more openly then this author does For he plainly confesses that his Catholick Gentleman went quite besides his business that he built upon indefensible principles that his theological ratiocination was indeed pretty but too weak to hold And are not we hugely too blame if we do not cry up such mighty Conquerors as these are Truly Sir I expect the very same answer should be returned to your book that Mr. S's argument is a pretty theological ratiocination and that your answer is not unwitty but though that way will not hold another will Thus when they are beaten off Infallibility they run to Tradition and when they are again beaten off Tradition then back again to Infallibility So that the short of all their answers is though such a one cannot defend our faith yet I can though I cannot yet the faiââs firm and constant still I wonder what their Superiors think of this âay of proceeding among them we âhould imagine if they be so weak âs they say themselves they had much âetter keep them from appearing âbroad and exposing their cause so âidiculously to contempt But it may âe they think their faith is the betâer as well as their devotion for their âgnorance and that it would be a âighty disparagement to their cause âor such silly people to be able to deâend it It is enough for them to âdmire it themselves and to say as âheir common people use to do though âhey cannot defend it yet there are âome that can And although it âay be no particular person can do â yet their cause is able to defend â self But for all that I can see by âck kind of answers the intention of âhem is to intreat us not to triâmph over the weakness of their preânt Writers but to wait till the âause it self thinks fit to write And when it doth so they may expect further answer but it were a greaâ piece of cruelty for us to hasten theâ ruine who fall so fast before us bâ each others Pens FINIS ERRATA Page 16. l. 16. for that r. than p. 2â l. 8. for errors r. concerns Books Printed for and Sold by Henry Mortlock at the Sign of the Phoenix in St. Pauls Church-yard near the little North door A Rational Account of the ârounds of Protestant Religion being a Vindication of the Lord-Achbishop of Canterburyes Relation of a Conference c. from the pretended Answer by T. C. wherein the true Grounds of Faith are cleared and the false discovered the Church of England justified from the imputation of Schism and the most Important particular Controversies between us and those of the Church of Rome thoughly Examined by Edward Stillingfleeâ B. D. Origines Sacrae or a Rational Account of the Grounds of Christian Faith as to the Truth and Divine Authority of the Scriptures and the matters therein contained by the sam Author The third Edition Correcteâ and Amended Irenicum A Weapon-Salve for the Churches Wounds by the same Author Shecinah A Demonstration of the Divine Presence in Places of Religious Worship by J. Stillingfleet Rector of Beckingham in Lincolnshire The Moral Philosophy of the Stoicks Bain upon the Ephesians Knowledge and Practice or a plain Discourse of the chief things necessary to be known believed and practised in order to salvation by Saâ Cradock B. D. The second Edition Corrected and Enlarged c. The Believers Duty towards the Spirit the Sprits Office towards Believers by H. H. B. D. §. 1. p. 236. p. 202. §. 2. p. 203. P. 204. § 3. §. 4. P. 205. §. 1. 5. §. 6. p. 203. §. 7. §. 8. p. 05. p. 206. P. 207. §. 9. p. 208. §. 10. De fide Thâol tract 2 sect 22. p. 158. Ibid. P. 209. Tabul suffrag p. 318. §. 11. p. 210. §. 12. p. 211. p. 212. p. 213. p. 214. §. 13. p. 216. §. 14. p. 236. p. 217. p. 218. p. 223. §. 15. p. 224. Part. 1. chap. â §. 16. â 229. c. p. 231. p. 234. p. 235. p. 236. P. 237. §. 17. p. 238. p. 239. §. 18. p 240. p. 241. p. 242. p. 243. §. 19. p. 244. p. 210. p. 2â9
of the opinion of their own Writers or notoriously dissembled it For this infallibility is not attributed to the Rulers of the Church meerly as Doctors or Scholars but as the representative Church whose office it is to deliver all matters of faith by way of an infallible testimony to every age and thereby to afford a sufficient foundation for divine faith But Mr. S. attributes no such infallibility to the representative Church as teaching the rest but derives their infallibility from such grounds as are common to all parts of the essential Church Wherein he apparently opposes himself to the whole current of their own authors whe resolve all faith into the immediate assistance of the Holy Ghost without which they assert there could be no infallibility at all in tradition or any thing else and therefore these opinions are as opposite to each other as may be For such an infallibility is not attributed by them to the teachers of the Church meerly on some signal occasions as Mr. S. seems to suppose when they are to explain new matters of faith but it is made by them to be as necessary as believing it self because thereby the only sure foundation of faith is laid and therefore it is very evident they make it proper to the Church in all ages Or else in some age of the Church men were destitute of sufficient grounds of faith For they by no means think it a sufficient foundation for faith that one age of the Church could not conspire to deceive another for this they will tell him at most is but a humane faith but that Christ by his promise hath assured the Church that there shall never be wanting in it the infallible assistance of his Holy Spirit whereby they shall infallibly teach deliver all matters of faith And if this be not their opinion let them speak to the contrary which if they do I am sure they must retract their most elaborate discourses about the resolution of faith written by the greatest Artists among them Let Mr. S. then judge who it is that stumbles at the Threshold but of this difference among them more afterwards By this it appears it was not on any mistake that I remained unsatisfied in the Question I asked Whether am I bound to believe what the present Church delivers to be Infallible to which Mr. S. answers I understand him not My reply shall be only that of a great Lawyers in a like case I cannot help that I am sure my words are intelligible enough for I take infallible there as he takes it himself for infallibly true although I deny not the word to be improperly used in reference to things and that for the reason given by him because fallibility and infallibility belong to the knowing power or the persons that have it and not to the object But we are often put to the use of that word in a sense we acknowledge improper meerly in complyance with our Adversaries who otherwise are apt to charge us with having only uncertainties and probabilities for our faith if we do not use the term infallible as applyed to the truth of the thing I am content therefore wherever in what I have writ he meets that term so applyed that he take it only in his own sense for that which is certainly true for I mean no more by it And in this sense Mr. S. answers affirmatively and gives this account of it not only because the present Church cannot be deceived in what the Church of the former Age believed but because the Church in no age could conspire against her knowledge to deceive that age immediately following in matter of fact evident in a manner to the whole world The Question then is whether this be a sufficient account for me to believe that to be certainly true or to be the doctrine of Christ and his Apostles which the present Church delivers and consequently whether the resolution of faith be barely into oral tradition Thus we see the clear state of the Question between us I come therefore to the vindication of those things which I had objected against this way of resolving faith into oral tradition Three things I especially insisted on 1. That it is inconsistent with the pretensions of the present Roman Church 2. That it hath not been the way owned in all ages of the Christian Church 