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ground_n believe_v faith_n good_a 2,481 5 4.3352 3 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A15308 A cleare, sincere, and modest confutation of the vnsound, fraudulent, and intemperate reply of T.F. who is knowne to be Mr. Thomas Fitzherbert now an English Iesuite Wherein also are confuted the chiefest obiections which D. Schulckenius, who is commonly said to be Card. Bellarmine, hath made against Widdrintons [sic] Apologie for the right, or soueraigntie of temporall princes. By Roger Widdrington an English Catholike. Preston, Thomas, 1563-1640. 1616 (1616) STC 25598; ESTC S120047 267,609 417

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hear_v of_o before_o for_o which_o cause_n it_o be_v call_v by_o sigebert_n a_o novelty_n not_o to_o say_v a_o heresy_n and_o since_o that_o time_n there_o have_v ever_o be_v a_o great_a controversy_n say_v azor_n 8._o azor_n tom._n 2._o lib._n 11._o cap._n 5._o q._n 8._o concern_v this_o point_n betwixt_o emperor_n and_o king_n on_o the_o one_o side_n and_o the_o bishop_n or_o pope_n of_o rome_n on_o the_o other_o and_o the_o schoolman_n be_v at_o variance_n about_o the_o same_o and_o as_o yet_o the_o judge_n have_v not_o decide_v it_o say_v trithemius_n and_o very_o many_o doctor_n be_v of_o opinion_n that_o the_o pope_n have_v no_o such_o authority_n say_v almainus_a and_o the_o state_n of_o france_n have_v ever_o maintain_v the_o same_o for_o certain_a say_v pithaeus_n and_o the_o late_a practice_n of_o the_o parliament_n of_o paris_n to_o omit_v all_o the_o authority_n of_o our_o learned_a countryman_n do_v most_o clear_o confirm_v the_o same_o it_o be_v neither_o reason_n nor_o 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adversary_n in_o this_o his_o late_a work_n be_v to_o defend_v the_o new_a oath_n of_o allegiance_n and_o to_o confute_v all_o the_o chief_a argument_n that_o have_v be_v make_v by_o any_o against_o the_o several_a clause_n thereof_o which_o nevertheless_o he_o mean_v no_o other_o way_n to_o perform_v as_o he_o himself_o often_o protest_v but_o only_o by_o show_v probable_o that_o the_o say_a oath_n may_v be_v take_v by_o catholic_n and_o that_o nothing_o have_v be_v hitherto_o or_o can_v be_v object_v against_o it_o which_o have_v not_o be_v or_o can_v be_v probable_o answer_v and_o from_o hence_o my_o adversary_n gather_v certain_a admonition_n to_o the_o reader_n which_o as_o he_o say_v be_v worthy_a to_o be_v note_v 10._o but_o before_o i_o come_v to_o set_v down_o his_o worthy_a admonition_n i_o think_v it_o fit_a to_o put_v thou_o in_o remembrance_n courteous_a reader_n what_o be_v the_o true_a state_n of_o the_o question_n betwixt_o we_o concern_v the_o pope_n power_n to_o depose_v prince_n and_o what_o be_v my_o chief_a intent_n in_o make_v that_o disputation_n of_o the_o oath_n the_o main_a question_n therefore_o betwixt_o i_o and_o these_o my_o adversary_n as_o my_o adversary_n t._n f._n also_o confess_v preface_n confess_v in_o the_o end_n of_o his_o preface_n be_v touch_v the_o pope_n power_n to_o depose_v prince_n which_o special_o be_v deny_v in_o this_o new_a oath_n to_o wit_n whether_o it_o be_v a_o point_n of_o faith_n and_o not_o to_o be_v deny_v by_o any_o catholic_a without_o note_n of_o heresy_n or_o error_n that_o the_o pope_n have_v by_o christ_n his_o institution_n power_n to_o deprive_v temporal_a prince_n of_o their_o kingdom_n for_o any_o crime_n whatsoever_o for_o whereas_o some_o very_o few_o late_a writer_n especial_o card._n bellarmine_n and_o other_o jesuite_n can_v not_o be_v content_a to_o defend_v this_o doctrine_n for_o the_o pope_n power_n call_v it_o temporal_a or_o spiritual_a as_o you_o will_v to_o depose_v prince_n in_o a_o moderate_a manner_n but_o will_v needs_o take_v upon_o they_o to_o make_v it_o a_o point_n of_o the_o catholic_a faith_n and_o clear_o to_o demonstrate_v by_o the_o testimony_n of_o holy_a scripture_n of_o sacred_a counsel_n and_o by_o invincible_a reason_n that_o christ_n have_v give_v to_o s._n peter_n and_o his_o successor_n such_o a_o temporal_a power_n over_o sovereign_a king_n and_o prince_n a_o doctrine_n neither_o practise_v nor_o know_v by_o the_o father_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n and_o which_o have_v be_v a_o chief_a occasion_n why_o this_o kingdom_n be_v depart_v from_o the_o obedience_n to_o the_o see_v apostolic_a and_o to_o condemn_v all_o those_o catholic_n of_o heresy_n who_o do_v not_o run_v with_o they_o in_o this_o their_o violent_a course_n when_o i_o serious_o consider_v with_o myself_o what_o scandal_n this_o new_a doctrine_n maintain_v with_o such_o violence_n bring_v to_o catholic_a religion_n what_o danger_n to_o our_o prince_n and_o country_n and_o what_o great_a calamity_n and_o disgrace_n english_a catholic_n do_v daily_o suffer_v thereby_o as_o not_o be_v account_v true_a and_o loyal_a subject_n to_o their_o prince_n even_o according_a to_o the_o doctrine_n of_o those_o who_o be_v esteem_v to_o be_v the_o chief_a pillar_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n but_o so_o long_o only_o as_o it_o shall_v please_v the_o pope_n i_o think_v myself_o bind_v by_o the_o duty_n which_o i_o do_v owe_v to_o the_o catholic_a religion_n &_o to_o my_o prince_n &_o country_n to_o take_v away_o as_o much_o as_o