necessity_n of_o separation_n ans._n 1._o the_o dr._n than_o make_v no_o difference_n between_o a_o scruple_n that_o have_v ground_n for_o it_o and_o one_o that_o have_v none_o if_o he_o can_v make_v our_o scruple_n appear_v to_o be_v groundless_a as_o he_o confess_v they_o to_o be_v he_o have_v advantage_n against_o we_o ans._n 2._o be_v there_o no_o difference_n between_o have_v probable_a ground_n for_o a_o scruple_n and_o have_v no_o such_o ground_n be_v there_o any_o comparison_n between_o scruple_v at_o use_v religious_a ceremony_n that_o have_v no_o warrant_n in_o the_o word_n but_o be_v in_o general_n at_o least_o condemn_v in_o it_o and_o scruple_v at_o some_o pretend_a corruption_n that_o no_o scripture_n condemn_v ans._n 3._o if_o the_o dr_n reason_v be_v good_a either_o we_o must_v bear_v with_o none_o that_o scruple_n unless_o we_o scruple_n the_o same_o thing_n or_o we_o must_v bear_v with_o all_o that_o scruple_n the_o first_o of_o these_o exclude_v all_o christian_a forbearance_n the_o last_o he_o will_v not_o allege_v ans._n 4._o he_o mention_v imposition_n as_o to_o order_n and_o discipline_n only_o that_o we_o may_v seem_v imposer_n as_o well_o as_o his_o party_n be_v that_o be_v unreasonable_a not_o only_o because_o we_o can_v show_v christ_n law_n for_o our_o order_n and_o discipline_n which_o he_o will_v not_o pretend_v to_o show_v for_o the_o ceremony_n but_o also_o because_o we_o can_v bear_v with_o sober_a and_o faithful_a brethren_n that_o can_v approve_v of_o all_o that_o we_o do_v which_o his_o party_n will_v not_o sect._n 20._o he_o mistake_v the_o case_n when_o he_o insinuate_v that_o we_o have_v no_o more_o but_o scruple_n of_o conscience_n to_o plead_v the_o dr._n shall_v not_o have_v allege_v this_o till_o he_o or_o some_o of_o his_o party_n have_v answer_v all_o our_o reason_n of_o scruple_v in_o many_o book_n neither_o touch_v by_o he_o or_o any_o other_o but_o now_o he_o will_v knock_v down_o our_o cause_n with_o one_o blow_n he_o say_v he_o put_v the_o case_n as_o clear_v as_o possible_a to_o prevent_v all_o subterfuge_n and_o slight_a evasion_n he_o suppose_v five_o scruple_a party_n one_o at_o the_o liturgy_n a_o second_o at_o the_o cross_n and_o kneel_a a_o three_o at_o wrong_n gather_v church_n a_o four_o at_o infant_n baptism_n a_o five_o at_o preach_v by_o set_a form_n and_o be_v stint_v by_o a_o hourglass_n and_o he_o say_v the_o nature_n of_o the_o case_n do_v not_o vary_v according_a to_o these_o if_o this_o be_v the_o dr_n herculean_a argument_n we_o shall_v not_o need_v to_o fear_v his_o strength_n so_o much_o as_o before_o sure_o the_o learned_a dr_n part_n can_v let_v he_o see_v more_o reason_n to_o bear_v with_o sober_a and_o intelligent_a man_n who_o dare_v not_o join_v with_o a_o church_n in_o worship_v god_n by_o religious_a ceremony_n not_o institute_v by_o christ_n than_o with_o fantastic_a quaker_n who_o cast_v off_o god_n ordinance_n because_o of_o a_o hourglass_n but_o that_o his_o prejudice_n do_v in_o this_o darken_v his_o understanding_n but_o the_o tendency_n of_o his_o discourse_n seem_v to_o be_v either_o church-authority_n must_v lead_v we_o blindfold_n so_o as_o we_o must_v scruple_n nothing_o impose_v or_o neither_o scripture_n nor_o reason_n shall_v limit_v our_o fancy_n but_o we_o may_v scruple_n what_o we_o will._n he_o say_v well_o p._n 76._o and_o the_o nonconformist_n before_o he_o have_v say_v it_o if_o they_o allege_v ground_n to_o justify_v themselves_o they_o must_v do_v it_o ex_fw-la natura_fw-la rei_fw-la and_o not_o from_o the_o mere_a error_n or_o mistake_n of_o conscience_n we_o will_v most_o willing_o join_v issue_n with_o he_o on_o this_o condition_n provide_v the_o natura_fw-la rei_fw-la may_v be_v judge_v by_o scripture_n as_o all_o the_o worship_n of_o god_n shall_v be_v if_o he_o can_v prove_v the_o ceremony_n that_o we_o scruple_n to_o be_v such_o as_o we_o may_v use_v without_o sin_n or_o if_o we_o prove_v not_o the_o contrary_a let_v he_o call_v we_o as_o vile_a separatist_n as_o he_o please_v if_o the_o dr._n have_v please_v at_o first_o to_o hang_v the_o matter_n on_o this_o pin_n and_o not_o to_o have_v fill_v his_o book_n with_o so_o many_o citation_n to_o strengthen_v his_o cause_n with_o humane_a authority_n he_o may_v have_v save_v both_o himself_o and_o i_o all_o this_o labour_n that_o hitherto_o we_o have_v be_v at_o it_o be_v no_o great_a commendation_n either_o of_o the_o wisdom_n or_o of_o the_o sobriety_n of_o his_o church_n that_o he_o say_v shâ—_n have_v as_o much_o occasion_n cause_n he_o shall_v have_v say_v to_o judge_v their_o the_o presbyterian_o scruple_n unreasonable_a as_o they_o do_v those_o of_o the_o quaker_n what_o follow_v about_o occasional_a communion_n be_v answer_v above_o that_o which_o he_o cit_v out_o of_o mr._n a._n of_o the_o assemby_n be_v transport_v in_o the_o heat_n of_o dispute_n be_v not_o so_o derogatory_n from_o that_o venerable_a meeting_n as_o he_o will_v make_v it_o it_o be_v rare_a to_o find_v it_o otherwise_o with_o sinful_a man_n how_o many_o thing_n do_v thus_o slip_v from_o the_o pen_n of_o several_a of_o the_o father_n that_o the_o dr._n will_v not_o approve_v but_o we_o do_v not_o hereby_o give_v up_o the_o cause_n to_o the_o dissent_v brethren_n nor_o forsake_v the_o assembly_n principle_n it_o be_v one_o thing_n not_o to_o approve_v all_o that_o man_n say_v and_o another_o thing_n to_o condemn_v the_o cause_n that_o they_o plead_v for_o sect._n 21._o our_o author_n do_v next_o undertake_v sect._n 17._o to_o show_v how_o we_o have_v desert_v the_o principle_n of_o the_o old_a nonconformist_n as_o to_o private_a person_n reform_v church-discipline_n set_v up_o new_a church_n and_o the_o preach_n of_o minister_n when_o silence_v by_o the_o law_n for_o the_o set_n up_o of_o church_n and_o discipline_n he_o cit_v several_a nonconformist_n against_o it_o without_o the_o magistrate_n p._n 78_o 79_o 80_o 81_o 82._o to_o all_o which_o i_o answer_v that_o two_o thing_n be_v express_o in_o these_o citation_n that_o make_v what_o they_o condemn_v not_o to_o reach_v our_o case_n for_o 1._o they_o condemn_v private_a man_n endeavour_v a_o public_a reformation_n that_o belong_v to_o the_o magistrate_n so_o it_o be_v thrice_o express_v p._n 81._o out_o of_o confut._n of_o the_o brownist_n now_o we_o meddle_v not_o with_o a_o public_a reformation_n otherwise_o than_o by_o our_o prayer_n and_o advice_n as_o we_o have_v occasion_n which_o be_v there_o also_o express_o allow_v by_o they_o but_o content_v ourselves_o to_o serve_v god_n private_o when_o we_o can_v do_v it_o public_o without_o sin._n to_o this_o same_o purpose_n be_v that_o which_o be_v cite_v out_o of_o giffard_n p._n 79._o that_o though_o every_o one_o ought_v to_o keep_v a_o good_a conscience_n yet_o no_o private_a person_n be_v to_o take_v on_o they_o public_a authority_n to_o reform_v if_o we_o do_v so_o blame_v we_o for_o it_o 2._o these_o nonconformist_n all_o along_o speak_v of_o private_a person_n reform_v the_o discipline_n of_o the_o church_n now_o what_o be_v do_v among_o we_o of_o that_o kind_n be_v do_v by_o minister_n who_o though_o in_o the_o state_n they_o be_v private_a person_n and_o therefore_o be_v not_o to_o meddle_v with_o matter_n of_o that_o concern_n yet_o in_o the_o church_n they_o be_v public_a person_n and_o have_v authority_n from_o god_n to_o dispense_v his_o ordinance_n but_o i_o do_v not_o by_o what_o i_o have_v say_v intend_v to_o homologate_v all_o that_o the_o dr._n cit_v out_o of_o these_o nonconformist_n several_a thing_n they_o assert_v that_o can_v well_o be_v defend_v but_o i_o shall_v not_o digress_v so_o far_o as_o to_o particularize_v they_o sect._n 22._o i_o shall_v only_o say_v that_o have_v this_o principle_n of_o not_o reform_v the_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n by_o people_n among_o themselves_o till_o the_o magistrate_n give_v countenance_n take_v always_o place_n in_o the_o world_n not_o only_a christianity_n have_v not_o come_v in_o the_o place_n of_o judâ—ism_n but_o arrianism_n have_v extinguish_v the_o orthodox_n profession_n have_v we_o not_o example_n of_o people_n who_o be_v under_o arian_n bishop_n set_v up_o new_a bishop_n over_o themselves_o in_o epiphan_n haeres_fw-la 73_o do_v not_o hilary_n exhort_v the_o people_n to_o separate_v from_o auxentius_n their_o arian_n bishop_n adversus_fw-la arianos_fw-la when_o yet_o there_o be_v no_o orthodox_n magistrate_n to_o countenance_v these_o thing_n yea_o have_v this_o principle_n obtain_v there_o have_v be_v no_o reformation_n from_o popery_n in_o most_o place_n where_o now_o through_o the_o lord_n mercy_n it_o be_v say_v not_o that_o our_o reform_v of_o worship_n and_o discipline_n be_v not_o in_o thing_n of_o that_o moment_n for_o though_o that_o be_v true_a yet_o it_o be_v not_o of_o
