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ground_n authority_n church_n faith_n 5,185 5 6.2589 4 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A69195 Certaine demandes with their grounds, drawne out of holy writ, and propounded in foro conscientiæ by some religious gentl. vnto the reverend fathers, Richard archbishop of Canterbury, Richard bishop of London, William bishop of Lincolne, Garvase bishop of Worcester, William bishop of Exeter, & Thomas bishop of Peterbourough wherevnto the said gentl. require that it would please their lordships to make a true, plaine, direct, honest and resolute aunswere. Bancroft, Richard, 1544-1610. 1605 (1605) STC 6572.5; ESTC S112734 57,418 70

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certain_a demand_n with_o their_o ground_n draw_v out_o of_o holy_a writ_n and_o propound_v in_o foro_fw-la conscientiae_fw-la by_o some_o religious_a genntl_n unto_o the_o reverend_a father_n richard_n archbishop_n of_o canterbury_n richard_n bishop_n of_o london_n william_n bishop_n of_o lincoln_n garvase_n bishop_n of_o worcester_n william_n bishop_n of_o exeter_z &_o thomas_n bishop_n of_o peterbourough_n whereunto_o the_o say_v gentl._n require_v that_o it_o will_v please_v their_o lordship_n to_o make_v a_o true_a plain_a direct_a honest_a and_o resolute_a answer_n isai_n 66._o 5._o hear_v the_o word_n of_o the_o lord_n all_o you_o that_o tremble_v at_o his_o word_n your_o brethren_n that_o hate_v you_o &_o cast_v you_o out_o for_o my_o name_n sake_n say_v let_v the_o lord_n be_v glorify_v but_o he_o shall_v appear_v to_o your_o joy_n and_o they_o shall_v be_v ashamed_a jer._n 23._o 27_o think_v they_o to_o cause_v my_o people_n to_o forget_v my_o name_n by_o their_o dream_n which_o they_o tell_v every_o man_n to_o his_o neighbour_n as_o their_o forefather_n have_v forget_v my_o name_n for_o baal_n isai_n 8._o 16._o bind_v up_o the_o testimony_n seal_v up_o the_o law_n among_o my_o disciple_n isai_n 8._o 20._o to_o the_o law_n and_o to_o the_o testimony_n if_o they_o speak_v not_o according_a to_o this_o word_n it_o be_v because_o there_o be_v no_o light_n in_o they_o 1605._o to_o the_o reverend_a father_n etc._n etc._n right_o reverend_a father_n your_o lordship_n have_v be_v a_o long_a time_n divinity_n reader_n in_o the_o school_n of_o christ_n and_o some_o of_o we_o also_o a_o long_a time_n scholar_n bring_v up_o in_o the_o same_o school_n at_o your_o foot_n give_v we_o leave_v we_o pray_v you_o by_o way_n of_o question_n and_o not_o of_o definition_n to_o propound_v these_o demand_n follow_v and_o as_o we_o brief_o and_o plain_o have_v oppose_v so_o let_v your_o lordship_n be_v well_o please_v simple_o and_o honest_o to_o make_v we_o answer_v for_o we_o have_v as_o the_o man_n of_o beraea_n do_v search_v the_o scripture_n for_o our_o satisfaction_n in_o the_o doubt_v propound_v and_o out_o of_o they_o not_o be_v able_a to_o resolve_v ourselves_o our_o desire_n be_v to_o be_v resolve_v by_o man_n of_o great_a skill_n and_o not_o to_o rest_v ourselves_o upon_o our_o own_o judgement_n now_o than_o we_o thus_o propound_v and_o we_o thus_o demand_v first_o whether_o every_o supreme_a christian_a magistrate_n for_o church_n every_o command_n to_o be_v give_v by_o virtue_n of_o his_o christian_a magistracy_n touch_v the_o worship_n of_o god_n ought_v not_o to_o have_v the_o word_n of_o faith_n for_o the_o ground_n and_o warrant_v of_o his_o command_n that_o so_o his_o command_n be_v of_o faith_n may_v not_o be_v of_o sin_n second_o whether_o any_o supreme_a christian_a magistrate_n by_o authority_n church_n of_o holy_a writ_n be_v enable_v to_o devise_v ordain_v and_o appropriate_v a_o ministerial_a garment_n