the saluation of the faithfull And in his second booke against Cresconius the Grāmarian he saith That there is an Ecclesiasticall Canon ordained whereunto belong the bookes of the Prophets and Apostles By which bookes we iudge all other writings both of the faithful of the Infidels Hier. sup Agge cap. 1. Hierom sayth Those things which of their owne heads they deuise as though they came by Apostolike Tradition without the authority and testimony of the holy Scriptures the sword of Gods word striketh Infinite be the Authorities of the Fathers which might be brought to this purpose but I will conclude the point with Vincentius Lirinensis whome D.B.P. in his booke against M. Perkins Vincent aduer Haeres beleeueth not to haue any such wordes who saith The Canon of the Scripture is perfect and sufficient and more then sufficient to al things And again Not that saith he the Canon alone is not sufficient for all things These Fathers I hope knew the Scriptures aswell as D.B.P. or any other Papist and yet notwithstanding al his their obiections the Protestāts Achilles as he tearmeth it stands vnimpeacht by any thing that this or any other cauiller hath said And yet notwithstanding these euident places brought by the general consent of all the Fathers against the fundamētal Ground of Popery Your Rhemists wil tel you Rhem. Test 2. Thes 2. sect 18.19 if you wil beleeue them that they haue to the contrary plaine Scriptures all the fathers most euident reasons that wee must either beleeue Traditions or nothing at all And that S. Augustine often writeth That many of the articles of our Religion and points of highest importance are not so much to be prooued by Scriptures as by Tradition But if we aske them where S. Austine wrote this often and that of many articles of Religion and poynts of highest importance it must be returned with Non est inuentus Not to be found in S. Austin But they perceiuing the whole waight of their cause to lie in this Rhem. Test fol. 559. haue marshalled nine Fathers in a ranke to proue that we must either beleeue Traditions or nothing And yet the very same Fathers haue shewed That no matter of faith or of any moment to saluation must bee receiued or beleeued without the Scriptures Cypr. ad Pomp. cont epist Stepha Basil contr Eunomium lib. 3. and the Fathers often times by Traditions vnderstand matters contained proued out of the scriptures that in regard the same was deliuered also by word And many times by Traditiōs they vnderstād ceremonies and customs Now chuse whether you will grant a flat contradiction in the Fathers or reconcile them thus and conclude with vs Ergo the Traditions they meane be no parts or points of the Christian faith For we haue their plain confession That all things necessary to saluation are comprised in the scriptures you produce them to witnes That your Traditions be not comprised in the scriptures Ergo by your owne deponents wee conclude That your Traditions be neither necessary to saluation nor points of the Catholike faith Looke wel to this Issue They must either dissent frō you or from themselues Now if you will compare the late doctrine of the Romish Church with these Fathers it shal be euident That they haue not only dissented frō them but also vttered open blasphemy against the sacred Scriptures First Cardinal Cusanus intituleth his booke De authoritate ecclesiae Cōcilij supra contra scripturam Of the the authority of the Church Coūcel aboue against the scriptures Syluester Prierias master of the Popes palace Contr. Luther cōclusi de pot Papae saith That indulgences are warranted vnto vs not by the authority of the scripture but by the authority of the Church and Pope of Rome which is greater Boniface the Archbishop of Mentz saith That all men so reuerence the Apostolike See of Rome that they rather desire the ancient institution of Christian Religiō from the Pope than from the holy scripture This saying the Pope hath so approued that he hath caused it to be inserted into the Cannon lawe Dist 40. c. Si Papa Another saith whosoeuer resteth not on the doctrine of the Roman Church and B. of Rome Syluest Prier contr Luther as the infallible rule of God à qua sacra scriptura roburtrahit auctoritatem from which the sacred scripture draweth strength and authority he is an heretike Eckius saith De Ecclesia Scriptura nisi ecclesiae auctoritate non est authētica The scripture is not authētical but by the authority of the church Cardinal