Selected quad for the lemma: ground_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
ground_n	believe_v	faith_n	work_n	1,563	5	6.1759	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A76258	Certamen religiosum or, a conference between His late Majestie Charles King of England, and Henry late Marquess and Earl of Worcester, concerning religion; at His Majesties being at Raglan Castle, 1646. Wherein the maine differences (now in controversie) between the Papists and the Protestants is no lesse briefly then accuratly discusss'd and bandied. Now published for the worlds satisfaction of His Majesties constant affection to the Protestant religion. By Tho: Baylie Doctor in Divinity and Sub-Deane of Wels.	Bayly, Thomas, d. 1657?; Charles I, King of England, 1600-1649.; Worcester, Henry Somerset, Marquis of, 1577-1646.	1649 (1649)	Wing B1506; Thomason E1355_1; ESTC R209153	85,962	251

Antichrist Babylon and all the spitefull and vile names that can be imagined they forget that saying of the Apostle St. James If any man among you seeme to be religious bridleth not his tongue but deceiveth his own heart that mans Religion is in vaine Pure Religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this to visit the fatherlesse and widows in their affliction and to keep himself unspotted from the world What should I say more the Scriptures are made a nose of wax for every bold hand to wring it which way he pleaseth they are rejected by private men by whole books The Articles of our Creed are said not to be of the Apostle framing the commandments not belonging to Christians impossible to be kept the Sacraments denied Charity not onely grown cold but quite starved and they will be sav'd by meanes quite contrary to what the Gospel which they seeme to profess sets down viz. by Faith without good works onely believe that 's enough where as the holy Apostle Saint James tells us that faith profiteth nothing without good works Here the Marquess was going on and His Majestie interrupted him King My Lord you let a flood-gate of Arguments out against my naked breast yet it doth not bear me any thing backwards you have spoken a great many things that no way concerns Us but such as we find fault with as much as you and other things to which I could easily give answer If I could take but some of that time and leasure that you have taken to compose your Arguments It is not onely the Picture of our Saviour but the Pictures of Saints which you both worship and adore and maintaine it to be lawfull and not onely so but the Picture of God the Father like an old man and many other things which I forbear because I fear you have done your self more hurt then me good in depriving your self of the rest to which you are accustomed for whilst our Arguments do multiplie our time lessons to that of Saint James where it is said that faith profiteth nothing without good works I hope the Doctor here can tell you that Saint Paul saith that we are justified by Faith and not by the works of the Law Marq. Sir I believe the Doctor will neither tell Your Majestie nor me that Faith can justifie without works King That question the Doctor can soon decide what say you to it Doctor you must speak now Doctor If it may please Your Majestie it would be as great a disobedience to hold my peace now I am commanded to speak as it would have been a presumption in me to speak before I was commanded I am so far from thinking that either Faith without good works or that good works without Faith can justifie that I cannot Believe that there is such a thing as either No more then I can imagine that there may be a tree bearing fruit without a root or that the Sun can be up before it be day or that a fire can have no heat for although it be possible that a man may do some good without Faith yet he cannot do good works without it for though we may naturally incline to some goodnesse as flowers and plants naturally grow to perfection Yet this good cannot be said to be wrought by us but by the hand of Faith and Faith her self where she is truly so can no more stand still then can the Sun in the Firmament or refuse to let her hight so shine before men that they may see her good works then the same Sun can appear in the same Firmament and dart no beams And whilst Faith and good works strive for the proprietie of Justification I do believe they both exclude a third which hath more right to our Justification then either For that which we call Justification by Faith is not properly Justification but onely an apprehension of it as that vvhich we call Justification by good works is not properly Justification but onely a Declaration of it to be so exempli gratia I receive a pardon my hand that receiv's it doth not justifie 't is put in execution and read in open Court all this did not procure it me Doubtless there is a reward for the righteous doubtless there is a God that judgeth the Earth wherefore upon this ground of belief I work out my Salvation as well as I can and do all the good that lies in my power I do good works Doubtless this man hath some reason for what he doth it is because he hath store of Faith which Believes there is a God and that that God will accept of his endeavours wherefore to him alone who hath given us Faith and hath wrought all our good vvorks in us can vve properly attribute the tearme of Justification Justificatio apprehensiva vve may conceive and beare in our hearts Justificatio declarativa vve may shevv vvith our hands but Justificatio Effectiva proper and effectuall Justification none can lay claim unto but Christ alone that as our sins vvere imputed unto Christ so his righteousness might be ours by imputation King Doctor I thank you in this point I believe you have reconciled us both Doctor May it please Your Majestie if the venome vvere taken out there is no vvound in the Churches body but might soon be healed Marq. Hereat the Marquess somewhat earnestly cried Hould Sir You have said well in one respect but there are two wayes of Justification in us and two without us Christ is a cause of Justification by his grace and merits without us and so we are justified by baptisme and we are justified by the gifts of God in us viz. Faith Hope and Charitity Whereupon the King spake as quickly King But my Lord both Justifications come from Christ according to your own saying that without us by his grace and merit that within us by his gifts and favour therefore Christ is all in all in the matter of Justification therefore though there were a thousand wayes and meanes to our Justification yet th●re is but one effectuall cause and that is Christ Marq. How is it then that we are called by the Apostle Cooperarii Christo Fellow-workers together with Christ King The Doctor hath told you how already If you lie wallowing in sin and Christ helps you out your reaching of him your hand is a working together with Christ Yet for all that it cannot be said that you helped your self out of the ditch for then there had been no need of Christ Your apprehending the succour that came unto you no way attributes the God have mercie to your self no more then the declaring your self to be alive by action is the cause of setting you upon your legg's so that we may divide this threefold Justification as Peter divided his three Tabernacles here is one for Moses and one for Elias I pray let us have one for Christ and let that be the chiefe Marq. And Reason good King I

