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ground_n believe_v church_n doctrine_n 1,773 5 6.7675 4 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A84760 A sober answer to an angry epistle, directed to all the publick teachers in this nation, and prefixed to a book, called (by an antiphrasis) Christs innocency pleaded against the cry of the chief priests. Written in hast by Thomas Speed, once a publick teacher himself, and since revolted from that calling to merchandize, and of late grown a merchant of soules, trading subtilly for the Quakers in Bristoll. Wherein the jesuiticall equivocations and subtle insinuations, whereby he endeavours secretly to infuse the whole venome of Quaking doctrines, into undiscerning readers, are discovered; a catlogue of the true and genuine doctrines of the Quakers is presented, and certaine questions depending between us and them, candidly disputed, / by [brace] Christopher Fowler & Simon Ford, [brace] ministers of the Gospel in Reding, Fowler, Christopher, 1610?-1678.; Ford, Simon, 1619?-1699. 1656 (1656) Wing F1694; Thomason E883_1; ESTC R207293 63,879 81

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revelation_n or_o no_o and_o nayler_n answer_v to_o his_o quaker_n catechism_n and_o that_o very_o strong_o yea_o they_o pretend_v to_o the_o same_o mission_n from_o god_n to_o this_o or_o that_o place_n to_o do_v this_o or_o that_o errand_n which_o the_o prophet_n have_v of_o old_a and_o to_o be_v limit_v in_o their_o stay_n in_o and_o departure_n from_o such_o place_n by_o the_o immediate_a command_n of_o god_n 9_o god_n see_v deusberies_n discovery_n and_o his_o own_o confession_n therein_o that_o at_o derby_n he_o answer_v the_o major_n that_o he_o will_v stay_v there_o till_o the_o lord_n order_v he_o to_o go_v out_o of_o town_n and_o when_o he_o be_v put_v out_o return_v and_o staid_a till_o he_o be_v free_a in_o his_o spirit_n to_o depart_v p._n 8_o 9_o if_o you_o be_v of_o their_o mind_n we_o further_o inquire_v q._n 8._o what_o certain_a token_n you_o have_v to_o know_v the_o command_n of_o god_n from_o the_o command_n of_o satan_n see_v he_o can_v easy_o insinuate_v his_o suggestion_n by_o inward_a voice_n as_o command_n of_o god_n according_a to_o the_o old_a law_n of_o god_n to_o his_o people_n the_o jew_n pretender_n to_o a_o spirit_n of_o prophecy_n though_o they_o give_v evidence_n of_o their_o pretend_a mission_n from_o god_n by_o sign_n and_o wonder_n and_o those_o come_n to_o pass_v too_o yet_o be_v to_o be_v discover_v and_o judge_v by_o the_o write_a word_n deut._n 13._o 1_o 2_o 3._o etc._n etc._n and_o in_o the_o new_a testament_n the_o doctrine_n of_o a_o angel_n from_o heaven_n be_v submit_v under_o a_o curse_n to_o the_o doctrine_n preach_v by_o the_o apostle_n gal._n 1._o 8._o and_o we_o desire_v to_o know_v
have_v suggest_v to_o he_o viz._n that_o that_o scripture_n do_v not_o express_o forbid_v jesus_n of_o nazareth_n to_o throw_v himself_o down_o from_o the_o pinnacle_n and_o in_o the_o three_o tentation_n according_a to_o your_o tenet_n our_o sect._n 67_o saviour_n have_v be_v hard_o put_v to_o it_o to_o prove_v that_o it_o be_v unlawful_a to_o worship_v the_o devil_n himself_o have_v satan_n be_v discipline_v by_o your_o principle_n and_o require_v of_o he_o a_o express_a text_n that_o it_o be_v not_o lawful_a to_o worship_v the_o devil_n whereas_o it_o seem_v for_o want_v of_o your_o artifice_n the_o silly_a