Hosius saith De expresso verbo Dei If any man haue the interpretation of the Church of Rome concerning any place of scripture although he neither knowe nor vnderstand whether and how it agreeth with the words of the scripture notwithstanding he hath ipsissimū verbū Dei the very word of God Cardinal Cusanus saith Nicol. Cusan ad Bohem epi. 7. It is no maruel though the practise of the Church expound the scriptures at one time one way and at an other time another way for the vnderstanding or sense of the scripture runneth with the practise And that sense agreeing with the practise is the quickening spirit Henric. doctor Magister sacripalatij Romae ad Legatos Bohemicos sub Felice Papa 1447. Ad Bohem. ep 2. and therefore the scriptures follow the Church but contrariwise the Church followeth not the scriptures Another saith The Pope may change the holy Gospel and may giue to the Gospel according to place and time another sense To conclude therfore with Cardinal Cusanus This is the iudgement saith he of all them that thinke rightly that foūd the authority vnderstanding of the Scriptures in the allowance of the Church and not contrariwise lay the foundation of the Church in the authority of the scriptures I will not mention others that haue blasphemously said Vid. Chemnit exa par 1. pag. 47. That the scriptures without the authority of the Church are no better than Aesops Fables Thus you see how the Grounds of our Religiō are iustified by the Fathers against these blasphemies of the Romish Church And for that I knowe it commonly obiected that we refuse in disputation conference to handle the groūds of Religion I haue thought good in this smal Tract to examin though briefly the Grounds of your Romish Religion dialogue-wise to the end the truth may be the more liuely discerned by the obiections and answers Wherein if I haue not truely laid downe the Groūds of your Religion for the substance therof Or that they haue either bin mistaken by me or that vsing that breuity I haue done they might be more strongly or effectually vrged on your side or that the reasons vrged on our behalfe be either falsly alleaged or not truly handled I shall take it as a speciall grace done vnto me an argumēt of
mens precepts So that as Saint Peter hath censured you 1. Pet. 2.18 Yee are not redeemed from the vaine Traditions of your Fathers Besides you chuse rather to make the Fathers to contradict themselues as I haue shewed in the preface of this treatise than to acknowledge with vs as the trueth is that the Traditions mentioned by the Fathers are no parts or points of the Catholike faith But doeth your Church practise all those Traditions which are deliuered by the Fathers to be either Diuine Apostolicall or Ecclesiasticall Papist Yes and although she did not yet is the Churches authority sufficient to abrogate or admit which she pleaseth Protestant 13 Indéede you take that libertie to your selues without all warrant either of Scripture or Fathers For S Hierome which is one of the Fathers alleaged by you for Traditions Dialo coÌ„tr Lucif ca. 4. deliuereth it as an Apostolike Tradition On the Lords day and throughout euery Penticost neither to pray on the knées nor to fast The temper of milke and honie giuen to them that were newly baptised Tertul. de Coro Milit. Nu. 3. is confirmed by Tertullian who likewise reckoneth vp a number of Rites grounded vpon Tradition As that the baptized should abstaine from washing a whole wéeke after Baptisme with much crossing at euery going out at euery steppe at euery comming in at putting on of apparel at putting on of shooes at washings at tables at lights at beddes at seates c. all these are deliuered as the Apostles Traditions which yet the Papists themselues obserue not And if these be not Apostolike Traditions what warrant haue we for any of the rest For as for the Churches authority in abolishing of these you may say as much of the holy Scriptures for you haue said before That Traditions vnwritten Conc. Trid. Sess 4. were of equall authoritie with the Scriptures But doe you thinke the authority of the ancient Fathers to be a sufficient ground to leade vs to accept of all the Doctrine deliuered by Tradition and that whatsoeuer is deliuered by them is to be receiued without exception Papist Yes the ioynt consent of the Fathers Sta. prine doctr li. 7. ca. 13. li. 1â— ca. 5. Hart. â— ag Ray. ca. â— diui â— is an absolute Rule being indeede the Churches exposition