4.11_o he_o have_v give_v pastor_n and_o doctor_n etc._n etc._n lest_o we_o shall_v be_v carry_v about_o with_o every_o wind_n of_o doctrine_n to_o any_o particular_a church_n of_o christian_n see_v it_o be_v a_o particular_a church_n which_o be_v call_v 3.15_o call_v 1_o tim._n 3.15_o the_o house_n of_o god_n a_o pillar_n and_o ground_n of_o truth_n and_o see_v of_o any_o particular_a church_n it_o be_v write_v 18.17_o write_v mat._n 18.17_o he_o that_o hear_v not_o the_o church_n let_v he_o be_v unto_o thou_o as_o a_o heathen_a or_o a_o publican_n we_o may_v refer_v it_o to_o any_o man_n that_o pray_v for_o god_n spirit_n for_o it_o be_v write_v 7.8_o write_v mat._n 7.8_o every_o one_o that_o ask_v receive_v and_o again_o 1.5_o again_o jam._n 1.5_o if_o any_o man_n want_v wisdom_n let_v he_o ask_v of_o god_n who_o give_v to_o all_o man_n liberal_o and_o upbraid_v not_o last_o we_o may_v refer_v it_o to_o the_o jew_n for_o without_o all_o doubt_n of_o they_o it_o be_v write_v 59.21_o write_v isai_n 59.21_o my_o spirit_n that_o be_v in_o thou_o etc._n etc._n all_o these_o mean_n of_o agreement_n whereof_o not_o any_o one_o but_o have_v as_o much_o probability_n from_o scripture_n 18.20_o scripture_n mat._n 18.20_o as_o that_o which_o you_o obtrude_v upon_o we_o offer_v themselves_o upon_o a_o sudden_a to_o i_o happy_o many_o more_o may_v be_v think_v on_o if_o we_o have_v time_n but_o these_o be_v enough_o to_o show_v that_o will_v we_o make_v use_n of_o voluntary_a and_o devise_v mean_n to_o determine_v difference_n we_o have_v they_o in_o great_a abundance_n and_o if_o you_o say_v these_o will_v fail_v we_o and_o contradict_v themselves_o so_o as_o we_o pretend_v have_v you_o there_o have_v be_v pope_n against_o pope_n council_n against_o council_n council_n confirm_v by_o pope_n against_o council_n confirm_v by_o pope_n last_o the_o church_n of_o some_o age_n against_o the_o church_n of_o other_o age_n 9_o last_o whereas_o you_o find_v fault_n that_o protestant_n upbraid_v with_o their_o discord_n answer_v that_o they_o differ_v only_o in_o point_n not_o fundamental_a i_o desire_v you_o tell_v i_o whether_o they_o do_v so_o or_o do_v not_o so_o if_o they_o do_v so_o i_o hope_v you_o will_v not_o find_v fault_n with_o the_o answer_n if_o you_o say_v they_o do_v not_o so_o but_o in_o point_n fundamental_a also_o then_o they_o be_v not_o member_n of_o the_o same_o church_n one_o with_o another_o no_o more_o than_o with_o you_o and_o therefore_o why_o shall_v you_o object_v to_o any_o of_o they_o their_o difference_n from_o each_o other_o any_o more_o than_o to_o yourselves_o their_o more_a and_o great_a difference_n from_o you_o 10._o but_o they_o be_v convince_v sometime_o even_o by_o their_o own_o confession_n that_o the_o ancient_a father_n teach_v divers_a point_n of_o popery_n and_o then_o they_o reply_v those_o father_n may_v nevertheless_o be_v save_v because_o those_o error_n be_v not_o fundamental_a and_o may_v not_o you_o also_o be_v convince_v by_o the_o confession_n of_o your_o own_o man_n that_o the_o father_n teach_v divers_a point_n hold_v by_o protestant_n against_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o divers_a against_o protestant_n and_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n do_v not_o your_o purge_v index_n clip_v the_o tongue_n and_o seal_v up_o the_o lip_n of_o a_o great_a many_o for_o such_o confession_n and_o be_v not_o the_o above_o cite_v confession_n of_o your_o douai_n divine_v plain_a and_o full_a to_o the_o same_o purpose_n and_o do_v not_o you_o also_o as_o free_o as_o we_o charge_v the_o father_n with_o error_n and_o yet_o say_v they_o be_v save_v now_o what_o else_o do_v we_o understand_v by_o a_o unfundamental_a error_n but_o such_o a_o one_o with_o which_o a_o man_n may_v possible_o be_v save_v so_o that_o still_o you_o proceed_v in_o condemn_v other_o for_o your_o own_o fault_n and_o urge_v argument_n against_o we_o which_o return_v more_o strong_o upon_o yourselves_o 11._o but_o your_o will_n be_v we_o shall_v remember_v that_o christ_n must_v always_o have_v a_o visible_a church_n answ_n your_o pleasure_n shall_v be_v obey_v on_o condition_n you_o will_v not_o forget_v that_o there_o be_v a_o difference_n between_o perpetual_a visibility_n and_o perpetual_a purity_n as_o for_o the_o answer_n which_o you_o make_v for_o we_o true_a it_o be_v we_o believe_v the_o catholic_n church_n can_v perish_v yet_o that_o she_o may_v and_o do_v err_v in_o point_n not_o fundamental_a and_o that_o protestant_n be_v oblige_v to_o forsake_v these_o error_n of_o the_o church_n as_o they_o do_v though_o not_o the_o church_n for_o her_o error_n for_o that_o they_o do_v not_o but_o continue_v still_o member_n of_o the_o church_n for_o it_o be_v not_o all_o one_o though_o you_o perpetual_o confound_v they_o to_o forsake_v the_o error_n of_o the_o church_n and_o to_o forsake_v the_o church_n or_o to_o forsake_v the_o church_n in_o her_o error_n and_o simple_o to_o forsake_v the_o church_n no_o more_o than_o it_o be_v for_o i_o to_o renounce_v my_o brother_n or_o my_o friend_n vice_n or_o error_n and_o to_o renounce_v my_o brother_n or_o my_o friend_n the_o former_a then_o be_v do_v by_o protestant_n the_o latter_a be_v not_o do_v nay_o not_o only_o not_o from_o the_o catholic_n but_o not_o so_o much_o as_o from_o the_o roman_a do_v they_o separate_v per_fw-la omne_fw-la but_o only_o in_o those_o practice_n which_o they_o conceive_v superstitious_a or_o impious_a if_o you_o will_v at_o this_o time_n propose_v a_o form_n of_o liturgy_n which_o both_o side_n hold_v lawful_a and_o then_o they_o will_v not_o join_v with_o you_o in_o this_o liturgy_n you_o may_v have_v some_o colour_n then_o to_o say_v they_o renounce_v your_o communion_n absolute_o but_o as_o thing_n be_v now_o order_v they_o can_v join_v with_o you_o in_o prayer_n but_o they_o must_v partake_v with_o you_o in_o unlawful_a practice_n and_o for_o this_o reason_n they_o not_o absolute_o but_o thus_o far_o separate_v from_o your_o communion_n and_o this_o i_o say_v they_o be_v oblige_v to_o do_v under_o pain_n of_o damnation_n not_o as_o if_o it_o be_v damnable_a to_o hold_v a_o error_n not_o damnable_a but_o because_o it_o be_v damnable_a outward_o to_o profess_v and_o maintain_v it_o and_o to_o join_v with_o other_o in_o the_o practice_n of_o it_o when_o inward_o they_o do_v not_o hold_v it_o now_o have_v they_o continue_v in_o your_o communion_n that_o they_o must_v have_v do_v vid._n have_v profess_v to_o believe_v and_o external_o practise_v your_o error_n whereof_o they_o be_v convince_v that_o they_o be_v error_n which_o though_o the_o matter_n of_o the_o error_n have_v be_v not_o necessary_a but_o only_o profitable_a whether_o it_o have_v not_o be_v damnable_a dissimulation_n and_o hypocrisy_n i_o leave_v it_o to_o you_o to_o judge_n you_o yourself_o tell_v we_o within_o two_o page_n after_o this_o that_o you_o be_v oblige_v never_o to_o speak_v any_o one_o lest_o lie_v against_o your_o knowledge_n §_o 2._o now_o what_o be_v this_o but_o to_o live_v in_o a_o perpetual_a lie_n 12._o as_o for_o that_o which_o in_o the_o next_o place_n you_o seem_v so_o to_o wonder_v at_o that_o both_o catholic_n and_o protestant_n according_a to_o the_o opinion_n of_o protestant_n may_v be_v save_v in_o their_o several_a profession_n because_o forsooth_o we_o both_o agree_v in_o all_o fundamental_a point_n i_o answer_v this_o proposition_n so_o crude_o set_v down_o as_o you_o have_v here_o set_v it_o down_o i_o know_v no_o protestant_n will_v justify_v for_o you_o seem_v to_o make_v they_o teach_v that_o it_o be_v a_o indifferent_a thing_n for_o the_o attainment_n of_o salvation_n whether_o a_o man_n believe_v the_o truth_n or_o the_o falsehood_n and_o that_o they_o care_v not_o in_o whether_o of_o these_o religion_n a_o man_n live_v or_o die_v so_o he_o die_v in_o either_o of_o they_o whereas_o all_o that_o they_o say_v be_v this_o that_o those_o among_o you_o which_o want_n mean_v to_o find_v the_o truth_n and_o so_o die_v in_o error_n or_o use_v the_o best_a mean_n they_o can_v with_o industry_n and_o without_o partiality_n to_o find_v the_o truth_n and_o yet_o die_v in_o error_n these_o man_n thus_o qualify_v notwithstanding_o these_o error_n may_v be_v save_v second_o for_o those_o that_o have_v mean_n to_o find_v the_o truth_n and_o will_v not_o use_v they_o they_o conceive_v though_o their_o case_n be_v dangerous_a yet_o if_o they_o die_v with_o a_o general_a repentance_n for_o all_o their_o sin_n know_v and_o unknown_a their_o salvation_n be_v not_o desperate_a the_o truth_n which_o they_o hold_v of_o faith_n in_o christ_n and_o repentance_n be_v as_o it_o be_v a_o antidote_n against_o their_o error_n and_o their_o negligence_n in_o seek_v the_o truth_n especial_o see_v by_o confession_n of_o