3. That it is repugnant to common sense and experience and that the Church of Rome hath apparently altered from what was the belief of former ages If these three be made good there will be no cause to glory in this last invention to support the sinking fabrick of that Church These three then I undertake to defend against what Mr. Serjeant hath objected against them 1. That it is contrary to the pretensions of the present Roman Church And if it be so there can be no reason for those who are of it to rely upon it For if so be that Church pretends that the obligation to faith arises from a quite different ground from this how can they who believe that Church infallible venture their faith upon any other principle than what is publikly owned by her And whosoever thinks himself bound to believe by virtue of an infallible assistance of the present Church doth thereby shew that his obligation doth not depend upon what was delivered by the former ages of the Church As those who believed the Apostles were infallible in their doctrine could not resolve their faith into the infallibility of oral tradition but into that immediate assistance by which the Apostles spake and where there is a belief of a like assistance the foundation of faith cannot lie in the indefectibility of tradition but in that infallible Spirit which they suppose the Church to be assisted by For supposing this oral tradition should fail and that men might believe that it had actually failed yet if the former supposition were true there was sufficient ground for faith remaining still And what assurance can any one have that the present Church delivers nothing for matter of faith but what hath been derived in every age from Christ and his Apostles if such an infallible spirit be supposed in the present Church which was in the Apostles themselves For on the same reason that those who heard the Apostles were not bound to trouble themselves with the tradition of the former age no more ought they who believe the present Roman Church to have the same infallible assistance They need not then enquire whether this age knew the meaning of the former or whether one age could conspire to deceive another or whether notwithstanding both these errours might not come into the Church it is sufficient for them that the definitions of the present Church are infallible in all matters of faith Therefore my demand was built on very good reason How can you assure me the present Church obliges me to believe nothing but only what and so far as it
received from the former Church And Mr. S's answer is far from being satisfactory That this appears by her manifect practice never refusing communion to any man that could approve himself to believe all the former Age did For this may be resolved into a principle far different from this which is the belief of the infallibility of the present Church For supposing that they are not bound to enquire themselves into the reasons why the tradition could not faile in any age it is sufficient for them to believe the Church infallible and if it be so in proposing matters of faith it must be so in declaring what the belief of the former age was But my demands go on What evidence can you bring to convince me both that the Church alwayes observed this rule and could never be deceived in it Which question is built on these two Principles which the infallibility of oral tradition stands on 1. That the Church must alwayes go upon this ground 2. That if it did so it is impossible she should be deceived Both which are so far from that self-evidence which Mr. Serjeant still pretends to in this way that the Jesuits principles seem much more rational and consistent than these do For granting them but that one Postulatum that there must be an inherent infallibility in the testimony of the present Church to afford sufficient foundation for divine faith all the rest of their doctrine follows naturally from it Whereas this new way of resolving faith is built on such suppositions which no man well in his wits will be ready to grant For unless it be self-evident that the Church did alwayes proceed on this ground it cannot be self-evident that oral tradition is infallible because the self-evidence of this principle depends on this that in all ages of the Church the only rule and measure of faith was what was delivered by oral tradition from the age foregoing Now if it be possible that matters of faith might be conveyed in wayes quite different from this what self-evidence can there be that the Church must alwayes proceed upon this Mr. S. then must demonstrate it impossible for matters of faith to be conveyed to posterity in any other way than oral tradition and not only that the thing is impossible but that the Church in all ages judged it to be so or else he can never make it at all evident that the Church alwayes made this her rule of faith But if either there may be a certain conveyance of the doctrine of faith another way viz. by writing or that the Church might judge that way more certain whether it were so or not either way it will appear far enough from self-evidence that she alwayes judged of doctrines of faith meerly by the tradition of the preceding age If another way be granted possible there must be clear demonstration that the Church notwithstanding this did never make use of it for if it did make use of another way of resolving faith in any age of the Church then in that age of the Church oral tradition was not looked on as the ground of faith and if so notwithstanding what ever Mr. S. can demonstrate to the contrary that age might have believed otherwise that the immediately preceding did For let us but suppose thaâ all necessary doctrines of faith were betimes recorded in the Church in books universally received by the Christians of the first ages is it noâ possible that age which first embraceâ these books might deliver them to posterity as the rule of their faith and so down from one age to another and doth it not hence follow that the rule of saith is quite different from â meer oral tradition Let Mr. S. theâ either shew it impossible that the doctrines of faith should be written or that being written they should be universally received or that being universally received in one age they âhould not be delivered to the next âr being delivered to the next those âooks should not be looked on as conâaining the rule of faith in them or âhough they were so yet that still oral âadition was wholly relyed on as the âule of faith then I shall freely grant ââat Mr. S. hath attempted something ââwards the proof of this new hypotheâ But as things now stand it is so far âom being self-evident that the Church âath alwayes gone upon this princiâe that we find it looked on as a great âovelty among them in their own âhurch and it would be a rare thing âr a new invention to have been the ânse of the Church in all ages which it hath not been the strength of it is âereby taken away But let us suppose that the Church âd proceed upon this principle that âthing was to be embraced but what ãâã derived by tradition from the Aâtles how doth it thence follow that nothing could be admitted into thâ Church but what was really so deriveâ from them Do we not see in thâ world at this day that among thoâ who own this principle contradictoâ propositions are believed and boâ sides tell us it is on this account bâ cause their doctrine was delivered â the Apostles doth not the Greek Churâ profess to believe on the account tradition from the Apostles as well the Latin If that tradition failed the Greek Church which was preservâ in the Latin either Mr. S. must iâstance on his own principles in thâ Age which conspired to deceive tâ next or he must acknowledge tâ while men own tradition they may deceived in what the foregoing â taught them and consequently thâ things may be admitted as doctriâ coming from the Apostles which Wâ not so and some which did may lost and yet the pretence of traditâ remain still What self-evidence tâ can there be in this principle wâ two parts of the Church may bâ own it and yet believe contradictiâ on the account of it It is then woâ our enquiring what self-evidence this is which Mr. S. speaks so much of which is neither more nor less but that men in all ages had eyes ears and other âenses also common reason and as much memory as to remember their own names and frequently inculcated actions Which âs so very reâsonable a postulatum that suppose none who enjoy any of these will deny it Let us therefore see how âhe proceeds upon it If you disprove âhis I doubt we have lost mankind the âbject we speak of and till you disprove ât neither I nor any man in his wits can doubt that this rule depending on testifyâng that is sense on experience can possibly âermit men to be deceivable Big words inâeed but such as evidence that all men who are in their wits do not constantly ãâã them For I pray Sir what doth Mr. S. think of the Greek Church âad not those in it eyes ears and other ââses as well as in the Latin Do not they pretond and appeal to what they âeceived from their Fore-fathers as well âs
