so qualify'd as is apt to convince to answer it and not at all by Protestant Grounds which yield them all Fallible yet I have that regard for any thing that tends though remotely to Solidity that I will even remit something of my own advantage to give it a respectful Consideration The Testimony is of Gennadius cited by my L. p. 58 59. thus For after Christ's Ascension into Heaven the Souls of all Saints are with Christ and going from the body they go to Christ expecting the resurrection of their body with it to pass into the perfection of perpetual bliss To which my Ld. subjoyns and this he delivers as the Doctrin of the Catholick Church I take this excellent Testimony as put down by himself to do which the usage of St. Greg. Nazianzen's immediately foregoing gives me small encouragement In answer then I affirm that this Testimony so insisted and rely'd on as against us is as plain a declaration of the Faith of our Church at present as any now-adayes Catholick could pronounce For since no Catholick holds that any goes to Purgatory but they who die Sinners to some degree and that all who are Saints are with Christ in Heaven as is evident by the Churches common language affirming constantly the Saints are in Heaven and never that the Saints are in Purgatory but the Souls onely it is manifest that the words are as expresly for us as we our selves could invent or wish I hope it will not wrogMethod if on this occasion I show how Protestant Writers speed when they bring against us any Testimony of a Father speaking as a Father that is declaring that he delivers the sence of the Catholick Church however in other Testimonies which speak not narratively or matter of Fact the very nature of words joyn'd with the variety of their Circumstances must needs afford room for ambiguity and several Glosses I affirm then that this Testimony not onely is not in the least opposit to us but is directly opposit to the Protestants in another point of Faith in which we differ To discover this let us reflect on the words After Christes Ascension into Heaven the Souls of all Saints are with Christ and ask what mean these words After Christs Ascension And first 't is Evident it puts a distinction between the Souls of Saints before Christs Ascension and After it in some Respect and what is this Respect most expresly this that the Souls of the Saints After Christes Ascension go from the body to Christ that is that before the Ascension none did The avowed Doctrin of the Catholick Church prosessing that those who die Saints in the Law of Grace go straight to Heaven but that the best Saints before our Saviours dying for them and Ascending with them did not Whence also we hold that Christes descending into Hell was to free them from that State of Suspence and Want of their strongly desired and hopet for Bliss According to that Hymn of S. Ambrose and S. Augustin in the Common-prayer-book so oft said over by rote but never reflected on When thou hadst overcome the Sharpness of death thou didst open the Kingdome of Heaven to all Believers Signifying plainly that no Believers sound Heaven open for them till after Christ's death By the Success of this one Testimony is seen how utterly the Protestant Cause would be overthrown by way of Testimony as well as Reason were Citations distinguish't brought to Grounds and those onely admitted from the Fathers in which 't is manifest they speak as Fathers or Witnessers of what is the present Churches doctrin To close up this Discourse about the Dissuader's Citations He is to show us first that they fall not under the Faulty Heads to which they are respectively assign'd or under diverse others of those Heads Next that they have in them the nature of Testimonies And lastly which is yet harder that though they have in them the nature of Testimonies their Authority is Certain and their language unambiguous so that they may be safely rely'd on for Principles or Grounds of a solid Discourse This if he shows of any one citation which strikes at our Faith I promise him very heartily to subscribe to the validity of all the rest 13. Thus much for his Authorities Next should follow a Refutation of his Reasons produc't against our Faith for as for those against our School-Divines or Casuists they concern not me as a Controvertist Let him and them fight it out Now Reasons that strike at our Faith must either be against the Ground of Faith and those shall be consider'd in my Answer to his First Section or against points of Faith And these may proceed two wayes First by showing those points Incomprehensible to our Natural Reason or unsutable to our Faney and this way he frequently takes making a great deal of game upon such subjects as any Atheist may do by the same way in points common to him and us But this hurts us not in the least in regard we hold not Mysteries of Faith Objects of Human Reason nor Spiritual Things the Objects of Fancy and so these Reasons need no farther Answer The other way Reasons against Points of Faith may proceed is to show those Points contradictory to some Evident Principles at least to some other known or else acknowledg'd Truth And these were worth answering But such as these I find none in his whole Book rather that he builds his sleight Descants or Discourses on some controvertible Text or Citation relying on them as firmly as if they were First Principles Indeed p. 65. the Dissuader tells us of a Demonstration of his for the Novelty of Transubstantion and that a plain one too But I shal manifest shortly from the very words of the Author Peter Lombard on which his Plain Demonstration relies that 't is either a plain mistake or plain Abuse of him nay argues the direct contrary to what the Dissuader product it for Some Consequences also he deduces ad hominem against diverse points of our Faith built on our own Concessions or Allow'd Truths taken from the Fathers by which he attempts to overthrow it But these Consequences are so strangely Inconsequent and those tenets he would counterpose so far from Contradictory that 't is hard to imagin whence his Reason took its rise to leap into such remote conclusions I 'le instance in two found p. 49 and 50. That the Conflagration of the last day and the Opinion of some Fathers that the Souls were detain'd in secret receptacles till the day of Judgment do both destroy intermediate Purgatory Which Consequences if he will make good I will vield his whole Book to be Demonstrative and Unanswerable In a word all the good Reasons he brings are taken from some of our Divines writing against others and he hath done himself the right to chuse the best which levelled against the opinion of a less able Divine in stead of a point of Faith must needs bear a