savour_n wherewith_o shall_v it_o be_v salt_v it_o be_v thenceforth_o good_a for_o nothing_o but_o to_o be_v cast_v forth_o and_o to_o be_v tread_v under_o foot_n so_o the_o church_n may_v be_v by_o duty_n the_o pillar_n and_o ground_n that_o be_v the_o teacher_n of_o truth_n of_o all_o truth_n not_o only_o necessary_a but_o profitable_a to_o salvation_n and_o yet_o she_o may_v neglect_v and_o violate_v this_o duty_n and_o be_v in_o fact_n the_o teacher_n of_o some_o error_n 78._o four_o and_o last_o if_o we_o deal_v most_o liberal_o with_o you_o and_o grant_v that_o the_o apostle_n here_o speak_v of_o the_o catholic_n church_n call_v it_o the_o pillar_n and_o ground_n of_o truth_n and_o that_o not_o only_o because_o it_o shall_v but_o because_o it_o always_o shall_v and_o will_v be_v so_o yet_o after_o all_o this_o you_o have_v do_v nothing_o your_o bridge_n be_v too_o short_a to_o bring_v you_o to_o the_o bank_n where_o you_o will_v be_v unless_o you_o can_v show_v that_o by_o truth_n here_o be_v certain_o mean_v not_o only_o all_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n but_o all_o that_o be_v profitable_a absolute_o and_o simple_o all._n for_o that_o the_o true_a church_n always_o shall_v be_v the_o maintainer_n and_o teacher_n of_o all_o necessary_a truth_n you_o know_v we_o grant_v and_o must_v grant_v for_o it_o be_v of_o the_o essence_n of_o the_o church_n to_o be_v so_o and_o any_o company_n of_o man_n be_v no_o more_o a_o church_n without_o it_o than_o any_o thing_n can_v be_v a_o man_n and_o not_o be_v reasonable_a but_o as_o a_o man_n may_v be_v still_o a_o man_n though_o he_o want_v a_o hand_n or_o a_o eye_n which_o yet_o be_v profitable_a part_n so_o the_o church_n may_v be_v still_o a_o church_n though_o it_o be_v defective_a in_o some_o profitable_a truth_n and_o as_o a_o man_n may_v be_v a_o man_n that_o have_v some_o boil_n and_o botch_n on_o his_o body_n so_o the_o church_n may_v be_v the_o church_n though_o it_o have_v many_o corruption_n both_o in_o doctrine_n and_o practice_n 79._o and_o thus_o you_o see_v we_o be_v at_o liberty_n from_o the_o former_a place_n have_v show_v that_o the_o sense_n of_o they_o either_o must_v or_o may_v be_v such_o as_o will_v do_v your_o cause_n no_o service_n but_o the_o last_o you_o suppose_v will_v be_v a_o gordian_a knot_n and_o tie_v we_o fast_o enough_o the_o word_n be_v eph._n 4.11_o 12_o 13._o he_o give_v some_o apostle_n and_o some_o prophet_n etc._n etc._n to_o the_o consummation_n of_o saint_n to_o the_o work_n of_o the_o ministry_n etc._n etc._n until_o we_o all_o meet_v into_o the_o unity_n of_o faith_n etc._n etc._n that_o we_o be_v not_o hereafter_o child_n waver_v and_o carry_v up_o and_o down_o with_o every_o wind_n of_o doctrine_n out_o of_o which_o word_n this_o be_v the_o only_a argument_n which_o you_o collect_v or_o i_o can_v collect_v for_o you_o there_o be_v no_o mean_n to_o conserve_v unity_n of_o faith_n against_o every_o wind_n of_o doctrine_n unless_o it_o be_v a_o church_n universal_o infallible_a but_o it_o be_v impious_a to_o say_v there_o be_v no_o mean_n to_o conserve_v unity_n of_o faith_n against_o every_o wind_n of_o doctrine_n therefore_o there_o must_v be_v a_o church_n universal_o infallible_a whereunto_o i_o answer_v that_o your_o major_n be_v so_o far_o from_o be_v confirm_v that_o it_o be_v plain_o confute_v by_o the_o place_n allege_v for_o that_o tell_v we_o of_o another_o mean_n for_o this_o purpose_n to_o wit_n the_o apostle_n and_o prophet_n and_o evangelist_n and_o pastor_n and_o doctor_n which_o christ_n give_v upon_o his_o ascension_n and_o that_o their_o consummate_v the_o saint_n do_v the_o work_n of_o the_o ministry_n and_o edify_v the_o body_n of_o christ_n be_v the_o mean_n to_o bring_v those_o which_o be_v there_o speak_v of_o be_v they_o who_o they_o will_v to_o the_o unity_n of_o faith_n and_o to_o perfection_n in_o christ_n that_o they_o may_v not_o be_v waver_v and_o carry_v about_o with_o every_o wind_n of_o false_a doctrine_n now_o the_o apostle_n and_o prophet_n and_o evangelist_n and_o pastor_n and_o doctor_n be_v not_o the_o present_a church_n therefore_o the_o church_n be_v not_o the_o only_a mean_n for_o this_o end_n nor_o that_o which_o be_v here_o speak_v of_o 80._o peradventure_o by_o he_o give_v you_o conceive_v be_v to_o be_v understand_v he_o promise_v that_o he_o will_v give_v unto_o the_o world_n end_n but_o what_o reason_n have_v you_o for_o this_o conceit_n can_v you_o show_v that_o the_o word_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d have_v this_o signification_n in_o other_o place_n and_o that_o it_o must_v have_v it_o in_o this_o place_n or_o will_v not_o this_o interpretation_n drive_v you_o present_o to_o this_o blasphemous_a absurdity_n that_o god_n have_v not_o perform_v his_o promise_n unless_o you_o will_v say_v which_o for_o shame_n i_o think_v you_o will_v not_o that_o you_o have_v now_o and_o in_o all_o age_n since_o christ_n have_v have_v apostle_n and_o prophet_n and_o evangelist_n for_o as_o for_o pastor_n and_o doctor_n alone_o they_o will_v not_o serve_v the_o turn_n for_o if_o god_n promise_v to_o give_v all_o these_o than_o you_o must_v say_v he_o have_v give_v all_o or_o else_o that_o he_o have_v break_v his_o promise_n neither_o may_v you_o pretend_v that_o the_o pastor_n and_o doctor_n be_v the_o same_o with_o the_o apostle_n and_o prophet_n and_o evangelist_n and_o therefore_o have_v pastor_n and_o doctor_n you_o have_v all_o for_o it_o be_v apparent_a that_o by_o these_o name_n be_v denote_v several_a order_n of_o man_n clear_o distinguish_v and_o diversify_v by_o the_o original_a text_n but_o much_o more_o plain_o by_o your_o own_o translation_n for_o so_o you_o read_v it_o some_o apostle_n and_o some_o prophet_n and_o other_o some_o evangelist_n and_o other_o some_o pastor_n and_o doctor_n and_o yet_o more_o plain_o in_o the_o parallel_n place_n 1_o cor._n 12._o to_o which_o we_o be_v refer_v by_o your_o vulgar_a translation_n god_n have_v set_v some_o in_o the_o church_n first_o apostle_n secondary_o prophet_n three_o teachers_n therefore_o this_o subterfuge_n be_v stop_v against_o you_o obj._n but_o how_o can_v they_o which_o die_v in_o the_o first_o age_n keep_v we_o in_o unity_n and_o guard_v we_o from_o error_n that_o live_v now_o perhaps_o in_o the_o last_o this_o seem_v to_o be_v all_o one_o as_o if_o a_o man_n shall_v say_v that_o alexander_n or_o julius_n caesar_n shall_v quiet_v a_o mutiny_n in_o the_o king_n of_o spain_n army_n ans_fw-fr i_o hope_v you_o will_v grant_v that_o hypocrates_n and_o galen_n and_o euclid_n and_o aristotle_n and_o sallust_n and_o caesar_n and_o livy_n be_v dead_a many_o age_n since_o and_o yet_o that_o we_o be_v now_o preserve_v from_o error_n by_o they_o in_o a_o great_a part_n of_o physic_n of_o geometry_n of_o logic_n of_o the_o roman_a story_n but_o what_o if_o these_o man_n have_v write_v by_o divine_a inspiration_n and_o write_v complete_a body_n of_o the_o science_n they_o profess_v and_o write_v they_o plain_o and_o perspicuous_o you_o will_v then_o have_v grant_v i_o believe_v that_o their_o work_n have_v be_v sufficient_a to_o keep_v we_o from_o error_n and_o from_o dissension_n in_o these_o matter_n and_o why_o then_o shall_v it_o be_v incongruous_a to_o say_v that_o the_o apostle_n and_o prophet_n and_o evangelist_n and_o pastor_n and_o doctor_n which_o christ_n give_v upon_o his_o ascension_n by_o their_o writing_n which_o some_o of_o they_o write_v but_o all_o approve_a be_v even_o now_o sufficient_a mean_n to_o conserve_v we_o in_o unity_n of_o faith_n and_o guard_v we_o from_o error_n especial_o see_v these_o writing_n be_v by_o the_o confession_n of_o all_o part_n true_a and_o divine_a and_o as_o we_o pretend_v and_o be_v ready_a to_o prove_v contain_v a_o plain_a and_o perfect_a rule_n of_o faith_n and_o as_o the_o perron_n the_o perron_n chief_a of_o you_o acknowledge_v contain_v immediate_o all_o the_o principal_a and_o fundamental_a point_n of_o christianity_n refer_v we_o to_o the_o church_n and_o tradition_n only_o for_o some_o minute_n particularity_n but_o tell_v i_o i_o pray_v the_o bishop_n that_o compose_v the_o decree_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n and_o the_o pope_n that_o confirm_v they_o be_v they_o mean_v to_o conserve_v you_o in_o unity_n and_o keep_v you_o from_o error_n or_o be_v they_o not_o peradventure_o you_o will_v say_v their_o decree_n be_v but_o not_o their_o person_n but_o you_o will_v not_o deny_v i_o hope_v that_o you_o owe_v your_o unity_n and_o freedom_n from_o error_n to_o the_o person_n that_o make_v these_o decree_n neither_o will_v you_o deny_v that_o the_o writing_n which_o they_o have_v leave_v behind_o they_o be_v sufficient_a for_o this_o purpose_n and_o why_o may_v not_o then_o the_o apostle_n
