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Word A Word B Word C Word D Occurrence Frequency Band MI MI Band Prominent
ground_n believe_v church_n faith_n 6,736 5 6.2916 4 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A27380 Tradidi vobis, or, The traditionary conveyance of faith cleer'd in the rational way against the exceptions of a learned opponent / by J.B., Esquire. J. B. (John Belson), fl. 1688. 1662 (1662) Wing B1861; ESTC R4578 124,753 322

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tradition_n i_o be_o ready_a to_o embrace_v it_o be_v clear_a how_o high_a he_o value_v the_o church_n authority_n in_o that_o lib._n 2._o the_o util_a cred_a c._n 14._o this_o therefore_o i_o believe_v by_o fame_n strengthen_v by_o celebrity_n consent_n antiquity_n so_o that_o he_o do_v no_o more_o than_o we_o who_o notwithstanding_o be_v of_o a_o contrary_a mind_n to_o you_o ¶_o 3._o first_o we_o believe_v the_o thing_n of_o religion_n because_o they_o be_v publish_v and_o hold_v in_o that_o church_n or_o place_n where_o we_o live_v yet_o not_o sufficient_o for_o that_o not_o a_o sufficient_a ground_n of_o belief_n because_o of_o fame_n till_o the_o universal_a celebrity_n consent_n and_o antiquity_n do_v strengthen_v it_o he_o see_v not_o christ_n have_v recommend_v the_o church_n for_o a_o infallible_a decider_n of_o emergent_a controversy_n but_o for_o a_o credible_a witness_n of_o ancient_a tradition_n whosoever_o therefore_o refuse_v to_o follow_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n understand_v of_o all_o place_n and_o age_n in_o thing_n clear_o descend_v from_o christ_n let_v he_o be_v look_v upon_o to_o refuse_v christ_n but_o if_o he_o be_v understand_v any_o where_o assert_v only_o the_o present_a church_n authority_n sufficient_a to_o determine_v it_o must_v be_v in_o thing_n that_o be_v not_o matter_n of_o faith_n that_o which_o he_o prove_v by_o tradition_n he_o do_v not_o affirm_v it_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n or_o thing_n contain_v in_o scripture_n for_o his_o augustine_n word_n be_v evident_a ¶_o 4._o in_o iis_fw-la quae_fw-la apertè_fw-la posita_fw-la sunt_fw-la in_o sacris_fw-la scripture_n omne_fw-la ea_fw-la reperiuntur_fw-la quae_fw-la continent_n fidem_fw-la moresque_fw-la vivendi_fw-la aug._n the_o doct_n christiana_n lib._n 2._o c._n 9_o nemo_fw-la mihi_fw-la dicat_fw-la o_fw-la quid_fw-la dexit_fw-la donatus_n aut_fw-la quid_fw-la dexit_fw-la parm._n aut_fw-la pontus_n aut_fw-la quilibet_fw-la eorum_fw-la quia_fw-la non_fw-la 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his_o meaning_n suppose_v only_o i_o grant_v the_o conclusion_n i_o think_v he_o do_v not_o conclude_v what_o he_o be_v to_o prove_v which_o shall_v be_v this_o therefore_o that_o age_n be_v not_o the_o first_o that_o hold_v her_o doctrine_n upon_o that_o maxim_n but_o to_o the_o other_o part_n of_o the_o dilemma_n more_o full_o ¶_o 3._o you_o choose_v to_o fall_v upon_o the_o second_o horn_n of_o the_o dilemma_n who_o sharpness_n we_o shall_v present_o try_v after_o i_o have_v assure_v you_o that_o by_o assurance_n he_o mean_v absolute_a certainty_n which_o there_o be_v no_o deny_v but_o that_o she_o either_o have_v or_o have_v not_o in_o the_o first_o case_n his_o discourse_n run_v thus_o she_o have_v assurance_n in_o the_o eight_o age_n before_o she_o take_v up_o the_o maxim_n say_v to_o be_v new_a therefore_o she_o have_v the_o maxim_n by_o which_o she_o have_v assurance_n before_o this_o maxim_n can_v be_v no_o other_o than_o tradition_n nothing_o else_o be_v able_a to_o give_v 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general_a any_o where_n that_o they_o can_v not_o have_v come_v into_o the_o world_n and_o then_o i_o wish_v exceed_o your_o argument_n be_v true_a the_o heretic_n hold_v no_o error_n because_o he_o hold_v nothing_o be_v to_o be_v embrace_v but_o truth_n be_v not_o this_o the_o very_a same_o argument_n mr_n white_n say_v some_o of_o you_o maintain_v tenet_n in_o other_o term_n that_o be_v condemn_v may_v i_o not_o prove_v the_o contrary_a by_o his_o own_o argument_n the_o error_n can_v not_o enter_v into_o they_o because_o they_o hold_v nothing_o be_v to_o be_v entertain_v as_o of_o faith_n except_o what_o be_v deliver_v to_o they_o by_o the_o former_a this_o be_v the_o very_a argument_n to_o say_v the_o case_n be_v not_o the_o same_o in_o respect_n of_o universality_n be_v not_o to_o the_o purpose_n for_o there_o be_v no_o universality_n mention_v in_o the_o argument_n the_o stress_n be_v not_o yet_o put_v in_o that_o if_o the_o argument_n be_v true_a in_o one_o i_o see_v not_o why_o it_o shall_v not_o be_v in_o another_o ¶_o 4._o but_o you_o take_v the_o second_o part_n in_o which_o case_n he_o press_v you_o deny_v a_o unadmittable_a wilfulness_n let_v we_o see_v the_o supposition_n put_v