are capable to judge of such matters that many do heartily believe and profess the true Religion and conscientiously practice the Duties of it who yeâ— do not understand the true Grounds upon which it challenges their belief And no man doubts but whoever does so believe profess and practice the true Religion if he perseveres to the end shall certainly attain Salvation by it 2. That how much soever it concerns those who reject the true Religion whom you may call Dissenters if you please to examine and consider why they do so and how needful soever Penalties may be to bring them to this it is however utterly unreasonable that such as have not the Coactive Power should take upon them to inflict Penalties for that purpose Because as that is not consistent with Order and Government which cannot stand where private persons are permitted to usurp the Coactive Power So there is nothing more manifest than that the prejudice which is done to Religion and to the interest of men's Souls by destroying Government does infinitely outweigh any good that can possibly be done by that which destroys it And whoever admits and considers these things I am very secure he will be far enough from admitting that there is any Parity of Reason in the Cases we here speak of or that yours is as just and natural a Conclusion as mine What follows here has been sufficiently consider'd already You say Faith is the Gift of God And I say This Gift comes ordinarily at least by hearing And if the Magistrate be both warranted and obliged to use convenient Penalties to bring his Subjects to hear the Gospel as I think I have shewn that he is then in doing so he cannot be said to use any other means to procure this Gift to any one than what God himself has prescribed If say you all the means God has appointed to make men hear and consider be Exhortation in season and out of season c. together with Prayer for them and the Example of Meekness and a good Life this is all ought to be done whether they will hear or whether they will forbear But if these be not all the Means God has appointed then these things are not all that ought to be done As to the first Spreaders of the Gospel it has already been shewn that God appointed other Means besides these for them to use to induce men to hear and consider And though when those extraordinary Means ceased these Means which you mention were the onely Means left to the Ministers of the Gospel yet that is no proof that the Magistrate when he became Christian could not lawfully use such Means as his Station enabled him to use when they became needful By what Means the Gospel at first made it self to be heard c. without the Assistance of any such Force of the Magistrate as I now think needful we have seen already But whatever Neglect or Aversion there is in any impartially and throughly to instruct the People I wish it amended and that the most effectual course may be taken for the amending it as much as you can do But I do not see how pertinent your Discourse about this matter is to the present Question For when you have made the best provision you can for the Instruction of the People I fear a great part of them will still need some moderate Penalties to bring them to hear and receive Instruction But this new Method of mine viz. the useing Force not instead of Reason and Arguments but onely to bring men to consider those Reasons and Arguments which are proper and sufficient to convince them but which without being forced they would not consider Which I say no body can deny but that indirectly and at a distance it does some service towards the bringing men to embrace the Truth This new Method of mine as you will needs call it though it be at least as old as St. Austin you tell me was never yet thought on by the most refined Persecutors Which may be very true for any thing I know Though I think it hath been both thought on and made use of too by all those Magistrates who having made all requisite provision for the instructing their People in the Truth have likewise required them under convenient Penalties to embrace it But you say however It is not altogether unlike the Plea made use of to excuse the late barbarous Usage of the Protestants in Fâ—ance designed to extirpate the Reform'd Religion there from being a Persecution for Religion For it seems the French King requires all his Subjects to come to Mass. Which they cannot lawfully do nor he lawfully require them to do But you go on Those who do not come to Mass are punish'd with a witness For what Not for their Religion say the Pleaders for that Discipline but for disobeying the King's Laws Whether those Pleaders plead in this manner or not I know not But if they do I am sure their Plea is ridiculous and carries nothing at all of an Excuse in it For if true Religion which is God's Law forbids men to go to Mass then those Laws can be no Laws which require men to go to Mass unless Man can make Laws against God's Laws And if those Laws be no Laws then 't is grosly improper to talk of disobeying them For where there is no Law there can be no. Transgression or Disobedience Nor can any Act of Obedience to God as all Acts which true Religion requires are be an Act of Disobedience to any body Now if those Laws by which the French King requires his Subjects to come to Mass be no Laws and consequently their refusing to come be not a disobeying his Laws 't is evident there is nothing left for which the Refusers can be said to be punish'd but onely their Religion which requires them to refuse But let us see the likeness of my new Method to this Plea So say you by your Rule the Dissenters from the true Religion for I speak of no other must be punish'd or if you please subjected to moderate Penalties such as shall make them uneasy but neither destroy noâ— undo them For what Not for their Religion say you So you tell me Sir But where I beseech you do I say that Dissenters from the true Religion are not to be punish'd for their Religion not for following the Light of their own Reason not for obeying the Dictates of their own Consciences No Sir but raâ—â—er for the contrary For the Light of their own Reason and â—he Dictates of their own Consciences if their Reason and Consciences were not perverted and abused would undoubtedly lead them to the same thing to which the Method we speak of is designeâ— to bring them You proceed For what then are they to be punish'd To make them say you examine the Religion they have embraced and the Religion they have rejected Right Sir That is indeed the
