Selected quad for the lemma: ground_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
ground_n	call_v	church_n	truth_n	3,635	5	6.4889	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A13299	A Christian reprofe against contention Wherin is declared and manifested a just defence of the Church against such slanderes and reproches which Sabine Staresmore hath layd vpon vs in his two bookes, the first being 16 questions, called a louing tender. The second is his preface and postscript befor and behind Mr. Answorths last sermon, and making a pretence by that to sett it out as a loue token, hee breetheth out his malice against vs: and lastly her is an answer to a letter written by Mr. Robinson, and sent to vs with the consent of his Church, which now Mr. Staresmore hath published to the world. To these things an answer is giuen by A.T.	A. T., fl. 1631.; Thatcher, Anthony, attributed name.	1631 (1631)	STC 23605; ESTC S103240	40,101	48

being but a weeke betweene that none of the Church could minde that the sentence vvas altered but hee them fevv vvith him for hee knovvs their is freedom of exception to ●…ll but one thing more is to be obserued concerning the difference betvveene the dealing of this men and those brethren vvhom hee accuseth in that meeting for vvhen his matter vvas in the publique hee refused to debat the matter but vvould haue it tourned to priuate but those brethren whom hee accuseth did not only lay dovvn vvhat they did in that their meeting but offered themselfes to the triall of all that if any could shevv it to be otherwayes they should do it and not only once but divers times vvas this in question and allwayes they offering themselfes to triall And vvhereas hee speaketh of a thing yet worse for either the elder alone or these priuy counsellers vvith him stod not to this secōd agreement the Church made but vvrote another with alteration addition and diminishing besides the Churches knowledge and consent and sent it for the churchs minde and act Answer first vvher hee speaketh of the second agreement I knovv but one agreement tvvise spoken of and the occasion is manifested before tvvo if the alteration which hee speaketh of had bin by him sett dovvne then it may be it would appeare to be but that vvhich hee had commission from the Church to doe as he himselfe granteth in some thing but vvheras hee speaketh of adding and diminishing these things are yet to proue for I knovv not of any such thing neither any man that I knovv of did see the letter or gaue any counsell concerning it after it cam from the publique but the elder himselfe But vvheras hee saith that they were cast out vpon a very suspicion that a fevv of them met to writ to contradict the Churches action Answer I can not but marueil at him that hee should thus ran into this vntruth to say that it vvas but suspicion did not hee himselfe confesse yea of himselfe manifest both to the elder and also to others before it came to the Church besides some that heard the letter reade and I hope hee dares not deny But that hee did grante in the publique in the generall that his letter was the apposing of the letter of the Church although hee would not in the particulars debat the matters And after hee vvas cast out hee sayd vvhat did hee but take avvay the erronist grounds vvhich Mr. Delaycluce vvrit in the letter and therfore he thinking his errour is a trueth it may be hee thinketh so to deceiue the reader so likevvise hee calleth the laying dovvne of the matter in the Church the false information of the elder and that tvvo of them vvere singled out and selected from the rest First I ansvver vvhat doth hee call the false information of the elder I hope hee knoweth that both himselfe to other vvith him did manifeste to the elder themselses that they had vvritten in opposition to the Church and so consequently contrary to that trueth vvhich the Church maintained in the letter vvas it not this that the elder informed the Church of hee also saith that tvvo vvere singled out from the rest in vvhich hee vvould giue the reader to vnderstand as if all that those tvvo had got to their meeting vvere at the first knowne vvheras in deed it vvas othervvayes for although it was knovvne that they had a meeting to that porpose yet euery particular person vvas not then knowne but those tvvo opposites made knowne themselses to the elder of the Church pretending to him as if they vvould submit it to correction the elder refused to meddle vvith it himselfe but told them that it parteined to the Church they consented to haue it come to the church but vvhen it vvas propounded and laid downe their then they refused to answer or to debat the matter nor yet to deliuer vp the letter and the reason that they pretended vvas because the elder in the laying dovvne of the matter sayd that that vvhich they had done vvas a thing of an euill nott and vvas this a sufficient reason to refuse to debat the matter vvhat i●… the elder had done like Moses Numb 32. ●…4 or like the messenger of the Church Iosua 22. 