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ground_n church_n faith_n infallible_a 3,632 5 9.8838 5 true
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A85228 Certain considerations of present concernment: touching this reformed Church of England. With a particular examination of An: Champny (Doctor of the Sorbon) his exceptions against the lawful calling and ordination of the Protestant bishops and pastors of this Church. / By H: Ferne, D.D. Ferne, H. (Henry), 1602-1662. 1653 (1653) Wing F789; Thomason E1520_1; ESTC R202005 136,131 385

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18._o the_o gate_n of_o hell_n shall_v not_o prevail_v s._n mat._n 16._o the_o spirit_n of_o truth_n shall_v guide_v you_o into_o all_o truth_n s._n joh._n 16._o and_o the_o like_a can_v be_v draw_v to_o concern_v counsel_n but_o by_o many_o consequence_n and_o not_o at_o all_o to_o concern_v they_o in_o such_o a_o infallible_a guidance_n as_o the_o romanist_n will_v have_v 7._o name_n the_o assistance_n promise_v to_o they_o that_o meet_v in_o christ_n name_n now_o to_o know_v the_o importance_n of_o this_o place_n the_o promise_n and_o condition_n must_v be_v consider_v the_o promise_n of_o christ_n be_v in_o the_o midst_n of_o they_o be_v make_v as_o we_o see_v to_o two_o or_o three_o even_o to_o the_o mean_a ecclesiastical_a meeting_n or_o synod_n and_o therefore_o can_v assure_v that_o infallible_a guidance_n which_o among_o the_o romanist_n be_v apply_v only_o to_o general_n counsel_n or_o to_o the_o pope_n with_o his_o consistory_n what_o then_o it_o must_v needs_o imply_v 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see_v also_o the_o vanity_n of_o their_o reproach_n that_o we_o leave_v every_o man_n to_o his_o private_a judgement_n and_o reason_n that_o we_o open_v a_o gap_n to_o all_o sectary_n to_o work_v confusion_n when_o they_o get_v force_n in_o any_o church_n for_o however_o we_o leave_v man_n the_o use_n of_o their_o reason_n and_o judgement_n in_o order_n to_o their_o own_o believe_v yet_o in_o order_n to_o reformation_n we_o require_v not_o only_o just_a cause_n in_o regard_n of_o intolerable_a error_n or_o superstition_n but_o also_o due_a authority_n for_o the_o carry_v it_o on_o in_o the_o way_n of_o the_o church_n these_o particular_n be_v speak_v to_o more_o or_o less_o in_o the_o first_o part_n of_o the_o former_a book_n now_o for_o the_o further_o clear_v of_o this_o point_n of_o the_o english_a reformation_n and_o defend_v it_o so_o against_o the_o reproach_n of_o papist_n that_o no_o sectary_n
and_o define_v against_o it_o then_o be_v all_o in_o the_o church_n bind_v to_o believe_v so_o or_o sin_n against_o conscience_n 30._o and_o indeed_o it_o necessary_o follow_v upon_o their_o ground_n and_o reason_n of_o believe_v all_o thing_n viz._n the_o papal_a infallibility_n now_o consider_v what_o pope_n have_v be_v and_o may_v be_v how_o ready_o may_v all_o of_o that_o persuasion_n be_v bring_v under_o the_o woe_n denounce_v by_o the_o prophet_n isa_n 5.20_o against_o those_o that_o call_v good_a evil_n light_a darkness_n truth_n error_n virtue_n vice_n thus_o have_v the_o people_n be_v put_v off_o with_o half-communion_n contrary_a to_o our_o saviour_n institution_n and_o make_v to_o believe_v it_o be_v not_o so_o thus_o bring_v to_o bow_v down_o to_o grave_v image_n and_o to_o worship_n they_o contrary_a to_o the_o express_a word_n of_o god_n command_n and_o yet_o bind_v to_o believe_v it_o be_v not_o so_o thus_o have_v they_o be_v raise_v here_o into_o rebellion_n and_o treason_n against_o their_o natural_a prince_n upon_o pope_n pius_n 5._o his_o bull_n and_o thereupon_o to_o believe_v rebellion_n be_v good_a