yea and three National Councels from Pope Stephen in the yeere 250 i Bellar. de Ro. Pont. l. 2. c. 25. 46. Lindan panopl. l. 7. c. 89. Possevinus in Apparat. titul Carthag the Bishops of Carthage Schismatized from all Popes of Rome for an hundred yeres together about the yeere 409. lastly k Bellar. de Ro. Pont. l. 2. c. 31. Idem de Matri c. 15. art 2. the Greeke Church cut off from the Roman for 300. yeeres are sufficient testimonies there may be a true Church of God though seuered and diuided from the Pope of Rome And here in this kingdome it was no Protestant but Popish Bishops that concluded in a Nationall Synode l Institut of a Christian set foorth anno 1537. by Authority our King might if he pleased create a Pope of his owne in his own kingdoms and dominions and yet remaine a member of the Catholike Church Pap. Well the best is you haue beene so tedious in your answeres that I haue I thank God forgotten all that you haue said for your reformed Church Prot. But I will helpe that quickly by summing vp of all into these 12. Positions 1 We haue a Church as hauing Doctrine Saluation Discipline 2 It is a portion of the Catholique Church 3. It hath a Spirituall vnion of doctrine with the vntainted members of the Church of Rome 4 And yet hath seuered her selfe from the Church of Rome by crying against and dissenting from her Superstions 5 Which some of vs hold no true Church of Gods in regard of the preuailing Faction 6 Although we iudge charitably of the Saluation of some in that Church 7 Who notwithstanding are saued not as Papists but as Christians 8 And in one lumpe or communion with this Church liued ours before the Reformation 9 Which then for want of a Generall did seuer her selfe by a Nationall Councell from the same 10 Nor was it any by-respect of the Kings but God and the cry of that age that caused this reformation 11 Nor doe our reformed Churches dissent amongst themselues in doctrine but in outward politie and discipline onely 12 Our Bishops and Priests come by a lineall Succession from Henry the eights time nor can a supposall of Heresie cut off this descent CHAP. 2. Of the Scriptures Pap. DOe you then hold this Church of yours to bee the ground of your Faith and reason of your beleeuing So as you doe therefore beleeue all the points of your saluation to be true because the Church doeth teach and instruct you in the same Or haue you any other rule and ground of your faith Prot. The Authority and good conceipt we haue of Gods Church a August contra Epistol fundam c. 5. prepareth vs to beleeue the points of our Saluation and serueth as an introduction to bring vs to the discerning and perfect apprehension of these mysteries of our faith but the Scripture onely is the ground and reason of our beleeuing For as the b Iohn 4.29 Samaritans were induced and drawne on to beleeue in Christ by that talk of the woman but hauing heard Christ himselfe professe plainely they beleeue no longer for her saying but c Iohn 4.42 because they heard him speake himselfe So doe we beginne to beleeue moued thus to doe by the good conceipt we haue of the Church but rest not in it as the ground of our beleeuing but onely in the infallible assurance of Gods truth in the booke of Scriptures Pap. Then God helpe you if that be your last resolution For our Church cannot erre but your Scriptures without the helpe of the Church to tell you so much can neuer bee ascertained vnto you to be the word of God And therefore what assurednesse of beleefe can you propose your selues vpon so vnsetled a foundation Prot. The Catholike Church indeed Wald. doctr fid l. 2. art 2. c. 27. spread ouer the world cannot erre damnably though the Church of Rome and all other particula Churches may as your owne Writers confesse But the Scriptures wee know to be the word of God not because the Church or Churchmen doe tell vs so much but by the Authority of God himselfe a Caluin instit l. 1. c. 7. d. 4. whom we doe most certainely discerne to speake in his word when it is preached vnto vs. For if we bring pure eyes and perfect senses the maiestie of God forthwith presenteth it selfe vnto vs in the holy Scriptures and beating downe all thoughts of contradicting or doubting things so heauenly forceth our hearts to yeeld assent and obedience vnto the same And therefore if you doubt whether that which you reade in your Bible be the word of God or finde any reluctancy in your vnderstanding to the doctrine of the same it is in vaine to flie vnto either Church or Churchmen to be perswaded in this point but down vpon your knees and pray feruently vnto God for Faith and the illumination of the Holy Ghost which can only assure you of the trueth of the Scriptures Caluin instit l. 1. c. 7. dist 5. For after wee are enlightned by the Spirit we do no longer trust either our owne iudgement or the iudgement of other men or of the Church that the Scriptures are of God but aboue all certainety of humane iudgement wee most certainely resolue as if in them wee saw the maiestie and glory of God that by the ministerie of men they came vnto vs from Gods owne most sacred mouth Pap. But what certaine ground of faith can you place on the Scriptures seeing by the seuerall interpretations