station_n unto_o the_o very_a end_n of_o their_o life_n which_o be_v man_n for_o ever_o neither_o be_v this_o use_n of_o the_o word_n for_o ever_o any_o thing_n strange_a either_o in_o our_o ordinary_a speech_n wherein_o we_o use_v to_o say_v this_o be_v i_o for_o ever_o this_o shall_v be_v you_o for_o ever_o without_o ever_o dream_v of_o the_o eternity_n either_o of_o the_o thing_n or_o person_n and_o then_o in_o scripture_n it_o not_o only_o will_v bear_v but_o require_v this_o sense_n very_o frequent_o as_o exod._n 21.6_o deut._n 15.17_o his_o master_n shall_v bore_v his_o ear_n through_o with_o a_o awl_n and_o he_o shall_v serve_v he_o for_o ever_o psal_n 52.9_o i_o will_v praise_v thou_o for_o ever_o psal_n 61.4_o i_o will_v abide_v in_o thy_o tahernacle_n for_o ever_o psal_n 119.111_o thy_o testimony_n have_v i_o take_v as_o my_o heritage_n for_o ever_o and_o last_o in_o the_o epistle_n to_o philemon_n he_o therefore_o depart_v from_o thou_o for_o a_o time_n that_o thou_o shall_v receive_v he_o for_o ever_o 75._o and_o thus_o i_o presume_v i_o have_v show_v sufficient_o that_o this_o for_o ever_o hinder_v not_o but_o that_o the_o promise_n may_v be_v appropriate_v to_o the_o apostle_n as_o by_o many_o other_o circumstance_n i_o have_v evince_v it_o must_v be_v but_o what_o now_o if_o the_o place_n produce_v by_o you_o as_o a_o main_a pillar_n of_o your_o church_n infallibility_n prove_v upon_o trial_n a_o engine_n to_o batter_v and_o overthrow_v it_o at_o least_o which_o be_v all_o one_o to_o my_o purpose_n to_o take_v away_o all_o possibility_n of_o our_o assurance_n of_o it_o this_o will_v seem_v strange_a news_n to_o you_o at_o first_o hear_v and_o not_o far_o from_o a_o prodigy_n and_o i_o confess_v as_o you_o here_o in_o this_o place_n and_o general_o all_o your_o writer_n of_o controversy_n by_o who_o this_o text_n be_v urge_v order_n the_o matter_n it_o be_v very_o much_o disable_v to_o do_v any_o service_n against_o you_o in_o this_o question_n for_o with_o a_o bold_a sacrilege_n and_o horrible_a impiety_n somewhat_o like_o procrustes_n his_o cruelty_n you_o perpetual_o cut_v off_o the_o head_n and_o foot_n the_o beginning_n and_o end_n of_o it_o and_o present_v to_o your_o confident_n who_o usual_o read_v no_o more_o of_o the_o bible_n than_o be_v allege_v by_o you_o only_o these_o word_n i_o will_v ask_v my_o father_n and_o he_o shall_v give_v you_o another_o paraclete_n that_o he_o may_v abide_v with_o you_o for_o ever_o even_o the_o spirit_n of_o truth_n conceal_v in_o the_o mean_a time_n the_o word_n before_o and_o the_o word_n after_o that_o so_o the_o promise_n of_o god_n spirit_n may_v seem_v to_o be_v absolute_a whereas_o it_o be_v indeed_o most_o clear_o and_o express_o conditional_a be_v both_o in_o the_o word_n before_o restrain_v to_o those_o only_a that_o love_n god_n and_o keep_v his_o commandment_n and_o in_o the_o word_n after_o flat_o deny_v to_o all_o who_o the_o scripture_n style_v by_o the_o name_n of_o the_o world_n that_o be_v as_o the_o very_a antithesis_fw-la give_v we_o plain_o to_o understand_v to_o all_o wicked_a and_o worldly_a man_n behold_v the_o place_n entire_a as_o it_o be_v set_v down_o in_o your_o own_o bible_n if_o you_o love_v i_o keep_v my_o commandment_n and_o i_o will_v ask_v my_o father_n and_o he_o shall_v give_v you_o another_o paraclete_n that_o he_o may_v abide_v with_o you_o for_o ever_o even_o the_o spirit_n of_o the_o truth_n who_o the._n world_n can_v receive_v now_o from_o the_o place_n there_o restore_v and_o vindicate_v from_o your_o mutilation_n thus_o i_o argue_v against_o your_o pretence_n we_o can_v have_v no_o certainty_n of_o the_o infallibility_n of_o your_o church_n but_o upon_o this_o suposition_n that_o your_o pope_n be_v infallible_a in_o confirm_v the_o decree_n of_o general_a council_n we_o can_v have_v no_o certainty_n hereof_o but_o upon_o this_o supposition_n that_o the_o spirit_n of_o truth_n be_v promise_v to_o he_o for_o his_o direction_n in_o this_o work_n and_o of_o this_o again_o we_o can_v have_v no_o certainty_n but_o upon_o supposal_n that_o he_o perform_v the_o condition_n whereunto_o the_o promise_n of_o the_o spirit_n of_o truth_n be_v express_o limit_v viz._n that_o he_o love_v god_n and_o keep_v his_o commandment_n and_o of_o this_o final_o not_o know_v the_o pope_n heart_n we_o can_v have_v no_o certainty_n at_o all_o therefore_o from_o the_o first_o to_o the_o last_o we_o can_v have_v no_o certainty_n at_o all_o of_o your_o church_n infallibibility_n this_o be_v my_o first_o argument_n from_o this_o place_n another_o follow_v which_o will_v charge_v you_o as_o home_o as_o the_o former_a if_o many_o of_o the_o roman_a see_v be_v such_o man_n as_o can_v not_o receive_v the_o spirit_n of_o truth_n even_o man_n of_o the_o world_n that_o be_v worldly_a wicked_a carnal_a diabolical_a man_n than_o the_o spirit_n of_o truth_n be_v not_o here_o promise_v but_o flat_o deny_v they_o and_o consequent_o we_o can_v have_v no_o certainty_n neither_o of_o the_o decree_n of_o council_n which_o these_o pope_n confirm_v nor_o of_o the_o church_n infallibility_n which_o be_v guide_v by_o these_o decree_n but_o many_o of_o the_o roman_a see_v even_o by_o the_o confession_n of_o the_o most_o zealous_a defender_n of_o it_o be_v such_o man_n therefore_o the_o spirit_n of_o truth_n be_v not_o here_o promise_v but_o deny_v they_o and_o consequent_o we_o can_v have_v no_o certainty_n neither_o of_o the_o decree_n which_o they_o confirm_v nor_o of_o the_o church_n infallibility_n which_o guide_v herself_o by_o these_o decree_n 76._o you_o may_v take_v as_o much_o time_n as_o you_o think_v fit_a to_o answer_v these_o argument_n in_o the_o mean_a while_o i_o proceed_v to_o the_o consideration_n of_o the_o next_o text_n allege_v for_o this_o purpose_n by_o you_o out_o of_o s._n paul_n 1_o epistle_n to_o timothy_n cap._n 3.15_o where_o he_o say_v as_o you_o say_v the_o church_n be_v the_o pillar_n and_o ground_n of_o truth_n but_o the_o truth_n be_v you_o be_v somewhat_o to_o bold_a with_o s._n paul_n for_o he_o say_v not_o in_o formal_a term_n what_o you_o make_v he_o say_v the_o church_n be_v the_o pillar_n and_o ground_n of_o truth_n neither_o be_v it_o certain_a that_o he_o mean_v so_o for_o it_o be_v neither_o impossible_a nor_o improbable_a that_o the_o word_n the_o pillar_n and_o gonnd_a of_o truth_n may_v have_v reference_n not_o to_o the_o church_n but_o to_o timothy_n the_o sense_n of_o the_o place_n that_o thou_o may_v know_v how_o to_o behave_v thyself_o as_o a_o pillar_n and_o ground_n of_o truth_n in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n which_o be_v the_o house_n of_o the_o live_a god_n which_o exposition_n offer_v no_o violence_n at_o all_o to_o the_o word_n but_o only_o suppose_v a_o ellipsis_n of_o the_o particle_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d in_o the_o greek_a very_o ordinary_a neither_o want_v it_o some_o likelihood_n that_o s._n paul_n compare_v the_o church_n to_o a_o house_n shall_v here_o exhort_v timothy_n to_o carry_v himself_o as_o a_o pillar_n in_o that_o house_n shall_v do_v according_a as_o he_o have_v give_v other_o principal_a man_n in_o the_o church_n the_o name_n of_o pillar_n rather_o than_o have_v call_v the_o church_n a_o house_n to_o call_v it_o present_o a_o pillar_n which_o may_v seem_v somewhat_o heterogeneous_a yet_o if_o you_o will_v needs_o have_v s._n paul_n refer_v this_o not_o to_o timothy_n but_o the_o church_n i_o will_v not_o contend_v about_o it_o any_o far_a than_o to_o say_v possible_o it_o may_v be_v otherwise_o but_o than_o second_o i_o be_o to_o put_v you_o in_o mind_n that_o the_o church_n which_o s._n paul_n here_o speak_v of_o be_v that_o in_o which_o timothy_n converse_v and_o that_o be_v a_o particular_a church_n and_o not_o the_o roman_a and_o such_o you_o will_v not_o have_v to_o be_v universal_o infallible_a 77._o three_o if_o we_o grant_v you_o out_o of_o courtesy_n for_o nothing_o can_v enforce_v we_o to_o it_o that_o he_o both_o speak_v of_o the_o universal_a church_n and_o say_v this_o of_o it_o than_o i_o be_o to_o remember_v you_o that_o many_o attribute_n in_o scripture_n be_v not_o note_n of_o performance_n but_o of_o duty_n and_o teach_v we_o not_o what_o the_o thing_n or_o person_n be_v of_o necessity_n but_o what_o it_o shall_v be_v you_o be_v the_o salt_n of_o the_o earth_n say_v our_o saviour_n to_o his_o disciple_n not_o that_o this_o quality_n be_v inseparable_a from_o their_o person_n but_o because_o it_o be_v their_o office_n to_o be_v so_o for_o if_o they_o must_v have_v be_v so_o of_o necessity_n and_o can_v not_o have_v be_v otherwise_o in_o vain_a have_v he_o put_v they_o in_o fear_n of_o that_o which_o follow_v if_o the_o salt_n have_v lose_v his_o
