the Cathedrall and parishionall Assemblies can be assured by the word of God that they ioyne to the former ordeined by Christ and not to the latter devised by man even the man of sinne for the worship and service of God Now reducing our cause to these heads if it were so that I erred in one of them is therefore our cause betrayed Or should my particular error be imputed to the whole Church or reputed the betraying of our generall cause Is there not difference to be put between erring through ignorance if this were an errour and betraying with knowledge Or if this maner of reasoning which he vseth might be admitted who can deny but the Protestants of England and of all sorts have an hundred and an hundred tymes betrayed their own cause and overthrovven the very drift of their owne writings And if they think it not of weight against them for their multitude of knowen errours with what face can it be vrged against vs for one supposed errour 3. For the description it self which was given of a visible Church I still hold it to be good It was thus A true visible Church of Christ is a company of faithfull people by the word of God called out from the vvorld and the false vvayes thereof gathered together in fellovvship of the Gospell by a voluntary profession of the faith and obedience of Christ. This is the description which he would proue to be false partly by gathering my meaning thereof in other places of that other books partly and particularly by my judgment concerning the Israelites in Egypt spoken of in the Ans. to Mâ— Ia. pag. 47. Where before I answer him let me advertise the Reader that if there be any weight in this exception it was found out not by Th. White as by his book might be supposed but by some of the Ministers in VViltshire specially by one Mr Io. Ie. and other his fellowes there who have bestowed much labour in reading our writings vvhether for love to the truth or that they might finde somewhat thereby the more to cavill against it let their walking and dealing shew VVhose disciple novv this White is become having heretofore stood as opposite against them as white is to black Now therfore to answer them all vnder one I will write somewhat touching this matter referring the further handling of it if there be need till some other adversaries with whom we haâ—â— to deale concerning it and the other heads of our cause give further occasion Two things as I said about this description are specially noted and vrged the first about the meaning the other about my vvriting of the Israelites in Egypt For the first the meaning is plaine by the words themselues and by the drift of that and all other of our booâ—s as may appeare not onely by the places here cited by him but by many other compared together and particularly by an expresse declaration annexed vnto it in our Apologie against the Oxf Doct. pag. 36.44.45 Yet now againe to explane and proue the truth of that description I will here treat a litle more thereof To esteem and describe aright a true visible Church we must look especially to two things 1. the calling of Christ 2. the covenant and coÌ„munion of the Church To Christ his calling like as the Apostles every where describe the Churches according to it As namely the Churches of Ephesus Corinth Rome c. For which see these Scriptures Rom. 1.5.6.7 1 Cor. 1.2.9.24 Gal. 1.6 5.8.13 Ephe. 1.1 with 4.1.4 Col. 3.15 1 Thes. 2.12 5.24 2 Thes. 1.11 2.14 Heb. 3.1 1 Pet. 1.15 2.9.21 2 Pet. 1.1.3 Iude ver 1. Now it caÌ„not be denyed but Christs calling of his Churches people is vnto the whole faith of the Gospell willing obedience thereof fâ—oÌ„ all evill iniquity that is any way repugnant therevnto therefore froÌ„ the false worship wayes of the vvorld whatsoever they be or wheresoever And herevpon did the Apostles reproue the Churches still when they fell into any sinne eyther against the first or second Table as not walking worthy the holy calling whervnto they were called in Christ and required of them also obedience to all the coÌ„maundements ordinances of Christ fâ—oÌ„ tyme to tyme. Therefore should White and his teachers have better observed that clause of the description aforesaid by the vvord of God called out etc. So might they have perceived if they had love to the truth both that the description is good and that the abberrations of true Chuâ—ches are so far from proving it any way false as they do in deed approue the truth of it in asmuch as the verie being of a Church by the calling of Christ requireth of them to walk otherwise Another thing that we are to look vnto yet also depending vpon the former is the Churches covenant and coÌ„munion This covenant is to be considered as made by them vnto the Lord and one with another to walk together in the truth of the Gospell in all the coÌ„maundements and ordinances of the Lord And therefore to forsake and avoid whatsoever is there against As may appeare by these Scriptures Exod. 19.3 8. 2 King 23.2.3 Esa. 2.2.3 14.1 and 44.5 Ier. 50.4.5 Act. 2.41.42.47 and 11.21.24 Rom. 12.5 2 Cor. 9.13 Ephes. 