exprest to be the Scripture and on this Expression he so strongly builds that p. 10 11. he concludes thence and Certainly too thus The Religion of our Church sayes he is therefore certainly Primitive and Apostolick because it teaches us to believe the whole Scriptures of the old and New Testament and nothing else as matter of Faith What mean the word Scriptures Any determinate sence of it or the dead Characters Alas their Church is far from teaching them the first or from having grounds to own such a pretence but puts the Book in their hands and bids them find the sence of it or their Faith for there is their Rule 'T is the bare Letter then unsenc't he means by the word Scriptures and so he must say 't is the outward Cuaracters his Church teaches us to believe and nothing else as matter of Faith that is their whole Faith has for its object Ink thus figur'd in a Book A worthy Argument to proove their Church is certainly Primitive and Apostolick whereas itis known Faith was before those Characters and besides if this be to be Apostolical we owe nothing to the other Apostles for our faith but onely to those six who writ But we mistake him he means neither sence of the word Scripture and hates these distinctionswith all his heart which would oblige him to either He meant to talk of Scripture indeterminately and confusedly which might make a fine show and yet expose him to no Inconvenience by giving any particular account of his meaning His Inference from this his First Principle being an Immediate one will utterly overthrow the Papists without doubt Therefore saith he p. 11. unless there can be New Scriptures we can have no New matter of Belief no new Articles of Faith No my Ld Yes as long as by Scriptures you mean no determinate sence of Scriptures but the bare Letter onely whose sence is fetch 't out by Interpretations and these as we experience depend on menes private Judgments and Fancies if menes Fancies may vary every hour you may have diverse Interpretations every hour and so new Articles of Faith every hour Is not this a mad kind of arguing to conclude as absolute an unerrableness in Faith as if they had not onely a determinate Principle but even as self-evident and unmistakable as the First Principle in Metaphysicks to guid themselves by whereas our daily eysight and their own sad experience every day teaches us by the practice of this Principle and yet their differing in the Sence of Scripture in most high and most concerning Points that the Speenlation is naught and the Principle it self a false and mis-guiding Light Nay I doubt my Ld. himself has no hearty value for this his First Principle though he sayes he wholly relies on it For I never saw Protestant Book in my Life thinner and sleighter in Scripture-Citations than is his Dissuasive so that if that be his First Principle he makes little use of it 35. Many other Propositions or Supposals are imply'd in his book to give it force As that It matters not how a Citation is qualify'd so it be but alledg'd 'T is no matter whether the question be rightly stated or no. The Tenets of our Church are not to be taken from the use of definitions found in approved Councils speaking abstractedly but from the particular Explications of some Divines Every Foppery is a proper Effect of the Churches Doctrin Points of Faith ought to be comprehensible to Reason and Spiritual things sutable to Fancy The Act of an Inquisition Sayings of a few Divines or Casuists are all Catholik Faith and the Doctrin of the Church That is rationally dissuasive which is confessedly Uncertain No Answer was ever given to the Citations or Reasons produc't in the Dissuasive Talking soberly and piously about a point is oftentimes as good as prooving it That t is Self-evident Scripture's Letter can bear but one Interpretation as wrought upon by Human Skills These and multitudes of such like though not exprest yet run imply'd in his carriage all along this book and suppos'd true to give it any force yet so evidently false and weak that to pull them out thence and make them show their heads is enough to confute them I conclude and charge the Dissuader that he not onely hath never a Principle for his Dissuasive to subsist by but farther that 't is Impossible but himself should know in his own Conseience that he has none nay more that the Protestant Cause and the same I say of all out of the Church can have none The first part of my charge I have manifoldly prooved in this present Appendix The other part of it which charges him with Consciousness of having no Grounds hath two branches and for the former of those I alledge that the wayes he takes all along to manage his Dissuasive are so evidently studious so industrious so designed and perfectly artificial that though one who is guided on in a natural way is oftentimes not aware of his thoughts or their method till he comes to reflect yet 't is Impossible he should not be aware of his which he postures with such exquisit craft and such multitudes of preternatural sleights to render his Discourse plausible For the later of those Branches namely that he cannot but know the Protestant Cause can have no Principles to make it Evident I discourse thus ad hominem what I have prov'd in Sure-Footing out of the nature of the Thing 'T is their most constant and avow'd Profession and his p. 9. that they do wholly rely upon Scripture as the foundation and final resort of all their Persuasions This being so Fathers and Councils are not held at all by them but as far as they are agreeable to Scriptures that is their Testimony has no basis of Certainty from themselves or of their own but what they participate from Scripture Wherefore either they are No Principles or else Subordinate ones to their First Principle Scripture Unless then It be Certain or deserve the name of a Principle They can never be held by Protestants such nor consequently can merit the name of Principles even Subordinate ones because then pretended First Principle from which onely they can derive Title to that dignity is in that case none it self To Scripture then le ts come By which word if they agreed to mean any determinate Sence of it certainly known to be the true one their Discourse were well-built But since their Church can own no determinate Sence of the Scripture deriv'd down from Christ and his Apostles in antecedency to the Scripture's Letter but having renounc't that Way or Tradition must say she has it meerly from that Letter as yet unsenc't She must mean that 't is the Scripture Letter She relies on as the foundation and final resort of all her Persuasions nay for her Persuasion that this is the Sence of it Since then Principles are determinate Sences not characters or Sounds neither is
restrains you from it For our discourse is about the Ground of that Authority which ascertains to us Faith which theresore is antecedent to the notions of Faith Faithful Church Councils Fathers nay and creditable History-books too since those rely on Tradition taken at large for their Certainty as is evident by plain reason Coroll 16 24. which devolves into this that Tradition is FIRST AUTHORITY and so not proovable or disproovable by any other secondary Authorities but ought to be impugn'd by pure Reason But if you think fit to grant this Certainty to Tradition taken at large yet deny it to Christian Tradition which hath besides its Human force most powerful Divine Motives also to strengthen it please to speak it out and the strange unreasonableness of the position will quickly be made appear Or if you grant Christian Tradition Certain in bringing down those common Points in which we agree yet Fallible nay actually erring in bringing down to us those other points which we were found holding upon Tradition when you left us and for which as grievous Errors you pretended to leave us please to declare in what you hold the virtue of Tradition consists ascertaining to us both those common points and how we come to know Tradition is engag'd for them which done it will quickly appear whether its ascertaining virtue has its Effect upon some and not others or on all Unless you do this your very admittance of Tradition's Certainty in some overthrows you without more ado for to acknowledge it argumentative for the Certainty of some grants it a virtue of Ascertaining which therefore you are oblig'd to grant in all unless you give the reason of your Exception otherwise to admit it when your Interest is not toucht and reject it when it opposes you is plainly to confess that Tradition is able to certify yet that you admit it when you list and reject it when you list 7. Being inform'd then by Evident Reason that no kind of Authority but only the way of Reason is a competent Weapon to fight against Tradition with I have three things to propose to your Thoughts on this occasion which I hope will sound reasonable to any intelligent man by the very mentioning First that you would not alledge such Arguments as strike as well at the Constancy of every Species in Nature