what was delivered but under what notion it was delivered whether as an allowable opinion or a necessary point of faith But if several persons nay multitudes in the Church may have different notions as to the necessity of the same points by what means shall we discern what was delivered as an opinion in the Church and what as an article of faith But Mr. S. throughout his discourse takes it for granted that there is the same necessity of believing and delivering all things which concern the Christian doctrine and still supposes the same sacredness concern necessity in delivering all the points in controversie between the Romanists and Us as there was in those main articles of faith which they and we are agreed in Which is so extravagant a supposition that it is hard to conceive it should ever enter into the head of a person pretending to reason but as extravagant as it is it is that without which his whole fabrick falls to the ground For suppose we should grant him that the infinite errors which depend on the belief of the Christian doctrine should be of so prevalent nature with the world that it is impossible to conceive any one age should neglect the knowing them or conspire to deceive the next age about them yet what is all this to the matters in difference between us Will Mr. S. prove the same sacredness necessity concern and miraculously attestedness as he phrases it in the Invocation of Saints Purgatory Transubstantiation Supremacy c. as in the believing the death and resurrection of the Son of God if he doth not prove this he doth nothing for his arguments may hold for doctrines judged universally necessary but for no other Therefore Mr. S. hath a new task which he thought not of which is to manifest that these could not be looked on as opinions but were embraced as necessary articles of faith For unless he proves them such he can neither prove any obligation in Parents to teach them their Children nor in Children to believe what their Parents taught but only to hold them in the same degree which they did themselves When Mr. S. will undertake to prove that the whole Church from the time of Christ did agree in the points in difference between us as necessary articles of faith I may more easily believe that no age could be ignorant of them or offer to deceive the next about them But when Mr. S. reflects on his frequent concession that there are private opinions in the Church distinct from matters of faith he must remember before he can bring home his grounds to the case between their Church and ours that he must prove none of the things in debate were ever entertained as private opinions and that it is impossible for that which was a private opinion in one age to become a matter of faith in the next But because this distinction of his ruines his whole demonstration I shall âirst propound it in his own terms and âhen shew how from thence it follows âhat errors may come into the Church and be entertained as matters of faith His words are it being evident that we have but two wayes of ordinary knowâedge by acts of our soul or operations ân our body that is by reason and expeâience the former of which belongs to âpeculators or Doctors the second to Deâiverers of what was received or Testiâiers And this distinction he frequentây admits not only in the present age of the Church but in any for the same reason will hold in all From âence I propose several Queries further to Mr. S. 1. If every one in the Churchâooked âooked on himself as bound to believe âust as the precedent age did whence came any to have particular opinions of their own For either the Churchâad âad delivered her sense in that case or not if not then tradition is no certain conveyer of the doctrine of Christ âf she had then those who vented private speculations were hereticks in so doing because they opposed that doctrine which the Church received from Christ and his Apostles If Mr. S. replieâ that private speculations are in such caseâ where there is no matter of faith at all he can never be able to help himselâ by that distinction in the case of hiâ own Church for I demand whether iâ it a matter of faith that men ought to believe oral tradition infallible iâ not how can men ground their faith upon it If it be then either some are meer speculators in matters of faith or all who believe on the account oâ the Popes infallibility are hereticks for so doing 2. If there were speculators in former ages as well as this whether did those men believe their own speculations or no if not then the Fatherâ were great Impostors who vented those speculations in the Church which they did not believe themselves And it iâ plain Mr. S. speaks of such opinions which the asserters of do firmly believe to be true and if they did then they look on themselves as bound to believe something which was not founded on the tradition of the Church and consequently did not own oral tradition as the rule of faith So that as many speculators as we find in the Church so many testifiers we have against the inâlibility of oral tradition 3. Whether those persons who did themselves believe those opinions to be true did not think themselves obliged to tell others they ought to believe them and consequently to deliver these as matters of faith to their children Let Mr. S. shew me any inconsequence in this but that it unavoidably follows upon his principles that they were bound to teach their Children what themselves received as the doctrine of Christ and that the obligation is in all respects equal as if they had believed these things on the account of oral tradition 4 If Children be obliged to believe what their Parents teach them for matters of faith then upon Mr. S's own concessions is not posterity bound to believe something which originally came not from Christ or his Apostles For it appears in this case that the first rise was from a private opinion of some Doctors of the Church but they believing these opinions themselves think themselves obliged to propagate them to others and by reason of their learning and authority these opinions may by degrees gain a general acceptance in the ruling part of the Churââ and all who believe them true tââââ they ought to teach them their ââââdren and Children they are to believe what their Parents teach them Thus from Mr. S's own principles things that never were delivered by Christ or his Apostles may come to be received as matters of faith in the present Church Thus the intelligent Reader needs no bodies help but Mr. S. to let him understand how Invocation of Saints Purgatory Transubstantiation c. though never delivered either by Christ or his Apostles may yet now be looked on as articles of saith and yet