the_o only_a fountain_n of_o all_o these_o mischief_n be_v indeed_o no_o other_o than_o your_o pour_v out_o a_o flood_n of_o persecution_n against_o protestant_n only_o because_o they_o will_v not_o sin_v &_o be_v damn_v with_o you_o for_o company_n unless_o we_o may_v add_v the_o impatience_n of_o some_o protestant_n who_o not_o endure_v to_o be_v tear_v in_o piece_n like_o sheep_n by_o a_o company_n of_o wolf_n without_o resistance_n choose_v rather_o to_o die_v like_o soldier_n than_o martyr_n 96._o obj._n butthey_a endeavour_v to_o force_v the_o society_n whereof_o they_o be_v part_n to_o be_v heal_v and_o reform_v as_o they_o be_v and_o if_o it_o refuse_v they_o do_v when_o they_o have_v power_n drive_v they_o away_o even_o their_o superior_n both_o spiritual_a and_o temporal_a as_o be_v notorious_a the_o proof_n hereof_o be_v want_v and_o therefore_o i_o may_v defer_v my_o answer_n until_o they_o be_v produce_v yet_o take_v this_o beforehand_o if_o they_o do_v so_o then_o herein_o in_o my_o opinion_n they_o do_v amiss_o for_o i_o have_v learn_v from_o the_o ancient_a father_n of_o the_o church_n that_o nothing_o be_v more_o against_o religion_n than_o to_o force_v religion_n and_o of_o s._n paul_n the_o weapon_n of_o the_o christian_a warfare_n be_v not_o carnal_a and_o great_a reason_n for_o humane_a violence_n may_v make_v man_n counterfeit_v but_o can_v make_v they_o believe_v and_o be_v therefore_o fit_a for_o nothing_o but_o to_o breed_v form_n without_o and_o atheism_n within_o beside_o if_o this_o mean_n of_o bring_v man_n to_o embrace_v any_o religion_n be_v general_o use_v as_o if_o it_o may_v be_v just_o use_v in_o any_o place_n by_o those_o that_o have_v power_n and_o think_v they_o have_v truth_n certain_o they_o can_v with_o reason_n deny_v but_o that_o it_o may_v be_v use_v in_o every_o place_n by_o those_o that_o have_v poweâ—_n as_o well_o as_o they_o and_o think_v they_o have_v truth_n as_o well_o as_o they_o what_o can_v follow_v but_o the_o maintenance_n perhaps_o of_o truth_n but_o perhaps_o only_o of_o the_o profession_n of_o it_o in_o one_o place_n and_o the_o oppression_n of_o it_o in_o a_o hundred_o what_o will_v follow_v from_o it_o but_o the_o preservation_n peradventure_o of_o unity_n but_o peradventure_o only_o of_o uniformity_n in_o particular_a state_n and_o church_n but_o the_o immortallize_a the_o great_a and_o more_o lamentable_a division_n of_o christendom_n and_o the_o world_n and_o therefore_o what_o can_v follow_v from_o it_o but_o perhaps_o in_o the_o judgement_n of_o carnal_a policy_n the_o temporal_a benefit_n and_o tranquillity_n of_o temporal_a state_n and_o kingdom_n but_o the_o infinite_a prejudice_n if_o not_o the_o desolation_n of_o the_o kingdom_n of_o christ_n and_o therefore_o it_o well_o become_v they_o who_o have_v their_o portion_n in_o this_o life_n who_o serve_v no_o high_a state_n than_o that_o of_o england_n or_o spain_n or_o france_n nor_o this_o neither_o any_o further_a than_o they_o may_v serve_v themselves_o by_o it_o who_o think_v of_o no_o other_o happiness_n but_o the_o preservation_n of_o their_o own_o fortune_n and_o tranquillity_n in_o this_o world_n who_o think_v of_o no_o other_o mean_n to_o preserve_v state_n but_o humane_a power_n and_o machiavillian_a policy_n and_o believe_v no_o other_o creed_n but_o this_o regi_fw-la aut_fw-la civitati_fw-la imperium_fw-la habenti_fw-la nihil_fw-la injustum_fw-la quod_fw-la utile_fw-la that_o to_o a_o king_n or_o city_n that_o have_v rule_v power_n nothing_o that_o be_v profitable_a be_v unjust_a such_o man_n as_o these_o it_o may_v become_v to_o maintain_v by_o worldly_a power_n and_o violence_n their_o state-instrument_n religion_n for_o if_o all_o be_v vain_a and_o false_a as_o in_o their_o judgement_n it_o be_v the_o present_a whatsoever_o be_v better_a than_o any_o because_o it_o be_v already_o settle_a and_o alteration_n of_o it_o may_v draw_v with_o it_o change_v of_o state_n and_o the_o change_n of_o state_n the_o subversion_n of_o their_o fortune_n but_o they_o that_o be_v indeed_o servant_n and_o lover_n of_o christ_n of_o truth_n of_o the_o church_n and_o of_o mankind_n aught_o with_o all_o courage_n to_o oppose_v themselves_o against_o it_o as_o a_o common_a enemy_n of_o all_o these_o they_o that_o know_v there_o be_v a_o king_n of_o king_n and_o lord_n of_o lord_n by_o who_o will_n and_o pleasure_n king_n and_o kingdom_n stand_v and_o fall_v they_o know_v that_o to_o no_o king_n or_o state_n any_o thing_n can_v be_v profitable_a which_o be_v unjust_a and_o that_o nothing_o can_v be_v more_o evident_o unjust_a than_o to_o force_v weak_a man_n by_o the_o profession_n of_o a_o religion_n which_o they_o believe_v not_o to_o lose_v their_o own_o eternal_a happiness_n out_o of_o a_o vain_a and_o needless_a fear_n lest_o they_o may_v possible_o disturb_v their_o temporal_a quietness_n there_o be_v no_o danger_n to_o any_o state_n from_o any_o man_n opinion_n unless_o it_o be_v such_o a_o opinion_n by_o which_o disobedience_n to_o authority_n or_o impiety_n be_v teach_v or_o licence_v which_o sort_n i_o confess_v may_v just_o be_v punish_v as_o well_o as_o other_o fault_n or_o unless_o this_o sanguinary_a doctrine_n be_v join_v with_o it_o that_o it_o be_v lawful_a for_o he_o by_o humane_a violence_n to_o enforce_v other_o to_o it_o therefore_o if_o protestant_n do_v offer_v violence_n to_o other_o man_n conscience_n and_o compel_v they_o to_o embrace_v their_o reformation_n i_o excuse_v they_o not_o much_o less_o if_o they_o do_v so_o to_o the_o sacred_a person_n of_o king_n and_o those_o that_o be_v in_o authority_n over_o they_o who_o ought_v to_o be_v so_o secure_v from_o violence_n that_o even_o their_o unjust_a and_o tyrannous_a violence_n though_o it_o may_v be_v avoid_v according_a to_o that_o of_o our_o saviour_n when_o they_o persecute_v you_o in_o one_o city_n fly_v into_o another_o yet_o may_v it_o not_o be_v resist_v by_o oppose_a violence_n against_o it_o protestant_n therefore_o that_o be_v guilty_a of_o this_o crime_n be_v not_o to_o be_v excuse_v and_o bless_a have_v they_o be_v have_v they_o choose_v rather_o to_o be_v martyr_n than_o murderer_n and_o to_o die_v for_o their_o religion_n rather_o than_o to_o fight_v for_o it_o but_o of_o all_o the_o man_n in_o the_o world_n you_o be_v the_o most_o unfit_a to_o accuse_v they_o hereof_o against_o who_o the_o soul_n of_o martyr_n from_o under_o the_o altar_n cry_v much_o loud_a than_o against_o all_o their_o other_o persecutor_n together_o who_o for_o these_o many_o age_n together_o have_v daily_o sacrifice_v hecatomb_n of_o innocent_a christian_n under_o the_o name_n of_o heretic_n to_o your_o blind_a zeal_n and_o furious_a superstition_n who_o teach_v plain_o that_o you_o may_v propagate_v your_o religion_n whensoever_o you_o have_v power_n by_o depose_v of_o king_n and_o invasion_n of_o kingdom_n and_o think_v when_o you_o kill_v the_o adversary_n of_o it_o you_o do_v god_n good_a service_n but_o for_o their_o depart_n corporal_o from_o they_o who_o mental_o they_o have_v forsake_v for_o their_o forsake_v the_o external_a communion_n and_o company_n of_o that_o part_n of_o the_o unreformed_a part_n of_o the_o church_n in_o their_o superstition_n and_o impiety_n thus_o much_o of_o your_o accusation_n we_o embrace_v and_o glory_n in_o it_o and_o say_v though_o some_o protestant_n may_v offend_v in_o the_o manner_n or_o the_o degree_n of_o their_o separation_n yet_o certain_o their_o separation_n itself_o be_v not_o schismatical_a but_o innocent_a and_o not_o only_o so_o but_o just_a and_o necessary_a 99_o ad_fw-la §_o 36._o what_o you_o cite_v out_o of_o optatus_n l._n 2._o cont_n parm._n thou_o can_v not_o deny_v but_o that_o thou_o know_v that_o in_o the_o city_n of_o rome_n there_o be_v first_o a_o episcopal_a chair_n place_v for_o peter_n wherein_o peter_n the_o head_n of_o the_o apostle_n sit_v whereof_o also_o he_o be_v call_v cephas_n in_o which_o one_o chair_n unity_n be_v to_o be_v keep_v by_o all_o lest_o the_o other_o apostle_n may_v attribute_v to_o themselves_o each_o one_o his_o particular_a chair_n and_o that_o he_o shall_v be_v a_o schismatic_a and_o sinner_n who_o against_o that_o one_o single_a chair_n shall_v erect_v another_o all_o this_o be_v impertinent_a if_o it_o be_v well_o look_v into_o the_o truth_n be_v the_o donatist_n have_v set_v up_o at_o rome_n a_o bishop_n of_o their_o faction_n not_o with_o intent_n to_o make_v he_o bishop_n of_o the_o whole_a church_n but_o of_o that_o church_n in_o particular_a now_o optatus_n go_v upon_o s._n cyprian_n ground_n of_o one_o bishop_n in_o one_o church_n prove_v they_o schismatic_a for_o so_o do_v by_o this_o argument_n s._n peter_n be_v first_o bishop_n of_o rome_n neither_o do_v the_o apostle_n attribute_v to_o themselves_o each_o one_o his_o particular_a chair_n viz._n in_o that_o city_n for_o in_o other_o places_z