especially Rational Nature that is such natural Mediums as tend to destroy all Natural Certainty Secondly that your objections be not forrain or fetch 't from afar of for these are multipliable without End and apt to be suggested by Fancy upon every not-seeing the coherence of some other remote whether real or conceited Truth with the Tenet we aim to impugn but that they be immediate and close that is taken out of the Intrinsecal Nature of the Thing For so they will be more forcible and by consequence be apt to do your Cause much service and unless they be such they will do it none For in regard my whole process is grounded on the nature of the Thing as appears by my Transition and every Logician knows that remote and common considerations are liable for any thing we know to be connected or not-connected with the point we would apply them to because we see no Connexion but what 's Immediate it follows that 't is a very incompetent and dissatisfactory way to impugn an Adversary who endeavours all along to frame his discourfe out of the Intrinsecal Nature of the Thing by remote or unimmediate that is indeed Unconnected Mediums The third thing I request is that you either grant that no Argument or Reason is Conclusive Obliging-to-Assent or Satisfactory but what is either Proper at least Necessary Cause or Effect or else show us out of Logick that other Mediums have this virtue and how they come to have it This way of procedure will give me a great respect for you as taking honestly the Way which is apt to clear Truth and you will have this Satisfaction to your Conscience that you have endeavour'd it to your power by following the best method you could imagin to give your Cause its due advantage in case it can bear that Test that is in case it be Truth And if it cannot bear it that is if it be no Truth 't is your own best Advantage by this strict procedure to have discover'd it Your Judicious Readers also that look seriously for satisfaction will rest much edify'd and thankfull for your pursuing that Method which is likely to save them a great deal of fruitless pains in reading multitudes of books writ in a loose way whence no Conclusion or Satisfaction is likely to result 8. My fifth request and I hope 't is just and reasonable is this that if you conceive your Discourse has made good the Certainty of Written Authorities or quoted Testimonies without Tradition which I see isimpossible and hence you make account you have title to produce them against Tradition's Certainty That being the matter in hand and therefore you resolve to pursue the way of Citing Authours you would then be please'd to vouch your Citations to have truly in them the nature of Testimonies that is to be built on Sensible Knowledge and not on Speculative or Opinion in the Authour alledg'd and that they fall under none of Dr. Pierce's faulty or Inconclusive Heads or else show they are Conclusive though thus Faulty which is done by confuting my Grounds laid in my First Appendix § 6 7 8. Or lastly to declare that though thus Faulty and Inconclusive they ought still to be alledgd and to give your reason for it which candidly spoken out I am sure will be this that you must either produce such or none I hope all our ingenuous Readers will think me very reasonable who am well contented with any thing which is spoke out expressly and declaratively of what method or way of Satisfying you take and onely desire you would not quote and speak confusedly and in common as if you meant to persuade your Readers that your discourse has in it some strange force taken in the bulk though you will vouch no one particular piece of it to be Certain or as if you suppos'd their reasons were to be amazd and stupify'd meerly at the venerable Names of Authors and the solemnity of a diverse-letter'd or diverse-languag'd quotation without clearing to their Judgements the virtue by which such Citations can pretend to have force able to subdue their understandings to Assent or which is all one satisfy them If you refuse to do me reason in this point and still resolve to pursue the huddling together Testimonies without warranting their Certainty by showing upon rational grounds they must be such I shall declare beforehand to my Readers that I must be fore't to do right to my self which is to rank all your Testimonies under Dr. Pierce's Faulty Heads and so let them go as they are 9. Particularly I beg the Justice of you not to think to
Readers before he hath brought any thing able to satisfy their Understandings 6. Yet though his Method have no particularity in it as to its quoting part who knows but it may be very particular as to its Rational part that is full of Proofs which conclude evidently or Demonstrations But I am so far from feeling the force of any one such Proof in his whole Book that I cannot discern its very Existence or even any Attempt of that kind and I dare affirm my Ld. of Downs never meant it or dream't of it If he have any such I request his Lp. would in his Reply single them out from all the Pious and Inconclusive Talk which swell his Book and I promise them very heartily to lend them a due and respectful Confideration But I am sure he will neither pretend he has any nor attempt the having any if he but reflect that a Demonstration is a Proof which has in it a virtue of obliging the Understanding to Assent and that it obtains this virtue by building on Intrinsecal Mediums that is on Proper Causes or Effects of which 't is impossible the one should be without the other This clearing Method onely the Champions of Truth dare take and the Defenders of Errour must avoid under penalty of having their Cause quite ruin'd and crush't to pieces And this severe Method of finding Truth relying on the Goodness of my Cause I fear not to take and stick to in Sure-Footing as appears there by my Transition which sufficiently shows the Particularity of my Method I expect now my Ld. of Downs would show me the particularity of his or renounce all right and Title to Dissuade 7. I have been something longer about laying open the Necessity of a Proper Method to dissuade ere one can in reason hope to perform that Effect because I see plainly that in the pursuit of Truth Method is in a manner ALL and that 't is impossible any Controversy should hover long in debate if a right Method of concluding evidently were carefully taken and faithfully held to I have told my Ld. of Downs where he may see mine and I desire him earnestly as he loves Truth either to admit it as Conclusive and follow it or show it Inconclusive and propose us a better to begin and proceed with Evidently And that I may more efficaciously endeavour to bring him nay provoke him as far as I may with Civility to a Method particular and proper to dissuade I declare here before all the world that I know his Cause to be so unable to bear it and hope himself is so prudent that he will never either venture to allow our Method competent to conclude evidently nor yet go about to establish a better of his own Fourth Way 8. THe fourth Way of disanulling my Lp's whole Endeavours is to speak ad hominem and challenge him thus Your Grounds allow neither Fathers to be Infallible in any Testimony you produce from them to dissuade with nor yet your self in interpreting Scripture nor I conceive will you say that you see with Infallible Certainty any Proposition you go about to deduce by Reason if there be any such in your Dissuasive to be necessarily consequent from any First or Self-evident Principle therefore You are Certain of nothing you alledge in your whole Book If then His Lordship would please to speak out candidly he ought to say I know not Certainly that any thing I say against your Religion is true yet notwithstanding I would fain dissuade you from holding the Faith of your Forefathers and to relinquish a Religion you judge unalterable and hope to be