nevertheless undeniably true still that whoever neglects his Soul is more likely to be brought to take care of it if the Magistrate be obliged to do what lies in him to bring him to do it than if he be not Which is enough to shew that it is every man's true Interest that the care of his Soul should not be left to himself alone but that the Magistrate should be so far entrusted with it as I contend that he is Having thus Sir as I think consider'd all that is material in your Letter and a great deal more I now referr it if I may use your words to your self as well as to the judgement of the World Whether the Author of the Letter and your self in saying no Body has a Right or I in saying the Magistrate has a Right to use some degrees of Force in Matters of Religion have most Reason If you think the advantage lies on your side and shall do me the favour to let me know why you think so I shall consider what you say with all the care I can use and with a mind as well dâ—sposed to receive Information as your self can wish And if upon such a consideration of what is offer'd I find my self in an Error I shall freely acknowledge my Conviction with all thankfulness nor shall I be ashamed even publickly to retract my Error But if instead of satisfactory Reason I meet with nothing but Sophistry and unfair dealing I am apt to think I shall content my self with what I have already said being now sufficiently sensible that Cavils and Impertinencies are endless when a Man of Parts shall not disdain to make use of them As to the Request you leave with me That if ever I should write again about the means of bringing Souls to Salvation I would take care not to prejudice so good a Cause by ordering it so as to make it look as if I writ for a Party I do not see what need there was of iâ— having given you no occasion that I know to think or suspect that in answering the Author's Argument I writ for any Party but God and the Souls of men A Party which I hope I shall never desert Indeed if I had misrepresented the Author of the Letter and imposed upon him things which he never said if I had industriously set my self to make faults where there were none or had pretended to confute my Adversary by what I could not but know to be false or nothing to the purpose In short if I had dealt with that Author as I think it appears by this time his Defender has dealt with me then I confess you might well have suspected that I writ for some other Party But if there be nothing of all this in my Answer nor any thing unbecoming a man of Candour and Sincerity as you have not yet been able to shew that there is then your Suggestion is altogether groundless and uncharitable What Party you writ for when you writ your Letter I will not take upon me to say But I think I have too much occasion to leave this Request with you That if ever you write again about the Subject of our Debate you would take care to make it look as if you believed what you writ to be both pertinent and true And then as there will be less ground to suspect that you write for another Party So there will be this further advantage by it that a great deal less Paper will serve your turn Sir I am Your most humble Servant Feb. 21 1691. P. 1. A. p. 12 13 14. P. 6. P. 1. P. 2. A. p. 1. Iob. 17.9 15 20 c. Rom. 1.20 Isai. 44.18 19 20. and 46.8 Iob. 17.20 21. A. p. 4. A. p. 2. P. 2. A. p. 2. P. 2 3. P. 3. P. 3. P. 3. P. 3. P. 3. P. 4. P. 4. P. 4. P. 4. L. p. 9.23 24. P. 35. P. 4. P. 4 5. A. p. 2. see Mr. Edwards 's Gangroena P. 5. A. p. 3. P. â— L. p. 8. P. 6. A. p. 24 25 26. P. 6. P. 7. P. 7. A. p. 5. P. 7. P. 7. A. â— 10 11 12 15 16. P. 8. P. 7. P. 8. A. p. 13.14 P. 8 9. P. 9 10. P. 10. L. p. 3. P. 10. P. 10 11. A. p. 23. A. p. 5. P. 11. P. 12. P. â—2â— A. p. 5. P. 12. P. 13. P. 13. P. 13. 2. Thâ—s 2.10 11 12. P. 14. L. p. 8. A. p. 5. P. 14 P. 14 15. P. 15. P. 15. P. 15 16. P. 16. P. 17. P. 17. A. p. 6. P. 17. P. 18. P. 18. Iob 31.26 27 28. P. 18. P. 19. A p. 1â— P. 17. P. 19. Vid. Grot. ad Mâ—rci cap. 4. com 24. P. 19. Luke 12.14 Mat. 10.8 Vers. 15. Vid. Hen. Dodwâ—llâ— Dissertat in Irenaú Diss. 2. P. 19. A. p. 10. P. â—0 P 2â— â—1 Acts 4.13 P. 21. Iam. 1.20 A. p. 10. Vid. Mâ—t. 13.14 15. Act. 28.25 26 27. P. 21 22. A. p. 11. P. 22. P. 23. P. 24. A. p. 5. Vid. â—ug â—pist 4â— 50. P. 10. P. 25. P. 45. P. 46. A. â— 14 P. 41. P. 42. A. p. 26. P. 40. P. 4â— 44. P. 46. P. 46. P. 46. P. 46. A. p. 15. P. 47. Prov. 22.15 29.15 P. 47 48. P. 48. P. 48 49. A. p. 17. P. 50. P. 50. P. 51. L. â— 6 L. p. 6 7. P. 51. A. p. â—â— P. 50. P. 51 52. P. 52 53. A. p. 1â— P. 53. P. â—4 P. 54. Rom. 13.1 Vers. 2. Vers. 4. Eccl. Pol. lib. 1. â— 10 P. 55. A. p. 19. L. p. 7. P. 56. P. 56 57. P. 57 58. A. p. 21. P. 58 59. A. p. 20 21. L. p. 7. A p. 21 22. P. 5â— P. 60. P. â—0 P. 60 61 P. 61. P. 64. P. 64. P. 64 65. Julianus Imp. Epist. 43. edit Petav. P. 65. P. 66. A. p. 26 27. P. 67. P. 67. P. 68.
