Selected quad for the lemma: ground_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
ground_n	believe_v	know_v	scripture_n	1,728	5	6.3627	4	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A54177	The new witnesses proved old hereticks, or, Information to the ignorant in which the doctrines of John Reeve and Lodowick Muggleton, which they stile, mysteries never before known, revealed, or heard of from the foundation of the world, are proved to be mostly ancient whimsies, blasphemies and heresies, from the evidence of Scripture, reason and several historians : also an account of some discoourse betwixt L.M. and my self, by which his blasphemous, ignorant and unsavory spirit is clearly and truly manifested, in love to the immortal souls of those few, who are concern'd in the belief of his impostures / by a living true witness to that one eternal way of God, revealed in the light of righteousness W.P.	Penn, William, 1644-1718.	1672 (1672)	Wing P1326; ESTC R15258	38,470	64

Creation of the World to this Day until now By Lodowick Muggleton c. Animadversion XII Who shall we believe of these two they both pretend the same Commission and yet Contradict but how can any Credit be given thereunto when though Reeve sayes he was awake at the receiving of it yet presently after tells us that he knew not whether he was an Immortal God or a Mortal Man what ground is there for any Belief of what Reeve himself was so far from a clear knowledge of as that he was not more unable to resolve whether he was an Immortal God or a Mortal Man then to know the Truth of all his Revelation O the willingness in men to be Blind Certainly if the Devil himself should as a Devil seek Proselytes some would follow him A few Additional Observations upon some Passages of John Reeve and Lodowick Muggleton in the before-cited Books THe Spirit of Faith and Love infinitely in the Glorious Person of God overfloweth as a Fountain continually with Revelation of New Heavenly Wisdom from whence flows New Joyes and Glory to Himself T.S.T. p. 46. Observation That unto which any thing may be added cannot be said to be Perfect and consequently cannot be God but be unto whom Wisdom is renewed wanted that Wisdom before he had it and consequently was not Perfect and therefore not the True God unto whom there is no Encrease of Wisdom Power or Strength but was and is and will be forever the same Unalterable Being Infinite in Wisdom Power and all other Divine Excellencies without any Diminution or Addition The Reason why Men's Bodies in Death or after Death do Rot or Stink in the Grave and come to Dust is because there was Sin in their Bodies whilst they Lived but on the contrary if Men had no Sin in their Natures or Bodies they might Live and Dye and Naturally Rise again by their own Power in their own Time T.S.T. p. 33. Observ O the Exceeding Folly and Blindness of this Sottish Man Why should Sin only cause the Body to Rot Stink and go to Dust Does not the Scripture and Reeve himself in his T.S.T. pag 44. give another Reason namely That what came from Dust is that which must go to Dust besides If the Flesh of Beasts is capable of Dying Rotting and going to Dust who never Sinn'd why should not man have Dyed and gone to Dust though he had never Sinn'd For though there is a vast Difference betwixt Men and Beasts in reference to their Souls and Bodies too so far as may concern the distinction of Kinds yet as to their being lyable to one and the same External Casualities and Sufferings by Hunger Thirst Sickness Death and Corruption no man can rationally contradict But above all this deserves our Observation That since Reeve is Dead Rotten and gone to Dust he was not cleansed from Sin as he is said to have pretended but by Reason of his Wickedness Death holds him in the Grave and consequently he cannot have been God's Last Witness whose Witnesses he hath alwayes cleansed from that against which they were to Witness And it is further evident That Sin is not the cause of Men's Bodies crumbling into Dust from Reeve's own words who saith The Most High God by his Vnsearchable Wisdom hath Decreed that all Light of Life in man shall become Dead Dust or Earth D.L.G. p. 17. So that God's Decree and not Man's Sin in his own sence must be the Reason of such Conversion and Corruption Therefore you may know that the Lord 's Reasoning with the Jews was only by his Prophets which were Rational Men like unto themselves which were sent to Convince those Stony-Hearted Jews by declaring the Glorious God and his Spiritual Truth unto them in the Ballance of their Own Reason D.L.G. p. 117. Observ It is remarkable with what unusual Nonsence and