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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
ground_n	church_n	faith_n	infallibility_n	2,066	5	11.7830	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A70152	An ansvver to a popish pamphlet called the touch-stone of the reformed gospell. made speciallie out of themselves. By William Guild, D.D. and preacher of Gods word.	Guild, William, 1586-1657.	1656 (1656)	Wing G2202; ESTC R221580	101,567	372

Isai 59. 21 that sayeth As for me this is my Covenant with them sayth the Lord my spirit that is upon thee and my words which I haue put in thy mouth shal not depart out of thy mouth nor out of the mouth of thy seed nor out of the mouth of thy see●s-seed from hence forth and for ever according to Hugo Cardinalis That these words are spoken to Christ by the Father as Turrecremata also speaketh promising that God should so assist his Church and the Elect therin which are this seed spoken of even to the end of the World that there should ever be some that should hold the true profession of faith Which answere serveth also for Ioh 14. 16. 17. where Christ promiseth to his Apostles the Comforter who is the Spirit of truth whom the World cannot receive because they are not Elect and who should dwell in them and be in them as he is onelie in the Elect likewise The third place is Math. 18. 17. And if he neglect to heare the Church let him be to thee as a Heathen publican To which I answere that this place speaketh onelie of a particulare Church Which Papists granteth may erre as also relateth onelie to discipline and Church censures not to doctrine or determination in matters of faith but of fact and scandale The fourth place is Ephes 5. 27. where it is said That he might present to himself a glorious Church without spot or wrinckle Whereunto I answere That their late Estius out of Augustin showeth that the Apostle speaketh not of th● Church Militant but Triumphant and as shee shall be after the blessed Resurrection and this is also the exposition of Ierome lib. 3. dial cont Pelag. as also of Primasius Thomas sayeth hee As for the Fathers whom he only citeth but not their words never one of them in these places doeth prove his point But before I leave this point of the Popes infall●bilitie into which the Churches at last doth resolve I will insist heerein a little more seing it concerneth the whole Fabrick of poperie and is the basis whereon it standeth being that rock whereon the Church is built as Bellarmin teacheth lib. 4. de pont cap. 2. 3. And will batter the same with four arguments furnished by thēselves unto us Wherof the First is That this very question it self amongst Romanists Whether the Pope may be deposed for heresie presupposeth that he may be an Heretick and that he may be deposed for heresie Bellarmin granteth lib. 2. de pont cap. 30. § 5. saying Wee cannot deny but that Pope Adrian with his Councell at Rome yea with the whole eight generall Councell thought that the Pope for Heresie might bee judged adde this also that the estate of the Church sayeth he should be miserable if it should be forced to acknowledge him for their Pastour who were a ravening Wolfe 2. Howsoever it is now the most cōmon opinion that the pope cannot erre yet it is confessed that many Roman Catholick Doctours of great note do maintayne the contrary to wit that hee may erre not only personallie but also as Pope and judiciallie which as Bellarmin confesseth lib. 4. de pont cap. 2. was not onely the opinion of Nilus Gerson Almain and the Doctours of Paris but also of Pope Adrian the 6. Alfonsus à Castro To whom hee might haue added the Councels of Constance and Basil also Ockam Michael Cesenas Cardinall Cameracensis and Cusanus Waldensis Picus Mirandula Lyra Canus Erasmus their late Stella with all others who mantaine that the Councell is above the Pope These two assertions then being directlie contradictorie that the Pope cannot erre that the Pope even as Pope may erre and this last being maintayned by famous Doctours and Councels of the Roma● Church as said is wee may not onlie see what ther bragged of unitie is but also that papists haue no sure ground of their faith at all who build upon the Popes infallibilitie so much controverted amongst themselves and as yet in question 3. It is manifest that the Popes haue foullie erred de facto been Hereticks therefore it followeth that they may erre and so are not infallible And that they haue erred and beene Hereticks is witnessed by most famous Romanists for it is manifest sayth Alfonsus à Castro lib. 1. cont heres cap. 4. That Pope Liberius was an Arrian Anastasius the second a Nestorian so likewise doth Canus testifie Loc. Theol. lib. 6. cap. 8. that Honorius was a Monothelite and by the sixth and seventh generall Councels cōdemned as an Hereticks and their late Didacus Stella on Luke 22. 