service_n to_o god_n and_o his_o church_n thus_o prince_n themselves_o have_v be_v bring_v to_o incestuous_a marriage_n and_o to_o believe_v they_o not_o sinful_a upon_o the_o pope_n dispensation_n as_o our_o hen._n 8._o many_o year_n believe_v till_o upon_o better_a examination_n he_o see_v how_o vain_a and_o ungrounded_a the_o judgement_n and_o sentence_n of_o the_o pope_n be_v 31._o belief_n not_o all_o agree_v about_o the_o chief_a ground_n of_o their_o belief_n but_o they_o be_v not_o all_o agree_v about_o this_o ground_n of_o belief_n papal_a infallibility_n for_o though_o it_o be_v public_o profess_v and_o maintain_v in_o their_o school_n especial_o where_o the_o jesuit_n be_v in_o the_o chair_n and_o none_o within_o the_o pope_n reach_n dare_v open_o gainsay_v it_o yet_o be_v it_o not_o every_o where_o believe_v within_o the_o romish_a communion_n a_o fair_a pretence_n it_o carry_v to_o advance_v the_o work_n of_o that_o church_n or_o court_n of_o rome_n rather_o and_o the_o romish_a emissary_n make_v good_a advantage_n of_o it_o when_o they_o have_v to_o deal_v with_o the_o unwary_a and_o more_o simple_a sort_n of_o christian_n but_o when_o it_o fall_v under_o conscionable_a examination_n what_o submission_n of_o belief_n it_o gain_v from_o those_o of_o that_o communion_n we_o may_v see_v by_o these_o example_n clement_n the_o 7._o be_v resolute_a in_o his_o sentence_n for_o the_o incestuous_a marriage_n of_o henry_n the_o 8._o yet_o both_o university_n of_o this_o land_n with_o many_o abroad_o some_o of_o italy_n itself_o declare_v against_o it_o pope_n paul_n 5._o be_v as_o peremptory_a in_o his_o definitive_a sentence_n against_o the_o venetian_n yet_o be_v resist_v by_o that_o whole_a state_n and_o their_o subject_n and_o in_o the_o end_n force_v to_o recall_v it_o and_o many_o now_o live_v can_v remember_v what_o difference_n there_o be_v among_o the_o romish_a catholic_n here_o upon_o the_o same_o pope_n breves_fw-la send_v out_o against_o the_o oath_n of_o allegiance_n some_o urge_v obedience_n to_o they_o some_o refuse_v and_o show_v their_o reason_n for_o their_o dissent_v which_o may_v be_v see_v draw_v up_o in_o a_o book_n set_v out_o by_o mr._n william_n howard_n one_o of_o the_o romish_a communion_n and_o do_v speak_v the_o reasonableness_n of_o what_o be_v say_v by_o we_o for_o the_o judgement_n of_o discretion_n allow_v to_o private_a person_n or_o inferior_n 32._o when_o there_o come_v shame_n upon_o any_o papal_a sentence_n as_o in_o the_o former_a example_n they_o have_v excuse_n from_o the_o condition_n of_o the_o matter_n define_v or_o the_o concernment_n of_o it_o to_o the_o church_n or_o the_o intention_n of_o the_o pope_n in_o define_v it_o with_o a_o distinction_n of_o in_o and_o out_o of_o his_o chair_n to_o play_v fast_o and_o loose_a by_o for_o they_o can_v shift_v he_o into_o it_o or_o out_o of_o it_o according_a to_o the_o event_n and_o success_n of_o his_o definitive_a judgement_n but_o those_o example_n will_v not_o admit_v of_o such_o exception_n for_o though_o in_o hypothesi_fw-la they_o be_v in_o and_o about_o particular_a action_n and_o person_n yet_o in_o thesi_fw-la they_o be_v of_o general_a concernment_n as_o may_v be_v easy_o make_v to_o appear_v and_o whether_o the_o pope_n be_v in_o his_o chair_n or_o no_o when_o he_o send_v forth_o such_o definitive_a sentence_n i_o know_v not_o but_o i_o think_v in_o business_n of_o such_o concernment_n to_o the_o church_n and_o christian_a people_n it_o shall_v have_v beseem_v he_o to_o give_v his_o judgement_n not_o car_n eles_o as_o a_o private_a doctor_n but_o as_o the_o pastor_n general_n of_o the_o church_n and_o it_o have_v be_v worth_a his_o pain_n