the_o church_n not_o assure_v whether_o her_o doctrine_n be_v lineal_o descend_v or_o no_o the_o maxim_n make_v she_o oblige_v her_o posterity_n under_o pain_n of_o damnation_n too_o to_o believe_v it_o be_v so_o descend_v that_o be_v to_o believe_v what_o she_o know_v not_o to_o be_v true_a that_o be_v what_o for_o aught_o she_o know_v be_v false_a &_o yet_o you_o discover_v no_o wilfulness_n pray_v can_v reason_n justify_v a_o command_n to_o accept_v that_o for_o true_a which_o the_o commander_n know_v may_v be_v false_a and_o for_o aught_o he_o know_v be_v so_o and_o be_v there_o any_o other_o principle_n of_o action_n beside_o reason_n but_o will_n i_o but_o she_o may_v think_v her_o principle_n true_a when_o it_o be_v not_o but_o what_o if_o no_o great_a wilfulness_n can_v be_v imagine_v then_o to_o think_v so_o for_o you_o must_v mean_v it_o true_a either_o in_o respect_n it_o have_v convey_v the_o true_a faith_n to_o she_o or_o will_v convey_v the_o true_a faith_n to_o her_o posterity_n the_o first_o be_v nonsense_n for_o that_o age_n be_v suppose_v the_o first_o in_o which_o she_o take_v up_o the_o principle_n the_o faith_n she_o have_v must_v of_o necessity_n have_v be_v convey_v to_o she_o by_o some_o other_o the_o second_o be_v as_o bad_a or_o worse_o for_o if_o that_o principle_n be_v the_o test_n of_o true_a faith_n her_o own_o not_o be_v receive_v by_o it_o must_v needs_o be_v think_v not_o to_o be_v true_a &_o that_o be_v the_o faith_n she_o commend_v to_o the_o principle_n to_o be_v convey_v can_v even_o wilfulness_n make_v she_o think_v that_o principle_n will_v convey_v a_o true_a faith_n to_o her_o posterity_n which_o have_v receive_v a_o false_a one_o to_o convey_v but_o she_o may_v say_v you_o think_v her_o doctrine_n true_a as_o teach_v by_o the_o bible_n which_o bible_n be_v hand_v down_o to_o she_o though_o her_o doctrine_n be_v not_o if_o she_o do_v but_o think_v so_o she_o do_v not_o know_v it_o to_o be_v true_a therefore_o it_o be_v not_o certain_a to_o she_o therefore_o but_o probable_a therefore_o to_o recommend_v it_o as_o true_a and_o certain_a which_o to_o she_o be_v not_o so_o be_v to_o do_v what_o she_o have_v no_o ground_n for_o that_o be_v to_o act_v wilful_o again_o if_o she_o think_v herself_o to_o have_v receive_v the_o true_a faith_n from_o the_o bible_n she_o must_v needs_o think_v the_o bible_n a_o mean_n to_o convey_v the_o true_a faith_n to_o she_o that_o be_v a_o true_a rule_n then_o to_o desert_n that_o which_o she_o think_v a_o true_a one_o and_o impose_v another_o as_o the_o only_a true_a one_o beside_o which_o she_o think_v even_o when_o she_o impose_v the_o second_o the_o first_o also_o to_o be_v true_a pray_v what_o name_n can_v it_o own_o but_o wilfulness_n thus_o which_o way_n soever_o we_o turn_v nothing_o appear_v but_o impossibility_n which_o also_o a_o little_a reflect_v on_o will_v be_v discover_v much_o great_a and_o far_o deep_a plunge_v into_o contradiction_n for_o be_v it_o possible_a a_o council_n for_o example_n shall_v be_v so_o malicious_o wilful_a as_o to_o consent_v to_o the_o damnation_n of_o all_o posterity_n mankind_n have_v root_v in_o it_o a_o great_a desire_n of_o its_o own_o good_a then_o to_o be_v so_o cheat_v into_o everlasting_a misery_n especial_o so_o open_o that_o it_o can_v not_o be_v ignorant_a of_o the_o juggle_n but_o neither_o be_v it_o proper_a for_o i_o to_o dilate_v that_o be_o a_o answerer_n neither_o be_v it_o necessary_a to_o one_o that_o see_v day_n so_o soon_o as_o you_o do_v to_o go_v on_o then_o you_o think_v the_o argument_n prove_v against_o all_o error_n if_o any_o thing_n but_o why_o you_o think_v so_o you_o do_v not_o say_v and_o indeed_o i_o can_v guess_v one_o only_a supposition_n seem_v able_a to_o give_v the_o fancy_n any_o colour_n viz._n that_o our_o saviour_n beside_o those_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n teach_v also_o all_o manner_n of_o other_o truth_n whatsoever_o in_o all_o art_n and_o science_n etc._n etc._n all_o which_o be_v equal_o recommend_v to_o tradition_n flow_v down_o in_o the_o same_o great_a channel_n to_o we_o but_o this_o i_o think_v be_v too_o wild_a a_o fancy_n to_o suspect_v you_o of_o next_o you_o parallel_v our_o argument_n with_o one_o you_o frame_v in_o behalf_n of_o a_o heretic_n in_o this_o manner_n he_o hold_v nothing_o be_v to_o be_v embrace_v but_o truth_n therefore_o what_o he_o embrace_v be_v truth_n put_v your_o heretic_n to_o have_v a_o right_a method_n of_o arrive_v at_o truth_n and_o faithful_o to_o pursue_v it_o and_o there_o be_v no_o doubt_n but_o your_o conclusion_n be_v strong_a and_o so_o strong_a that_o it_o quite_o overthrow_v the_o supposition_n for_o he_o can_v in_o that_o case_n be_v a_o heretic_n but_o that_o he_o have_v any_o such_o method_n or_o make_v any_o use_n of_o it_o we_o must_v seek_v elsewhere_o then_o in_o your_o argument_n which_o out_o of_o this_o that_o the_o thing_n shall_v be_v do_v conclude_v it_o be_v do_v by_o the_o sincerity_n you_o profess_v and_o owe_v to_o the_o concern_v of_o eternity_n do_v we_o argue_v in_o that_o manner_n do_v not_o we_o prove_v both_o that_o our_o method_n can_v fail_v we_o and_o that_o we_o never_o fail_v to_o make_v use_n of_o our_o method_n the_o first_o under_o penalty_n of_o this_o evident_a contradiction_n that_o the_o same_o thing_n must_v be_v believe_v before_o and_o not_o before_o the_o same_o time_n the_o second_o by_o the_o impossibility_n that_o mankind_n shall_v conspire_v notorious_o and_o unconcealable_o