tempter_n be_v put_v off_o with_o a_o scripture_n that_o require_v we_o to_o worship_n and_o serve_v god_n only_o and_o conclude_v the_o unlawfulnesse_n of_o devill-worship_n by_o this_o argument_n if_o we_o must_v worship_v and_o serve_v god_n only_o ergo_fw-la not_o the_o devil_n but_o we_o must_v worship_v and_o serve_v god_n only_o therefore_o not_o the_o devil_n and_o the_o sadducee_n afterward_o be_v very_o silly_a animal_n that_o sect._n 68_o they_o will_v let_v our_o saviour_n go_v away_o in_o triumph_n for_o put_v 6._o mat._n 22._o 32._o exod._n 3._o 6._o they_o to_o silence_n by_o so_o weak_a a_o proof_n of_o the_o resurrection_n as_o the_o word_n of_o god_n to_o moses_n in_o the_o bush_n i_o be_o the_o god_n of_o abraham_n the_o god_n of_o isaac_n and_o the_o god_n of_o jacob._n why_o have_v they_o not_o require_v in_o so_o fundamental_a a_o article_n of_o faith_n especial_o a_o positive_a and_o express_a scripture_n affirm_v in_o so_o many_o word_n that_o the_o dead_a shall_v rise_v again_o but_o you_o think_v our_o saviour_n example_n will_v not_o bear_v we_o out_o in_o sect._n 69_o our_o interpretation_n and_o deduction_n because_o he_o be_v infallible_a in_o 6._o p._n 6._o what_o he_o speak_v and_o neither_o do_v nor_o can_v err_v in_o what_o he_o say_v which_o you_o suppose_v can_v be_v say_v of_o we_o or_o our_o meaning_n and_o argument_n to_o which_o we_o answer_v we_o do_v not_o compare_v ourselves_o with_o our_o saviour_n in_o point_n of_o infallibility_n although_o your_o generation_n do_v who_o account_v themselves_o equal_o perfect_a with_o he_o but_o this_o we_o say_v that_o our_o saviour_n in_o these_o place_n and_o other_o where_o he_o argue_v from_o the_o scripture_n do_v not_o urge_v his_o own_o infallibility_n as_o the_o ground_n upon_o which_o he_o require_v beleif_n neither_o do_v satan_n or_o the_o sadducee_n acquiesce_v in_o the_o acknowledgement_n thereof_o but_o in_o the_o conviction_n wrought_v in_o they_o by_o the_o strength_n of_o his_o argument_n and_o we_o must_v tell_v you_o that_o any_o one_o who_o can_v draw_v a_o argument_n right_o from_o scripture_n be_v no_o less_o infallible_a in_o the_o conclusion_n so_o deduce_v thence_o than_o our_o saviour_n be_v in_o he_o the_o question_n therefore_o will_v be_v whether_o any_o person_n in_o interpret_n and_o argue_v from_o scripture_n be_v infallible_a but_o whether_o such_o interpretation_n and_o deduction_n be_v true_o and_o bona_fw-la fide_fw-la according_a to_o the_o mind_n of_o the_o h._n chost_n in_o scripture_n whether_o they_o be_v draw_v by_o a_o person_n that_o be_v fallible_a or_o infallible_a for_o be_v the_o person_n never_o so_o fallible_a that_o give_v the_o interpretation_n or_o draw_v the_o argument_n yet_o if_o the_o interpretation_n be_v sound_a and_o the_o argument_n right_o conclude_v he_o be_v therein_o infallible_a for_o you_o can_v be_v altogether_o ignorant_a of_o that_o common_a maxim_n that_o nothing_o sequi_fw-la exit_fw-la veris_fw-la possunt_fw-la non_fw-la nisi_fw-la vera_fw-la sequi_fw-la but_o truth_n can_v right_o follow_v from_o truth_n and_o a_o false_a conclusion_n can_v never_o be_v regular_o draw_v from_o true_a premise_n so_o that_o all_o that_o flourish_n which_o you_o afterward_o make_v be_v but_o a_o mere_a rhetorical_a vapour_n and_o signify_v just_a nothing_o to_o a_o understanding_n sect._n 70_o reader_n for_o whereas_o you_o bid_v we_o either_o tell_v the_o people_n 