new_a ground_n of_o separation_n because_o now_o they_o be_v scruple_v at_o more_o than_o at_o first_o and_o though_o the_o thing_n be_v before_o yet_o they_o do_v not_o such_o mischief_n then_o as_o now_o and_o therefore_o they_o who_o continue_v they_o when_o thus_o hurtful_a though_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o the_o hurt_n of_o they_o arise_v from_o the_o mistake_n of_o the_o scrupler_n do_v create_v a_o necessity_n of_o separation_n while_o they_o may_v remove_v these_o scandal_n and_o will_v not_o but_o they_o that_o scruple_n can_v remove_v their_o scruple_n the_o other_o expression_n be_v that_o continue_v of_o the_o ceremony_n be_v venture_v our_o peace_n in_o a_o old_a worm-eaten_a bottom_n which_o the_o dr._n against_o all_o reason_n understand_v of_o the_o reformation_n but_o be_v indeed_o to_o be_v understand_v of_o the_o ceremony_n the_o reformation_n be_v found_v on_o scripture_n a_o sure_a and_o sound_a foundation_n the_o ceremony_n on_o man_n will_n and_o authority_n and_o therefore_o just_o term_v a_o worm-eaten_a bottom_n that_o he_o say_v there_o be_v no_o nonconformist_n in_o k._n edw._n 6._o day_n be_v before_o disprove_v and_o if_o there_o have_v not_o while_o we_o can_v give_v scripture-ground_n for_o our_o nonconformity_n we_o need_v not_o be_v ashamed_a though_o martyr_n and_o other_o reformer_n act_v otherwise_o sect._n 10._o that_o dr._n ames_n can_v bring_v no_o other_o instance_n but_o rogers_n and_o hooper_n be_v nothing_o against_o we_o who_o have_v before_o show_v that_o a_o party_n they_o have_v of_o who_o they_o be_v the_o ringleader_n he_o seem_v p._n 5._o to_o lay_v some_o weight_n on_o p._n martyr_n and_o bucer_n persuade_v hooper_n to_o submit_v to_o the_o episcopal_a habit_n i_o deny_v not_o but_o they_o diâ—_n so_o and_o he_o at_o last_o yield_v to_o their_o advice_n but_o p._n martyr_n in_o the_o epistle_n cite_v by_o the_o dr._n to_o wit_n ep._n theolog._n hoopero_n p._n mihi_fw-la 1085._o do_v there_o full_o declare_v his_o dislike_n of_o these_o thing_n and_o of_o all_o humane_a invention_n in_o god_n worship_n only_o that_o for_o the_o necessity_n that_o then_o be_v advise_v the_o use_n of_o they_o as_o the_o apostle_n on_o the_o like_a ground_n as_o he_o there_o mention_v forbid_v eat_v of_o thing_n strangle_v etc._n etc._n he_o high_o commend_v hooper_n zeal_n in_o endeavour_v ut_fw-la ad_fw-la castam_fw-la simplicemque_fw-la puritatem_fw-la christiana_fw-la religio_fw-la denuo_fw-la aspirâ—t_fw-la and_o desire_v ut_fw-la omne_fw-la paulatim_fw-la resecentur_fw-la quae_fw-la parum_fw-la aut_fw-la nihil_fw-la habent_fw-la quae_fw-la ad_fw-la solidam_fw-la aedificationem_fw-la referri_fw-la pâ—ssint_fw-la &_o redundare_fw-la potius_fw-la &_o superflua_fw-la quodammodo_fw-la piis_fw-la animus_fw-la judicantur_fw-la and_o he_o commend_v the_o practice_n at_o strasburg_n where_o he_o live_v vbi_fw-la vestrum_fw-la discrimina_fw-la quoad_fw-la sacra_fw-la sunt_fw-la sublata_fw-la as_o be_v morem_fw-la candidiorem_fw-la &_o apprime_fw-la resipientem_fw-la apostolicam_fw-la ecclesiam_fw-la and_o after_o he_o say_v accendit_fw-la hoc_fw-la meum_fw-la desiderium_fw-la partim_fw-la quod_fw-la in_o ritibus_fw-la quamproxime_n vellem_fw-la ad_fw-la sacras_fw-la literas_fw-la accedere_fw-la atque_fw-la meliorum_fw-la temporum_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la imitatione_n persequi_fw-la partim_fw-la quod_fw-la animadverto_fw-la papae_fw-la sectatores_fw-la adhuc_fw-la his_fw-la reliquiis_fw-la conari_fw-la speciem_fw-la saltem_fw-la missae_fw-la instaurare_fw-la and_o afterward_o si_fw-mi pateremur_fw-la prius_fw-la evangelium_fw-la &_o propagari_fw-la &_o altas_fw-la radices_fw-la agere_fw-la melius_fw-la fortasse_fw-la &_o facilius_fw-la persuaderentur_fw-la homines_fw-la ut_fw-la hos_fw-la externos_fw-la apparatus_n removerent_fw-la and_o he_o add_v a_o similitude_n of_o one_o that_o be_v sick_a and_o recover_v by_o degree_n who_o can_v forbear_v the_o use_n of_o some_o unfit_a thing_n that_o in_o health_n he_o will_v willing_o put_v away_o do_v not_o all_o this_o full_o express_v what_o i_o have_v already_o say_v that_o all_o the_o ceremony_n ought_v to_o have_v be_v cast_v out_o at_o first_o that_o the_o reformer_n partly_o by_o the_o church_n and_o their_o want_n of_o due_a light_n like_o one_o in_o a_o state_n of_o convalescency_n and_o partly_o out_o of_o a_o design_n to_o gain_v and_o not_o offend_v the_o papist_n do_v for_o a_o time_n retain_v these_o ceremony_n with_o a_o design_n to_o have_v they_o afterward_o remove_v and_o be_v it_o not_o plain_a that_o p._n martyr_n under_o our_o circumstance_n will_v be_v a_o non_fw-fr conformist_n as_o well_o as_o we_o the_o opinion_n of_o this_o good_a man_n be_v yet_o more_o clear_a and_o against_o the_o dr._n out_o of_o another_o epistle_n amico_fw-la cuidam_fw-la in_o anglia_fw-it who_o none_o that_o read_v the_o letter_n and_o know_v the_o history_n can_v doubt_v to_o be_v hooper_n p._n mihi_fw-la 1126_o 1127._o where_o he_o say_v de_fw-fr pilâ—â—_n vero_fw-la rotundo_fw-la vel_fw-la habitu_fw-la extra_fw-la sacra_fw-la gestando_fw-la non_fw-la arbitramur_fw-la esse_fw-la plus_fw-la quam_fw-la oporâ—eat_fw-la rixandum_fw-la at_o de_fw-fr vestibus_fw-la ut_fw-la sacris_fw-la in_o ministerio_fw-la ipso_fw-la adhibendis_fw-la cum_fw-la spâ—ciem_fw-la missae_fw-la referant_fw-la &_o sunt_fw-la merae_fw-la papatus_fw-la reliquiae_fw-la dominus_fw-la bullingerus_n censâ—t_fw-la non_fw-la esse_fw-la illis_fw-la utendum_fw-la ego_fw-la vero_fw-la et_fw-la si_fw-la usui_fw-la ejusmodi_fw-la ornamentorum_fw-la semper_fw-la sum_fw-la adversatus_fw-la idcirco_fw-la tardior_fw-la eram_fw-la ad_fw-la suadendum_fw-la ut_fw-la potius_fw-la episcopatum_fw-la abdicares_fw-la quam_fw-la uâ—_n illarum_fw-la vestium_fw-la usum_fw-la reciperes_fw-la attamen_fw-la quia_fw-la scandala_fw-la ejus_fw-la generis_fw-la vidi_fw-la prorsus_fw-la evitanda_fw-la propterea_fw-la in_o ejus_fw-la sententiam_fw-la fucile_fw-la cessi_fw-la he_o after_o advise_v that_o he_o may_v not_o act_v against_o his_o conscience_n and_o show_v that_o he_o himself_o when_o at_o oxford_n though_o he_o be_v canonicus_n yet_o will_v never_o wear_v the_o surplice_n in_o the_o quire._n i_o say_v nothing_o of_o bucer_n not_o have_v his_o book_n script_n anglican_n but_o it_o be_v reasonable_a to_o think_v that_o he_o be_v of_o the_o samemind_n sect._n 11._o that_o mr._n bradford_n be_v a_o nonconformist_a he_o can_v deny_v but_o say_v a_o good_a man_n have_v a_o unreasonable_a scruple_n may_v not_o we_o answer_v the_o same_o way_n to_o all_o his_o allegation_n of_o the_o martyr_n and_o first_o reformer_n compliance_n with_o the_o ceremony_n to_o wit_n that_o good_a man_n do_v not_o scruple_n where_o it_o be_v reasonable_a that_o they_o shall_v the_o word_n that_o he_o cite_v out_o of_o the_o act._n and_o monument_n vol._n 3._o p._n 319._o where_o mr._n bradford_n call_v martyrdom_n the_o lord_n cognizance_n and_o not_o tippet_n etc._n etc._n do_v rather_o make_v against_o than_o for_o his_o design_n for_o it_o be_v plain_a that_o he_o put_v tippet_n etc._n etc._n in_o the_o same_o rank_n with_o shave_n crown_n and_o call_v they_o antichristian_a baggage_n and_o no_o reason_n can_v be_v give_v why_o these_o shall_v be_v so_o call_v except_o that_o they_o be_v bring_v into_o religion_n by_o man_n not_o by_o god_n which_o agree_v to_o all_o the_o ceremony_n who_o they_o be_v that_o keep_v secret_a meeting_n under_o b._n ridley_n it_o be_v needless_a to_o inquire_v the_o dr._n guess_v that_o they_o be_v furious_a anabaptist_n or_o secret_a papist_n i_o know_v no_o reason_n for_o this_o guess_n but_o because_o he_o be_v resolve_v that_o there_o shall_v be_v no_o nonconformists_a then_o such_o as_o be_v now_o but_o that_o there_o then_o be_v some_o excellent_a man_n who_o dislike_v the_o ceremony_n i_o have_v show_v that_o some_o of_o they_o do_v use_v they_o notwithstanding_o i_o acknowledge_v that_o any_o do_v separate_v i_o do_v not_o undertake_v to_o prove_v nor_o can_v he_o prove_v the_o contrary_a so_o much_o as_o probable_o i_o be_o sure_a there_o be_v principle_n then_o maintain_v by_o a_o party_n of_o man_n which_o will_v have_v make_v they_o do_v as_o we_o do_v if_o their_o practice_n have_v be_v sufficient_o adapt_v to_o the_o sentiment_n that_o they_o have_v about_o the_o ceremony_n which_o make_v it_o not_o unprobable_a that_o some_o of_o they_o do_v withdraw_v though_o it_o may_v be_v the_o man_n of_o more_o note_n among_o they_o who_o consider_v the_o necessity_n of_o their_o case_n as_o warrant_v that_o practice_n may_v do_v otherwise_o but_o it_o be_v no_o way_n likely_a that_o the_o church_n do_v so_o furious_o impose_v these_o thing_n on_o the_o conscience_n of_o scrupler_n as_o we_o be_v now_o impose_v on_o sect._n 12._o the_o dr_n long_a harangue_n p._n 6_o 7._o to_o condemn_v our_o practice_n by_o the_o contrary_a practice_n of_o the_o first_o reformer_n do_v either_o prove_v nothing_o or_o it_o conclude_v that_o it_o be_v possible_a that_o such_o holy_a man_n can_v mistake_v which_o before_o he_o himself_o have_v impute_v to_o holy_a mr._n bradford_n one_o of_o they_o here_o mention_v by_o he_o their_o holiness_n learning_n integrity_n industry_n profound_a judgement_n mortification_n do_v not_o entitle_v they_o
preach_v and_o hear_v when_o man_n forbid_v we_o we_o shall_v do_v it_o peaceable_o and_o inoffensive_o but_o do_v it_o notwithstanding_o for_o his_o advice_n to_o the_o people_n i_o can_v approve_v it_o yet_o do_v it_o not_o reach_v our_o case_n for_o he_o advise_v to_o conformity_n for_o the_o present_a with_o express_a mention_n of_o their_o hope_n of_o a_o further_a reformation_n which_o we_o be_v out_o of_o all_o hope_n that_o ever_o our_o clergy_n will_v yield_v to_o in_o beza_n resolution_n of_o a_o case_n mention_v by_o the_o dr._n p._n 23._o i_o desiderate_a one_o cause_n of_o separation_n from_o a_o church_n to_o wit_n impose_v unlawful_a term_n of_o communion_n unless_o either_o this_o be_v comprehend_v under_o the_o right_a use_n of_o the_o sacrament_n that_o he_o mention_v or_o such_o withdraw_a be_v not_o proper_o a_o separation_n but_o a_o be_v drive_v away_o sect._n 34._o he_o say_v this_o advice_n of_o beza_n put_v a_o effectual_a stop_n to_o the_o separation_n i_o find_v no_o such_o thing_n in_o history_n but_o rather_o the_o contrary_n the_o same_o opinion_n he_o cit_v of_o gaulter_n ep_n dedicat_fw-la in_o homil_n ad_fw-la 1._o ep._n ad_fw-la corinth_n &_o zanchie_a ep_n lib._n 2._o p._n 391._o where_o gualther_n complain_v of_o the_o lie_v and_o prejudices_fw-la against_o the_o church_n of_o england_n i_o wish_v it_o have_v not_o be_v lie_v write_v by_o that_o party_n that_o make_v he_o write_v so_o and_o zanchie_a be_v even_o for_o ministerial_a conformity_n it_o be_v a_o easy_a thing_n to_o gather_v scrap_n and_o sentence_n out_o of_o man_n write_n that_o represent_v they_o as_o speak_v what_o they_o never_o think_v and_o nothing_o be_v more_o ordinary_a with_o this_o author_n than_o to_o persuade_v himself_o at_o least_o to_o endeavour_v to_o persuade_v his_o reader_n that_o all_o the_o world_n be_v of_o his_o opinion_n it_o be_v enough_o to_o we_o in_o this_o matter_n that_o the_o reform_a divine_n beyond_o