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A87595 A sober word to a serious people: or, A moderate discourse respecting as well the Seekers, (so called) as the present churches. Wherein the difference between them touching visible administrations, is discovered and discussed: and may serve as a plea for the nations ministery. / By a lover of truth and peace. Jackson, John. 1651 (1651) Wing J78A; ESTC R202618 52,789 71

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promised Quest That from the rising of the Sun to the going down of the same his Name shall be great among the Gentiles Mal. 1.11 How shall this Name of Christ be proclaimed and made great among the Gentiles in this desolate and lost condition according to Rom. 10. Answ This Question seems to be like Isaac's Question to his Answ Father My Father where is the Lamb for the Sacrifice and the Answer may be the same that his was to his Son God will provide himself a Lamb. I would intreate you to read these Scriptures Mich. 2.7 10. Mich. 3.5 6 7. Mich. 4. the whole Chapter and that passage mentioned in Rom. 10.15 being compared with Isa 52.7 doth evidently declare that there is yet a further sending forth of the Messengers of Peace when the Sion of God shall awake and put on strength and Jerusalem the holy City shall put on beautiful garments Read Isa 52.1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 and judge whether this be not a Gospel-Prophecie part whereof is yet unfulfilled And whether this be not the Apostles scope in the tenth of the Romans vers 14 15 and the whole eleventh Chapter to the Romans Onely while you say How shall this be The wisdome of Jehovah can bring this about Zeph. 3.8 9 10 12 13 14. When the time of the Lord is come wherein that great Angel shall lighten the earth with his glory Rev 18.1 and wherein the Angel shall flie in the midst of Heaven having the ancient Gospel to preach to them that dwell on the earth to every nation kindred and tongue and People Rev. 14.6 When the Lord of the Harvest seeing the fields white to the Harvest shall thrust forth labourers into his Harvest when his Angels or Messengers shall be sent forth to gather his elect from the four winds from one end of Heaven to the other The zeal of the Lord of Hosts shall perform this though we know not how Object Object If there be not a Ministery in the World What will become of the Faith of all such as believe in the Lord Jesus differenced and dishinguished under those several professions and known by those several appellations whereby men have named them Answ seeing the Scripture witnesseth that men cannot believe without a Preacher Rom. 10.41 Answ This Objection grounds it self upon an absurdity that will seem to follow upon the premises viz. If what hath been alleadged be true touching the Ministery How can this Scripture be true also which saith How can they believe on him of whom they have not heard And how shall they hear without a Preacher To solve which seeming-contradiction I desire the Reader to consider who that relative word they must be applied to And consequently what is the scope of the Apostles argument in this place For the understanding of which I conceive it will be necessary to read the ninth tenth and eleventh Chapters together and they will appear to be one continued Discourse or Argument whereby the Apostle Paul doth hold forth the state of the Jewes whom he calls his brethren his kinsmen according to the flesh Rom. 9.3 Now concerning these he begins all the three Chapters and shewes both their priviledges which they had by the Law Chap. 9.4 5. Their rejection through their non-submission to the righteousness of God Chap. 10.3 Their restitution when the fulness of the Gentiles is come in Chap. 11.25 to fulfil the Mystery of this dispensation of God by the appearing of the deliverer who shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob according to his Covenant Vers 25 26 27. Isa 59.20 21. These are that they which are mentioned in the 1 2 3 and 14 Verses of the tenth Chapter to the Romans touching whom the Apostle thus reasons Brethren my hearts desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they might be saved For I hear them record c. Object But blessed Apostle Object what ground of Faith is there in this prayer considering how they are rejected Answ The Scripture hath said Whosoever believeth in him Answ shall not be ashamed for there is no difference between the Iew and the Greek for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him For whosoever shall call upon the Name of the Lord shall be saved Therefore they viz. the Jews if they call upon the Name of the Lord they shall be saved Onely the Question is How they shall call upon him in whom they have not believed and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard and how shall they hear without out a Preacher and how shall they Preach except they be sent Therefore till there be a sending forth of Messengers even to the Jews quatenus Jews as well as there hath been to the Gentiles quâ such no wonder if they believe not For how can they believe in him of whom they have not heard and how can they hear without a Preacher and how can they Preach except they be sent Object Object But they have heard though they have not obeyed as appears Answ Rom. 10.16 18 21. Answ This may not be denied for Christ was sent first to the lost sheep of the house of Israel And he