4.4.5.6 Phil. 1.1.5 Therefore also the description aforesaid is good And so might the adversaries haue perceived if they had well observed that other clause therein of being gathered and ioyned together in fellowship of the Gospell c. And what els is it that giveth the being to a true visible Church but the calling of Christ the Churches covenant according thervnto Wherevpon in a true Church may and ought these things following alway to be observed 1. That it hath Christ alone for the Mediatour that is for the Prophet Priest and King thereof 2. That it is to be accounted the spouse and body of Christ the househould citie and kingdome of God the ground and pillar o truth a Church of Saints c. 3. That the promises and pledges of Gods covenant presence blessing do appertayne vnto them in that estate 4. That it apperteyneth to Christ to remove his Candlestick take away his kingdome from a Church when and as he pleaseth 5. That every true visible Church hath authority and power froÌ„ Christ to receive in members willingly professing the same faith with them to cast out obstinate offenders from among them 6. That the want or transgression of Christs ordinances doth not simply or presently disanull them from being a true Church For example When a people are so called and covenanted as aforesaid though yet they have none in office amoÌ„g theÌ„ eyther Pastors Teachers Elders etc. they are notwithstanding a true visible Church And by their calling and covenant they have power in Christ as he giveth them fit men and meanes to chuse and enjoy these as any other of his ordinances Likewise
office and the thing before this tyme not knowen to the Church concerning him although if it had bene knowen consideration were to be had of the nature of the thing done of the condition of the person of the estate of the Church and other the like circumstances to be observed thereabout that both before and after his being in office he had well approved himself to and with the Church to the great help comfort of vs all c. 2. Yet notwithstanding they persisted and left of to participate with the Church in all his ministration therin 3. We entreated them that they would not so walk but to continew with vs as before at least till we might eyther among our selves or by others have further help and dealing about this matter but they would not Wherevpon they were for this leaving of communion with the Church together with other causes which he noteth not cast out and some of them a good while synce vpon their repentance received in againe For that which he saith of not answering the reasons in writing note these things 1. We were absent from the Church when we wrote the reasons aforesaid in a letter sent hither but now were here present with the Church to speak mouth to mouth with any that did or should make question thereabout 2. We also signified that if it were so that we were absent having like occasion as before we would then write as before we had done but being now present to speak and reason together we thought it best so to do Not to speak any thing now of the persons and their dealing that would have it otherwise 3. Yet when the matter was still vrged we further advised agreed about it of some particular circuÌ„stances or cautions to be observed therin Which were set down in writing and given to the ruling Elders for any that would come to read or reason thereabout And vpon occasion we gave the same also in writing to the Eldership of the Dutch Church here These things T. White himself knoweth and heretofore thought it sufficient to satisfy any that were reasonable howsoever now he write thereof And where he saith we would not suffer the reasons to be read in our meeting being requested there vnto sometimes in deed we did not suffer it wishing the parties that were contrary minded vnto vs to shew their reasons out of the word of God whether they were those conteyned in that writing or any other and so to reason from that ground which is the onely rule of our faith sometimes also for the more satisfying of all they were both read and reasoned of in our publik meeting As for playing Sathans part let him apply it to himself who hath heretofore both by word and writing out of the Scriptures approved our cause against the Antichristian estate of the Church of England and having now left and oppugning it yet hath not nor ever can vse as good meanes to disprove it and to approve the estate of that Church whither he is returned With whom also it is so common throughout his book to obiect against vs things very false to conceale or deprave the things he knoweth to be good and all this to calumniate the truth and vs that wiâ—nesse it before the world For that which he annexeth of Mr Ad. such as were here present do neyther remember it nor think it to be true howsoever he affirme it And if it had so bene yet who knoweth not that alteration of practise doth vsually follow alteration of judgement And if in other cases why not in this also Finally we do here know but in part are subiect to erre both in our judgment and in our walking as I deny not but in these things thus much vrged vpon vs we may have done Yet our desire hath bene and I trust shal be alway to try all things by the word of God and to keep that which is good 4. The fourth instance is of W.A. cast out for recalling a former Schisme spoken of a little before in his first instance Whatsoever W.A. now say the Church heard and see what then he spake did If he do still repent of that Schisme standing to