lie_v in_o i_o notwithstanding_o the_o manifold_a slander_n which_o i_o foresee_v some_o person_n will_v therefore_o raise_v against_o i_o the_o aforesaid_a scandal_n danger_n and_o disgrace_n and_o to_o answer_v probable_o all_o the_o argument_n which_o card._n bellarmine_n have_v from_o the_o chief_a author_n who_o have_v handle_v this_o question_n collect_v to_o demonstrate_v that_o it_o be_v a_o certain_a and_o infallible_a doctrine_n and_o the_o contrary_a not_o so_o much_o a_o opinion_n as_o a_o heresy_n that_o the_o pope_n have_v by_o christ_n his_o institution_n authority_n to_o deprive_v sovereign_a prince_n of_o their_o temporal_a kingdom_n and_o dominion_n 11_o wherefore_o the_o present_a controversy_n betwixt_o i_o and_o my_o adversary_n be_v not_o at_o this_o time_n concern_v the_o absolute_a proposition_n to_o wit_n whether_o the_o pope_n have_v or_o have_v not_o power_n to_o depose_v the_o reason_n why_o i_o do_v not_o dispute_v of_o this_o absolute_a proposition_n i_o will_v declare_v beneath_o 78.79_o beneath_o num._n 78.79_o but_o concern_v the_o modall_n whether_o it_o be_v certain_a without_o controversy_n and_o a_o point_n of_o faith_n that_o the_o pope_n have_v power_n to_o depose_v as_o this_o author_n t._n f._n follow_v card._n bellarmine_n and_o some_o few_o jesuite_n will_v needs_o have_v it_o to_o be_v and_o i_o with_o other_o catholic_n and_o the_o kingdom_n of_o france_n as_o petrus_n pithaeus_n witness_v galli●_n witness_v in_o cod._n libert_n eccles_n galli●_n do_v utter_o deny_v the_o same_o and_o from_o hence_o it_o evident_o follow_v that_o although_o card._n bellarmine_n shall_v allege_v a_o hundred_o catholic_a author_n who_o do_v affirm_v that_o the_o pope_n have_v power_n to_o depose_v prince_n yet_o if_o they_o do_v not_o also_o affirm_v that_o it_o be_v certain_a and_o to_o be_v believe_v as_o a_o point_n of_o faith_n that_o the_o pope_n have_v such_o a_o power_n they_o neither_o confirm_v his_o opinion_n nor_o gainsay_v my_o concern_v the_o present_a controversy_n which_o be_v now_o in_o hand_n and_o thus_o much_o concern_v the_o matter_n and_o manner_n of_o my_o apology_n for_o the_o right_n of_o prince_n now_o touch_v my_o theological_a disputation_n concern_v the_o oath_n of_o allegiance_n although_o in_o very_a deed_n hitherto_o i_o have_v not_o see_v any_o sufficient_a reason_n to_o condemn_v the_o say_a oath_n as_o unlawful_a and_o
entangle_v man_n conscience_n by_o wrangle_v and_o cavil_v while_o first_o he_o require_v evident_a demonstration_n to_o prove_v a_o probable_a doctrine_n and_o second_o dissemble_v the_o true_a state_n of_o the_o question_n confound_v the_o absolute_a proposition_n and_o the_o proof_n thereof_o with_o the_o modall_n which_o distinction_n do_v express_v the_o true_a state_n of_o the_o question_n and_o discover_v both_o his_o fraud_n and_o weakness_n not_o only_o in_o this_o but_o almost_o in_o all_o the_o rest_n of_o he_o reply_v and_o three_o he_o conceal_v the_o answer_n which_o i_o give_v to_o this_o argument_n take_v from_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o pope_n breve_n and_o of_o other_o learned_a man_n and_o also_o the_o reason_n why_o so_o many_o learned_a catholic_n who_o book_n be_v now_o extant_a have_v from_o the_o time_n of_o pope_n gregory_n the_o seven_o defend_v this_o opinion_n for_o the_o pope_n power_n to_o depose_v prince_n and_o thus_o much_o concern_v my_o adversary_n second_o admonition_n the_o weakness_n whereof_o will_v also_o present_o more_o clear_o appear_v by_o my_o answer_n to_o his_o three_o and_o four_o admonition_n 27_o therefore_o it_o be_v to_o be_v consider_v for_o the_o three_o point_n say_v my_o adversary_n 15._o adversary_n nu._n 15._o what_o widdrington_n mean_v by_o a_o probable_a opinion_n or_o a_o probable_a answer_n which_o no_o doubt_n he_o understand_v so_o that_o whatsoever_o he_o say_v must_v be_v hold_v for_o probable_a how_o absurd_a so_o ever_o it_o be_v for_o otherwise_o he_o can_v not_o challenge_v to_o himself_o such_o a_o privilege_n of_o probability_n as_o he_o do_v his_o argument_n and_o answer_n be_v so_o weak_a and_o impertinent_a as_o you_o shall_v find_v they_o to_o be_v in_o which_o respect_n he_o be_v fain_o to_o dissemble_v the_o answer_n already_o make_v by_o some_o to_o his_o former_a argument_n and_o authority_n in_o his_o apology_n whereto_o he_o now_o remit_v his_o reader_n very_o often_o without_o take_v so_o much_o as_o any_o knowledge_n of_o the_o confutation_n thereof_o as_o though_o the_o same_o have_v never_o be_v answer_v or_o that_o every_o assertion_n or_o position_n of_o he_o be_v once_o lay_v down_o must_v needs_o stand_v for_o a_o eternal_a law_n or_o be_v a_o decree_n of_o the_o mede_n and_o persian_n 6._o persian_n dan_n 6._o quod_fw-la non_fw-la licet_fw-la immutari_fw-la 28_o but_o not_o to_o return_v these_o bitter_a speech_n of_o my_o adversary_n back_o upon_o himself_o which_o with_o the_o same_o facility_n and_o with_o far_o better_a reason_n i_o may_v do_v first_o it_o be_v very_o untrue_a that_o i_o take_v probable_a for_o whatsoever_o i_o do_v say_v how_o absurd_a so_o ever_o it_o be_v as_o this_o man_n if_o it_o be_v lawful_a for_o i_o to_o use_v his_o absurd_a word_n very_o absurd_o affirm_v that_o without_o doubt_n i_o do_v neither_o do_v i_o take_v probable_a for_o that_o which_o