Christians ought to rely upon this pillar and to build their faith upon that which is the ground of truth But I know he there means the Universal Church But you 'l say how should I who am an illiterate person or a private Gentleman and understand not the languages in which the Scriptures and other Church writings are pen'd know what the Doctrine of the Universal Church is for I am not able to search for the Christian Doctrine my self I answer Read the Scriptures in English and practise those things that are plain and easie in them and as for difficult disputes either let them quite alone or else consult in all difficulties the directions of your own Church the Church of England by those guides which she hath set over you But may not these deceive me too as well as my own Reason I Answer It is

to pay obedience to them upon this pretence that he is to be guided only by his own Reason I appeal to this Author himself whether he would be satisfied with this answer or whether he would not if it lay in his power turn such a refractory Fellow out of his society unless he did conform himself to the Orders and Statutes of it If not it would be impossible for him to maintain the Society if he would expel him he clearly proves that the Principle on which he seems to build his whole Book is not to be allowed to any person that is subject to the Laws of any Society If he shall say that therefore he added those limitations if it take such directions as it ought and may do c. I would fain know in any Society who shall be Judge whether or no every Member of it doth rightly limit his Reason shall the Person himself or the Governour of the Society If the Person himself then the limitations signifie nothing and the Society would soon signifie as little if the Governour must be so far Judge as to punish those Actions that are done contrary to the Statutes and Orders of the place then why should not the Governours of the Church be allowed the same power I cannot see any Reason at all unless we are arrived at that madness to think it indifferent whether the Church be dissolved or up held or whether we have any Religion in our Nation or none at all I would not be one of that number who should dispute against the power and priviledges of Humane Reason for no man loves Reason better then my self nor would I assert any such Priviledge to exempt men from Laws or from the publick exercise of Religion For I think nothing can be more unreasonable and yet I am deceived if I have not proved that this Assertion which is the whole sum of our Authors Book is of that nature But he hath one killing Argument that like a two-edged Sword doth execution both ways with which he strikes all dead that dare oppose him And this it is page 3. They that dispute most against Reason do it because their own Reason perswades them to that belief c. This is just such a mortal Argument as the Papists use to prove that the Church is the onely Rule of Faith For say they whoso denies this and asserts the Scripture to be the Rule of Faith can have no Authority nor Ground for their belief of the Scripture but the Authority of the Church and therefore we ought to believe as the Church teacheth us and not as the Scripture But the Answer is not very hard to be made to the Romanists It is true indeed the reason why we believe the four Gospels and the Epistles to be the Writings of those Divinely-inspired persons whose Names they bear must be this because they have been so received by the Church in all Ages and the reason why we believe those Miracles were done as they are related in Scripture must be from the constant Testimony of the Universal Church and from these Miracles we are sure they were written by persons inspired by God and consequently that they are the Rule by which we are to walk Thus the Authority of the Church onely leads us to the Scriptures as an infallible Rule and leaves us there to be guided by them and not by the Church any further then her Commands are agreeable to the Commands of God contained in the Scriptures Neither is the Answer much different nor much more difficult to our Authors dead-doing Demonstration for though Reason must direct us to a Rule by which we are to act yet when we have once found out such a Rule as our Reason assures us is Infallible we then ought to govern our selves no longer by our bare Reason but by our Reason guided by that Rule and to act those things not that Reason onely doth direct us but such things as our Infallible Rule commands us So that we see Reason is so far from being our onely Guide that it directly leads us to the Scriptures and leaves us to be directed by them by which it confesseth that it self ought to be guided If the Author shall now say that I have mistaken his Notion and that his intention in this Book was onely to bring Men into their right wits and make Men consider the reasonableness of the Religion of the Church of England and consequently conform themselves to it I shall say no more then this to him that I wish he had made this Design more apparent that our Dissenters might not have joyn'd in the mistake of his Book and have construed it to the countenancing all Divisions and that he had not given by the whole contrivance of his Book so just cause of this scandal to them For the Book hath in most parts a double face that like Janus his looks two directly contrary ways at once and therefore we may justly suspect a double mind and some double dealings in the Author but this I must needs say for him that he hath ingeniously contrived it for like an armed Amazonian beauty it casts a pleasing look and seems to smile upon every one that looks on it and yet it bears about it the instruments of death I onely make this my request to him if he writes again that he would shew the World more of his honesty though less of his ingenuity by speaking plain truth but not Oracles that may be interpreted to comply with contradictions and lest he should mistake my Design I will deal plainly and tell him what it is viz. to do the duty of an honest English Gentleman and a good Christian by doing my endeavours according to my small abilities to preserve the Unity of the Church of England into which I was baptized I shall therefore endeavour to free the minds of all impartial Readers from those mistakes that might arise from this Book I am now examining To which end because some may perhaps be drawn into a maze by reading it as the Author was in writing it I shall endeavour to shew them the way out of it by walking along with them step by step and so letting them see the way back again by the same steps as they were at first led into it And now to my Task The Gentleman foreseeing as well he might that many Objections would be raised against him in the first place applies himself to ward them off Pag. 3. 4. Object 1. He thus proposeth That many of the greatest Wits have by following their own Opinions encreased the Catalogue of Heresies To this he answers That these men either followed not their own Reason but their Wills or first hood-winkt their Reason by interest and prejudice or passion c. All this I easily grant is truth but now I appeal to this Author himself whether he doth not believe that the number of those that follow their Wills more then their