for_o the_o ministry_n of_o the_o gospel_n without_o put_v on_o of_o which_o garment_n he_o may_v command_v the_o minister_n of_o the_o gospel_n neither_o public_o to_o pray_v to_o preach_v the_o worde_n nor_o administer_v the_o sacrament_n three_o if_o it_o be_v lawful_a for_o a_o sovereign_a christian_a magistrate_n by_o authority_n of_o holy_a writ_n to_o ordain_v and_o appropriate_v a_o ministerial_a garment_n for_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o gospel_n than_o we_o demand_v whether_o by_o authority_n of_o holy_a writ_n he_o may_v ordain_v and_o appropriate_v such_o a_o ministerial_a garment_n as_o in_o matter_n and_o form_n differ_v not_o from_o that_o proper_a and_o necessary_a priestly_a garment_n which_o the_o prince_n &_o chief_a priest_n of_o idolatry_n have_v appropriate_v to_o be_v wear_v by_o his_o jdolatrous_a priest_n in_o their_o idol_n service_n the_o reason_n move_v we_o to_o make_v the_o first_o demand_n respect_v some_o other_o rather_o than_o ourselves_o for_o we_o doubt_v not_o but_o that_o every_o supreme_a christian_a magistrate_n will_v agnize_v that_o every_o his_o mandatorie_a action_n concern_v the_o outward_a worship_n of_o god_n of_o what_o nature_n or_o quality_n soever_o it_o be_v if_o it_o be_v not_o sin_n must_v be_v of_o faith_n and_o that_o no_o such_o action_n of_o he_o can_v be_v of_o faith_n unless_o the_o same_o have_v the_o word_n of_o faith_n for_o the_o ground_n and_o warrant_v thereof_o concern_v the_o second_o demand_n for_o our_o part_n we_o never_o yet_o read_v of_o any_o commandment_n of_o any_o word_n of_o faith_n or_o of_o any_o godly_a example_n in_o holy_a writ_n whereby_o the_o supreme_a christian_a magistrate_n be_v either_o direct_o or_o by_o consequence_n enable_v to_o ordain_v and_o appropriate_v a_o ministerial_a garment_n for_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o gospel_n for_o howsoever_o by_o imitation_n of_o the_o priestly_a garment_n ordain_v for_o the_o leviticall_a priesthood_n under_o the_o law_n your_o lordship_n may_v think_v that_o a_o ministerial_a garment_n may_v lawful_o be_v command_v for_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o gospel_n nevertheless_o there_o be_v a_o express_a commandment_n give_v unto_o moses_n under_o the_o law_n for_o the_o one_o and_o no_o general_a or_o particular_a rule_n deliver_v unto_o a_o christian_a magistrate_n in_o the_o gospel_n for_o the_o other_o we_o desire_v to_o be_v satisfy_v by_o your_o lordship_n whether_o such_o a_o imitation_n of_o leviticall_a garment_n be_v lawful_a yea_o or_o no_o if_o your_o lordship_n answer_n that_o the_o institution_n of_o a_o ministerial_a garment_n under_o the_o gospel_n be_v not_o by_o imitation_n from_o the_o leviticall_a law_n than_o we_o demand_v from_o whence_o the_o original_a and_o offspring_n of_o that_o ministerial_a garment_n come_v if_o your_o lordship_n answer_n that_o it_o spring_v original_o from_o man_n invention_n than_o you_o direct_o charge_v the_o christian_a magistrate_n to_o have_v no_o rule_n of_o faith_n for_o the_o guidance_n of_o his_o conscience_n in_o the_o institution_n of_o a_o ministerial_a garment_n for_o your_o lordship_n very_a well_o know_v and_o according_a to_o this_o your_o own_o knowledge_n have_v a_o long_a time_n teach_v we_o that_o no_o devise_n or_o invention_n of_o man_n can_v be_v a_o divine_a rule_n for_o a_o christian_a magistrate_n conscience_n to_o be_v guide_v by_o but_o aswell_o for_o the_o better_a clear_n of_o the_o proper_a and_o right_a use_n of_o the_o priestly_a garment_n under_o the_o law_n as_o also_o of_o the_o clear_a open_n of_o this_o point_n namely_o that_o no_o reason_n can_v be_v yield_v from_o the_o