Protestant 14 Then must you wholly relinquish all your doctrine and Traditions vnwritten for all the Fathers doe with ioint consent yéelde all their authority to the Scriptures laying it for a Ground that nothing necessary to saluation is to be beléeued without the authoritie of the Scriptures nay that themselues are not to be credited without the scriptures as shal manifestly appeare by the testimonies of these Fathers following yea S. Augustine is so absolute for vs in most of his bookes * Aug Ep 19 ad Hiero Epi 48 Vincent Ep 111 Fortunatiano Epi 112 to Paulina Cont. FastuÌ„ li 11 c. 5. Contr. Cres gram li. 2 ca 11 32 De Bap coÌ„t Don li. 2. c. 2 De merit remiss peccat cont Pelag. lib 3 cap 7. De natur gra ca. 61 De gracia Christi coÌ„tra Pelag cap. â—â— De nuptijs concupisceÌ„t lib. 2 ca. 23. that he would haue the Church sought onely in the scriptures heretikes confuted onely by the scriptures To whose only authority in many places he professeth that he himselfe will be bound So that you must either make these Fathers contrary to themselues Or else grant that Traditions are not of absolute necessitie to be receiued But for that this is a maine point which the Papists insist on I will cleare the same euidently by foure iust exceptions which I referre to the indifferent censure of anie First I will prooue that the Fathers haue attributed all sufficiencie to the Scriptures and haue submitted all their authorities vnto them Secondly That the Fathers haue held diuers errors vpon which it necessarily followeth that if they might erre in one thing they might erre in another Thirdly that they are often reiected by the Papists yea euen the greater number sometimes contrary to their owne rule and therefore may with as great reasoÌ„ be reiected by vs. Fourthly That there are many counterfâ—its bearing the names of ancient Fathers and that often times they are alleaged by the Papists to abuse vs all which particular exceptions I will briefly prooue in order as they lie First Saint Basil saith Tract de fide it is a most certain argument of infidelity and a most certaine signe of pride if any man wil reiect any of those things that are written or bring in any thing that is not written when our Lord saith My sheepe heare my voice and a stranger they will not heare Tertullian saith De resurrect carnis Take away from Heretikes those things which they hold with Ethnikes that they may stay their questions vpon the Scriptures onely and they are not able to stand Saint Augustine saith De doctr Christ li. 2. ca. 9. All things that concerne faith and manners or beliefe and life are plainely written in the Scriptures Chrysostome saith In 2. ad Thessa Ho. 3 That euery thing is cleare and euident by the Scriptures and whatsoeuer things are necessary they are euident In Eusng Ioh. li. 12 cap. 68. Cyril saith That such of the things done by Christ are written as the writers thought to be sufficient for maners and doctrine Epist 11 inter epist August In the controuersie betwâ—xt S. Austin and S. Hierome touching Peters reproofe Hierome alleaged more Fathers on his side and made so great account of them that he desired Austin to suffer him to erre with such men if he thought him to erre Epist 19. To whom Saint Austin replied that peraduenture he might finde as many if he had read much But I saith he haue Paul the Apostle himselfe in stead of these all and aboue these all To him I doe flie to him doe I appeale from all the doctors his interpreters who are of other minds c. Epist 126 ad Euagrium S. Hierome yéelding his opinion to Euagrius a meane man after he had shewed the iudgements of Origen Didimus Hipollitus Irenaeus Eusebius Cesariensis Emisenus Apollinarius and Eustathius saith To bring foorth the witnesses it was my part let it bée yours to iudge of the credit of the witnesses Orig. Hom 1 super Ieâ—em Origen confesseth That their iudgements without witnesse of the Scriptures were of no credit Hierom. in Psal 98. Hierome writeth That all which they spake they were to proue by the Scriptures Hier. in Maâ— 23. and saith in another place That which hath not authority from the Scriptures as easily is despised as approued Saint Basil saith Basil in Ethicis defiâ— 8. If euery thing that is not of faith be sinne as S. Paul affirmeth and faith come by hearing and hearing â—y the word of God Ergo whatsoeuer is without or besides the Diuine