accordingly came unto his own and his own received him not But the consideration hereof makes the Mystery the greater Once God chose the family of Abraham before all the families of the earth and in Judah was God known and his Name famous in Israel He dealt not so with any other nation neither had they the knowledge of his Law Though afterwards when the fulness of time was come and the wall of partition broken down by the appearing of our Lord Jesus then the Mystery of Christ which in other ages was not made manifest was revealed to his holy Apostles and Prophets Eph. 3.5 6 by the Spirit which Mystery was That the Gentiles should be fellow-heirs and of the same body and partakers of his promise in Christ by the Gospel And the Jewes to whom the Gospel first was preached having put it from them Act. 13. ult and reckoned themselves unworthy of that salvation became the onely nation of all the world who were by the just hand of God concluded under blindness and hardness in part and so are to continue such a proportion of time as was fore-appointed and decreed Rom. 10.8 9 10 25. At the expiration and determination of which time there is to be a revelation of the Mystery of their breaking off and ingrafting in again Rom. 11 2● and that to be done when the deliverer shall come out of Sion and shall turn away ungodliness from Iacob For as in times past the Gentiles believed not having not that opportunity of the knowledge of God as the Jews had yet at length obtained mercy through their unbelief Even so have these also now not believed that through their mercy they might obtain mercy Object But how is
A SOBER WORD To A SERIOUS PEOPLE Or A MODERATE DISCOURSE RESPECTING As well The SEEKERS so called As The Present Churches Wherein the Difference between them touching Visible Administrations is Discovered and Discussed And may serve as A Plea for the Nations Ministery By a lover of Truth and Peace PSAL. 22.30 A seed shall serve him it shall be counted to the Lord for a generation 24. 6. This is the generation of them that seek him that seek thy face O Jacob. 14 7. Oh that the salvation of Israel were come out of Sion When the Lord bringeth back the capivity of his people Jacob shall rejoyce and Israel shall be glad London Printed by J. Cottrel for James Noell in Foster-line and are to be fold by Giles Calvert at the black Spread-Eagle neer the West-end of Pauls 1651. To the Reader COURTEOUS READER THou art here presented with a brief Discourse touching a Subject which hath not wherewith to commend it self and therefore subjects it self to thy Ingenuity and Candor in its perusal if it be thought by thee worthy thereof To invite or court thee thereunto would be very unbeseeming thee to whom it 's directed considering thee both sober and serious and to me it 's no less unsutable if thou knewest my Genius Thou art therfore left free either to entertain it or pass it by as thou pleasest and it 's as freely submitted to thy Censure But considering it's possible that some may bestow time upon it for their sakes I have been prevailed with to say a little by way of Preface touching the nature and end thereof both which when thou clearly understandest thou wilt with the less prejudice attempt the reading and examining of it when it shall be freed in thy judgement from such aspersions as some may rashly yet too plentifully bestow upon it Be thou therefore hereby assured that thou art not troubled with this Discourse out of any designe either to weaken thy present confidence which thou hast in God or to startle thee touching thy present Practice in things pertaining to God nor out of any Irreligious Atheistical or Self-ended interest to tempt thee to cast off all Ordinances of Worship and Service of God which thou at present art perswaded thou oughtst to be found exercised in but to give thee an account touching a Sort of people which some are pleased to call SEEKERS of whom several men in several books have spoken several things shewing the dangerousness of their Opinion and the dreadfulness of its tendency and under that term of Seekers comprehend all those which differ from themselves touching the present exercise of Visible Administrations How great their mistake hath been and is thou mayst finde herein the rectifying whereof is one End of this Work by laying down somewhat positively touching what they believe and practise and somewhat privatively touching such things as they see not ground to practise These are reduced and abridged under two Heads The Present Churches and Present Ministery and compared with the Primitive Patterns of each as they are laid down in the Scriptures and accordingly applied with some Considerations had touching certain Objections depending thereupon Under which general Heads thou hast the sum of what thou wilt here be troubled with and perhaps thou mayst judge it worthy thy trouble As touching the End to give thee some account as well what it is as what it is not be pleased to know that having observed many persons of an enquiring spirit unsatisfied with their present Practice as not seeing sufficient ground for it yet impatient and restless in their spirits have made out after this people so distinguished as before but finding them very inconsiderable both for quantity and quality and nothing extant which in any measure might be a stay to them by laying a ground for their dependance further waiting upon God have waxed weary and almost