use_n of_o the_o priestly_a garment_n under_o the_o law_n for_o the_o use_n of_o ministerial_a garment_n under_o the_o gospel_n we_o demand_v whether_o your_o lordship_n do_v ever_o read_v in_o any_o part_n of_o holy_a writ_n that_o the_o priest_n be_v command_v to_o eat_v the_o passeover_n in_o any_o other_o garment_n then_o in_o their_o ordinary_a garment_n whether_o 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the_o execution_n of_o that_o his_o prophetical_a function_n 1●_n and_o this_o again_o be_v make_v more_o manifest_a by_o those_o word_n which_o saul_n use_v when_o meet_v with_o samuel_n in_o the_o midst_n of_o the_o gate_n of_o one_o of_o the_o city_n of_o zuph_n he_o question_v with_o he_o after_o this_o manner_n tell_v i_o i_o pray_v thou_o where_o the_o seer_n house_n be_v for_o have_v the_o prophet_n be_v know_v in_o those_o day_n by_o their_o proper_a prophetical_a garment_n than_o need_v not_o saul_n in_o the_o midst_n of_o the_o gate_n and_o at_o so_o solemn_a a_o feast_n to_o have_v inquire_v of_o samuel_n for_o the_o seer_n house_n but_o it_o be_v write_v that_o saul_n know_v that_o it_o be_v samuel_n when_o a_o old_a 1._o man_n come_v up_o lap_v in_o a_o mantel_n and_o isayah_n be_v command_v to_o loose_v his_o sackcloth_n from_o his_o loin_n and_o to_o put_v off_o his_o shoe_n from_o
than_o tradition_n or_o commandment_n of_o man_n be_v only_o please_a unto_o man_n touch_v which_o latter_a kind_n of_o decency_n and_o order_n the_o same_o be_v but_o humane_a we_o demand_v if_o either_o minister_n or_o people_n be_v not_o full_o persuade_v in_o mind_n that_o this_o humane_a decency_n and_o order_n be_v by_o some_o general_a rule_n of_o holy_a writ_n aswell_o please_v unto_o god_n as_o the_o same_o by_o some_o law_n of_o man_n be_v know_v to_o be_v well_o please_v unto_o man_n we_o demand_v we_o say_v in_o this_o case_n whether_o minister_n or_o people_n in_o foro_fw-la conscientiae_fw-la be_v oblige_v to_o use_v this_o so_o call_v and_o command_v decency_n or_o order_n yea_o or_o no_o for_o albeit_o every_o soul_n be_v subject_a to_o the_o high_a power_n nevertheless_o for_o the_o avoid_n of_o error_n and_o that_o the_o conscience_n of_o every_o soul_n may_v be_v upright_o with_o god_n in_o her_o subjection_n to_o the_o ordinance_n of_o man_n the_o conscience_n must_v take_v direction_n not_o from_o the_o only_a will_n and_o authority_n of_o man_n but_o from_o the_o only_o write_v and_o authority_n of_o god_n and_o therefore_o as_o every_o magistrate_n aught_o to_o be_v full_o persuade_v in_o his_o conscience_n of_o his_o command_n before_o he_o conscionable_o may_v require_v that_o to_o be_v obey_v which_o he_o command_v even_o so_o it_o be_v hove_v every_o soul_n before_o he_o obey_v to_o be_v persuade_v full_o in_o his_o mind_n that_o the_o thing_n command_v aught_o for_o conscience_n sake_n to_o be_v obey_v because_o the_o same_o be_v approve_v by_o the_o holy_a word_n of_o god_n for_o otherwise_o howsoever_o outward_o he_o may_v serve_v and_o please_v the_o magistrate_n yet_o inward_o &_o in_o the_o spirit_n he_o can_v never_o be_v assure_v that_o in_o this_o case_n he_o shall_v serve_v god_n because_o the_o magistrate_n commandment_n simple_o consider_v in_o itself_o be_v not_o any_o true_a spiritual_a guide_n for_o the_o conscience_n of_o any_o soul_n to_o be_v lead_v and_o conduct_v by_o now_o then_o to_o your_o lordship_n former_a question_n whether_o the_o church_n and_o supreme_a christian_n magistrate_n ought_v not_o to_o sit_v as_o sovereign_a judge_n upon_o the_o conscience_n of_o every_o soul_n about_o the_o determination_n of_o all_o decency_n and_o order_n to_o be_v keep_v by_o that_o soul_n your_o lordship_n by_o