sea_n do_v not_o use_v the_o ceremony_n but_o have_v condemn_v they_o and_o that_o on_o such_o ground_n as_o make_v they_o unlawful_a to_o be_v use_v to_o wit_n that_o they_o be_v vain_a worship_n addition_n to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n the_o symbol_n of_o popish_a idolatry_n etc._n etc._n and_o if_o notwithstanding_o of_o all_o this_o any_o of_o they_o will_v persuade_v we_o to_o use_v they_o their_o doctrine_n do_v hinder_v we_o to_o obey_v their_o advice_n which_o we_o look_v on_o as_o a_o overlash_n of_o charity_n to_o the_o then_o good_a bishop_n of_o england_n who_o be_v labour_v to_o reform_v the_o church_n from_o popery_n sect._n 35._o he_o tell_v we_o next_o sect._n 7._o of_o a_o new_a generation_n of_o fierce_a nonconformist_n the_o peaceable_a one_o be_v wear_v out_o it_o be_v not_o unusual_a for_o adversary_n to_o represent_v true_a zeal_n as_o fierceness_n but_o if_o there_o be_v undue_a forwardness_n among_o they_o we_o defend_v not_o the_o fault_n of_o man_n but_o the_o truth_n of_o god_n which_o they_o own_v there_o be_v a_o sinful_a fierceness_n among_o some_o of_o christ_n disciple_n when_o they_o call_v for_o fire_n from_o heaven_n luke_n 9_o 54_o 55._o but_o this_o be_v no_o argument_n against_o their_o cause_n we_o with_o sad_a heart_n behold_v the_o scandalous_a fierceness_n that_o be_v among_o some_o antiprelaâ—ists_n at_o this_o day_n but_o must_v not_o change_v our_o principle_n for_o that_o and_o be_v there_o then_o and_o be_v there_o now_o no_o fierceness_n on_o the_o otherside_n if_o we_o may_v judge_v of_o former_a day_n by_o the_o present_a we_o may_v rational_o ascribe_v the_o fierceness_n of_o some_o of_o the_o suffer_a party_n to_o that_o of_o the_o persecute_v party_n as_o the_o exciting_a cause_n for_o oppression_n make_v a_o wise_a man_n mad_a eccles._n 7._o 7._o for_o the_o complaint_n that_o mr._n fox_n make_v of_o they_o which_o he_o cit_v out_o of_o fuller_n ch._n hist._n lib._n 9_o p._n 106._o if_o the_o circumstance_n be_v consider_v it_o will_v be_v find_v not_o to_o prove_v what_o the_o dr._n bring_v it_o for_o we_o must_v know_v then_o out_o of_o the_o same_o author_n that_o the_o complaint_n in_o this_o letter_n be_v against_o some_o particular_a man_n in_o magdalen_n college_n who_o be_v no_o representative_n of_o the_o nonconformist_n that_o it_o be_v not_o occasion_v by_o any_o of_o their_o principle_n or_o religious_a practice_n but_o by_o a_o particular_a injury_n do_v by_o these_o man_n to_o mr._n fox_n as_o he_o think_v and_o mr._n fox_n be_v as_o likely_a to_o be_v bias_v in_o the_o matter_n in_o controversy_n between_o he_o and_o these_o man_n he_o complain_v of_o as_o they_o be_v the_o matter_n be_v his_o son_n samuel_n have_v leave_v the_o college_n and_o go_v beyond_o sea_n without_o leave_n either_o of_o his_o father_n or_o the_o college_n and_o at_o his_o return_n be_v suspect_v of_o popery_n and_o for_o this_o he_o be_v by_o that_o party_n that_o mr._n fox_n be_v so_o angry_a with_o expel_v the_o college_n beside_o all_o this_o any_o who_o read_v that_o letter_n of_o mr._n fox_n may_v see_v a_o strain_n and_o meet_v with_o expression_n very_o unbecoming_a old_a reverend_a and_o good_a mr._n fox_n who_o have_v always_o profess_v himself_o a_o nonconformist_a though_o he_o have_v more_o latitude_n about_o the_o use_n of_o the_o ceremony_n than_o some_o other_o have_v factiosa_fw-la ista_fw-la puritanuorm_n capita_fw-la isti_fw-la ter_z puri_fw-la puritani_n and_o some_o other_o foul_a reflection_n with_o the_o odious_a name_n that_o enemy_n give_v to_o that_o party_n be_v very_o unsavoury_a from_o such_o a_o pen_n but_o age_n and_o suppose_a injury_n must_v bear_v the_o blame_n of_o the_o peevish_a strain_n that_o be_v too_o manifest_a throughout_o that_o whole_a letter_n it_o be_v a_o hard_a case_n if_o the_o fault_n either_o real_a or_o suppose_v of_o some_o be_v always_o to_o be_v charge_v on_o all_o the_o party_n the_o dr_n own_o party_n will_v be_v black_a enough_o if_o they_o be_v thus_o deal_v with_o and_o even_o the_o historian_n no_o friend_n to_o the_o nonconformist_n call_v this_o letter_n such_o a_o strain_n of_o rhetoric_n as_o once_o tully_n use_v pro_fw-la domo_fw-la sua_fw-la and_o impute_v the_o too_o much_o passion_n in_o it_o to_o the_o unjust_a affront_n offer_v to_o he_o sect._n 36._o next_o the_o dr._n do_v high_o resent_v the_o admonition_n first_o and_o second_o present_v in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o nonconformist_n to_o the_o parliament_n by_o mr._n thomas_n cartwright_n but_o i_o see_v not_o by_o what_o he_o cit_v out_o of_o these_o admonition_n wherein_o the_o bitter_a zeal_n of_o that_o party_n appear_v neither_o that_o they_o despise_v the_o old_a trifle_a controversy_n about_o garment_n and_o ceremony_n for_o these_o be_v still_o the_o ground_n of_o their_o nonconformity_n though_o they_o complain_v also_o of_o other_o grievance_n neither_o do_v i_o find_v that_o they_o say_v all_o be_v out_o of_o course_n in_o the_o church_n they_o own_v the_o protestant_a religion_n but_o desire_v that_o the_o reformation_n may_v be_v more_o through_o by_o lay_v aside_o some_o of_o the_o remainder_n of_o popish_a superstition_n former_o overlookt_v i_o wonder_v why_o the_o dr._n shall_v startle_v so_o much_o at_o their_o complain_n of_o the_o liturgy_n bishop_n and_o archbishop_n the_o way_n of_o câ—lling_v their_o clergy_n the_o ceremony_n annex_v to_o the_o sacrament_n which_o be_v the_o grievance_n by_o these_o admonition_n lay_v before_o the_o parliament_n with_o a_o humble_a petition_n for_o redress_v of_o they_o see_v he_o know_v that_o these_o be_v the_o very_a thing_n that_o our_o controversy_n be_v conversant_a about_o and_o though_o all_o these_o be_v not_o the_o ground_n of_o our_o withdraw_n from_o their_o worship_n yet_o all_o of_o they_o be_v such_o thing_n as_o we_o be_v grieve_v with_o and_o desire_v a_o reformation_n of_o that_o he_o call_v they_o bold_a and_o groundless_a assertion_n be_v a_o more_o bold_a and_o groundless_a assertion_n than_o any_o of_o they_o for_o he_o know_v ground_n have_v be_v give_v which_o it_o be_v better_a to_o refute_v than_o rail_v at_o it_o be_v also_o strange_a that_o he_o say_v that_o these_o admonition_n give_v the_o true_a occasion_n to_o the_o follow_a practice_n of_o separation_n when_o himself_o assign_v another_o cause_n of_o it_o before_o this_o p._n 18_o 19_o and_o yet_o another_o that_o he_o date_v it_o from_o long_o after_o to_o wit_n the_o indulgence_n praef._n p._n 23._o sometime_o he_o lay_v it_o on_o the_o jesuit_n praef._n p._n 11._o and_o indeed_o he_o know_v not_o wheâ—e_a to_o lay_v it_o miss_v the_o true_a cause_n which_o be_v episcopal_a rigour_n in_o their_o unscriptural_a imposition_n on_o the_o one_o hand_n and_o conscientious_a obedience_n to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n on_o the_o other_o that_o this_o cause_n
but_o hold_v it_o for_o a_o antichristian_a society_n and_o therefore_o not_o to_o be_v communicate_v with_o aâ—d_v that_o of_o the_o independent_o who_o own_v the_o congregation_n in_o england_n to_o be_v true_a church_n but_o think_v it_o unlawful_a to_o join_v with_o they_o because_o of_o the_o mixture_n of_o scandalous_a sinner_n with_o visible_a saint_n that_o be_v among_o they_o separation_n on_o the_o first_o ground_n be_v well_o refute_v by_o the_o old_a nonconformist_n and_o that_o of_o the_o second_o by_o the_o assembly_n of_o divine_n and_o other_o presbyteriâ—ns_n both_o these_o be_v active_a separation_n choose_v by_o the_o separate_a party_n and_o that_o on_o ground_n of_o dislike_n with_o the_o church_n that_o aâ—e_v indefensible_a but_o our_o separation_n if_o it_o may_v be_v so_o call_v be_v passive_a we_o be_v drive_v away_o we_o seek_v the_o communion_n of_o our_o brethren_n we_o be_v willing_a to_o bear_v wiâ—h_v many_o thing_n that_o be_v a_o burden_n to_o we_o and_o which_o we_o wish_v to_o be_v reform_v rather_o than_o have_v separate_a meeting_n we_o own_o the_o parish_n of_o england_n as_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n the_o petition_n for_o peace_n be_v a_o public_a and_o authentic_a witness_n of_o all_o this_o but_o our_o brethren_n will_v have_v no_o communion_n with_o we_o unless_o we_o will_v own_v the_o ceremony_n that_o they_o without_o any_o warrant_n from_o scripture_n impose_v on_o we_o which_o we_o can_v do_v without_o sin_v against_o god_n and_o wound_v our_o conscience_n and_o we_o can_v and_o do_v give_v good_a reâ—son_n and_o scripture-warrant_a for_o this_o our_o scruple_n let_v then_o any_o indifferent_a person_n judge_n whether_o it_o be_v fair_a deal_n to_o condemn_v our_o not_o join_v in_o the_o public_a worship_n of_o the_o church_n by_o the_o authority_n of_o they_o who_o condemn_v these_o forementioned_a separation_n but_o occaâ—â—on_n will_v be_v give_v to_o discourse_v this_o matter_n further_o wherefore_o i_o now_o forbear_v sect._n 8._o i_o hope_v what_o have_v be_v say_v will_v evince_v that_o the_o dr_n follow_v historical_a discourse_n have_v the_o fault_n call_v ignoratio_fw-la elenchi_fw-la run_v through_o the_o whole_a texture_n of_o it_o and_o that_o it_o do_v not_o tâ—uch_v the_o question_n in_o hand_n but_o i_o shall_v take_v a_o more_o particular_a yet_o transient_a view_v of_o it_o he_o say_v sect._n 8._o at_o the_o beginning_n the_o separation_n be_v now_o bâ—gâ—n_o the_o nonconformist_n set_v themselves_o with_o the_o great_a vehemency_n against_o it_o if_o the_o dr._n will_v prove_v any_o thing_n against_o we_o he_o must_v show_v that_o there_o be_v no_o forbear_n of_o public_a ordinance_n on_o account_n of_o scruple_v the_o ceremony_n by_o the_o nonconformist_n before_o this_o the_o contrary_a of_o which_o i_o have_v show_v also_o that_o it_o be_v separation_n on_o that_o account_n and_o no_o other_o that_o they_o write_v against_o the_o contrary_a of_o which_o be_v most_o evident_a he_o may_v know_v that_o the_o presbyterian_o now_o do_v differ_v nothing_o from_o the_o old_a nonconformist_n in_o