the acknowledgemeÌ„t he made that matter is soone ended To the writing of Th. White and others about this matter this answer was given by the Elders which the messengers can testify that it being about excomunicatioÌ„ it was a matter which coÌ„cerned the whole body of the Church and therefore if they had any thing to say thereabout they should come to the Church at our publick meeting and there they should have an answer But thither came they not So themselves kept back an answer from themselves And still Th. VVhite keepeth on his course to write falselie What the schisme here spoken of was whereabout see before pag. 65. As for appealing seing it is from an inferior Iudge to a superiour we hold it Antichristian to enterteyne or admit of such appeales from one Church to another because Christ the Lord hath given like equall power authority to all his Churches on the earth Yet notwithstanding may and ought one Church to help another by any good meanes they can as there is occasion But what is this to the appealing and tryall whereof he speaketh when such as be excoÌ„municated by this Church would have their matters and the like submitted to the Dutch and French Churches here or any other els where For which themselves could not by the word of God shew any warrant And against which we had have these reasons following 1. That the Iudge which God hath ordeyned in these cases is to be submitted vnto and not to any other Deut. 17.8.9.10.11.12 2. That the highest Iudge ordeyned now of the Lord for all sinners by Ecclesiasticall censure is the Church even that particular Church whereof the sinner is a member Mat. 18.17 with 1 Cor. 5.4.5.12.13 3. That all Churches of Christ haue equall power and are not one over another but have Christ himself over all and in middest of all Rev. 1.13 2.1 And therefore in vrging our Church to submit to another Church they sought to draw it into AntichristiaÌ„ bondage which we might by no meanes yeeld vnto Gal. 5.1 Rev. 14.9.12 4. The sinne and sinner being bound in heaven how may the cause be submitted to men on earth Mat. 18.18 5. If the censures of the Church then also other doctrines of the Gospell our faith in Christ might aswell by the same ground be brought to like submission 6. It is contrary also to the Confession of our faith published Artic. 24.25 7. And this way there would be no end of strife for if the two Churches disagreed a third higher must be sought vnto by like reason and if yet they agreed not an higher then that and thus might the vsurped Supremacy of the Romish Church and Pope grow and be established 8. Finally if we might
is When ye pray say Our Father c. And so the Apostles and Christians in all ages haue sinned when they prayed and said it not Yea and these men themselues do aboue all other transgresse herein who pray many tymes without vsing of it and yet think it to be Christs expresse commaundement which is neyther against reason nor proportion of faith Yet also when they shall haue considered that it conteyneth all things whatsoever from the beginning of the world to the end thereof haue bene or can be asked aright by any it would be knowen with what reason or proportion of faith any particular person or Church can so vse it as they speak without speciall explication and application of the severall heads to them selues and their present occasions Secondly he saith our opinion is contrary to the tenour of the words having the forme of a prayer in all things as Our Father give vs and Amen annexed in the end vvhich shevves that they are petitions not positions or rules vvhich are set dovvn in an other forme Mat. 7.7 21.22 1 Ioh. 5.14 Ansvv. If it be intended by the tenour of the words having the forme of a prayer that it should be so vsed then besides the answers already made I ask VVhether we should vse it as it is set downe by Mathevv or by Luke For Luke doth not onely vary from Mathevv in divers words but also omitteth the whole Conclusion yea and the word Amen which is here alledged for a proof that it is so to be vsed as is aforesaid But in deed other vse may be made then these men do of the propounding it thus by way of petitions rather then of positions or rules as in other places is done Namely that Christ hereby would shew the right maner of praying vnto God that we may with confidence come and speak vnto him in our prayers propoūding our requests holily carefully reverendly without babling according to our severall occasions c. And so meeteth with the manifold errours that in the vse of prayer haue crept into the world as may be seen among the Papists Neutral-Protestants Anabaptists Adamians Euchetians and other hereticks Idolaters superstitious and ignorant people some thinking that we should not our selues come directly to God in prayer but vse the mediation of some Saints or Angels c. others that reading on a book is prayer to God though it be of other mens words prescribed vnto vs others that we should repeat the same things over againe and agayne others that we should vse sighs without words others that we should not pray vnto God at all seing he knoweth what we need and others that we should ever be praying giving no place eyther to other exercises of religion or to any labour of the hands c. All which and the like heresies