have_v only_o a_o show_n of_o probability_n as_o cicero_n take_v 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that_o my_o theological_a disputation_n be_v whole_o finish_v and_o in_o the_o press_n before_o the_o reply_v of_o d._n schulkenius_n and_o of_o d._n weston_n and_o also_o my_o adversary_n supplement_n be_v publish_v so_o that_o i_o can_v take_v no_o notice_n of_o they_o in_o my_o disputation_n for_o which_o cause_n i_o be_v constrain_v to_o touch_v they_o brief_o only_a in_o a_o admonition_n to_o the_o reader_n but_o my_o adversary_n himself_o to_o make_v his_o own_o reply_v to_o seem_v the_o more_o probable_a and_o my_o answer_n absurd_a foolish_a impertinent_a ridiculous_a for_o so_o he_o be_v please_v to_o call_v they_o be_v not_o ashamed_a to_o dissemble_v in_o many_o point_v the_o true_a state_n of_o the_o question_n and_o also_o the_o answer_n which_o in_o my_o theological_a disputation_n i_o make_v to_o his_o chief_a reply_v especial_o those_o whereby_o he_o labour_v to_o terrify_v the_o timorous_a conscience_n of_o unlearned_a catholic_n with_o the_o pretence_n of_o his_o new_a catholic_a faith_n with_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o pope_n breve_n and_o the_o testimony_n of_o so_o many_o learned_a man_n who_o have_v condemn_v the_o oath_n as_o contain_v in_o it_o many_o thing_n flat_o contrary_a to_o faith_n and_o salvation_n 29._o now_o let_v we_o see_v his_o four_o consideration_n by_o which_o the_o reader_n may_v perceive_v how_o insufficient_o he_o declare_v what_o be_v a_o probable_a argument_n or_o opinion_n and_o how_o little_a he_o satisfi_v the_o understanding_n of_o unlearned_a catholic_n who_o by_o his_o obscure_a and_o confuse_v description_n of_o a_o probable_a argument_n can_v perceive_v what_o argument_n or_o opinion_n be_v probable_a 17._o probable_a num._n 17._o four_o say_v he_o it_o be_v to_o be_v consider_v that_o to_o make_v a_o argument_n or_o proof_n probable_a it_o suffice_v not_o that_o it_o seem_v good_a and_o true_a in_o it_o self_n but_o it_o must_v also_o be_v able_a in_o some_o sort_n to_o counterpoise_v the_o argument_n and_o proof_n of_o the_o contrary_a opinion_n for_o often_o it_o fall_v out_o that_o the_o reason_n of_o one_o part_n be_v so_o pregnant_a that_o they_o seem_v to_o convince_v and_o yet_o when_o they_o be_v weigh_v with_o the_o reason_n of_o the_o other_o part_n they_o be_v neither_o pregnant_a nor_o so_o much_o as_o probable_a for_o according_a to_o the_o old_a proverb_n one_o tale_n be_v good_a until_o a_o other_o be_v hear_v 30._o to_o which_o purpose_n it_o be_v to_o be_v consider_v that_o many_o heretic_n and_o namely_o the_o arian_n of_o who_o there_o be_v many_o even_o at_o this_o day_n both_o do_v and_o may_v well_o pretend_v a_o far_o great_a probability_n for_o their_o opinion_n than_o widdrington_n do_v or_o can_v for_o he_o consider_v their_o abundant_a allegation_n of_o scripture_n their_o subtle_a shift_n in_o answer_v the_o argument_n and_o objection_n of_o the_o catholic_n the_o great_a multitude_n of_o learned_a man_n of_o their_o sect_n in_o time_n past_a and_o their_o dignity_n in_o the_o church_n the_o conventicle_n assemble_v and_o hold_v in_o their_o favour_n and_o final_o the_o ample_a propagation_n of_o their_o opinion_n and_o sect_n especial_o in_o the_o time_n of_o constantius_n the_o emperor_n for_o which_o respect_v their_o follower_n at_o this_o day_n do_v hold_v their_o doctrine_n not_o only_o for_o probable_a but_o also_o for_o infallible_o true_a and_o condemn_v the_o contrary_a for_o pernicious_a heresy_n whereas_o widdringtons_n ground_n and_o proof_n of_o his_o opinion_n seem_v to_o himself_o so_o weak_a that_o he_o dare_v not_o affirm_v they_o to_o be_v more_o than_o probable_a 31._o therefore_o as_o there_o be_v no_o good_a christian_n that_o do_v now_o hold_v the_o argument_n of_o the_o arrian_n to_o be_v so_o much_o as_o probable_a consider_v the_o potent_a reason_n and_o proof_n of_o the_o catholic_a doctrine_n in_o that_o point_n so_o albeit_o the_o argument_n and_o authority_n which_o widdrington_n produce_v be_v they_o far_o more_o plausible_a and_o pregnant_a than_o they_o be_v yet_o no_o catholic_a can_v esteem_v they_o to_o be_v any_o way_n probable_a be_v compare_v and_o balance_v with_o the_o irrefregable_a proof_n of_o the_o other_o part_n i_o mean_v the_o argument_n and_o necessary_a consequence_n draw_v from_o the_o holy_a scripture_n the_o authority_n of_o almost_o all_o the_o learned_a doctor_n and_o divine_n that_o have_v write_v of_o that_o point_n and_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n for_o some_o hundreth_n of_o year_n confirm_v by_o nine_o or_o ten_o counsel_n 77._o counsel_n s●e_v supplem_n chap._n 2._o num_fw-la 76._o 77._o whereof_o some_o have_v be_v the_o great_a that_o ever_o be_v in_o god_n church_n and_o therefore_o i_o say_v that_o all_o this_o be_v well_o weigh_v no_o catholic_a man_n of_o sound_a wit_n or_o judgement_n can_v imagine_v this_o man_n argument_n which_o he_o himself_o hould_v but_o for_o probable_a to_o have_v