sav'd by holding it Which were it profest and deliver'd ingenuously as it lies at the very bottome of his heart his Lp's Dissuasive would be a pleasant piece and lose all power to move any Child of common Sence nay the vulgar Reason of the wild Irish would be too hard for it Now that this ought in due candour to be profest in case neither the Fathers nor Himself be Infallible in any saying or Proof of theirs is thus Evidene't For since to be Infallible in None hîc nunc taking in the whole Complexion of assisting Circumstances is the same as to be hîc nunc Fallible in All or Each and if they be Fallible or may be deceived in Each they can be Sure of None it follows that who professes the Fathers Himself though using all the means he can to secure him from Errour Fallible in Each must if he will speak out like an honest man confess he is Sure of None Let then my Ld. of Downs either vouch Infallible Certainty in himself reasoning or Interpreting or in the Authorities he cites I mean Infallible considering their endeavours in complexion with all the means on foot in the world to preserve them so or else confess that notwithstanding all means us'd by them they are in each Saying and Proof Fallible and so himself sure of never a Motive he brings to dissuade with Now to see so Eminent a Writer and chosen out on purpose as he professes by the whole Church of Ireland go about to combat a settled Persuasion held sacred unalterable descending from Christ by Attestation of Forefathers the Way to Bliss c. and bring no better Arguments to do it but such as are were he put to declare it and would speak out confessedly Uncertain is so far from being a competent Dissuasive from Catholick Faith that 't is when laid open which is here perform'd as good a Persuasive for the Generality of Catholicks to hold stedfastly to it as man's Wit can invent and far better to the weaker sort of Speculaters than to demonstrate the Infallibility of the Ground of Faith Such advantage Catholick Faith gains by the Opposition from her Adversaries if they be rightly handled and their Discourses brought to Grounds Fifth Way 9. THe Fifth Way is built on the fourth or indeed on the Protestants voluntary Concession For they granting they have no Demonstration for the Ground of their Faith must say they have onely Probability and consequently that Faith quoad nos is Uncertain or to use their own Expression that Faith in us is an Assent cui non subest dubium of which we have no doubt yet cui potest subesse falsum or possible to be false which amounts to this that Faith at large is but highly probable much lesse their Faith as contradistinguisht from ours Probabilities then being of such a Nature that they do not absolutely weigh down the scale of our Judgment I mean while they are seen to be but Probabilities as is my Ld's case it follows that if there be Probabilities for the other side the way to dissuade from It is to put all those probable reasons in the opposit ballance and then by comparing them show they have no considerable weight counterpos'd to those he brings for his Tenet Now that there is no Probability for our side is very hard
to be said since the whole world sees plainly we still maintain the Field against them nay dare pretend without fearing an absolute baffle which must needs follow had we not at least Probabilities to befriend us that our Grounds are Evidently and Demonstrably Certain nay more dare venture to take the most clearing Method imaginable to stand or fall by and withal are bold to challenge them that they have no Evident Grounds to begin with nor dare venture to pursue that evidencing Method But my Lds own words in his Liberty of Prophecying Sect. 20. § 2. will beyond all confute evince it ad hominem at least that we have Probabilities and those strong ones too on our side I pick out some leaving out other weighty ones which hisExpressions had too much deform'd His words are these Such as are the Beauty and Splendor of their Church their pompous Service the Stateliness and Solemnity of the Hierarchy their name of CATHOLICK which they suppose their own due and to concern no other sort of Christians he ought have said which the establisht use of the word and deriv'd riv'd down to the Successours of those who first had that Name forces all even their Adversaries to give them when they speak naturally and makes them despair of obtaining it for themselves The Antiquity of many of their Doctrins The Continual Succession of their Bishops their Immediate derivation from the Apostles the Title to succeed S. Peter the Multiteudand Variety of people which are of their Persuasion Apparent Consent with Antiquity in many Ceremonials which other Churches have rejected a pretended and sometimes an apparent Consent with some elder ages in many matters Doctrinal the great Consent of one part with another in that which most of them affirm to be de fide the great Differences which are commenced amongst their Adversaries Their happiness in being Instruments in converting divers Nations he should rather have said All The Advantages of Monarchical Government the benefit of which as well as the Inconveniences they dayly enjoy the Piety and Austerity of their Religious Orders of men and women the Single Life of their Priests and Bishops the severity of their Fasts and their Exterior Observances the known Holiness of some of those persons whose Institutes the Religious Persons pretend to imitate c. After which he subjoyns These things and diverse others may very easily persuade persons of much reason and more piety to retain that which they know to have been the Religion of their Forefathers which had actual Possession and seizure of men's understandings before the opposit professions had a name Thus he By which words 't is Evident we have Probabilities and high ones too on our side else how could they be able very easily to persuade persons of much reason especially they having as he sayes more piety or more then much that is very much which argues rather that those motives for Catholick Faith were sutable to Piety or Truths ot at least exceedingly-seeming-Pious so as the great Piety of those persons neither checkt at the practice according to those Motives nor their much Reason reach't to a discovery of their Fallaciousness Whence we may gather farther than those Motives so standing for us are to be rankt in the highest degree of Probability For since those Persons are confest to be very Pious that is very Good and so unapt to be byast by Passion and withal to have much Reason 't is plain the Cause of their Assent to Catholick Faith must be look't for in the Object and have a wonderful appearance at least of Evidence or highest Probability which is able to conquer and satisfy so Rational and sincere Understandings This being so my Ld. cannot in reason own himself a Dissuader nor pretend his Discourse has power to dissuade any from our Faith unless he put down the whole force of what we build our Faith on together with his motives why he judges it false and then compare or weigh those reasons together and so conclude his absolutely preponderating I doubt those very motives deliverd faintly by himself though an Adversary are such as had he laid them open at large as he does his own Objections he would have been infinitely puzzled to find others to overballance them with any show of Reason But I will not put him upon so large a task Let him onely consider on what Grounds the Rule of our Faith is built to wit on sensible and unmistakable matter of Fact from age to age and this unmistakableness confirm'd supernaturally by the concern of the Thing obliging the Beleevers best care to preserve it and by the Goodness implanted in their hearts by Christ's Doctrin which kept lively awake that care as it is at large laid open in Sure-Footing and then compare it with Descanting upon