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ground_n you_o say_v true_o that_o they_o be_v your_o ground_n they_o manifest_v of_o themselves_o be_v your_o four_o and_o five_o proposition_n fisher_n i_o find_v first_o that_o he_o grant_v the_o first_o three_o without_o any_o exception_n which_o i_o desire_v may_v be_v diligent_o note_v and_o well_o ponder_v rogers_n how_o i_o admit_v they_o appear_v by_o my_o answer_n i_o deliver_v they_o more_o brief_o and_o more_o perspicuous_o than_o you_o do_v thus_o and_o in_o this_o sense_n the_o three_o first_o proposition_n i_o admit_v 1._o that_o there_o be_v one_o faith_n 2._o the_o ordinary_a propagation_n of_o this_o faith_n be_v by_o pastor_n lawful_o call_v 3._o that_o there_o have_v be_v and_o must_v be_v in_o all_o age_n pastor_n so_o lawful_o call_v this_o i_o conceive_v to_o be_v the_o meaning_n of_o your_o three_o first_o proposition_n without_o any_o diminution_n neither_o do_v you_o except_v against_o it_o as_o for_o your_o parenthesis_n viz._n as_o appear_v by_o history_n 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and_o the_o only_a way_n to_o wave_v contention_n about_o word_n and_o come_v to_o reality_n find_v a_o ambiguous_a phrase_n in_o that_o proposition_n i_o thus_o write_v i_o will_v glad_o know_v what_o they_o mean_v by_o those_o word_n if_o the_o protestant_n be_v the_o true_a visible_a church_n whether_o so_o as_o if_o we_o alone_o who_o be_v call_v protestant_n be_v of_o the_o church_n and_o not_o other_o we_o leave_v such_o enclose_v of_o commons_o to_o the_o romanist_n we_o challenge_v it_o not_o we_o be_v a_o true_a church_n not_o the_o true_a church_n we_o be_v a_o part_n not_o the_o whole_a we_o include_v ourselves_o we_o exclude_v not_o other_o whether_o grecian_n armenian_n aethiopian_n spaniard_n or_o italian_n etc._n etc._n so_o they_o deny_v no_o fundamental_a part_n of_o the_o faith_n either_o direct_o or_o by_o consequence_n what_o reply_v have_v you_o make_v to_o this_o have_v you_o unfold_v your_o meaning_n have_v you_o expound_v this_o dark_a phrase_n have_v you_o as_o 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part_n of_o a_o kingdom_n and_o a_o whole_a kingdom_n between_o a_o part_n of_o the_o church_n and_o the_o whole_a church_n he_o that_o say_v i_o be_o a_o citizen_n of_o london_n be_v make_v free_a wrong_v no_o man_n but_o he_o that_o say_v i_o be_o the_o only_a citizen_n and_o there_o be_v no_o other_o speak_v false_o and_o wrong_v all_o other_o citizen_n of_o that_o society_n he_o that_o say_v middlesex_n be_v a_o part_n of_o the_o kingdom_n of_o england_n speak_v true_o and_o wrong_v no_o man_n but_o he_o that_o say_v middlesex_n be_v the_o kingdom_n of_o england_n as_o if_o there_o be_v no_o other_o shire_n nor_o province_n belong_v unto_o england_n speak_v false_o and_o be_v no_o less_o than_o a_o traitor_n to_o the_o king_n and_o he_o that_o say_v the_o protestant_n be_v a_o church_n speak_v true_o and_o wrong_v no_o man_n because_o he_o exclude_v no_o other_o christian_a church_n but_o he_o that_o say_v the_o protestant_n be_v the_o church_n as_o you_o say_v of_o the_o roman_a exclude_v all_o other_o speak_v false_o and_o wrong_v all_o other_o christian_a church_n of_o the_o world_n as_o the_o donatist_n do_v which_o s._n augustin_n esteem_v ibid._n esteem_v quid_fw-la hac_fw-la stultitia_fw-la imò_fw-la verò_fw-la dementia_fw-la reperitur_fw-la insanius_fw-la lib._n 1._o cont_n ep_v parm._n credunt_fw-la ex_fw-la partibus_fw-la terrarum_fw-la periisse_fw-la abrahae_fw-la semen_fw-mi quod_fw-la est_fw-la christus_fw-la de_n vestro_fw-la ista_fw-la dicitis_fw-la quia_fw-la qui_fw-la loquor_fw-la mendacium_fw-la de_fw-la svo_fw-la loquor_fw-la creditur_fw-la eye_n de_fw-la orbe_fw-la terrarum_fw-la quem_fw-la possidere_fw-la jam_fw-la coperat_fw-la periisse_fw-la christus_fw-la et_fw-la quia_fw-la hoc_fw-la credunt_fw-la cum_fw-la impudenter_fw-la dicant_fw-la christiani_n sumus_fw-la audent_fw-la dicere_fw-la nos_fw-la soli_fw-la sumus_fw-la ibid._n folly_n and_o madness_n they_o believe_v that_o christ_n be_v lose_v in_o all_o other_o part_n of_o the_o world_n this_o you_o speak_v of_o yourselves_o because_o he_o that_o tell_v a_o lie_n speak_v of_o himself_o you_o dare_v say_v with_o the_o donatist_n we_o alone_o be_v the_o church_n yet_o christ_n do_v not_o say_v rome_n be_v the_o field_n but_o the_o world_n be_v the_o field_n that_o seed_n of_o the_o gospel_n be_v sow_v through_o the_o world_n we_o dare_v not_o therefore_o say_v as_o you_o do_v we_o be_v the_o church_n we_o be_v the_o only_a christian_n for_o this_o be_v a_o lie_n folly_n and_o madness_n as_o saint_n augustine_n term_v it_o and_o yet_o as_o if_o there_o be_v no_o difference_n you_o can_v pass_v this_o over_o with_o say_v the_o true_a church_n or_o a_o true_a church_n as_o master_n rogers_n have_v rather_o say_v i_o have_v rather_o say_v so_o indeed_o because_o this_o be_v true_a the_o other_o which_o you_o say_v be_v false_a this_o be_v humility_n that_o be_v pride_n this_o be_v charitable_a that_o be_v uncharitable_a as_o the_o devil_n this_o be_v injurious_a unto_o none_o that_o to_o thousand_o of_o thousand_o million_o of_o million_o shut_v they_o out_o of_o heaven_n who_o believe_v in_o christ_n be_v baptize_v into_o christ_n and_o suffer_v for_o christ_n second_o i_o observe_v many_o needless_a word_n in_o your_o proposition_n write_v thus_o i_o must_v desire_v the_o author_n not_o to_o affect_v obscurity_n nor_o to_o alter_v their_o word_n which_o may_v alter_v their_o meaning_n as_o in_o the_o four_o and_o five_o proposition_n they_o have_v with_o the_o multitude_n of_o needless_a word_n obscure_v the_o matter_n the_o four_o be_v brief_o and_o plain_o this_o if_o the_o protestant_n be_v a_o true_a church_n their_o faith_n have_v be_v teach_v in_o all_o age_n by_o lawful_a pastor_n this_o i_o grant_v and_o no_o more_o this_o be_v your_o first_o falsification_n as_o if_o i_o grant_v that_o which_o i_o express_o deny_v i_o deny_v that_o we_o be_v the_o christian_a church_n which_o your_o proposition_n lay_v down_o
proof_n by_o history_n can_v be_v effectual_a and_o satisfactory_a 1._o for_o the_o uncertainty_n of_o humane_a story_n 2._o because_o of_o their_o index_n expurgatorius_fw-la 3._o because_o they_o have_v forge_v many_o authority_n of_o counsel_n and_o father_n 4._o because_o they_o have_v except_v against_o all_o the_o ecclesiastical_a historian_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n as_o falsary_n 91_o chap._n xiiii_o master_n fisher_n answer_v to_o master_n roger_n argument_n and_o ground_n 100_o chap._n xv._o the_o protestant_n faith_n contain_v in_o scripture_n the_o article_n of_o their_o faith_n in_o the_o apostle_n creed_n master_n roger_n argument_n maintain_v against_o master_n fisher_n first_o answer_n by_o deny_v the_o minor_a 103_o chap._n xvi_o master_n fisher_n second_o answer_n by_o change_v protestant_n into_o catholic_a refute_v retort_v a_o bold_a manifest_a falsehood_n of_o master_n fisher_n master_n fisher_n but_o half_a a_o papist_n 109_o chap._n xvii_o the_o romanist_n can_v bring_v no_o author_n for_o 400_o year_n for_o their_o half_a communion_n worship_v of_o image_n etc._n etc._n nor_o for_o any_o else_o in_o some_o age_n for_o want_n of_o wtiter_n in_o time_n of_o ignorance_n no_o council_n no_o good_a writer_n no_o good_a pope_n saculo_n 9_o in_o which_o 9_o age_n nothing_o be_v visible_a in_o the_o roman_a church_n but_o vile_a and_o lewd_a pope_n or_o intruder_n prove_v at_o large_a out_o of_o baronius_n 114_o chap._n xviii_o a_o threefold_a catalogue_n 1._o of_o latin_n 2._o of_o greek_a author_n 3._o of_o counsel_n who_o profess_v our_o faith_n maintain_v our_o sacrament_n but_o not_o the_o faith_n and_o sacrament_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n 119_o chap._n xix_o the_o distinction_n of_o doctrine_n accessary_a and_o fundamental_a of_o affirmation_n and_o negation_n 142_o chap._n xx._n the_o same_o distinction_n maintain_v john_n ellis_n his_o comparison_n the_o ape_n with_o his_o youngling_n the_o boy_n with_o his_o bodging_n verse_n decree_n of_o counsel_n not_o article_n of_o faith_n what_o make_v a_o heretic_n the_o anabaptist_n as_o he_o be_v suppose_v by_o master_n fisher_n a_o member_n of_o the_o church_n but_o membrum_fw-la non_fw-la sanum_fw-la 148_o chap._n xxi_o of_o doctrine_n fundamental_a