argument_n therefore_o i_o will_v set_v down_o word_n by_o word_n only_o turn_v his_o speech_n to_o the_o priest_n which_o he_o apply_v to_o the_o king_n majesty_n 8_o for_o to_o take_v away_o all_o manner_n of_o evasion_n say_v suarez_n 3._o suarez_n in_o desens_n lib._n 6._o cap._n 3._o i_o demand_v whether_o those_o priest_n do_v understand_v that_o the_o sentence_n of_o the_o pope_n depose_v a_o baptize_v queen_n for_o crime_n may_v be_v just_a or_o they_o believe_v that_o it_o be_v always_o unjust_a the_o first_o they_o will_v not_o in_o my_o opinion_n affirm_v for_o otherwise_o they_o shall_v promise_v a_o most_o wicked_a thing_n to_o wit_n not_o to_o obey_v a_o just_a sentence_n which_o impli_v in_o it_o a_o just_a command_n for_o if_o the_o sentence_n be_v just_a the_o command_n also_o which_o enjoin_v subject_n to_o observe_v it_o must_v also_o be_v just_a see_v that_o otherwise_o it_o can_v be_v put_v in_o execution_n also_o if_o the_o sentence_n of_o deposition_n denounce_v against_o a_o queen_n may_v be_v just_a it_o will_v also_o be_v effectual_a therefore_o it_o have_v the_o effect_n of_o that_o punishment_n which_o it_o impose_v wherefore_o see_v that_o the_o punishment_n impose_v by_o the_o sentence_n of_o deposition_n from_o her_o kingdom_n be_v to_o deprive_v she_o actual_o or_o effectual_o of_o her_o dominion_n and_o property_n to_o her_o kingdom_n a_o just_a sentence_n do_v effectual_o deprive_v she_o of_o her_o kingdom_n therefore_o it_o be_v against_o justice_n and_o obedience_n due_a unto_o the_o pope_n to_o resist_v that_o sentence_n and_o to_o defend_v the_o queen_n person_n against_o the_o execution_n of_o that_o sentence_n therefore_o he_o that_o believe_v the_o first_o and_o nevertheless_o promise_v this_o second_o do_v promise_v a_o thing_n clear_o unjust_a and_o wicked_a 9_o and_o beside_o it_o impli_v a_o contradiction_n to_o be_v willing_a to_o yield_v obedience_n and_o allegiance_n as_o think_v thyself_o bind_v so_o to_o do_v to_o one_o who_o thou_o know_v to_o be_v by_o a_o just_a declaration_n and_o sentence_n effectual_o depose_v from_o her_o kingdom_n as_o if_o the_o pope_n himself_o shall_v exact_v of_o christian_n a_o promise_n that_o notwithstanding_o any_o sentence_n or_o declaration_n of_o depose_v he_o for_o any_o crime_n even_o for_o heresy_n denounce_v by_o whatsoever_o general_a council_n they_o will_v defend_v he_o in_o his_o see_n and_o will_v yield_v he_o the_o same_o obedience_n and_o allegiance_n their_o promise_n be_v wicked_a for_o that_o it_o be_v a_o wicked_a thing_n and_o against_o the_o church_n &_o faith_n such_o therefore_o be_v the_o promise_n of_o those_o priest_n if_o the_o aforesaid_a sentence_n against_o the_o queen_n be_v suppose_v to_o be_v just_a this_o therefore_o those_o priest_n without_o doubt_n will_v not_o admit_v neither_o also_o be_v they_o as_o i_o think_v so_o inconsiderate_a of_o their_o affair_n that_o if_o they_o grant_v the_o pope_n sentence_n denounce_v against_o a_o queen_n may_v be_v just_a nevertheless_o they_o will_v deny_v that_o against_o the_o queen_n of_o england_n it_o may_v have_v the_o same_o justice_n for_o what_o great_a immunity_n or_o innocence_n can_v they_o allege_v in_o the_o queen_n of_o england_n then_o in_o other_o prince_n who_o have_v be_v rebel_n to_o the_o roman_a church_n or_o forsaker_n and_o impugner_n of_o the_o faith_n or_o although_o they_o do_v not_o acknowledge_v that_o the_o queen_n for_o that_o time_n have_v not_o commit_v any_o thing_n worthy_a of_o deposition_n how_o do_v they_o know_v that_o for_o the_o time_n to_o come_v she_o can_v and_o yet_o their_o promise_n be_v absolute_a notwithstanding_o any_o authority_n or_o any_o sentence_n of_o excommunication_n denounce_v or_o to_o be_v denounce_v against_o the_o queen_n or_o every_o one_o bear_v within_o her_o majesty_n dominion_n etc._n etc._n wherefore_o there_o be_v no_o doubt_n but_o that_o the_o ground_n of_o this_o promise_n and_o profession_n be_v that_o such_o a_o sentence_n can_v be_v just_a wherefore_o from_o hence_o we_o evident_o conclude_v that_o those_o priest_n by_o the_o aforesaid_a word_n do_v profess_v that_o the_o sentence_n of_o deposition_n against_o the_o queen_n can_v neither_o be_v valid_a nor_o just_a for_o in_o very_a deed_n this_o they_o do_v profess_v when_o they_o promise_v not_o to_o obey_v nor_o to_o observe_v such_o a_o sentence_n 10._o whereupon_o we_o do_v moreover_o conclude_v that_o those_o priest_n do_v profess_v that_o the_o pope_n have_v not_o power_n to_o denounce_v such_o a_o sentence_n see_v that_o for_o no_o other_o cause_n they_o do_v believe_v the_o sentence_n to_o be_v unjust_a but_o for_o that_o it_o be_v give_v without_o power_n and_o jurisdiction_n in_o the_o pope_n to_o depose_v a_o queen_n neither_o can_v those_o priest_n allege_v in_o such_o a_o sentence_n any_o other_o cause_n of_o injustice_n which_o be_v perpetual_a and_o may_v be_v a_o ground_n of_o this_o part_n of_o their_o profession_n for_o their_o profession_n do_v not_o speak_v of_o a_o sentence_n already_o denounce_v but_o absolute_o of_o a_o sentence_n denounce_v or_o to_o be_v denounce_v against_o the_o queen_n therefore_o it_o do_v comprehend_v every_o sentence_n whether_o it_o be_v give_v the_o party_n be_v hear_v or_o not_o hear_v whether_o for_o disagreement_n in_o religion_n or_o for_o any_o other_o crime_n or_o cause_n whatsoever_o wherefore_o the_o injustice_n which_o those_o priest_n do_v suppose_v to_o be_v in_o that_o sentence_n and_o whereupon_o they_o ground_n their_o profession_n be_v no_o other_o but_o for_o that_o they_o