and abuses of the heavenly and most comfortable vse of prayer Christ hath prevented and condemned by this his direction for prayer propounded after the forme and maner aforesaid 3. Thirdly he saith our opiniō is contrary to the vse of al Christians that we read of as before out of Tertullian and others may be alleadged Answ. Then is it contrary to the vse of the Apostles and Primitive Churches of whom we read in the Scriptures Which if any could shew that alone would end the question whereas the vse testimony of any other persons Churches or ages cannot do it As Tertullian himself sheweth when he saith That is truest which is first that is first which is from the beginning that is from the beginning which is from the Apostles But now admitting his proofs were good that the Lords prayer as it is called were to be vsed as a prayer yet were it then further needfull to be knowen whether it be Christs cōmaundement that we should vse it for our prayer alone by it self or that we should ioyne it with other prayers conceived by our selues withall If he say we should vse it alone his owne testimony out of Tertullian besides their own practise is against him who saith that it being premised as a foundation other petitions may be built there vpō And if he say we should ioyne it with the other prayers conceived by our selues the practise and testimony of the Apostles is against him For which see Mat. 8.25 Act. 1.24.25 and 4.24 30. Phil. 1.3.4.9.10.11 4.6 1 Thess. 5.17.18.19.23 2. The second thing is that he saith we hold it not lawfull for the innocent parties to reteyne the offender as the wife her husband or the husband his wife if eyther partie haue committed adultery no though the innocent party vpon the others repentance forgiving the others sinne be desirous still to live vvith the other party in the mariage covenant as before but haue excommunicated the parties innocent for so doing This in deed we haue held the most of vs heretofore and some of vs are so perswaded still And while we were generally so mynded we also held it our duty accordingly to walk taking the innocent partie that reteyned such offenders though vpon their repentance yet to be defiled and to liue in sinne with them as coupling themselues with an harlot But since vpon further consideration of this question discussing it among our selves when we could not fynde divorce in the Scriptures any where commaunded but permitted onely and that such offenders repenting thereof are not to be reputed in that case of harlots but to be washed from their sinne justifyed in Iesus Christ we have vpon these and other like reasons altered our former judgement and now haue thus observed and agreed thus concerning this matter That where the Magistrates inflict not death vpon such offenders as by the law of God they should it is in the liberty and power of the innocent party eyther for that crime to put away the offender or vpon their repentance to reteyne them But this with these cautions 1. So as themselues were no meanes or cause of the others so transgressing 2. That they be no nourishers of them in the like for tyme to come 3. That this remission and acceptance of the offender by the innocent party be done before sufficient winesses 4. That this also as the mariage at the first be alway in the Lord. And for the Churches the Ministers dutie therein that it is onely to teach and require of them repentance after the example of Christ Ioh. 8.10.11 or els to see them cast out of the Church according to the Apostles doctrine 1 Cor. 5.11.12.13 This is that which now the most of vs do think concerning this question being notwithstanding ready to heare if any can shew vs better frō the word of God which is the ground and rule of the constitution of our Church Touching the case and excommunication of H. C. and E. H. his wife of which he speaketh both here and afterward againe how will he prove the persons spoken of to be repentant
faith Howsoever therefore we haue erred or may erre in judgment or practise as we and all men in this life are alway subiect to do yet doth it not therefore follow eyther that the description aforesaid is not good or that we are not a true Church notwithstanding Further towching our selues we acknowledge professe before all men that divers things heretofore obserued amoÌ„g vs at the first we have since altered and do from tyme to time alter and amend as God giveth vs by his word to discerne better therein Yea and herevnto are we bound and haue power in Christ even by the constitution of our Church So free from all false wayes is the constitution it self and yet we that are in it subiect to erre notwithstanding many wayes So far are we also from the straunge opinion and impietie of them that having in this latter age of the world disclaymed the Popâ—s person and recâ—ivâ—d some truthes of the Gospell yet reteyning many abhominations of Antichrist withall would now stand still and admit of no further proceeding or alteration among them As if they had at first seen received the whole truth and all the ordinances of Christ. Or as if Antichrist should not now by degrees be discovered and consumed as heretofore he rose vp and was exalted 2 Thes. 2. Rev. 14. and 17. and 18. and 19. chap. with Ier. 51.25.26.45.46 And now by that