6._o p._n 6._o plain_o that_o we_o be_v infallible_a that_o they_o may_v receive_v our_o deduction_n from_o scripture_n for_o true_a doctrine_n nay_o scripture_n itself_o or_o else_o say_v that_o we_o be_v fallible_a that_o so_o they_o may_v take_v liberty_n of_o prove_v our_o action_n and_o doctrine_n we_o answer_v we_o need_v not_o tell_v the_o people_n we_o be_v infallible_a and_o yet_o they_o be_v no_o less_o bind_v to_o receive_v our_o deduction_n if_o right_o draw_v from_o scripture_n then_o if_o we_o be_v indeed_o so_o because_o although_o we_o be_v not_o infallible_a yet_o so_o far_o as_o we_o regular_o argue_v from_o scripture_n we_o be_v not_o deceive_v nor_o can_v deceive_v they_o the_o authority_n of_o our_o deduction_n from_o scripture_n depend_v not_o on_o our_o fallibility_n or_o infallibility_n but_o upon_o the_o evidence_n they_o carry_v in_o they_o of_o their_o necessary_a connexion_n with_o the_o truth_n we_o argue_v from_o and_o this_o because_o we_o own_v ourselves_o fallible_a we_o allow_v our_o hearer_n to_o use_v their_o own_o judgement_n and_o conscience_n to_o prove_v and_o try_v whether_o it_o be_v so_o or_o no._n god_n forbid_v but_o they_o who_o as_o you_o say_v must_v die_v for_o themselves_o and_o account_v to_o the_o lord_n for_o themselves_o shall_v interpret_v for_o themselves_o and_o believe_v for_o themselves_o but_o what_o then_o will_v it_o therefore_o follow_v that_o they_o must_v not_o receive_v our_o interpretation_n or_o believe_v our_o deduction_n or_o that_o we_o may_v not_o help_v they_o to_o interpret_v or_o draw_v deduction_n which_o they_o can_v so_o well_o do_v themselves_o they_o interpret_v for_o themselves_o that_o by_o the_o light_n of_o the_o scripture_n and_o their_o own_o judgement_n lead_v by_o they_o see_v cause_n to_o own_o our_o interpretation_n and_o they_o believe_v for_o themselves_o who_o be_v upon_o a_o serious_a weigh_v of_o our_o argument_n convince_v that_o they_o ought_v to_o admit_v they_o as_o just_a and_o lawful_a deduction_n from_o scripture_n what_o you_o add_v in_o the_o close_a of_o that_o paragraph_n that_o it_o may_v so_o sect._n 71_o fall_n out_o that_o six_o of_o those_o that_o esteem_v themselves_o the_o able_a doctor_n if_o shut_v asunder_o shall_v so_o vary_v in_o the_o interpretation_n of_o one_o scripture_n that_o scarce_o two_o of_o the_o six_o shall_v agree_v in_o the_o same_o interpretation_n whence_o you_o will_v infer_v how_o little_a credit_n be_v to_o be_v give_v to_o our_o deduction_n we_o may_v take_v for_o a_o unsavoury_a scoff_n and_o so_o pass_v it_o by_o but_o we_o shall_v forgive_v you_o this_o and_o many_o more_o such_o if_o it_o will_v do_v you_o any_o good_a and_o vouchsafe_v to_o answer_v even_o where_o you_o deserve_v no_o answer_n but_o silence_n and_o scorn_n be_v it_o therefore_o as_o you_o say_v which_o yet_o in_o scripture_n that_o contain_v matter_n of_o say_v and_o practice_n we_o can_v suppose_v most_o of_o we_o we_o conceive_v in_o such_o be_v at_o least_o till_o the_o new-fangled_a conceit_n of_o these_o time_n infect_v some_o of_o the_o ministry_n as_o well_o as_o other_o be_v of_o the_o same_o mind_n in_o most_o of_o they_o yet_o herein_o we_o be_v no_o more_o to_o be_v blame_v then_o the_o apostle_n and_o other_o primitive_a teacher_n themselves_o who_o differ_v as_o much_o in_o those_o time_n of_o clear_a light_n about_o the_o scripture_n that_o enjoin_v the_o observation_n of_o