of men and women they are turned and wrested like a nose of wax to euerie priuate designe and purpose Doe not you obserue how the Catholikes Protestants and especiallie the Brownists and Anabaptists doe fit all their turnes out of the holie Scriptures on which of these senses and imaginations is your faith rooted or peraduenture haue you some odde capritchious kinde of interpretation of your owne apprehension to direct you in these businesses Prot. Wee lay-folkes are licensed in the Church of England to reade Doe all interprete 1. Cor. 12.30 but not to interprete Scriptures excepting onely those passages which containe the necessarie points of our Saluation the which passages are so plaine easie euery where that any man or woman of the meanest capacitie especiallie if he or she be instructed in their Catechisme or grounds of religion may perfectly conceiue Staplet cont 6. q. 7. exp si art and vnderstand them But for the harder and more difficult places we leaue them to be interpreted by our Church-men in their Sermons and dailie ministerie For the ordering of which interpretations there are as I haue beene told 10. seuerall helps Obserued out of D. Field M. Hooker Chemnitius and Trelcatius the which if they be followed wil be sure and vnfallible guides to bolt out the true meaning of each place of Scripture 1 An illumination of the vnderstanding by
Faith 5. If you endeauour to abstaine from sinne for feare of offending so good a God 6. If you beginne to endeauour to liue godly and righteously because it is the will and commandement of God 7. If you take more delight then you did in praying to God 8. If you thanke God priuately for these his good motions By these eight points you may soone know whether you haue true faith or not Q. What is the infallible marke of true and iustifying Faith A. The effectuall applying of Christ and all his benefits to your owne soule in particular This application doeth make a difference betwixt iustifying Faith and all other kindes of faith which cannot saue vs As Historicall Faith which is a bare knowledge Faith of Miracles which is a bare assent Temporary Faith which is but a bare profession of the Faith for a time embraced onely for the desire of Knowledge Credite Profite Q. What is the meaning of this assertion of S. Paules that we are iustified by Faith alone A. The meaning is this Euen as when you giue your almes to a begger it is receiued by his hand alone and yet his hand is not alone when it receiues these alms but accompanied with an arme sinewes and arteries Euen so when God offers vnto you Christ and his righteousnesse you doe receiue him by Faith alone and yet this Faith which receiues Christ is neuer alone but still accompanied with Charitie and good workes In a word 1. To holde almes is proper to the hand and not the arme and to holde Christ proper to Faith and not good workes 2. You are iustified by Faith alone and yet if your faith be alone it cannot iustifie you Q. What is the meaning of S. Iames when hee sayth That wee are iustified by workes and not by Faith A. The meaning is this 1. Faith iustifieth vs before God good works before men 2. Faith makes vs good workes declare vs to bee iustified 3. Faith giues vs our first iustificatioÌ„ good works our second which is our Sanctification or holinesse Q. What is the least and weakest degree of Faith that I may build vpon to keepe mee from despaire in case I finde not all those alterations in my selfe which you spake of before A. 1. If you desire Faith or pray vnto God that you may desire Faith 2. If you can pray or desire of God to enable you to pray 3. If you find fault with your want of faith and desire sometimes of God to helpe this want You are for all that the childe of God RESOLVTIONS OPPOSITIVE DIVINITIE OR The ordinary Obiections of Papists against them of the reformed Churches DIALOGVE Papist Protestant CHAP. I. Of the Church Pap. THe Church of England is no Church 〈…〉 strange considering your owne Writers conclude a Church to be there where there is found 1 doctrine of saluation Georg. Cassan consult titul de Ecclesia according to Scripture 2 the vse of the Sacraments and 3 outward discipline or Ecclesiasticall gouernement although the Churchmen should fall short of those Apostolicall and primitiue perfectioÌ„s which flourished in their predecessours Pap. Yea but it is not the Catholike Church mentioned in the Creed I beleeue in the Catholike Church Prot. 1. No more is the Church of Rome for there was no Church at all in Rome when the Creed was made by the Apostles at Hierusalem Ruffin in Symb. Augustin Ser. 115. euery Apostle making his Article when they were to depart to plant particular Churches in Rome Id. Serm. 181. de Tempore England and other places 2. But our Church is a branch and portion of that Catholike Church as is also the a Theoriani collo Damianus à Gots Onuphrius in vita Iulij Greeke Armenian Aethiopian and Syrian as well if not rather then the Romane Church Pap. Peraduenture these other Churches may bee members of that Catholike Church as ioyned and vnited with vs but the vnion betwixt your Church and ours hath beene cut asunder aboue an hundred yeeres agone and therefore you