the_o roman_a church_n the_o most_o corrupt_a part_n of_o the_o church_n 155_o chap._n xxii_o of_o baptise_v of_o child_n the_o error_n of_o the_o anabaptist_n in_o practice_n not_o in_o point_n of_o faith_n 159_o chap._n xxiii_o the_o papist_n affirm_v all_o our_o faith_n but_o differ_v in_o ecclesiastical_a doctrine_n which_o they_o term_v point_n of_o faith_n in_o which_o they_o want_v antiquity_n universality_n and_o consent_v 164_o chap._n xxiiii_o the_o same_o ground_n of_o doctrine_n accessary_a and_o fundamental_a of_o affirmation_n and_o negation_n maintain_v 2._o negative_n in_o scripture_n pertain_v to_o faith_n per_fw-la accidens_fw-la not_o per_fw-la se_fw-la all_o thing_n reveal_v in_o scripture_n have_v equal_a truth_n but_o not_o equal_a profit_n equal_a necessity_n of_o be_v believe_v be_v know_v but_o not_o equal_a necessity_n to_o be_v know_v negative_n not_o reveal_v in_o scripture_n be_v res_fw-la fidei_fw-la neither_o per_fw-la se_fw-la nor_o per_fw-la accidens_fw-la the_o church_n of_o rome_n most_o hate_v and_o most_o hate_a by_o all_o church_n in_o the_o world_n as_o innovator_n schismatic_n and_o heretic_n the_o conclusion_n of_o the_o whole_a book_n 171_o recensui_fw-la hunc_fw-la librum_fw-la cujus_fw-la titulus_fw-la est_fw-la the_o protestant_n church_n existent_a etc._n etc._n in_o quo_fw-la nihil_fw-la reperio_fw-la bonis_fw-la moribus_fw-la aut_fw-la sanae_fw-la doctrinae_fw-la contrarium_fw-la quo_fw-la minus_fw-la imprimatur_fw-la modo_fw-la id_fw-la fiat_fw-la intra_fw-la annum_fw-la proximè_fw-la sequentem_fw-la secus_fw-la ista_fw-la licentia_fw-la effectu_fw-la carebit_fw-la johannes_n oliver_n reverendiss_n in_o christo_n patr._n &_o dom._n domino_fw-la arch._n cant._n capell_n dom._n exit_fw-la aedi_n lamb._n apr._n 15._o 1637._o the_o protestant_a church_n existent_a chap._n i._o master_n fisher_n observe_v neither_o art_n nor_o order_n in_o answer_v master_n rogers_n master_n fisher_n or_o whosoever_o you_o be_v that_o undertake_v for_o he_o if_o you_o will_v have_v do_v by_o i_o as_o i_o do_v by_o master_n fisher_n namely_o have_v set_v down_o all_o my_o ground_n and_o answer_v to_o they_o in_o particular_a as_o i_o do_v to_o master_n fisher_n proposition_n it_o may_v have_v give_v the_o reader_n better_a satisfaction_n who_o thereby_o may_v see_v whether_o we_o do_v agree_v in_o any_o thing_n that_o i_o have_v write_v or_o dissent_v in_o all_o whether_o you_o reject_v all_o those_o ground_n which_o i_o lay_v or_o admit_v of_o some_o as_o i_o do_v by_o your_o proposition_n approve_v some_o reject_v other_o loquor_fw-la in_o solutione_n argumentorum_fw-la dvae_fw-la tantum_fw-la solutiones_fw-la distinguendo_fw-la vel_fw-la tollendo_fw-la ego_fw-la autem_fw-la hic_fw-la de_fw-la propositionibus_fw-la loquor_fw-la and_o in_o those_o you_o reject_v if_o you_o will_v have_v answer_v to_o they_o in_o their_o place_n &_o punctual_o and_o not_o go_v rove_a so_o to_o puzzle_v the_o reader_n with_o disorder_n i_o take_v those_o proposition_n that_o be_v offer_v to_o i_o as_o they_o lay_v i_o answer_v to_o every_o period_n vel_fw-la concedendo_fw-la aut_fw-la distinguendo_fw-la aut_fw-la negando_fw-la either_o grant_v distinguish_a or_o deny_v and_o where_o i_o find_v any_o ambiguity_n in_o your_o term_n or_o sentence_n i_o desire_v you_o to_o explicate_v and_o clear_v the_o same_o which_o you_o have_v not_o do_v yet_o you_o know_v that_o no_o disputation_n may_v be_v undertake_v no_o argument_n frame_v no_o treatise_n compose_v without_o this_o no_o not_o so_o much_o as_o one_o bare_a proposition_n or_o sentence_n may_v subsist_v with_o aequivocation_n and_o amphibologie_n word_n or_o sentence_n of_o double_a signification_n and_o doubtful_a sense_n until_o they_o be_v clear_v by_o explication_n and_o distinction_n this_o you_o know_v to_o be_v the_o advice_n and_o practice_v of_o the_o philosopher_n and_o divine_n which_o have_v write_v but_o such_o be_v your_o term_n &_o proposition_n as_o that_o they_o seem_v to_o be_v make_v of_o purpose_n in_o ambiguous_a word_n or_o contexture_n so_o to_o leave_v open_a some_o start_a hole_n or_o evasion_n and_o answer_v your_o adversary_n out_o of_o order_n to_o draw_v a_o curtain_n before_o the_o understanding_n not_o only_o of_o the_o reader_n but_o also_o of_o your_o adversary_n disorder_v aristot_n elench_v 2._o we_o be_v ignorant_a of_o what_o we_o former_o know_v when_o it_o be_v misplace_v and_o disorder_v and_o yourself_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d thus_o have_v i_o be_v serve_v by_o other_o beside_o you_o be_v not_o this_o catch_n at_o a_o word_n here_o and_o pass_v by_o a_o whole_a side_n of_o a_o leaf_n elsewhere_o without_o say_v one_o word_n to_o it_o afterward_o leap_v back_o a_o leaf_n or_o two_o and_o snarl_v at_o a_o argument_n or_o snap_v at_o a_o distinction_n and_o so_o away_o be_v not_o this_o i_o say_v like_o the_o dog_n drink_v of_o nilus_n lap_v a_o little_a and_o run_v away_o lap_n again_o and_o run_v away_o this_o be_v apply_v by_o one_o to_o antony_n fly_v after_o cleopatra_n from_o the_o battle_n at_o actium_n who_o be_v ask_v quid_fw-la agit_fw-fr antonius_n answer_v quod_fw-la canis_fw-la ad_fw-la nilum_n lambit_fw-la &_o fugit_fw-la so_o much_o be_v he_o besot_v with_o that_o harlot_n thus_o you_o the_o champion_n of_o that_o purple_a harlot_n that_o sit_v upon_o the_o seven_o hill_n fight_v her_o quarrel_n a_o snatch_n and_o away_o a_o snap_n and_o be_v go_v or_o if_o you_o make_v a_o short_a stand_n you_o will_v but_o show_v your_o tooth_n grin_v snarl_v but_o hardly_o bite_v that_o i_o may_v draw_v you_o from_o this_o course_n of_o disorder_n i_o will_v put_v down_o what_o master_n fisher_n propose_v what_o i_o answer_v and_o then_o what_o this_o author_n reply_v or_o where_o he_o do_v not_o reply_v chap._n ii_o the_o occasion_n and_o time_n when_o this_o author_n master_n rogers_n be_v first_o interest_v in_o this_o matter_n att_n that_o time_n when_o our_o now_o sovereign_a be_v in_o spain_n a_o gentleman_n deliver_v i_o those_o proposition_n follow_v in_o the_o presence_n of_o divers_a i_o be_v then_o in_o london_n 100_o mile_n from_o my_o dwell_n and_o my_o book_n that_o night_n i_o deliver_v this_o answer_n follow_v after_o master_n fisher_n proposition_n the_o gent_n be_v then_o almost_o become_v romanist_n have_v be_v not_o many_o day_n before_o at_o mass_n in_o the_o spanish_a ambassador_n house_n and_o master_n fisher_n come_v to_o this_o gent_n chamber_n leave_v those_o proposition_n with_o he_o the_o like_a verbatìm_fw-la the_o right_o honourable_a earl_n of_o o._n do_v show_v i_o say_v that_o it_o be_v all_o write_v with_o master_n fisher_n own_o hand_n the_o proposition_n be_v these_o fisher_n it_o be_v grant_v that_o there_o must_v be_v a_o visible_a church_n in_o
undoubted_a as_o that_o the_o sacrilegious_a heretic_n themselves_o will_v not_o rebaptize_v those_o who_o i_o have_v baptize_v saint_n augustine_n do_v answer_v thus_o he_o do_v not_o commit_v sacrilege_n who_o dare_v not_o rebaptize_v after_o that_o baptism_n which_o be_v not_o thou_o but_o the_o baptism_n of_o christ_n the_o baptism_n be_v christ_n the_o rebaptise_v be_v thy_o i_o correct_v in_o thou_o that_o which_o be_v thou_o and_o acknowledge_v that_o which_o be_v christ_n for_o this_o be_v just_a that_o when_o we_o reproove_v the_o evil_n of_o man_n we_o shall_v approve_v whatsoever_o good_a thing_n we_o find_v in_o they_o because_o they_o be_v god_n i_o say_v this_o be_v just_a that_o even_o in_o a_o sacrilegious_a person_n i_o shall_v not_o violate_v that_o true_a sacrament_n which_o i_o find_v in_o he_o neither_o that_o i_o shall_v so_o correct_v a_o sacrilegious_a person_n as_o thereby_o to_o commit_v a_o sacrilegious_a sin_n for_o they_o be_v evil_a though_o the_o baptism_n among_o they_o be_v good_a as_o the_o jew_n be_v evil_a though_o the_o law_n be_v good_a and_o even_o as_o the_o jew_n shall_v be_v judge_v by_o that_o law_n which_o they_o though_o defile_v can_v not_o defile_v so_o the_o donatist_n they_o shall_v be_v judge_v by_o that_o baptism_n which_o they_o can_v not_o deprave_v though_o themselves_o be_v deprave_v we_o therefore_o thus_o deal_v with_o a_o jew_n when_o he_o come_v unto_o we_o to_o be_v make_v christian_n we_o do_v not_o destroy_v in_o he_o the_o good_a that_o he_o have_v from_o god_n but_o the_o evil_a that_o he_o have_v of_o himself_o