that it might be impossible to make Religion a pretence of Rebellion and this directly leads me to the next Reason against our Author's Politicks viz Thirdly That there is no Religion under Heaven doth better I might say so well secure the publick Peace as ours of the Church of England For can any Religion be more peaceable then that which makes resistance to Magistrates in any case whatsoever to be a most damnable crime then that Doctrine that tends to the highest perfection of our Humane Natures that brings our bodies under the subjection of our souls and both under subjection to God that exalts our nature from being like the Beasts that perish and makes us partakers of the Divine nature by rooting our those lusts and vices that cause war and strife amongst us and by planting in us all those heavenly Graces that would secure the peace of the world and make us like unto God and fit to enjoy him to all Eternity that most conduceth to the good of all Mankind that establisheth peace unity and universal charity amongst all men that preserves the quiet of Families the tranquility of our Souls and the health of our bodies In sum can any Religion better promote the peace of our Nation then that which commands every man to do all the good he can to every man and proposeth infinite and eternal Rewards to those that obey it that forbids all manner of evil towards any man under pain of the greatest most inevitable and eternal torments and makes not the least allowance for the least of evils either in thought word or deed Have we not seen the peaceable effects of our Church and her Doctrine in the time of the late miserable wars amongst us For not one true Son of the Church of England could ever be forced by the fear of penalties or ever be allured by the hopes of Reward to take up Arms against his Sovereign Whereas there is no other sort of men in England but too many of them were guilty even of actual Rebellion being led into it even by the very Principles of their Religion Why then should this Religion be removed from the minds of men would it promote peace to take away that which is the grand Foundation of it and to implant in the room of it principles of all kind of sedition and disobedience Would it preserve his sacred Majesty and our Laws to destroy that Church which is their greatest defence Is it forgotten already how true our late sad experience prov'd it No Church no King and no King no Laws May not our Church therefore justly say to those that would destroy her as our Saviour did to those that would have ston'd him for which of these good works t●at I have done amongst you would you now kill me This our Politician saw well enough and is forced to confess it in that he saith Unity in Religion would produce the same effect as that Principle which he propos'd But now let us consider that which is the main Design of his Book which he proposeth instead of the Church of England to maintain peace and quietness in our Nation Which we have p. 79. viz. That this should be made the main and general Ground of all Religions that every man should quietly enjoy his own I remember a Fable in AEsop to this purpose The Mice were in a grand consultation how to preserve themselves from their mortal Foes the Cats at length after a long and serious Debate one of them who like our Author thought himself a better Politician then all the rest very gravely gives them this wise advice That every Cat should wear a Bell about his Neck that so they might be warn'd of his coming by the Sound and might have time to provide for their safety This Advice no doubt was approv'd as very safe by all the company as this Gentlemans Proposal is by all his wise Admirers but at last one sawcy Mouse spoils all with onely asking this Question as a man might ask our Author viz. How this Advice should be put in Execution which made them all break up their Council-board with a loud laughter at the folly of their Counsellour whose great wisdom they did just before so much admire Against our Sir Pol's Advice besides the impossibility of the Proposal I may urge the General consent of all or most of the Nations in the whole world For let him or any man produce if he can any one Monarchy under Heaven in which the publick exercise of every mans particular Religion is allowed him where there is no standing Army to keep the people in obedience so that it is most evident that in every Nation either a standing Army or the establishment of an Unity in Religion is absolutely necessary for publick Peace and Safety Now whether it will be thought more convenient for the Peace of England to uphold the Church or to submit to the Long Sword I refer it to all English Gentlemen to judge If our Author shall say he means onely the private exercise of every man's Religion I answer that no Nation nor Church in the whole world allows a greater liberty in the private exercise of Religion then we have For is it not established by Act of Parliament that every man shall have liberty to exercise his own Religion not only with those of his own family but with five more strangers so that it is not for Religion but for the contempt of the Laws and for endangering by unlawful and numerous assemblies the peace and welfare of our nation that any one is or can be punished by our Laws This our Politician cannot be ignorant of and therefore he must mean not the private but the publick exercise of every mans Religion It may be this Gentleman is an experimental Philosopher and is therefore induced to try experiments in Religion and Politicks as well as in Naturals though he thereby hazards the safety of a whole Nation I will now as far as can be try it with him by granting him what he would have as to the last part of it for the first is altogether impossible and by letting him see the consequence of it in those Sects amongst us Suppose then that some men onely pretend Religion to gather parties together to set up a Common-wealth instead of the best Form of Government in the whole world which we now have established amongst us as it is to be feared most of our Phanaticks do especially the main leaders and abettors of them for though I will not say all dissenters from the Church are for a Commonwealth in the State yet this I believe our experience and observation may prove true that all Common-wealths-men are Schismaticks or at least favourers of Schism and Faction and great sticklers for a Toleration and are not these precious Youths think you to be tolerated in a Monarchy and would not it much conduce to the safety of the Monarchy to let them meet by