Selected quad for the lemma: ground_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
ground_n	call_v	church_n	pillar_n	2,921	5	10.5182	5	true

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A07344	An antidote against popery confected out of scriptures, fathers, councels, and histories. Wherein dialogue-wise are shewed, the points, grounds, and antiquitie of the Protestant religion; and the first springing vp of the points of popery: together with the Antichristianisme thereof. Being alone sufficient to inable any Protestant of meane capacitie, to vnderstand and yeeld a reason of his religion, and to incounter with and foyle the aduersary. By Iohn Mayer, B.D. and pastor of the Church of little Wratting in Suffolke.	Mayer, John, 1583-1664.	1625 (1625)	STC 17729; ESTC S102861	69,172	94

So that we may most truely affirme that there is no one tenent of our Church but we haue a plaine place of Scripture for it but it may truly be retorted vpon you that you haue not one plaine place for any one of your tenents or practices so that ye are faine miserably to wrest and straine any text hence alledged and when that will not doe to fly to Apochryphall bookes traditions and ridiculous fables Elym Are all these sayings in your Bible if they bee it is more then I know but sure I am that there are sentences plainly teaching the same that we doe For what else is that saying of our Sauiour This is my body and my flesh is meat indeed and blood drinke indeed and vpon this rocke will I build my Church and to thee will I giue the Keyes of the Kingdome of heauen and againe Peter feed my sheepe And touching the Church Math. 18.17 1 Tim 3.15 If he heareth not the Church let him be to thee as an Ethnicke and the Church is the ground and pillar of truth Touching other points we need none other Scripture seeing to the Church it is promised Ioh. 16.13 When he is come which is the spirit of truth he will lead you into all truth Wherefore the Church cannot erre and whatsoeuer is by her propounded as matter of faith or practice must needs then be right But bee it knowne vnto you that wee want not plaine places for particular points Touching iustification Iam. 2.24 A man is not iustified by faith onely but by workes Touching prayer for the dead There is a sinne vnto death I say not that yee should pray for it 1 Ioh. 5.16 Iam. 5.14 Luke 7.47 Math. 25. Touching extreame vnction They shall pray for him and anoint him in the name of the Lord. Touching the merit of workes Many sinnes are forgiuen her because shee hath loued much and Come ye blessed c. for I was hungry and yee fed me c. For time would faile me if I should go on to alleage all the places that plainly make for vs. Paul You doe well so to slieglit our euidences brought out of the holy Scriptures because they are so plaine that they cannot bee answered neither indeed doe your sect much acquaint your selues with the Bible for there are some students in Diuinity of many yeares that neuer read the Bible To your places therefore How doth the speech of our Sauiour make for Transubstantiation without altering or adding It is meat indeed we confesse but he saith not is meat for the body nor yet in explaining himself afterwards hath he one word intimating a bodily substance that he would giue to be fed vpon but the clean contrary for he saith Ioh. 6.63 the flesh profiteth nothing my words are spirit and life Againe for those sayings vnto Peter there is nothing plaine for Peters supremacy for his bearing vp all as a foundation and much lesse for his pretended successours the Bishops of Rome For plainly to teach these things had beene to haue said vpon thee and thy successours will I build my Church and to thee and to him that shall succeed thee in thy Bishopricke at Rome I will giue authority ouer all others But so far is the Lord from this that when there was iust occasion offered vpon the motion of the mother of Zebedees children to declare the supreme when they contended about it amongst themselues hee speaketh no word to settle the supremacy vpon any one but altogether to stop the mouth of any from once challenging it But I haue spoken sufficiently of this before so that I shall not need to adde any thing about his commission to feed his sheepe It is maruaile that when all chiefe points of faith are so plainely expressed that this which is so much stood vpon as inferiour to none should be so obscurely passed ouer Touching the Church there is nothing plainely spoken that it shall be alwayes visible but onely it may be implyed that as long as there are Christians to doe those mutuall offices of reproouing one another for sinne there shall be a discipline exercised in the Church how