to_o cheat_v their_o posterity_n into_o everlasting_a damnation_n and_o be_v this_o to_o say_v the_o conclusion_n over_o in_o the_o antecedent_n and_o then_o infer_v it_o in_o the_o consequent_a beseech_v you_o sir_n restrain_v those_o sally_n of_o wit_n to_o thing_n less_o dangerous_a to_o be_v play_v upon_o then_o salvation_n last_o you_o object_n mr_n whites_n say_v that_o several_a condemn_a tenet_n be_v maintain_v in_o other_o term_n by_o some_o divine_n and_o assume_v that_o these_o divine_n hold_v nothing_o as_o of_o faith_n but_o what_o be_v deliver_v by_o the_o former_a age_n will_v have_v no_o error_n and_o that_o be_v true_a mean_v error_n in_o faith_n but_o divine_n proceed_v upon_o other_o rule_n when_o they_o err_v and_o their_o error_n concern_v no_o faith_n but_o divinity_n it_o may_v indeed_o so_o happen_v that_o these_o error_n in_o divinity_n do_v also_o contradict_v some_o point_n of_o faith_n but_o that_o the_o equivocation_n of_o term_n hinder_v they_o from_o see_v in_o which_o case_n the_o position_n be_v erroneous_a and_o against_o faith_n the_o belief_n of_o the_o maintainer_n who_o see_v not_o so_o much_o very_o good_a and_o unblameable_a now_o if_o i_o understand_v the_o position_n right_a it_o be_v no_o more_o than_o this_o that_o some_o divine_n understand_v not_o the_o force_n of_o term_n use_v by_o themselves_o which_o rigorous_o scan_v may_v happen_v to_o contain_v a_o error_n unperceived_a by_o he_o who_o use_v they_o but_o dive_v not_o so_o far_o into_o they_o remember_v then_o if_o you_o please_v the_o case_n be_v of_o divine_n that_o be_v of_o person_n work_v according_a to_o the_o rule_n of_o science_n not_o of_o faithful_a proceed_n upon_o ground_n of_o faith_n after_o which_o i_o hope_v you_o will_v not_o infer_v a_o error_n in_o the_o rule_n of_o faith_n because_o there_o be_v error_n in_o thing_n conclude_v by_o other_o principle_n ¶_o 5._o and_o true_o if_o i_o have_v eye_n mr_n rushworth_n do_v not_o more_o than_o show_v a_o kind_n of_o possibility_n that_o all_o point_n of_o faith_n can_v have_v be_v hand_v down_o the_o first_o deliver_v they_o to_o the_o second_o age_n the_o three_o hear_v they_o of_o the_o second_o the_o four_o of_o the_o three_o etc._n etc._n but_o be_v this_o a_o prove_v of_o it_o that_o it_o be_v so_o or_o that_o no_o material_a corruption_n can_v have_v creep_v in_o why_o else_o do_v he_o object_n against_o himself_o what_o be_v most_o obvious_a to_o be_v see_v a_o posse_fw-la ad_fw-la esse_fw-la non_fw-la valet_fw-la consequentia_fw-la that_o cut_v the_o throat_n of_o his_o argument_n so_o that_o yet_o there_o be_v no_o certainty_n prove_v that_o which_o he_o answer_v be_v indeed_o reasonable_a you_o shall_v think_v they_o be_v because_o they_o may_v be_v so_o hand_v but_o go_v no_o further_o yet_o till_o you_o prove_v more_o and_o see_v you_o conceive_v a_o possibility_n of_o such_o descent_n remember_v the_o contrary_a possibility_n much_o more_o probable_a that_o there_o may_v be_v error_n creep_v in_o but_o till_o you_o see_v you_o will_v not_o believe_v they_o be_v i_o shall_v not_o entreat_v you_o out_o of_o your_o religion_n only_o i_o beg_v and_o wish_v you_o hold_v no_o more_o than_o your_o argument_n prove_v only_o a_o possibility_n but_o it_o be_v easy_a to_o deviate_v from_o the_o straight_a rule_n of_o truth_n then_o always_o to_o keep_v to_o it_o ¶_o 5._o when_o you_o write_v this_o paragraph_n your_o thought_n certain_o be_v so_o fix_v upon_o the_o place_n in_o which_o your_o objection_n be_v bring_v in_o that_o the_o next_o leaf_n almost_o the_o next_o line_n escape_v their_o observance_n the_o least_o advance_n will_v have_v suggest_v to_o they_o that_o not_o only_o a_o possibility_n of_o preserve_a truth_n but_o a_o plain_a actual_a indefectibility_n be_v aim_v at_o not_o but_o that_o a_o possibility_n be_v enough_o such_o a_o possibility_n i_o mean_v or_o power_n as_o we_o speak_v of_o that_o be_v such_o as_o have_v the_o nature_n of_o a_o proper_a cause_n to_o its_o effect_n that_o be_v which_o shall_v have_v do_v the_o effect_n since_o if_o our_o rule_n be_v proper_a to_o convey_v the_o truth_n to_o we_o no_o body_n can_v