which hath bene said let the Reader obserue whether this fellow haue not entrapped himself and his mother Church while he thought to haue ensnared vs. Neyther let any be so simple as to give credit in the cause of religion to any further or otherwise but as warrant and confirmation is brought out of the word of God which is the ground and rule of all trueth nor to refuse that which is approved by it for the aberration opposition or calumniation of any whosoever they be His abuse both here and other where in his book of that which we haue published in print I leave also to the Reader to observe and for himself to answer to him that knoweth his heart As for I. N. whom he nameth in particular more then others whom he would insinuate for borrowing and making no conscience to pay againe he hath called him before the Magistrates here as others before mentioned affirming offring to shew how in the very particular alledged by White when he was here demaunded his proof for thus divulging him he hath offred his creditour goods sufficient for his debt with overplus and having had to deale with him for much hath satisfyed all to a little yet remayning having also had hindrance by the sicknes and otherwise And for the generall we acknowledg that men ought to be carefull both how they borrow and how they pay againe and should measure these as all other affaires with judgment and conscience according to godlynes Psal. 37.21 and 112.5 Rom. 13.8 And we know also that yet notwithstanding it is the case sometime of men fearing God not onely to be but even to dy in debt As we read of one of the sonnes of the Prophets 2 King 4.1 But all this which hitherto he hath said being not ynough eyther for the vent of his owne rancour and malice against vs or to please our adversaries whose favour he would purchase by traducing of vs he now further pretendeth to frame an opposition between our practise the Treatise entituled A true description out of the vvord of God of the visible Church thus setting himself to seek and abuse against vs whatsoever he can out of any of our writings To shew his wicked dealing herein as it is would require to insist vpon the particulars of that description and to compare therewith the estate and walking of our Church that would aske a long treatise which here I purpose not It shall suffice that the Reader especially such as haue knowledg of our Church which he blameth and of the Church of England to which he is returned do compare them both with that description and accordingly esteem of both as he shall fynd the estate of them to be in deed and in truth Thereby also will plainely appeare how this adversarie neither writeth nor walketh in the feare of God to whom notwithstanding he must giue account of al these things And for the particulars he mentioneth that the equitie of our cause and iniquitie of his dealing may better appeare I will in the treating of them first set down the words of that description from whence he would draw his opposition and then speak of the particulars themselues And first for the body of the Church considered in her parts as here he would seem to except against vs from one to another through the severall parts of this body thus it is set downe in that description of a true Church Pag. 2. Suerly if this Church be considered in her parts it shall appeare most beautifull yea most wonderfull and even ravishing the senses to conceive much more to behold what then to enioy so blessed a communion For behold her King and Lord is the King of peace and Lord himself of all glorie She enioyeth most holy and heavenly lawes most faithfull vigilant Pastours most sincere pure Teachers most carefull and vpright Governours most diligent and trustie Deacons most loving and sober Relievers and a most humble meek obedient faithfull loving people every stone living elect and precious every stone hath his beautie his burden and his order All bound to edify one another exhort reproue comfort one another lovingly as to their owne members faithfully as in the eyes of God Thus it standeth in that description Towching which now I would aske 1. Whether he hold this description herein to be true and agreable to the word of God 2. Whether he dare deny Iesus Christ to be the King and Lord of our Church 3. Whether he acknowledg him onely to be the King Lord of every true visible Church vpon the earth 4. Whether these be the Offices and functions which he as Lord and King hath appointed to his Church namely Pastors Teachers Elders Deacons Relievers 5. Whether these be had in the Church of England to which he is now gone and in whom they are there to be found 6. Whether the Church Officers there be so qualified as here is set downe 7. Finally whether if any would compare the estate of that Church in the body officers members lawes and walking thereof with the description of a true visible Church out of the word of God he might not make another maner treatise and other maner of obiections against them then this Priest of theirs doth against vs. But to proceed for the Pastor with which office he beginneth first thus are his qualities and duties set down in that descriptioÌ„ of a true Church Pag. 3. Their Pastour must be apt to teach no yong Schâ—ler able to divide the word aright holding fast that