are quite cut off from the Catholike Church Prot. This is more then you know or then I am bound to beleeue For Cassand consult pag. 930. meerly spirituall consisting in Faith Hope Charitie true Doctrine c. Institut of a Christian fol. 19. This vnion of the members of the Catholike Church is inward not outward and therefore discerned onely by God himselfe We neuer sundred our selues from the people or Church of Rome but from the Faction or Court of Rome not from the sincere doctrine of that Church but from the corruptions and innouations foisted into that Church And therefore although we be neuer so hated Cassand ibid. and excommunicated by your Priests yet we may be still vnited in internall societie with your Church if you retaine those principles of Religion sound and vnaltered in the which our forefathers died and as we well hope were saued Pap. How are you then gone from vs if you be still vnited with vs. Prot. As the Prophets went from the corrupt Churches of the Iewes and as Christ and his Apostles from the Scribes and Pharises clamando dissentiendo by crying out against your corruptions and dissenting from your innouations and this a Cas consult pag. 929. Gerson de pâ—â—â—…tate Ecclesiae your owne men allowed vs to doe Pap. I but some of your men say that wee had no true Church of God in the West of many yeeres before Luthers time Prot. Their meaning is to be limited in respect of the Predominant and preuailing Faction Your Church held I confesse a sauing profession of the Trueth of God but your Church-men mingled therewith many damnable impieties And these innouators onely carrying the greatest shew of the Church are denied by our Writers to bee the true Church of God Pap. This it is we Catholikes obserue You dare not for all your malice deny the Church of Rome to haue in some sort a sauing profession of the truth of God but our Priests conclude directly that your Church hath no truth at all and that a Barclaius paraenes li. 1. pag. 7. none can be saued in that Church Prot. As in euery kingdome the generall estate is nothing so forward actiue quicke and peremptorie as the priuate Factions and yet is found at the last more wise and stayed in finall resolution So in the Catholike Church the b Can. loc theol l. 4. c. 1. Lindan panopl. lib. 4. cap. 7. Factions are euer more headie and precipitate in their denunciations of Heauen and Hell then the maine body thereof Hence it commeth to passe that although the Greeke Armenian Ethiopian and Syrian and for the most part the Protestant doth censure charitably of those Laickes who liuing rather In then Of the Church of Rome hold the grounds of the doctrine of Saluation without any notorious mixtures with the late superstitions and impieties crept into the same yet doth the a Quodlibet
Father 3 August de ciuit Dei l. 8. cap. 27. The better sort of Christians did not so And we hold it very idle to 4 Plin. Secâ—â— l. 4. ep 8. propose for our imitation any other then the best and most absolute patterne Pap. You do also speake basely of the blessed virgin and compare her to your owne wiues and such baggages Prot. A rayling Frenchman doth charge Melancthon with such a comparison Florim Remond en son Histoir ex Hom. Mel. in euang de incarnat but that booke or passage hee cites is not to bee found among the workes of that most learned and modest writer Howeuer our Church hath neuer a * Rogers in art 22. Saint Ruffyn as yours hath to heale all frenzies and madnesses and we count no better of those desperate speeches that any one shall vomit against the glorious virgin Yet I thinke your men abuse her farre more * Leo 10. ep ad Bemb 17. one calling her a Goddesse another * Rosar Mar. the Goddesse of the sea which is the title of Venus Making of Mary the euer Virgin a meere * in Petr. Arbit Quartilla that could neuer remember she was a Virgin In euery deed you all abuse her For * Polan synt l. 3. c. 24. as one wel obserues when you say your Aue Maries you pray for her But wee hold as to pray for her to be most * Aug. serm 17. de verb. Ap. iniurious so to pray to her to be most * Epiph. l. 3. aduers haeres vnlawfull and superstitious Pap. Also you neuer vse to pray for the dead although the Auncients did so Prot. Wee dare not indeed For if they bee in Heauen * P. Lomb. 4 sent distinct 45. we shall wrong them if in Hell we cannot helpe them and Purgatory * Roffens contra art Luther art 18. your owne men confesse was neuer heard of amongst the Auncients Now for those prayers for the dead in the old Liturgies they were conceiued if you marke them for men dying Caessand prec eccles and passing not dead already and so they are still vsed in the Church of England and most diligently deuourly in the Collegiate Church of Westminster But to stretch and extend these * Vide epist Vratislau apud Scultet Annal. dec 1. pa. 152. Collects to men stone-dead and past their particular iudgements was a pretty proiect of the Monkes and Friars and they were very wel payd for their wit and inuention as you shall finde when you shall haue occasion to purchase a Masse for any of your kindred departed Pap. Nay say you nothing of the Masse for out of malice and derogation from the Sacrifice therin