Contradiction he proceeds in his whole Affair since herein he Contradicts one of his main Foundation Principles namely That God hath not in his Glorious Spirit one Motion of Reason inherent nor yet the Elect of God as may be seen D.L.G. p. 18. T.S.T. p. 17. Whereas its manifest unto all men who would not deny themselves the use of their Understandings That none can properly reason of any Subject unto whom Reason cannot be or is not inherent so that if God did both Reason with the Jews and his Prophets were Rational Men then may we safely conclude That Reason is Inherent to God and his Elect Children and that Pure Reason is not inconsistent with or distinct from the Nature of Love and Faith not only because it is most Rational to believe in and love God most uprightly but because John Reeve himself that great Enemy to all sober Reason makes it the Ballance in which the Prophets Declaration of the Glorious God and his Spiritual Truth should be weighed Again I Declare from the Holy Spirit The Lord spake by Voice of words to his Three Commissioners which he hath sent unto the World yea I know God the Father spake unto Moses as a Man speaks unto his Friend and I know that God spake unto the Apostles in the Person of his Son because I know the Lord God spake unto me in the Person of the Holy Ghost only the two former Witnesses saw the Person of God in Part Visibly but I saw the Glory of his Person Invisibly or within me because I am the Messenger of the Holy Invisible Spirit T.S.T. p. 35. Observ Upon all this I make my following Observations as regular as this Irregular Confused Matter will permit me First Then I would fain know how he came to this Mighty Confidence in God's speaking to Moses for it is in no part of his Commission and Muggleton sayes Moses set the Cart before the Horse and they both of them despise the Scripture in comparison of their own Writings Secondly Though God might 〈…〉 the Person of his Son to his Apostles yet I utterly deny upon Reeves Principles that the Lord Jesus could speak unto him in the Person of the Holy Ghost because this would necessarily imply a Trinity of Persons 〈…〉 by him elsewhere absolutely denyed therefore the Lord Jesus could speak to him in no other Person then his own if at all Thirdly If God spake to J. Reeve by Voice of Words because he affirms him to have so spoken to Moses and the Apostles then may we plainly infer that God should as well have shewn his Person unto J.R. as he believes him to have done to Moses and the Apostles since if he did not decline to utter words to the Carnal Ear in this third Commission as is pretended any more then in the two former 〈◊〉 is no Reason in the World why John Reeve's Carnal Eye should not have had equal Priviledg with the former Commissioners in Visibly be holding Gods Person also but since he makes God so differ to in the one we ought the less to believe him in the other

God whom to know were Life Eternal but this to whom Jesus prayed whom say Reeve and Muggleton was Elias saith Christ Jesus was that only true God whom to know is Life Eternal 3. This God to whom Christ prayed that he would glorifie him was the same Eternal God with whom he had Glory before the World began but Elias was Two Thousand Years or more after the World was made instead of being before the World began and consequently Elias was not that God and Father unto whom the Lord God made his Supplications Object But Muggleton will tell me That Elias was enthroned with that God-like Power Glory Wisdom and Majesty that rendred him all that which was needful to make able to answer all those Petitions and what ever else was necessary Answ If the Majesty Power Wisdom and Glory of God were left with Elias I would fain know what God had to dye with for 't is his Power Glory and Divine Wisdom that makes him God If Elias had them God left himself destitute of what made him God for how can a man leave his Properties alive behind him that truly man him and yet be said to dye in Reeve and Muggleton ' s sence which is That all those Faculties And Properties dye with a man would one not rather say that such one does not dye because that which makes him a true man lives So that their Conceit is spoiled in the over-turning of this one thing for shew the impossibility of God's dying and yet leaving his Power Wisdom and Glory with Elias and the whole Fabrick filled with their many Chambers of Imagery will fall to the Ground for say they without a God's dying and becoming from Immortal Mortal and from Mortal Immortal again the whole Heaven and Earth would be out of order and no right Knowledge or Salvation can be procured or arrived at Much