rational_o affirm_v it_o have_v not_o do_v what_o it_o be_v grant_v it_o be_v of_o its_o own_o nature_n apt_a to_o do_v without_o evidence_v what_o he_o say_v let_v those_o therefore_o who_o upon_o pretence_n of_o error_n refuse_v communion_n with_o we_o take_v it_o to_o heart_n and_o either_o plain_o evince_v he_o or_o tremble_v at_o the_o horror_n of_o live_v in_o a_o continue_a and_o obstinate_a schism_n as_o for_o the_o edge_n of_o that_o maxim_n a_o posse_fw-la ad_fw-la esse_fw-la non_fw-la valet_fw-la consequentia_fw-la the_o dialogue_n show_v it_o be_v take_v off_o by_o this_o other_o frustra_fw-la est_fw-la potentia_fw-la quae_fw-la nunquam_fw-la reducitur_fw-la in_o actum_fw-la the_o power_n in_o this_o case_n be_v but_o to_o one_o effect_n and_o to_o repeat_v what_o they_o say_v which_o be_v all_o i_o have_v to_o do_v seem_v unnecessary_a to_o guess_v at_o what_o the_o follow_a discourse_n aim_v which_o put_v a_o possibility_n of_o truth_n and_o a_o possibility_n of_o error_n this_o indeed_o the_o more_o probable_a but_o no_o more_o than_o probable_a i_o be_o quite_o at_o a_o loss_n will_v you_o have_v no_o certainty_n in_o religion_n that_o be_v no_o religion_n at_o all_o in_o the_o world_n for_o with_o what_o steadiness_n can_v i_o act_v in_o order_n towards_o heaven_n if_o my_o thought_n be_v perpetual_o check_v with_o this_o doubt_n for_o example_n that_o perhaps_o there_o be_v no_o heaven_n at_o all_o and_o if_o i_o be_v uncertain_a of_o it_o be_v it_o possible_a to_o shake_v off_o the_o doubt_n till_o i_o comprehend_v your_o design_n therefore_o i_o shall_v only_o desire_v you_o to_o reflect_v that_o if_o the_o possibility_n of_o error_n be_v only_o the_o more_o probable_a then_o it_o be_v but_o probable_a than_o the_o contrary_a though_o less_o be_v yet_o probable_a too_o than_o it_o may_v be_v there_o be_v no_o error_n in_o the_o church_n you_o refuse_v communion_n with_o therefore_o since_o to_o divide_v be_v as_o much_o as_o lie_v in_o the_o divider_n to_o destroy_v the_o church_n and_o to_o destroy_v the_o church_n be_v to_o take_v away_o all_o hope_n of_o salvation_n for_o since_o we_o can_v know_v the_o way_n to_o heaven_n of_o ourselves_o if_o we_o lose_v our_o mistress_n that_o shall_v teach_v it_o we_o there_o can_v remain_v no_o ground_n of_o hope_n and_o this_o from_o all_o mankind_n consider_v if_o you_o please_v what_o it_o be_v to_o continue_v a_o separation_n and_o at_o the_o same_o time_n acknowledge_v that_o perhaps_o there_o be_v no_o error_n that_o be_v no_o ground_n why_o you_o shall_v do_v so_o but_o we_o will_v believe_v no_o error_n till_o we_o see_v they_o no_o indeed_o we_o will_v not_o contradict_v nature_n so_o much_o which_o suppose_v every_o man_n innocent_a till_o he_o be_v prove_v guilty_a in_o return_n to_o your_o civility_n of_o not_o entreat_v i_o out_o of_o my_o religion_n i_o will_v entreat_v you_o not_o to_o be_v out_o of_o it_o neither_o and_o to_o remember_v that_o your_o soul_n be_v equal_o concern_v with_o i_o it_o be_v your_o obligation_n as_o well_o as_o i_o not_o to_o believe_v any_o error_n where_o you_o see_v there_o may_v be_v none_o till_o you_o see_v they_o be_v there_o and_o that_o not_o probable_o but_o with_o undeniable_a evidence_n when_o as_o you_o will_v be_v able_a to_o show_v they_o i_o promise_v you_o i_o will_v be_v ready_a to_o desert_v they_o ¶_o 6._o but_o mr._n white_n will_v fain_o prove_v more_o from_o the_o natural_a inclination_n of_o truth_n and_o happiness_n this_o i_o think_v if_o it_o prove_v any_o thing_n prove_v man_n will_v needs_o be_v a_o grope_v after_o some_o religion_n or_o other_o but_o that_o it_o shall_v be_v after_o the_o true_a or_o make_v he_o preserve_v the_o true_a religion_n i_o shall_v give_v account_n why_o i_o will_v not_o assent_v unto_o without_o corruption_n i_o see_v not_o or_o why_o it_o shall_v not_o prove_v as_o well_o that_o every_o particular_a man_n in_o who_o there_o be_v such_o a_o inclination_n shall_v preserve_v the_o truth_n my_o reason_n why_o that_o inclination_n speak_v of_o do_v no_o way_n prove_v the_o point_n be_v from_o the_o fall_n of_o adam_n if_o there_o be_v no_o such_o thing_n as_o the_o corruption_n of_o man_n nature_n mr_n whites_n reason_n will_v have_v more_o likelihood_n in_o it_o and_o hereby_o appear_v the_o weakness_n of_o your_o cause_n in_o that_o you_o be_v fain_o the_o acute_a of_o you_o to_o have_v recourse_n to_o such_o bulrush_n to_o make_v weapon_n of_o as_o the_o corrupt_a nature_n of_o man_n ready_a to_o uphold_v what_o the_o pure_a oracle_n of_o god_n no_o the_o