for_o we_o amend_v and_o destroy_v in_o he_o his_o infidelity_n whereby_o he_o do_v not_o believe_v that_o christ_n be_v come_v already_o be_v bear_v have_v suffer_v be_v rise_v again_o and_o we_o instruct_v he_o in_o the_o faith_n of_o these_o thing_n we_o also_o dissuade_v he_o from_o those_o error_n whereby_o he_o still_o stick_v to_o the_o shadow_n of_o the_o old_a sacrament_n and_o we_o show_v unto_o he_o that_o the_o time_n be_v come_v already_o wherein_o the_o prophet_n foretell_v that_o these_o thing_n be_v to_o be_v take_v away_o and_o change_v but_o in_o that_o he_o believe_v one_o god_n be_v to_o be_v worship_v which_o make_v heaven_n and_o earth_n that_o he_o do_v abhor_v all_o the_o idol_n and_o sacrilege_n of_o the_o gentile_n that_o he_o do_v expect_v the_o day_n of_o judgement_n that_o he_o do_v hope_n for_o eternal_a life_n we_o commend_v he_o approve_v he_o acknowledge_v he_o wish_v he_o to_o believe_v as_o he_o have_v believe_v to_o hold_v as_o he_o have_v hold_v so_o also_o when_o a_o schismatic_a or_o a_o heretic_n do_v come_v unto_o we_o to_o be_v make_v a_o catholic_n we_o dissuade_v destroy_v and_o take_v from_o he_o his_o schism_n and_o his_o heresy_n but_o as_o for_o the_o sacrament_n of_o christ_n if_o we_o find_v they_o in_o he_o and_o whatsoever_o other_o truth_n he_o hold_v far_o be_v it_o from_o we_o that_o we_o shall_v violate_v or_o minister_v again_o that_o baptism_n which_o be_v once_o receive_v lest_o while_o we_o cure_v the_o vice_n of_o man_n we_o condemn_v the_o save_a grace_n of_o god_n and_o seek_v to_o heal_v that_o which_o be_v not_o wound_v we_o shall_v wound_v a_o man_n there_o where_o he_o be_v whole_a thus_o far_o saint_n augustine_n these_o word_n of_o this_o father_n make_v so_o plain_a for_o our_o reform_a church_n as_o that_o they_o need_v no_o application_n let_v the_o reader_n understand_v papist_n where_o he_o read_v donatist_n and_o he_o shall_v find_v the_o argument_n to_o follow_v we_o so_o leave_v you_o as_o that_o we_o retain_v whatsoever_o you_o have_v from_o god_n and_o reject_v that_o which_o be_v from_o man_n we_o retain_v that_o which_o make_v you_o a_o christian_a church_n we_o reject_v that_o which_o make_v you_o popish_a and_o antichristian_a in_o the_o former_a we_o communicate_v with_o you_o in_o the_o latter_a we_o disclaim_v so_o those_o who_o i_o have_v and_o shall_v cite_v do_v communicate_v with_o you_o in_o some_o thing_n but_o not_o in_o all_o for_o if_o they_o have_v communicate_v with_o you_o in_o all_o thing_n they_o will_v not_o have_v reprove_v 21._o aug._n l._n 2._o cor_fw-la open_fw-mi par._n c._n 21._o and_o dislike_v so_o many_o thing_n qui_fw-la communicate_v consentit_fw-la qui_fw-la consentit_fw-la corrumpitur_fw-la if_o he_o communicate_v he_o do_v consent_n if_o he_o consent_v he_o be_v corrupt_v to_o consent_v to_o evil_n be_v nothing_o else_o but_o to_o approve_v and_o commend_v that_o which_o be_v evil_a neither_o be_v there_o any_o man_n join_v in_o evil_a but_o he_o that_o do_v commit_v evil_a or_o favour_v it_o act_n it_o or_o approve_v it_o in_o those_o good_a man_n which_o be_v displease_v with_o those_o evil_n the_o church_n do_v continue_v have_v continue_v and_o will_v continue_v for_o ever_o and_o as_o the_o grain_n unwinnow_v be_v hide_v in_o the_o chaff_n so_o the_o godly_a do_v not_o easy_o appear_v among_o a_o multitude_n of_o the_o wicked_a the_o people_n may_v be_v good_a where_o the_o bishop_n be_v bad_a as_o the_o people_n be_v bad_a though_o moses_n a_o good_a man_n be_v their_o prince_n where_o moses_n and_o aaron_n be_v there_o also_o be_v sacrilegious_a murderer_n where_o caiphas_n be_v and_o many_o like_a unto_o he_o there_o be_v also_o zacharias_n and_o simeon_n and_o other_o like_v unto_o they_o saul_n and_o david_n be_v in_o the_o same_o synagogue_n etc._n etc._n so_o that_o i_o doubt_v not_o but_o some_o may_v be_v find_v in_o all_o age_n who_o do_v not_o communicate_v with_o your_o new_a doctrine_n superstitious_a worship_n tyrannical_a discipline_n although_o they_o do_v communicate_v with_o you_o in_o the_o scripture_n and_o apostle_n creed_n as_o we_o and_o all_o the_o famous_a christian_a church_n in_o the_o world_n do_v know_v then_o that_o whereas_o you_o say_v that_o the_o father_n and_o other_o allege_v by_o some_o of_o your_o man_n do_v communicate_v with_o the_o roman_a church_n unless_o you_o can_v say_v in_o all_o thing_n you_o conclude_v nothing_o syllogizari_fw-la non_fw-la est_fw-la ex_fw-la particulari_fw-la for_o otherwise_o i_o may_v argue_v thus_o some_o live_a creature_n be_v a_o anabaptist_n master_n fisher_n be_v a_o live_a creature_n ergo_fw-la master_n fisher_n be_v a_o anabaptist_n because_o they_o communicate_v with_o you_o in_o some_o thing_n thence_o to_o infer_v you_o be_v the_o same_o in_o all_o thing_n be_v fallacia_fw-la à _fw-la dicto_fw-la secundum_fw-la quid_fw-la ad_fw-la dictum_fw-la simpliciter_fw-la chap._n ix_o fisher_n and_o as_o ancient_a father_n have_v do_v before_o they_o condemn_v some_o or_o other_o protestant_n doctrine_n even_o of_o those_o 39_o article_n of_o the_o english_a protestant_a church_n although_o they_o be_v more_o crafty_o compose_v then_o the_o article_n of_o other_o protestant_a church_n rogers_n i_o tell_v you_o in_o my_o first_o answer_n that_o it_o be_v no_o prejudice_n to_o our_o faith_n if_o the_o same_o author_n do_v differ_v from_o we_o in_o other_o opinion_n not_o concern_v faith_n as_o long_o as_o they_o maintain_v our_o faith_n and_o that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n can_v produce_v father_n in_o all_o age_n who_o do_v not_o contradict_v the_o council_n of_o trent_n in_o some_o doctrine_n establish_v in_o the_o say_a council_n these_o be_v my_o word_n in_o my_o first_o answer_n to_o which_o you_o reply_v not_o at_o all_o to_o this_o purpose_n i_o also_o use_v that_o distinction_n of_o discipline_n and_o doctrine_n and_o distinguish_v between_o doctrine_n accessary_a and_o fundamental_a add_v also_o that_o matter_n of_o faith_n consist_v not_o in_o discipline_n but_o doctrine_n and_o that_o doctrine_n not_o accessary_a but_o fundamental_a by_o which_o distinction_n i_o mean_v as_o i_o then_o express_v the_o same_o which_o aquinas_n do_v by_o res_fw-la fidei_fw-la per_fw-la se_fw-la per_fw-la accidens_fw-la to_o this_o purpose_n i_o then_o distinguish_v dogmata_fw-la 1_o schola_fw-la 2_o ecclesiae_fw-la 3_o fidei_fw-la between_o 1_o opinion_n of_o school_n 2_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n &_o 3_o article_n of_o faith_n to_o all_o which_o ground_n of_o i_o and_o more_o which_o i_o thâ—n_v lay_v you_o make_v no_o reply_n at_o all_o save_v that_o some_o other_o ground_n of_o i_o you_o cavil_v at_o viz_o my_o definition_n of_o a_o protestant_n and_o my_o distinction_n of_o affirmation_n and_o negation_n which_o i_o will_v justify_v in_o their_o place_n why_o will_v you_o say_v nothing_o to_o these_o ground_n master_n fisher_n if_o they_o be_v true_a why_o will_v you_o not_o grant_v they_o if_o false_a why_o not_o deny_v they_o if_o ambiguous_a why_o not_o distinguish_v they_o i_o know_v no_o other_o answer_n but_o one_o of_o these_o three_o way_n concedendo_fw-la negando_fw-la vel_fw-la distinguendo_fw-la you_o will_v do_v none_o of_o these_o to_o
