Selected quad for the lemma: ground_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
ground_n	authority_n	church_n	faith_n	5,185	5	6.2589	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
B12489	A persvvasion to the English recusants, to reconcile themselues to the Church of England Written for the better satisfaction of those which be ignorant. By Iohn Doue Doctor of Diuinitie.	Dove, John, 1560 or 61-1618.	1603 (1603)	STC 7085; ESTC S110110	29,134	40

Constance especialy they holding such a Principle as they are not bound to keepe faith and fidelitie with an heretike But suppose wee had beene present wee should haue stood for ciphers and not for a number because they were linked together in the same confederacie to suffer nothing to passe which might be preiudiciall to the See of Rome Thirdly Bellarmine defineth those councels Tom. 1. controuers 4. cap. 4. onely to be vniuersall where all Bishops of the world either were or might be present these be his words Vbi adsunt aut adesse possunt omnes Episcopitotius orbis and in the next chapter he defineth that councell onely to be lawfull which the Pope hath approoued and the catholikes generally haue receiued But neither all could be present as I haue declared neither haue the greater part of Catholikes yet receiued that councell with the decrees thereof for they are refused by the Catholikes of Germanie France Hungary Bohemy Poland as our owne experience can tell vs. In the third place forasmuch as I haue shewed you that Christians dwelling in one place are to meete together for the exercise of their religion which consisteth in these three things prayer the word and the Sacraments Let vs examine the worde which we teach the leiturgie or forme of prayers which we vse the maner of our administration of the sacraments whereof wee would that they should be partakers Concerning the doctrine as I saide before wee holde with them the same Creede and the same Bible concerning which Bible these haue bin the chiefest differences betweene them and vs which follow First whether all the books of the Bible be canonicall or no They affirme that Tobie Baruch Iudith Ecclesiasticus Wisdome the Maccabees and the fragment of Esther c be canonicall we holde them for Apocripha They prooue them to be canonicall out of Saint Augustine we that they be Apocripha out of Saint Hierome both which doctors are of no small authoritie with the Church of Rome and therefore in this wee differ no more from them than Saint Hierome did from Saint Augustine which did both agree and were easily reconciled S. Hierome interpreteth Saint Augustines meaning that they were canonicall enough to prooue rules of life not groundes of doctrine and faith Thus Saint Hierome answered Saint Augustine in the Primitiue Church thus we haue answered the Papists of our age and Bellarmine since this answere was giuen handling this controuersie at large replieth not against our answer Onely he prooueth in generall termes that they be canonical which we do also confesse but hee dooth not so much as mention this destruction of Cannons of faith and Cannons of good life and manners much lesse dooth hee reply against it therefore wee take it proconcesso as a thing graunted by the Lawes of disputations De verbo Dei lib. 1. capitibus 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15. that hee holdeth as wee holde fl●eth to our defence and so resteth satisfied with our answer and the case to be cleere betweene vs both Secondly A question hath beene debated betweene vs concerning the Bible forasmuch as there be many editions as Hebrue Greeke Latine which is the best Wee say the Hebrew they the Latine and the councell of Trent hath obtruded to vs one only Latine edition that is the old vulgare translation and decreed that it onely should be authenticall and no other that all others should be corrected by it and it by none Wee grant it fit that for vniformitie in quotations of places in schools and pulpits one Latine text should be vsed and we can be contented for the antiquitie thereof to preferre that before all other Latine books so much we do yeeld to the Councell But forasmuch as that translation hath many faults as al other translations haue because they are the workes of men we preferre the originall that is the olde Testament in the Hebrew and the new in Greeke farre before it forasmuch as they were written by the finger of God the Holy Ghost which cannot erre And Bellarmine condescendeth to our opinion as more sound