believe_v that_o it_o can_v proceed_v from_o a_o lawful_a power_n and_o jurisdiction_n and_o therefore_o i_o conclude_v that_o they_o profess_v that_o the_o pope_n have_v not_o power_n and_o jurisdiction_n to_o give_v a_o sentence_n of_o deposition_n against_o the_o queen_n for_o any_o cause_n thus_o argue_v father_n suarez_n so_o that_o it_o be_v evident_a that_o those_o thirteen_o reverend_a priest_n must_v of_o necessity_n suppose_v if_o they_o will_v have_v their_o protestation_n and_o promise_n to_o be_v just_a and_o lawful_a that_o the_o pope_n have_v no_o power_n to_o deprive_v prince_n of_o their_o regal_a right_n and_o authority_n 11._o and_o by_o this_o five_o testimony_n it_o be_v also_o apparent_a that_o not_o only_a m._n doctor_n barclay_n and_o widdrington_n as_o card._n bellarmine_n in_o his_o book_n against_o barclay_n and_o now_o in_o his_o sculckenius_n against_o i_o untrue_o affirm_v but_o many_o other_o english_a catholic_n to_o omit_v those_o other_o learned_a catholic_n of_o other_o country_n of_o who_o i_o have_v speak_v before_o and_o the_o kingdom_n and_o state_n of_o france_n of_o which_o i_o will_v speak_v beneath_o chapter_n beneath_o in_o the_o next_o chapter_n be_v of_o opinion_n that_o the_o pope_n have_v no_o authority_n to_o deprive_v sovereign_a prince_n of_o their_o temporal_a kingdom_n and_o dominion_n which_o also_o may_v moreover_o be_v confirm_v by_o the_o petition_n which_o some_o english_a catholic_n do_v exhibit_v to_o queen_n elizabeth_n decease_v after_o the_o discovery_n of_o parries_n conspiracy_n wherein_o these_o express_a word_n be_v contain_v in_o consideration_n of_o all_o which_o necessary_a point_n we_o do_v protest_v before_o the_o true_a live_a god_n that_o all_o and_o every_o priest_n and_o priest_n who_o have_v at_o any_o time_n converse_v with_o we_o have_v recognize_v your_o majesty_n their_o undoubted_a and_o lawful_a queen_n tam_fw-la de_fw-la jure_fw-la quam_fw-la de_fw-la facto_fw-la who_o nevertheless_o be_v at_o that_o time_n and_o long_o before_o deprive_v of_o her_o princely_a power_n right_a and_o dignity_n by_o the_o public_a sentence_n of_o pope_n pius_n the_o five_o 12._o and_o to_o these_o authority_n we_o may_v add_v the_o testimony_n set_v down_o in_o the_o end_n of_o mr._n blackwells_n latin_a examination_n of_o bishop_n watson_n abbot_n fernam_fw-la doctor_n cole_n john_n harpesfield_n and_o nicolas_n harpesfield_n all_o of_o they_o very_o famous_a and_o learned_a catholic_n who_o upon_o the_o publish_n of_o the_o bull_n of_o pius_fw-la quintus_fw-la against_o queen_n elizabeth_n be_v examine_v by_o the_o magistrate_n in_o the_o year_n 1578._o and_o demand_v whether_o notwithstanding_o the_o aforesaid_a bull_n or_o any_o other_o sentence_n of_o the_o pope_n denounce_v or_o hereafter_o to_o be_v denounce_v against_o the_o say_a queen_n they_o do_v think_v that_o she_o be_v their_o true_a and_o lawful_a queen_n and_o that_o they_o and_o all_o other_o english_a and_o irish_a man_n do_v as_o subject_n owe_v to_o her_o majesty_n obedience_n faith_n and_o loyalty_n as_o to_o their_o lawful_a and_o true_a queen_n and_o sovereign_a prince_n they_o do_v all_o with_o uniform_a consent_n acknowledge_v and_o confess_v that_o notwithstanding_o the_o aforesaid_a bull_n or_o any_o other_o sentence_n or_o declaration_n of_o the_o pope_n already_o denounce_v or_o hereafter_o to_o be_v denounce_v
5._o p._n 203._o that_o which_o my_o adversary_n widdrington_n say_v that_o the_o mystical_a body_n church_n or_o christian_a commonwealth_n be_v compound_v of_o spiritual_a authority_n alone_o be_v true_a in_o this_o sense_n that_o to_o compound_v the_o christian_a commonwealth_n there_o be_v not_o necessary_a a_o power_n which_o be_v formal_o civil_a but_o yet_o there_o be_v necessary_a a_o power_n which_o be_v so_o formal_o spiritual_a that_o it_o be_v also_o virtual_o civil_a etc._n etc._n for_o how_o can_v the_o church_n of_o christ_n be_v compound_v of_o civil_a and_o spiritual_a power_n which_o be_v formal_o two_o distinct_a power_n and_o yet_o the_o church_n not_o have_v power_n which_o be_v formal_o civil_a but_o only_o spiritual_a nevertheless_o i_o do_v not_o intend_v to_o deny_v that_o the_o spiritual_a or_o ecclesiastical_a power_n among_o christian_n may_v in_o this_o sense_n be_v call_v virtual_o civil_a or_o temporal_a because_o it_o may_v for_o the_o spiritual_a good_a command_n and_o compel_v spiritual_o temporal_a prince_n to_o use_v their_o temporal_a power_n for_o this_o be_v only_o to_o contend_v about_o word_n but_o that_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n whereof_o the_o pope_n be_v head_n be_v true_o proper_o and_o formal_o compound_v of_o civil_a and_o spiritualll_v power_n this_o i_o say_v be_v both_o untrue_a and_o also_o flat_o contrary_a to_o card._n bellarmine_n own_o ground_n but_o whether_o the_o spiritual_a power_n of_o the_o church_n may_v be_v call_v virtual_o civil_a or_o temporal_a for_o that_o it_o may_v also_o constrain_v and_o punish_v temporal_a prince_n temporal_o or_o use_v temporal_a and_o civil_a authority_n in_o case_n the_o temporal_a prince_n for_o the_o spiritual_a good_a will_v not_o use_v it_o this_o be_v the_o main_a question_n betwixt_o i_o and_o card._n bellarmine_n 7._o to_o conclude_v therefore_o this_o answer_n i_o do_v free_o grant_v that_o