18. or like Ely 1. Sam. 1. 14. all these vvere directly charged vvith heauy charges and they vvere cleare yet did they Christi●…lik debat their matters cleared themselues but these opposites ●…ere but touched presently they kiked and so fullfilled the common prouerb that agalled horse backe is soon harte but they ought rather to haue approued themselse or to haue submitted themselues to the meanes to come out of their sinne as Dauid saith Psalm 141. 5. Let the righteous smite mee it shall be a kindnes and let him reproue mee it shall be an excellent oyle which shall not breake my head Wher was their pretended committing it to correction when vpon so little occasion they refused triall in the ●…ght place where it should be tried And for that speech which hee saith the informer speake that it might be holy just good for ought hee knew this was a speech spoken to prouoque him to ansvver ●…hilles they were a reasoning together And the best of vs may escape words some times in reasoning that will not stand yet is not this man the clearer for all that But wher hee saith that the matter was follovved by interrogatories to finde out sinne Answer sinne was found when his vnrestynes in his errour was found and this being novv manifested and layd dovvn to the Church wee needed not make much cerching to find the sinne but rather to vse the best meanes wee could to draw them out of their sinne which then did appeare and hovv could this be done but their must be questiōs or demandes or as hee termeth them interrogatories and a little after hee calleth them intraping demandes but hee must not shifte the thing so for did not hee alltogether refuse to debat the matter in the publique saying they were not according to the rull Matth. 18. dealt with all therfore they refused to debat the matter in the publique and hee knoweth vvell that when any is asked a question that is not meet or reasonable they may and doe refuse to ansvver and so might hee have done if hee could haue shevved vnlawfull questions but in that hee did refuse alltogether to answer or to debat the matter therin was their sinne of opposing of gouernment and hovv contrary vvere they in this to the seruants of God of old Numb 32. 14. 15. 16. Iosua 22. 21. Who although they were charged with heauy charges and had not sinned yet they ansvvered and cleared themselues But these although they had sinned yet they refused to debat or to ansvver and neglected the meanes to come out of their sinne and for his saying it vvas contrary to Matth. 18. I refer the reader to the

yet for all this did this man continue in his vntrue speaking a long time after this saying that they vvere the most part separated and vvhen hee vvas asked vvhy hee did not then excepte against Mr. Iacobe vvhen hee appealled to him for vvitnesse and being observed that your silence vvas a consent as in such causes it is offtentimes to the vvhich hee ansvvered that it did not follovv that because hee ansvvered not that therfore it vvas so and yet behold besides M. Iacobes testimony vvee sence haue other vvitnesse of 〈◊〉 men vvhich vvas at the Couenant making that none of them 〈◊〉 separated and this is vnder ther ovvne hands ratified and in one o●… their testimonies vvhich vvas don by their eldere hee is blamed 〈◊〉 as follovveth vvhosoeuer shall say that they vvere separated may vvel take shame vnto themselues yea though it should bee M. S. himselfe and vnto this vvriting is the hands of Three more vvhich testifye that all of them vvent to hearing in the Church of England after the Couenant making to ther knovvledge and novv seing that these things are so in the vvhich this man hath gone beyond himselfe in the speciall ground from vvhence all these our troubles did arise hovv should hee feare himselfe even in his errour and to take heed hovv hee goeth one in his procedings least the Lord leaue him vnto hardnes of harte and to blindnes of eyes as a just recompence for striuen against the truth or to lay a snar in Mizpach to insnare the soules of men or to doe as Balaam did which taught Balac to put a stumbling blocke before the Children of Israell which this man hath done and doth in the maintaining of that Samaritanesh Couenant as through the helpe of the Lord I shall proue in due time And none to retourne to Mr. S. Preface againe hee calleth vs vnmercyfull spirits vvho vnder pretence of godly zeale and hatred against sinne vngodly massacre