30. showeth that manie Popes have beene grosse Hereticks and Idolaters as Marcellinus sayeth he who sacrificed to Idols Liberius who was an Arrian as Platina and Bellarmin also witnesseth lib. 4. de pont cap. 9 and Anastasius the 2. who for the crime of Heresie sayeth hee was rejected of the Church and manie others who persisted not in the Catholike faith but were against the same Wherefore sayeth their owne Lyra on Math. 16. It is evident that the Churches stabilitie consisteth not on men either in regard of their ecclestiasticall dignitie or secular seing many Princes and Popes too haue beene found to haue made Apostafie from the faith 4. Out of their owne grounds I argue against the Popes infallibilitie thus 1. If he haue any such infallibiliitie he hath it as he is Bishope of Rome and consequentlie Peters alleadged successour 2. He cannot be Bishope of Rome but he must be in holie orders 3. He can not receive orders which papists call a sacrament but from him who hath power to ordain or giue orders upon which grounds that are granted I reason thus in respect That the validitie of a sacrament dependeth upon the intention of the giver as Bellar. teacheth lib. 3. de justifi cap. 8. Which none can know but the giver Therefore none can know that this Pope or any other is or hath beene infallible because he cannot be so except he be in holy orders from one that had power to give them and that hee that had that power had also an intention to give thē whose intention sayth Bellar. none can knowe and consequentlie à primo ad ultimum none can know whether such a Pope be trulie Pope or no by a second consequence whether he be infallible or no according to the pretended priviledge as he is Peters successour And so upō what an unsure sandie foundation papists build their faith and consequentlie their salvation let anie man judge But I cannot admire enough Bellarmins impudency that sayeth lib. 4. de pont cap. 2. That all Catholicks agree in this that if the Pope alone or with a particular Councell decerne in any thing that is doubtfull whether he erre or not yet hee is obedientlie to be heard by all the faithfull sayeth hee 8. THat the Church hath been hidden and invisible FOr stating this question aright we say not that

the Church professing the Christian name in common hath ben at anytime invisible but in it wee say that the true and sincere professours may be some times brought to that estate as the 7000. were in Israell who bowed not to Baal and as the sound and persecuted Orthodox Christians were by that prevalent faction of Arrians who then usurped the title of the onely true Church altho they were onely but a prevailling faction therein But this Pamphleter contendeth for a constant and conspicuous visibilitie to all of the Church of true and ●ound professours like a Citie on a hill c. by these Texts following 1. Math. 5. 14. Where our Saviour compareth his disciples to a Citie on a hill c. To whom I answere shortly that this is meaned of the Apostles who as their own Jansenius as also Maldonat expoundeth were a light to the World by their preaching and holie life Therefore sayeth Maldonat That by these three similituds of salt a light and a citie our Saviour would declare one and the same thing to wit how farre beyond other common Christians his Apostles and their successours should eminentlie shyne in life and doctrine and so doeth Chrisostome Theophylact Lyra Ferus and Carthusian expound this Text and not of any constant conspicuous visibilitie of the Church to all The second place which he bringeth is Math. 18. 17. tell the Church to which I answere that Origen Chrisostom and Hilarie on this place showeth that a particulare Church and the Rulers therof are meaned as hath beene said which is indeed visible to it owne members speciallie in tyme of peace whereas in time of persecution the Rhemists themselves on 2. Thess 2. telleth us That this is like to be the case of the Romā Church it self under Antichrist that the faithfull shall lurke and haue their communion amongst themselves onlie in private so to have no conspicuous visibilitie to all whence it followeth that what may bee the case of the Church at one time the same may be or hath been the case of the Church at another The third place is 2. Cor. 4. 