sée it the Sepulchâ—e opened for his sake and the body assumpteâ— into heauen he saith not one word of these conceits Nay he rather saith against them for he noteth namely That Iames was also present the brother of the Lord and Peter the chiefest and ancientest top of the Apostles And it is not likely he would haue noted two if they had beene all present here is no lesse than seuen lies in lesse than sixe liues Now let vs sée how Damascen your Portesse agréeth For DamasceÌ„ saith The Angels sung almost thrée dayes The Portesse thrée whole dayes Damascen saith The rest of the Apostles would shew to one of them who was absent the bodie The Portesse saith Thomas who was absent would worship the bodie Now what thée Damascen was let your owne doctors tell you who except against him for his tale of Gregory the Pope â—anus locoâ—m Theol 〈◊〉 11. â— Hessels â—nsure de â—stor sanct â— 3. â—erm de funct in 〈◊〉 and Traiane the Emperour Thus Damascen reporteth That Gregorie while he went ouer the market place of Traian did pray for Traians soule to God and behold a voice from heauen I haue heard thy prayer and I pardon Traian but see thou pray no more to me for the wicked These be good places to prooue prayer for the dead and yet it is against popish doctrine that prayer can deliuer any out of hell And if he had béen in Purgatory the Pope could haue dispatched that of himselfe without praying The next is Athan in Euang. de deipara who speaks not one word of your miraculous fault And yet is the same Athanasius reiected for a bastard in your owne edition In edit Petr. Nannij Louan praefat ad episcop Atiebat The last is fiue sermons of S. Barnards in all which likewise there is not one worde of that miracle So that vnlesse they were disposed to lie for the whetstone it is to be wondred how they dare thus abuse their Readers both with the names of counterfeit Fathers and false forgeries If I should collect all such like stuffe it would growe greater than this smal Tract But let the Christian Reader iudge of the rest as hee prooues these to be truly brought against them And if any desire further proofe of the Rhemists sincerity in alleaging Fathers let him obserue these places viz. The constitutions of Clement Luk. 4. Sect. 1. Ignatius Matt. 4. Sect. 2. 1. Peter 2. Sect. 6 Dionysius Areopag Act. 8. Sect. 6. Hypolitus Mat. 24. Sect. 5. Policarpus Act. 6. Sect. 1. Miltiadi Fabian Act. 8. Sect. 6. S. Andrew S. Martiall Hebr. 10. Sect. 11. The Masses of S. Iames Basil and Chrysostome 1. Cor. 11. Sect. 10. Clicton for Ciuil Ioh. 11. Sect. 1. and Paulinus Ioh. 9. Sect. 2. All these are counterfeit Fathers and vrged by the Papists vnder the names of true Fathers to countenance their corrupt doctrine And therefore no maruell if popish leaders instruct their followers to get vs into the plaine field of their Motiues out of our weake and false castell of onely Scripture as Bristowe the Licentiate tearmeth it Brist Motiu 48. And it is no maruell that they haue such store of the Fathers and that our new masters as they tearme vs cannot compare with these Fathers in the doctrines they deliuer when they bring vs onely the names of fathers I could giue instance likewise how the Fathers are often contrary one to another yea contrary to themselues Thus I hope it is plainly prooued by these foure iust exceptions that the Fathers iudgements are no infallible rule for a man to build his faith on though it be imbellisht with the churches exposition And yet wee reuerence and honor them as men that haue brought great light to the vnderstanding of the Scriptures But what doâ— you vnderstand by intituling the ancient Fathers with the name of the church Papist I meane Harâ—â—g Rai that the ioint consent of the Fathers in all doctrines deliuered by them is the doctrine of the Church Protestant 15 What doe you meane by the ioint consent of the Fathers Papist I mean by the ioint consent of the Fathers that which all or the most part of them doe deliuer for trueth wherin if there be any difference the greater number is to be followed for a fewe may bee deceiued more easily than many Protestant 16 This rule séemes to be very vncertaine for you knowe that king Ahab was deceiued by the consent of false prophets 2. Chron. 