cap._n 5._o this_o council_n do_v profess_v our_o faith_n and_o receive_v our_o counsel_n and_o sacrament_n though_o they_o add_v five_o sacrament_n more_o read_v surius_n tom._n 4._o sessione_n 3_o 4_o 5._o thus_o have_v i_o travel_v through_o history_n father_n schoolman_n and_o counsel_n to_o satisfy_v the_o demand_n of_o they_o who_o when_o all_o be_v do_v will_v deny_v all_o history_n father_n and_o counsel_n which_o make_v against_o they_o i_o may_v have_v go_v a_o near_a way_n thus_o you_o baptize_v child_n daily_o in_o your_o church_n and_o then_o you_o profess_v my_o faith_n the_o apostle_n creed_n and_o minister_v our_o first_o sacrament_n you_o have_v your_o mass_n or_o common_a prayer_n with_o the_o communion_n often_o in_o your_o church_n than_o also_o you_o profess_v my_o faith_n read_v parcel_n of_o our_o scripture_n and_o minister_v our_o other_o sacrament_n entire_a to_o the_o clergy_n though_o by_o half_n to_o the_o laity_n you_o have_v publish_v many_o missal_n under_o the_o name_n of_o saint_n james_n saint_n mark_v saint_n chrysostom_n and_o other_o every_o one_o of_o these_o allow_v and_o use_v my_o faith_n scripture_n and_o sacrament_n you_o have_v your_o ordo_fw-la romanus_n that_o approve_v my_o faith_n scripture_n and_o sacrament_n you_o have_v publish_v many_o writer_n upon_o the_o mass_n in_o your_o auctionary_n of_o bibliotheca_fw-la patrum_fw-la as_o walafridus_n strabo_n ino_n corvotensis_n and_o other_o name_v by_o i_o in_o my_o catalogue_n all_o these_o profess_v our_o faith_n and_o receive_v our_o sacrament_n and_o also_o our_o scripture_n but_o as_o for_o your_o creed_n it_o be_v never_o profess_v in_o baptism_n it_o be_v find_v in_o none_o of_o those_o missal_n nor_o in_o your_o ordo_fw-la romanus_n nor_o in_o any_o of_o those_o expositor_n of_o your_o roman_a mass_n for_o one_o thousand_o five_o hundred_o year_n let_v i_o conclude_v with_o the_o word_n of_o vincentius_n lirinensis_n the_o holy_a church_n a_o diligent_a and_o wary_a keeper_n of_o those_o doctrine_n which_o be_v commit_v unto_o she_o do_v not_o change_n add_v or_o diminish_v any_o thing_n therein_o it_o do_v not_o cut_v off_o any_o thing_n that_o be_v necessary_a nor_o add_v any_o thing_n that_o be_v superfluous_a it_o do_v not_o lose_v that_o which_o be_v proper_a to_o christianity_n nor_o usurp_v that_o which_o belong_v to_o other_o sect_n of_o religion_n in_o the_o world_n chap._n xix_o fisher_n 1._o that_o faith_n be_v affirmation_n and_o not_o negation_n by_o which_o rule_n it_o seem_v he_o will_v not_o have_v any_o negative_a proposition_n although_o find_v in_o scripture_n to_o pertain_v to_o faith_n 2._o that_o they_o that_o be_v in_o the_o affirmative_a must_v prove_v and_o not_o those_o who_o be_v in_o the_o negative_a but_o which_o seem_v to_o follow_v that_o a_o man_n who_o have_v time_n out_o of_o mind_n quiet_o possess_v his_o land_n or_o religion_n be_v bind_v to_o prove_v his_o right_n before_o his_o upstart_n adversary_n who_o deny_v he_o to_o have_v right_a have_v give_v a_o good_a reason_n of_o his_o denial_n 3._o that_o what_o be_v not_o a_o point_n of_o faith_n in_o the_o primitive_a age_n can_v after_o be_v a_o point_n of_o faith_n as_o if_o there_o be_v not_o some_o point_n which_o be_v at_o first_o not_o hold_v necessary_a to_o be_v believe_v even_o by_o orthodox_n father_n which_o afterward_o by_o examination_n and_o definition_n of_o the_o church_n in_o general_n counsel_n be_v make_v so_o necessary_a to_o be_v believe_v as_o that_o whosoever_o do_v not_o believe_v they_o be_v account_v not_o orthodox_n but_o heretic_n and_o 4_o that_o the_o anabaptist_n faith_n be_v that_o which_o be_v contain_v in_o scripture_n and_o ancient_a creed_n and_o the_o anabaptist_n church_n be_v a_o society_n of_o man_n which_o profess_v the_o faith_n contain_v in_o scripture_n and_o the_o ancient_a creed_n as_o if_o a_o anabaptist_n may_v be_v judge_n it_o will_v be_v hold_v so_o to_o be_v rogers_n master_n fisher_n have_v in_o many_o page_n write_v this_o title_n master_n rogers_n his_o weak_a ground_n where_o he_o speak_v not_o one_o word_n of_o my_o ground_n and_o here_o he_o do_v pass_v over_o the_o most_o with_o silence_n but_o he_o speak_v against_o some_o few_o of_o they_o in_o my_o former_a answer_n after_o my_o definition_n of_o a_o protestant_n i_o lay_v some_o few_o distinction_n or_o ground_n thus_o i_o desire_v you_o to_o distinguish_v between_o matter_n 1._o of_o discipline_n and_o 2._o of_o doctrine_n second_o to_o distinguish_v between_o 1._o doctrine_n accessary_a and_o 2._o doctr._n fundamental_a matter_n of_o faith_n consist_v not_o in_o discipline_n but_o doctrine_n and_o that_o doctrine_n not_o accessary_a but_o fundamental_a by_o this_o distinction_n i_o mean_v the_o same_o which_o aquinas_n do_v by_o res_fw-la fidei_fw-la 1._o per_fw-la se_fw-la 2._o per_fw-la accidens_fw-la these_o 3_o distinction_n pass_v without_o exception_n save_v that_o he_o make_v mention_n of_o the_o second_o viz_o 1._o doctrine_n accessory_a 2._o doctrine_n fundamental_a as_o if_o he_o will_v overthrow_v it_o but_o indeed_o say_v nothing_o in_o the_o world_n against_o it_o nor_o can_v for_o it_o be_v the_o distinction_n of_o saint_n augustine_n of_o bellarmine_n of_o all_o the_o school_n fidem_fw-la lib._n 4._o de_fw-fr verb._n dei_fw-la c._n 12._o in_o scripture_n plurima_fw-la sunt_fw-la quae_fw-la ex_fw-la se_fw-la non_fw-la pertinent_a ad_fw-la fidem_fw-la be_v the_o same_o with_o that_o of_o aquinas_n in_o matter_n of_o faith_n into_o res_fw-la fidei_fw-la 1._o per_fw-la se_fw-la in_o themselves_o 2._o per_fw-la accidens_fw-la or_o accidental_o the_o word_n of_o aquinas_n be_v these_o and_o thus_o cite_v by_o valenza_n tom._n 3._o d._n 1._o q._n 1._o p._n 2._o §_o 1._o as_o a_o undoubted_a ground_n or_o principle_n habitus_n fidei_fw-la 1._o per_fw-la se_fw-la &_o primariò_fw-la respicit_fw-la ea_fw-la circa_fw-la quae_fw-la distinguuntur_fw-la articuli_fw-la fidei_fw-la 2._o alias_o verò_fw-la propositiones_fw-la quae_fw-la divinis_fw-la scripture_n continenter_fw-la respicit_fw-la secundariò_fw-la &_o per_fw-la accidens_fw-la the_o habit_n of_o faith_n 1._o in_o itself_o and_o principal_o look_v upon_o those_o thing_n which_o be_v contain_v in_o the_o article_n of_o our_o creed_n 2._o upon_o other_o proposition_n which_o be_v contain_v in_o scripture_n it_o look_v accidental_o and_o secondary_o this_o be_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o reform_a church_n non_fw-la enim_fw-la unius_fw-la sunt_fw-la formae_fw-la omne_fw-la verae_fw-la doctrinae_fw-la capita_fw-la all_o head_n of_o true_a doctrine_n be_v not_o of_o one_o nature_n some_o be_v necessary_a to_o be_v know_v which_o all_o man_n ought_v to_o receive_v as_o undoubted_a there_o be_v other_o quae_fw-la inter_fw-la ecclesias_fw-la controversa_fw-la fidei_fw-la tamen_fw-la unitaetem_fw-la non_fw-la dirimant_fw-la wherein_o particular_a church_n may_v dissent_v and_o yet_o not_o break_v the_o unity_n of_o faith_n thus_o calvin_n instit_fw-la l._n 4._o c._n 1._o n._n 22._o i_o can_v cite_v luther_n and_o other_o but_o i_o will_v only_o cite_v saint_n augustine_n who_o in_o his_o first_o book_n against_o julius_n pelagius_n write_v thus_o alia_fw-la sunt_fw-la in_o quibus_fw-la inter_fw-la se_fw-la aliquando_fw-la etiam_fw-la doctissimi_fw-la atque_fw-la optimi_fw-la regulae_fw-la catholicae_fw-la defensores_fw-la salva_fw-la fidei_fw-la compage_fw-la non_fw-la consonant_n etalius_fw-la alio_fw-la de_fw-la una_fw-la re_fw-la meliùs_fw-la aliquid_fw-la dicit_fw-la &_o verius_fw-la hoc_fw-la autem_fw-la unde_fw-la nunc_fw-la agimus_fw-la ad_fw-la ipsa_fw-la fidei_fw-la pertinet_fw-la fundamenta_fw-la there_o be_v other_o thing_n wherein_o the_o most_o learned_a and_o best_a defender_n of_o the_o catholic_a rule_n may_v dissent_v one_o from_o another_o and_o one_o man_n speak_v better_a and_o more_o true_o than_o another_o upon_o the_o same_o subject_n but_o this_o whereof_o we_o now_o speak_v belong_v to_o the_o very_a foundation_n of_o faith_n thus_o far_o saint_n augustine_n this_o be_v the_o first_o of_o my_o ground_n that_o he_o find_v fault_n with_o but_o not_o in_o that_o order_n as_o i_o place_v they_o but_o after_o two_o or_o three_o other_o ground_n of_o i_o which_o in_o my_o answer_n be_v place_v after_o this_o thus_o he_o to_o puzzle_v the_o reader_n that_o he_o may_v not_o so_o easy_o perceive_v what_o he_o do_v answer_v what_o he_o do_v not_o answer_v never_o observe_v order_n yet_o i_o that_o he_o may_v in_o nothing_o escape_v my_o hand_n will_v follow_v he_o in_o his_o order_n so_o that_o i_o must_v answer_v what_o he_o object_v against_o this_o ground_n in_o the_o next_o chapter_n my_o next_o ground_n be_v this_o i_o distinguish_v between_o 1._o affirmation_n in_o those_o article_n of_o our_o english_a church_n and_o 2._o negation_n in_o those_o article_n of_o our_o english_a church_n our_o negation_n be_v partly_o a_o traverse_v partly_o a_o condemn_v of_o your_o novelty_n and_o addition_n and_o therefore_o no_o part_n of_o our_o faith_n for_o no_o man_n