no age of the Church conspire to deceive another Either then Mr. S. must say there never were any private opinators or speculators in the Church as distinct from testifiers and then he unavoidably contradicts himself or he must deny that posterity is bound to believe what their fore-fathers delivered them as matters of faith which destroyes the force of his whole demonstration Perhaps he will answer that Children are not bound to believe what barely their Parents or aâother number of persons might deliver matters of faith but what the whole âhurch of every age delivers This âough the only thing to be said in âe case yet is most unreasonable beââuse it runs men upon inextricable difâculties in the way of their resolving âith For suppose any Children âught by their Parents what they are â believe Mr. S. must say they are âot bound to believe them presently âut to enquire whether they agree âith the whole Church of that Ageârst ârst before they can be obliged to asânt Which being an impossible task âther for Children or men of age â find out in the way of oral tradiâon this way of resolving faith âoth but offer a fairer pretence for âfidelity For we see how impossiâle it is for Mr. S. to make it appear âhat their Church is agreed about the âule of faith for by his own confession âhe far greater number as speculatorsâppose âppose the way asserted by him how âuch more difficult then must it needs âe to find out what the sense of the whole essential Church is in all matters which Parents may teach their Children for doctrines of faith So that if Chrildren are not bound to believe what their Parents teach them till they know they teach nothing but what the whole Church teaches it is the most compendious way to teach them they are not bound to believe at all But if this distinction be admitted as Mr. S. makes much use of it then it appears how errors may come into the Church at sirst under the notion of speculations and by degrees to be delivered as points of faith by which means those things may be received in the Church for such which were never delivered by Christ or his Apostles and yet no age conspire to deceive the next which was the thing to be shewed This is one way of shewing how errors may come into the Church without one ages conspiring to deceive the next but besides this there are several others I might insist upon but I shall mention only two more 1. Misinterpreting the sence of Scripure 2. Supposing it in the power oâ some part of the Church to oblige the whole in matters of faith For the first we are to consider that no imaginable account can be given either of the writing or universal reception of the books of the New Testament if they were not designed for the preservation of the doctrine of Christ. And âlthough it should be granted possible âor the main and fundamental articles of Christian faith such as the Apostles Creed gives a summary account of âo have been preserved by the help of âradition yet unless we be extreamây ungrateful we cannot but acknowledge that God hath infinitely âetter provided for us in not leaving âhe grounds of our Religion to the âeer breath of the people or the care âf mothers instructing their Children âut hath given us the certain records âfall the doctrines and motives of faith âreserved inviolably from the first ages âf the Church And when the Churchâw âw with what care God had provided âr the means of faith traditionâas âas little minded thence the memory âf those other things not recorded in âcripture is wholly lost all the care âas imployed in searching preserving and delivering these sacred books tâ posterity To these the primitivâ Church still appeals these they pleaâ for against all adversaries defendinâ their authority explaining their sense vindicating them from all corruptionâ Tradition they rely not on any fuâther then as a Testimony of the trutâ of these records or to clear the senâ of them from the perverse interprâ tation of those Hereticks who pretenâ ed another kind of tradition thâ what was in Scripture And when theâ were silenced all the disputes thâ arose in the Church concerning matteâ of faith was about the sense of the books as is evident by the proceeâings in the case of Arius and Pelagiâ Wherein Tradition was only used a means to clear the sense of the Sâptures but not at all as that which tâ faith of all was to be resolved intâ But when any thing was pleaded frâ tradition for which there was ground in Scripture it was reject with the same ease it was offered aâ such persons were plainly told tâ was not the Churches way if they bâ plain Scripture with the concurrâ sense of Antiquity they might produce ât and rely upon it So that the whole âse of Tradition in the primitive Church besides attesting the books was to shew the unreasonableness of âmposing senses on Scripture against the universal sense of the Church from the Apostles times But as long as men were men it was not avoidable but they must fall into different apprehensions of the meaning of the Scripture according to their different judgements prejudices learning and education And since they had all this apprehension that the Scripture contained all doctrines of faith thence as men judged of the sense of it they differed in their apprehension concerning matters of faith And thence errors and mistakes might easily come into the Church without one age conspiring to deceive the next Nay if it be possible for men to rely on tradition without Scripture this may easily be done for by that means they make a new rule of faith not known to the primitive Church and consequently that very assertion is an error in which the former age did not conspire to deceive the next And if these things be possible M. S's demonstration fails him for hereby a reasonable account is given how errors may come into a Church without one age conspiring to deceive another Again let me enquire of Mr. S. whether men may not believe it in the power of the ruling part of the Church to oblige the whole to an assent to the definitions of it To speak plainer is it not possible for men to believe the Pope and Council infallible in their decrees And I hope the Jesuits as little as Mr. S. loves them or they him may be a sufficient evidence of more than the bare possibility of this If they may believe this doth it not necessarily follow that they are bound to believe whatever they declare to be matter of faith supposing then that Transubstantiation Supremacy Invocation of Saints were but private opinions before but are now defined by Pope and Council these men cannot but look on themselves as much obliged to believe them as if they had been delivered as matters of faith in every age since the Apostles times Is it
is a novel fancy of some few half-Catholicks in England and tends to subvert the Roman Church But is the present Pope with Mr. S. a private opinator or was the last a meer schoolman I am sure what ever Mr. S. thinks of him he thought not so of himself when he said he was no Divine in the controversie of Jansenius Doth the Court of Rome signifie no more with Mr. S. then a company of scholastick Pedants that know not what the sense of the Church is concerning the rule of faith I meddle not with the Schools but with the authority of the present Church and him whom Mr. S. owns for the head of it and is it consistent with his headship to condemn that doctrine which contains in it the only certain rule of faith Mr. S. may then see they were no such impertinent Topicks which I insisted on and as stout as Mr. S. seems to be I am apt to believe he would not look on the censure of the Inquisition as an impertinent Topick But at last Mr. S. offers at something whereby he would satisfie me of the sense of the Church as to this particular and therefore asks whether I never heard of such a thing as the Council of Trent I must ingenuously confess I have and seen more a great deal of it then I am satisfied with But what of that there he tells me I may find a clear solution of my doubt by the constant procedure of that most grave Synod in its definitions That is I hope