this_o for_o they_o have_v as_o much_o set_v themselves_o against_o the_o same_o sort_n of_o separation_n and_o can_v make_v it_o appear_v that_o this_o be_v no_o way_n unsuitable_a to_o their_o own_o principle_n or_o practice_n it_o seem_v by_o what_o the_o dr._n cit_v out_o of_o mr._n parker_n that_o the_o separation_n be_v charge_v on_o he_o as_o lay_v a_o foundation_n for_o it_o by_o his_o principle_n just_a as_o it_o be_v now_o with_o we_o if_o the_o dr._n can_v charge_v any_o of_o we_o with_o bitterness_n and_o pride_n the_o two_o character_n give_v by_o parker_n to_o the_o separatist_n let_v the_o guilty_a bear_v their_o blame_n but_o i_o be_o sure_a our_o principle_n that_o he_o be_v angry_a with_o import_v no_o such_o thing_n and_o therefore_o such_o a_o oblique_a reflection_n on_o we_o in_o general_a be_v not_o brotherly_a deal_n we_o love_v not_o to_o recriminate_a sect._n 9_o he_o allege_v p._n 28._o that_o of_o the_o four_o reason_n publish_v by_o barrow_n and_o greenwood_n against_o the_o separation_n three_o of_o they_o be_v take_v out_o of_o the_o admonition_n give_v in_o by_o the_o nonconformist_n to_o the_o parliament_n he_o here_o expose_v these_o nonconformist_n that_o then_o be_v as_o very_o ridiculous_a man_n who_o lay_v down_o reason_n for_o separation_n and_o yet_o be_v so_o much_o against_o other_o man_n practise_v what_o they_o give_v reason_n for_o if_o he_o think_v they_o such_o man_n why_o will_v he_o bind_v we_o to_o their_o authority_n which_o be_v the_o tendency_n of_o this_o long_a discourse_n but_o the_o dr._n do_v both_o mistake_n and_o misrepresent_v this_o matter_n his_o mistake_n be_v in_o the_o admonition_n these_o thing_n be_v present_v as_o grievance_n to_o be_v redress_v not_o as_o ground_n of_o separation_n his_o misrepresentation_n be_v these_o monitor_n do_v not_o speak_v of_o the_o ministry_n government_n and_o worship_n as_o whole_o unlawful_a antichristian_a and_o false_a for_o they_o own_v the_o ministry_n and_o worship_n whatever_o thought_n they_o have_v of_o the_o government_n as_o right_v for_o the_o substance_n though_o vitiate_v by_o some_o modes_n adhere_v to_o they_o which_o they_o desire_v to_o be_v remove_v it_o be_v true_a gilford_n say_v they_o make_v a_o vile_a schism_n rend_v themselves_o from_o the_o church_n of_o england_n but_o do_v he_o not_o add_v and_o condemn_v by_o their_o assertioâ—s_n the_o whole_a visible_a church_n in_o the_o world_n even_o as_o the_o donatist_n do_v of_o old_a time_n which_o show_v that_o it_o be_v not_o scruple_v of_o humane_a ceremony_n that_o they_o be_v charge_v with_o but_o nullify_n of_o church_n because_o of_o some_o corruption_n in_o they_o gilford_n word_n that_o follow_v p._n 29._o we_o be_v not_o concern_v in_o we_o know_v that_o many_o be_v the_o sad_a effect_n of_o that_o separation_n divert_v people_n from_o the_o serious_a exercise_n of_o religion_n to_o jangle_n and_o it_o be_v not_o without_o this_o effect_n on_o some_o where_o the_o oppress_a party_n be_v innocent_a as_o to_o the_o main_a but_o that_o prove_v not_o that_o we_o shall_v comply_v with_o unscriptural_a ceremony_n to_o shun_v this_o evil_a but_o that_o they_o shall_v not_o be_v impose_v on_o we_o as_o to_o gilford_n blame_v they_o for_o not_o come_v to_o the_o book-prayer_n this_o he_o speak_v without_o book_n either_o in_o the_o heat_n of_o disputation_n in_o which_o many_o do_v overreach_v or_o it_o be_v his_o opinion_n but_o be_v not_o we_o i_o agree_v with_o gilford_n that_o the_o corruption_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n do_v not_o make_v her_o antichristian_a and_o therefore_o the_o brownist_n be_v to_o be_v blame_v in_o separate_v from_o she_o as_o antichristian_a not_o we_o who_o be_v ready_a to_o join_v with_o she_o as_o a_o church_n of_o christ_n but_o can_v digest_v her_o humane_a ceremony_n in_o divine_a worship_n that_o gilford_n be_v a_o nonconformist_a the_o dr._n need_v not_o to_o be_v at_o so_o much_o pain_n to_o prove_v that_o all_o nonconformist_n be_v fallible_a man_n and_o some_o of_o they_o mistake_v in_o some_o thing_n we_o willing_o grant_v we_o also_o close_o with_o what_o his_o next_o author_n say_v p._n 30._o that_o he_o be_v a_o member_n of_o that_o church_n where_o he_o be_v by_o providence_n place_v and_o that_o he_o ought_v not_o to_o separate_v from_o it_o while_o it_o be_v a_o true_a church_n only_o with_o this_o exception_n unless_o that_o church_n require_v i_o to_o sin_n and_o if_o i_o will_v not_o do_v so_o exclude_v i_o which_o exception_n it_o can_v not_o be_v expect_v that_o he_o shall_v mention_v that_o not_o belong_v to_o the_o thing_n then_o controverâ—ed_v it_o be_v hard_a for_o a_o controversal_a writer_n to_o guard_v his_o word_n against_o all_o exception_n that_o contingent_a case_n not_o yet_o think_v on_o may_v afford_v the_o same_o be_v to_o be_v answer_v to_o his_o citation_n out_o of_o mr._n bernard_n and_o the_o confutation_n of_o the_o error_n of_o the_o separatist_n dâ—ne_v in_o name_n of_o the_o nonconformist_n so_o that_o this_o whole_a discourse_n of_o the_o doctor_n be_v be_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d sect._n 10._o he_o think_v sect._n 9_o to_o parallel_v our_o withdraw_n from_o the_o ceremony_n with_o the_o separation_n of_o the_o brownist_n for_o if_o that_o be_v not_o design_v i_o know_v not_o what_o his_o discourse_n tend_v to_o by_o set_v down_o the_o concession_n of_o these_o separatist_n to_o wit_n that_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v sound_a and_o save_a that_o they_o will_v not_o separate_v for_o every_o blemish_n in_o the_o church_n so_o far_o we_o agree_v but_o they_o plead_v say_v he_o that_o the_o corruption_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v such_o as_o overthrow_v the_o
apprehension_n can_v warrant_v we_o to_o break_v the_o church_n in_o piece_n the_o best_a ground_a scruple_n can_v only_o warrant_v our_o peaceable_a withdraw_a and_o worship_v god_n apart_o which_o may_v consist_v with_o the_o church_n be_v whole_a and_o sound_a he_o do_v exceed_o wrong_n mr._n b._n and_o other_o in_o that_o he_o impute_v to_o they_o a_o opinion_n that_o better_a mean_n of_o edification_n be_v by_o itself_o a_o sufficient_a ground_n of_o separate_n from_o a_o church_n if_o any_o have_v ever_o assert_v that_o let_v they_o bear_v their_o blame_n it_o may_v be_v some_o may_v mention_v this_o as_o a_o cumulative_a inducement_n to_o join_v with_o other_o society_n but_o none_o of_o we_o ever_o hold_v that_o this_o alone_a can_v warrant_v a_o separation_n and_o yet_o the_o dr._n be_v at_o a_o great_a deal_n of_o pain_n to_o prove_v that_o neither_o the_o old_a separatist_n nor_o the_o new-england-man_n ever_o hold_v such_o a_o opinion_n which_o he_o may_v have_v get_v we_o to_o yield_v to_o he_o without_o his_o spend_v five_o page_n in_o the_o proof_n of_o it_o but_o some_o man_n labour_v most_o in_o that_o which_o be_v least_o necessary_a i_o know_v not_o what_o name_n to_o give_v to_o the_o dr_n assertion_n p._n 117._o that_o this_o great_a mean_n of_o edification_n be_v now_o the_o main_a support_n of_o the_o present_a separation_n nothing_o can_v be_v speak_v with_o less_o semblance_n of_o truth_n sect_n ii_o of_o the_o ministry_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n from_o sect._n 7._o and_o forward_o the_o dr._n debate_v against_o separation_n that_o be_v ground_v on_o the_o church_n want_n of_o true_a or_o right_o qualify_v minister_n here_o i_o shall_v have_v but_o little_a debate_n with_o he_o i_o shall_v to_o cut_v off_o debate_n as_o much_o as_o may_v be_v lay_v down_o my_o own_o thought_n which_o i_o think_v be_v not_o different_a from_o those_o of_o most_o sober_a nonconformist_n especial_o presbyterian_o in_o a_o few_o particular_n 1._o we_o look_v on_o some_o of_o the_o conform_v minister_n as_o person_n of_o great_a worth_n and_o excellent_a ministerial_a qualification_n and_o can_v live_v with_o great_a satisfaction_n under_o their_o ministry_n if_o it_o be_v permit_v to_o we_o without_o our_o sin._n 2._o other_o of_o they_o we_o know_v to_o be_v very_o bad_a man_n and_o ill_o qualify_v for_o the_o work_n that_o they_o undertake_v they_o be_v stranger_n in_o england_n who_o have_v not_o see_v this_o 3._o we_o be_v dissatisfy_v with_o some_o thing_n in_o the_o call_v and_o practice_n of_o all_o the_o present_a clergy_n we_o think_v the_o very_a office_n of_o some_o of_o they_o unlawful_a as_o bishop_n dean_n arch-deacon_n etc._n etc._n and_o their_o ordination_n by_o a_o bishop_n alone_a not_o warrantable_a their_o call_n by_o patron_n we_o judge_v such_o also_o and_o their_o use_v the_o liturgy_n and_o ceremony_n we_o look_v on_o as_o sinful_a these_o thing_n i_o now_o only_o assert_v and_o shall_v debate_v they_o with_o the_o dr._n as_o they_o fall_v in_o 4._o yet_o we_o deny_v not_o any_o of_o they_o on_o any_o or_o all_o of_o these_o account_n to_o be_v true_a minister_n nor_o to_o have_v the_o substance_n of_o a_o lawful_a call_v let_v this_o be_v understand_v of_o bishop_n and_o dean_n etc._n etc._n as_o minister_n not_o as_o in_o these_o superior_a office_n 5._o though_o we_o think_v a_o better_a and_o more_o edify_a ministry_n than_o that_o which_o most_o of_o the_o people_n of_o eâ—gland_n live_v under_o very_o desirable_a yet_o we_o do_v not_o think_v that_o any_o defect_n that_o be_v in_o their_o ministerial_a call_n or_o in_o the_o truth_n of_o their_o ministry_n be_v a_o sufficient_a ground_n for_o separate_v from_o the_o church_n sect._n 2._o these_o thing_n be_v premise_v i_o be_o resolve_v not_o to_o take_v the_o defence_n of_o all_o that_o some_o have_v write_v of_o the_o defect_n of_o the_o ministry_n as_o a_o ground_n of_o separation_n though_o i_o find_v many_o thing_n cite_v by_o the_o dr._n that_o at_o first_o view_n may_v seem_v to_o have_v that_o tendency_n aâ—d_v he_o improve_v they_o with_o all_o the_o advantage_n that_o he_o can_v and_o yet_o be_v not_o so_o mean_v in_o the_o very_a entrance_n of_o this_o discourse_n i_o meet_v with_o a_o most_o