king_n and_o bishop_n clerk_n and_o laic_n as_o by_o baptism_n they_o be_v regenerate_v in_o christ_n do_v true_o proper_o and_o formal_o make_v one_o entire_a and_o total_a body_n which_o be_v the_o spiritual_a kingdom_n and_o church_n of_o christ_n whereof_o the_o pope_n be_v the_o supreme_a visible_a head_n but_o i_o utter_o deny_v that_o this_o spiritual_a kingdom_n or_o church_n of_o christ_n be_v compound_v of_o spiritual_a and_o temporal_a but_o only_o of_o spiritual_a or_o ecclesiastical_a power_n or_o that_o clerk_n and_o laic_n as_o they_o be_v citizen_n or_o by_o their_o natural_a birth_n be_v subject_a in_o temporal_a affair_n to_o temporal_a prince_n do_v compound_v this_o church_n of_o christ_n but_o only_o the_o earthly_a kingdom_n of_o the_o christian_a world_n which_o be_v only_o compound_v of_o civil_a and_o temporal_a authority_n in_o which_o christian_n world_n or_o christian_a commonwealth_n take_v they_o for_o a_o aggregatum_fw-la per_fw-la accidens_fw-la include_v both_o the_o spiritual_a kingdom_n of_o christ_n whereof_o the_o pope_n be_v head_n and_o also_o earthly_a kingdom_n whereof_o christian_a prince_n be_v the_o only_a visible_a head_n for_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n be_v seldom_o time_n take_v in_o this_o sense_n there_o be_v but_o one_o total_a or_o entire_a catholic_a church_n yet_o there_o be_v many_o entire_a temporal_a kingdom_n or_o commonwealth_n as_o of_o english_a french_a spanish_a which_o have_v their_o several_a prince_n law_n and_o government_n and_o have_v no_o other_o communion_n then_o in_o friendship_n and_o amity_n yea_o &_o the_o catholic_a church_n be_v one_o total_a body_n or_o commonwealth_n in_o christian_a and_o infidel_n kingdom_n and_o also_o in_o one_o particular_a christian_a kingdom_n there_o be_v two_o distinct_a total_a body_n or_o commonwealth_n to_o wit_n the_o temporal_a consist_v of_o civil_a power_n and_o the_o ecclesiastical_a consist_v of_o spiritual_a wherein_o as_o there_o be_v two_o distinct_a communion_n the_o one_o spiritual_a in_o thing_n belong_v to_o grace_n and_o the_o other_o temporal_a in_o thing_n belong_v to_o nature_n so_o also_o their_o be_n two_o excommunication_n the_o one_o in_o spiritual_n wherein_o those_o that_o be_v excommunicate_v by_o the_o church_n do_v not_o participate_v and_o the_o other_o in_o temporall_n whereof_o those_o who_o be_v excommunicate_v or_o make_v outlaw_n by_o temporal_a prince_n be_v not_o partaker_n in_o so_o much_o that_o they_o who_o be_v deprive_v of_o one_o of_o these_o communion_n be_v not_o thereby_o deprive_v of_o the_o other_o for_o a_o outlaw_n may_v be_v a_o member_n of_o the_o church_n and_o be_v partaker_n of_o spiritual_a communion_n and_o he_o who_o by_o excommunication_n be_v deprive_v of_o ecclesiastical_a communion_n may_v be_v a_o member_n of_o the_o civil_a commonwealth_n as_o heathen_n and_o publican_n be_v and_o not_o therefore_o to_o be_v exclude_v from_o civil_a society_n and_o conversation_n 8._o wherefore_o although_o the_o temporal_a and_o spiritual_a power_n among_o christian_n as_o they_o be_v refer_v to_o the_o visible_a head_n thereof_o do_v true_o proper_o and_o formal_o make_v diverse_a total_a body_n or_o commonwealth_n which_o nevertheless_o ought_v both_o to_o conspire_v in_o league_n &_o friendship_n to_o bring_v both_o prince_n and_o subject_n to_o life_n everlasting_a yet_o they_o be_v not_o like_a to_o two_o confederate_a city_n or_o kingdom_n which_o be_v only_o unite_v in_o league_n and_o amity_n and_o have_v no_o civil_a communion_n one_o with_o the_o other_o neither_o be_v the_o same_o man_n a_o citizen_n of_o both_o city_n or_o a_o subject_n of_o both_o kingdom_n but_o the_o temporal_a and_o spiritual_a power_n be_v so_o unite_v among_o christian_n that_o the_o same_o man_n who_o by_o civil_a conversation_n or_o natural_a birth_n be_v a_o citizen_n part_n and_o member_n of_o the_o temporal_a city_n kingdom_n or_o commonwealth_n and_o consequent_o subject_a to_o her_o law_n be_v also_o by_o baptism_n or_o spiritual_a regeneration_n make_v a_o citizen_n part_n or_o member_n of_o the_o spiritual_a city_n kingdom_n or_o commonwealth_n which_o be_v the_o church_n of_o christ_n and_o consequent_o be_v also_o subject_a to_o her_o law_n so_o that_o although_o the_o union_n and_o communion_n of_o earthly_a kingdom_n and_o the_o spiritual_a kingdom_n of_o christ_n be_v great_a among_o christian_n then_o of_o two_o confederate_a city_n or_o temporal_a kingdom_n yet_o this_o union_n and_o communion_n be_v only_o material_a accidental_a and_o in_o subject_n as_o music_n and_o physic_n be_v unite_v in_o one_o man_n by_o reason_n whereof_o the_o same_o man_n be_v both_o a_o musician_n and_o a_o physician_n and_o consequent_o subject_a to_o the_o precept_n and_o direction_n of_o either_o art_n be_v not_o sufficient_a to_o cause_v they_o to_o make_v true_o proper_o and_o formal_o one_o total_a body_n kingdom_n or_o commonwealth_n whereof_o the_o pope_n be_v head_n as_o neither_o the_o union_n of_o two_o accident_n in_o one_o subject_n be_v sufficient_a to_o cause_v they_o to_o make_v true_o proper_o and_o formal_o one_o entire_a &_o total_a accidental_a compound_n nevertheless_o i_o do_v not_o deny_v as_o i_o observe_v before_o but_o that_o the_o temporal_a &_o spiritual_a power_n earthly_a