to_o go_v up_o to_o his_o chair_n for_o infallible_a determination_n and_o if_o he_o do_v it_o not_o then_o when_o so_o much_o cause_n so_o much_o time_n to_o do_v it_o when_o shall_v any_o man_n ever_o know_v certain_o that_o the_o pope_n define_v or_o speak_v such_o or_o such_o a_o thing_n in_o his_o chair_n that_o there_o may_v be_v sure_a ground_n for_o belief_n and_o obedience_n 33._o bel._n in_o the_o place_n above_o cite_v infallibility_n difference_n about_o papal_a infallibility_n treat_v of_o the_o pope_n infallibility_n set_v down_o several_a opinion_n about_o it_o of_o which_o this_o be_v one_o that_o the_o pope_n may_v be_v a_o heretic_n and_o teach_v heresy_n this_o opinion_n he_o will_v not_o say_v be_v full_o heretical_a because_o they_o be_v tolerate_v in_o the_o church_n that_o hold_v it_o but_o haeresi_fw-la proxima_fw-la at_o next_o door_n to_o heresy_n yet_o as_o near_o as_o it_o be_v to_o heresy_n it_o be_v the_o sentence_n general_o of_o the_o popish_a church_n in_o france_n and_o other_o place_n too_o and_o see_v their_o agreement_n this_o may_v not_o be_v teach_v at_o rome_n nor_o the_o contrary_a of_o it_o at_o paris_n now_o albeit_o this_o party_n have_v unanswerable_a reason_n and_o argument_n for_o reject_v the_o infallibility_n of_o the_o papal_a judgement_n and_o set_v up_o a_o general_n council_n above_o he_o which_o will_v be_v good_a out_o of_o the_o mouth_n of_o a_o protestant_n yet_o they_o also_o when_o they_o have_v to_o deal_v with_o protestant_n tell_v of_o the_o infallible_a guidance_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n of_o the_o pope_n as_o vicar_n of_o christ_n and_o the_o visible_a head_n of_o his_o church_n and_o boast_v of_o their_o church_n as_o build_v upon_o the_o rock_n in_o all_o which_o they_o thwart_v themselves_o for_o what_o privilege_n of_o infallibility_n or_o other_o can_v the_o roman_a church_n pretend_v to_o above_o other_o but_o by_o s._n peter_n and_o then_o must_v it_o be_v derive_v by_o his_o suppose_a successor_n the_o bishop_n of_o that_o church_n or_o how_o can_v they_o affirm_v the_o pope_n to_o be_v head_n and_o deny_v he_o the_o supremacy_n or_o say_v a_o council_n be_v above_o he_o or_o how_o apply_v that_o promise_n of_o the_o rock_n to_o their_o church_n but_o by_o allow_v s._n peter_n and_o so_o his_o successor_n to_o be_v that_o rock_n and_o consequent_o to_o give_v the_o stability_n and_o infallibility_n to_o their_o church_n if_o that_o place_n prove_v any_o to_o be_v in_o it_o this_o party_n indeed_o will_v say_v they_o make_v the_o pope_n but_o a_o ministerial_a head_n to_o the_o church_n which_o how_o it_o reconcile_v the_o premise_n or_o save_v all_o they_o pretend_v to_o by_o the_o pope_n i_o see_v not_o but_o sure_o it_o set_v they_o at_o a_o wide_a difference_n with_o their_o fellow_n catholic_n who_o be_v of_o a_o contrary_a persuasion_n let_v they_o agree_v it_o among_o themselves_o yet_o note_v we_o their_o disagreement_n in_o point_n of_o such_o high_a concernment_n as_o touch_v the_o very_a groundwork_n of_o their_o faith_n and_o consequent_o their_o uncertainty_n where_o to_o state_n the_o infallibility_n and_o thereupon_o their_o unreasonableness_n in_o exact_v upon_o that_o pretence_n of_o infallible_a guidance_n absolute_a submission_n of_o belief_n to_o all_o thing_n define_v and_o propound_v by_o that_o church_n and_o last_o their_o vanity_n in_o think_v to_o satisfy_v we_o with_o say_v they_o all_o agree_v in_o yield_a submission_n to_o all_o that_o be_v define_v by_o general_a counsel_n and_o that_o the_o difference_n we_o object_n to_o they_o about_o pope_n and_o council_n be_v not_o define_v 34._o for_o first_o they_o must_v not_o here_o put_v we_o off_o with_o submission_n of_o silence_n or_o external_a peaceable_a subjection_n which_o require_v not_o that_o infallible_a guidance_n the_o church_n of_o rome_n boast_v of_o but_o a_o autoritative_a judgement_n or_o unappealeable_a authority_n which_o we_o quarrel_v not_o if_o well_o state_v as_o will_v appear_v present_o but_o they_o must_v speak_v that_o