offered you haue bred in the people such a sleight opinion of the Blessed Sacrament as they make of it but a bare signe or a token or a figure or I cannot tell what And dare not conceiue Christ to be there for feare of imprisonment or the high Commission Prot. Wee doe indeed acknowledge no oblation in the blessed Sacrament but a * See common praier booke liuely commemoration of that oblation of Christ which he offered vpon the Crosse for our redemption Nor any Sacrifice at all but that Sacrifice of Collects prayers and thankesgiuing which the Church powres out vnto God at the receiuing of the Sacrament And these commemorations and collects are the reason why the Supper of the Lord was termed by the Auncients a Sacrifice an Oblation the Eucharist the Hoast c. But the reuerence due to this great Sacrament is as obseruable as the maner of Christs presence therein is vnexpressable The names of a figure a signe a type and the like wee keepe to expound the words onely but not as though they were keyes to open and vnfolde the maner of the mysterie The speech is to be expounded figuratiuely because * Schoolemen in 4. sent This and Christs body before the pronuntiation of the last syllable of the wordes are disparats and of a contrary nature But Christ is present there for the matter a Aug. confess apud Cassand consult art 10. substantially b Caluin in 1. Cor. 11.21 truely c Melan. in ep ad Palat. Granguellam really nay most truely d Fortunatus Caluinista apud Greg. de Valent. l. 1. de praesen Christi in Euchar. c. 7. dist Istius and most really and more truely and more really then the bread and the wine but for the maner ineffably and vnexpressably And this is that Caluinisticall doctrine you so much cauill at and deride 1 Wee honour the Saints with Ecclesiasticall obseruation but not with a Spirituall adoration 2 The ancient Fathers made Orations but no Orisons vnto them 3 The blessed Virgin is more abused by Papists who make her To giue sucke to a Priest Vincent Spec. hâ—st l. 7. 84. Mend Thomas a Beckets old hose Cantip. lib. 2. c. 29.12 Heale a scabd head Caes l. 7. c. 25. Clippe a Monke Id. l. 7. c. 51. Kisse another Id. l. 7 c. 33. Sing to a third Id. l. 7. c. 22. Lie betweene man and wife Vincent lib. 7. c. 8. Supplie a Nunnes place that was gone to a Bawdy house Caesar lib. 7. cap. 35. Bring an Abbesse to bed gotten with childe by her Seruing-man Vincent Spec. hist lib. 7. cap. 87. 4 Wee are ready to bury but not to adore reliques 5 We pray for men departing as the Fathers did not for the departed as the Friars did 6 Christ is in the Sacrament really for the matter ineffably for the maner CHAP. 5. Some idle personall exceptions Prot. HAue you any other points of our Religion that you stumble at Pap. These are the main points of your religion questioned But some aspersâ—ons more are cast vpon the persons of your Ministers As that they lie wilfullie and against their knowledge in points of Diuinity and are thus zealous in the cause out of a desire onely to preserue their great estates in the Church wheras our Priests haue no other worldlie comfort but the goodnesse of their cause and the testimonies of their consciences Prot. Let your common discretion be your iudge in this case whether wee that ground our doctrines vpon the word of God interpreted by those ten rules I formerly set downe or these men that put all to the determination of the Church that is to their own proper phantasies and the grosse exposition of an vnlearned Pope are most likely to gull the world with crotchets and Chimaeras Besides you know how full this kingdome is of men well read as in all sciences so especially in Diuinity You know and yet none knowes it so well as they that best know him the profound learning and deepe apprehension of the King himself as hauing perfectly digested the very body and bulke of all sacred knowledge And is this a stage for ignorance imposture to play their parts on Or doeth this
learned Monarch the Lord of 3. Kingdomes woed and sought vnto by all the Catholike Princes palliate his religion in hope of a Bishoprick These are poore and toothlesse aspersions Then for our Ecclesiasticall estates they are so par'de and pol'de with duties and impositions all which had their Originall from the Court of Rome that the time of the charge of breeding vp a minister would raise him a better meanes then he hath in the Church in any other trade or trafficque whatsoeuer The King is gracious to his seruants of all professions But a Countrey Minister cannot inne for the haruest of a whole yeere what a Iesuite can get in an hours confession Lastly concerning these professors of pouerty the Priests and the Iesuites it is too well knowne they want no maintenance What by traducing our Nation abroad and seducing our people at home their bones are full of marrow and their eyes swell with fatnesse and what the Statute hath taken from vs cogging and cheating hath drawen vpon them I mean the priuie Tithes and Beneuolences of the Kingdome But to choke this Obiection in one word That our meanes is no cause to keepe vs in this profession witnes our Brethren in France and elsewhere who without the same means teach preach the selfe same