kingdom_n and_o the_o spiritual_a kingdom_n of_o christ_n as_o they_o be_v refer_v to_o christ_n who_o at_o leastwise_o as_o god_n be_v the_o head_n of_o they_o both_o do_v make_v one_o total_a body_n whereof_o christ_n only_o be_v the_o head_n which_o may_v be_v call_v the_o christian_a world_n consist_v of_o civil_a and_o spiritual_a power_n but_o in_o this_o manner_n neither_o the_o pope_n nor_o temporal_a prince_n be_v the_o head_n but_o only_a part_n and_o member_n of_o this_o total_a body_n as_o beneath_o 4._o beneath_o cap._n 1._o nu_fw-la 4._o i_o will_v declare_v more_o at_o large_a chap._n 3._o wherein_o the_o authority_n of_o s._n gregory_n nazianzen_n compare_v the_o temporal_a and_o spiritual_a power_n to_o the_o body_n and_o soul_n in_o man_n be_v declare_v 1._o the_o second_o argument_n which_o card._n bellarmine_n bring_v to_o prove_v that_o the_o civil_a and_o spiritual_a power_n among_o christian_n do_v make_v one_o total_a body_n or_o commonwealth_n be_v take_v from_o the_o authority_n of_o s._n gregory_n nazianzene_n who_o compare_v the_o spiritual_a and_o temporal_a power_n among_o christian_n to_o the_o soul_n and_o body_n of_o man_n from_o which_o similitude_n card._n bellarmine_n argue_v in_o this_o manner_n 6._o manner_n lib._n 5._o de_fw-fr rom._n pont._n c._n 6._o these_o two_o power_n in_o the_o church_n say_v he_o be_v like_a to_o the_o spirit_n and_o body_n in_o a_o man_n for_o the_o body_n &_o the_o spirit_n be_v as_o it_o be_v two_o commonwealth_n which_o may_v be_v find_v divide_v and_o unite_v the_o body_n be_v find_v without_o the_o spirit_n in_o beast_n the_o spirit_n be_v find_v without_o the_o body_n in_o angel_n the_o body_n and_o spirit_n be_v both_o unite_v in_o man_n and_o do_v make_v
the_o second_o opinion_n in_o this_o that_o the_o pope_n have_v power_n to_o command_v temporal_a prince_n in_o spiritual_n but_o not_o in_o mere_a temporal_n and_o to_o punish_v they_o with_o spiritual_a punishment_n when_o they_o refuse_v to_o obey_v his_o just_a command_n yet_o that_o the_o pope_n have_v any_o coercive_v power_n call_v it_o spiritual_a or_o temporal_a for_o in_o effect_v it_o be_v true_o temporal_a to_o inflict_v temporal_a punishment_n to_o dispose_v of_o temporal_n for_o the_o spiritual_a good_a or_o to_o deprive_v temporal_a prince_n of_o their_o temporal_a dominion_n they_o utter_o deny_v affirm_v that_o only_a excommunication_n or_o some_o such_o like_a spiritual_a punishment_n be_v the_o last_o to_o which_o the_o pope_n coercive_v power_n can_v extend_v and_o this_o their_o doctrine_n which_o card._n bellarmine_n and_o some_o few_o other_o of_o his_o society_n have_v presume_v to_o condemn_v as_o altogether_o improbable_a yea_o and_o whole_o repugnant_a to_o catholic_a faith_n i_o have_v take_v upon_o i_o to_o maintain_v as_o neither_o repugnant_a to_o catholic_a faith_n or_o religion_n nor_o prejudicial_a to_o eternal_a salvation_n and_o that_o therefore_o it_o may_v be_v defend_v by_o any_o catholic_a without_o any_o note_n of_o heresy_n error_n or_o temerity_n 7._o these_o be_v the_o different_a opinion_n of_o catholic_n concern_v the_o subjection_n of_o the_o temporal_a power_n to_o the_o spiritual_a whereby_o you_o see_v that_o although_o all_o catholic_n do_v grant_v that_o temporal_a prince_n who_o be_v sometime_o call_v temporal_a power_n be_v subject_a to_o the_o spiritual_a pastor_n in_o thing_n spiritual_a and_o in_o temporal_a when_o they_o become_v spiritual_a yet_o all_o do_v not_o grant_v that_o the_o temporal_a power_n itself_o even_o among_o christian_n be_v per_fw-la se_fw-la and_o of_o it_o own_o nature_n subject_a to_o the_o spiritual_a nor_o that_o the_o pope_n as_o pope_n have_v any_o coercive_v power_n to_o constrain_v and_o punish_v with_o temporal_a punishment_n but_o only_o with_o spiritual_a neither_o do_v it_o follow_v that_o because_o christian_a prince_n be_v subject_a to_o the_o pope_n therefore_o they_o be_v subject_a in_o all_o thing_n and_o in_o all_o manner_n of_o subjection_n but_o only_o in_o that_o sort_n as_o christ_n have_v give_v he_o power_n both_o to_o command_v &_o punish_v as_o child_n be_v subject_a to_o their_o parent_n servant_n to_o their_o master_n wife_n to_o their_o husband_n yet_o they_o be_v not_o bind_v to_o obey_v they_o but_o in_o those_o thing_n wherein_o they_o have_v power_n to_o command_v nor_o to_o be_v punish_v by_o they_o but_o in_o that_o sort_n as_o the_o temporal_a commonwealth_n whereof_o they_o be_v member_n have_v express_o or_o covert_o give_v they_o leave_v to_o punish_v and_o the_o reason_n be_v for_o that_o they_o be_v not_o superior_n in_o a_o absolute_a and_o indefinite_a but_o only_o in_o a_o limit_a and_o determinate_a manner_n 8._o now_o what_o opinion_n card._n bellarmine_n do_v follow_v whether_o of_o the_o divine_n or_o of_o the_o canonist_n true_o i_o can_v as_o yet_o well_o understand_v for_o although_o he_o seem_v to_o disallow_v the_o canonist_n doctrine_n which_o at_o large_a he_o confute_v in_o his_o controversy_n yet_o to_o prove_v the_o pope_n power_n to_o depose_v prince_n and_o to_o dispose_v of_o temporal_n in_o order_n to_o spiritual_a good_a he_o lay_v such_o ground_n concern_v the_o union_n and_o subordination_n of_o the_o temporal_a and_o spiritual_a power_n among_o christian_n which_o do_v clear_o confirm_v the_o canonist_n