to find that oral Tradition was acknowledged there as the only self-evident rule of faith if I do this I confess my self satisfied in this enquiry But how much to the contrary is there very obvious in the proceedings of it For in the 4. Session the Decree is That Scripture and tradition should be embraced with equal piety and reverence and the reason is because the doctrine of faith is contained partly in Scripture partly in tradition but what arts must Mr. S. use to inferr from hence that oral tradition in contradistinction to Scripture was looked on as the only rule of faith I cannot but say that the ruling men of that Council were men wise enough in their Generation and they were too wise wholly to exclude Scripture but because they knew that of it self could not serve their purposes they therefore help it out with tradition and make both together the compleat rule of faith Where I pray in all the proceedings of that Council doth Mr. S. find them desine any thing on the account of oral tradition instead of which we find continual bandyings about the sense of Scripture and Fathers which might have been all spared if they had been so wise as to consider they could not but know the sense of the present Church nor that of the precedent and so up to the time of Christ. But they were either so ignorant as not to light on this happy invention or so wise and knowing as to despise it It is true they would not have their doctrines looked on as Novelties therefore they speak much of tradition and the ancient faith but that was not by what their Parents taught them but what the Fathers of the Church delivered in their writings for by these they judged of traditions and not the oral way And therefore I see little reason to believe that this was either the sense of the Council of Trent or is the sense of any number of Roman Catholicks much less of the whole Church none excepted as Mr. S. in his confident way expresses it And if he will as he saith disavow the maintaining any point or affecting any way which is not assented to by all I hope to see Mr. S. retract this opinion and either fall in with the Court of Rome or return as reason leads him into the bosom of the Church of England But there seems to be somewhat more in what follows viz. that though schoolmen question the personal infallibility of the Pope or of the Roman Clergy nay of a General Council yet all affirm the infallibility of tradition or the living voice of the Church essential and this he faith is held by all held firmly and that it is absolutely infallible To this therefore I answer either Mr. S. means that none do affirm that the universal tradition of the Church essential can erre or that the Church of Rome being the Church essential cannot erre in her tradition But which way soever he takes it I shall easily shew how far it is from proving that he designs it for For if he take it in the first sense viz. that all the faithful in all ages could not concur in an error then he may as well prove Protestants of his mind as Papists for this is the foundation on which we believe the particular books of Scripture If this therefore proves any thing it proves more then he intends viz. that while we thus oppose each other we do perfectly agree together and truly so we do as much as they do among themselves But if Mr. S's meaning be that all of their Religion own the Roman Church to be the Church essential and on that account that it cannot erre setting aside the absurdity of the opinion it self I say from hence it doth not follow that they make orâl tradition the rule of faith because it is most evident that the ground why they say theiâ Church cannot erre is not on Mr. S's principles but on the supposition of an infallible assistance which preserves that Church from error So that this fallâ far short of proving that they are all agreed in this rule of faith which is a thing so far from probability that he might by the same argument prove that Scripture is owned by them all to be the rule of faith For I hope it is held by all and held firmly that the living voice of God in Scripture as delivered to us is infallible and if so then there is as much ground for this as the other But if we enquire what it is men make a rule of faith we must know not only that they believe tradition infallible but on what account they do so For if tradition be believed infallible barely on the account of a promise of infallibility to the present Church then the resolution of saith is not into the tradition but into that infallible assistance and consequently the rule of faith is not what bare tradition delivers but what that Church which cannot erre in judging tradition doth propose to us It is not therefore their being agreed in General that tradition is infallible doth make them agree in the same rule of faith but they must agree in the ground of that infallibility viz. that it depends on this that no age could conspire to deceive the next But all persons who understand any thing of the Roman Church know very well that the general reason why tradition is believed infallible is
I cannot yet see but that therein I argued from the very nature and constitution of the thing For that which â looked for was a demonstration which I supposed could not be unless the impossibility of the contrary were demonstrated But if it be possible for men Christians nay Romanists to believe on other accounts then the tradition of the precedent age I pray what demonstration can there be that men must think themselves obliged to believe and do all just as their predecessors did Surely if Mr. S's fancy had not been very extravagant he could never have thought here of mens being obliged to cut their Beards or wear such Garters and Hat-bands as their fore-fathers did For do I not mention believing first and then doing by which it were easie to apprehend that I meant matters of faith and such practises as flow from them Neither was there any such crafty and sophistical dealing as he charges me with for I am content his doctrine be taken in his own terms and I have now given a larger and fuller account why I am far from being convinced by the way he hath used for resolving faith Passing by therefore his challenge which I accept of as long as he holds to the weapon of reason and civility I come to consider his last enquiry why I should come to doubt of such an obligation in posterity to believe their ancestors in matters of faith and he judiciously resolves it into a strange distortion of human nature but such as it seems is the proper effect of the Protestants temper which is saith he to chuse every one his faith by his private judgement or wit working upon disputable words Which as far as we own it is not to believe what we see no ground for and if this be such a distortion of humane nature I envy not Mr. S's uprightness and perfection If he means that we build our faith on our private judgements in opposition to Scripture or the Universal Tradition of the Church in all ages let him prove it evidently in one particular and I engage for my self and all true Protestants we will renounce the belief of it If he hath any thing further to object against the Grounds of our Religion he knows where to attaque me let him undertake the whole or else acknowledge it a most unreasonable thing thus to charge falsities upon us and then say we have nothing else to say for our selves We pretend not to chuse our faith but heartily embrace whatever appears to have been delivered by Christ or his Apostles but we know the Church of Rome too well to believe all which she would impose upon us and are loth to have her chuse our Religion for us since we know she hath chosen so ill for her self But if Mr. S. will not believe me in saying thus what reason have I to believe him in saying otherwise such general charges then signifie nothing but every one must judge according to the reason on both sides I now come to the last part of my task