doctrine Pap. They also inform vs that your Ministers haue neither learning nor honestie Prot. It is true indeede they teach their Nouices that the greatest Doctor in our Church doth not vnderstand the common grounds of Diuinity and must of * Britanno-Romanus pag. 19. necessity bee put to his A. B. C. againe But common reason can inform you whether this bee true or not Againe they are onely the base fugitiues and discontented runnagates of our own nation that spread these rumours who thinke their Countrie-men the grossest fooles in Christendome that they dare thus amuse them and lead them by the nose with such impossible assertions And therefore I will giue you a touch heere how other Papists haue ingeniously acknowledged the learning and piety of many Protestants * Aeneas Syluius de orig Bohem c. 35. Pope Pius commended Hus for learning and purity of life Alph. lib. 2. aduers haeres tit Ador. haer 2. Alphonsus de Castro Oecolampadius for all kinde of knowledge and the tongues especially * In annot in Tert. coron Militis In defens conc Trid. l. 1. p. 41. Rhenanus also Conradus Pellican as a man of a wonderfull sanctity and erudition Andradius likewise Chemnitius for a man of a sharpe wit and great iudgement Costerus all the Protestants for their ciuill behauiour their almes their building of hospitals and forbearing from reuiling swearing * Enchirid. c. 2. p. 101. De prohib l. 2. c. 13. Gretzer himselfe our ordinarie writers to bee for the most part of great learning 1 Recherches de la Fraunce pag. 910. 511. and iudgement Stephen Paschier held Caluin worthie set his opinions aside to be compared for zeale and learning to the chiefe Doctors of the Catholique Church 2 Lib. 11. epist 11. Epist Erasmus held Luther of that integritie of life that his very enemies had nothing to cast in his dish 3 Lindan l. 3. Strom. cap. 33. Lindanus acknowledged Melancthon to be adorned with all kind of learning In a word your Writers themselues did so applaud the persons of their aduersaries for learning and pietie that 4 Index expurg distinct 2. Pope Clement the 8. was faine to command all your Controuersie-writers to bee reuiewed and these graces and praises bestowed on our men to be blotted out and expunged And therefore when you next heare a Iesuite in this theme thinke vpon these true relations and withall laugh at him and pray for him Pap. Sir I haue receiued some satisfaction that matters are not so farre out of square in the Church of England as I haue beene informed But yet my conscience will not serue mee to come to your congregations because there are beside these triuiall many other points of doctrine neuer heard of amongst Protestants which be in very deed the Caballas and mysteries of the Romane-Catholique Religion You haue beene very tedious in your answeres and declarations I pray you therefore bestow the last Chapter vpon me to shew the reasons why so many Ladies and good Soules refuse to conforme themselues to the Church of England Prot. With all my heart I will therefore end my speach with the summing vp this fifth Chapter and leaue the euent to God and your Conscience 1. The meanes of our Churchmen are not so great as to make them maintaine a false religion but their religion is so true as it makes them contented with any meanes 2. Yet in other countries where no hope of preferment appeares there appeares an equall zeale of our Religion 3. Our Church-men are commended for their liues and learning by the pens of their prime aduersaries CHAP. 6. Reasons of refusall to leaue the Romish religion collected out of printed Authors Pap. I Cannot leaue my Religion I. Reason Because We must simply beleeue the Church of Rome whether it teach true or false Stapl. Antidot in Euang. Luc. 10.16 pag. 528. And if the Pope beleeue there is no life to come wee must beleeue it as an Article of our Faith Busgradus And we must not heare Protestant Preachers though they preach the Truth Rhem. vpon tit 3.10 Blasph And for your Scripture we litle weigh it For the Word of God if it bee not expounded as the Church of Rome will haue it is the word of the Diuell Hosius de expresso verbo Dei II. Reason You rely too much vpon the Gospel and S. Paules Epistles in your Religion whereas Blasph the Gospel is but a fable of Christ as Pope Leo the tenth tels vs. Apol. of H. Stephen fol. 358. Smeton contra Hamilton pag. 104. And the Pope can dispense against the New Testament Panormit extra de diuortiis And hee may checke when hee pleases the Epistles of S. Paul Carolus Ruinus Consil 109. num 1. volum 5. And controule any thing auouched by all the Apostles Rota in decis 1. num 3. in nouiss Anton. Maria in addit ad decis Rotae nou de Big n. 10. And there is an eternall Gospel to wit Blasph that of the holy Ghost which puts down Christs Cirellus a Carmelite set it foorth III. Reason You attribute all your Saluation to Faith in Christ alone Whereas He is the Sauiour of men onely but of no women Dial. of Diues and Pauper compl 6. cited by Rogers vpon the Artic. and Postellus in Iesuits Catech. l. 1. cap. 10. For women are saued by S. Clare Mother Iane. Som. in Morn de eccl cap. 9. Postellus in Iesuits Catech. lib. 8. cap. 10. Nay to speake properly S. Francis hath redeemed as many as are saued sithence his dayes Conformit of S. Fran. And the blood of S. Thomas a Becket Hor. Beat. Virg. And sometimes one man by his Satisfactions redeemes another Test Rhem. in Rom. 8.17 IV. Reason In your Church there is but one way to remission of sinnes which you call Faith in Christ but we haue many For we put away Our Venials with a litle holy water Test Rhem. in Rom. 8.17 Mortals by 1. Merits of the B. Virgine Hor. B. Virg. 2. The blood of Becket ib. 3. Agnos Dei or holy Lambes Cerem l. 1. t. 7. 