convocate_v manage_v the_o business_n and_o conclude_v what_o be_v to_o be_v do_v in_o it_o and_o the_o sovereign_a prince_n with_o parliament_n confirm_v and_o give_v public_a establishment_n to_o that_o which_o be_v so_o conclude_v and_o agree_v upon_o by_o they_o see_v also_o champny_n do_v large_o insist_v upon_o this_o point_n of_o the_o supremacy_n in_o his_o 15_o 16._o cha._n upon_o occasion_n of_o deprivation_n of_o popish_a bishop_n for_o refuse_v the_o oath_n of_o supremacy_n under_o q._n elizabeth_n we_o will_v defer_v far_a prosecution_n of_o this_o point_n till_o we_o meet_v with_o he_o below_o cap._n iii_o of_o the_o lawful_a call_n of_o our_o english_a protestant_n bishop_n against_o doctor_n champny_n a_o sorbonist_n and_o of_o the_o first_o prejudice_n from_o other_o reform_a church_n that_o have_v not_o bishop_n 1._o this_o writer_n have_v spend_v 8._o chap._n of_o his_o book_n against_o the_o vocation_n of_o minister_n in_o the_o reform_a church_n which_o want_v bishop_n advance_v in_o the_o 9_o against_o our_o english_a protestant_n bishop_n and_o labour_n what_o he_o can_v more_o indeed_o then_o all_o his_o fellow_n beside_o to_o make_v their_o vocation_n or_o ordination_n unlawful_a to_o that_o end_n arise_v defect_n in_o ordination_n how_o arise_v he_o lay_v this_o as_o the_o groundwork_n on_o which_o his_o whole_a discourse_n must_v proceed_v that_o ordination_n which_o give_v lawful_a call_n to_o the_o pastor_n of_o the_o church_n must_v be_v valid_a and_o right_a in_o respect_n of_o the_o ordainer_n of_o the_o ordain_v and_o of_o the_o ordination_n itself_o or_o form_n of_o it_o and_o that_o a_o defect_n in_o any_o of_o these_o render_v the_o ordination_n and_o so_o the_o call_n of_o the_o party_n ordain_v unlawful_a cap._n 9_o pag._n 308._o we_o admit_v the_o consideration_n of_o those_o three_o respect_n as_o proper_a and_o pertinent_a to_o the_o business_n in_o hand_n and_o do_v grant_v that_o there_o may_v be_v such_o a_o defect_n in_o any_o of_o they_o as_o will_v render_v the_o ordination_n either_o unlawful_a for_o the_o use_n or_o plain_o void_a or_o nul_fw-fr for_o the_o substance_n of_o it_o 2._o romish_a our_o english_a bishop_n receive_v ordination_n from_o the_o romish_a he_o begin_v to_o examine_v the_o call_n and_o ordination_n of_o our_o bishop_n and_o priest_n according_a to_o the_o first_o respect_n of_o their_o ordainer_n viz._n those_o of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n for_o from_o thence_o the_o english_a church_n receive_v her_o bishop_n and_o pastor_n together_o with_o the_o christian_a faith_n in_o the_o time_n of_o gregory_n the_o first_o this_o we_o acknowledge_v of_o the_o english_a though_o the_o britain_n have_v the_o christian_a faith_n and_o their_o bishop_n before_o and_o have_v continue_v that_o ordination_n and_o call_n of_o bishop_n with_o uninterrupted_a succession_n down_o from_o those_o first_o christian_n bishop_n to_o cranmer_n and_o our_o first_o reform_v bishop_n the_o romish_a ordainer_n he_o as_o he_o must_v needs_o allow_v of_o and_o approve_v the_o order_n give_v by_o they_o as_o good_a and_o lawful_a but_o will_v make_v our_o plea_n from_o thence_o void_a by_o our_o own_o judgement_n and_o according_a to_o the_o protestant_a doctrine_n concern_v they_o and_o the_o order_n