Scripture's Letter by Human Skills which is the Ground of the Protestants Faith as contra-distinguish't from ours or rather of their Dissent or negative Tenets and show those Grounds preponderating ours and then his Reader will have some encouragement to heed his Dissuasive otherwise he can have none Sixth Way 10. A Sixth way is to demand of his Lp. if he will undertake the pretended Evidences he produces whether Reasons or Citations have not also been pretended at least to be answered by Learned men on our side and that the Indifferent part of the world have judg'd the Catholicks were so evidently concluded against by the Protestants that they were not able in reason to reply However he ought to have alledg'd that in the Evidences he brings the Protestants have had the last Reply that so at least there may be some sleight conjectural likelihood they were Unanswerable or Convictive This I say seems in reason fit to have been voucht and as Natural Method requires it plac't at the very Entrance of his Book so to give the Reader some faint hopes his perusing it might be perhaps to some purpose What does my L. of Downs He professes at the very beginning of his Introduction the direct contrary For he confesses there that the Evidences on both sides in questions of difference between our Churches have been so often produc't c. It will seem almost impossible to produce any new matter or if we could observe how unlikely he makes it he should conclude any thing it will not be probable that what can be newly alledg'd can prevail more than all which already hath been so often urg'd in these Questions He should after the words so often urg'd have added and never answer'd otherwise the often urging signifies nothing as to Convictiveness Yet careless of this he proceeds But we are not deterred from doing our duty by any such considerations as knowing that the same medicaments c. Which waving the pious Rhetorick to any Understanding man signifies directly as much as if he should profess I am resolv'd to write a Book against the Papists whatever comes onit or whether it be to purpose or
I can justifie my self I complain then that your carriage in this one page discovers you at once an absolute stranger to Science and withal very uncivilly Injurious to me all along without any imaginable need Ground or the least occasion given You begin with a mistake of the reason why the Rational Way explained in Rushworth's Dialogues was follow'd by me in Schism Dispatcht or rather why that way was devised and conceive 't is because we despair of maintaining the Popes Personal Infallibility and think all your own if you disprove this So that you strongly apprehend this the basis of all our Faith By which I see Opinion and Faith is all one with you Deceive not your self nor your Readers Sir our D râ— came and do dispute against personal Infallibilities far more strongly than you are even likely and if you please to look into our Councils you find no news of building Faith on any such ground but onely on Tradition The Way I take is the old-and-ever-Way of the Church the farther Explication of it is indeed new not occasion'd by our relinquishing Personal Infallibility of the Pope you shall never show the Church ever built her Faith on a disputable Ground but by this occasion Had you look't into Things and consider'd the progress of the Rational part of the world as well as you pore on Books you would have discern'd that the Wits of this last half Century have been strangely curious and Inquisitive and straining towards a Satisfaction apt to bring all into doubt which they conceiv'd to hinder their way to it Had you reflected on those Heroes of such Attempts the Noble and Learned Sr. Kenelm Digby des Caries Gassendus Harvey and now the Royal Society those living Libraries of Learning in their several wayes you would have found that parallel to them in the matter of Controversy were the Ld. Faukland and Mr. Chillingworth whose acute wits sinding no Establishment nor Satisfaction in the Resolution of our Faith as made by some particular Divines nor yet in the Grounds of the Protestant Beleef endeavour'd to shake the whole Fabrick of our Faith and allow but a handsome Probability to their own Whence Doubt and Inquisitiveness being the Parents of Satisfaction and Evidence Catholick Controvertists began to apply themselves more closely and regardfully to look into the Groundâ— of their Faith Tradition or Universal delivery seâ—tled from the beginning of the Church proceeded upon by Councils and all the Faithful insisted on and stuck to by the Fathers especially those who were most Controversial as Athanasius S. Augustin Tertullian S. Hierome c. and at large by Vincentius Lirinensis and to consider how Proper Causes lay'd in Things by the Course of God's Providence had the virtue to produce the Effect of deriving down with Infallible Certainty Christ's doctrin to us Hence sprung our farther Explication of this way which so much bewonders you This is your mistake now to your Injuries I quoted Rushworth's Dialogues and call'd it The rich Store-house of motives fortifying Tradition Upon this your Reason works thus This I do not understand I never heard of such an Authour and it is possible the better to cry himself up he might borrow another name What means This I do not understand I 'le acquaint the Reader It means you are so wedded to talk by the book that you are utterly at a loss if an Authour be quoted you have not heard of The reason of which is because as I see by your Discourses which look like so many dreams your Genius inclines you not much to trade in Books which pretend to the way of Reason and if Schism Dispatch't so amaz'd you 't is to be fear'd that Sure-Footing and its Corollaries may put you out of your wirts But with what Civility should you hint I so extoll'd my self under another name it being as you say but possible Should I put upon you all things that were possible what a Monster might I make you But it abundantly manifests your short reach of reason that 't is highly Improbable For either I must have discover'd my self to the world to be Authour of both books and then I had sham'd my self with so high self-praises or not have manifested it and then where 's the credit I had got by the other book I had so extoll'd Your next Injury is that I make nothing of and disclaim the Testimonies of Popes and Prelates calling them the words of a few particular men and cite for it Schism Dispatch't p. 98. where there is not one word of either Pope or Prelate nor of disclaiming any Testimony nor of calling those the bare words of a few particular men Now if this be so every word you charge against me is an injurious Calumny and your whole charge a direct Falsisication My words are these By this is shown in what we place the Infallbility of the CHURCH not in the bare words of few particular men but in the manifest and ample Attestation of such a Multitude c. Where though you cannot or will not yet the Reader if he understands plain English will see I meddle not with who is or is not Infallible besides the Church nor sean the validity of Testimonies of Popes or Prelates but treat in what the Infallibility of the CHURCH consists Now the word CHURCH denothing in its First Signification an Universality I place her Infallibility in Universal Attestation from Age to Age. Notwithstanding which my Corollaries in Sure-Footing if your Wonderment at my new Way or your own habituation to words will let you understand them will let you see I also place Infallibility in lesser Councils even in particular Sees but most in the Popes or the Roman not by way of an Afflatus of which I for my part an able to give no account but by a course of Things Natural and Supernatural laid by Gods sweetly-and-strongly ordering Providence in second Causes But what aggravates your Falsification is that whereas I there counterpose bare words and Attestation rejecting the first and making use of the later you make me affirm Testimonies to be bare words To which how much I attribute every such passage of mine will tell you for on them the way I follow entirely builds So that this whole Charge is either quite opposit or else disparate to what I say in the place whence you cite my words Your third Injury and 't is a strange one is that I sleight Scriptures Fathers and Councils as much in this business and call them in scorn Wordish Testimonies for which you cite Schism Dispatch't p. 42. But not such a word is found there nor I will undertake any where else in my Writings 'T is likely indeed that speaking of such things as you use to call Testimonies for you name every sleight Citation such whether it have the nature of Witnessing in it that is be built on Sensations or no I may say they are wordish in regard you have no