4. Little parcels of the Gospel Breuiar 5. Becomming Franciscans confor l. 1. fol. 101. 6. A Bishops pardon for 40. dayes a Cardinals for a 100. daies and the Popes for eeuer Tak Camaer apud Espens in 1. ad Tim. V. Reason You stand too precisely vpon your Sacraments and require a true Faith in the partaker Whereas with vs To become a Monke or a Nunne is as good as the Sacrament of Baptisme Aquin. de ingres relig l. 2. c. 21. And the very true and reall body of Christ may bee deuoured of dogs hogges cattes and rattes Alex. Hales parte 4. q. 45. Thom. parte 3. q. 8. art 3. VI. Reason Then for your Ministers euery one is allowed to haue his wife or else enforced to liue chastly whereas with vs the Pope himselfe cannot dispense with a Priest to marrie no more then he can priuiledge him to take a purse Turianus found fault withall by Cassand Consult art 23. But whordome is allowed all the yeere long See Sparkes discouery pag. 13. constitut Othon de concubit cleric remouend Abhominable And another sinne for Iune Iuly August which you must not know of Allowed for this time by Sixtus Quartus to all the family of the Cardinall of S. Lucie vessel Grouingens tract de indulgent citat a Iacob Laurent Iesuit lib. pag. 196. vide Io. Wolfij lection memorab centen 15 p. 836. For indeed the wickednes of the Church-men is a prime argument of the worthinesse of the Roman Church Bellar. l. 4. de Rom. Pont. cap. 14. artic 28. And the Pope can make that righteous which is vnrighteous l. 1. Decretal Greg. tit 7. c. 5. And yet can no man say vnto him Sir why do you so In extrau tom 22. titul 5. c. ad Apostolatus VII and last Reason You in the Church of England haue cast off the Bishop of Rome Blasph whereas the Bishop of Rome is a God Dist. 96. c. Satis euidenter Panorm cap. Quanto Abbas FINIS
pag. 342. Papist b Russic conun c. 23. p. 103. Russeist c Sle. Hist l. 5. Anabaptist d Allens confes Familist and e Protest p. 16. Puritan hold no Church a Church of God but his owne conuenticle and all to bee damn'd that are not of his societie and combination Now what beliefe you shall affoord these Bouteseux of the Catholike Church that dispose of Heauen and Hell as if it were their own Fee-simple I leaue to your wisdome and common vnderstanding Pap. Me thinks you now put me in minde of another obiection which vsually we make against the Protestants of England that they bring in too much good fellowship in religion and make Saluation a flowre which growes in euery mans garden Seeing that according to their Tenets Papist Protestant Anabaptist and Familist may euery one of them by meanes offered in his own Church as a portion or fragment of the Catholike Church attaine vnto Saluation Prot. If you were learned I could answere you in a word that none of these three Sectories considered in his owne Formality Qua talie as he is a Papist Anabaptist or Familist can euer attaine vnto Saluation but only as he is a Christian man admitted by Baptisme vnto the visible Church there made partaker of Gods word and Sacraments For then although these blessed means are very much weakened and obscured in their Synagogues by the malice of Sathan and inuentions of men yet may that holy Spirit that * Iohn 3.8 bloweth where he listeth worke in such a mans heart by these weake instruments and the rather the more the Word is faithfully preached and the Sacraments be in those places sincerely administred a true faith in Christ Iesus to bring him to saluation So then we doe not hold that Papists Anabaptists and Familists but onely that some Christians liuing in their congregations may though with great difficultie in comparison of this flourishing Church of ours and these admirable meanes of Saluation tendered in the same by the speciall mercy of God be saued and preserued If we be in an errour it is safer to erre in Charity then in Malice and praecipitancie considering the euent hereof is vnknowen to either of vs. Pap. I but where was your Church before this reformation began Prot. 1. When our Sauiour Christ with-drew the people from the a Matt. 16.12 leauen of the Scribes and Pharisees to the bread b Iohn 6.35 which came down from heauen and to saluation by faith in his Name was it fitting to demaund of him where his Church was before that Reformation 2. When these Churches of c 1. Corin. 5.1 Corinth d Galat. 