judge for another what is Right in Matters of Religion that it is repugnant and absurd to say that any man who punishes another to make him consider does at the same time take upon him to judge for that person in any matter whatsoever Thus you see with how little reason you say that by granting that the Magistrate misapplies his Power when he punishes those who have the Right on their side I grant all that the Author contends for Indeed if I had said that the Magistrate does therefore in that Case misapply his Power because whoever punishes any one in matters of Religion to make him consider takes upon him to judge for him what is Right in matters of Religion you had had some ground for what you say But that is no Reason of mine but aâ— Assumption or Supposition of yours and a very bad one too as I hope has been sufficiently shewn My following words which are the last you take notice of are these And all the hurt that comes to them by it is onely the suffering some tolerable Inconveniencies for their following the Light of their own Reason and the Dictates of their own Consciences which certainly is no such Mischief to Mankind aâ— to make it more eligible that there should be no such Poweâ— vested in the Magistrate but the care of every man's Soul should be left to himself alone as this Author demands it should be That is that every man should be suffer'd quietly and withouâ— the least molestation either to take no care at all of his Soul iâ— he be so pleas'd or in doing it to follow his own groundless Prejudices or unaccountable Humour or any crafty Seducer whom he may think fit to take for his Guide Which words you set down at large but instead of contradicting them or offering to shew that the Mischief spoken of is such as makes it more eligible c you onely demand Why should not the care of every man's Soul be left to himself rather than the Magistrateâ— Is the Magistrate like to be more concern'd for it Is the Magistrate like to take more care of it c. As if not to leave the care of every man's Soul to himself alone were as you express it afterwards to take the care of men's Souls from themselves Or as if to vest a Power in the Magistrate to procure as much as in him lies i.e. as far as it can be procured by convenient Penalties that men take such care of their Souls as they ought to do were to leave the care of their Souls to the Magistrate rather than to themselves Which no man but your self will imagine I acknowledge as freely as you can do that as every man is more concern'd than any man else can be so he is likewise more obliged to take care of his Soul and that no man can by any means be discharged of the care of his Soul which when all is done will never be saved but by his own care of it But do I contradict any thing of this when I say that the care of every man's Soul ought not to be left to himself alone or that it is the Interest of Mankind that the Magistrate be entrusted and obliged to take care as far as lies in him that no man neglect his own Soul I thought I confess that every man was in some sort charged with the care of his Neigbour's Soul But in your way of reasoning he that affirms this takes away the care of every man's Soul from himself and leaves it to his Neighbour rather than to himself But if this be plainly absurd as every one sees it is then so it must be likewise to say that he that vests such a Power as we here speak of in the Magistrate takes away the care of mens Souls from themselves and places it in the Magistrate rather than in themselves What trifling then is it to say here If you cannot lay your hand upon your Heart and say all this viz. that the Magistrate is like to be more concern'd for other men's Souls than themselves c. What then will be got by the change For 't is plain here is no such change as you would insinuate but the care of Souls which I assert to the Magistrate is so far from discharging any man of the care of his own Soul or lessening his obligation to it that it serves to no other purpose in the world but to bring men who otherwise would not to consider and do what the Interest of their Souls obliges them to 'T is therefore manifest that the thing here to be consider'd is not Whether the Magistrate be like to be more concern'd for other men's Souls or to take more care of them than themselves nor Whether he be commonly more careful of his own Soul than other men are of theirs nor Whether he be less exposed in matters of Religion to Prejudices Humours and crafty Seducers then other men nor yet Whether he be not more in danger to be in the wrong than other men in regard that he never meets with the great and onely Antidote of mine as you call it against Errâ—r which I here call Molestation But the Point upon which this matter turns is onely this Whether the Salvation of Souls be not better provided for if the Magistrate be obliged to procure as much as in him lies that every man take such care as he ought of his Soul than if he be not so obliged but the care of every man's Soul be left to himself alone Which certainly any man of common Sense may easily determine For as you will not I suppose deny but God has more amply provided for the Salvation of your own Soul by obliging your Neighbour as well as your self to take care of it though 't is possible your Neighbour may not be more concern'd for it than your self or may not be more careful of his own Soul than you are of yours or may be no less exposed in matters of Religion to Prejudices c. than you are Because if you are your self wanting to your own Soul it is more likely that you will be brought to take care of it if your Neighbour be obliged to admonish and exhort you to it than if he be not though it may fall out that he will not do what he is obliged to do in that case So I think it cannot be denied but the Salvation of all men's Souls is better provided for if besides the obligation which every man has to take care of his own Soul and that which every man's Neighbour has likewise to do it the Magistrate also be entrusted and obliged to see that no man neglect his Soul then it would be if every man were left to himself in this matter Because though we should admit that the Magistrate is not like to be or is not ordinarily more concern'd for other men's Souls than they themselves are c. it is