fainted in their minds and at the best have returned to that condition from whence at first they thought themselves happie they were escaped using such expressions as these Come let us go back to Egypt for Bread it 's better take it at the mouth of Ravens then starve Which expressions have been very sadly uttered by some mean while the God which had led them by the hand out of Egypt and brought them thorow the Red-sea cannot be trusted nor depended on nor waited for while they are in the wilderness These Considerations on their part have moved me to bethink me of my duty to my God and whether I were not obliged in thankfulness to him who had betrusted me with the knowledge of his pleasure in any measure touching this particular to impart it to others that they might also have the opportunity of considering what hath been a stay to my own spirit and perhaps may prove forcible to prevent from further straying such who are upon rhe like enquiry I have likewise observed how much it hath offended and grieved divers good persons who are themselves under the practice and exercise of such Administrations as this Discourse treats of because the SEEKER'S as they are called do not joyn issue in the practise thereof expressing this offence and trouble of theirs by writing and otherwise which I have great cause to hope will by this occasion be abated or at least moderated when they shall perceive that there is a reason to be rendered for that which they have judged unreasonable In the consideration of which I cannot but think it's possible that Thou Reader mayst finde thy self to have drunk too deep of the cup of my former and thy present Errour in that both thou and I have taken up our Practices upon other mens Principles or at least upon too easie too slight a search touching which if they were to begin again we should judge it necessary to put a pause and to make more diligent enquiry after the minde of God in the Scriptures To which some persons are reduced and that in mercy searching and seeking after those things now which long since they presumed they had attained To the exercise whereof thou art also invited viz. to prove thy own works that so thy rejoycing may be in thy self and not in another And if in examining this Work thou findest many things weak and amiss I shall not wonder at it I pretend not to Perfection Put thy Character upon them let them pass for dross and write them mine But if thou findest Gold I mean Truth that will abide the fire of trial say that 's God's 't is none of mine and let not that pass I expect thy Censure I shall hearken for it and I hope thy Reproofs shall be as welcome as the smiting of the righteous was to David Psal 141.5 and for ought thou knowest if thou sendest me back to the searching of the Scriptures which must be the Standard Rule of trial I may truly be enabled to say It shall be a kindness to me an excellent oil
which shal not break my head But if thou shalt be found reproaching in stead of reproving and wounding in stead of smiting I hope my God will teach me to say as he did also vers 3. Set a watch O Lord before my mouth and keep the door of my lips Reader thou art desired to correct these Errata with thy Pen. Pag. 2. lin 37. for 26. 5 read 46. 5. p. ibid. l. 17. adde the. p. 5. l. 1. for these read the. p. 7. l. 31. for certain numbers read a certain number p. 20. l. 12. for cast r. cost p. 25. l. 9. for 12. 8. r. 21. 8. p. ibid. l. 33. for Translations r. Translators p. 33. l. 2. for person r. persons p. 36. l. 7. for had r. was p. 39. l. 12. adde of p. 47. l. 24. for 2 Cor. 4.5 r. 1 Cor. 2.4 5. p. 48. l. 15 for particular r. peculiar p. 57. l. 25. for 10. 25. r. 11. 25. A SOBER WORD TO A SERIOUS PEOPLE AMongst those many Discourses which have offered themselves to Publike View in these discoursing Times there have not been wanting several that have asserted the Saints priviledges in their enjoyment of Ordinances Some Moderately Others more Smartly and with less Moderation though with no less Confidence The Entertainment these Discourses have met with I am apt to believe hath been as various That which I have observed in them is that they have frequently taken notice of some that differ from them calling them Seekers Touching whom many things are said by way of Answer to several Objections which are said to be theirs though it be not so demonstrable from any thing yet extant which they if any such there be have owned as theirs Nevertheless in the serious perusal of those very Objections and their several Answers which are exhibited to Publike view there doth seem to lie something not so clear on the Answerers part as is imagined and as were to be wished To shew in all things where this Shortness doth seem at least to lie would require more time then is alotted to me in respect of other employments I shall therefore abbreviate many things and as briefly as I can shall endeavour to shew where I have observed the main difference to be placed The Seekers I do finde are charged with this That they are a people who deny all Ordinances and the Evil of that Evil is laid down and aggravated by several Persons in several Books and in the last most of all These are again distinguished into such as are against all Ordinances or that see not sufficient ground for the present practice of Ordinances or such as are above and beyond Ordinances For the former those which are against i. e. contrary to them they