which is to shew that this way is repugnant to common sense and experience and that the Church of Rome hath apparently altered from what was the belief of former ages To which purpose my words are It is to no purpose to prove the impossibility of motion when I see men move no more is it to prove that no age of the Church could vary from the preceding when we can evidently prove that they have done it And therefore this argument is intended only to catch easie minds that care not for a search into the history of the several ages of the Church but had rather sit down with a superficial subtilty then spend time in further enquiries But two things Mr. S. tells me are required ere I can see that their faith varies from the former First to see what their Church holds now and then to see what the former Church held before and he kindly tells me if he sees any thing I see neither well It seems I want Mr. S's spectacles of oral tradition to see with but as yet I have no cause to complain of the want of them but â see much better without them theâ with them He tells me I cannot see what their present Church holds anâ therefore I cannot assure any what wâ held before because if I renounce tradition I take away all means of knowing The reason why I cannot candidly see as he phrases it what their Church holds now is because I cannot distinguish between faith and its explication some Schoolmen and the Church By which it seems it is impossible for me to know what their Church holds concerning Invocation of Saints Worship of Images Communion in one kind for those are the points I there mention wherein it is evident that the Church of Rome hath receded from the doctrine and practise of the Primitive Church Or are these only the opinions and practises of some Schoolmen among them and not the doctrine and practise of their Church But that we might come to some fuller state of these controversies I wish M. S. would settle some sure way whereby we might know distinctly what are the doctrines and practises of their Church If the Council of Trent and Roman-Catechism be said to be the rule of doctrine I desire no other so that those may be interpreted by practises universally allowed among them As when that Council only defined that due honour be given to Saints the general practise of that Church may tell us what they mean by that due honour and if that be not fair I know not what is But I see all the shift Mr. S. hath is when he is pinched to say those are the opinions of Schoolmen and private speculators and not the doctrine of their Church And if such shifts as these are must serve the turn I should wonder if ever he be to seek for an answer But the shortest answer of all would be that none but those of their Church can know what she holds and therefore it is to no purpose for Protestants to write against her or it may be that none but Mr. S. and one or two more can tell for many among them say those are the doctrines of their Church which they deny to be So that except Mr. White and Mr. S. and some very few demonstrators more all the rest are Schoolmen private opinators and not to be relyed on But I cannot see what their Church held formerly neither No wonder at all of that for if I cannot see an object so near me as the present Church how can it be expected I should see one so much further off as the doctrine of former ages And his reason is so strong as may well perswade me out of one at least of my five senses For saith he if I question tradition I question whether there be any doctrine delivered and so any Fathers And is not this argued
like a Demonstrator First he supposes there never was any way used in the world but oral tradition and then strongly infers if I deny that I can know nothing But I can yet hardly perswade my self that the Fathers only sate in Chimney corners teaching their Children by word of mouth and charging them to be sure to do so to theirs but as they loved preserving the doctrine of faith they should have a great care never to write down a word of it But why I wonder should Mr. S. think that if I do not allow of âral tradition I must needs question whether there were any Fathers I had thought I might have known there had âeen Fathers by their Children I mean âhe Books they left behind them But if âll Mr. S. pleads for be only this that âo books can be certainly conveyed âithout tradition he disputes withâut an adversary but as I never opâose this so I am sure it doth him lite service It is then from the books âf the Fathers that I find what the sense âf the Church of their age was and âom thence I have shewed how vastly âifferent the opinions and practises of âe Roman Church are from those of âe Primitive Although then I may âot think my self obliged to believe âll that the present Church delivers for âatter of faith yet I hope I may find âhat the opinions and practise of the âormer Church were by the records âhat are left of it And the reason âhy I cannot think any one obliged âo believe what every age of the âhurch delivers is because I think no man obliged to believe contradictions and I see the opinions and practises of several ages apparently contrary to each other Well but I call this way a superficial subtilty and so I think it still so little have Mr. S's demonstrations wrought upon me But saith he is that which is wholly built on the nature of things superficial No but that which pretends to be so built may And of that nature I have shewed thiâ way to be and not the former Buâ that I may not think him Superficiaâ as well as his way he puts a profound Question to me What do I think Controversie is and that he may the better let me know what it is he answers himself I deal plainly with you saith he you may take it to be an aâ of talking and I think you do so though you will not profess it but I take it to be a noble science But to let him see that I will deal as plainly with him as he doth with me I will profess it that I not only think Controversie as usually managed but some mens way of demonstrating Mr. S. may easily know whom I mean to be a meer art of âalking and nothing else But he takes ât to be a noble science yes doubtless âf Mr. S. manage it and he be the âudge of it himself His meaning I âuppose is by his following words âhat be goes upon certain principles and âe do not We have already seen how âertain his principles have been and I âhould be somewhat ashamed of my âeligion if I had no better But what âur rule of faith is hath been so amply âiscoursed already by you and that in âr S's clearing method that nothing â left for me to do but to touch at âhat remains and concludes this anâer I had the better to illustrate âhe weakness of that argument from âral tradition brought an instance in âhat case parallel viz. that if one ages âelivering to another would prove that âe faith of Christ was in every age ânalterable because no age did testifie âny such alteration to be in it by âhe same argument the world might be âroved eternal because no age did âver testifie to another that the world âas ever otherwise then it is So that âf oral tradition were only to be relied on there could be no evidence given of the worlds being ever otherwise then it is and consequently the world must be believed to have been alwayes what we see it is This aâ far as I can apprehend is a clear and distinct ratiocination and purposely designed to prove that we must admit oâ other rules to judge of alterations iâ the Church by besides oral tradition But Mr. S. in his own expression strangely roving from the mark I aimeâ at professes there is not a tittle in iâ parallel to his medium nay that he never saw in his life more absurdities coucheâ in fewer words But I must take alâ patiently from a man who still percheâ on the specifical nature of things and never flags below the sphere of science Yet by his good leave he either apprehends not or wilfully mistakes my meaning for my argument doth noâ proceed upon the belief of the