receive_v from_o they_o the_o sum_n of_o his_o reason_n be_v brief_o this_o 1._o from_o the_o judgement_n and_o practice_n of_o other_o reform_a church_n which_o renounce_v ordination_n by_o bishop_n especial_o from_o rome_n plead_v their_o vocation_n upon_o other_o ground_n and_o therefore_o either_o they_o or_o we_o can_v have_v no_o lawful_a pastor_n no_o church_n 2._o from_o the_o judgement_n and_o doctrine_n general_o of_o all_o english_a protestant_n by_o who_o the_o pope_n be_v hold_v to_o be_v antichrist_n or_o antichristian_a therefore_o we_o must_v acknowledge_v we_o receive_v our_o ordination_n and_o calling_n if_o from_o rome_n from_o the_o minister_n of_o antichrist_n by_o who_o also_o they_o of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v account_v heretic_n therefore_o we_o can_v have_v no_o lawful_a call_n from_o such_o by_o who_o also_o the_o order_n there_o give_v be_v account_v antichristian_a abominable_a sacrilegious_a and_o therefore_o can_v be_v lawful_o receive_v by_o we_o last_o by_o who_o the_o sacramental_a character_n be_v explode_v and_o therefore_o no_o power_n of_o order_n can_v be_v receive_v by_o we_o all_o this_o he_o will_v have_v follow_v upon_o protestant_a doctrine_n to_o defeat_v we_o of_o our_o plea_n from_o romish_a ordainer_n this_o be_v the_o sum_n of_o his_o reason_n in_o the_o 9_o and_o 10._o chapt._n we_o shall_v examine_v they_o in_o order_n as_o brief_o as_o we_o can_v 3._o church_n the_o seem_a prejudice_n from_o other_o reform_a church_n first_o for_o the_o judgement_n and_o practice_n of_o other_o reform_a church_n he_o urge_v that_o they_o renounce_v our_o plea_n of_o have_v ordination_n by_o bishop_n and_o of_o receive_v any_o order_n from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n esteem_v they_o antichristian_a and_o plead_v extraordinary_a vocation_n from_o whence_o he_o conclude_v against_o they_o that_o they_o have_v no_o lawful_a pastor_n therefore_o no_o church_n and_o consequent_o against_o we_o that_o we_o be_v bind_v by_o our_o plea_n of_o ordination_n by_o bishop_n and_o those_o derive_v from_o rome_n to_o renounce_v the_o fellowship_n of_o those_o church_n which_o hitherto_o we_o account_v of_o as_o sister_n and_o to_o stand_v alone_o divide_v from_o all_o other_o church_n as_o we_o be_v from_o the_o roman_a and_o to_o hold_v the_o church_n of_o england_n the_o only_a true_a church_n thereby_o confine_v the_o catholic_a church_n within_o the_o bound_n of_o that_o kingdom_n which_o consider_v the_o number_n of_o puritan_n brownist_n anabaptist_n all_o which_o defy_v these_o ordination_n and_o that_o plea_n will_v be_v too_o too_o narrow_a to_o this_o purpose_n he_o cap._n 9_o pag._n 315_o 316._o etc._n etc._n 4._o now_o although_o the_o different_a condition_n of_o some_o reform_a church_n do_v not_o immediate_o concern_v we_o who_o have_v retain_v the_o regular_a way_n of_o ordination_n by_o bishop_n yet_o because_o the_o romanist_n make_v it_o a_o matter_n of_o reproach_n to_o we_o and_o some_o in_o these_o time_n who_o covenant_v the_o extirpation_n of_o episcopal_a government_n seek_v a_o defence_n in_o it_o for_o such_o schismatical_a attempt_n we_o will_v answer_v to_o the_o former_a charge_n and_o try_v what_o may_v be_v due_o conclude_v upon_o the_o judgement_n and_o practice_n of_o other_o reform_a church_n first_o therefore_o we_o may_v say_v in_o general_a however_o it_o stand_v with_o the_o reform_a church_n which_o want_v ordination_n by_o bishop_n and_o whatever_o be_v conclude_v on_o they_o by_o champny_n and_o other_o as_o to_o the_o point_n of_o have_v lawful_a pastor_n or_o be_v church_n yet_o his_o last_o inference_n of_o our_o restrain_v the_o