Certain means to arrive at their Sence and till then I beseech you what are they else but meer WORDS or rather meer Characters and Sounds What high deference I give to Scripture see § 18 19. beginning p. 146. in Sure-Footing To Councils see Corol. 27. To Fathers taking them properly you may be inform'd by the whole Body of my Discourse concerning Tradition of which they are a part and the Eminentest Members of it in Proportion to their number Your 4th Injury is that the onely thing I place Infallibility in is Oral Tradition and the Testimonies of Fathers of Families whereas I place Infallibilities also in other things though I make this the greatest But your discourse makes me disesteem and exclude all others both Popes Prelates Fathers and Councils by establishing this Whereas by settling this I establish all others nor find you any such Expressions in my Book on the contrary 't is evident by those words I include them unless you think Popes and Prelates are not Fathers of Families but take lodgings or hire rooms in other mens houses by the week Truth is being to express the obligatory descent of Faith from Age to Age I cast about for a common word fit to express such Deliverers and conceiv'd this of Fathers of Families the aptest because the Church consisting of Families this was most General and every Master of a Family by being such has an Obligation to see all under him taught their Catechism or Faith This in common which was enough for my purpose then But were I to distinguish the strength of those Testimonies I should show that a Priest hath an Incomparable advantage above a Layman a Bishop above him and the Head of the Church above a Bishop Your 5th Injury is lighter because it speaks but your own Apprehensions and I am to expect no better from you My many chimerical suppositions and my Impertinencies in which I so please my self must needs begets wonder say you in case the man as probably be of any account and reputation in the world Now my Suppositions in the way I take are chiefly these that men in all Ages had Eyes and Ears the wit and if they were good Christians the Grace not to tell an open and damnable ly to no purpose and for these I should much wonder my self if you did not wonder at such odd Grounds and esteem them Chimerical because you have read them in no ancient book for you use not to look into Things By this extravagant kind of dealing you say you cannot but suspect me to be one of the Fraternity of the new-pretended Lights I believe you heartily For to begin with Self-evident principles and thence to deduce Immediate Consequences is such a new Light to you as I dare undertake scarce one beam of it ever enter'd into the Eye of your Understanding I conceive 't is the difference between your way ours which breeds all this mis-intelligence Ours ayms to bring all Citations to Grounds by way of Cause and Effect yours to admit them confusedly especially if writ by some old Authors provided they speak not for the Interest of Papists for then they are questionable Ours is to be backwards in assenting to any thing writ long ago till our Reason be satisfy'd no Passion or mistake could invalidate its Authority yours to believe them hand over head if the book be but said to be Authentick which is to a degree the same Weakness as that of the rude Country people who think all true they see in Print and that their having a ballad of it is sufficient to authenticate it Our Principle is that no Authority deserves any Assent farther than Reason gives it to deserve and hence we lay Principles to assure us of Knowledge and Veracity in the Authour ere we yeeld over our Assent to his sayings Yours is kinder-hearted than to hold them to such strict terms and is well appay'd if some Authour you have a conceit of praise the other for a good Writer or his work for a good Book Ours is to lay Self-evident Principles and deduce immediate consequences and by this means to cultivate our Reason that noblest Faculty in us which constitutes us Men yours to lay up multitudes of Notes gleand from several Authours and if you better any Spiritual Faculty you have 't is your Memory not your Reason Hence we carry for the main of our Doctrin and as far as 't is antecedent to written Authority our Library in our Heads and can as well study in a Garden as sitting in a Library stufit with books whereas your way of Learning ties you to turn over leaves of Authours as children do their Dictionaries for every step of your discourse and as an ingenious man said of those Poets who spun not their Poems out of their own Invention but made them up of scraps of wit transcrib'd from other Authours Lord how they 'd look If they should chance to lose their paper Book So we may say of you that if your Notes you have with much pains collected hap to miscarry you are utterly at a loss so that little of your Learning is Spiritual and plac't in your Soul as true Learning should be but in material and perishable paper and characters In a word your whole performance ends here that you are able to declare what other men say whereas ours aims at enabling us to manifest what our selves KNOW No wonder then if our wayes being so different we cannot hit it but that as you think ours Chimerical so I assure my self yours and consequently all you write in that way is as far as you go about to conclude or cause Assent by it exceedingly ridiculous This I doubt not will confirm you in what you said before that I am no Friend to Ancient Books or Learning To Note-book Learning indeed not much to true Learning or Knowledge very much and even to the other as far as it conduces to This. To Books I am so much a Friend that I desire not a few should be selected of each sort by a General Council of Schollers and the rest burn'd as did an ingenious person but I would onely have the riff-raff burn'd 't is no great matter if that tedious Legend of Dr. Dee's Sprights accompany them and the Generality preserv'd but so that their Contents should be gather'd in Heads or Common-place books for Schollers to look in occasionally not for rational Creatures to spend their whole lives in poring on them and noting them with a foolish expectation to find true Knowledge by stuffing their Heads with such a gallimawfry and after 40. years thus spent never the wiser for indeed this is little better than for one to hope to frame himself a good sute of Apparel by picking thrums ends out of a multitude of old and overworn Garments But to the point I distinguish Books And as for the Scriptures ascertaining their Letter and Sence which is done by Tradition 't is clear they