worldâ eternity which in his answer he runâ wholly upon as far as eighthly and lastly but upon the evidence of oral tradition as to no discernable alteration in anâ age of it For the Question between usâ is whether in matters of alteration iâ the faâ or practice of the Church we are bound to rely only on the testimony of oral tradition so that if no age can be instanced in wherein any alteration was made and this delivered by that age then we are bound to believe there hath been no alteraration since Christ and the Apostles times now I say if this âold good I will prove the world eternal by the same argument taking this for our principle that we are bound to rely only on oral tradition in the case originally derived from the matter of fact seen by those of the first age for that which never was otherwise then it is is eternal but we cannot know by oral tradition that the world ever was otherwise then it is for no age of the world can be instanced in wherein we have any testimony of any alteration that was in it Either then we must believe that the world ever was what it is i. e. Eternal or else we must say that we are not to rely barely on oral tradition in this case but we must judge whether the world were made or no by other mediums of Scripture and reason And this was all which I aimed at viz. to shew that where there is no evidence from oral tradition yet if there be Scripture and reason there is sufficient ground for our faith to stand upon And so I apply it to the present case though we could not prove barely from the tradition of any one age that there had been any alteration in the faith or practice of the Church yet if I can prove that there hath been such from Scripture and reason this is sufficient for me to believe it And now I dare appeal to the indifferent Reader âether thiâ be so full of absurdities or it bâ such a rambling Chimerical argumenâ as he calls it no two pieces â which hang together with themselves ãâã any thing else Which
A REPLY TO Mr. J. S. his 3 d. APPENDIX Containing some Animadversions ON THE BOOK ENTITULED A RATIONAL ACCOUNT of the Grounds of PROTESTANT RELIGION By Ed. Stillingfleet B. D. London Printed by R. W. for Henry Mortlock at the Sign of the Phoenix in St. Pauls Church-yard near the little North-door 1666. An Appendix to the RULE of FAITH To his honoured Friend Mr. John Tillotson SIR AS soon as I understood your intentions to answer Mr. Serjeant I could not but rejoyce on his behalf as well as on the truths and your own For I have that real kindness for him that I heartily wish him that reason and science he pretends to which I could not but despair of his attaining unless he were undeceived in that monstrous opinion he hath of himself and his undertakings And I knew no person more fit then you to let him understand the trÌuth and himself together In which your performances have been so clear and satisfactory that I hope Mr. Serjeant in stead of another letter of directions to his Answerer will write you one of thanks for the reason and kindness you have shewed him throughout your Book Unless it fares with you as it hath done with some other Adversaries of theirs that their civility hath been interpreted as an argument of their uncertainty and their own confidence cried up for a demonstration In which sense only I shall grant our Protestant Writerâ to build on uncertainties and Mr. White and Mr. Serjeant to be the great Demonstrators of this age If their own reason had been as severe as the censures at Rome against them they had saved us the labour of any answer and would have found out their own Sophistry without a confutation But the least thing we can imagine by their excessive confidence is that they are deceived themselves and therefore iâ is a part of charity to them as well aâ justice to the truth to let the world âe that big words are quite another âing from science and a strong preâmption from a regular demonstraâon As to which no more need to âve been said than what you have alâady done if Mr. Serjeant had not âought it an accession to the glory of âs atchievements to lead two Pages âf my book in triumph after him I ânfess I was somewhat surprised to see person who would be noted for his âlour in assaulting Protestant Writers âeal so behind the main bulk and design âf my Book and when he had gotten âo single pages by themselves fall âpon them with as much pomp and âtentation as if he had attacqu'd the âhole And this must be noised abroad an Answer to me by the same figure âat his arguments are called demonârations which is by an Hyperbole unâ for any but such who never flag beâw the sphere of Science in their own âdgements though they seem not to âome near it in others Yet since âr Serjeant is not only pleased to âncern himself so far as to answer that ârt of my Book relating to oral tradition but in most express terms tâ challenge me to reply to him he maâ now see assoon as I could get any liberty from greater imployments hoâ ready I am to give him all reasonablâ satisfaction And in the first place return him thanks for the weapon hâ hath made choice of viz. that of reâson there being no other I desire tâ make use of in managing this debaâ between us and I hope he will find much civility towards him throughoâ this discourse as he exptesses towarâ me in the entrance to his if that mâ be accounted any real civility which intended meerly out of design wiâ the greater advantage to disparage tâ cause I have undertaken and yet â no reason to repent of If in his cursâ view of two chapters of my Book he hâ as he saith quite lost me he had no caâ to be troubled for it if he had fouâ far more excellent persons such Dr. Hammond and the Dissuader aâ Dr. Pierce instead of me But to sure he intends not this in honour any of us but by way of a commâ reproach to us all as though we did talk out of nature or things but woâ and imagination I could heartily have wished Mr. S. would have cropt so much of the victory due to anothers learning and industry as to have shewed me one proposition in those discourses which a rational understanding that would be true to it self could not settle or rely on but if such insinuations as these must pass for answers I must needs say I judge Mr. S. equally happy in confuting our grounds and in demonstrating his own in both which his greatest strength lies in the self-evidence of his bare affirmations But it seems he is willing to resign the glory of this Victory to the judicious author of Labyrinthus Cantuariensis or to some others for him and when they have once obtained it I shall not envy them the honour of it And I suppose those persons whoever they are may be able by this time to tell Mr. S. it is an easier matter to talk of Victories than to get them But if they do no more in the whole than Mr. S. hath done for his share they will triumph nowhere but where they conquer viz. in their own fancies and imaginations Therefore leaving them to their silent conquests and as yet unheard of Victories we come to Mr. S. who so liberally proclaims his own in the point of oral Tradition Which in a phrase scarce heard of in our language before is the Post he tells us he hath taken upon him to explicate further and defend What the explicating a Post means I as little understand as I do the force of his demonstrations but this and many other such uncouth forms of speech up and down in his Book which make his style so smooth and easie are I suppose intended for embellishments of our tongue and as helps to sure-speaking as his whole Book is designed for sure-footing But letting him enjoy the pleasure and felicity of his own expressions I come to consider the matter in debate between us And his first controversie with me is for opposing the infallibility of oral tradition to doctrinal infallibility in Pope and Councils A controversie fitter to be debated among themselves than between him and me for is any thing more notorious than that Infallibility is by the far greatest part of Romanists attributed to the present Church in teaching and delivering matters of faith not by vertue of any oral tradition but the immediate assistance of the Holy Ghost and that this is made by them the only ground of divine faith For which Mr. S. may if he please consult his judicious author of Labyrinthus Cantuariensis or any other of their present Writers except Mr. White and himself He need not therefore have been to seek for the meaning of this doctrinal infallibility as opposed to traditionary if he had not either been ignorant