1â— 5 11. euen 400. against Micaiah yea when the Fathers in the great Councel of Nice were about to decrée that Bishops Priests DeacoÌ„s should not vse their wiues Paphnutius alone Sozom. li. 1. cap. 2â— rose vp in the midst of their Councell and fréely contradicted it and preuailed Besides in the third Exception before it is plainely shewed that the greater number of Fathers are by your selues reiected in the diuision of the coÌ„mandements and in the controuersie betwéene S. Austine and Hierom touching Peters reproofe par 1. wherein your selues grant Torrensis confes Aug. lib. 2. cap. 1. tim â— that Austin iudged more soundly What is therefore then to be done that a certaine and sure ground may bee found out Papist Then a better and more sure way is that which by the faithfull Pastors of the Church is decreed in a generall Councell which cannot erre Protestant 17 Indéed I must confesse it is a sure way to build our faith vpon those Councels which cannot erre But how shal we be assured that they cannot erre Papist We are assured by the Scriptures That the Church cannot erre as is euident by these places following Mat. 18.20 Our Sauiour Christ saith That when two or three are gathered together in his name that he will be in the midst And Ioh. 16 13. he promiseth to send vnto his Church the holy Ghost which shall leade them into all trueth 1. Tim. 3. And S. Paul calles it the Pillar and ground of trueth Vpon which places and many other which for breuity I omit wee conclude that the Church cannot erre which to speake as the Schoolemen doe we call the Church representatiue because the whole Church is there represented in a gerall Councell Protestant 18 Take héede what you doe Will you bring the Church contrary to the iudgement of many learned Papists mentioned in the preface of this booke to take her authority from the Scriptures and to be tried by them whether it may erre If you doe it will be the vtter ruine and destruction of your Religion for the Scriptures will conuince the Councel of Constance of error in taking away the cup from the Laitie contrary to S. Pauls expresse commandement saying 1. Cor. 11. Let a man examine himselfe and so let him eate of this bread and drinke of this cup. And contrary to the Institution and commaundement of Christ himselfe saying Drinke you all of this Mat. 26.27
same opinion with vs. Panormitane the best of your Canonists yea a reuerend Archbishop and a renowmed Cardinall saith A Councel may erre as otherwise a Councel hath erred about mariage to be contracted betwéene the Rauisher the Rauished and the saying of Hierome as being of the sounder opinion was after preferred before the Statute of the Councel And the argument which Papists make That the church should faile in faith if Councels should erre he reiecteth as friuolous saying Panor ibid. It hindereth vs little if it be said that a Councel cannot erre because Christ prayed for his Church that it should not faile For though a generall Councell represent the whole vniuersall Church yet to speake trueth the vniuersall Church is not there precisely but by representation because the vniuersall Church consisteth of all the faithfull And this is the Church which cannot erre c. Pighius Hieraâ— eccl li. 6. ca. 4. 5. Pighius saith it is certaine that Councels are not the vniuersall Church In none of all the generall Councels shall you find the fathers to haue arrogated thus much to themselues as to say they represented the Catholike Church besides these two last Councels of Constance and Basil which we now impugne And that General Councels may erre he sayth Li. 6. ca. 13. It is certaine that not onely these Councels of Constance and Basil which we now disproue haue shamefully absurdly erred but also many others And againe We find that General Councels euen of holy Fathers haue erred in decrees of faith for example of General Councels The Councell of Ariminum vniuersall no doubt and also the second Councel of Ephesus and that likewise vniuersall These I say are witnesses That euen general Councels and those lawfully gathered may erre The Bishops that were present at Ephesus commplained after in the Councell of Chalcedon Chalced. Conc. Act. 1. that they were threatned and forced Now if Bishops may be forced they may likewise bee circumuented as they were in the Councel of Ariminum or deceiued in opinion as they were in the Councels of Carthage Constance and Basill by the confession of learned Papistes themselues And if they may by all these wayes bee peruerted when they are assembled Ergo they may make both an erronious an iniurious conclusion Wherefore since it appeares euidently by this little that hath béene sayd That Generall Councels are no infallible