doctrine_n for_o concern_v the_o union_n of_o these_o two_o power_n he_o affirm_v as_o you_o have_v see_v that_o the_o temporal_a and_o spiritual_a power_n the_o kingdom_n of_o christ_n and_o the_o kingdom_n of_o this_o world_n when_o they_o be_v christian_n do_v make_v one_o total_a body_n which_o be_v the_o christian_a commonwealth_n and_o church_n of_o christ_n whereof_o the_o pope_n be_v head_n from_o whence_o it_o necessary_o follow_v that_o the_o pope_n in_o who_o all_o the_o power_n of_o the_o church_n do_v reside_v must_v have_v true_o proper_o and_o formal_o both_o civil_a and_o spiritual_a power_n which_o be_v the_o canonist_n opinion_n and_o not_o only_o spiritual_a power_n which_o be_v not_o formal_o but_o only_o virtual_o civil_a which_o the_o divine_n and_o also_o card._n bellarmine_n in_o place_n do_v affirm_v and_o now_o concern_v the_o subjection_n and_o subordination_n of_o these_o two_o power_n he_o affirm_v that_o the_o temporal_a power_n among_o christian_n not_o only_o as_o it_o be_v christian_a but_o also_o as_o it_o be_v temporal_a be_v subject_a to_o the_o ecclesiastical_a as_o it_o be_v ecclesiastical_a or_o which_o be_v all_o one_o that_o the_o temporal_a power_n itself_o among_o christian_n be_v per_fw-la se_fw-la and_o of_o it_o own_o nature_n subject_a to_o the_o spiritual_a from_o whence_o it_o clear_o follow_v as_o before_o i_o show_v by_o the_o example_n of_o music_n and_o physic_n christian_a prince_n not_o only_o in_o spiritual_n and_o in_o temporal_n when_o they_o become_v spiritual_n which_o be_v in_o order_n to_o spiritual_a good_a but_o also_o in_o mere_a temporal_a cause_n be_v subject_a to_o spiritual_a pastor_n which_o be_v the_o canonist_n opinion_n and_o which_o card._n bellarmine_n in_o other_o place_n do_v disproove_v 9_o but_o how_o unsound_o card._n bellarmine_n and_o not_o conformable_o to_o his_o own_o ground_n labour_v to_o prove_v that_o the_o temporal_a power_n itself_o among_o christian_n as_o it_o be_v temporal_a be_v subject_a to_o the_o spiritual_a as_o it_o be_v spiritual_a you_o shall_v anon_o perceive_v for_o six_o principal_a argument_n i_o do_v find_v in_o card._n bellarmine_n by_o which_o he_o endeavour_v to_o convince_v that_o the_o temporal_a power_n itself_o among_o christian_n as_o it_o be_v temporal_a be_v subject_a and_o subordain_v to_o the_o spiritual_a as_o it_o be_v spiritual_a or_o which_o i_o take_v for_o all_o one_o that_o the_o temporal_a power_n among_o christian_n be_v per_fw-la se_fw-la and_o of_o it_o own_o nature_n suppose_v the_o institution_n of_o christ_n subject_n and_o subordain_v to_o the_o spiritual_a which_o argument_n of_o card._n bellarmine_n i_o think_v it_o fit_a to_o examine_v in_o this_o place_n together_o with_o the_o reply_v which_o he_o either_o in_o his_o book_n against_o d._n barclay_n or_o in_o his_o schulckenius_n against_o i_o have_v bring_v to_o confirm_v the_o same_o that_o thereby_o the_o reader_n may_v full_o understand_v in_o what_o manner_n the_o temporal_a power_n be_v subject_a to_o the_o spiritual_a and_o how_o strong_a or_o weak_a a_o proof_n be_v the_o subjection_n or_o subordination_n of_o these_o two_o power_n which_o be_v by_o mr._n fitzherbert_n suppose_v to_o be_v so_o invinsible_a a_o ground_n to_o conclude_v from_o thence_o that_o the_o pope_n as_o pope_n have_v power_n in_o order_n to_o spiritual_a good_a to_o dispose_v of_o all_o temporall_n to_o depose_v temporal_a prince_n and_o to_o punish_v by_o way_n of_o coercion_n with_o all_o kind_n of_o temporal_a punishment_n chap._n 5._o wherein_o be_v examine_v card._n bellarmine_n first_o argument_n take_v from_o the_o end_n of_o the_o temporal_a and_o spiritual_a power_n 1._o the_o first_o argument_n which_o card._n bellarmine_n affirm_v 7._o affirm_v lib._n 5._o de_fw-fr rom_n pont._n c._n 7._o to_o demonstrate_v that_o the_o temporal_a power_n among_o christian_n not_o only_o as_o it_o be_v christian_a but_o also_o as_o it_o be_v civil_a or_o temporal_a be_v subject_a to_o the_o ecclesiastical_a as_o it_o be_v ecclesiastical_a be_v take_v from_o the_o end_n of_o both_o the_o power_n for_o a_o temporal_a end_n say_v he_o be_v subordain_v to_o a_o spiritual_a end_n as_o it_o be_v manifest_a because_o temporal_a felicity_n be_v not_o absolute_o the_o last_o end_n and_o therefore_o it_o ought_v to_o be_v refer_v to_o eternal_a felicity_n but_o it_o be_v apparent_a out_o of_o aristotle_n 1_o ethic._n cap._n 1._o that_o faculty_n or_o power_n be_v so_o subordain_v as_o their_o end_n be_v subordain_v 2._o to_o this_o argument_n i_o answer_v in_o my_o apology_n seq_fw-la apology_n num._n 162._o &_o seq_fw-la that_o not_o every_o temporal_a end_n be_v per_fw-la se_fw-la and_o of_o it_o own_o nature_n ordain_v or_o subordain_v to_o a_o spiritual_a end_n speak_v of_o create_v end_n and_o not_o of_o god_n almighty_a who_o be_v the_o beginning_n and_o end_n of_o all_o thing_n but_o it_o be_v only_o by_o accident_n or_o accidental_o by_o man_n who_o work_v for_o a_o end_n ordain_v to_o a_o spiritual_a end_n and_o therefore_o although_o temporal_a good_a or_o felicity_n be_v not_o absolute_o the_o last_o end_n of_o man_n yet_o it_o be_v the_o last_o end_n of_o the_o temporal_a power_n itself_o which_o be_v in_o man_n for_o every_o power_n as_o it_o be_v a_o power_n have_v for_o her_o last_o end_n her_o act_n