are very improperly called Seekers For the later they which are above and beyond them these are so far from Seeking that they are rather Possessors Enjoyers and Attainers then Seekers properly so called The third sort are such as not seeing a sufficient ground for the practice of Ordinances are said to seek them And is it not their Mercy that most High should give them a heart to seek him for wisdom and counsel and directions touching those things they see not sufficient ground for the present practise of And is it not according to the Apostle's Rule If any man want wisdom he should ask or seek it of God who giveth liberally and upbraideth not In a good sence it is a good thing to be a Seeker In a bad sence it 's not to be applied to them which seek the Lord in sincerity for wisdom how to walk before him Of this sort of Persons and this sort of Seeking this present Discourse onely treats And touching them it may be observed that these Seekers so called are not alike unsatisfied concerning the practise of all Ordinances There are onely some wherein they see not sufficient ground for their present practise There are others which they themselves do practise Viz. First They believe that it is an appointment from the Lord Jesus and that wherein they ought to excercise themselves in searching the Testimonies of the Holy Writings of Truth concerning the minde of God touching things to be believed and practised So did the Eunuch and God met him therein Act. 8.28 to the 25. according to Isa 46.5 Secondly They judge the same touching Prayer and distributing to the necessity of those that want according to Act. 10.1 2 c. hoping to enjoy God both in the former and latter duties and Ordinances of his This is not onely practised personally and privately but as occasion offers by coming together into some place on the First-dayes and at other times as their hearts are drawn forth and opportunity is offered Their ends in so doing and grounds for so doing are these First That they may be Instruments in the hand of the Lord to stir up the grace of God in one another by mutual conference and communication of experiences according to Mal. 3.16 Heb. 10.22 23 24 25. Secondly That they may poure out their complaints to the God and Father of Spirits for the further revelation of himself according to Act. 1.4 16 17 20. Ezek. 36.37 Jam. 5.6 Thridly That they may keep alive and hold out in their measure their witness and testimony against the false and waite for the manifestation of the true Lord Jesus in his pure Ordinances of Ministery and Worship according to Daniel 3.16 17 18. Dan. 6.10 Psal 137 thorowout Expressing their deep sence of the want of what they enjoy not behaving themselves as persons having neither power or gift to go one before another by way of Eminency or Authority but as Sheep unfolded and as Souldiers unrallied waiting for a time of gathering and restitution to the knowledge of what as yet they understand not and the attainment of this is the end of their seeking and to this they stirre up and provoke one another and herein they desire to be found hoping firmely to the end according to the first of Pet. 1.13 Owning nor acknowledging no other visibe Teacher but the Word and Works of God on whom they wait for the Grace which is to be brought at the Revelation of Jesus Christ By which it doth appear that though they come not up to the full of what others say they enjoy in respect of Ministery and Worship yet they are not against them or beyond or above them But comparing such as say they are and have such by the Scriptures of Truth declare themselves to be desirers though not discerners of them Such who though they cannot say they sing the Songs of Sion yet do hang their Harpes upon the Willowes and weep at the remembrance of her to see how like a Plowed field she lies and how her Stones lie covered over with Rubbish Those other Ordinances wherein they do not see sufficient ground for their Practice may be comprehended in these two The present Churches and the present Ministery
These two were the Grand and Capital and Comprehensive Institutions and appointments of the Lord Jesus unto which He gave gifts for the perfecting of the Saints But whether the present Ministery and the present Churches be those Ordinances of His which He then instituted and appointed and not rather something like them or instead of them is the matter in Question The persons called by the name of Seekers having compared them with the Word of God and not finding them to conform thereunto dare not joyne issue in the present practice of them which of it self is ground sufficient yet that it may appear that this ground and reason is not without Reason somewhat is to be added by way of Demonstration and Evidence There have not been wanting those which have taken paines to prove the Affirmative and to reprove the Negative sharply It 's necessary to consider of those proofes seriously and endeavour to apply those reproofes as profitably as may be to state the matter in question as fairely and truely as the present Capacity is abilitated and can extend to First I finde it 's most generally taken for granted that Disciples quâ Disciples or as others say Disciples able to preach the Gospel have power and are commanded to Baptize Matth. 