unjust_a imputation_n lay_v on_o we_o by_o the_o dr._n in_o general_n say_v he_o they_o declare_v that_o they_o only_o look_v on_o those_o as_o true_a church_n which_o have_v such_o pastor_n as_o they_o approve_v and_o for_o this_o cit_v not_o oâ—e_a author_n but_o mr._n baxter_n be_v this_o fair_a deal_n do_v ever_o the_o nonconformist_n make_v mr._n baxter_n their_o general_a representative_a or_o have_v he_o so_o much_o as_o pretend_v to_o write_v in_o the_o name_n of_o they_o all_o be_v it_o candid_a in_o we_o if_o we_o shall_v pick_v out_o some_o passage_n out_o of_o dr._n sherlock_n book_n of_o the_o knowledge_n of_o christ_n and_o impute_v those_o opinion_n to_o the_o conformist_n as_o their_o doctrine_n in_o general_n beside_o mr._n baxter_n nor_o no_o nonconformist_a never_o make_v their_o approbation_n the_o rule_n by_o which_o minister_n be_v to_o be_v judge_v the_o have_v of_o who_o make_v a_o true_a church_n but_o the_o dr._n look_v on_o we_o as_o a_o company_n of_o silly_a ridiculous_a man_n and_o be_v please_v often_o so_o to_o expose_v we_o mr._n baxter_n notion_n about_o true_a pastor_n and_o true_a church_n i_o know_v he_o himself_o can_v best_o defend_v and_o therefore_o i_o leave_v he_o and_o the_o dr._n to_o debate_v that_o case_n sect._n 3_o he_o say_v sect._n 8._o if_o the_o people_n judge_v their_o minister_n to_o be_v unworthy_a or_o incompetent_a they_o allow_v thâ—m_a liberty_n to_o withdraw_v and_o to_o separate_v from_o they_o and_o promise_v to_o prove_v it_o from_o many_o passage_n in_o several_a book_n of_o mr._n baxter_n and_o other_o still_o he_o represent_v we_o as_o make_v the_o people_n judgement_n the_o rule_n and_o that_o this_o judgement_n be_v sufficient_a ground_n of_o separation_n not_o consider_v whether_o their_o judgement_n be_v right_a or_o wrong_n or_o that_o there_o be_v a_o superior_a rule_n by_o which_o all_o judgement_n whether_o of_o people_n or_o other_o be_v to_o be_v govern_v all_o this_o we_o disow_v neither_o can_v the_o dr._n prove_v that_o any_o of_o we_o ever_o own_v it_o yea_o we_o further_o deny_v that_o we_o own_o a_o power_n in_o the_o people_n to_o withdraw_v and_o separate_v from_o every_o pastor_n who_o be_v real_o unworthy_a and_o incompetent_a but_o what_o he_o assert_v he_o endeavour_v to_o prove_v by_o three_o argument_n 1._o say_v he_o p._n 122._o they_o leave_v it_o to_o the_o people_n power_n notwithstanding_o all_o legal_a establishment_n to_o own_o or_o disown_n who_o they_o judge_v fit_a this_o we_o deny_v and_o the_o proof_n he_o bring_v of_o it_o be_v mr._n b._n speak_v against_o the_o right_n of_o patronage_n and_o the_o power_n of_o magistrate_n in_o these_o case_n for_o the_o unalterable_a right_n of_o the_o people_n mr._n a._n say_v every_o particular_a church_n have_v power_n to_o choose_v its_o own_o pastor_n dr._n owen_n make_v the_o deprive_v the_o people_n of_o this_o right_n a_o ground_n of_o separation_n if_o dr._n owen_n have_v do_v so_o let_v it_o pass_v for_o a_o part_n of_o the_o independent_a judgement_n which_o be_v the_o mistake_n of_o that_o eminent_a servant_n of_o god_n other_o be_v not_o of_o that_o mind_n for_o mr._n b._n and_o mr._n a_n word_n no_o such_o consequence_n can_v be_v draw_v from_o they_o the_o people_n and_o neither_o patron_n nor_o any_o other_o by_o the_o law_n of_o the_o gospel_n have_v the_o right_n of_o election_n of_o their_o pastor_n but_o it_o do_v not_o follow_v that_o they_o ought_v not_o to_o bear_v with_o be_v hinder_v the_o exercise_n of_o this_o right_n for_o the_o sake_n of_o peace_n and_o unity_n sect._n 4._o the_o second_o argument_n be_v the_o people_n be_v make_v judge_n of_o the_o worthyness_n and_o competency_n of_o their_o minister_n this_o say_v he_o follow_v from_o the_o former_a ans._n i_o have_v disow_v the_o former_a and_o therefore_o this_o fall_v with_o it_o yet_o i_o here_o distinguish_v the_o the_o people_n have_v a_o discretive_a power_n of_o judge_v the_o fitness_n of_o the_o man_n that_o be_v to_o be_v set_v over_o they_o with_o respect_n to_o their_o soul_n so_o as_o he_o ought_v not_o to_o be_v obtrude_v on_o they_o without_o their_o be_v satisfy_v with_o he_o but_o the_o people_n power_n of_o judge_v be_v not_o authoritative_a nor_o supreme_a much_o less_o absolute_a in_o this_o matter_n but_o subordinate_a to_o the_o pastor_n of_o the_o church_n who_o have_v power_n of_o try_v the_o person_n elect_v by_o the_o people_n and_o reject_v he_o if_o unqualify_v for_o the_o spirit_n
want_n not_o of_o every_o ministerial_a quality_n that_o be_v desirable_a but_o of_o such_o as_o be_v necessary_a for_o the_o ordinance_n be_v so_o administer_v as_o we_o may_v partake_v of_o they_o without_o sin._n if_o people_n do_v mistake_v in_o any_o of_o these_o and_o run_v into_o separation_n without_o sufficient_a ground_n think_v that_o fault_n of_o a_o minister_n true_a or_o great_a or_o evident_a or_o intolerable_a which_o be_v not_o so_o we_o do_v not_o plead_v for_o this_o practice_n but_o we_o must_v not_o to_o shun_v that_o inconvenience_n say_v that_o it_o be_v in_o no_o case_n lawful_a i_o know_v no_o truth_n but_o it_o may_v be_v abuse_v by_o man_n of_o corrupt_a mind_n as_o well_o as_o this_o i_o know_v there_o be_v fault_n in_o minister_n which_o render_v they_o in_o the_o secret_a judgement_n of_o god_n and_o to_o the_o jealousy_n of_o good_a man_n no_o minister_n of_o christ_n but_o of_o satan_n which_o yet_o will_v not_o warrant_v separation_n from_o they_o while_o they_o have_v ordination_n unrepealed_a by_o a_o church_n sentence_n of_o deprivation_n and_o administer_v god_n ordinance_n so_o as_o the_o partaker_n of_o they_o be_v not_o involve_v in_o sin._n gildas_n say_v of_o some_o pastor_n in_o his_o time_n apparet_fw-la cum_fw-la quem_fw-la vos_fw-la sacerdotes_fw-la sciens_fw-la ex_fw-la cord_n dicit_fw-la non_fw-la esse_fw-la eximium_fw-la christianum_fw-la and_o o_o inimici_fw-la dei_fw-la &_o non_fw-la sacerdotes_fw-la o_fw-la liâ—â—atores_fw-la malorum_fw-la &_o non_fw-la pontifices_fw-la traditores_fw-la &_o non_fw-la sanctorum_fw-la apostolorum_fw-la successores_fw-la impugnatores_fw-la &_o non_fw-la christi_fw-la ministri_fw-la when_o we_o can_v apply_v all_o this_o to_o a_o minister_n the_o church_n ought_v to_o cast_v he_o out_o as_o unsavoury_a salt_n but_o till_o that_o be_v do_v private_a person_n ought_v to_o withdraw_v from_o his_o evil_a deed_n but_o not_o from_o the_o ordinance_n while_o they_o be_v pure_a i_o know_v this_o have_v be_v and_o be_v a_o controversy_n in_o our_o neighbour_n church_n of_o scotland_n and_o have_v give_v rise_n to_o much_o disquiet_n much_o confusion_n and_o many_o persecution_n there_o i_o shall_v not_o much_o dip_v in_o it_o our_o case_n be_v more_o clear_o state_v and_o our_o withdraw_n from_o the_o public_a assembly_n be_v found_v not_o on_o personal_a fault_n of_o minister_n but_o on_o sinful_a imposition_n in_o worship_n i_o have_v not_o meet_v with_o one_o judicious_a writer_n of_o that_o nation_n nor_o one_o minister_n that_o i_o remember_v of_o in_o private_a discourse_n who_o deny_v in_o thesi_fw-la that_o it_o be_v lawful_a to_o partake_v of_o the_o ordinance_n from_o a_o minister_n mere_o on_o account_n of_o his_o personal_a fault_n where_o the_o ordinance_n that_o we_o be_v to_o partake_v of_o be_v incorrupt_v but_o they_o state_n the_o controversy_n upon_o some_o specialty_n in_o their_o case_n one_o or_o two_o little_a manuscript_n i_o have_v see_v that_o in_o thesi_fw-la and_o with_o as_o much_o confidence_n as_o little_a reason_n deny_v the_o lawfulness_n of_o hear_v a_o scandalous_a minister_n to_o these_o i_o only_o oppose_v this_o one_o argument_n our_o lord_n command_v the_o jew_n to_o receive_v the_o ordinance_n from_o the_o priest_n of_o that_o time_n who_o be_v most_o of_o they_o very_o bad_a man_n matth._n 8._o 4._o luk._n 17._o 14._o and_o what_o christ_n bid_v they_o do_v we_o may_v lawful_o do_v in_o the_o like_a case_n the_o exception_n make_v against_o this_o argument_n that_o i_o have_v meet_v with_o be_v very_a light_n as_o that_o the_o priest_n be_v not_o so_o bad_a as_o we_o 1._o this_o be_v say_v without_o all_o colour_n of_o reason_n 2._o let_v they_o show_v what_o degree_n of_o scandal_n in_o a_o minister_n will_v warrant_v such_o withdraw_a and_o what_o not_o again_o they_o object_n that_o the_o ordinance_n can_v not_o be_v have_v but_o from_o these_o priest_n ans._n if_o it_o have_v be_v unlawful_a to_o partake_v with_o they_o christ_n will_v rather_o have_v have_v no_o sacrifice_n offer_v than_o that_o people_n shall_v sin_v in_o go_v about_o it_o he_o that_o prefer_v mercy_n to_o sacrifice_n will_v never_o prefer_v sacrifice_n to_o shun_v of_o sin._n and_o beside_o this_o if_o the_o hazard_n of_o want_n of_o ordinance_n can_v infer_v the_o necessity_n of_o join_v with_o these_o priest_n so_o may_v the_o hazard_n of_o a_o sinful_a rend_n of_o the_o church_n persuade_v to_o join_v in_o the_o case_n in_o hand_n and_o further_o where_o the_o ordinance_n can_v without_o any_o sinful_a circumstance_n be_v have_v from_o better_a hand_n i_o be_o far_o from_o advise_v any_o to_o attend_v the_o administration_n of_o bad_a man_n but_o in_o that_o nation_n they_o have_v better_a ground_n of_o their_o practice_n to_o wit_n subjection_n to_o prelacy_n require_v of_o they_o and_o that_o their_o faithful_a pastor_n be_v turn_v out_o and_o other_o put_v in_o their_o place_n but_o i_o leave_v this_o debate_n as_o not_o be_v my_o present_a work._n sect._n 11._o i_o now_o come_v to_o say_v a_o word_n of_o each_o of_o mr._n baxter_n four_o ministerial_a quality_n in_o particular_a 1._o knowledge_n and_o utterance_n the_o ordainer_n be_v the_o authoritative_a judge_n of_o these_o and_o the_o people_n be_v not_o without_o very_o great_a and_o manifest_a cause_n to_o question_v what_o be_v in_o this_o do_v by_o the_o guide_n of_o the_o church_n yet_o must_v they_o see_v with_o their_o own_o eye_n and_o lament_v the_o defect_n of_o this_o kind_n that_o they_o evident_o see_v but_o not_o separate_v while_o the_o