than the decree of the councell of Trent shewing that wheresoeuer the Latine bookes do discent one from another that it may be discerned which is the truest each of them to be examined by the originall which is of greater authoritie and the Latine bookes to be corrected by them that onely to be sound which agreeth with them and that to be reiected which discenteth from them His words are these Ad aliud de emendatione Latinorum codicum ad Hebraeos De verbo Dei lib. 2. cap. 11 Graecos respondeo quatuor temporibus licere nobis recurrere al fontes Hebraeos Graecos vt illi patres monent Primo quando in nostris codicibus videtur esse error librariorum c Secundo quando Latini codices variant vt non possit certò status quae sit vera vulgata Lectio possumus ad fontes recurrere inde iuuari ad veram Lectionem inueniendam Sic Iosue 5. quidam Latini codices habent Quibus iurauit vt ostenderet illis terram lecte fluentem molle quidam habent vt non ostenderet c vera lectio videtur esse posterior Nam in Hebraeo constantèr additur Non. Sicut è contrariò Iosue 11. Quidam codices habent Non fuit ciuitas quae non se traderet Quidam habent Non fuit ciuitas quae se traderet Et hoc est verius quià conforme est Hebraeo verba sequentia id requirunt Sic Lucae 1. quidem codices habent Redemptionem plebisuae Quidam plebi suae haec videtur verior cùm in Graeco sit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 A third question concerning the Bible is whether all grounds of saluation all things which are absolutely necessarie for a Christian man to know be contained in the corpes and body of the Bible They haue held in times past that the Bible was insufficient Vide Concil Trident. and therefore they added vnto it traditions which they call vnwritten verities and would haue them to be of as great authoritie as the scriptures as necessary to bee beleeued and obayed but now Bellarmine as if he were ashamed of that ascertion doth relinquish it and after he hath spoken in the defence of traditions what he can concludeth that all things which are necessary are contained in the Apostles His wordes are these Primum De verbo Dei lib. 4. cap. 10 est quaedam in doctrinâ Christianâ tam fides quam morum esse simpliciter omnibus necessaria ad salutem qualis est notitia articulorum Symboli Apostolici item congnitio decem praeceptorum nonnullorum sacramentorum Cetera non ita necessaria sunt vt sine eorum explicatâ notitiâ fide professione saluari homo non possit modo promptam habeat voluntatem ea suscipiendi credendi quando sibi fuerint legitimè per Ecclesiam proposita c

His notatis dico illa omnia scripta esse ab Apostolis quae sunt omnibus necessaria quae ipsi palàm omnibus vulgo praedicauerant alia autem non omnia scripta esse But whatsoeuer they can prooue out of the Bible we will receiue as for things which are not necessarie although we discent concerning them they ought not therefore to refuse to communicate with vs. A fourth question is of the authoritie of the scriptures and who ought of right to be iudge of the same They were wont to hold the Church that is the generall Councell to be aboue the scriptures and the vndoubted Iudge of the same we the contrarie Now Bellarmine condescendeth vnto vs that the iudgement of the church specified in the councel of Trent may so farre De verbo Dei lib. 3. cap. 1● be subiect to the scriptures as to be examined by the scriptures and that the authority of the Church is inferior to the authority of the scriptures His words are these Addo etiam quod etsi haereticus peccat dubitando de auctoritate Ecclesiae in quam per Baptismum regeneratus est neque est eadem conditio haeretici qui semel fidem professus est Iudaei aut Ethnici qui nunquam fuit Christianus tamen posito hoc dubio hoc peccato non male facit scrutando examinando an loca scripturae Patrum à concilio Tridentino prelata ita sehabeant modo id faciat intentione inueniendi veritatem non calumnian di Deberet quidem ille sine examine recipere doctrinam Ecclesiae tamen melius est vt examinando praeparetur adveritatem quam negligendo remaneat in suis tenebris And againe in the same Chapter Decimum quartum argumentum Si Pontifex indicat de scripturis sequitur Pontificem seu concilium esse supra scripturam si scripturae sensus ●sine Pontifice seu concilio non est authenticus sequitur verbum Dei accipere robur firmitatem à verbo Hominum Respondeo hoc argumentum quod ab haereticis plurimi fit totum in aequiuocatione versari Nam duobus modis potest intelligi