faith_n be_v commend_v by_o the_o preach_a of_o the_o apostle_n to_o who_o falsehood_n can_v have_v access_n answ_n for_o s._n cyprian_n all_o the_o world_n know_v that_o he_o ratio_fw-la he_o it_o be_v confess_v by_o baronius_n anno._n 238._o n._n 41._o by_o bellarm_n l._n 4._o de_fw-fr r._n pont._n c._n 7._o §._o tertia_fw-la ratio_fw-la resolute_o oppose_v a_o decree_n of_o the_o roman_a bishop_n and_o all_o that_o adhere_v to_o he_o in_o the_o point_n of_o rebaptising_a which_o that_o church_n at_o that_o time_n deliver_v as_o a_o necessary_a tradition_n so_o necessary_a that_o by_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n firmilianus_n and_o other_o bishop_n of_o cappadocia_n cilicia_n and_o galatia_n and_o general_o all_o who_o persist_v in_o the_o contrary_a opinion_n ibid._n opinion_n confess_v by_o baronius_n a_o 258._o n._n 14._o &_o 15._o by_o card._n perron_n repl._n l._n 1._o c._n 25._o ibid._n be_v therefore_o deprive_v of_o the_o church_n communion_n which_o excommunication_n can_v not_o but_o involve_v s._n cyprian_a who_o defend_v the_o same_o opinion_n as_o resolute_o as_o firmilianus_n though_o cardinal_n perren_n magisterial_o and_o without_o all_o colour_n of_o proof_n affirm_v the_o contrary_a and_o cyprian_n in_o particular_a so_o far_o cast_v off_o as_o for_o it_o to_o be_v pronounce_v by_o stephen_n a_o false_a christ_n again_o so_o necessary_a that_o the_o bishop_n which_o be_v send_v by_o cyprian_a from_o africa_n to_o rome_n be_v not_o admit_v to_o the_o communion_n of_o ordinary_a conference_n but_o all_o man_n who_o be_v subject_a to_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n authority_n be_v command_v by_o he_o not_o only_o to_o deny_v they_o the_o church_n peace_n and_o communion_n but_o even_o lodging_n and_o entertainment_n manifest_o declare_v that_o they_o reckon_v they_o among_o those_o who_o s._n john_n forbid_v to_o receive_v to_o house_n or_o to_o say_v god_n speed_n to_o they_o all_o these_o terror_n notwithstanding_o s._n cyprian_n hold_v still_o his_o former_a opinion_n and_o though_o out_o of_o respect_n to_o the_o church_n peace_n 1._o peace_n vide_fw-la con._n carth._n apud_fw-la sur_fw-fr to._n 1._o he_o judge_v no_o man_n nor_o cut_v off_o any_o man_n from_o the_o right_n of_o communion_n for_o think_v otherwise_o than_o he_o hold_v yet_o he_o conceive_v stephen_n and_o his_o adherent_n 18._o adherent_n bell._n l._n 2._o de_fw-fr conc._n c._n 5._o aug._n ep_v 48._o &_o lib._n 1._o de_fw-fr bapt._n c._n 18._o to_o hold_v a_o pernicious_a error_n and_o s._n austin_n though_o dispute_v with_o the_o donatist_n he_o use_v some_o tergiversation_n in_o the_o point_n yet_o confess_v elsewhere_o that_o it_o be_v not_o find_v that_o cyprian_a do_v ever_o change_v his_o opinion_n and_o so_o far_o be_v he_o from_o conceive_v any_o necessity_n of_o do_v so_o in_o submit_v to_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o bishop_n and_o church_n of_o rome_n that_o he_o plain_o profess_v that_o no_o other_o bishop_n but_o our_o lord_n jesus_n only_o have_v power_n to_o judge_n with_o authority_n of_o his_o judgement_n and_o as_o plain_o intimate_v that_o stephen_n for_o usurp_a such_o a_o power_n and_o make_v himself_o a_o judge_n over_o bishop_n be_v little_o better_a than_o a_o tyrant_n and_o as_o heavy_o almost_o he_o censure_v he_o and_o peremptory_o oppose_v he_o as_o obstinate_a in_o error_n in_o that_o very_a place_n where_o he_o deliver_v that_o famous_a say_n how_o can_v he_o have_v god_n for_o his_o father_n who_o have_v not_o the_o church_n for_o his_o mother_n little_a doubt_v it_o seem_v but_o a_o man_n may_v have_v the_o church_n for_o his_o mother_n who_o stand_v in_o opposition_n to_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o far_o from_o think_v what_o you_o fond_o obtrude_v upon_o he_o that_o to_o be_v unite_v to_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o to_o the_o church_n be_v all_o one_o and_o that_o separation_n from_o s._n peter_n chair_n be_v a_o mark_n i_o mean_v a_o certain_a mark_n either_o of_o schism_n or_o heresy_n 26._o but_o you_o have_v give_v a_o false_a or_o at_o least_o a_o strain_a translation_n of_o s._n cyprian_n forecited_a word_n for_o cyprian_n say_v not_o to_o who_o falsehood_n can_v have_v access_n as_o if_o he_o have_v exempt_v the_o roman_a church_n from_o a_o possibility_n of_o error_n but_o to_o who_o perfidiousness_n can_v have_v access_n mean_v those_o perfidious_a schismatic_n who_o he_o there_o complain_v of_o and_o of_o these_o by_o a_o rhetorical_a insinuation_n he_o say_v that_o with_o such_o good_a christian_n as_o the_o roman_n be_v it_o be_v not_o possible_a they_o shall_v find_v favourable_a entertainment_n as_o for_o his_o join_v the_o principal_a church_n and_o the_o chair_n of_o peter_n how_o that_o will_v serve_v to_o prove_v separation_n from_o the_o roman_a church_n to_o be_v a_o mark_n of_o heresy_n it_o be_v hard_o to_o understand_v though_o we_o do_v not_o altogether_o deny_v but_o that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n may_v be_v call_v the_o chair_n of_o s._n peter_n in_o regard_n he_o be_v say_v to_o have_v preach_v the_o gospel_n there_o and_o the_o principal_a church_n because_o the_o city_n be_v the_o principal_a and_o imperial_a city_n which_o prerogative_n of_o the_o city_n if_o we_o believe_v the_o father_n of_o the_o council_n of_o chalcedon_n be_v the_o ground_n and_o occasion_n why_o the_o father_n of_o former_a time_n i_o pray_v observe_v confer_v upon_o this_o church_n this_o prerogative_n above_o other_o church_n 27._o obj._n but_o in_o another_o place_n epist_n 52._o s._n cyprian_n make_v communicate_v with_o cornelius_n the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n and_o with_o the_o catholic_n church_n to_o be_v the_o same_o answ_n this_o do_v not_o prove_v that_o to_o communicate_v with_o the_o church_n and_o pope_n of_o rome_n and_o to_o communicate_v with_o the_o catholic_n church_n be_v always_o for_o that_o you_o assume_v one_o and_o the_o same_o thing_n s._n cyprian_n speak_v not_o of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n at_o all_o but_o of_o the_o bishop_n only_o who_o when_o he_o do_v communicate_v with_o the_o catholic_n church_n as_o cornelius_n at_o that_o time_n do_v than_o whosoever_o communicate_v with_o he_o can_v but_o communicate_v with_o the_o catholic_n church_n and_o then_o by_o accident_n one_o may_v true_o say_v such_o a_o one_o communicate_v with_o you_o that_o be_v with_o the_o catholic_n church_n and_o that_o to_o communicate_v with_o he_o be_v to_o communicate_v with_o the_o catholic_n church_n as_o if_o titius_n and_o sempronius_n be_v together_o he_o that_o be_v in_o company_n with_o titius_n can_v but_o be_v at_o that_o time_n in_o company_n with_o sempronius_n as_o if_o a_o general_n be_v march_v to_o some_o place_n with_o a_o army_n he_o that_o than_o be_v with_o the_o general_n must_v at_o that_o time_n be_v with_o the_o army_n and_o a_o man_n may_v say_v without_o absurdity_n such_o a_o time_n i_o be_v with_o the_o general_n that_o be_v with_o the_o army_n and_o that_o to_o be_v with_o the_o general_n be_v to_o be_v with_o the_o army_n or_o as_o if_o a_o man_n hand_n be_v join_v to_o his_o body_n the_o finger_n which_o be_v join_v to_o the_o hand_n be_v join_v to_o the_o body_n and_o a_o man_n may_v say_v true_o of_o it_o this_o finger_n be_v join_v to_o the_o hand_n that_o be_v to_o the_o body_n and_o to_o be_v join_v to_o the_o hand_n be_v to_o be_v join_v to_o the_o body_n because_o all_o these_o thing_n be_v by_o accident_n true_a and_o yet_o i_o hope_v you_o will_v not_o deny_v but_o the_o finger_n may_v possible_o be_v join_v to_o the_o hand_n and_o yet_o not_o to_o the_o body_n the_o hand_n be_v cut_v off_o from_o the_o body_n and_o a_o man_n may_v another_o time_n be_v with_o his_o general_n and_o not_o with_o his_o army_n he_o be_v absent_a from_o the_o army_n and_o therefore_o by_o like_a reason_n your_o collection_n be_v sophistical_a be_v in_o effect_n but_o this_o to_o communicate_v with_o such_o a_o bishop_n of_o rome_n who_o do_v communicate_v with_o the_o catholic_n church_n be_v to_o communicate_v with_o the_o catholic_n church_n therefore_o absolute_o and_o always_o it_o must_v be_v true_a that_o to_o communicate_v with_o he_o be_v by_o consequent_a to_o communicate_v with_o the_o catholic_n church_n and_o to_o be_v divide_v from_o the_o communion_n be_v to_o be_v a_o heretic_n 28._o obj._n s._n irenaeus_n say_v lib._n 3._o cont_n haer_fw-mi c._n 3._o because_o it_o be_v long_o to_o number_v the_o succession_n of_o all_o church_n we_o declare_v the_o tradition_n of_o the_o most_o great_a most_o ancient_a and_o know_a church_n found_v by_o the_o two_o glorious_a apostle_n peter_n and_o paul_n which_o tradition_n it_o have_v from_o the_o apostle_n come_v to_o we_o by_o succession_n of_o bishop_n we_o confound_v all_o those_o who_o any_o way_n either_o by_o vain_a glory_n blindness_n