3.1 Galatia e Reuel 2.12 Pergamus and f Reuel 2.18 Thiatyra were full of abuses if some part onely vpon the preaching of the Apostles had reformed themselues and so a diuision had growen would you straight wayes haue tax't them of Nouelty or ask't them where their Church had beene before this reformation 3 When the Apostles cast off â—he Lawe of Moses excepting only those g Acts 15.29 three or foure Ceremonies and when the Primitiue church some hundred yeeres after cast off those Ceremonies also for I finde them breathing of their last as it were about the times of h Anno 〈◊〉 140. Dialog quâ— insâ—â—â—â—tur Tryphon Iustin Martyr had it not beene a poore challenge of the Iewes or Traskists of those times to demaund where this vnceremoniall Church lay hid before the reformation I answer then that our Church before this reformation began liued together in one communion with yours with toleration of all those abuses which you haue still retained and wee most iustly reiected Pap. I but I hope you dare not compare in the gifts of the Spirit with Christ his Apostles or those worthies of the primitiue Church And therefore how presumed you to reforme your selues Reformation being a worke fitter for a generall Councell to haue gone about then for a small handfull of Northerne people Prot. Luther in epist ad Galat. in praefat distinctio admissa in Comitijs Augustanis ab ipsis Germanis Principibus Scultet annal decad 1. pa. 43. The Court of Rome had so gained vpon the Church of Rome that is the Pope and his conclaue of Cardinals had wriggled in themselues to that transcendencie of power ouer the rest of the Clergie and well minded laity that it appeared both at a In the yeere 1415. Constance b In the yeere 1546. Trent there was small hope of Reformation from such a Councell where the Pope the partie to bee reformed became the party reforming and supreame Iudge and president of the Reformation it selfe Although poore seduced ignorant women are much caried away with the name of the Councell of Trent yet you will quickly find out this ridiculous absurdity In a generall Councell as now it is held sithence the decay of the Empire the Pope is the party to be accused yet puts vp his owne endictment passeth a iury of his own vassals and finde they what they will being to giue finall iudgement he will be sure to do as his supposed predecessor taught our Sauiour to doe to wit fauour himselfe Matth. 16.22 So as there was no hope of doing good by a Generall Councell See the history of the Councell of Trent vnles it were a generous and free Councell and such a one the Pope you may bee sure would neuer abide Gerson de concil vnius obed And therefore one of your own writers concludes that in such a case seuerall kingdomes are to reforme themselues by National Councels which England and Denmark did put in practise Pap. Yea but it is too wel knowne It was no zeale of Reformation but carnall respects that mooued King Henry to touch vpon religion Prot. To you it seemes it is giuen to know these secrets but I see no reason we should thinke so The King could not bee induced to this reformation as a meanes to possesse himselfe of the Abbeies for they were already swallowed vp 31. Henr. 8. Nor as a preparatiue for his woing as Saunders thinks because Fisher the Bishop of Rochester who opposed his marriage made vp the one and twentieth prelate in banishing the Pope out of this Kingdome Instruction of a Christian in the Preface But without doubt the finger of God was the cause whatsoeuer was the hint or occasion Act. 23.1 Festus his popularitie and humour of pleasing gaue S. Paul occasion to appeale to Cesar and to visite Rome where and when hee layd the first stone of the Romane church Would you like it well a Protestant should say that your Church was founded vpon courtship and popularity If any carnall respect whetted on the king that was but the opportunity God onely was the first mouer and prime Agent in this reformation Pap. Nay surely God is the God of vnity but your Church being once seuered from the Romane
was presently cantl'd out into as many factions almost as there are Countries witnes the Lutherans soft and rigid the Caluinists Puritans Conformitans Brownists Anabaptists c. So as one may easily guesse from what Lerma and fenny ground this Hydra of so many heades had her first Originall Prot. This argument sounds very bigge in a ladies closet and weighs much with the ignorant and vnlearned people but with a man but of a reasonable vnderstanding this seeming diuision is no scandall at all to our reformed Churches What man of any reading in the Histories of the time but knowes well that after the trumpet for this reformation had blowne the first warning by a In the yeere 1375 Wicklef b In the yeere 1410. Hus and Hierome of Prage and then the second by c de signis ruin eccl Gerson d 1411. Peter de Aliaco e Bucholcer Anno 1517. Cardinall Cusanus f in Theor. Picus Mirandula g Phil. Comin l. 3. Sauanorola and many others of whom we reade in h Guic. hist l. 4. Guicchiardyn when i In the yeere 1512. Luther in Germany blew the last and that there appeared no hope of a free and indifferent Councell so as seuerall kingdomes were thus necessitated to prouide and take care for themselues this worthy Act of Reformation beginning in sundry estates by reason partly of their diuers shapes and formes of gouernements and partly of a great disaduantage that one part of Christendome knew not what another did nor consulted with their fellowes that so they might with