catholic_a church_n within_o such_o narrow_a compass_n as_o this_o kingdom_n be_v altogether_o inconsequent_a for_o we_o do_v not_o exclude_v the_o roman_a church_n out_o of_o the_o bound_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n neither_o do_v it_o follow_v upon_o our_o division_n or_o want_v of_o external_a communion_n between_o we_o that_o either_o it_o or_o we_o shall_v be_v whole_o sever_v from_o the_o catholic_a much_o less_o do_v we_o exclude_v the_o greek_a and_o eastern_a church_n who_o have_v their_o ordination_n and_o succession_n of_o pastor_n from_o the_o apostle_n as_o well_o as_o the_o romish_a church_n yea_o and_o we_o may_v add_v here_o we_o can_v exclude_v those_o reform_a which_o want_v the_o regular_a way_n of_o ordination_n from_o belong_v to_o the_o catholic_a church_n 5._o bishop_n all_o reform_a church_n not_o without_o ordination_n by_o bishop_n but_o 2._o all_o reform_a church_n i.e._n such_o as_o have_v purge_v themselves_o of_o romish_a error_n and_o superstition_n beside_o the_o english_a be_v not_o without_o government_n and_o ordination_n by_o bishop_n those_o church_n which_o be_v the_o remain_v of_o the_o ancient_a reform_a bohemian_o and_o be_v now_o in_o and_o about_o poland_n or_o those_o part_n do_v still_o retain_v bishop_n as_o appear_v by_o their_o book_n set_v out_o 1626._o contain_v the_o substance_n of_o their_o doctrine_n the_o manner_n of_o their_o government_n synod_n etc._n etc._n neither_o be_v denmark_n and_o sweden_n without_o their_o bishop_n and_o therefore_o champny'_v other_o inference_n that_o in_o this_o plea_n of_o ordination_n by_o bishop_n and_o that_o derive_v from_o the_o romish_a church_n we_o of_o england_n stand_v alone_o be_v also_o false_a 6._o now_o 3._o bishop_n the_o judgement_n of_o other_o reform_a church_n of_o our_o bishop_n as_o for_o reform_a church_n in_o a_o strict_a sense_n such_o as_o those_o of_o france_n geneva_n germany_n which_o champny_n name_v c._n 9_o what_o their_o judgement_n be_v of_o our_o bishop_n and_o ordination_n by_o they_o
than_o choice_n we_o leave_v it_o to_o champny_n and_o other_o romanist_n to_o conclude_v desperate_o upon_o they_o and_o all_o that_o be_v not_o in_o their_o way_n enclose_v the_o whole_a church_n within_o their_o communion_n and_o judge_v of_o christian_n not_o so_o much_o by_o their_o union_n to_o christ_n by_o the_o band_n of_o faith_n and_o charity_n eph._n 4.13.16_o as_o to_o his_o pretend_a vicar_n by_o subjection_n to_o he_o for_o so_o they_o conceive_v of_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n as_o of_o a_o society_n join_v together_o under_o one_o pastor_n the_o pope_n or_o bishop_n of_o rome_n and_o do_v according_o define_v it_o and_o acknowledge_v the_o member_n of_o it_o make_v themselves_o thereby_o papist_n rather_o then_o christian_n and_o cut_v off_o from_o the_o church_n not_o only_o for_o defect_n in_o ritu_fw-la apostolico_fw-la the_o order_n leave_v by_o our_o saviour_n and_o his_o apostle_n which_o be_v the_o charge_n they_o have_v against_o the_o reform_a church_n that_o be_v without_o bishop_n but_o also_o for_o fail_v ritu_fw-la romano_n the_o not_o observe_v in_o this_o point_n of_o ordination_n the_o additional_a rite_n and_o papal_a invention_n use_v there_o which_o be_v the_o charge_n they_o have_v against_o we_o and_o for_o which_o they_o conclude_v we_o have_v no_o bishop_n nor_o lawful_a pastor_n as_o will_v appear_v below_o chap._n iu._n of_o the_o second_o prejudice_n from_o the_o protestant_n opinion_n of_o the_o pope_n be_v antichrist_n and_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n heretical_a 1._o now_o proceed_v we_o to_o his_o second_o argument_n