might be urged from many other Scriptures as that God raised him and that he is set down on the Right-Hand of the Most High but let this suffice Thirdly Nor is there any thing in the whole Scriptures of Truth that so much as incourages any to believe the Mortality of the Immortal God 1. Even from Everlasting to Everlasting thou art God Psal 90.2 He that was from Everlasting and is to Everlasting never ceaseth to be as that which dyes doth but the true God was from Everlasting and is to Everlasting therefore Reeve and Muggleton's Mortal God is not the true God or the true God never ceaseth to be 2. Hast thou not known hast thou not heard that the Everlasting God the Lord the Creator of the Ends of the Earth fainteth not Isa 40.28 He that could never faint could never dye because Death is more then a Degree beyond fainting though fainting be a Temporary with-drawing of Life but the true God and Creator of the Ends of the Earth never could faint therefore the true God could never dye 3. And one of the Malefactors said Lord remember me when thou comest into thy Kingdom And Jesus said Verily verily I say unto thee To day shalt thou be with me in Paradice Luke 23.42 43. If Christ the Author of all Truth spake Truth as most unquestionably he did then both himself and the Malefactor were in Paradice that day and consequently it was untterly impossible that they should both dye from all visible and invisible Life Sence Understanding and Enjoyment But I hope none are so impudent as to say Christ spake not the very simple Truth and so would have deceived the poor man and yet I know not how far Muggleton will go in this matter since he told me that Moses in his Discourse of the Creation set the Cart before the Horse and that if Paul were alive he would reprove him and so censure that holy Spirit by which he wrote Therefore it was not the Eternal Deity that suffered Death but that Body of outward Flesh subjected to all those natural Passions of Heat Cold Hunger Thirst Life and Death as ours are sin only excepted which the Eternal Infinite Creator had provided through which to manifest his everlasting Wisdom Councel and Mercy for the Redemption of Mankind That these three Branches of this sottish Opinion are all of them greatly repugnant to that Understanding God has afforded men to measure and distinguish things by I prove First It was impossible for God to transubstantiate himself from an Immortal Deity to a mortal Man 1. It must suppose God's begetting himself which is absurd and impossible since being begotten supposeth him to have had a Beginning that gave Beginning to all and to beget supposeth him to have been before he was begotten and so before he was 2. Such as is the Begetter such must the Begotten be We see Men get Men Horses Horses Fish Fish and every Seed has its own Body as say Reeve and Muggleton then by good consequence the Immortal God must have begotten himself an Immortal God one that could not dye by the Hand or Cruelty of his own Creature 3. It is as impossible for God to become a Creature or to dissolve his own Infinite Immortal Eternal Nature into a Finite Mortal Created or Generated Nature as for a Mortal Created Nature to be refined preferred and transmuted into an Infinite Immortal Creating Nature In short It is as impossible for God as God to become a dying Man as for a dying man to be changed into an Immortal Eternal God They are reciprocally impossible and Blasphemous Secondly It is absurd and Untrue affirm that Elias was God's Deputy and he to whom Christ prayed when in that Body of FLESH 1. He that is Infinite is every where and circumscribed to no particular place but Scripture Reason and Reeve and Muggleton yet they are seldom of one mind own and declare the Infiniteness of God therefore God is every where and if every where then not excluded Heaven the Habitation of his Throne and consequently Elias was not God's Deputy neither was it any wayes needful that he should be 2. That which in any sence may be said so want is not God who is all in all to himself but who needed a Deputy neither was Omnipresent nor Almighty and therefore not the only True God 3. Either Christ did not stand in need when on Earth or he did if not then he was not sincere in his Supplications if he did then the Omnipotency was with Elias he that supplies Wants is greater then he that is supplyed and consequently he that cryed was not that Everlasting God and Father but Elias 4. Elias was not so considerable as Moses who was the first Grand Commissioner of God's Dispensations to the Sons of men as Reeve and Muggleton affirm why then should Elias be preferred to Moses a Meek Man Israel's Leader and who said of Christ himself That a Prophet like unto me shall the Lord your God raise up unto you him shall you hear in all things then not Reeve and Muggleton in any