to beat down the wordish and dissatisfactory way of Writing and go about to Evidence the Ground of all our Faith knowing that as wounds are never connaturally and solidly cur'd by uniting the distant sides at the surface and leaving them disunited and unheal'd at the bottom but the cure must begin there first so the onely Way to heal the Wounds of the Church is to begin first to win some to acknowledge the most radical and bottom-Principle of all Faith as controverted between us without which all agreement in particular points must needs be unsound and hollow-hearted This is my onely aym in Sure-Footing That therefore you may not obstruct so good a work and withall perform the duty of a solid and candid Writer I offer to your self and all ingenuous Readers these few Reflexions not sprung from my Will for what Authority have I to prescribe you your method but from true Reason working upon the Thing which makes it just duty in you and so ought oblige you to follow it 3. In the first place fince the scope of my whole Book is about the First Principle in Controversy or the Ground of all Faith as to our Knowledge that is about a Point antecedent to all particular Points I conceive it reasonable you should let your Discourse stand firm to the matter in hand and not permit it to slide into Controversies about Particulars For so 't is evident we shall be apt to multiply many words little to our present purpose On what conditions you may have right to alledge Particulars as pretended Instances of Traditions failing shall be seen hereafter 4. Next I desire you would please to speak out Categorically and declare whether you hold Faith absolutely Certain to us or else Possible to be false for any thing we know To explicate my self better that so I may void some common and frivolous Distinctions my intent is to demand of you in behalf of the Christian Reader and his due satisfaction whether you hold Gods Providence has laid in the whole Creation any Certain means by way of Proper Causes to such an Effect to bring down Faith truly to us and whether we can arrive at Certain Knowledge of those means that is come to see or know the Connexion between such Causes and their Effect spoken of I make bold to press you earnestly to this declaration and my reason is because nothing will more conduce to the Conclusion of our present Debate For in case such Causes be laid and can be seen by us then they are Evident or Demonstrative Reasons for the Ground of our Faith's Certainty But if no such Causes be laid or being laid cannot be seen by us then all the Wit of man can never avoid the consequence but that we can have onely Probability for all our Faith that is for any thing we absolutely know 't is all as false as an old wife's tale since there are no degrees in Truths and Falshoods If you advance this Civil piece of Atheistry you must pardon me if I be smart with you in opposition to so damnable and Fundamental an Errour I love Christianity and Mankinde 〈◊〉 well to suffer that Position which destroyes effectually the Root of all their Eternal Happiness and the Substance of all their Hope to pass unstigmatiz'd as it deserves Nor think to avail your self by some Discoursers in our Schools It will be shown when prest that they are still preserv'd good Christians through the virtue of Tradition which they all hold to notwithstanding their private speculations but you not because of your want of Certain Grounds to make you rationally hold Christs Faith They onely mistook a Word whereas you will be found to erre in the whole Thing or the ordinary Means to true Christianity Again if such Causes be fitting to be laid by God's Providence 't is impossible to avoid the Doctrin propos'd in Sure-Footing because 't is absolutely Impossible to invent any thing that looks like such Causes but those which are deliver'd there nor did any other Way ever attempt to show any such Whence I foresee your Cause will force you to fly for refuge to the actual Uncertainty or possible Falshood of all our Faith for any thing any man living knows by ordinary means A sad consequence of an erroneous tenet But 't is connatural and so to be expected such Effects should follow the renouncing the Rule of Faith 5. Thirdly I conceive it very reasonable that you would please to declare whether Controversy onght to have any First Principle or no If none then to speak candidly out and confess that Controvertists are Certain of nothing they say since their discourse has no Ground or First Principle to rely on If any whether Tradition be It or if it be not what else is and then vouch as plain reason tells us you ought that what you assigne has truly in it the nature of a First Principle which common Reason gives to be self-evidence Or lastly to profess if you judge it your best play that what you substitute in stead of Tradition though it be a First Principle yet it need not be at all self-evident Any thing shall content me so you will but please to speak out and to the point 6. Again since it is evidently your task to argue against Tradition's Certainty 't is as Evident that while you argue against it you must bear your self as holding It uncertain I conceive then plain Reason obliges you not to produce any thing against Tradition which depends upon Tradition for its Certainty for in doing so you would invalidate and even nullify all your own proofs Since if Tradition be held by you uncertain and they have no certainty but by means of It they must be confest Uncertain too and so they would be incompetent to be produc't as proofs and your self very dis-ingenuous to produce them I add self-contradicting too and Unskilful Nature and Aristotle teaching us that a Discourser ought not sustain contrary to himself Hence plainest Reason excludes you from alledging any kind of Testimony either from Scripture Councils Fathers or History till you answer my Corollaries 12 15 16. which pretend to demonstrate the Certainty of all these dependent on Tradition's and the onely way to show my discourses there to be weak is to manifest my mistake by declaring into what other thing your Certainty of those Testimonies is finally resolvable which is not coincident with Tradition When you produce such a Principle and prove it such you have right to alledge the foresaid Testimonies for then you can make good their Authority Till then you can have no right in true reason to do it Not onely because till then you are to be held a Renouncer of that Thing 's Certainty upon which there are pretended demonstrations against you Theirs is built and those presum'd true ones because you let such strongest Attempts pass unanswer'd but very particularly for this Consideration that our present matter
my fault and endeavour to amend it For however I see my Grounds Evident yet I am far from judging my self Infallible in drawing my Consequences though I see withal the method I take will not let me err much Or if I do my Errour will be easily discoverable because I go not about to cloud my self in words but to speak out as plain as I can from the nature of the Thing 12. In the next place I earnestly request you as you love Truth not to shuffle of the giving me a full Answer nor to desist from your Enterprise as I hear a Certain person of great esteem for his learning and prudence has already done though you find some difficulty where to fasten upon the Substantial part of my discourse There are perhaps many difficult passages which my Shortness forc't me to leave Obscure These will naturally occasion mistake and Mistake will breed Objections to impugn me with Please if others fail to make use of those at least 'T is no discredit in you to mistake what 's obscure rather it argues a fault in me did not my circumstance of writing Grounds onely to Schollers excuse me that I left it so To make amends for which I promise you to render it clear when I see where it pinches you or others And on this score I owe very particular thanks to Mr Stillingfleet that by speaking clearly out his thoughts he gave me a fair occasion to open that point he impugn'd I think upon mistake of our Tenet 13. If you think fit somtimes to argue ad hominem be sure what you build on be either our