in_o explication_n so_o that_o they_o all_o receive_v the_o distinction_n which_o you_o will_v seem_v to_o reject_v as_o if_o the_o admit_v of_o that_o distinction_n do_v infer_v a_o liberty_n to_o reject_v all_o church_n authority_n and_o not_o to_o be_v satisfy_v by_o what_o be_v teach_v by_o any_o church_n how_o this_o do_v follow_v i_o know_v not_o i_o think_v it_o be_v as_o far_o from_o due_a consequence_n as_o to_o say_v i_o have_v my_o poke_n full_a of_o plumb_n therefore_o that_o be_v the_o way_n to_o london_n it_o be_v my_o hard_a hap_n to_o meet_v with_o a_o adversary_n which_o have_v so_o little_a honesty_n as_o to_o falsify_v my_o word_n so_o little_a learning_n as_o that_o he_o have_v not_o and_o it_o seem_v he_o can_v frame_v one_o argument_n i_o be_o loath_a to_o take_v the_o pain_n to_o add_v form_n to_o such_o rude_a matter_n to_o draw_v the_o line_n of_o reason_n and_o measure_n with_o rule_n of_o art_n such_o rot_a stuff_n such_o incohaerent_a disjoint_v speech_n as_o that_o himself_o be_v afeard_a to_o insert_v the_o note_n of_o illation_n ergo._n illation_n ergo._n therefore_o but_o i_o will_v do_v it_o for_o he_o master_n rogers_n have_v distinguish_v between_o doctrine_n fundamental_a and_o necessary_a and_o doctrine_n not_o fundamental_a but_o accessory_a ergo_fw-la master_n rogers_n may_v be_v further_o allow_v to_o reject_v all_o church_n authority_n and_o not_o be_v satisfy_v with_o any_o church_n doctrine_n negatur_fw-la argumentum_fw-la master_n fisher_n for_o if_o it_o be_v a_o good_a argument_n let_v i_o urge_v it_o thus_o aquinas_n occam_n espenseus_n the_o master_n of_o the_o sentence_n bonaventure_n durandus_fw-la etc._n etc._n a_o world_n of_o schoolman_n and_o other_o writer_n do_v make_v the_o same_o distinction_n ergo_fw-la aquinas_n occam_n espenceus_n the_o master_n of_o the_o sentence_n with_o the_o school_n in_o general_a be_v allow_v to_o reject_v church_n authority_n and_o church_n doctrine_n if_o the_o argument_n be_v true_a thus_o it_o must_v follow_v i_o be_v so_o far_o from_o account_v that_o to_o be_v necessary_a which_o i_o listen_v so_o to_o account_v as_o that_o i_o desire_v of_o you_o my_o adversary_n to_o be_v inform_v and_o direct_v herein_o whereas_o you_o object_n that_o a_o anabaptist_n may_v prove_v his_o church_n to_o have_v be_v always_o visible_a by_o my_o rule_n definition_n and_o distinction_n be_v most_o untrue_a one_o of_o the_o rule_n or_o medium_fw-la by_o which_o i_o do_v prove_v my_o church_n be_v antiquity_n universality_n and_o consent_n will_v you_o grant_v that_o this_o medium_fw-la do_v agree_v to_o the_o anabaptist_n in_o that_o point_n which_o especial_o give_v he_o that_o name_n viz._n in_o deny_v baptism_n to_o child_n it_o seem_v you_o have_v little_a regard_n what_o you_o say_v that_o you_o will_v thus_o strengthen_v the_o anabaptist_n in_o his_o error_n as_o if_o he_o have_v antiquity_n universality_n and_o consent_v for_o his_o exclude_v child_n from_o baptism_n or_o if_o by_o his_o negative_a he_o put_v i_o to_o prove_v the_o affirmative_a that_o child_n be_v to_o be_v baptize_v i_o will_v prove_v it_o by_o the_o testimony_n of_o antiquity_n universality_n and_o consent_v but_o i_o be_o not_o now_o to_o deal_v with_o anabaptist_n but_o with_o a_o papist_n chap._n xxii_o fisher_n for_o proof_n whereof_o let_v it_o be_v suppose_v that_o master_n â—_z can_v as_o he_o can_v produce_v out_o of_o scripture_n and_o father_n other_o writer_n in_o all_o age_n as_o many_o and_o as_o plain_a and_o repugnant_a affirmative_a sentence_n against_o the_o negative_a doctrine_n of_o anabaptist_n as_o catholic_n ordinary_o do_v against_o protestant_n negative_n and_o then_o i_o ask_v master_n rogers_n whether_o this_o anabaptist_n may_v not_o as_o usual_o protestant_n do_v take_v one_o or_o other_o exception_n either_o of_o argument_n or_o book_n out_o of_o which_o the_o sentence_n be_v cite_v as_o if_o it_o be_v not_o undoubted_o canonical_a or_o authentical_a or_o against_o the_o translation_n or_o transcript_n or_o print_a copy_n as_o not_o certain_o know_v to_o be_v conform_v to_o the_o first_o antographon_n or_o original_a or_o against_o the_o interpretation_n and_o sense_n of_o the_o word_n or_o the_o consequence_n gather_v out_o of_o they_o as_o if_o some_o other_o sense_n be_v intend_v by_o the_o author_n or_o if_o none_o of_o these_o exception_n can_v be_v make_v whether_o he_o may_v not_o at_o least_o say_v that_o it_o be_v not_o the_o faith_n or_o consent_v of_o all_o antiquity_n which_o do_v hold_v such_o a_o affirmative_a contrary_a to_o his_o negative_a doctrine_n but_o only_o the_o opinion_n of_o some_o one_o or_o few_o whilst_o other_o hold_v the_o contrary_a or_o seem_v doubtful_a or_o if_o it_o be_v show_v to_o be_v the_o general_a doctrine_n of_o all_o who_o have_v occasion_n to_o write_v of_o that_o matter_n without_o any_o one_o teach_v contrary_a whether_o he_o may_v not_o deny_v the_o point_n to_o be_v fundamental_a and_o say_v that_o they_o differ_v not_o from_o he_o in_o doctrine_n necessary_a but_o only_o in_o doctrine_n accessary_a and_o that_o notwithstanding_o this_o difference_n they_o may_v and_o be_v possessor_n of_o his_o faith_n and_o member_n of_o his_o anabaptist_n church_n all_o this_o doubtless_o he_o may_v say_v and_o so_o defend_v ancient_a father_n to_o be_v of_o his_o faith_n and_o church_n as_o well_o as_o master_n rogers_n can_v defend_v they_o to_o be_v of_o his_o faith_n and_o church_n neither_o can_v master_n rogers_n disprove_v what_o the_o anabaptist_n aver_v but_o with_o the_o same_o breath_n he_o disproove_v his_o own_o book_n and_o make_v it_o appear_v to_o every_o judicious_a reader_n that_o he_o neither_o can_v true_o name_v sound_o prove_v nor_o in_o any_o good_a sort_n defend_v either_o the_o ancient_a father_n or_o any_o other_o orthodox_n who_o he_o name_v or_o any_o lawful_a pastor_n or_o other_o catholic_n or_o heretic_n before_o luther_n or_o indeed_o luther_n himself_o to_o have_v hold_v the_o entire_a protestant_a faith_n for_o if_o all_o protestant_a doctrine_n which_o be_v different_a from_o the_o faith_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n may_v be_v call_v doctrine_n of_o protestant_a faith_n it_o may_v be_v evident_o show_v that_o none_o of_o the_o aforesaid_a do_v in_o all_o point_n of_o faith_n agree_v with_o the_o english_a protestant_a church_n who_o minister_n be_v bind_v to_o subscribe_v to_o the_o 39_o article_n above_o mention_v rogers_n all_o this_o wild_a discourse_n be_v to_o overthrow_v my_o ground_n by_o show_v that_o they_o may_v agree_v with_o a_o anabaptist_n who_o as_o he_o suppose_v be_v not_o of_o the_o visible_a church_n &_o take_v it_o as_o grant_v by_o i_o wherein_o he_o be_v deceive_v for_o i_o hold_v the_o anabaptist_n though_o i_o condemn_v his_o error_n in_o deny_v baptism_n unto_o child_n to_o be_v a_o member_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n though_o disease_v as_o the_o papist_n be_v and_o less_o disease_v than_o he_o his_o argument_n which_o come_v from_o he_o as_o a_o bear_n whelp_n or_o worse_o for_o ever_o it_o want_v some_o principal_a limb_n be_v form_v be_v this_o those_o be_v no_o true_a gound_n distinction_n definition_n or_o argument_n a_o anabaptist_n may_v prove_v himself_o to_o be_v of_o the_o church_n but_o by_o master_n roger_n ground_n distinction_n definition_n and_o argument_n by_o which_o a_o anabaptist_n may_v prove_v himself_o to_o be_v of_o the_o church_n ergo_fw-la master_n rogers_n ground_n distinction_n definition_n and_o argument_n be_v no_o true_a ground_n i_o deny_v his_o major_n which_o he_o take_v as_o grant_v commit_v his_o old_a fallacy_n of_o petitio_fw-la principii_fw-la beg_v and_o suppose_v that_o for_o a_o medium_n and_o principle_n which_o be_v deny_v or_o at_o least_o question_v and_o spend_v himself_o whole_o in_o prove_v the_o minor_a which_o i_o grant_v not_o for_o any_o proof_n that_o he_o bring_v but_o for_o divers_a other_o reason_n which_o i_o can_v allege_v as_o namely_o these_o among_o other_o a_o erroneous_a opinion_n in_o matter_n of_o practice_n and_o moral_a precept_n do_v not_o exclude_v out_o of_o the_o visible_a church_n but_o error_n in_o matter_n of_o faith_n the_o error_n of_o the_o anabaptist_n be_v in_o matter_n of_o practice_n not_o in_o matter_n of_o faith_n ergo_fw-la his_o error_n do_v not_o exclude_v he_o out_o of_o the_o visible_a church_n they_o do_v not_o deny_v baptism_n nor_o any_o thing_n that_o be_v substantial_a in_o baptism_n but_o only_o err_v in_o a_o circumstance_n of_o time_n deny_v that_o unto_o child_n not_o absolute_o and_o for_o ever_o but_o until_o they_o come_v to_o make_v profession_n of_o their_o faith_n shall_v this_o exclude_v they_o and_o their_o child_n out_o of_o the_o church_n and_o why_o because_o by_o this_o delay_n many_o child_n die_v without_o baptism_n as_o you_o suppose_v be_v damn_v but_o