receive_v all_o decision_n from_o you_o for_o certainty_n and_o these_o shall_v be_v derive_v to_o follow_a age_n and_o so_o tradition_n of_o late_a date_n go_v for_o apostolic_a god_n forbid_v not_o the_o doctor_n out_o of_o two_o truth_n deliver_v to_o gather_v a_o three_o nor_o those_o that_o be_v no_o doctor_n to_o do_v the_o same_o if_o they_o can_v but_o who_o give_v the_o doctor_n of_o your_o church_n power_n to_o command_v their_o people_n to_o believe_v all_o their_o decision_n certain_o true_a without_o any_o more_o ado_n whether_o they_o be_v true_a or_o no_o it_o matter_n not_o as_o long_o as_o they_o be_v uncertain_a to_o any_o one_o he_o be_v not_o bind_v to_o believe_v they_o certain_o true_a p._n 31._o mr_n white_a demand_n whether_o the_o refuser_n have_v a_o demonstration_n against_o those_o truth_n he_o refuse_v to_o give_v absolute_a assent_n unto_o no_o what_o then_o must_v he_o therefore_o assent_v be_v it_o not_o a_o sufficient_a ground_n not_o to_o assent_v because_o he_o have_v no_o sufficient_a to_o assent_v i_o think_v it_o be_v and_o i_o pray_v do_v you_o show_v the_o contrary_a if_o i_o mistake_v ¶_o 10._o a_o hundred_o mathematician_n only_o tell_v i_o there_o be_v another_o world_n beside_o this_o just_o such_o another_o they_o be_v satisfy_v but_o give_v i_o no_o ground_n to_o know_v the_o same_o must_v i_o needs_o swear_v it_o be_v so_o and_o assent_v to_o that_o i_o know_v not_o as_o a_o certain_a truth_n thus_o you_o suffer_v yourselves_o to_o be_v lead_v by_o the_o nose_n into_o a_o thousand_o absurdity_n though_o the_o man_n by_o his_o probability_n be_v not_o to_o conclude_v rash_o all_o the_o doctor_n determination_n to_o be_v false_a yet_o though_o he_o have_v no_o probability_n against_o their_o decision_n he_o must_v deny_v assent_n only_o upon_o this_o ground_n that_o he_o have_v not_o sufficient_a evidence_n to_o conclude_v their_o determination_n certain_a i_o ask_v of_o you_o when_o a_o council_n of_o you_o meet_v and_o from_o two_o truth_n receive_v arrive_v at_o the_o discovery_n of_o a_o three_o tenet_n can_v the_o council_n err_v in_o this_o deduction_n or_o no_o i_o see_v no_o reason_n to_o say_v they_o can_v there_o be_v no_o promise_n for_o it_o they_o be_v all_o every_o one_o of_o they_o single_o take_v one_o by_o one_o fallible_a man_n as_o well_o as_o other_o nay_o mr_n white_a p._n 227._o say_v they_o may_v when_o he_o deny_v any_o father_n saying_n a_o sufficient_a proof_n of_o a_o point_n no_o say_v he_o not_o the_o chief_a of_o they_o no_o not_o 300_o of_o they_o together_o for_o so_o many_o bishop_n in_o a_o council_n have_v err_v well_o then_o it_o be_v possible_a they_o shall_v err_v though_o i_o will_v suppose_v it_o less_o probable_a than_o that_o one_o man_n shall_v err_v well_o but_o still_o it_o be_v possible_a they_o shall_v err_v and_o with_o what_o candour_n can_v mr_n white_n call_v it_o a_o obstinate_a and_o malepert_a pride_n not_o to_o subscribe_v to_o a_o fallible_a judgement_n as_o infallible_a or_o certain_a i_o call_v it_o blind_a folly_n to_o do_v it_o must_v i_o believe_v that_o true_a which_o i_o have_v no_o sufficient_a ground_n for_o i_o have_v it_o not_o because_o their_o bare_a assertion_n or_o judgement_n who_o may_v be_v mistake_v be_v fallible_a so_o than_o i_o shall_v believe_v a_o lie_n moral_o if_o not_o logical_o to_o i_o though_o not_o in_o itself_o because_o it_o be_v uncertain_a ¶_o 11._o now_o consider_v be_v this_o a_o trifle_n uno_fw-la absurdo_fw-la concesso_fw-la mille_fw-la sequuntur_fw-la though_o the_o first_o uncertainty_n which_o they_o conclude_v a_o certain_a truth_n be_v but_o a_o small_a falsehood_n as_o it_o be_v possible_a afterward_o more_o must_v needs_o follow_v be_v build_v upon_o the_o former_a and_o so_o what_o wonder_v that_o church_n swarm_v with_o error_n where_o such_o a_o principle_n be_v admit_v yet_o this_o way_n must_v be_v take_v the_o certain_a word_n of_o the_o eternal_a god_n shall_v be_v throw_v aside_o and_o fallible_a man_n that_o be_v party_n too_o in_o the_o cause_n shall_v ascend_v the_o throne_n and_o make_v their_o word_n a_o law_n there_o be_v difference_n between_o keep_v quiet_a and_o not_o contradict_v and_o between_o be_v force_v to_o subscribe_v to_o what_o a_o man_n know_v not_o certain_o this_o be_v wickedness_n in_o they_o that_o force_v it_o it_o be_v force_v often_o to_o sin_n what_o be_v not_o of_o faith_n be_v sin_n but_o beside_o though_o mr_n white_n say_v one_o single_a man_n can_v have_v a_o demonstration_n against_o that_o which_o be_v determine_v true_a though_o we_o suppose_v it_o rare_a it_o be_v possible_a for_o one_o man_n to_o find_v out_o what_o all_o the_o world_n beside_o be_v ignorant_a of_o as_o many_o have_v mr_n whites_n own_o instance_n of_o des_n cartes_n be_v sufficient_a who_o find_v out_o more_o than_o many_o learned_a clerk_n with_o twice_o the_o pore_a and_o will_v you_o force_v all_o to_o subscribe_v notwithstanding_o ¶_o 9_o 10_o 11._o the_o discourse_n in_o your_o follow_a paragraph_n be_v strong_a and_o worthy_a yourself_o and_o though_o by_o mistake_n of_o our_o