against_o our_o plead_n of_o ordination_n derive_v from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n it_o be_v ground_v upon_o the_o judgement_n of_o our_o own_o writer_n and_o among_o they_o some_o bishop_n that_o hold_v the_o pope_n be_v antichrist_n and_o therefore_o that_o we_o fall_v by_o our_o own_o sentence_n and_o doctrine_n for_o how_o can_v the_o minister_n of_o christ_n say_v he_o receive_v due_a and_o lawful_a ordination_n from_o the_o minister_n of_o antichrist_n or_o how_o can_v we_o think_v that_o christ_n shall_v leave_v the_o power_n of_o ordain_v pastor_n for_o the_o feed_n of_o his_o church_n which_o he_o buy_v with_o his_o precious_a blood_n and_o for_o the_o dispense_n of_o his_o holy_a word_n and_o sacrament_n in_o the_o hand_n of_o his_o swear_a enemy_n c._n 9_o p._n 320._o etc._n etc._n to_o this_o argument_n i_o answer_v the_o more_o willing_o because_o i_o see_v how_o presbyterian_o general_o with_o those_o of_o other_o sect_n suffer_v themselves_o by_o such_o inconsequency_n and_o mistake_n to_o be_v abuse_v into_o many_o inconvenience_n to_o the_o great_a disturbance_n of_o the_o church_n here_o be_v two_o point_n to_o be_v speak_v to_o 1._o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o pope_n be_v antichrist_n 2._o the_o inference_n against_o our_o ordination_n 2._o antichrist_n of_o the_o opinion_n of_o the_o pope_n be_v antichrist_n to_o the_o first_o that_o there_o be_v much_o antichristian_a doctrine_n teach_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n invent_v broach_v maintain_v by_o the_o pope_n and_o other_o that_o have_v be_v and_o be_v chief_a in_o that_o church_n be_v most_o evident_a to_o any_o man_n that_o have_v any_o reasonable_a insight_n into_o christianity_n and_o that_o they_o which_o hold_v and_o maintain_v such_o doctrine_n be_v and_o may_v be_v call_v antichrist_n be_v not_o to_o be_v deny_v for_o so_o there_o be_v many_o antichrist_n as_o st._n john_n tell_v we_o of_o his_o time_n but_o that_o the_o pope_n be_v the_o antichrist_n be_v no_o point_n of_o our_o faith_n none_o of_o the_o article_n of_o our_o religion_n prophecy_n indeed_o be_v matter_n of_o faith_n and_o aught_o to_o be_v believe_v that_o they_o shall_v be_v fulfil_v before_o they_o come_v to_o pass_v and_o that_o they_o be_v fulfil_v when_o the_o scripture_n assure_v we_o they_o be_v but_o when_o it_o leave_v we_o to_o gather_v the_o event_n by_o sign_n deliver_v in_o prophetic_a expression_n and_o more_o general_a term_n such_o as_o be_v the_o description_n of_o antichrist_n come_v then_o to_o say_v such_o a_o prophecy_n be_v now_o fulfil_v or_o such_o a_o state_n or_o person_n be_v that_o antichrist_n be_v not_o the_o act_n of_o faith_n but_o the_o work_n of_o reason_n make_v a_o conclusion_n or_o inference_n upon_o application_n of_o the_o sign_n and_o mark_n describe_v he_o in_o the_o prophecy_n to_o such_o or_o such_o a_o person_n or_o state_n 3._o sense_n which_o admit_v several_a sense_n now_o as_o king_n james_n in_o his_o praemonition_n to_o christian_a prince_n fall_v upon_o this_o point_n by_o occasion_n of_o heresy_n lay_v to_o his_o charge_n by_o those_o of_o rome_n and_o the_o oath_n of_o allegiance_n declare_v by_o pope_n paul_n to_o be_v against_o the_o catholic_a faith_n pursue_v it_o indeed_o eager_o and_o with_o a_o long_a discourse_n not_o as_o a_o article_n of_o his_o faith_n but_o as_o a_o problematical_a persuasion_n to_o show_v he_o can_v better_v and_o with_o more_o appearance_n of_o truth_n prove_v the_o pope_n to_o be_v antichrist_n than_o the_o pope_n can_v prove_v he_o to_o be_v heretic_n or_o himself_o to_o have_v such_o superiority_n over_o king_n so_o we_o must_v take_v that_o