commit_v they_o not_o you_o will_v say_v if_o he_o die_v in_o they_o without_o repentance_n and_o such_o protestant_n you_o speak_v of_o who_o without_o repentance_n die_v in_o their_o error_n yea_o but_o what_o if_o they_o die_v in_o their_o error_n with_o repentance_n than_o i_o hope_v you_o will_v have_v charity_n enough_o to_o think_v they_o may_v be_v save_v charity_n mist_n take_v it_o indeed_o for_o grant_v quote_v in_o the_o place_n above_o quote_v that_o this_o supposition_n be_v destructive_a of_o itself_o and_o that_o it_o be_v impossible_a and_o incongruous_a that_o a_o man_n shall_v repent_v of_o those_o error_n wherein_o he_o die_v or_o die_v in_o those_o whereof_o he_o repent_v but_o it_o be_v wise_o do_v of_o he_o to_o take_v it_o for_o grant_v for_o most_o certain_o he_o can_v not_o have_v speak_v one_o word_n of_o sense_n for_o the_o confirmation_n of_o it_o for_o see_v protestant_n believe_v as_o well_o as_o you_o god_n infinite_a and_o most_o admirable_a perfection_n in_o himself_o more_o than_o most_o worthy_a of_o all_o possible_a love_n see_v they_o believe_v as_o well_o as_o you_o his_o infinite_a goodness_n to_o they_o in_o create_v they_o of_o nothing_o in_o create_v they_o according_a to_o his_o own_o image_n in_o create_v all_o thing_n for_o their_o use_n and_o benefit_n in_o stream_v down_o his_o favour_n on_o they_o every_o moment_n of_o their_o life_n in_o design_v they_o if_o they_o serve_v he_o to_o infinite_a and_o eternal_a happiness_n in_o redeem_v they_o not_o with_o corruptible_a thing_n but_o the_o precious_a blood_n of_o his_o belove_a son_n see_v they_o believe_v as_o well_o as_o you_o his_o infinite_a goodness_n and_o patience_n towards_o they_o in_o expect_v their_o conversion_n in_o woo_v allure_a lead_v and_o by_o all_o mean_n which_o his_o wisdom_n can_v suggest_v unto_o he_o and_o man_n nature_n be_v capable_a of_o draw_v they_o to_o repentance_n and_o salvation_n see_v they_o believe_v these_o thing_n as_o well_o as_o you_o and_o for_o ought_v you_o know_v consider_v they_o as_o much_o as_o you_o and_o if_o they_o do_v not_o it_o be_v not_o their_o religion_n but_o they_o that_o be_v to_o blame_v what_o can_v hinder_v but_o that_o the_o consideration_n of_o god_n most_o infinite_a goodness_n to_o they_o and_o their_o own_o almost_o infinite_a wickedness_n against_o he_o god_n spirit_n cooperate_a with_o they_o may_v raise_v they_o to_o a_o true_a and_o sincere_a and_o a_o cordial_a love_n of_o god_n and_o see_v sorrow_n for_o have_v injure_v or_o offend_v the_o person_n belove_v or_o when_o we_o fear_v we_o may_v have_v offend_v he_o be_v the_o most_o natural_a effect_n of_o true_a love_n what_o can_v hinder_v but_o that_o love_n which_o have_v ofttimes_o constrain_v they_o to_o lay_v down_o their_o life_n for_o god_n which_o our_o saviour_n assure_v we_o be_v the_o noble_a sacrifice_n we_o can_v offer_v may_v produce_v in_o they_o a_o universal_a sorrow_n for_o all_o their_o sin_n both_o which_o they_o know_v they_o have_v commit_v and_o which_o they_o fear_v they_o may_v have_v in_o which_o number_n their_o be_v negligent_a or_o not_o dispassionate_a or_o not_o unprejudicate_v enough_o in_o seek_v the_o truth_n and_o the_o effect_n thereof_o their_o error_n if_o they_o be_v sin_n can_v but_o be_v comprise_v in_o a_o word_n what_o shall_v hinder_v but_o that_o that_o prayer_n delicta_fw-la sva_fw-la quis_fw-la intelligit_fw-la who_o can_v understand_v his_o fault_n lord_n cleanse_v thou_o i_o from_o my_o secret_a sin_n may_v be_v hear_v and_o accept_v by_o god_n as_o well_o from_o a_o protestant_n that_o die_v in_o some_o error_n as_o from_o a_o papist_n that_o die_v in_o some_o other_o sin_n of_o ignorance_n which_o perhaps_o he_o may_v more_o easy_o have_v discover_v to_o be_v sin_n than_o a_o protestant_n can_v his_o error_n to_o be_v error_n as_o well_o from_o a_o protestant_n that_o hold_v some_o error_n which_o as_o he_o conceive_v god_n word_n and_o his_o reason_n which_o be_v also_o in_o some_o sort_n god_n word_n lead_v he_o unto_o as_o from_o a_o dominican_n who_o perhaps_o take_v up_o his_o opinion_n upon_o trust_n not_o because_o he_o have_v reason_n to_o believe_v it_o true_a but_o because_o it_o be_v the_o opinion_n of_o his_o order_n for_o the_o same_o man_n if_o he_o have_v light_a upon_o another_o order_n will_v in_o all_o probability_n have_v be_v of_o the_o other_o opinion_n for_o what_o else_o be_v the_o cause_n that_o general_o all_o the_o dominicans_n be_v of_o one_o opinion_n and_o all_o the_o jesuit_n of_o the_o other_o i_o say_v from_o a_o dominican_n who_o take_v up_o his_o opinion_n upon_o trust_n and_o that_o such_o a_o opinion_n if_o we_o believe_v the_o writer_n of_o your_o order_n as_o if_o it_o be_v grant_v true_a it_o be_v not_o a_o point_n matter_n what_o opinion_n any_o man_n hold_v or_o what_o action_n any_o man_n do_v for_o the_o best_a will_v be_v as_o bad_a as_o the_o worst_a and_o the_o worst_a as_o good_a as_o the_o best_a and_o yet_o such_o be_v the_o partiality_n of_o your_o hypocrisy_n that_o of_o disagree_a papist_n neither_o shall_v deny_v the_o truth_n testify_v by_o god_n but_o both_o may_v hope_v for_o salvation_n but_o of_o disagree_v protestant_n though_o they_o differ_v in_o the_o same_o thing_n one_o side_n must_v deny_v god_n testimony_n and_o be_v incapable_a of_o salvation_n that_o a_o dominican_n through_o culpable_a negligence_n live_v and_o die_v in_o his_o error_n may_v repent_v of_o it_o though_o he_o know_v it_o not_o or_o be_v save_v though_o he_o do_v not_o but_o if_o a_o protestant_a do_v the_o very_a same_o thing_n in_o the_o very_a same_o point_n and_o die_v in_o his_o error_n his_o case_n be_v desperate_a the_o sum_n of_o all_o that_o have_v be_v say_v to_o this_o demand_n be_v this_o 1._o that_o not_o err_v protestant_n deny_v any_o truth_n testify_v by_o god_n under_o this_o formality_n as_o testify_v by_o he_o nor_o which_o they_o know_v or_o believe_v to_o be_v testify_v by_o he_o and_o therefore_o it_o be_v a_o horrible_a calumny_n in_o you_o to_o say_v they_o call_v god_n veracity_n in_o question_n for_o god_n undoubted_a and_o unquestioned_a veracity_n be_v to_o they_o the_o ground_n why_o they_o hold_v all_o they_o do_v hold_v neither_o do_v they_o hold_v any_o opinion_n so_o stiff_o but_o they_o will_v forgo_v it_o rather_o than_o this_o one_o that_o all_o which_o god_n say_v be_v true_a 2._o god_n have_v not_o so_o clear_o and_o plain_o declare_v himself_o in_o most_o of_o these_o thing_n which_o be_v in_o controversy_n between_o protestant_n but_o that_o a_o honest_a man_n who_o heart_n be_v right_a to_o god_n and_o one_o that_o be_v a_o true_a lover_n of_o god_n and_o of_o his_o truth_n may_v by_o reason_n of_o the_o conflict_n of_o contrary_a reason_n on_o both_o side_n very_o easy_o and_o therefore_o excusable_o mistake_v and_o embrace_v error_n for_o truth_n and_o reject_v truth_n for_o error_n 3._o if_o any_o protestant_n or_o papist_n be_v betray_v into_o or_o keep_v in_o any_o error_n by_o any_o sin_n of_o his_o will_n as_o it_o be_v to_o be_v fear_v many_o million_o be_v such_o error_n be_v as_o the_o cause_n of_o it_o sinful_a and_o damnable_a yet_o not_o exclusive_a of_o all_o hope_n of_o salvation_n but_o pardonable_a if_o discover_v upon_o a_o particular_a explicit_a repentance_n if_o not_o discover_v upon_o a_o general_a and_o implicit_a repentance_n for_o all_o sin_n know_v and_o unknown_a in_o which_o number_n all_o sinful_a error_n must_v of_o necessity_n be_v contain_v 27._o ad_fw-la 19_o §_o to_o the_o nine_o wherein_o you_o be_v so_o urgent_a for_o a_o particular_a catalogue_n of_o fundamental_o i_o answer_v almost_o in_o your_o own_o word_n that_o we_o also_o constant_o urge_v and_o require_v to_o have_v a_o particular_a catalogue_n of_o your_o fundamental_o whether_o they_o be_v write_v verity_n or_o unwritten_a tradition_n or_o church_n definition_n all_o which_o you_o say_v integrate_a the_o material_a object_n of_o your_o faith_n in_o a_o word_n of_o all_o such_o point_n as_o be_v define_v and_o sufficient_o propose_v so_o that_o whosoever_o deny_v or_o doubt_n of_o any_o of_o they_o be_v certain_o in_o the_o state_n of_o damnation_n a_o catalogue_n i_o say_v in_o particular_a of_o the_o proposal_n and_o not_o only_o some_o general_a definition_n or_o description_n under_o which_o you_o lurk_v deceitful_o of_o what_o and_o what_o only_o be_v sufficient_o propose_v wherein_o yet_o you_o do_v not_o very_o well_o agree_v injury_n this_o great_a diversity_n of_o opinion_n among_o you_o touch_v this_o matter_n if_o any_o man_n doubt_n of_o it_o let_v he_o read_v franciscus_n picus_n mirandula_n in_o l._n theorem_fw-la in_o exposit_n theor_n quarti_fw-la and_o tho._n waldensis_n tom._n 3._o de_fw-fr