tenet_n not_o conclude_v against_o we_o yet_o full_a of_o excellent_o deduce_v truth_n and_o first_o to_o defend_v mr_n white_a who_o only_o maintain_v the_o addition_n of_o truth_n why_o do_v you_o so_o confident_o call_v that_o a_o evident_a way_n how_o error_n may_v enter_v and_o spread_v itself_o in_o the_o church_n be_v truth_n and_o error_n all_o one_o or_o do_v it_o follow_v that_o because_o man_n be_v content_a to_o admit_v of_o what_o they_o see_v to_o be_v true_a they_o will_v not_o check_v at_o what_o they_o either_o see_v be_v false_a or_o do_v not_o see_v be_v true_a will_v it_o ever_o follow_v out_o of_o mr_n whites_n position_n that_o there_o be_v no_o harm_n in_o add_v of_o truth_n that_o the_o mischief_n of_o add_v error_n can_v be_v avoid_v now_o because_o i_o conceive_v the_o mistake_n your_o whole_a discourse_n run_v upon_o be_v occasion_v by_o a_o wrong_a apprehension_n of_o the_o infallibility_n of_o council_n i_o find_v it_o necessary_a to_o observe_v that_o though_o some_o of_o our_o doctor_n speak_v of_o council_n so_o indistinct_o that_o they_o beget_v such_o a_o opinion_n of_o their_o infallibility_n and_o authority_n as_o i_o perceive_v you_o fancy_n yet_o the_o best_a divine_n with_o who_o mr_n white_a agree_v do_v not_o allow_v any_o power_n in_o the_o church_n of_o make_v new_a article_n of_o faith_n that_o be_v of_o make_v that_o to_o be_v faith_n to_o day_n which_o be_v not_o faith_n yesterday_o and_o the_o day_n before_o and_o always_o which_o it_o can_v not_o be_v without_o be_v teach_v by_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n whence_o it_o be_v evident_o consequent_a that_o if_o they_o can_v make_v any_o new_a thing_n to_o be_v faith_n neither_o can_v they_o oblige_v any_o to_o receive_v and_o believe_v it_o as_o faith_n their_o power_n therefore_o of_o impose_v faith_n upon_o we_o whatever_o fancy_v the_o confusion_n of_o some_o discourse_n have_v raise_v extend_v no_o far_a than_o to_o such_o thing_n as_o both_o be_v and_o be_v know_v to_o be_v faith_n before_o their_o imposition_n and_o sure_o no_o danger_n can_v be_v suspect_v from_o a_o authority_n of_o command_v that_o which_o the_o whole_a world_n see_v whether_o they_o have_v authority_n to_o do_v or_o no._n and_o so_o much_o for_o faith_n as_o for_o truth_n collect_v from_o premise_n first_o it_o appear_v they_o have_v no_o power_n to_o introduce_v they_o into_o the_o catalogue_n of_o faith_n i_o except_o such_o as_o appear_v plain_o at_o first_o sight_n and_o need_v no_o skill_n at_o all_o to_o their_o deduction_n which_o though_o in_o rigour_n they_o be_v not_o proper_o faith_n be_v yet_o in_o a_o moral_a estimation_n account_v the_o same_o and_o so_o by_o the_o world_n which_o in_o such_o plain_a thing_n can_v be_v deceive_v be_v indifferent_o believe_v second_o a_o council_n be_v a_o assembly_n of_o the_o learn_a man_n in_o the_o church_n can_v be_v deny_v to_o see_v into_o consequence_n far_o enough_o to_o know_v whether_o they_o be_v true_o deduce_v or_o no_o so_o that_o if_o they_o engage_v for_o the_o truth_n of_o any_o one_o as_o it_o can_v be_v exalt_v into_o faith_n so_o neither_o can_v it_o be_v imagine_v fall_n without_o some_o prejudice_n cross_v the_o disposition_n of_o nature_n which_o move_v we_o to_o believe_v every_o one_o in_o his_o trade_n neither_o do_v i_o think_v whatever_o you_o say_v of_o your_o hundred_o mathematician_n in_o which_o science_n be_v yourself_o a_o master_n to_o trust_v be_v improper_a but_o that_o if_o half_a a_o hundred_o carpenter_n shall_v agree_v such_o a_o piece_n of_o timber_n will_v fit_v such_o a_o house_n or_o as_o many_o surveyor_n that_o
though_o mr._n white_n can_v not_o you_o see_v be_v good_a if_o the_o father_n hold_v non-admission_n they_o hold_v no_o prayer_n because_o say_v you_o they_o know_v not_o before_o admission_n every_o man_n condition_n this_o you_o see_v i_o have_v deny_v but_o put_v case_n i_o have_v not_o i_o be_o afraid_a you_o will_v come_v short_a of_o your_o account_n s._n austin_n and_o other_o father_n be_v allege_v by_o veron_n a_o excellent_a french_a controvertist_n to_o maintain_v prayer_n to_o saint_n even_o while_o they_o doubt_v whether_o these_o saint_n hear_v the_o prayer_n make_v to_o they_o and_o you_o may_v reflect_v that_o prayer_n to_o saint_n be_v a_o part_n of_o tradition_n rivet_v into_o our_o heart_n by_o a_o universal_a and_o undeniable_a practice_n but_o whether_o soul_n free_v from_o the_o commerce_n of_o body_n receive_v intelligence_n of_o what_o pass_v among_o body_n and_o this_o again_o either_o from_o the_o nature_n of_o their_o state_n or_o divine_a revelation_n whether_o the_o return_n of_o our_o prayer_n to_o saint_n be_v from_o their_o mediation_n or_o only_o from_o the_o goodness_n of_o god_n make_v use_n of_o our_o affection_n to_o creature_n like_o ourselves_o