the true and living members of Christ body First I answer that if I should follow him in all his clamours and insinuations also his taking vp of mens weaknesse let fall in reasoning and dispute which hee vseth to hide his ovvne faultes and transgressions then I say vvee might haue vvorke enough to doe and increase vnprofitable writtings But let him knovv that all men of vvisdome vvill thinke it apo●…re shifte to helpe himselfe with mens sinnes or infirmityes to couer his ovvne sinnes so to auoide the maine matter in difference therfore fit it is seing hee would not rest in his errour in peace that novv hee should Both justifie his errour and his vnrestynes in his errour which vvas the cause of his casting out or else to fall vnder it and to retourne with repentance but seing hee hath vvritten vntru●… ths I shall make a briefe ansvver vnto them But first vvher hee saith vvee are furious vnmercifull vvith other reprochfull termes before named hee should haue stayed himselfe in these things vntill such time as hee had made good his cause in question for vvho is not just in ther ovvne cause in their conceite which be in contention as hee is and therfore the euill of his reproches and all the hinderances vnto the truth which hee speaketh of must lye vpon himselfe except hee could make his errour truth and his vnrestynes with seeking to se●… to be good and lavvful which I knovv is more then hee is abell to doe And for his quoting of Scriptures hovv largly and fitly might they all be applyed vpon himselfe as 1. Thess. 4. 1. might be applyed to him to show his busines before hee came to vs and vvhill hee vvas vvith vs and since hee vvas cast out being a raiser vp of contention so breaking those Scriptures Galat. ●… 15. and 1. Cor. 11. 16. also for Rom. 16. 17. Hovv euidently doth that Scripture reproue his factious action for the vvhich hee vvas cast out But I leaue the manifesting of it vnto his propre place And for the other whom hee saith are thrust out of the Church vvhich vvitnesse for them I hope all men of vnderstanding may consider that men that haue euill causes for the most part they lack not some partaker to assist them And for them vvere they not as forvvard as any to cast out these tvvo opposites yea more forvvard then many and I am suer more forward then my selfe and vvhat hath chāged theire mindes they say the meeting of the brethren aftervvards to be spoken of vvhich I may say is lese then affige leaue to couer there shame and therefore may it not bee well feared that respects haue stollen awaye ther affectiō seing theire reason of change is of so little vvaight and for this I can show reasons but at this time I spare because that some although justly touched yet vvould bee to much moued and although I could say more yet I stay here knovving that such things doth but tend to vaine ●…anglinge But this man hath administred the cause to speake this And wheras hee saith vvee reject the vvord of God all vvholsome counsell for our amendement countrary to the very letter of the 38. article and why did hee not shevv vvherin also was it not because hee might doubt of the truth of his affirmation and suer if it be layd vpon him for an vntruth I see 〈◊〉 hovv hee can shifte it for our article speaketh of the communion that all Churches haue for counsell and helpe in all needfull things in the common faith and this did wee practise in that our letter to the Church at London in the vvhich this man did so much oppose vs and hath made all this troubell and also vvee practise that article as wee haue just occasion But doth hee meane wee breake this article because wee doe not at his pleasure his will or the willes of such as h●… stoureth vp to bring other Churches to bee judges whether hee bee rightly cast out or not if all that are cast out should haue that righte as I know not why hee should haue more right then others then t●… Churchs should haue worke enough to doe to looke to others businesses to neglect their owne But wee must learne to put a differance betweene that which concearneth the common faith and the proper power that euery seuerall Church hath in it selfe as for example in Reu. 2. and 3. chap. euery particular Church hath theire commandation or reprofe as they deserved and as the Church of Pergamus was reproued for suffering of such as taught the Doctrine of Balaam so needed they not to aske another church whether they should restraine them that so taught or vvhether they should cast them out if they vvould not be restrained or vvhen they had cast out anie to call for other Churches to knovv vvhether they had done vvel or not in so doing especially to such Churches as vvere corrupted vvith the same errour and hear obserue that vvhen vvee did