or_o any_o other_o creature_n for_o the_o object_n of_o their_o devotion_n show_v plain_o that_o they_o give_v it_o she_o for_o her_o relation_n to_o christ_n answ_n the_o collyridians_n can_v not_o say_v this_o as_o appear_v by_o what_o have_v be_v say_v before_o as_o it_o be_v a_o most_o shameless_a slander_n upon_o god_n church_n and_o such_o as_o without_o repentance_n will_v lie_v heavy_a upon_o his_o soul_n that_o utter_v it_o that_o the_o collyridians_n might_n as_o just_o and_o true_o have_v say_v all_o this_o for_o themselves_o as_o papist_n for_o themselves_o reply_n to_o this_o i_o reply_v four_o thing_n 1._o that_o to_o my_o last_o and_o most_o convince_a reason_n you_o have_v answer_v as_o much_o as_o you_o can_v i_o believe_v but_o yet_o you_o have_v answer_v nothing_o and_o i_o be_o well_o content_a you_o shall_v do_v so_o for_o where_o nothing_o be_v to_o be_v have_v the_o king_n himself_o must_v lose_v his_o right_n 2._o that_o if_o i_o have_v think_v or_o speak_v better_a of_o the_o collyridians_n than_o they_o deserve_v yet_o i_o can_v see_v how_o this_o have_v be_v to_o slander_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n 3._o that_o i_o do_v not_o positive_o affirm_v that_o the_o collyridians_n might_n do_v so_o but_o desire_v only_o it_o may_v be_v inquire_v into_o and_o examine_v whether_o for_o the_o reason_n allege_v they_o may_v not_o do_v so_o 4._o and_o last_o upon_o a_o thorough_a examination_n of_o the_o matter_n i_o do_v now_o affirm_v what_o before_o i_o do_v not_o that_o the_o collyridians_n for_o aught_o appear_v to_o the_o contrary_a may_v just_o and_o true_o have_v say_v for_o the_o justification_n of_o their_o practice_n as_o much_o nay_o the_o very_a same_o thing_n that_o the_o papist_n do_v for_o they_o for_o they_o may_v have_v say_v we_o be_v christian_n and_o believe_v the_o scripture_n and_o believe_v there_o be_v but_o one_o god_n we_o offer_v not_o to_o the_o bless_a virgin_n as_o believe_v she_o be_v god_n but_o the_o mother_n of_o god_n our_o worship_n of_o she_o be_v not_o absolute_a but_o relative_a not_o terminate_v in_o she_o but_o give_v to_o she_o for_o her_o son_n sake_n and_o if_o our_o practice_n may_v be_v allow_v we_o be_v content_a to_o call_v our_o oblation_n not_o a_o sacrifice_n but_o a_o present_a neither_o be_v there_o any_o reason_n why_o it_o shall_v be_v call_v a_o sacrifice_n more_o than_o the_o offer_n and_o burn_v a_o taper_n to_o the_o honour_n of_o the_o same_o virgin_n all_o this_o the_o collyridians_n might_n have_v say_v for_o themselves_o and_o therefore_o i_o believe_v you_o will_v have_v more_o cause_n to_o repent_v you_o for_o daub_v over_o impiety_n with_o untempered_a mortar_n than_o i_o shall_v have_v for_o slander_v the_o roman_a church_n with_o a_o matter_n of_o truth_n 9_o demand_v whether_o therefore_o one_o of_o the_o two_o must_v not_o of_o necessity_n follow_v that_o either_o the_o ancient_a church_n err_v in_o condemn_v the_o opinion_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o collyridians_n as_o heretical_a or_o else_o that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n err_v in_o approve_v the_o same_o opinion_n and_o the_o same_o practice_n in_o effect_n which_o in_o they_o be_v condemn_v that_o be_v whether_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n must_v not_o be_v heretical_a with_o the_o collyridians_n or_o else_o the_o collyridians_n catholic_n with_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n answ_n it_o appear_v by_o the_o former_a answer_n that_o neither_o do_v the_o ancient_a church_n err_v in_o condemn_v the_o opinion_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o collyridians_n as_o heretical_a nor_o do_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n approve_v the_o same_o opinion_n or_o the_o same_o practice_n reply_n the_o substance_n of_o the_o former_a answer_n be_v but_o this_o that_o the_o papist_n offer_v to_o the_o virgin_n mary_n and_o other_o saint_n wax_v taper_n by_o way_n of_o gift_n or_o present_a not_o of_o sacrifice_n and_o to_o she_o not_o as_o to_o a_o god_n but_o as_o the_o mother_n of_o god_n but_o that_o the_o collyridians_n offer_v to_o she_o by_o way_n of_o sacrifice_n as_o to_o a_o sovereign_a power_n and_o deity_n to_o this_o i_o have_v reply_v and_o prove_v that_o it_o no_o way_n appear_v that_o the_o collyridians_n do_v believe_v the_o bless_a virgin_n to_o be_v a_o sovereign_a power_n and_o deity_n or_o that_o she_o be_v not_o subordinate_a to_o god_n then_o that_o their_o offering_n may_v be_v call_v a_o gift_n as_o well_o as_o the_o papist_n and_o the_o papist_n a_o sacrifice_n as_o well_o as_o they_o both_o of_o they_o be_v a_o consumption_n of_o a_o creature_n in_o honour_n of_o the_o bless_a virgin_n and_o neither_o of_o they_o more_o than_o so_o and_o therefore_o either_o the_o collyridians_n must_v stand_v with_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n or_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n fall_n with_o the_o collyridians_n it_o have_v be_v perhaps_o sufficient_a for_o i_o thus_o to_o have_v vindicate_v my_o assertion_n from_o contrary_a objection_n without_o take_v on_o myself_o the_o burden_n of_o prove_v a_o negative_a yet_o to_o free_v from_o all_o doubt_n the_o conformity_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n with_o the_o collyridians_n in_o this_o point_n i_o think_v it_o will_v be_v necessary_a to_o show_v and_o that_o by_o many_o very_a probable_a argument_n that_o epiphanius_n do_v not_o impute_v to_o they_o the_o pretend_a heresy_n of_o believe_v the_o virgin_n mary_n god_n for_o than_o that_o other_o evasion_n that_o their_o oblation_n be_v a_o sacrifice_n and_o the_o papist_n be_v not_o together_o with_o this_o pretence_n will_v of_o itself_o fall_v to_o the_o ground_n now_o a_o opinion_n may_v be_v impute_v to_o a_o man_n two_o way_n either_o because_o he_o hold_v and_o maintain_v it_o express_o and_o formal_o and_o in_o term_n or_o because_o it_o may_v by_o a_o rational_a deduction_n be_v collect_v from_o some_o other_o opinion_n which_o he_o do_v hold_v in_o this_o latter_a sense_n i_o deny_v not_o but_o epiphanius_n may_v impute_v this_o opinion_n we_o speak_v of_o to_o the_o collyridians_n as_o a_o consequence_n upon_o their_o practice_n which_o practice_n they_o esteem_v lawful_a but_o that_o they_o hold_v it_o and_o own_v it_o formal_o and_o in_o term_n this_o i_o say_v epiphanius_n do_v not_o impute_v to_o they_o which_o i_o think_v for_o these_o seven_o reason_n my_o first_o reason_n be_v because_o he_o can_v not_o just_o do_v so_o and_o therefore_o without_o evident_a proof_n we_o may_v not_o say_v he_o do_v so_o for_o this_o be_v to_o be_v uncharitable_a to_o he_o in_o make_v he_o uncharitable_a to_o other_o now_o i_o say_v he_o can_v not_o just_o charge_v they_o with_o this_o opinion_n because_o he_o be_v not_o inform_v of_o any_o such_o opinion_n that_o they_o hold_v but_o only_o of_o their_o practice_n and_o this_o practice_n be_v no_o sufficient_a proof_n that_o they_o hold_v this_o opinion_n that_o his_o information_n reach_v no_o further_a than_o their_o practice_n appear_v out_o of_o his_o own_o word_n i_o have_v hear_v say_v he_o haeres_fw-la 78._o another_o thing_n with_o great_a astonishment_n that_o some_o be_v mad_o affect_v to_o the_o bless_a virgin_n endeavour_v to_o bring_v she_o in_o in_o god_n place_n be_v mad_a and_o beside_o themselves_o for_o they_o report_v that_o certain_a woman_n in_o arabia_n have_v devise_v this_o vanity_n to_o have_v meeting_n and_o offer_v a_o cake_n to_o the_o bless_a virgin_n the_o same_o practice_n he_o set_v down_o haeres_fw-la 79._o but_o that_o he_o be_v inform_v of_o any_o such_o opinion_n that_o they_o hold_v he_o have_v not_o a_o word_n or_o syllable_n to_o any_o such_o purpose_n and_o yet_o if_o he_o have_v be_v inform_v of_o any_o here_o have_v be_v the_o place_n to_o set_v it_o down_o which_o certain_o write_v his_o book_n rather_o of_o heretical_a opinion_n than_o practice_n he_o will_v not_o have_v omit_v to_o do_v if_o there_o have_v be_v occasion_n his_o silence_n therefore_o be_v a_o sufficient_a argument_n that_o he_o be_v not_o inform_v of_o any_o such_o opinion_n that_o they_o hold_v now_o that_o their_o practice_n be_v no_o assurance_n that_o they_o hold_v this_o opinion_n it_o be_v manifest_a because_o they_o may_v ground_v it_o not_o upon_o this_o opinion_n that_o she_o be_v god_n but_o upon_o another_o as_o false_a though_o not_o altogether_o so_o impious_a that_o the_o worship_n of_o oblation_n be_v not_o proper_a to_o god_n alone_o and_o therefore_o though_o epiphanius_n may_v think_v or_o fear_v that_o possible_o they_o may_v ground_v their_o practice_n upon_o that_o other_o impious_a opinion_n and_o therefore_o out_o of_o abundant_a caution_n confute_v that_o also_o as_o he_o do_v oblique_o and_o in_o a_o word_n and_o once_o only_o in_o all_o his_o long_a discourse_n by_o tell_v they_o that_o our_o saviour_n call_v her_o woman_n yet_o he_o have_v no_o