3. which sayeth If our Gospell be hid it is to them that are lost To which I answere that there is no word heere of a Church or of persons but of the gospell it self which being preached to any if it be not believed is said to be hid from misbelievers as is said in the words following Whose minds the god of this world hath blinded that they should not belie●e as the Lord threatneth Isai 6. 9. which is the exposition both of Aquinas Cardinall Cajetan and their Bishope Catharinus with their late Estius The last place which he bringes is Isai 2. 2. where it is said That in the last days the mountain of the Lords house shall be established in the top of the mountains and exalted above the hills and all nations shall flow unto it To which I answere that this is a Prophecie onlie of the calling of the gentiles to the faith of the gospell by the Ministrie of the Apostles and showeth how firmlie the Christian Church should be built and bee of greater eminencie and amplitude beyond the jewish church in respect also of universalitie clearer light and dispensation of grace which is the exposition of their owne Lyra Procopius Pintus and Perusin on this place And not that they prove ther by a constant and conspicuous visibilitie of the Church to all As for the testimonies of Fathers which he adduceth they nowise prove the point the first whereof is Origens saying That the Church is full of light which showeth only that as shee is described Revel 12. 1. shee is glorious by the light of the trueth which shee holdeth forth in profession and therefore he subjoyneth this reason seing shee is the pillar and ground of truth sayeth hee 2 Hee bringeth a testimonie of Chrisostome where it is said That it is easier for the sunne to be extinguished then for the Church to be darkned which testimonie receiveth the same answer with the former For no more can the Church lose the light of the trueth than the sunne can lose his light though somtimes he may be eclipsed or by a thick mist or cloudie day he may be unseene to some 3. Hee bringeth a testimonie out of Augustin who sayeth That hee is blind that seeth not so great a mountain To which I answere that hee speaketh not there of a constant and conspicuous visibilitie of the true Church to all and at all times but onelie of the visible condition of the Church which was at that time disputing against the Donatists who affirmed that the Church was no where but amongst them in Africa whereas on the contrarie hee sayeth that in Europe and elswhere they may see famous and flowrishing Christian Churches like to a mountaine that may bee seene except they were blind and yet wee knowe that a mountaine that may be seen to all that are not blind in a cleare day may in a dark night time or darke mistie day be unseene till the sunne rise or a clearing of the mist be Therefore sayeth the same Augustin de unitate Ecclesiae cap. 20. in psal 10. and epist 80 ad Hesychium Some times the Church is not apparent when wicked persecutors rage against her againe in his sixth book of baptisme against the Donatists cap. 4. Somtimes like the Moone sayeth he shee may bee so hid and obscured that as in Elias time the members therof shall not know one of another 9 THat the Church was not ever to remaine Catholick or universall And that the Church of Rome is not such a Church THe first part of which Assertion wee disclaime as a most unjust aspersion as the harmony of confessions showeth and ours in particulare 1581. art 17. And as to the last That the Church of Rome is not universall we justlie affirme seing it is a plaine repugnancie in the adject as we say to be particulare or Roman to be Catholick or universall as their owne Cassander contradistinguisheth betweene these two in his consultation art 22. As for the places which he adduceth out of the psal 2. 8. and Colos 1. 3. 4. they no wise make for him or against us but onlie speaketh of the Churchs inlargemēt under the Gospell the first by the conversion of the Gentiles to the faith and the second of the Colossians in particular Next hee bringeth Rom. 1. 8 where the Apostle thanketh the Lord for them That their faith was spoken of through the whole World For answere whereunto 1. This no more proveth the Church of Rome to bee universall than the like words of Paull 1. Thess 1. 8 proveth the Church of Thessalonica to be the universall Church For as Rom. 1. 8. it is said That their faith was spoken of through the whol world so is it said 1. Thess 1. 8. That from them sounded out the word of the Lord as also in everie place