Ecclesiam iudicare de scripturis vno modo quod iudicat verúmne sit an falsum quod scripturae docent altero modo quod posito vt fundamento certissimo scripturae verba esse verissima iudicet quae sit vera eorum interpretatio Et quidem si primo modo Ecclesia iudicaret verè esset supra scripturam sed hoc non dicimus quamuis haeretici calumnientur id nos dicere qui passim vociferantur nos subijcere scripturam pedibus Papae At secundo modo iudicare Ecclesiam vel Pontificem de scripturis quod nos asserimus non est Ecclesiam esse supra scripturam sed supra iudicia priuatorum hominum Non enim iudicat Ecclesia de veritate scripturae sed de intelligentiâ tuâ meâ aliorum Neque hinc sumit verbum Dei aliquod robur sed intelligentia nostra Non enim scriptura est verior aut certior quia sic ab Ecclesia exponitur sed mea sententia est verior quando ab Ecclesia confirmatur Thus I could goe almost through all the controuersies betweene them and vs. But I doe content my selfe with the fundamentall points Therefore I exhort them which hold vs for heretikes first to reade diligently to peruse and examine their owne writers and what they hold to conferre their groundes with ours and then to examine their owne iudgements whether they finde vs heretikes or no. And as for those matters which be no fundamentall poyntes although in them wee discent wee must not dispaire of their conuersion For God neither hath nor will reueale vnto them all trueth at once but as the blind man in the Ghospell when hee first beganne to see thought hee sawe Marke 8 men walking like trees but when our Sauiour touched his eyes againe he saw more clearely So God will lighten the darknesse of their hearts and take away the vaile or couering which is before them by degrees vntill they come to the full measure of knowledge which the Holy Ghost shall iudge expedient to be reuealed vnto them Of Faith and Workes TO leaue these generall grounds and to dispute more particularly They hold with Saint Iames that workes do iustifie Iam. 2. Rom. 5. we with Saint Paul iustification by Faith and sith these two Apostles differ in wordes and not in meaning why should wee disagree holding the same which they doe hold Faith goeth before and workes follow after iustification but both do iustifie so Saint Paul argueth from that which is precedent Saint Iames argueth from that which is subsequent and both argue well According to the Grammaticall signification of the word as to iustifie signifieth iustum facere to make a man iust so neither faith nor yet workes do iustifie but God alone according to the acception which is vsed in Law as to iustifie signifieth iustum declarare to absolue a man and pronounce him iust out of the mouth of a iury or a Iudge so faith which is inuisible iustifieth vs before the inuisible god which seeth our invisible faith works which are visible iustifie vs before visible men which see our workes as they be visible and sensible things As the Angels when they came vnto Lot had not beene intertained had they not cloathed themselues with bodily shapes so men cannot discerne our faith vnlesse it be as it were cloathed and beautified with workes But to speake of that which is worst They hold Gen. 19 that workes are meritorious and therefore they worke that they may merit heauen we ascribing lesse vnto our selues and more vnto God thinke not so honourably of our workes and yet wee thinke workes as necessary as they doe and therefore wee will worke and we will worke that we may be saued and wee will worke out our saluation with feare and trembling Wee holde workes necessarie for them which will inherit but not for them which will merit and therefore we worke not that wee may merit Phil. 2. yet that we may inherite and our workes haue these foure necessary vses that by them we may glorifie God benefite our neighbour exercise our faith and make our election sure For with vs this is the very definition of a worke An action of the regenerate according to the Law of God done to these ends that God by it may be glorified our neighbor profited our faith exercised and our election confirmed And although wee worke not for that end as they do yet because without workes we must not thinke to please God wee will worke as much as they doe and the same workes which they doe with the same zeale which they doe which thinke to merit Wee will worke as earnestly as if we thought to merit and yet we wil be farre off from thinking that we merit because when we haue done all that Luc. 17 we are