ground_n from_o their_o practice_n to_o assure_v himself_o that_o certain_o they_o do_v hold_v so_o nay_o justice_n and_o reason_n and_o charity_n will_v that_o he_o shall_v incline_v himself_o to_o believe_v that_o they_o ground_v their_o practice_n upon_o that_o other_o opinion_n which_o have_v less_o impiety_n in_o it_o that_o be_v that_o this_o worship_n of_o oblation_n be_v not_o proper_a to_o god_n but_o communicable_a to_o creature_n high_a in_o his_o favour_n my_o second_o be_v because_o if_o epiphanius_n have_v know_v that_o these_o collyridians_n hold_v the_o bless_a virgin_n to_o be_v a_o supreme_a power_n and_o deity_n this_o be_v a_o far_o great_a matter_n than_o offer_v a_o cake_n to_o she_o shall_v in_o all_o probability_n rather_o have_v give_v they_o their_o denomination_n at_o least_o when_o he_o set_v down_o what_o their_o heresy_n be_v he_o will_v have_v make_v this_o part_n of_o it_o that_o they_o do_v believe_v so_o but_o to_o the_o contrary_a in_o his_o anacaephaleosis_n p._n 130._o he_o thus_o describe_v they_o they_o that_o offer_v to_o the_o name_n of_o the_o bless_a virgin_n cake_n who_o be_v call_v collyridians_n and_o again_o p._n 150._o they_o that_o offer_v to_o the_o bless_a virgin_n cake_n who_o be_v call_v collyridians_n so_o to_o the_o 79th_o heresy_n he_o give_v this_o title_n against_o the_o collyridians_n who_o offer_v to_o mary_n so_o haeres_fw-la 78_o and_o 79._o he_o set_v down_o what_o he_o hear_v of_o they_o but_o no_o where_o that_o they_o hold_v this_o opinion_n of_o she_o i_o conclude_v therefore_o that_o he_o never_o conceive_v this_o opinion_n to_o be_v a_o part_n of_o their_o heresy_n and_o they_o be_v no_o further_o chargeable_a with_o it_o than_o as_o a_o probable_a consequent_a upon_o their_o practice_n my_o three_o be_v because_o have_v the_o collyridians_n hold_v she_o god_n they_o will_v have_v worship_v she_o all_o the_o year_n long_o and_o not_o only_o once_o a_o year_n at_o a_o solemn_a time_n as_o epiphanius_n say_v they_o do_v my_o four_o be_v because_o if_o epiphanius_n have_v know_v that_o they_o hold_v her_o god_n he_o will_v questionless_a have_v urge_v they_o with_o those_o attribute_n that_o be_v give_v to_o god_n in_o scripture_n as_o eternity_n immortality_n impossibility_n omnipotence_n etc._n etc._n and_o show_v they_o that_o if_o they_o believe_v the_o scripture_n they_o can_v not_o think_v of_o she_o any_o of_o those_o thing_n if_o they_o do_v not_o they_o have_v no_o reason_n to_o think_v of_o she_o any_o thing_n more_o than_o of_o a_o ordinary_a woman_n my_o five_o be_v because_o have_v their_o opinion_n be_v that_o the_o bless_a virgin_n be_v god_n a_o great_a part_n of_o epiphanius_n discourse_n be_v plain_o ridiculous_a both_o where_o he_o say_v only_o without_o proof_n she_o be_v not_o a_o god_n but_o a_o mortal_a creature_n which_o to_o they_o that_o hold_v the_o contrary_n shall_v not_o have_v be_v say_v but_o prove_v but_o especial_o where_o he_o speak_v to_o this_o purpose_n as_o he_o do_v very_o frequent_o that_o the_o honour_n of_o oblation_n be_v not_o to_o be_v give_v to_o angel_n or_o man_n much_o less_o to_o woman_n but_o only_o to_o god_n for_o what_o have_v that_o be_v to_o the_o collyridians_n if_o they_o think_v she_o as_o be_v pretend_v a_o sovereign_a power_n and_o deity_n to_o what_o purpose_n be_v it_o for_o epiphanius_n to_o ask_v quis_fw-la prophetam_fw-la what_o prophet_n ever_o permit_v that_o a_o man_n much_o less_o a_o woman_n shall_v be_v adore_v though_o he_o be_v yet_o alive_a nor_o john_n nor_o tecla_n nor_o any_o other_o saint_n for_o neither_o shall_v the_o old_a superstition_n have_v dominion_n over_o we_o that_o leave_v the_o live_a god_n we_o shall_v adore_v his_o creature_n to_o what_o end_n i_o say_v be_v all_o this_o if_o they_o think_v she_o not_o a_o saint_n nor_o creature_n but_o god_n himself_o and_o the_o lord_n of_o all_o how_o do_v this_o argument_n touch_v they_o ne_o angelos_n quidem_fw-la he_o suffer_v not_o the_o very_a angel_n to_o be_v adore_v how_o much_o less_o the_o daughter_n of_o anna_n if_o they_o think_v she_o not_o the_o daughter_n of_o anna_n but_o god_n eternal_a in_o vain_a have_v it_o be_v to_o say_v to_o they_o not_o to_o a_o woman_n no_o nor_o to_o a_o man_n but_o to_o god_n alone_o be_v this_o mystery_n of_o oblation_n due_a so_o that_o the_o angel_n themselves_o be_v not_o fit_a subject_n for_o such_o a_o honour_n or_o again_o let_v the_o creature_n be_v turn_v to_o the_o creator_n let_v shame_n at_o length_n compel_v you_o to_o worship_n god_n alone_o or_o last_o that_o so_o often_o repeat_v let_v mary_n be_v honour_v but_o the_o lord_n only_o adore_v for_o they_o may_v have_v answer_v all_o this_o in_o a_o word_n say_v all_o this_o discourse_n sit_v beside_o the_o cushion_n and_o concern_v we_o and_o our_o offering_n nothing_o at_o all_o for_o we_o believe_v the_o bless_a virgin_n to_o who_o we_o offer_v neither_o man_n nor_o woman_n nor_o angel_n nor_o creature_n but_o a_o deity_n a_o six_o reason_n let_v it_o be_v this_o if_o epiphanius_n do_v indeed_o say_v of_o the_o collyridians_n as_o be_v pretend_v that_o they_o hold_v the_o virgin_n mary_n god_n and_o so_o difference_n their_o practice_n from_o the_o papist_n then_o the_o author_n of_o this_o answer_n and_o petavius_n in_o his_o translation_n need_v not_o to_o have_v dictate_v to_o he_o what_o he_o shall_v say_v nor_o make_v he_o say_v so_o whether_o he_o will_v or_o no_o but_o it_o be_v evident_a they_o do_v so_o as_o of_o the_o author_n of_o this_o answer_n i_o have_v already_o show_v and_o for_o petavius_n his_o part_n i_o will_v so_o present_v it_o to_o your_o view_n that_o if_o you_o will_v not_o shut_v your_o eye_n you_o shall_v not_o choose_v but_o see_v it_o first_o then_o haeres_fw-la 78._o propè_fw-la fin_n he_o petavius_n set_v in_o his_o margin_n quidam_fw-la deum_fw-la mariam_n esse_fw-la crediderunt_fw-la and_o to_o countenance_v this_o with_o a_o loquuntur_fw-la of_o his_o own_o put_n in_o make_v they_o speak_v of_o she_o like_o mad_a man_n i._n e._n they_o say_v she_o be_v god_n whereas_o in_o epiphanius_n greek_n they_o say_v just_o nothing_o second_o to_o fasten_v the_o pretend_a opinion_n on_o they_o he_o translate_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d novum_n dogma_fw-la presume_v it_o seem_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d will_v easy_o be_v mistake_v for_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d and_o therefore_o mean_v nothing_o by_o it_o but_o a_o vanity_n or_o folly_n three_o he_o translate_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d illud_fw-la and_o so_o make_v it_o look_v backward_o to_o that_o pretend_a novum_n dogma_fw-la of_o the_o collyridians_n whereas_o it_o signify_v there_o and_n and_o look_v forward_o to_o their_o practice_n four_o with_o the_o help_n of_o a_o colon_n he_o stop_v the_o sense_n at_o commentas_fw-la fuisse_fw-la whereas_o in_o epiphanius_n there_o be_v but_o a_o comma_n and_o the_o sense_n go_v on_o without_o suspension_n five_o with_o a_o adeo_fw-la ut_fw-la he_o bring_v in_o their_o action_n as_o a_o effect_n of_o their_o former_a opinion_n whereas_o epiphanius_n lay_v nothing_o to_o their_o charge_n but_o their_o action_n only_o so_o that_o whereas_o epiphanius_n his_o word_n true_o translate_v run_v thus_o another_o thing_n i_o have_v receive_v with_o great_a astonishment_n that_o other_o be_v mad_a concern_v the_o bless_a virgin_n have_v and_o do_v go_v about_o to_o bring_v she_o in_o in_o the_o place_n of_o god_n be_v mad_a i_o say_v and_o beside_o themselves_o for_o they_o report_v that_o certain_a woman_n in_o arabia_n have_v bring_v this_o vanity_n of_o offer_v a_o cake_n to_o her_o name_n petavius_n make_v they_o thus_o not_o without_o admiration_n we_o have_v hear_v another_o thing_n that_o some_o in_o these_o thing_n that_o concern_v the_o most_o holy_a virgin_n have_v proceed_v to_o that_o degree_n of_o madness_n that_o they_o will_v obtrude_v she_o upon_o we_o for_o a_o god_n and_o speak_v of_o she_o as_o madman_n for_o they_o report_v that_o certain_a woman_n in_o arabia_n have_v invent_v that_o new_a opinion_n so_o that_o to_o the_o virgin_n name_n and_o honour_n they_o offer_v by_o way_n of_o sacrifice_n a_o cake_n or_o wreath_n of_o bread_n again_o in_o the_o same_o haeres_fw-la 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d he_o translate_v advantageous_o per_fw-la mulieres_fw-la sacrificia_fw-la facere_fw-la whereas_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d be_v more_o general_a than_o sacrificia_fw-la facere_fw-la and_o signify_v sacris_fw-la operari_fw-la or_o sacros_fw-la ritus_fw-la peragere_fw-la again_o in_o the_o same_o place_n whereas_o epiphanius_n say_v simple_o and_o absolute_o let_v no_o man_n offer_v to_o her_o name_n he_o make_v it_o let_v no_o man_n offer_v sacrifice_n to_o her_o name_n as_o if_o you_o may_v lawful_o offer_v any_o