corrupt soeuer for the chastisement of such as are complained of as manifest transgressors of the Law the iust proceedings whereof notwithstanding the corruptions are of force to the terror of malefactors For that saying tell the Church at that time had reference to a most corrupt Church of Scribes and Pharisees whose authority was yet by the Lord established saying Math. 23.1 whatsoeuer they bid you obserue that obserue and doe So that from hence nothing more can be rightly taught no not by inference but that there shall alwayes be some visible Church good or bad which we also acknowledge But in case that there bee two such Churches together who doubteth forsaking that which is corrupt to goe to the best and soundest Touching error from which you seeke to exempt your Church because the Church is called the gound and pillar of truth what is this to the present Church of Rome the sinke of most grosse errors and superstitions The true Church indeed such as it was in those dayes founded vpon the Prophets and Apostles Christ himselfe being the chiefe corner slone Ephes 2.20 was the ground of truth because therein the truth was preserued and vpheld and wheresoeuer it is so at this day that Church is likewise the ground and pillar of truth But it doth not necessarily follow that wheresoeuer the Church is whether sound or corrupt it is the ground of truth for so much as the truth held and eleaued vnto in all things maketh the Church the pillar and ground of truth and not the Church that to be true whatsoeuer she shall think good to propound For otherwise Christ the Prophets Apostles with their dictates institutions and writings should not bee a ground vnto men succeeding and inferiour to them but these men should bee a ground vnto them which were absurd And the same I answer to that promise of the spirit it was peculiar to the Apostles and special instruments stirred vp for those times to be so guided into all truth as not to erre because what came from them was to bee a ground to the faithfull in all succeeding ages and it is most palpably wrested to your Church now And if your fundamentall places be thus impertinently alledged the rest will fall without any labour at the least most worthy Sergius you may be able to iudge hereof by that which hath beene already spoken in laying open the faith of the reformed Church Serg. Paul When these places were first alledged by Elymas I thought it impossible to answer them and therefore did begin to incline to thinke better of the Roman Church then you had perswaded me but now I see that they are but the painting and colouring of a deformed face being without all true beauty And for the places omitted I haue them

him the punishment and not the fault hath done away both fault and punishment Aug. de verb. Dom. Scr. 37. and elsewhere more expresly Christ had two good things righteousnesse and immortality wee two euill things sinne and wortality the one hee tooke vpon him the other he did not and by taking vpon him the one he freed vs from both As for satisfaction required of vs it is not as he sheweth for punishment but to shew our repentance by our outward actions So that according to August wee are deliuered from mortality as a punishment and not only from hell fire Elym Howsoeuer you seeme to make these learned Fathers to speake it is plaine that they meant onely eternall punishments borne by Christ for vs. And therefore they doe vsually speake of works of penance and almes as hauing force to purge and wash away sinne Chrysostome sayth Hom. 1. in Gen. The common Lord of vs all desirous to haue all our sinnes washed away hath inuented this cure which is made by fasting Lib. de promis prad part 2. c. 2. Hom. 1. And Prosper saith Almes cleanse the whole man And Cesarius sayth that a man who by sinning hath lost himselfe doth agains redeeme himselfe by his satisfaction Paul Where is there a word in all these touching satisfaction for temporall punishments It may rather bee inferred if these speeches be strictly taken that wee are able to doe something to deliuer our selues from sinne both in respect of guilt and punishment temporall eternall Wherefore it must needs bee yeelded that these things were spoken improperly that being ascribed to the instrument or meanes which is proper vnto Christ Satisfaction therefore as it is now taught in your Church is rather to bee referred to the Lateran Councell Anno 1215 wherein the sacrament of penance was established an appendix whereof is satisfaction Elym Because you haue spoken of the sacrament of penance first appointed in the Lateran Councell I will lay hold vpon the occasion to put you to proue the nouelty of the seuen sacraments for if