jewish_a ceremony_n while_o some_o of_o they_o earnest_o contend_v that_o they_o extend_v to_o convert_v gentile_n and_o other_o affirm_v the_o quite_o contrary_a and_o will_v you_o thence_o conclude_v that_o there_o be_v little_a credit_n to_o be_v give_v to_o any_o of_o their_o deduction_n because_o they_o disagree_v among_o themselves_o all_o that_o can_v be_v hence_o solid_o infer_v be_v no_o more_o but_o this_o that_o therefore_o it_o concern_v god_n people_n to_o search_v with_o the_o noble_a beroean_n whether_o the_o thing_n the_o one_o or_o the_o other_o say_v be_v most_o consonant_a to_o the_o scripture_n but_o you_o that_o will_v not_o believe_v our_o interpretation_n or_o deduction_n sect._n 72_o because_o we_o be_v not_o in_o all_o thing_n agree_v will_v you_o believe_v they_o in_o those_o thing_n wherein_o we_o be_v all_o or_o the_o great_a part_n of_o we_o of_o a_o mind_n sure_o if_o so_o most_o of_o the_o quake_a doctrine_n will_v fall_v to_o the_o ground_n for_o very_o few_o if_o any_o of_o we_o shall_v dare_v to_o interpret_v scripture_n to_o the_o countenance_n of_o those_o horrid_a doctrine_n before_o mention_v in_o a_o word_n this_o whole_a discourse_n about_o infallibility_n and_o difference_n sect._n 73_o among_o ourselves_o in_o interpretation_n of_o scripture_n as_o one_o have_v very_o well_o observe_v before_o we_o smell_v rank_n of_o your_o popish_a catechism_n
tell_v we_o whether_o we_o must_v live_v by_o one_o rule_n here_o and_o be_v judge_v hereafter_o by_o another_o in_o your_o answer_n to_o these_o query_n we_o must_v desire_v you_o not_o to_o play_v child_n play_n with_o we_o and_o endeavour_v to_o put_v we_o off_o with_o trifle_a fallacy_n which_o every_o sophister_n can_v discern_v as_o you_o do_v frequent_o in_o your_o particular_a contest_v with_o mr._n thomas_n which_o we_o doubt_v not_o you_o will_v here_o of_o with_o both_o ear_n when_o he_o be_v at_o leisure_n to_o reply_v upon_o you_o but_o deal_v candid_o and_o positive_o as_o become_v a_o scholar_n and_o a_o christian_a with_o those_o who_o assure_v you_o they_o will_v with_o all_o possible_a fairness_n examine_v whatsoever_o of_o that_o nature_n you_o shall_v think_v necessary_a to_o rejoin_v hereunto_o and_o here_o we_o shall_v put_v a_o period_n to_o our_o first_o debate_n with_o you_o sect._n 63_o concern_v the_o rule_n ground_n or_o foundation_n of_o faith_n which_o we_o say_v be_v the_o scripture_n you_o that_o we_o can_v find_v yet_o say_v not_o what_o it_o be_v but_o say_v roundly_o it_o be_v not_o they_o our_o next_o friendly_a collation_n be_v about_o the_o way_n of_o draw_v those_o doctrine_n from_o the_o scripture_n which_o be_v to_o be_v believe_v and_o practise_v concern_v which_o your_o declare_a judgement_n be_v as_o etc._n p._n 5_o 6._o 19_o etc._n etc._n well_o as_o we_o can_v gather_v it_o from_o your_o own_o expression_n that_o it_o be_v unlawful_a to_o interpret_v or_o give_v any_o meaning_n of_o scripture_n or_o to_o draw_v any_o deduction_n and_o conclusion_n from_o it_o but_o that_o we_o must_v rest_v satisfy_v with_o the_o bare_a word_n of_o scripture_n insomuch_o that_o nothing_o according_a to_o you_o be_v prove_v from_o the_o scripture_n but_o what_o be_v there_o in_o so_o many_o word_n concern_v which_o tenet_n we_o have_v a_o little_a knock_v shin_n with_o you_o before_o at_o arm_n end_v but_o we_o shall_v now_o wrestle_v a_o fair_a fall_n and_o come_v as_o close_o as_o we_o