Reverence and Obedience which were due to Him and yet that they were not delighted to retain the Most High in their Knowledge 3. That this should beget an utter and perpetual Abhorrence in us of all such Impostures do but call to mind what an Overthrow this gives to all those Famous Prophecies of God's Tabernacling in His People His Teaching them pouring out His Spirit upon them and of their beholding Him Face to Face since in this one Conceit all that believe it are brought under the Verge of these men's Imaginations without the least Convincing Ground for any such Belief unless the Fear of their Insolent Curse 4. To Conclude if his Commission was after a Visible External Manner like unto Moses as he affirms He must needs have Visible and External Miracles to confirm such a Visible and External Commission For to deny Visible Miracles to a Visible Commission is to deny that Commission and to pretend Invisible Ones is Improper Vnnatural and Vntrue My Story is this and not Unknown to some of the Creditors of this Counterfeit Commission A Considerable Commander of the English Army in Ireland and but too stiff against Lay Preachers esteemed Presbyterian hearing in his Bed a still Voice Requiring Him to go Preach the Gospel to the Indians was so much Amaz'd that he question'd if he were not Asleep as Reeve's did whether He was an Immortal God or a Mortal Man and finding himself Awake though he could rather have wisht it but a Dream it greatly Terrified him to leave his Family Command and Station to go Preach the Gospel who scarcely ever adventur'd to Preach whatever he did to Pray in all his Life was Matter of much Disquiet to him till in the end he rather inclin'd to incur the Curse that followed his Disobedience then to leave his wonted Course of Life and take up one so difficult to him in which he was so Unable as well as Unwilling to acquit himself But it ended not so for I think the next Night or Morning or in a little time after the same Voice came to him with the same Command which increased his Perplexity but still as I was inform'd he continued averse from such a Voyage and Enterprize till the Third Time of his being thus Allarum'd and then as the Story went he gave for ought I know as Freely up to Preach to the Indians as Reeve did to go to Muggleton and J. Robbins c. and I am strongly of the mind the Authority may have been much alike for it proved in the End to be the Abuse of some of his Companions in a way of Vnjustifiable Waggery and Merriment through a Trunk or some such hollow thing placed with its Mouth or Muzzle near the Commander's Bed What shall we say then of Reeve's Voice of words A Man swelled with Conceits more ready and deserving to have been Abused then the Persons concerned in this Story and concerning whom Muggleton told me He thought Him Hot-brain'd and Distemper'd in his Head and that he had told him so a thing not hardly to be credited by such as read his Folly Certainly God never gave a Commission yet in that Way wherein man's Wit or Malice could Equal it And I would know what one Extraordinary Circumstance attended the giving of this Commission to Reeve that may Groundedly Engage any to the Belief of it But indeed it was notably done of Him to pretend an Authority of which he was the sole Judge and Witness and a Power to Curse all such as Refus'd his Testimony without his rendering a Reason for the Hope that was in him Never did the Devil more Befool himself nor any of Mankind then in his Divulging and their Believing of these Sottish Blasphemies THE END Reader I Am sorry I have so often occasion to intreat thy Kindness not to impute the Errors of the Press to the Author of the Discourse as well as to desire thy Pains and Patience to correct them but when thou seest how many greater are refuted by it I hope it will not trouble thee to have answered my Request Page Line Errors Corrected 4 18 have hath   29 Lucifian Lucifrian 5 7 infability infalibility   22 Phantisms Phantasms 8 31 a the 11 16 disposure discomposure 16 11 T.S.T. P. 42   25 the their 18 13 T.S.T. p. 43 44. 22 22 corporical corporial 23 2 it her   16 rise rife   23 T.S.T. p. 23 to 30. 25 12 Mat. 11.25 26 2 God Jesus 31 3 opened openly   17 D.L.G. p. 72 73 74.   24 are be 33 21 that blot it out 35 5 chap. 17. and chap. 17. read and 38 12 fathom'd fashion'd 39 7 some no 42 2 to blot it out 43 17 indue indued 46 3 which the which is the 57 27 differ to to differ about Anno 200. 1472. years since