to_o give_v we_o those_o benefit_n which_o otherwise_o we_o have_v never_o demand_v and_o so_o never_o receive_v and_o the_o like_a be_v school_n question_n in_o which_o speculative_a wit_n according_a to_o the_o difference_n of_o their_o learning_n and_o study_n have_v meet_v with_o either_o truth_n or_o error_n but_o act_v all_o the_o while_n as_o scholar_n and_o never_o doubt_v the_o lawfulness_n of_o the_o practice_n which_o occasion_v all_o these_o dispute_n and_o which_o they_o see_v firm_o settle_v upon_o a_o more_o solid_a foundation_n than_o all_o their_o school-learning_n for_o have_v they_o do_v so_o they_o have_v dispute_v it_o as_o well_o as_o the_o rest_n to_o take_v then_o all_o part_n of_o your_o argument_n it_o be_v false_a the_o father_n hold_v non-admission_n be_v false_a that_o non-admission_n import_v ignorance_n of_o our_o condition_n last_o it_o be_v false_a that_o non_fw-la admission_n and_o ignorance_n both_o of_o they_o exclude_v prayer_n to_o saint_n that_o be_v in_o the_o father_n judgement_n for_o the_o question_n be_v not_o what_o be_v true_a or_o false_a but_o what_o they_o hold_v to_o be_v so_o since_o they_o pray_v to_o they_o even_o then_o when_o they_o doubt_v whether_o they_o be_v hear_v or_o no._n now_o i_o beseech_v you_o reflect_v if_o to_o reject_v such_o argument_n be_v a_o sign_n of_o a_o rot_a cause_n what_o it_o be_v to_o be_v persuade_v by_o they_o and_o persuade_v in_o matter_n of_o no_o less_o concern_v then_o eternity_n ¶_o 2._o suppose_v that_o be_v mr._n whites_n meaning_n the_o saint_n know_v what_o we_o pray_v to_o they_o before_o they_o be_v admit_v into_o heaven_n be_v that_o your_o tenet_n to_o what_o purpose_n else_o do_v he_o bring_v jeremies_n pray_v in_o the_o macchabee_n to_o say_v that_o he_o pray_v in_o general_n as_o we_o do_v for_o the_o whole_a church_n though_o we_o know_v not_o its_o particular_a state_n be_v nothing_o to_o the_o purpose_n the_o question_n be_v whether_o we_o may_v pray_v to_o the_o saint_n and_o in_o order_n to_o our_o pray_v to_o they_o whether_o they_o can_v know_v every_o particular_a man_n prayer_n if_o you_o say_v they_o do_v you_o and_o your_o apocryphal_a book_n contradict_v the_o undoubted_a word_n of_o god_n by_o his_o prophet_n isai_n 63.16_o abraham_n know_v we_o not_o and_o isaac_n be_v ignorant_a of_o we_o which_o your_o s._n thomas_n can_v not_o otherwise_o solve_v then_o by_o imagine_v the_o saint_n before_o christ_n be_v not_o yet_o admit_v to_o heaven_n ¶_o 3._o here_o come_v your_o convince_a as_o you_o think_v argument_n against_o the_o knowledge_n of_o saint_n from_o the_o prophet_n isaiah_n araham_n know_v we_o not_o and_o israel_n be_v ignorant_a of_o we_o but_o i_o will_v beg_v of_o you_o not_o to_o put_v so_o much_o confidence_n in_o word_n without_o a_o full_a mastery_n of_o their_o sense_n for_o it_o be_v the_o sense_n of_o scripture_n be_v true_o scripture_n you_o have_v find_v indeed_o the_o word_n ignorant_a and_o know_v we_o not_o but_o what_o be_v mean_v by_o that_o word_n and_o what_o that_o be_v be_v the_o whole_a difficulty_n you_o settle_v not_o you_o know_v that_o word_n luke_n 13.25_o 27._o be_v apply_v to_o the_o master_n of_o the_o house_n mat._n 25.12_o to_o the_o bridegroom_n and_o i_o hope_v you_o will_v not_o from_o it_o argue_v any_o ignorance_n in_o that_o master_n and_o that_o bridegroom_n mark_v 13.32_o the_o knowledge_n of_o the_o day_n of_o judgement_n be_v deny_v to_o that_o son_n who_o be_v so_o man_n that_o he_o be_v also_o god_n can_v sure_o at_o any_o time_n be_v imagine_v to_o want_v his_o omniscience_n since_o therefore_o it_o be_v manifest_a those_o word_n have_v in_o scripture_n many_o sense_n what_o possibility_n be_v there_o by_o the_o bare_a sound_n without_o further_a inquiry_n to_o conclude_v any_o one_o the_o context_n and_o your_o own_o late_a translation_n which_o for_o ignorant_a put_v acknowledge_v not_o persuade_v i_o they_o have_v here_o the_o same_o sense_n as_o when_o god_n be_v say_v not_o to_o know_v impious_a person_n but_o it_o be_v not_o for_o i_o to_o prove_v but_o to_o show_v you_o have_v not_o do_v so_o and_o in_o the_o mean_a time_n to_o wonder_v so_o excellent_a a_o wit_n shall_v make_v such_o a_o bravado_n with_o a_o bulrush_n which_o nevertheless_o i_o impute_v to_o the_o weakness_n of_o your_o cause_n who_o armoury_n afford_v no_o better_a weapon_n ¶_o 3._o that_o which_o mr._n white_a prove_v out_o of_o the_o parable_n of_o dives_n pray_v to_o abraham_n be_v as_o ridiculous_a for_o if_o it_o be_v a_o proof_n it_o be_v either_o nothing_o to_o the_o question_n or_o contrary_a to_o that_o scripture_n name_v but_o the_o principal_a answer_n for_o the_o former_a be_v but_o trifle_n sign_n of_o a_o rot_a cause_n saint_n be_v admit_v to_o 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to_o saint_n to_o make_v