can_v to_o give_v you_o a_o downright_a cornish_a hug_v first_o therefore_o we_o must_v inform_v you_o that_o your_o generation_n sect._n 64_o be_v not_o the_o first_o that_o have_v start_v the_o question_n or_o so_o hold_v it_o we_o know_v not_o whether_o you_o understand_v french_a or_o no_o but_o if_o you_o do_v we_o refer_v you_o to_o a_o discourse_n of_o mr._n daillé_n as_o learned_a a_o french_a man_n as_o any_o this_o latter_a age_n have_v breed_v who_o in_o a_o book_n daille_n lafoy_n fondee_n sur_fw-fr les_fw-fr s._n escriture_n par_fw-fr jean_n daille_n print_v about_o sixteen_o year_n since_o have_v a_o large_a dispute_n with_o certain_a popish_a methodist_n who_o undertake_v to_o teach_v their_o delude_a proselyte_n the_o same_o way_n of_o confute_v the_o french_a protestant_n which_o you_o now_o principle_n your_o disciple_n withal_o to_o gravel_n those_o of_o this_o nation_n they_o deem_v say_v he_o that_o there_o need_v no_o more_o ado_n to_o baffle_v we_o but_o to_o demand_v of_o we_o a_o express_v formal_a text_n for_o every_o article_n of_o our_o confession_n this_o facile_a way_n say_v he_o further_o have_v produce_v a_o rabble_n of_o disputant_n among_o they_o and_o whereas_o at_o first_o they_o flee_v and_o decline_v all_o conference_n of_o religion_n and_o permit_v none_o but_o their_o clergy_n to_o speak_v of_o it_o now_o all_o sort_n of_o people_n will_v adventure_v to_o engage_v with_o we_o even_o seamster_n and_o carter_n boy_n be_v create_v doctor_n in_o a_o instant_n by_o this_o handsome_a method_n the_o same_o author_n derive_v the_o rise_n of_o it_o high_o than_o that_o age_n too_o but_o from_o such_o a_o family_n as_o neither_o they_o nor_o you_o have_v much_o cause_n to_o boast_v of_o eutiche_n the_o heretic_n that_o confound_v the_o nature_n of_o god_n and_o man_n in_o the_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n g._n christ_n act_n council_n chalcedon_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d athanas_n ep._n the_o synod_n arim._n &_o seleuc._n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d et_fw-la dialog_n cont_n arianum_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d aug._n ep._n 174._o &_o 178._o id._n contra_fw-la maxim_n t._n 6._o fol._n 144._o g._n require_v a_o express_a scripture_n to_o affirm_v that_o in_o christ_n there_o be_v two_o nature_n the_o arian_n in_o athanasius_n his_o time_n and_o after_o deny_v the_o consubstantiality_n of_o the_o son_n of_o god_n viz._n that_o he_o be_v of_o the_o same_o substance_n with_o the_o father_n assert_v by_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a to_o express_v the_o eternal_a deity_n of_o the_o son_n as_o you_o do_v the_o word_n sacrament_n because_o it_o be_v not_o in_o so_o many_o letter_n find_v in_o the_o scripture_n and_o concern_v the_o very_a godhead_n of_o jesus_n christ_n in_o a_o dialogue_n between_o athanasius_n and_o a_o arian_n let_v alone_a syllogism_n say_v the_o arian_n and_o show_v it_o we_o write_v that_o the_o son_n be_v the_o true_a god_n so_o pascentius_n a_o arian_n require_v of_o augustine_n to_o show_v he_o the_o word_n consubstantial_a in_o scripture_n without_o argument_n and_o in_o a_o like_a dispute_n between_o he_o and_o maximinus_n concern_v the_o godhead_n of_o the_o h._n ghost_n when_o the_o father_n prove_v it_o from_o the_o scripture_n that_o tell_v we_o he_o have_v a_o temple_n the_o proper_a adjunct_n of_o divinity_n