Churches Tenet or mine for I am bound to defend nothing else If then you quote Fathers first see they speak as Fathers that is as Believers and Witnessers for so 't is evident our Church means them by her Expressions in the Council of Trent as also did Antiquity For both of them constantly alledge and stand upon Traditio Patrum not Opinio Patrum Next see you bring Consensus Patrum or an agreement at least of very many of them speaking as Witnesses otherwise you will not touch me nor our Church for she never abetted them further In case you bring Councils it would be very efficacious you would chuse such Testimonies if you can finde them as I brought from the Council of Trent that is such in which they declare themselves or the Circumstances give it they proceed upon their Rule of Faith For otherwise every one knows that Bishops in a Council have in them besides the Quality of Faith-Definers those also of Governours and of the most Eminent and solid Divines in God's Church If Scripture you must make Evident the Certainty of your way of arguing from it ere I or our Church shall allow it argumenative Thus much for Authority If you oppose me by my own Principles or Discourses of my Reason I must defend my self as well as I can One thing on this occasion I must mind you of 't is this that though you should conquer in this way of arguing ad hominem you onely conquer me as a Discourser by showing that I contradict my self not my Tenet for to prove that false you must fix your foot and build your discourse on some Certain Ground which barely my holding it on which your discourse ad hominem relies cannot make it You must build then on some Grounded Truth if you will go about to overthrow a pretended one Indeed if you can show Tradition contradicts her self you will do more than miracle and so must conquer But I fear not the Gates of Hell much less Man's wit can prevail against that impregnable Rock Onely I beseech you bring not as Parallels against our Tradition in hand which is a vast and strong stream other little petty rivulets sprung originally from the Sensations of two or three For then as one side was liable in a thing not known publikly to bely their Senses so the conveyance down of such sleight built Attestations may easily be self-contradictory In a word if you will argue take first into your Thoughts the nature of the Thing you argue against and then fall to work assoon as you will Now if you should chance to say you hold the Sayings of Fathers and Councils some at least to be Certain my Reason tells me from Principles that having renounc't Tradition which onely could ascertain them rational nature in you will not let you have any hearty conceit of their Convictiveness whatever you pretend but that you rawly alledge them and so let them go with a valeant quantum valere possunt That therefore we may have some security more than your bare word which Experience tells us is now affirmative now negative in this point as it best sutes your Interest or after a pretty Indifferent manner half-one-half-tother that your profession of holding to such Authorities is not hollow-hearted but rooted in your Reason 't is just your Readers should expect you would declare in what the virtue of Certifying consists and that They have this virtue This if you do you acquit your self to go to work solidly and you offer us fair play in giving us some hold of your Reason whereas a common Expression gives none This Procedure also will show when apply'd whether you are Justisiable or no for admitting some Authorities of that nature and rejecting others 14. My last request is that if in the course of your Answer you think fit to complain of me for bringing History and other Proofs heretofore commonly without more ado admitted into Incertainty please to amend the fault you finde and settle their Certainty on some better Principles than I have endeavour'd In the mean time 't is Evident my whole Book ayms at settling the Certainty of all Authority by evidencing the Certainty of First Authority upon which the Assuredness of History Fathers Councils Church Faith nay Virtue or Christian Life must all be built This is my way if you judge it incompetent to do the Effect spoken of be pleas'd to manifest it Unfit and show us a Better 15. Perhaps I may have demanded more of you in some particulars than is due from the strict duty of meerly answering in the Schools a bare denial or distinction is enough for a Respondent But I conceive we are not on these terms in regard we are not met face to face where the returns of the one to the other can be quick on every occasion This obliges us for the Readers satisfaction to enlarge our selves and bring reason for everything we affirm or deny lest we should be thought to do it gratis And your case here is particularly disadvantageous For if you go about to overthrow that on which I aym to show the Certainty of all Authority built and yet declare not on what your self hold them built and by your faithful promise to show it shortly give them strong hopes you will perform it you send them away very much dissatisfy'd either with you or with all the Authority in the world though built on Sensitive Knowledge Of which it being impossible Rational Nature should permit them to doubt they must needs dislike your attempt and have an ill conceit of your performance SIR I understand to my exceeding Satisfaction that multitudes of the most Eminent Solid and Ingenuous Wits of our Nation have been diligent perusers of my Book Consider their eyes are upon you while you Answer I am confident they will judge I have requested no more of you in this Letter but what 's reasonably due to their and my satisfaction and so will look your Answer should be correspondent They are weary of endless Contests about Faith and seeing we are not now controverting the signification of some ambiguous Testimony but penetrating deep into the very bowels of a point which is of the greatest concern in the whole world and pursuing in a method likely to decide the clearing of it their expectations are very much erected and attentively observing what will be the issue of this rational combat Frustrate not their desires to see Truth manifested by bringing the Question back from the plain open field of Evidence-in-our-method to a Logomachy or word-skirmish in a Wilderness of Talk out of which the Thread of Grounds or Principles had disent angled it To them therefore as well as your self I address this requesting those of them who are acquainted with my Answerer to press him to do himself me the world his Cause too if it can bear it the right due in Reason and here demanded This Sir if you will perform I shall lay aside the remembrance of the Justice I have to it and look upon it purely as a Favour and most obliging Civility to him who is next to Truth 's Feb. 6th 1665. Your Friend and well-wisher J. S. POSTSCRIPT IF you complain of this Fore-stalling as Unusual as long as it is rational you can have no reason to do so and it will appear such to him that considers it was an unusual Circumstance occasion'd it IT is this I had endeavour'd to bring Controversie from an Endless to a Conclusive Way and both my Reason and Experience made me apprehend my Protestant Answerer would have such strong Inclinations to bring it back into the way of quoting and glossing Testimonies that is into a wordish scanning a great part of all the Libraries in the World that a slender touch at it in my Book was not forcible and express enough to oblige him to take notice of it Having communicated therefore my thoughts with intelligent and ingenuous persons both Catholiks and Protestants and receiv'd their approbation I resolv'd and pursued it as you see And I hope the manifold Usefulness of it as shall be seen what way soever now you take upon you of answering will sufficiently justify my Action FINIS