i_o deny_v if_o the_o delay_n of_o seven_o or_o eight_o year_n for_o baptism_n do_v exclude_v they_o out_o of_o the_o church_n because_o many_o thereby_o be_v deprive_v of_o baptism_n than_o a_o short_a delay_n of_o forty_o day_n or_o eighty_o day_n shall_v exclude_v man_n out_o of_o the_o church_n because_o many_o child_n may_v die_v at_o twenty_o or_o thirty_o day_n old_a and_o yet_o we_o know_v many_o church_n in_o the_o world_n as_o the_o coftie_a in_o egypt_n do_v not_o baptise_v their_o child_n before_o the_o fourti_v day_n though_o they_o shall_v die_v without_o baptism_n primus_fw-la th._n a_o je_n lib._n 7._o p._n 1._o c._n 5._o so_o th._n ibid._n c._n 6._o leo_fw-la primus_fw-la the_o maronites_n who_o patriarch_n reside_v in_o syria_n baptise_v not_o their_o male_a child_n till_o forty_o day_n nor_o their_o female_n till_o eighty_o day_n after_o their_o birth_n he_o be_v a_o pope_n of_o rome_n which_o command_v that_o baptism_n shall_v not_o be_v minister_v at_o any_o other_o time_n then_o at_o easter_n and_o whitsuntide_n and_o can_v we_o think_v but_o that_o many_o child_n in_o the_o mean_a space_n do_v die_v socrates_n scholasticus_n testify_v 4._o hist_o eccl._n 5._o c._n 21._o l_o tom._n 4._o disp_n 4._o puncto_fw-la 4._o that_o in_o thessaly_n by_o reason_n of_o defer_v of_o baptism_n until_o easter_n it_o happen_v that_o many_o yea_o the_o most_o dye_v before_o baptism_n your_o gregory_n de_fw-mi valenza_n do_v confess_v that_o in_o the_o primitive_a church_n many_o holy_a and_o godly_a man_n do_v defer_v their_o baptism_n for_o a_o long_a season_n 6._o disp_n de_fw-fr sacramentis_fw-la tom._n 1._o council_n in_o decretis_fw-la leonis_fw-la primi_fw-la can._n 6._o and_o your_o suarez_n and_o binius_fw-la do_v say_v that_o the_o former_a custom_n of_o the_o church_n and_o decree_n of_o pope_n leo_n be_v change_v by_o the_o church_n because_o of_o the_o danger_n which_o by_o so_o long_a delay_n do_v ensue_v if_o therefore_o the_o anabaptist_n be_v exclude_v from_o the_o visible_a church_n because_o of_o the_o danger_n which_o by_o delay_n of_o baptism_n do_v ensue_v to_o child_n then_o pope_n leo_n the_o first_o for_o decree_v a_o delay_n of_o baptism_n with_o the_o like_a danger_n and_o a_o great_a part_n of_o the_o christian_a church_n for_o observe_v the_o same_o be_v exclude_v out_o of_o the_o visible_a church_n this_o be_v it_o you_o shall_v first_o have_v prove_v that_o the_o anabaptist_n be_v out_o of_o the_o church_n afore_o you_o take_v it_o as_o a_o premise_v or_o undoubted_a proposition_n thence_o to_o infer_v a_o conclusion_n let_v i_o propose_v the_o argument_n again_o in_o that_o form_n which_o you_o most_o affect_v with_o if_z and_o ands._n if_o master_n roger_n ground_n be_v true_a the_o anabaptist_n receive_v the_o scripture_n apostle_n creed_n and_o agree_v with_o the_o protestant_n in_o all_o thing_n save_v this_o that_o he_o will_v not_o baptise_v child_n be_v of_o the_o church_n but_o such_o a_o anabaptist_n be_v not_o of_o the_o church_n ergo_fw-la master_n roger_n ground_n be_v not_o true_a negatur_fw-la minor_fw-la you_o have_v not_o speak_v one_o word_n to_o prove_v that_o such_o a_o anabaptist_n be_v not_o of_o the_o church_n which_o till_o you_o prove_v your_o conclusion_n can_v follow_v all_o that_o you_o say_v be_v in_o proof_n of_o the_o major_n which_o i_o grant_v whereas_o you_o say_v and_o will_v have_v it_o suppose_v that_o i_o can_v produce_v as_o many_o proof_n against_o this_o negative_a of_o the_o anabaptist_n as_o the_o romanist_n do_v usual_o produce_v against_o negative_n be_v most_o false_a for_o instance_n if_o you_o will_v bring_v i_o one_o author_n for_o your_o half_a communion_n your_o transubstantiation_n the_o book_n of_o maccabee_n 8._o irenaeus_n origen_n cyprian_a confess_v by_o bellarm._n lib._n 1._o de_fw-fr bap_n cap._n 8._o to_o be_v canonical_a in_o all_o which_o you_o be_v affirmative_a and_o i_o negative_a i_o say_v if_o you_o bring_v one_o author_n in_o the_o first_o 300_o year_n for_o these_o your_o affirmative_n i_o will_v bring_v three_o to_o one_o for_o our_o affirmative_a of_o baptise_v in_o the_o same_o time_n i_o will_v produce_v for_o this_o my_o affirmative_a antiquity_n universality_n and_o consent_n do_v you_o the_o like_a for_o your_o affirmative_n and_o i_o will_v be_v of_o your_o church_n all_o the_o rest_n of_o your_o frivolous_a chat_n concern_v the_o annabaptist_n what_o he_o may_v say_v what_o exception_n he_o may_v take_v against_o author_n against_o translation_n be_v nothing_o against_o any_o thing_n that_o i_o have_v write_v you_o name_v no_o author_n you_o name_v no_o particular_a exception_n so_o you_o cavil_v again_o with_o my_o distinction_n of_o doctrine_n fundamental_a and_o doctrine_n accessary_a not_o be_v able_a to_o produce_v one_o argument_n against_o they_o and_o ignorant_o or_o impudent_o deny_v a_o distinction_n deliver_v by_o saint_n augustine_n receive_v by_o your_o great_a schoolman_n aquinas_n by_o your_o great_a jesuite_n bellarmine_n and_o valenza_n acknowledge_v by_o the_o divine_n of_o our_o church_n as_o i_o have_v former_o show_v out_o of_o these_o author_n and_o the_o thing_n do_v manifest_v itself_o do_v not_o some_o thing_n that_o be_v contain_v in_o scripture_n more_o near_o concern_v our_o salvation_n than_o other_o can_v any_o man_n be_v save_v without_o know_v christ_n to_o be_v the_o saviour_n of_o the_o world_n and_o may_v not_o a_o man_n be_v save_v without_o know_v that_o jacob_n love_v rachel_n better_a than_o leah_n or_o that_o pharaoh_n dream_v of_o fat_a and_o lean_a kine_n to_o what_o tend_v your_o school_n distinction_n of_o 1._o fides_n explicita_fw-la &_o 2._o fides_n implicita_fw-la of_o necessitas_fw-la 1._o medii_fw-la 2._o praecepti_fw-la and_o their_o large_a dispute_n what_o be_v to_o be_v believe_v necessitate_v medii_fw-la without_o which_o a_o man_n can_v be_v save_v and_o what_o necessitate_v praecepti_fw-la thing_n 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the_o church_n they_o may_v be_v excommunicate_v as_o erroneous_a shismaticks_n fisher_n why_o do_v their_o bishop_n imprison_v they_o as_o heretic_n and_o not_o account_v they_o member_n of_o their_o church_n rogers_n appeal_n andrew_n in_o his_o defence_n of_o the_o apology_n for_o the_o other_o bilson_n in_o his_o perpetual_a government_n of_o the_o church_n carleton_n against_o the_o appeal_n they_o must_v be_v imprison_v as_o schismatic_n our_o bishop_n do_v all_o profess_v that_o there_o be_v no_o puritan_n doctrine_n that_o the_o difference_n be_v only_o in_o matter_n of_o discipline_n they_o count_v they_o neither_o heretic_n nor_o whole_o exclude_v out_o of_o the_o church_n here_o you_o have_v suppose_v two_o falsehood_n in_o two_o line_n those_o learned_a protestant_n from_o beyond_o the_o sea_n who_o discipline_n do_v somewhat_o vary_v from_o we_o do_v testify_v that_o the_o purity_n of_o doctrine_n do_v flourish_v in_o england_n pure_o and_o sincere_o so_o beza_n from_o geneva_n that_o by_o queeene_v elizabeth_n come_v to_o the_o crown_n god_n again_o have_v restore_v his_o doctrine_n and_o true_a worship_n so_o zanchius_n that_o the_o whole_a compass_n of_o the_o world_n have_v never_o see_v any_o thing_n more_o to_o be_v wish_v then_o be_v her_o government_n so_o daneus_n fisher_n and_o why_o not_o roman_a catholic_n by_o as_o good_a or_o better_a right_a account_n protestant_n who_o deny_v so_o many_o point_n define_v in_o both_o ancient_a and_o recent_a general_n counsel_n to_o be_v heretic_n excommunicate_v and_o no_o member_n of_o the_o ancient_n and_o present_a catholic_n church_n rogers_n if_o we_o do_v the_o one_o you_o may_v do_v the_o other_o but_o i_o have_v show_v the_o falsehood_n of_o your_o supposition_n that_o we_o count_v they_o heretic_n who_o descent_n from_o we_o in_o any_o of_o our_o article_n they_o may_v be_v erroneous_a in_o a_o lesser_a nature_n than_o heresy_n &_o turbulent_a in_o those_o error_n they_o may_v be_v schismatic_n