this_o our_o discourse_n easy_o may_v perceive_v that_o we_o may_v well_o answer_v your_o demand_n if_o we_o propound_v but_o one_o question_n to_o another_o and_o therefore_o we_o demand_v who_o shall_v be_v sovereign_a judge_n over_o that_o soul_n and_o conscience_n that_o command_v decency_n &_o order_n in_o the_o church_n if_o not_o only_o the_o holy_a word_n of_o god_n alone_o and_o if_o the_o christian_n magistrate_n must_v for_o the_o safety_n of_o his_o soul_n have_v some_o rule_n of_o holy_a write_v to_o be_v his_o sovereign_a judge_n for_o the_o thing_n that_o he_o command_v how_o shall_v not_o the_o christian_n subject_n in_o like_a sort_n for_o the_o safety_n of_o his_o soul_n have_v some_o word_n of_o faith_n to_o be_v his_o sovereign_a judge_n for_o his_o subjection_n in_o the_o thing_n which_o he_o obey_v for_o so_o shall_v not_o the_o conscience_n of_o he_o that_o command_v be_v any_o more_o a_o sovereign_a judge_n over_o he_o that_o obey_v then_o shall_v the_o conscience_n of_o he_o that_o obey_v be_v sovereign_a judge_n over_o he_o that_o command_v but_o sir_n if_o this_o be_v so_o what_o soverainitie_n do_v you_o yield_v unto_o the_o christian_a bb._n magistrate_n above_o the_o subject_n or_o what_o shall_v his_o authority_n avayle_n when_o every_o soul_n command_v to_o be_v subject_a to_o his_o power_n shall_v examine_v the_o validity_n of_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o his_o command_n shall_v not_o every_o rule_n of_o holy_a writ_n whereupon_o the_o christian_n magistrate_n do_v grind_v his_o conscience_n for_o the_o thing_n command_v be_v a_o good_a and_o sufficient_a ground_n for_o the_o conscience_n of_o every_o one_o in_o the_o thing_n that_o be_v obey_v unto_o this_o we_o answer_v that_o the_o christian_a magistrate_n conscience_n can_v gentl._n not_o be_v any_o sufficient_a discharge_n for_o the_o conscience_n of_o he_o that_o obey_v unless_o your_o lordship_n be_v able_a to_o prove_v unto_o we_o by_o some_o place_n of_o holy_a writ_n that_o the_o magistrate_n touch_v the_o lawfulness_n of_o the_o thing_n command_v can_v not_o err_v for_o every_o soul_n aswell_o of_o the_o subject_n must_v answer_v &_o give_v a_o account_n for_o himself_o unto_o god_n for_o the_o thing_n wherein_o he_o obey_v as_o the_o magistrate_n must_v for_o the_o thing_n which_o he_o command_v for_o the_o good_a and_o rightful_a obedience_n and_o command_v whereof_o he_o have_v appoint_v his_o holy_a word_n alone_o to_o be_v the_o only_a judge_n aswell_o unto_o the_o subject_n as_o unto_o the_o magistrate_n or_o else_o what_o soverainitie_n shall_v the_o 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whatsoever_o ought_v to_o stoop_v and_o give_v place_n unto_o that_o order_n and_o decency_n for_o the_o which_o testimony_n be_v to_o be_v find_v in_o holy_a writ_n that_o the_o same_o be_v please_v unto_o god_n and_o therefore_o we_o demand_v by_o what_o rule_n of_o holy_a writ_n your_o lordship_n can_v prove_v your_o late_a convocationall_a canon_n to_o have_v allowance_n from_o the_o spirit_n of_o christ_n when_o as_o by_o the_o same_o you_o have_v command_v a_o decency_n &_o order_n mere_o humane_a precise_o to_o be_v observe_v in_o the_o church_n instead_o of_o that_o decency_n &_o order_n which_o at_o the_o beginning_n be_v in_o the_o church_n &_o which_o being_n please_v unto_o god_n can_v not_o be_v but_o divine_a it_o have_v be_v in_o our_o judgment_n a_o fact_n not_o simple_o commendable_a if_o your_o lordship_n have_v but_o invent_v and_o add_v a_o humane_a decency_n and_o order_n unto_o that_o which_o have_v warrant_n from_o holy_a write_v to_o be_v divine_a but_o whole_o 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