ordinance_n be_v not_o intolerable_o deprave_v though_o there_o be_v considerable_a defect_n the_o dr._n never_o hear_v that_o the_o apostle_n bid_v people_n turn_v away_o from_o their_o minister_n for_o want_v of_o utterance_n neither_o be_v such_o a_o command_n needful_a nature_n and_o reason_n injoin_v that_o if_o a_o man_n can_v speak_v audible_o and_o intelligible_a people_n shall_v not_o come_v to_o hear_v a_o noise_n so_o that_o they_o can_v tell_v what_o be_v utter_v his_o declamation_n against_o people_n judge_v of_o a_o minister_n knowledge_n be_v out_o of_o the_o way_n we_o do_v not_o make_v they_o trier_n as_o he_o suppose_v neither_o give_v they_o authority_n and_o we_o think_v for_o all_o his_o scorn_n that_o though_o many_o cannot_v well_o discern_v a_o minister_n knowledge_n in_o controverise_n yet_o most_o can_v tell_v whether_o he_o understand_v the_o plain_a truth_n of_o the_o gospel_n when_o they_o hear_v he_o discourse_v of_o they_o if_o man_n by_o prejudices_fw-la or_o want_v of_o due_a application_n of_o their_o mind_n as_o the_o dr._n speak_v mistake_v about_o these_o i_o shall_v hardly_o call_v they_o very_o good_a man_n as_o he_o suppose_v they_o may_v be_v the_o second_o quality_n be_v that_o a_o minister_n be_v not_o heretical_a except_o taunt_n and_o personal_a reflection_n on_o mr._n b._n i_o see_v not_o what_o the_o dr._n answer_v to_o this_o we_o do_v not_o say_v that_o people_n think_v a_o man_n heretical_a when_o he_o cross_v their_o humour_n be_v a_o good_a ground_n to_o separate_v on_o as_o the_o dr._n will_v have_v it_o think_v neither_o be_v it_o needful_a for_o discern_v this_o that_o all_o the_o people_n be_v learned_a divine_n or_o have_v read_v epiphanius_n and_o binnius_n as_o he_o talk_v but_o we_o think_v they_o that_o diligent_o read_v the_o scripture_n and_o pray_v for_o spiritual_a understanding_n may_v discern_v when_o manifest_a error_n against_o the_o foundation_n of_o christian_a doctrine_n be_v teach_v and_o where_o they_o find_v this_o to_o be_v the_o way_n of_o a_o minister_n may_v withdraw_v from_o he_o i_o wish_v the_o dr._n will_v speak_v more_o plain_a that_o we_o may_v see_v his_o mind_n more_o clear_o than_o we_o can_v do_v by_o these_o jeer_n do_v he_o think_v there_o be_v none_o learned_a among_o the_o people_n or_o do_v he_o think_v that_o none_o of_o they_o that_o want_v literature_n can_v discern_v truth_n from_o error_n in_o any_o case_n or_o do_v he_o think_v dangerous_a error_n be_v discern_v to_o be_v ordinary_o preach_v people_n shall_v attend_v on_o that_o preach_a instead_o of_o the_o wholesome_a food_n of_o their_o soul_n and_o not_o seek_v better_a mean_n unless_o the_o bishop_n will_v give_v leave_n if_o he_o be_v not_o positive_a in_o all_o these_o he_o say_v nothing_o against_o mr._n b._n nor_o we_o in_o this_o matter_n sect._n 12._o the_o three_o quality_n be_v that_o minister_n be_v not_o opposer_n of_o godliness_n that_o be_v not_o to_o be_v understand_v of_o what_o people_n will_v call_v so_o without_o cause_n nor_o of_o suspect_a malignity_n nor_o of_o open_a oppose_v of_o it_o in_o the_o man_n private_a act_n by_o word_n or_o deed_n nor_o of_o close_a hint_n in_o sermon_n against_o it_o nor_o break_v out_o sometime_o into_o more_o open_a malign_v of_o it_o but_o when_o
confess_v that_o sedulius_n &_o anselmus_fw-la ad_fw-la verbum_fw-la retulerunt_fw-la hieronymi_n sententiam_fw-la in_o comment_n in_o tit._n 1._o if_o any_o reject_v the_o testimony_n of_o jerom_n because_o he_o be_v a_o presbyter_n and_o no_o bishop_n i_o hope_v they_o will_v allow_v we_o the_o like_a liberty_n to_o reject_v the_o testimony_n that_o they_o bring_v of_o they_o who_o themselves_o be_v bishop_n and_o then_o let_v they_o reckon_v their_o gain_n when_o the_o suffrage_n of_o the_o ancient_n be_v bring_v to_o the_o poll._n sect._n 18._o other_o testimony_n i_o shall_v mention_v more_o brief_o tertul._n apolog._n c._n 34._o speak_v of_o excommunication_n and_o other_o censure_n say_v they_o be_v do_v in_o the_o assembly_n and_o that_o president_n probati_fw-la quique_fw-la seniores_fw-la clem._n alexandr_n stromat_n lib._n 7._o poene_n presbyteros_fw-la est_fw-la disciplinae_fw-la quae_fw-la homines_fw-la facit_fw-la meliores_fw-la both_o these_o write_v in_o the_o begin_n of_o the_o three_o century_n wherefore_o discipline_n in_o that_o age_n be_v exercise_v in_o common_a and_o every_o assembly_n have_v its_o precedent_n with_o power_n of_o discipline_n ambrose_n who_o write_v in_o the_o end_n of_o the_o four_o century_n when_o no_o little_a deviation_n have_v be_v make_v from_o the_o right_a way_n yet_o show_v the_o church_n can_v not_o then_o bear_v sole_a jurisdiction_n for_o a_o sentence_n pass_v by_o syagrius_n be_v dislike_v quia_fw-la sine_fw-la alicujus_fw-la fratris_fw-la consilio_fw-la but_o ambrose_n pass_v sentence_n in_o the_o same_o cause_n be_v approve_v quia_fw-la cum_fw-la fratribus_fw-la &_o consacerdotibus_fw-la participatum_fw-la processit_fw-la ambros_n ep._n ad_fw-la syagrium_n and_o even_o cyprian_a as_o great_a a_o asserter_n of_o episcopal_a primacy_n as_o that_o age_n can_v bear_v ep._n 12._o 46._o join_v the_o clergy_n with_o the_o bishop_n in_o receive_v the_o lapse_v on_o their_o repentance_n i_o next_o adduce_v the_o learned_a and_o excellent_a augustine_n as_o a_o witness_n of_o this_o truth_n ep._n 19_o ad_fw-la hieron_n quamquam_fw-la enim_fw-la honorum_fw-la vocabula_fw-la quae_fw-la jam_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la usu_fw-la obtinuit_fw-la episcopus_fw-la presbytero_fw-la major_n sit_fw-la he_o make_v the_o bishop_n major_n not_o lord_n over_o the_o presbyter_n and_o even_o that_o majority_n be_v but_o by_o the_o custom_n of_o the_o church_n not_o divine_a ordinance_n and_o a_o custom_n that_o have_v now_o obtain_v be_v not_o always_o also_o lib._n quaest_n come_v he_o prove_v from_o 1_o tim._n 3._o bâ—shop_n and_o presbyter_n to_o be_v one_o and_o say_v quâ—d_fw-la est_fw-la enim_fw-la episcopus_fw-la nisi_fw-la presbyter_n and_o this_o oneness_n he_o further_o show_v because_o bishop_n such_o as_o then_o be_v to_o wit_n in_o the_o begin_n of_o the_o five_o century_n when_o the_o order_n of_o the_o church_n be_v much_o change_v call_v the_o presbyter_n compresbyteri_n but_o never_o call_v the_o deacon_n condiaconi_fw-la presbyter_n and_o bishop_n be_v the_o same_o office_n but_o deacon_n be_v distinct_a from_o they_o both_o the_o last_o testimony_n shall_v be_v that_o of_o chrysostom_n in_o 1_o tim._n 3._o homil_n 11._o inter_fw-la episco_n they_o atque_fw-la presbyterum_fw-la interest_n fere_n nihil_fw-la quip_n &_o presbyteris_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la cura_fw-la permissa_fw-la est_fw-la &_o quae_fw-la de_fw-la episcopis_fw-la dicuntur_fw-la eae_fw-la etiam_fw-la presbyteris_fw-la congruunt_fw-la sola_fw-la quip_n ordinatione_fw-la superiores_fw-la illâ—_n sunt_fw-la bellarm._n say_v that_o primasius_n theophilactus_fw-la and_o oecumenius_n on_o that_o text_n teach_v the_o same_o thing_n and_o almost_o in_o the_o same_o word_n and_o the_o second_o of_o these_o live_v in_o the_o end_n of_o the_o nine_o century_n the_o last_o in_o the_o ten_o or_o eleven_o the_o answer_n that_o bellarm._n give_v to_o this_o be_v not_o worth_a take_v notice_n of_o to_o wit_n chrysost._n mean_v that_o presbyter_n have_v jurisdiction_n as_o bishop_n have_v but_o only_o by_o commission_n from_o the_o bishop_n this_o be_v direct_o contrary_a to_o the_o scope_n of_o his_o discourse_n which_o be_v to_o show_v a_o identity_n of_o they_o as_o they_o be_v in_o themselves_o what_o he_o allege_v out_o of_o this_o citation_n that_o a_o bishop_n may_v ordain_v not_o a_o presbyter_n the_o learned_a father_n expression_n will_v not_o bear_v for_o ordination_n must_v signify_v either_o the_o ordination_n the_o bishop_n and_o presbyter_n have_v whereby_o they_o be_v put_v in_o their_o office_n to_o be_v different_a which_o he_o do_v not_o allege_v or_o that_o the_o difference_n between_o they_o be_v only_o in_o order_n or_o precedency_n not_o in_o power_n or_o any_o authority_n or_o that_o it_o be_v by_o the_o ordination_n or_o appointment_n of_o the_o church_n not_o christ_n institution_n but_o it_o can_v never_o signify_v the_o power_n of_o ordain_v for_o then_o christ_n who_o be_v sufficient_o a_o master_n of_o word_n will_v have_v say_v potestate_fw-la ordinandi_fw-la not_o ordinatione_n sect._n 19_o i_o conclude_v this_o one_o ground_n of_o scruple_n at_o the_o present_a episcopacy_n with_o 3_o consideration_n which_o though_o they_o be_v not_o concludent_a in_o themselves_o be_v but_o humane_a testimony_n yet_o may_v abate_v a_o little_a of_o our_o brethren_n confidence_n in_o assert_v their_o opinion_n about_o bishop_n to_o have_v always_o be_v the_o sentiment_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n the_o 1_o be_v that_o lombard_n and_o most_o of_o the_o schoolman_n deny_v the_o distinction_n of_o bishop_n and_o presbyter_n lib._n 4._o do_v 24._o litter_n i._o he_o tell_v we_o that_o the_o canon_n do_v only_o mention_v the_o order_n of_o presbyter_n and_o deacon_n because_o the_o primitive_a church_n have_v only_o these_o and_o of_o these_o only_o we_o have_v the_o apostle_n commandment_n the_o rest_n be_v after_o appoint_v by_o the_o church_n and_o ibid._n litera_fw-la m._n he_o show_v that_o the_o order_n of_o bishop_n archbishop_n etc._n etc._n the_o church_n borrow_v from_o the_o distinction_n of_o the_o heathen_a flamen_n horum_fw-la autem_fw-la disoretio_fw-la say_v he_o a_o gentilibus_fw-la introducta_fw-la videtur_fw-la both_o cajetan_n on_o tit._n 1._o and_o estius_n on_o the_o place_n of_o lombard_n now_o cite_v deny_v the_o divine_a right_n of_o episcopacy_n the_o 2_o consideration_n be_v that_o the_o waldenses_n albigenses_n wickliff_n and_o his_o follower_n and_o all_o they_o that_o under_o the_o darkness_n of_o popery_n maintain_v the_o same_o doctrine_n that_o the_o protestant_n now_o profess_v be_v of_o a_o parity_n among_o presbyter_n and_o disallow_v of_o diocesan_n