some_o year_n after_o a_o reply_n be_v publish_v whether_o by_o master_n fisher_n himself_o or_o some_o other_o in_o his_o behalf_n i_o know_v not_o a_o sight_n whereof_o i_o can_v not_o get_v in_o a_o year_n or_o two_o after_o to_o that_o reply_n of_o he_o i_o answer_v in_o this_o ensue_a discourse_n with_o a_o catalogue_n from_o the_o seven_o centurie_n to_o the_o fifteen_o of_o such_o as_o profess_v our_o faith_n which_o catalogue_n of_o particular_a man_n be_v finish_v i_o have_v add_v a_o catalogue_n of_o counsel_n in_o all_o age_n who_o profess_v our_o faith_n this_o book_n of_o i_o be_v finish_v seven_o or_o eight_o year_n past_a as_o a_o noble_a personage_n now_o employ_v by_o our_o sovereign_a king_n in_o foreign_a part_n can_v testify_v who_o bestow_v some_o book_n upon_o i_o which_o be_v very_o useful_a unto_o i_o in_o this_o work_n which_o he_o do_v read_v as_o do_v also_o many_o learned_a doctor_n of_o our_o church_n of_o hereford_n hoskinse_v d._n kernit_fw-la d._n best_a 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with_o st._n augustine_n cleave_v to_o the_o scripture_n and_o say_v with_o he_o ecce_fw-la ubi_fw-la didicimus_fw-la christum_fw-la 166._o ep._n 166._o ecce_fw-la ubi_fw-la didicimus_fw-la ecclesiam_fw-la loe_o where_o we_o have_v learned_a christ_n lo_o where_o we_o have_v learn_v to_o find_v his_o church_n give_v the_o glory_n to_o god_n for_o what_o be_v well_o and_o impute_v the_o imperfection_n and_o defect_n to_o my_o weakness_n who_o will_v to_o my_o poor_a ability_n be_v thou_o in_o the_o lord._n h._n r_n a_o table_n of_o the_o content_n chap._n i._n the_o rule_n of_o answer_v 1._o to_o lay_v down_o his_o adversary_n word_n and_o 2._o to_o answer_v to_o every_o particular_a well_fw-mi concedendo_fw-la vel_fw-la negando_fw-la vel_fw-la distinguendo_fw-la either_o by_o grant_v deny_v or_o distinguish_v by_o explicate_v of_o ambiguous_a term_n observe_v by_o mr_n r._n but_o not_o by_o mr._n fisher_n a_o comparison_n from_o the_o dog_n drink_v of_o nilus_n and_o anthony_n fly_v from_o actium_n 1_o chap._n ii_o 1._o the_o occasion_n of_o this_o discourse_n 2._o mr._n fisher_n term_n ambiguous_a 3._o distinctio_fw-la vocis_fw-la and_o definitio_fw-la rei_fw-la neglect_v by_o master_n fisher_n though_o request_v by_o his_o adversary_n 4._o these_o be_v the_o ground_n of_o all_o doctrinal_a discourse_n 5._o master_n rogers_n answer_v to_o master_n fisher_n first_o question_n that_o he_o will_v show_v who_o profess_v the_o faith_n of_o the_o reform_a church_n in_o all_o age_n 6._o master_n fisher_n can_v show_v the_o name_n of_o jesuite_n in_o all_o age_n 2_o chap._n iii_o 1._o master_n fisher_n rule_n that_o probatio_fw-la est_fw-la affirmantis_fw-la non_fw-la negantis_fw-la they_o who_o affirm_v be_v to_o prove_v admit_v by_o master_n rogers_n 2._o a_o church_n may_v be_v prove_v though_o the_o particular_a name_n not_o record_v as_o a_o christian_a church_n in_o this_o island_n before_o austin_n the_o monk_n come_v hither_o 3._o m._n fisher_n do_v confound_v two_o question_n and_o commit_v a_o fallacy_n secundum_fw-la plures_fw-la interrogationes_fw-la 4._o master_n fisher_n by_o his_o rule_n of_o name_n in_o all_o age_n may_v be_v deny_v to_o be_v a_o man_n to_o be_v descend_v of_o adam_n if_o he_o admit_v no_o other_o proof_n 5._o master_n roger_n argument_n to_o prove_v himself_o a_o christian_n confirm_v out_o of_o bellarmine_n baronius_n valenza_n etc._n etc._n 6._o what_o be_v essential_a and_o necessary_a to_o a_o explicit_a faith_n set_v down_o at_o large_a 7._o the_o covenant_n of_o faith_n the_o same_o in_o all_o christian_a church_n of_o the_o world_n latin_a roman_a and_o reform_v the_o greek_a armenian_n etc._n etc._n 5_o chap._n iu_o of_o the_o total_a object_n of_o faith_n as_o it_o include_v not_o only_o the_o primary_n essential_a matter_n of_o faith_n but_o also_o the_o secondary_a and_o accidental_a matter_n contain_v in_o the_o reveal_v truth_n and_o that_o from_o hence_o demonstration_n may_v be_v draw_v to_o prove_v the_o protestant_n to_o be_v a_o church_n 13_o chap._n v._n show_v out_o of_o saint_n augustine_n that_o there_o be_v no_o other_o way_n to_o demonstrate_v a_o church_n to_o be_v a_o true_a christian_a church_n but_o by_o the_o word_n of_o god_n 120_o chap._n vi_o the_o roman_a polemicke_a theologue_n liken_v to_o the_o indian_a ape_n that_o appear_v to_o alexander_n and_o to_o the_o ligurian_o the_o difference_n between_o the_o ancient_a and_o present_a church_n of_o rome_n between_o the_o ancient_a monk_n and_o the_o present_a the_o title_n of_o roman_a catholic_n a_o most_o impudent_a contradiction_n two_o impostor_n submit_v themselves_o as_o two_o patriaach_n to_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n the_o whole_a faith_n of_o the_o protestant_n confirm_v by_o popish_a writer_n yet_o the_o romanist_n have_v another_o new_a faith_n of_o their_o own_o 32_o chap._n vii_o master_n fisher_n press_v by_o his_o own_o rule_n to_o prove_v the_o new_a creed_n wherein_o he_o be_v affirmative_a we_o negative_a 2._o a_o member_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n may_v bear_v witness_n against_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n 41_o chap._n viii_o what_o it_o be_v to_o communicate_v with_o other_o how_o far_o we_o yet_o communicate_v with_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o wherein_o we_o refuse_v to_o communicate_v 45_o chap._n ix_o 1._o some_o distinction_n justify_v 2._o master_n fisher_n put_v false_a title_n over_o his_o book_n as_o thus_o master_n rogers_n his_o weak_a ground_n over_o his_o 26_o and_o 27_o page_n and_o yet_o not_o one_o word_n speak_v in_o both_o those_o page_n of_o any_o of_o master_n roger_n ground_n and_o page_n 28._o master_n rogers_n most_o weak_a argument_n and_o yet_o not_o one_o argument_n of_o master_n rogers_n mention_v in_o all_o that_o page_n master_n fisher_n change_v his_o term_n for_o faith_n put_v doctrine_n 52._o chap._n x._o master_n roger_n definition_n of_o a_o protestant_a church_n conform_v the_o same_o definition_n agree_v with_o all_o true_a church_n in_o the_o world_n the_o rule_n of_o define_v bellarmine_n definion_n of_o the_o church_n confute_v together_o with_o the_o romish_a doctrine_n that_o none_o can_v be_v save_v out_o of_o their_o church_n 56_o chap._n xi_o m.f._n put_v false_a title_n upon_o the_o page_n of_o his_o book_n as_o master_n rogers_n his_o most_o weak_a ground_n or_o argument_n where_o there_o be_v â—â—mention_n of_o his_o ground_n or_o argument_n the_o protestant_n a_o true_a church_n not_o the_o true_a church_n history_n no_o good_a proof_n of_o the_o church_n all_o doctrine_n not_o point_n of_o faith_n m._n fisher_n reason_n to_o prove_v that_o the_o teacher_n of_o true_a and_o false_a doctrine_n be_v to_o be_v find_v in_o history_n answer_v 71_o chap._n xii_o negative_n depend_v upon_o affirmative_n master_n fisher_n tautology_n he_o say_v master_n rogers_n grant_v what_o he_o never_o do_v grant_v 86_o chap._n xiii_o four_o reason_n to_o prove_v that_o master_n fisher_n
will_v deny_v his_o own_o faith_n to_o this_o my_o adversary_n do_v thus_o reply_n fisher_n that_o faith_n be_v affirmation_n and_o not_o negation_n by_o which_o rule_n it_o seem_v he_o will_v not_o have_v any_o negative_a proposition_n although_o find_v in_o scripture_n to_o pertain_v to_o faith_n rogers_n you_o infer_v that_o in_o your_o conclusion_n which_o be_v not_o in_o my_o ground_n i_o say_v that_o faith_n be_v affirmation_n i_o do_v not_o say_v that_o all_o that_o do_v pertain_v to_o faith_n be_v affirmation_n i_o say_v that_o negation_n be_v no_o part_n of_o my_o faith_n you_o say_v that_o negation_n do_v pertain_v to_o faith_n non_fw-la facis_fw-la elenchum_fw-la you_o infer_v not_o my_o proposition_n in_o your_o conclusion_n with_o a_o contradiction_n what_o you_o say_v be_v not_o contrary_a to_o my_o ground_n for_o that_o may_v pertain_v to_o faith_n which_o be_v not_o faith_n and_o that_o may_v pertain_v to_o faith_n which_o be_v no_o part_n of_o faith_n as_o that_o may_v pertain_v to_o master_n fisher_n which_o be_v not_o master_n fisher_n nor_o any_o part_n of_o master_n fisher_n the_o button_n of_o master_n fisher_n doublet_n do_v pertain_v to_o master_n fisher_n yet_o i_o may_v not_o say_v master_n fisher_n be_v a_o button_n or_o that_o this_o button_n be_v any_o part_n of_o master_n fisher_n a_o join_a stool_n may_v pertain_v to_o master_n fisher_n but_o i_o will_v not_o say_v master_n fisher_n be_v a_o join_a stool_n the_o distinction_n of_o matter_n of_o faith_n out_o of_o aquinas_n and_o other_o of_o that_o which_o belong_v unto_o faith_n proper_o from_o that_o which_o belong_v unto_o faith_n accidental_o do_v