rule to build our faith on What must wee then doe to finde out a sure Ground whereupon to ground our Religion Papist The last and onely meanes without all exception is the Pope whose faith cannot faile neither can he erre iudicially So that whether with the Councels or without the Councels That which he determineth and teacheth is a certaine trueth That which hee condemneth is a manifest Error Protestant 19 This aunswere doeth manifest to all that are not wilfully blinde that what brags soeuer you make of Fathers and Councels who as Campian boasted in his tenne Reasons were al as sure on your side as Pope Gregory the thirtéenth that yet yet the Pope is the man vpon whom you ground your Religion neither estéeming Fathers Councels or the learned of your owne side further than they may stand and concurre with the Popes good pleasure which by this little Tract may euidently be deduced For first you ground your Religion on the Word the Word on the Fathers the Fathers on Councels and the Councels on the Pope So that in all the controuersies betwéene vs and you we must stand to the censure of your Pope who must be both Iudge and partie And if he giue iudgement on our side I will neuer trust him But to ouerthrowe this pillar of Popery thorowly I will prooue that the Pope hath erred iudicially â—hâ— Test â—uk 22. â—ect 11. For albeit they confesse that the Pope may be an Heretike yea that Liberius the Pope might yéeld in persecution Marcellinus the Pope for feare might commit idolatrie Honorius the Pope might fal to heresie and more than all this that some Iudas might créepe into the office as their Rhemists confesse yet they distinguish betwéene the person and the office And as their last shift and refuge hauing béen driuen by force of reason and examples to acknowledge thus much They now insist vpon this last anchor as their last hope to auoide shipwracke That the Pope cannot erre iudicially that is in their Consistories Courts Councels decrées deliberations or consultations kept for decision and determination of such controuersies doubts or Questions of faith as shall be proposed to them Now what wrangling and shifting is this to aske for the place where and the time when the Pope decréed for error For if he may erre at home he may likewise erre abroad If the Pope be an Heretike in his chamber hee cannot bee a Catholike in his Consistorie And if the Pope may beléeue defend and preach an error what néede we care whether his sentence be conclusiue or perswasiue definitiue or interlocutorie And if you thinke that this idle distinction can frée your Pope from his errors because thy haue not been definitiuely pronounced in their publike Consistories wee could name infinite Bishops and churches that haue not erred in this precise maner For how can you prooue that euer the Bishops of Yorke or Durham in England of Poycters or Lions in France of Valeria or Corduba in Spaine of Rauenna or Rhegium in Italy of Corinth or Athens in Greece of Miletus or Sardis in Asia gaue definitiue sentence against the faith in their publike Consistories Infinite others might be obiected against whom it could neuer bee proued that they haue erred in this kind and therfore this cannot but be a strong Bulwark wheron you depend boast That it cannot be prooued that the Bishop of Rome hath erred iudicially or definitiuely For if Popes haue erred in writing and teaching they were as right Heretikes as euer were Arrius Sabellius Nestorius Eutiches and such like which neuer gaue Definitiue sentence against the faith in Courts and Consistories but onely taught or wrote against the trueth But this new Popery was not then nor many yéeres after found out though the quaint Iesuits haue of late refined their late Poperie to giue a colour to the Popes priuiledge And albeit this were sufficient yet will I briefly procéede and prooue that the Pope hath erred Definitiuely or Iudicially as his Decretals which are Definitiue sentences shall euidently prooue In Chronic. Supputat Romanor poÌ„t de Reg. â—tal li. 6. First Sigebert Martinus Polonus and Sigonius doe witnesse that Pope Stephen the 6. decréed in a Councel That they who were ordained Bishops by Pope Formosus were not ordained lawfully because the man was wicked by whome they were ordained And hee did not onely depriue and vnordaine them who were ordeined by Formosus but he decréed too as Sigebert noteth Ordinationes eius omnes irritaâ— esse debere decernit That all