the_o heretic_n reply_v truth_n be_v not_o conclude_v by_o argument_n but_o prove_v by_o certain_a testimony_n these_o thing_n we_o have_v the_o more_o large_o transcribe_v out_o of_o that_o learned_a author_n to_o let_v you_o know_v out_o of_o what_o forge_n that_o weapon_n be_v hammer_v wherewith_o you_o encounter_v we_o follow_v you_o now_o if_o you_o please_v the_o ancient_a heretic_n and_o modern_a papist_n for_o our_o part_n we_o be_v glad_a that_o we_o insist_v upon_o the_o same_o way_n and_o method_n of_o dispute_v which_o the_o sound_a part_n of_o the_o church_n have_v ever_o use_v to_o encounter_v they_o withal_o sure_o our_o saviour_n christ_n better_a know_v the_o way_n of_o prove_v sect._n 65_o conclusion_n from_o scripture_n than_o you_o or_o we_o and_o yet_o he_o never_o think_v it_o necessary_a to_o tie_v himself_o up_o to_o express_v text_n but_o allow_v himself_o the_o liberty_n of_o the_o interpretation_n and_o deduction_n when_o satan_n tempt_v he_o to_o turn_v stone_n into_o bread_n he_o think_v it_o sufficient_a to_o repel_v the_o tentation_n by_o that_o text_n of_o moses_n man_n live_v not_o by_o bread_n alone_o but_o by_o every_o word_n that_o 3._o mat._n 4._o 4._o deut._n 8._o 3._o proceed_v out_o of_o the_o mouth_n of_o god_n the_o force_n of_o which_o answer_n lie_v in_o this_o syllogism_n if_o god_n be_v able_a to_o supply_v the_o want_n of_o ordinary_a food_n that_o a_o man_n life_n shall_v be_v sustain_v without_o it_o while_o god_n have_v work_v for_o he_o to_o do_v then_o shall_v i_o do_v ill_a if_o in_o distrust_n of_o he_o i_o shall_v command_v these_o stone_n to_o be_v make_v bread_n but_o god_n be_v thus_o able_a for_o man_n live_v not_o etc._n etc._n therefore_o i_o shall_v do_v ill_a if_o i_o shall_v command_v these_o stone_n to_o be_v make_v bread_n have_v one_o of_o your_o brethren_n be_v at_o the_o devil_n elbow_n he_o will_v have_v teach_v he_o more_o wit_n then_o to_o take_v such_o a_o answer_n and_o have_v turn_v he_o to_o put_v our_o saviour_n upon_o the_o produce_v of_o a_o express_a text_n of_o scripture_n that_o forbid_v jesus_n the_o son_n of_o mary_n to_o command_v stone_n to_o be_v make_v bread_n so_o in_o the_o second_o tentation_n both_o our_o saviour_n and_o the_o devil_n sect._n 66_o also_o if_o no_o meaning_n or_o deduction_n be_v allowable_a in_o urge_v of_o scripture_n may_v have_v go_v to_o school_n to_o you_o the_o devil_n urge_v scripture_n to_o our_o saviour_n to_o conclude_v the_o lawfulness_n of_o his_o cast_a himself_o down_o from_o the_o pinnacle_n for_o say_v he_o it_o be_v write_v he_o shall_v give_v his_o angel_n charge_v concern_v thou_o etc._n etc._n we_o do_v not_o find_v our_o saviour_n so_o well_o verse_v in_o your_o way_n of_o dispute_v as_o to_o deny_v his_o proof_n because_o it_o be_v not_o express_o god_n shall_v give_v his_o angel_n charge_v over_o jesus_n the_o son_n of_o mary_n and_o in_o their_o hand_n shall_v they_o bear_v he_o up_o etc._n etc._n but_o answer_n by_o another_o scripture_n to_o show_v that_o that_o text_n be_v not_o to_o be_v understand_v of_o protection_n in_o way_n of_o tempt_a god_n by_o run_v ourselves_o upon_o unnecessary_a danger_n nay_o when_o our_o saviour_n have_v answer_v he_o with_o that_o place_n deut._n 6._o 16._o thou_o shall_v not_o tempt_v the_o lord_n thy_o god_n satan_n also_o be_v to_o seek_v of_o that_o plea_n which_o you_o can_v
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