exclude_v those_o thing_n which_o only_o pertain_v unto_o faith_n from_o be_v faith_n or_o any_o part_n of_o faith_n you_o know_v master_n fisher_n zabarella_n aristot_n zabarella_n that_o propositiones_fw-la per_fw-la se_fw-la habent_fw-la essentialem_fw-la connexionem_fw-la man_n be_v that_o which_o he_o be_v of_o himself_o proper_o and_o essential_o a_o creature_n consist_v of_o a_o humane_a body_n and_o a_o reasonable_a soul_n not_o that_o which_o be_v accidental_a unto_o man_n as_o to_o be_v black_a or_o white_a to_o be_v a_o musician_n to_o be_v a_o carpenter_n to_o be_v a_o friar_n or_o a_o priest_n a_o jesuit_n or_o a_o dominican_n these_o thing_n be_v not_o man_n nor_o any_o part_n of_o man_n it_o do_v not_o therefore_o follow_v that_o because_o negation_n pertain_v to_o faith_n therefore_o they_o be_v faith_n or_o part_n of_o faith_n your_o argument_n from_o scripture_n if_o i_o shall_v grant_v your_o medium_n can_v infer_v against_o my_o ground_n alter_v part_n of_o faith_n into_o that_o which_o pertain_v to_o faith_n your_o argument_n in_o form_n will_v discover_v itself_o to_o be_v a_o fallacy_n all_o proposition_n find_v in_o scripture_n pertain_v to_o faith_n some_o negative_a proposition_n be_v find_v in_o scripture_n ergo_fw-la if_o you_o infer_v against_o i_o your_o conclusion_n must_v be_v thus_o negative_a proposition_n be_v faith_n or_o part_n of_o faith_n this_o be_v no_o syllogism_n here_o be_v four_o term_n there_o be_v that_o in_o the_o conclusion_n which_o be_v not_o in_o the_o premise_n but_o if_o you_o will_v have_v all_o proposition_n that_o be_v in_o scripture_n to_o be_v matter_n of_o faith_n or_o part_n or_o point_n of_o faith_n than_o i_o deny_v your_o major_a you_o know_v there_o be_v many_o proposition_n in_o scripture_n deliver_v by_o wicked_a man_n yea_o some_o by_o the_o devil_n himself_o as_o that_o which_o be_v speak_v unto_o eve_n you_o shall_v not_o die_v whereas_o god_n tell_v they_o they_o shall_v die_v if_o they_o do_v eat_v of_o the_o forbid_a fruit_n and_o shall_v these_o be_v part_n of_o your_o faith_n will_v you_o believe_v the_o devil_n when_o he_o speak_v against_o god_n but_o of_o this_o i_o have_v speak_v more_o full_o before_o 4._o cap._n 4._o prove_v the_o contrary_a to_o this_o out_o of_o your_o own_o man_n yet_o i_o will_v here_o add_v some_o few_o reason_n to_o show_v that_o negation_n or_o negative_a proposition_n can_v be_v article_n of_o faith_n or_o principle_n of_o faith_n 23._o lib._n 1._o poster_n c._n 23._o aristotle_n do_v prove_v by_o two_o argument_n that_o a_o affirmative_a proposition_n be_v better_a than_o a_o negative_a first_o because_o the_o affirmative_a be_v better_a know_v then_o the_o negative_a for_o the_o negative_a can_v be_v know_v without_o the_o affirmative_a but_o the_o affirmative_a may_v without_o the_o negative_a as_o the_o habit_n may_v be_v define_v without_o privation_n but_o not_o privation_n without_o the_o habit_n as_o see_v may_v be_v define_v without_o any_o mention_n of_o blindness_n but_o blindness_n can_v be_v define_v without_o mention_n of_o see_v second_o affirmation_n do_v speak_v of_o be_v negation_n of_o not_o be_v but_o be_v be_v better_a than_o not_o be_v to_o the_o same_o effect_n in_o his_o book_n 3._o lib._n 2._o c._n 3._o de_fw-fr coelo_fw-la 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d affirmation_n be_v before_o privation_n he_o be_v the_o same_o man_n in_o his_o metaphysics_n where_o he_o put_v negation_n inter_fw-la entia_fw-la rationis_fw-la which_o have_v no_o be_v in_o themselves_o if_o not_o be_v how_o can_v they_o be_v principle_n in_o any_o scicence_n much_o less_o in_o divinity_n it_o be_v a_o true_a note_n of_o your_o zuarez_n upon_o the_o metaphysics_n that_o mensura_fw-la debet_fw-la &_o nota_fw-la esse_fw-la &_o certa_fw-la ut_fw-la sit_fw-la nota_fw-la oportet_fw-la ut_fw-la entitatem_fw-la habeat_fw-la ut_fw-la fit_a certa_fw-la oportet_fw-la ut_fw-la in_o indivisibili_fw-la consistat_fw-la that_o can_v be_v know_v which_o have_v not_o entity_n real_a entity_n say_v your_o suarez_n when_o any_o negation_n be_v know_v of_o necessity_n we_o must_v first_o know_v that_o whereof_o it_o be_v a_o negation_n 6._o prima_fw-la primae_fw-la q._n 72._o 63_o &_o secunda_fw-la secundae_fw-la q._n 79._o 3._o andrea_n vega_n francisc_n hist._n trid._n con_n p._n 1._o 179_o in_o metaph._n â—5_n c._n 7._o q._n 6._o idem_fw-la suarez_n this_o be_v the_o doctrine_n of_o your_o great_a schooleman_n aquinas_n he_o be_v one_o of_o your_o great_a divine_n who_o say_v at_o your_o council_n of_o trent_n that_o no_o true_a negative_a have_v in_o itself_o the_o cause_n of_o his_o truth_n but_o be_v so_o by_o the_o trutth_v of_o a_o affirmative_a negation_n as_o negation_n nullam_fw-la omninò_fw-la dicunt_fw-la entitatem_fw-la sed_fw-la solam_fw-la absentiam_fw-la ejus_fw-la quod_fw-la negatur_fw-la they_o tell_v of_o no_o be_v but_o only_o a_o absence_n of_o that_o which_o be_v deny_v say_v your_o fonseca_n see_v then_o that_o proposition_n of_o faith_n be_v principle_n and_o principle_n can_v be_v prove_v by_o any_o thing_n that_o be_v before_o they_o or_o better_o know_v than_o they_o and_o that_o nothing_o can_v be_v know_v without_o real_a be_v and_o that_o negation_n be_v prove_v by_o affirmation_n how_o can_v they_o be_v proposition_n or_o principle_n of_o faith_n and_o lest_o you_o shall_v wander_v in_o your_o reply_n i_o will_v press_v two_o argument_n out_o of_o your_o own_o man_n entia_fw-la rationis_fw-la non_fw-la sunt_fw-la principia_fw-la in_o ulla_fw-la scientia_fw-la fine_a suarez_n in_o his_o metaphys_n in_o fine_a negationes_fw-la sunt_fw-la entia_fw-la rationis_fw-la ergo_fw-la negationes_fw-la non_fw-la sunt_fw-la principia_fw-la in_o ulla_fw-la scientia_fw-la praesertim_fw-la in_o theologia_n principia_fw-la fidei_fw-la habent_fw-la causam_fw-la finalem_fw-la negationes_fw-la non_fw-la habent_fw-la causam_fw-la finalem_fw-la ergo_fw-la negationes_fw-la non_fw-la sunt_fw-la principia_fw-la fidei_fw-la proposition_n of_o faith_n be_v foundation_n and_o a_o foundation_n must_v be_v positive_a or_o it_o will_v bear_v nothing_o upon_o it_o go_v round_o about_o a_o building_n and_o say_v a_o thousand_o time_n over_o here_o be_v no_o stone_n and_o here_o be_v no_o stone_n and_o so_o all_o along_o you_o will_v never_o lay_v a_o foundation_n shall_v the_o mason_n by_o say_v i_o will_v not_o lay_v this_o nor_o that_o foundation_n come_v and_o claim_v his_o wage_n shall_v the_o tiler_n by_o lay_v on_o no_o tile_n say_v that_o he_o have_v cover_v the_o house_n or_o the_o carpenter_n by_o square_n and_o join_v no_o timber_n build_v the_o wall_n the_o article_n of_o our_o faith_n be_v in_o the_o apostle_n creed_n all_o affirmative_a and_o positive_a there_o be_v not_o one_o negation_n among_o they_o the_o question_n between_o we_o be_v about_o unwritten_a tradition_n purgatory_n invocation_n of_o saint_n transubstantiation_n worship_v of_o image_n and_o the_o rest_n before_o allege_v out_o of_o paulus_n secundus_fw-la his_o creed_n all_o which_o i_o deny_v and_o therefore_o be_v no_o article_n of_o my_o faith_n for_o no_o man_n will_v deny_v his_o own_o faith_n all_o those_o we_o deny_v we_o lay_v no_o such_o foundation_n let_v they_o which_o have_v lay_v it_o maintain_v it_o we_o be_v content_v that_o purgatory_n transubstantiation_n
as_o if_o it_o be_v our_o tenet_n and_o this_o must_v be_v our_o ground_n to_o infer_v that_o proposition_n this_o be_v your_o petitio_fw-la principii_fw-la you_o beg_v a_o principle_n which_o i_o will_v not_o grant_v you_o and_o so_o the_o building_n fall_v for_o want_n of_o a_o foundation_n your_o argument_n be_v thus_o major_n if_o protestant_n be_v the_o true_a visible_a church_n of_o god_n than_o all_o sort_n of_o man_n who_o in_o every_o age_n have_v the_o foresay_a infallible_a faith_n have_v learn_v it_o by_o hear_v protestant_n preacher_n who_o name_n may_v yet_o be_v find_v in_o history_n as_o the_o name_n of_o those_o be_v find_v who_o in_o every_o former_a age_n do_v teach_v and_o convert_v the_o people_n of_o several_a nation_n unto_o the_o faith_n of_o christ_n minor_n but_o the_o protestant_n be_v the_o true_a church_n ergo_fw-la all_o sort_n of_o man_n etc._n etc._n not_o to_o meddle_v with_o the_o sequel_n of_o your_o major_n which_o be_v false_a as_o i_o will_v show_v 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