bishop_n this_o be_v confess_v by_o medina_n and_o be_v not_o deny_v by_o bellarm_n and_o any_o that_o read_v what_o be_v write_v of_o their_o opinion_n will_v acknowledge_v this_o it_o be_v among_o wickliff_n error_n impute_v to_o he_o by_o tho._n waldensis_n that_o in_o the_o apostle_n time_n there_o be_v only_o 2_o order_n priest_n and_o deacon_n and_o that_o a_o bishop_n do_v not_o differ_v from_o a_o priest_n fuller_n ch._n hist._n lib._n 4._o cent_n 14._o p._n 132._o let_v not_o any_o impute_v this_o to_o their_o persecute_a state_n for_o we_o know_v papist_n have_v always_o have_v their_o titular_a bishop_n where_o their_o religion_n be_v suppress_v the_o three_o thing_n that_o i_o offer_v to_o be_v consider_v be_v the_o observation_n of_o spanhemius_fw-la a_o most_o diligent_a searcher_n into_o the_o history_n of_o the_o ancient_a church_n in_o his_o epitome_n isagâ—g_v ad_fw-la hist._n n._n t._n saeculo_fw-la 2._o v._o 5._o where_o he_o move_v a_o doubt_n whether_o then_o there_o be_v episcopus_fw-la praeses_fw-la only_o in_o the_o great_a church_n whether_o it_o be_v only_o praesidentia_fw-la ministerii_fw-la non_fw-la imperii_fw-la as_o tertul._n de_fw-fr pudicitia_fw-la c._n 25._o or_o only_o a_o reverence_n to_o their_o age_n and_o their_o converse_v with_o the_o apostle_n and_o whether_o it_o do_v not_o with_o the_o defection_n of_o after_o age_n receive_v addition_n sect_n iv._o the_o dr_n argument_n for_o episcopacy_n answer_v i_o return_v now_o to_o the_o reverend_a dr._n to_o hear_v what_o he_o will_v say_v for_o this_o episcopacy_n that_o we_o scruple_n on_o the_o forementioned_a ground_n i_o begin_v with_o his_o first_o undertake_v above_o mention_v to_o wit_n to_o show_v that_o our_o diocesan_n episcopacy_n be_v the_o same_o in_o substance_n which_o be_v in_o the_o primitive_a church_n and_o this_o he_o labour_v to_o prove_v concern_v the_o african_a church_n in_o the_o time_n of_o cyprian_a and_o augustine_n and_o the_o church_n of_o alexandria_n in_o the_o time_n of_o athanasius_n and_o of_o the_o church_n of_o cyprus_n in_o the_o day_n of_o theodoret._n concern_v all_o this_o in_o general_a i_o make_v two_o observation_n before_o i_o come_v to_o examine_v his_o particular_a allegation_n 1._o that_o his_o phrase_n be_v ambiguous_a that_o their_o episcopacy_n be_v the_o same_o in_o substance_n with_o we_o i_o wish_v he_o have_v show_v what_o be_v that_o substance_n of_o diocesan_n episcopacy_n that_o he_o find_v
clear_a from_o what_o have_v be_v say_v i_o have_v also_o show_v how_o irrational_a it_o be_v to_o parallel_v the_o bell_n to_o call_v people_n together_o with_o a_o sign_n state_v in_o worship_n to_o stir_v up_o or_o put_v in_o mind_n of_o it_o what_o mr._n a._n object_v that_o there_o be_v more_o need_n of_o this_o reverence_n in_o our_o ordinary_a converse_n i_o have_v touch_v before_o the_o dr._n make_v it_o a_o strange_a crossness_n to_o deny_v it_o in_o worship_n and_o then_o plead_v for_o it_o in_o other_o case_n but_o mr._n a._n do_v not_o plead_v for_o it_o in_o any_o case_n but_o use_v this_o as_o a_o good_a reason_n to_o show_v the_o folly_n of_o their_o imposition_n but_o enough_o of_o this_o sect._n 35._o the_o rest_n of_o his_o debate_n with_o mr._n a._n may_v soon_o be_v dispatch_v mr._n a._n commend_v the_o moderation_n of_o the_o canon_n 640._o not_o impose_v worship_n towards_o the_o east_n or_o altar_n but_o leave_v it_o indifferent_a and_o plead_v for_o the_o same_o indulgence_n in_o other_o rite_n as_o little_a necessary_a in_o themselves_o as_o cross_v kneel_v etc._n etc._n according_a to_o the_o apostle_n rule_v that_o differ_v party_n shall_v not_o judge_v nor_o censure_v one_o another_o rom._n 14._o 3._o the_o dr._n in_o his_o answer_n bring_v two_o reason_n of_o this_o different_a practice_n one_o be_v the_o one_o sort_n of_o thing_n be_v settle_v at_o the_o reformation_n not_o so_o the_o other_o another_o be_v the_o one_o be_v settle_v by_o law_n the_o other_o not_o it_o be_v strange_a the_o dr._n shall_v lay_v weight_n on_o either_o or_o both_o of_o these_o reason_n in_o opposition_n to_o the_o apostle_n command_v of_o forbearance_n for_o the_o question_n still_o recur_v on_o the_o first_o settler_n of_o these_o either_o by_o law_n or_o otherwise_o why_o do_v they_o impose_v thing_n so_o severe_o that_o the_o apostle_n will_v have_v we_o bear_v with_o one_o another_o in_o and_o then_o it_o recoil_v on_o the_o upholder_n of_o this_o unwarantable_a settlement_n why_o do_v they_o continue_v such_o imposition_n as_o may_v be_v for-born_a and_o divide_v the_o church_n by_o so_o do_v we_o do_v prove_v these_o thing_n unlawful_a as_o the_o dr._n require_v but_o though_o we_o shall_v fail_v in_o that_o proof_n their_o count_v they_o indifferent_a be_v enough_o to_o condemn_v such_o severe_a impose_v of_o they_o he_o say_v page_z 364._o that_o mr._n a._n think_v the_o rule_n of_o forbearance_n rom._n 14._o to_o be_v of_o equal_a force_n in_o all_o age_n and_o as_o to_o all_o thing_n about_o which_o christian_n have_v different_a apprehension_n and_o than_o papist_n may_v come_v in_o for_o a_o share_n as_o to_o worship_v the_o host_n image_n etc._n etc._n have_v mr._n a._n talk_v at_o this_o rate_n the_o dr._n will_v as_o he_o do_v on_o less_o ground_n have_v say_v his_o fancy_n have_v be_v disorder_v and_o all_o thing_n be_v not_o right_a somewhere_o do_v ever_o mr._n a._n or_o any_o of_o we_o say_v this_o or_o word_n to_o that_o effect_n we_o say_v this_o of_o thing_n indifferent_a not_o of_o thing_n about_o which_o christian_n differ_v and_o so_o i_o hope_v the_o papist_n be_v sufficient_o shut_v out_o sect._n 36._o when_o mr._n a._n or_o any_o of_o we_o blame_v the_o lead_a churchman_n for_o use_v these_o thing_n that_o be_v not_o impose_v we_o make_v this_o no_o ground_n of_o separation_n as_o the_o dr._n will_v insinuate_v what_o mr._n a._n say_v of_o disagree_v in_o a_o circustantial_a part_n of_o worship_n be_v not_o the_o conclusion_n of_o his_o discourse_n to_o prove_v a_o disagreement_n in_o substantial_a part_n of_o worship_n but_o a_o antithesis_fw-la sufficient_o prove_v to_o the_o dr_n assertion_n that_o all_o our_o difference_n be_v about_o circumstance_n of_o worship_n and_o he_o make_v it_o appear_v that_o not_o only_o they_o with_o the_o dissenter_n but_o they_o among_o themselves_o do_v so_o disagree_v while_o some_o of_o they_o bow_n to_o the_o altar_n other_o not_o if_o this_o be_v not_o a_o part_n of_o worship_n i_o see_v not_o how_o bow_v to_o a_o image_n can_v be_v call_v such_o he_o further_o blame_v mr._n a._n page_n 365._o at_o the_o end_n for_o make_v a_o sort_n of_o middle_a thing_n able_a to_o justify_v separation_n between_o substantial_a part_n of_o worship_n and_o mere_a circumstantial_o and_o the_o dr._n do_v most_o unjust_o infer_v from_o thence_o that_o separation_n be_v justify_v by_o thing_n that_o be_v neither_o substantial_a nor_o circumstantial_a part_n of_o worship_n and_o no_o part_n of_o it_o at_o all_o for_o he_o will_v not_o consider_v that_o though_o mr._n a._n do_v not_o make_v the_o ceremony_n mere_a circumstantial_o yet_o he_o make_v they_o circumstantial_a part_n of_o worship_n that_o be_v part_n of_o worship_n without_o which_o all_o that_o worship_n that_o christ_n have_v institute_v be_v confess_v to_o be_v entire_a and_o if_o mr._n a._n do_v also_o go_v about_o to_o prove_v that_o the_o ceremony_n be_v make_v by_o the_o churchman_n substantial_a part_n of_o worship_n it_o be_v no_o incoherency_n in_o he_o but_o in_o they_o who_o talk_v so_o various_o of_o these_o rite_n sometime_o as_o the_o very_a trifle_n that_o can_v be_v sometime_o as_o so_o much_o conduce_v to_o the_o glory_n and_o decency_n of_o gospel-worship_n the_o truth_n be_v substantial_a part_n of_o worship_n be_v a_o term_n of_o the_o drs._n as_o mr._n a._n tell_v he_o none_o of_o we_o and_o therefore_o if_o we_o do_v not_o apply_v it_o sometime_o to_o his_o mind_n let_v he_o blame_v himself_o for_o not_o make_v it_o more_o intelligible_a to_o we_o by_o his_o explication_n of_o it_o sect_n ix_o the_o other_o plea_n pretend_v for_o separation_n we_o come_v now_o with_o the_o dr._n to_o the_o next_o plea_n use_v for_o separation_n to_o wit_n that_o the_o dissenter_n be_v still_o unsatisfied_a in_o their_o conscience_n about_o the_o church_n term_n of_o communion_n and_o the_o church_n excommunicate_v they_o and_o therefore_o they_o can_v join_v he_o be_v please_v to_o join_v these_o two_o though_o very_o distinct_a yet_o he_o prosecute_v they_o several_o for_o the_o latter_a which_o he_o speak_v first_o of_o the_o dissenter_n plea_n that_o he_o be_v please_v to_o take_v off_o be_v the_o excommunication_n ipso_fw-la facto_fw-la by_o the_o canon_n 6._o that_o we_o all_o lie_n under_o before_o i_o consider_v his_o answer_n to_o this_o i_o must_v tell_v he_o of_o two_o thing_n that_o have_v more_o weight_n to_o justify_v our_o separation_n than_o that_o canonical_a excommunication_n 1._o that_o many_o thousand_o of_o we_o be_v otherwise_o excommunicate_v for_o our_o noncompliance_n with_o the_o ceremony_n even_o by_o the_o personal_a application_n and_o publish_v of_o the_o sentence_n against_o we_o yea_o multitude_n may_v not_o go_v to_o church_n if_o they_o will_v be_v under_o the_o writ_n de_fw-fr capiendo_fw-la excommunicato_fw-la and_o daily_o watch_v for_o to_o be_v apprehend_v this_o put_v on_o we_o a_o forcible_a necessity_n of_o non-communion_n and_o conscience_n of_o worship_v god_n and_o wait_v on_o the_o mean_n of_o grace_n engage_v we_o to_o meet_v private_o to_o enjoy_v these_o ordinance_n that_o we_o can_v have_v public_o the_o second_o thing_n be_v even_o they_o who_o be_v not_o under_o the_o sentence_n of_o excommunication_n yet_o be_v material_o excommunicate_v by_o your_o church_n if_o they_o will_v not_o comply_v with_o your_o ceremony_n for_o we_o can_v have_v none_o of_o the_o sacrament_n without_o they_o and_o your_o canon_n exclude_v we_o out_o of_o the_o church_n unless_o we_o bow_v at_o the_o name_n of_o jesus_n so_o that_o we_o can_v if_o we_o never_o so_o fain_o will_v enjoy_v god_n ordinance_n among_o you_o without_o partake_v your_o ceremony_n wherefore_o all_o the_o blame_n that_o can_v be_v cast_v on_o we_o be_v not_o use_v the_o ceremony_n from_o which_o we_o have_v sufficient_o clear_v ourselves_o in_o the_o eye_n of_o unbiased_n man_n all_o that_o follow_v on_o this_o be_v not_o to_o be_v charge_v on_o we_o but_o on_o the_o rigour_n of_o your_o church_n which_o force_v we_o from_o among_o they_o sect._n 2._o the_o dr._n answer_v to_o the_o plea_n from_o the_o canonical_a excommunion_n sect._n 33._o page_n 367._o that_o that_o excommunication_n be_v not_o against_o such_o as_o modest_o scruple_n the_o lawfulness_n of_o the_o thing_n impose_v but_o against_o those_o who_o obstinate_o affirm_v it_o and_o he_o blame_v mr._n b._n as_o miscit_v the_o word_n of_o the_o canon_n wherefore_o i_o shall_v set_v down_o the_o whole_a canon_n it_o be_v the_o can._n 6._o of_o the_o convocation_n 1603._o whosoever_o shall_v hereafter_o affirm_v that_o the_o rite_n and_o ceremony_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n by_o law_n establish_v be_v wicked_a anti-christian_n or_o superstitious_a or_o such_o as_o be_v command_v