assertion_n of_o our_o writer_n de_fw-la papâ_fw-la antichristo_fw-la comparative_o not_o only_o in_o regard_n of_o ourselves_o who_o they_o call_v and_o hold_v to_o be_v heretic_n to_o say_v antichristianism_n agree_v more_o proper_o to_o they_o than_o heresy_n to_o we_o but_o also_o in_o regard_n of_o all_o other_o person_n or_o state_n that_o have_v fall_v under_o the_o suspicion_n of_o be_v antichrist_n to_o say_v of_o all_o that_o yet_o appear_v in_o the_o world_n the_o sign_n and_o mark_n of_o antichrist_n agree_v most_o plain_o to_o the_o pope_n and_o popedom_n i_o can_v but_o say_v i_o be_o much_o incline_v to_o think_v as_o learned_a zanchy_a seem_v to_o do_v in_o his_o tract_n the_o fine_a seculi_fw-la that_o whatever_o be_v do_v already_o in_o the_o work_n of_o the_o mystery_n of_o iniquity_n the_o antichrist_n will_v be_v reveal_v in_o that_o seat_n and_o sit_v in_o that_o papal_a chair_n 4._o many_o antichrist_n in_o a_o large_a and_o more_o remiss_a sense_n there_o have_v be_v and_o will_v go_v before_o the_o appear_a of_o that_o great_a one_o and_o a_o great_a appearance_n of_o such_o there_o have_v be_v in_o the_o popedom_n already_o bernard_n and_o many_o other_o that_o live_v within_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n discover_v the_o appearance_n of_o antichrist_n in_o the_o papal_a court_n and_o speak_v it_o indeed_o the_o spirit_n of_o antichrist_n which_o saint_n john_n say_v do_v work_v in_o the_o heretic_n of_o his_o time_n 1._o ep._n c._n 4._o v._n 3._o who_o by_o tertul._n be_v call_v praecursores_fw-la illius_fw-la antichristi_fw-la spiritus_fw-la the_o forerunner_n of_o that_o great_a antichrist_n advers._fw-la marc._n l._n 5._o c._n 16._o that_o spirit_n i_o say_v of_o antichrist_n have_v long_o wrought_v in_o the_o chief_a ruler_n of_o the_o romish_a church_n not_o only_o by_o reason_n of_o heretical_a and_o antichristian_a doctrine_n there_o teach_v especial_o that_o principle_n of_o mis-belief_n papal_a infallibility_n the_o ground_n of_o their_o faith_n or_o believe_v than_o which_o no_o one_o can_v better_v fit_a the_o turn_n of_o antichrist_n or_o be_v a_o ready_a way_n to_o apostasy_n from_o christ_n but_o also_o by_o reason_n of_o exorbitant_a power_n there_o challenge_v and_o usurp_v first_o over_o all_o bishop_n in_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n for_o which_o by_o saint_n gregory_n warrant_n we_o may_v style_v the_o pope_n the_o forerunner_n of_o antichrist_n then_o over_o king_n and_o all_o that_o be_v call_v go_n 5._o now_o in_o the_o second_o place_n prejudice_n the_o seem_a prejudice_n consider_v the_o inference_n make_v from_o this_o champny_n as_o we_o insinuate_v above_o draw_v it_o ad_fw-la impossibile_fw-it or_o to_o this_o absurdity_n therefore_o christ_n leave_v his_o church_n in_o the_o hand_n of_o his_o swear_a enemy_n give_v he_o the_o power_n of_o ordain_v or_o provide_v pastor_n for_o his_o church_n and_o tell_v we_o the_o reform_a church_n do_v therefore_o abhor_v the_o order_n and_o reject_v all_o thing_n else_o that_o come_v from_o rome_n answ_n first_o suppose_v the_o pope_n to_o be_v such_o antichrist_n or_o antichristian_a ruler_n it_o be_v but_o part_n of_o the_o christian_a church_n that_o they_o rule_v in_o and_o why_o shall_v it_o seem_v so_o strange_a to_o any_o that_o christ_n shall_v leave_v part_n of_o his_o church_n under_o antichristian_a tyranny_n when_o it_o be_v foretell_v plain_o that_o antichrist_n must_v sit_v in_o the_o temple_n of_o god_n or_o why_o shall_v it_o seem_v so_o strange_a and_o impossible_a to_o champny_n that_o christ_n shall_v suffer_v his_o swear_a enemy_n to_o sit_v as_o chief_a pastor_n in_o the_o roman_a