should be so much offended at any such thing for bread and wine do signifie Christ crucified I appeale to common reason if a dead body doth not represent a passion as nuch as if we saw the bloud lie by it If you grant the Churches Power in other matters and rest satisfie therein why do you boggle at this especially when any Priest where wine is to be had if you desire it he will give it you But if upon every mans call the Church should fall to reforming upon every seeming fault which may be but supposed to be found the people would never stop untill they had made such a through Reformation in all parts as they have done in the greatest part of Germany where there is not a man to preach or hear the Gospel to eat the bread or drink the wine you never pickt so mony holes in our Coates as this licentiousness hath done in yours For our seven Sacraments she that called the Articles of our Faith 12 the Beatitudes 8 the Graces 3 the Virtues 4 called these 7 might have called them 17 if she had thought it meet A Sacrament is nothing else but what is done with a holy mind and why Sacrament either in Name or Number should be confind to Christs onely Institution I see no cause for it If I can prove that God did institute such a thing in Paradise as he did marriage shall not I call that a Sacrament as well as what was instituted by Christ when he was upon the Earth If Christ institutes the Order of giving receiving the holy Ghost shall not I call this the Sacrament of Orders If Christ injoyns us all repentance shall we not say repentance is a Sacrament If Christ blesseth little children and saith Suffer them to come unto me and forbid them not shall we not say that such Confirmation is a Sacrament Truly I do not understand their meaning They have taken away five which five either by God or Christ or the holy Ghost who are all one were instituted and yet they say they are not Sacraments because they were not instituted by Christ And the two that are left viz. baptisme and the Lords Supper for the first you hold it necessary to Salvation and for the second you do not admit the reall presence so that of the two remaining you have taken away the necessitie of the one and the reality of the other so fare well all Now for Purgatory I do believe we have as good ground for it out of this place of Scripture viz. He shall be purged yet so as if it were by fire as you can prove a Hell out of this place of Scripture He shall be cast into utter darkness and into the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone where shall be weeping and knatching of teeth Neither can you make more exceptions to our inference out of this place of Scripture to prove Purgatory then the Atheist if wits may be permitted to roame in such things as these once setled and believed generally will find ground enough to quarrell at your burning lake and the vaine Philosopher Contradictions enough in the description of the effects of those hellish Torments viz. weeping and knashing of teeth the one having its procedure from heat the other from cold which are meer Contradictions and therefore fabulous take heed we do not take away Hell in removing of Purgatory You see not how your laughing at Purgatory hath caused such laughing at Hell and Devils untill at last you shall see them bid the Heavens come down and plucke the Almightie out of his Throne If a Text of Scripture with the Churches Exposition be not sufficient for a man to rest both his Science Conscience upon I know not where it will find a resting place it may shoot at Random but never take so right an ayme and for the silver hooke you talk'd of I do not justifie the abuse of any I know there is a great difference between the Court of Rome and the Church of Rome and if these Errours were in the Church it self yet the tares must not be hastily pluckt out of the field of the Church least the wheat be pluckt up with it Now for our praying to Saints there is no body that prayes to any Saints otherwise then as we on earth desire the benefit of one anothers prayers We do not believe that they can help us of themselves or that they have power to forgive sin but we believe that they are nearer to God his favour more dear unto him and therefore we believe that he will hear them with or for us sooner then he will hear us when we pray upon our own account as we desire the prayers of some good and holy man whom we believe to be so hoping it will be a benefit unto us all that can be said against it is that they do not hear us I will not trouble Your Majestie with the Schoolmens Speculum Creatoris but I shall desire to be plaine when there is joy in heaven over every sinner that repenteth do you think that the Saints which are there are ignorant of the occasion of that joy or do they rejoyce at they know not what If the Saints in heaven do crie how long Lord how long holy and just dost thou not avenge our bloud upon them which dwell upon the earth if they know that their bloud is not yet avenged do they not know when a sinner is converted and if they know the time of conversion do they not know the time of prayer If Abraham knew that there were such men as Moses and the Prophets who was dead so many hundreds of years before their time can we say that they are ignorant think ye that those ministring Angels who are called Intelligencers give them no intelligences or that they gather nothing of intelligence by looking him in the face who is the fullness of knowledge and to all these the practise and opinion of so Catholick a Church God can onely forgive sins Christ can onely mediat but Saints whether in heaven or on the earth may intercede for one another Lastly for our worshipping of Images confounded be all they that worshipped them for me God is onely worthy to be worshipped but if I kneel before the Picture of my Saviour I worship him kneeling before his Picture the worship is in the heart and not in the knee and where the true God is in the intention there can be no idolatrie O Sir Christian Religion is not a Protestation but a Gospel it would better consist with unity then opposition we hold it a peece of popery to knocke our own breasts with the fists of constitution whilst we hold it most Evangelicall to knocke at our neighbours with a Counstables staff a pious care in a mother Church labours to educate her own daughter and having fed her at her own breasts all the gratitude she returns her mother is to call her whore