seuen haue beene anciently acknowledged this is not so new as you would make the world beleeue Paul I am very willing to follow you herein and let the issue rest vpon my prouing your seuen Sacraments to be nouelties I say then that this number was not knowne nor acknowledged by antiquity but was first taught by Peter Lombard and the Schoole-men following him aboue 1000 yeares after Christ Epist 118. Saint Augustine sayth the Sacraments of the New Testament are most few in number Isidorus An. 600 sayth Lib. 6 Originum c. 19. Pasc de Caena The Sacraments are Baptisme and Chrisme and the body and blood of Christ And Pascasius Anno 900 sayth likewise Elym They say these two are the chiefe indeed but they exclude not the rest Hugo de Sancto Victore teacheth seuen sacraments and of them he saith some are the principall wherein saluation standeth Lib. de sacram 7. part 9. c. 6. viz. Baptisme and the Supper of the Lord the rest though they bee not so necessary yet they profit vnto sanctification And I could easily shew that the ancientest Fathers haue called euery of these Sacraments Paul I grant you without shewing that they called them sacraments and so they called any holy signe according to Augustines definition August Epist 5. Euery holy sigue is a Sacrament But that there are any more then two properly so called they neuer taught and euen your Hugo who acknowledgeth 7 can be no ground for your 7 for he reckoneth not penance for one but the water of aspersion And the very Schoolemen deny the rest to be sacraments Lib. 4.26 properly so called P. Lombard denyeth Matrimony to be a Sacrament properly and vniuocally with the other sacraments and Durand likewise vpon that place Lib. 4. dist 24. The same Lombard denyeth ordination to bee properly a sacrament and Alexander de Hales and Thomas Aquinas vpon that place c. Serg. Paul This your dispute about the Sacraments hath brought to my mind another point yet ●●toucht about the holy Scriptures and Traditions Can you shew that it is a noueliy is hold that together with the Canonical Scriptures Apocryphall bookes are to be receiued and vnwritten traditions as a rule of our saith or hath it euer beene held thus Paul It is a nouelty to hold that the Scriptures doe not containe in them all things necessary to saluation and that Apocryphall bookes are to be receiued as Canonicall and that traditious are necessary to saluation For the Fathers sought to hold all men onely to the Scriptures Hom. 1. in Psal 95. Chrysostome saith If any thing bee spoken without Scripture the thought of the bearers limpeth sometimes yeelding and sometime doubting And againe If ye hears any saying I haue the holy Spirit Serm. de S. Sp. but not speaking out of the Gospell bee speaketh of himselfe and the holy Spirit is not in him So Basil reg Mor. 8. 28. Epist 80. And touching Apocryphall books Cyril Hierusalym sayth Haus nothing to doe with Apocryphall bookes Catee 4. but read the canonicall which are considently read in the Church The Apostles and first Bishops were much wiser and more religious then thou who deliuered the scriptures vnto vs. Doe not thou therefore seeing thou art a child of the Church ges beyond their bounds Athen in Synop. Athanasius sayth There are 22 bookes of the old Testament Canonicall but there are other bookes which are not Canonicall which are onely read of the Catecumeni as the booke of Wisdome Ecclesiasticus c. Ierom calleth the History of Susamus Prafat in Den. of Bel and the Dragon fables and saith the same was the opinion of Eusebius Apollinarius Methodius c. Baruch was not receiued as Canonicall till the Councell of Florence Anno 1439. And touching vnwritten traditions they receiued none of old but either such as were consonant to the holy Scriptures which were written in sense though not in word according to Augustine of which was the baptisme of Infants and not to rebaptize De Gen ad lit lib. 10 c. 23. Tertul de Coron c. 23. or customes in indifferent things according to Tertullian who saith Dost thou not thinke that it is lawfull for euery faithfull Church to conceiue and constituent that which agreeth to God 〈◊〉 to diseiplione and profireth 〈◊〉 solnation And these by the prestice of your owne Church may be left off again For the thrice dipping in Baptisin standing in time of prayer vpon the Lords day tasting of milke and honcy in Baptisme c. anciently receiued are now abrogated and not held to bind Elym I could reioyne with you about this argument and bring many passages of the Fathers shewing their high esteeme of traditions but lest these disputes should proue tedious to this noble person and that he may not being fascinated with that which you haue said incline