vnanimitie proceed in the same did necessarily produce a seeming difference in the outward formes of particular Churches But loe the goodnesse and prouidence of Almighty God Although these Churches haue seuerall faces yet haue they all but one heart there being no essentiall fundamentall or materiall difference amongst any of vs of the reformed Religion as you may easily finde by reading the confessions of our seueral churches And therfore for these odious Nick-names of Lutheran Caluinist Huguenot Zuinglian and the like be more sparing of them vntill you haue reconcil'd your own churchmen as your Minorits and Dominicans about the conception of the blessed Virgine your Iesuits and Dominicans about predestination and those dependant questions your Sorbonists and Iesuits about the bounding and mereing out the Regall and Papall Authority and you shall finde more doctrinall oppositions in your owne then you can imagin in our Churches But keepe you at home in your natiue countrey and looke without enuie or partialitie vpon this flourishing Church of England name me one Kingdom in all Europe that hath continued very neere this hundred yeres in that constancie and immutabilitie of doctrine or discipline Wee are ordered with that consecration that †Sand. de schis Angl. lib. 3. Archbishop ‖ 32. of Henry 8. Cranmer was we renounce the Pope by that abiuration that Archbishop Cranmer did we subscribe to those Articles of religion which * In the yeere 1552. Archbishop Cranmer in the Reformation pitch't vpon before we can be admitted to any Ecclesiasticall function Some wilde coults we haue that start and boggle at the first if they see but their owne shadowes but by the discipline of the Church they are curb'd and fetch 't about againe and taught in a little while to come on gently to this vniformitie and subscription So that malice it selfe cannot challenge the Church of England this most glorious portion of that Catholike Church of any fractions or diuisions in points of Doctrine Pap. Nay but I haue often heard that you haue no Bishops or Priests at all in your Church But that in the beginning of Q. Elizabeths raigne lay-men in the Parliament did appoint you Bishops who consecrated one another in a Tauerne at the * Sander de Schism lib. 3. Harding against Iewell Nags-head in Cheapside and that your Priests were ordered onely by these Parliamentary Prelates Prot. This tale of the Nags-head Harding Sanders and Stapleton haue forged out of their owne Nagges-heads without any ground or likelihood at all And yet as easily as they came by it it put a a M. Mason Archdeacon of Suff. Minister of our Church to an infinite deale of learned paines Who by his Maiesties speciall commandement did search out the auncient Records of the Archbishop of Canterbury agnized sithence by many Priests and Iesuits in the Clincke and other prisons and out of them hath composed a learned booke shewing the successiue Consecrations of all the Bishoppes of England from that first conuocation that b Institut of a Christian fol. 19. banisht the Pope about the yeere 1536 so as any Minister looking out that Bishop who gaue him Orders may presently ascend in a right line of Bishops to those Prelates that liued in the raigne of Henry the eighth before the reformation And therfore if your owne Priests be lawfull you may not quarrell with ours differing onely from yours in their renouncing of your impieties and superstitions Pap. This Record you speake of is somewhat to the purpose vnlesse the heresie of those first Bishops did disable them for granting of lawfull Consecrations and Orders Prot. c S. Basil Nazianz. S. Ambros S. Hierom. S. Austen were in their times called heretiques Lindan panopl. lib. 4. cap. 7. Heretique indeed is a common word for vs in the mouth of euery woman that is but a little Romanized But is it not strange how d Institut of a Christian fol. 18 he should be an Heretique that sayes the Creed and the Lords prayer in that literall and explicite sense and meaning that all the Fathers of the Church for the first 500. yeeres vnderstood the same Yet this is nothing to the point in hand For first if the Bishops in Queen Maries time were lawfull notwithstanding their being consecrated by Cranmer and other tainted Bishops as you terme them why may not the Bishops in Queene Elizabeth and King Iames his time expect the same priuiledge And secondly your owne e Dominic a◠Soto in 4. Sent. d. 25. Biel. in 4 d. 25. q. 1. Con. 4. Capreol in 4. d. 25. q. 1. art 3. c. Writers confesse that Heresie which we suppose but not yeeld these Prelates fallen vnto cannot rase out from that Character of a Bishop this inseparable power of consecrating and ordering Pap. Yet there remaines an obiection against your Church that it cannot possibly be a true Church because it is seuered from the true visible head thereof the Pope of Rome Prot. This is a stale obiection and soone answered The church of f Euseb li. 5. c. 23. Eras epist in Agrippa de vanit c. 59. Asia seuered from Pope Victor in the yeere 200. g Baron tom 3. ad ann 375. Athanasius and his fellowes from Faelix and Tiberius in the yere 375 h Euseb l. 7. c. 2. 3. 4. Casian consult art 7. Cyprian and his brethren