by_o lawful_a authority_n man_n who_o be_v zealous_o and_o godly_a affect_v may_v not_o with_o any_o good_a conscience_n approve_v they_o use_v they_o or_o as_o occasion_n require_v subscribe_v to_o they_o let_v he_o be_v excommunicate_v ipso_fw-la facto_fw-la and_o not_o restore_v until_o he_o repent_v and_o public_o revoke_v these_o his_o wicked_a error_n the_o dr._n have_v a_o subtle_a distinction_n here_o between_o but_o affirm_v which_o term_n mr._n b._n have_v use_v and_o affirm_v one_o will_v think_v that_o affirm_v and_o no_o more_o add_v to_o it_o signify_v no_o more_o than_o but_o affirm_v but_o the_o dr._n say_v that_o affirm_v signify_v these_o circumstance_n which_o according_a to_o the_o common_a sense_n of_o mankind_n do_v deserve_v excommunication_n viz._n that_o it_o be_v do_v public_o and_o obstinate_o what_o ground_n the_o dr._n have_v for_o this_o criticism_n i_o know_v not_o i_o be_o sure_a his_o citation_n out_o of_o augustine_n that_o a_o man_n be_v bear_v with_o till_o he_o find_v a_o accuser_n or_o obstinate_o defend_v his_o opinion_n say_v nothing_o of_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o word_n affirm_v neither_o do_v i_o think_v that_o our_o court_n will_v be_v rule_v by_o augustine_n or_o the_o dr._n either_o if_o a_o man_n with_o the_o great_a modesty_n imaginable_a be_v ask_v why_o he_o do_v not_o conform_v shall_v say_v he_o can_v do_v it_o with_o a_o good_a conscience_n he_o fall_v under_o the_o plain_a letter_n of_o this_o law_n and_o go_v against_o the_o express_a word_n of_o it_o and_o this_o be_v the_o least_o that_o a_o modest_a man_n can_v say_v unless_o he_o will_v say_v i_o will_v not_o do_v it_o and_o that_o will_v be_v call_v obstinacy_n and_o so_o bring_v he_o under_o the_o law_n in_o the_o dr_n own_o sense_n but_o if_o the_o man_n as_o a_o modest_a man_n may_v give_v reason_n for_o his_o nonconformity_n when_o man_n require_v he_o to_o conform_v every_o word_n he_o say_v will_v bring_v he_o under_o this_o excommunication_n sect._n 3_o another_o answer_n that_o the_o dr._n bring_v against_o this_o plea_n be_v pag._n 368_o 369._o where_o he_o tell_v we_o of_o the_o opinion_n of_o canonist_n that_o such_o a_o excommunication_n be_v but_o a_o commination_n and_o can_v affect_v the_o person_n till_o a_o sentence_n be_v past_a apply_v it_o to_o he_o and_o that_o man_n under_o such_o excommunication_n be_v not_o oblige_v to_o execute_v it_o against_o themselves_o by_o withdraw_v from_o the_o church_n i_o shall_v not_o contend_v about_o this_o though_o one_o will_v think_v that_o such_o excommunication_n as_o he_o describe_v be_v rather_o ipso_fw-la jure_fw-la than_o ipso_fw-la facto_fw-la and_o that_o excommunication_n ipso_fw-la facto_fw-la bring_v one_o under_o the_o sentence_n as_o soon_o as_o the_o fact_n be_v commit_v but_o to_o let_v that_o pass_v this_o excommunication_n declare_v what_o we_o be_v to_o expect_v and_o the_o frequent_a yea_o general_a execution_n of_o it_o put_v most_o part_n out_o of_o capacity_n to_o come_v to_o church_n and_o may_v just_o alarm_n the_o rest_n to_o seek_v a_o retreat_n for_o themselves_o in_o time_n it_o be_v as_o when_o a_o act_n of_o banishment_n be_v pass_v by_o the_o magistrate_n the_o party_n be_v so_o far_o loose_v from_o his_o obligation_n to_o that_o society_n that_o he_o may_v with_o a_o good_a conscience_n withdraw_v before_o he_o be_v violent_o transport_v sure_o such_o excommunication_n and_o the_o fact_n which_o we_o neither_o deny_v nor_o be_v ashamed_a of_o be_v enough_o to_o loose_v our_o tie_n that_o we_o have_v to_o the_o church_n sect._n 4._o he_o answer_v a_o question_n can_v these_o be_v call_v schismatic_n who_o be_v first_o excommunicate_v by_o the_o church_n he_o say_v they_o may_v in_o two_o case_n 1._o when_o there_o be_v just_a cause_n for_o the_o sentence_n reply_v i_o deny_v not_o but_o such_o be_v to_o be_v condemn_v for_o their_o give_v just_a cause_n for_o such_o a_o sentence_n and_o it_o may_v be_v on_o the_o same_o ground_n they_o may_v be_v call_v schismatic_n but_o to_o call_v man_n schismatic_n for_o not_o join_v with_o a_o society_n that_o have_v cast_v they_o out_o seem_v to_o be_v such_o a_o figure_n as_o when_o man_n be_v call_v fugitive_n who_o be_v just_o banish_v but_o i_o will_v not_o contend_v about_o word_n if_o the_o dr._n can_v prove_v our_o excommunication_n just_a let_v he_o call_v we_o what_o he_o will._n the_o instance_n he_o give_v make_v nothing_o for_o that_o none_o of_o these_o church_n require_v sinful_a term_n of_o communion_n impose_v man_n devise_n in_o the_o worship_n of_o god_n and_o then_o excommunicate_a man_n for_o not_o submit_v to_o they_o his_o second_o case_n in_o which_o excommunicate_n be_v schismatic_n be_v if_o they_o set_v up_o new_a church_n which_o he_o prove_v from_o the_o instance_n of_o the_o church_n that_o he_o have_v before_o mention_v reply_v he_o now_o suppose_v the_o excommunication_n to_o be_v unjust_a else_o this_o case_n be_v coincident_a with_o the_o former_a and_o in_o that_o case_n i_o distinguish_v his_o assertion_n the_o unjust_a excommunication_n be_v either_o for_o a_o allege_a personal_a fault_n or_o for_o a_o principle_n of_o religion_n unjust_o call_v false_a again_o it_o be_v either_o pass_v against_o one_o or_o few_o or_o it_o be_v against_o a_o great_a multitude_n a_o considerable_a part_n of_o a_o church_n or_o nation_n if_o it_o be_v for_o a_o allege_a personal_a fault_n where_o it_o be_v hardly_o suppose_v that_o a_o great_a part_n of_o the_o church_n can_v be_v concern_v i_o do_v not_o say_v that_o such_o may_v set_v up_o new_a church_n it_o be_v fit_a such_o shall_v quiet_o wait_v till_o they_o can_v be_v clear_v they_o have_v in_o that_o case_n no_o ground_n to_o charge_v the_o church_n with_o any_o fault_n in_o doctrine_n worship_n or_o discipline_n but_o in_o the_o mis-application_n of_o a_o true_a and_o right_a way_n of_o discipline_n but_o where_o the_o unjust_a excommunication_n be_v for_o a_o sound_a principle_n false_o call_v error_n and_o it_o also_o reach_v a_o great_a part_n of_o the_o church_n minister_n and_o people_n i_o see_v no_o reason_n why_o they_o shall_v not_o have_v the_o worship_n of_o god_n among_o themselves_o let_v man_n call_v it_o set_v up_o of_o new_a church_n or_o what_o they_o will._n for_o 1._o it_o be_v strange_a if_o the_o half_a of_o a_o church_n or_o nation_n or_o near_o so_o many_o shall_v be_v oblige_v to_o live_v without_o the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n for_o the_o caprice_n of_o some_o ambitious_a churchman_n who_o excommunicate_v they_o because_o they_o will_v not_o dance_v after_o their_o pipe._n 2._o in_o this_o case_n the_o orthodox_n have_v be_v schismatic_n when_o they_o be_v excommunicate_v by_o the_o arian_n and_o set_v up_o new_a church_n 3._o christ_n shall_v oblige_v his_o people_n to_o live_v without_o his_o ordinance_n because_o of_o their_o love_n to_o the_o purity_n of_o they_o what_o the_o author_n object_v out_o of_o augustine_n be_v not_o to_o be_v understand_v of_o our_o case_n but_o for_o private_a man_n excommunicate_v for_o falsly-imputed_n crime_n not_o for_o any_o thing_n of_o their_o faith_n for_o he_o bid_v they_o keep_v the_o true_a faith_n without_o separate_a meeting_n sect._n 5._o our_o author_n proceed_v in_o the_o end_n of_o page_n 371._o and_o forward_o to_o consider_v another_o plea_n make_v for_o separation_n to_o wit_n scruple_n of_o conscience_n which_o i_o think_v none_o do_v make_v the_o sole_a ground_n of_o separation_n but_o they_o have_v a_o ground_n for_o their_o scruple_n if_o that_o ground_n be_v good_a it_o will_v warrant_v the_o scruple_n and_o the_o separation_n too_o if_o not_o it_o can_v do_v neither_o and_o therefore_o i_o shall_v not_o insist_v on_o this_o as_o a_o plea_n distinct_a from_o what_o i_o have_v already_o defend_v i_o suppose_v the_o author_n that_o mention_v it_o intend_v no_o more_o than_o i_o say_v only_o they_o may_v rational_o maintain_v that_o a_o scruple_n not_o sufficient_o warrant_v in_o a_o person_n otherwise_o sober_a and_o sound_a about_o a_o matter_n indifferent_a or_o not_o intolerable_o evil_a though_o it_o do_v not_o free_a the_o scrupler_n from_o all_o blame_n yet_o may_v oblige_v the_o church_n not_o to_o impose_v with_o rigour_n the_o thing_n so_o scruple_v on_o such_o a_o person_n the_o dr._n here_o do_v not_o act_v the_o part_n of_o a_o disputant_n nor_o a_o casuist_n but_o of_o somewhat_o else_o that_o i_o shall_v not_o name_v for_o when_o it_o have_v be_v plead_v that_o these_o scruple_n be_v great_a of_o long_o stand_v not_o to_o be_v remove_v without_o very_o overpower_v impression_n on_o man_n mind_n he_o answer_v by_o a_o harange_a full_a of_o contempt_n of_o his_o adversary_n that_o a_o little_a impartiality_n and_o consideration_n will_v do_v it_o but_o that_o