28.19 and upon this ground it 's practised and this is all the Ministery that I can finde is acknowledged by some Secondly that Believers may incorporate themselves and become a Church is by others affirmed from Joh. 1.12 That being made sons by believing they have power to become the sons of God in state which I suppose is meant that Believers have power to estate themselves into visible Sonship or else I know not what to make of the distinction Others express the same thing with other words much different proving a Church and Ministery upon other Principles and Grounds From all which as I differ in the Matter so I shall in the Method desiring to lay down something Positively from these Scriptures submitting to the judgement and censure thereof judging it most profitable rather then to take notice of the several Objections I have seen with the Answers to them Knowing well that Truth is truely evidencing and convincing and if this shall approve it self so it will save labour of answering those Objections though something will be spoken to them also in their place Our blessed Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ who himself was the Great Apostle of his Father as well as the High-priest of our profession Heb. 3.1 whilst he was to perform his Father's work Rom. 15.8 whose Messenger or Apostle he was as being set apart and sent forth for that purpose Joh. 6.38 39 40. Joh. 12.49 and spake and acted according to the commandment he had received from the Father In the performance of which Ministration or Service he was pleased to single out some certain persons from amongst others whom he appointed and authorized to wait upon him in that Ministration or Service Those he termed Disciples or Apostles Matth. 10.1 When he had called to him his Disciples he gave them power c. Now the names of the twelve Apostles were these c. These twelve Jesus sent forth and commanded them saying Go not into the way of the Gentiles but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel and as ye go preach 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Vers 16. Behold I send you forth c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 These twelve were such as he ordained from amongst others Mar. 3.13 He went up into a mountain and called to him whom he would and they came unto him And he ordained twelve that they should be with him and that he might send them forth to preach Luke 6.13 And when it was day he called to him his Disciples and of them he chose twelve whom he also named Apostles These Disciples were not meerly such as were followers of Christ and had learnt of him as Scholars but such as himself out of others had Chosen Called and Ordained that they should be with him and that he might send them forth to preach which accordingly he did and named them Apostles as Matth. 10. and Luke 6. doth evidence And what Commission he had the same he gave to them As he saith of himself I am not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel so he commanded them not to go to the Gentiles nor into the way of Samaria but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel Matth. 10.5 Besides these he likewise sent forth the Seventy with like Power and Commission to preach the Gospel and to confirm it by Miracles as Himself and the Apostles also did But in a more especial manner did the Twelve converse with him upon all occasions as his assidual attendants or houshold-servants During the time of his Administration upon earth and when he was about to finish the work which the Father sent him to do so far as concerned his personal presence he delegated that power the Father had committed to him into the hands of them those very persons whom before he had ordained to be with him Matth. 28.18 19 20. Now the time approaching wherein the Mosaical Dispensation was to expire and the Christian Church and its Worships to be introduced in the stead thereof our Lord Jesus having fulfilled all righteousness as touching the Law gives commandment that the Gospel be preached to all Nations baptizing them in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy Spirit Touching the persons to whom Christ did delegate the power and authority of Preaching and Baptizing much is written as hath been hinted before Some say To Believers as Believers Some say To Disciples as Disciples Some say To Preaching Disciples Some say To Disciples able to preach the Gospel so as to bring over souls to believe and be baptized Others speak in other expressions It is too much to follow them in all There be four things I shall desire may be enquired into the discussion whereof will take in most of the Scripture which any way give light to the understanding of this Subject and which may occasionally answer many Objections which otherwise require particular discussion I shall propound them by way of Question First Whether Christ did not commit the Preaching of the Word and administration of Baptisme to a Ministery Secondly What the nature and end of that Ministery was which the Lord Jesus appointed to succeed him Thirdly Whether there be any pattern of any visible Congregated Church under the Gospel without or before a Ministery or Baptisme Fourthly Whether the present Ministery and present Churches may be acknowledged the Ministers and Churches of Christ according to the first Pattern To the first of these That Power and Authority to Preach and Baptize was committed to the Apostels or to the Eleven Disciples as to a Ministery might be demonstrated First From the Equity of it which appears in the Respect or Care which