a_o end_n of_o this_o authority_n there_o be_v in_o this_o matter_n as_o in_o all_o other_o to_o be_v distinguish_v what_o be_v faith_n from_o what_o be_v learning_n the_o first_o be_v no_o more_o than_o bare_o that_o it_o be_v good_a and_o profitable_a to_o have_v recourse_n to_o the_o assistance_n of_o saint_n to_o the_o last_o belong_v many_o question_n in_o some_o age_n more_o doubtful_a in_o some_o as_o truth_n open_v to_o time_n and_o industry_n more_o settle_v but_o still_o remain_v point_n of_o learning_n not_o faith_n i_o only_o desire_v of_o you_o that_o you_o will_v please_v to_o be_v of_o that_o faith_n in_o this_o point_n which_o s._n austin_n plain_o and_o unquestionable_o deliver_v in_o this_o very_a book_n which_o be_v insist_v on_o by_o yourself_o i_o do_v not_o see_v you_o can_v offer_v less_o and_o promise_v i_o will_v expect_v no_o more_o marry_o because_o in_o a_o point_n of_o school-learning_n he_o maintain_v a_o opinion_n now_o general_o 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the_o place_n be_v a_o explication_n of_o v._o 22._o cap._n 1._o ad_fw-la rom._n say_v themselves_o to_o be_v wise_a they_o become_v fool_n this_o he_o attribute_n to_o the_o vain_a power_n upon_o the_o course_n of_o the_o heaven_n and_o star_n who_o by_o challenge_v a_o opinion_n of_o wisdom_n from_o the_o knowledge_n of_o such_o glorious_a creature_n be_v lose_v in_o the_o folly_n of_o stay_v there_o and_o not_o pass_v on_o to_o the_o creator_n selent_fw-mi tamen_fw-la say_v the_o book_n pudore_fw-la passi_fw-la neglecti_fw-la dei_fw-la miserable_fw-la uti_fw-la excusatione_fw-la dicentes_fw-la per_fw-la istos_fw-la etc._n etc._n where_o first_o the_o word_n tamen_fw-la be_v change_v into_o quidam_fw-la which_o make_v the_o sense_n absolute_a whereas_o the_o first_o evident_o restrain_v it_o to_o what_o go_v before_o viz._n those_o vain_a philosopher_n then_o pudore_fw-la passi_fw-la neglecti_fw-la dei_fw-la which_o be_v also_o relative_a be_v quite_o leave_v out_o and_o to_o complete_a the_o work_n the_o word_n istos_fw-la be_v turn_v into_o justos_fw-la which_o can_v no_o more_o fit_a the_o place_n then_o giant_n or_o castle_n for_o he_o be_v to_o explicate_v the_o apostle_n meaning_n and_o the_o apostle_n plain_o speak_v of_o the_o vanity_n of_o humane_a philosophy_n will_v he_o not_o have_v hit_v his_o sense_n fine_o to_o make_v he_o talk_v of_o saint_n worship_n can_v those_o man_n excuse_n be_v imagine_v so_o miserable_a as_o to_o allege_v in_o justification_n of_o their_o not_o glorify_v god_n that_o saint_n be_v to_o god_n as_o courtier_n to_o prince_n that_o never_o think_v of_o saint_n nor_o if_o they_o have_v be_v one_o jot_n near_o their_o excuse_n this_o be_v a_o kind_n of_o deal_v which_o our_o obedience_n as_o blind_a as_o you_o conceive_v it_o will_v not_o endure_v but_o i_o forbear_v to_o press_v it_o far_o then_o in_o behalf_n of_o your_o own_o happiness_n to_o beseech_v your_o own_o calm_a thought_n may_v work_v free_o and_o impartial_o upon_o it_o sect_n iu_o image_n page_n 176._o mr_n white_n answer_v the_o objection_n of_o the_o second_o commandment_n that_o if_o it_o bind_v now_o than_o the_o whole_a ceremonial_a law_n do_v but_o i_o can_v see_v that_o prohibition_n be_v a_o ceremony_n it_o be_v not_o repeat_v in_o the_o new_a testament_n therefore_o it_o do_v not_o bind_v i_o see_v no_o force_n in_o that_o argument_n neither_o many_o precept_n of_o the_o old_a be_v not_o repeat_v in_o the_o new_a which_o notwithstanding_o bind_v we_o now_o as_o not_o to_o lie_v with_o beast_n not_o to_o remove_v ancient_a landmark_n etc._n etc._n where_o be_v the_o ten_o commandment_n repeat_v in_o so_o many_o word_n but_o be_v there_o nothing_o of_o the_o second_o in_o the_o new_a testament_n i_o shall_v remember_v you_o of_o one_o and_o that_o be_v in_o the_o 17_o of_o the_o act_n where_o s._n paul_n be_v preach_v the_o gospel_n to_o the_o athenian_n confute_v their_o and_o your_o superstition_n of_o worship_v the_o unknown_a which_o be_v the_o true_a god_n by_o bodily_a representation_n in_o the_o 29_o verse_n we_o ought_v not_o to_o think_v that_o the_o godhead_n be_v like_a unto_o gold_n or_o silver_n grave_v by_o art_n and_o man_n device_n god_n be_v not_o like_a unto_o any_o similitude_n the_o art_n of_o man_n can_v devise_v therefore_o ought_v not_o to_o be_v worship_v by_o similitude_n therefore_o no_o picture_n or_o representation_n of_o he_o be_v to_o be_v make_v whether_o it_o be_v of_o man_n or_o bird_n or_o fourfooted_a beast_n or_o of_o creep_a thing_n as_o the_o word_n be_v rom._n 1.25_o whereby_o some_o instead_o of_o glorify_v god_n have_v dishonour_v he_o and_o change_v his_o glory_n as_o if_o there_o be_v not_o a_o great_a evil_o because_o of_o the_o great_a disproportion_n between_o the_o infinite_a majesty_n of_o heaven_n and_o earth_n