because they first believe the Church to be infallible whereas Mr. S. goes the contrary way and makes the infallibility of the Church to depend on the infallibility of Tradition And therefore for all that I can see we must still oppose private opinators in this controversie the Church of Rome not having declared her self at all on Mr. S's behalf but the contrary and the generality believing on the account of the present Churches infallibility And it is strange Mr. S. should find no difference between mens resolving faith into common sense and into the immediate assistance of the Holy Ghost If this then be the first principle of controversie as Mr. S. pretends we see how unlikely they are to agree about other matters who are so much divided about the principle of resolving them And if this be the ground of faith then most Romanists build on a wrong Foundation But if the infallibility of oral tradition be the foundation on which that formidable structure is erecting which he speaks of woe then to the Court of Rome for that is known to build on quite a different foundation And if this as he saith rises apace and has advanced many stories in a small time it only lets us know how fast their divisions grow and that they are building so fast one against another that their Church will not stand between them By this discourse Mr. S. pretends to answer all those If 's which follow which are these In case the Church may determine things de fide which were not before whether the present Church doth then believe as the precedent did or no if it did how comes any thing to be de fide which was not before if it did not what assurance can I have that every age of the Church believes just as the precedent did and no otherwise When I see they profess the contrary And if a thing may be de fide in one age which was not in a foregoing then a Church may deliver that as a matter of faith at one time which was never accounted so before by which means the present Church may oblige me to believe that as a matter of faith which never was so in Christs or the Apostles times and so the infallibility on the account of tradition is destroyed To all which Mr. S. gives a very easie answer viz. that they do not hold any disparate or unimplyed points of faith but such as are involved and implyed in the main point This is more easily said then understood For if these be implyed in the former how can there come a new obligation to believe them For to take his own Instance will any man in his senses say that he that believes homo est animal rationale doth not believe homo est animal and this he makes choice of as an example how one point of faith may be involved in another so as to receive a distinct obligation to believe it I grant that homo est animal is involved in the other but he that shall say that after he hath assented to that proposition homo est animal rationale he may be capable of a new obligation to believe the former which is involved in this it may be justly questioned whether such a one as to himself can truly say homo est animal rationale or no. But after such rare subtilties he doth very well to tell me that I ought to consider what Logick tells us that the conclusion is in the premises which reflection in his courtlike expression he saith will much unblunder my thoughts But let the conclusion be as long as it will in the premises will any man in his wits say that he that believes the truth of the premises is not thereby bound to believe the conclusion and the more the one is involved in the other the less is it possible to make the obligation to believe them distinct And it is hard for me to believe that this is a way to unblunder my thoughts when I see what horrible confusion such expressions argue in his own Let the Church then clear her thoughts never so much yet all this cannot amount to a distinct obligation to believe those things which were involved before but to a more explicit declaring them for the Churches peace and satisfaction The only conclusion then involved in these premises is that if some things may be de fide in one age which were not in another then the present age may believe otherwise then the precedent did And if this doctrine be held in the Church of Rome nothing can be more evident then that Mr. S's first principle of controversie is far from being the doctrine of the Roman Church which was the thing to be proved My second chief argument against this way of oral tradition was that it had not been owned in all ages of the Christian Church to manifest which I enquired into the reason of the obligation in any age of the Church to believe and practise just as the precedent did Mr. S. rejoyces in that confession of mine that the only thing to be proved in this case is that every age of the Church and all persons in it looked on themselves as obliged not to vary in any thing from the doctrine and practise of the precedent age And I there offer the choice of three wayes to prove it reason testimony Or tradition he tells me he accepts the way of reason yet quarrels with me for pressing for a demonstrative medium to prove it when yet Mr. S. seldome speaks undeââhe rate of demonstrations But he thereby notes the unconsonancy of my carriage Wherein I wonder that I should desire them to perform their promise viz. to give us demonstrations for the grounds of faith But he saith withal he will yield me the honour of professing I have no demonstration but probability for the ground of mine and he makeâ this serious protestation for himself thaâ he should esteem himself very dishonest did he assert and press on others anâ argument for the ground of his faith which he judged not evident that is demonstrative What is it these men mean when they cry up their own way for demonstrative and say that we build âur faith meerly on probabilities Do âhey say that Religion is capable of ârict and rigorous demonstration If ãâã let them demonstrate the Being of âod and Immortality of the soul with as âuch evidence as that the three angles âf a triangle are equal to two right angles ând it is strange if they think particuâr problems in religion are more capaâle of demonstration then those Theoremsân ân which they are built But by all he enquiry I can make all the diffeâence between us is that Mr. S. will âave that called a demonstration which â scarce a probability and we call thaâ âfficient reason which any wise man âay safely rely on in matters of religiân In the mean time how much do âe suffer by our modesty
that because âe speak not as big as Mr. S. does we âust be censured presently to have noâhing but probabilities for our faith Are âhose bare probabilities which leave no âuspicion of doubt behind them and âuch we freely assert the grounds of âur religion to do i. e. I assert that we have the highest actual certainty of the truth of our Religion which the mind of any reasonable man can desire and if Mr. S's demonstrations can do any more then this let him tell us what it is For my part I know nothing higher in the mind of man then a certain assent and if I did not think there was the greatest ground in Religion for that I abhorr dissimulation so much that I should leave off perswading men to embrace it And if any men have made us shye of the word demonstration and infallibility they are such men as Mr. S. have done it who talk of these things when their arguments fall beneath some of the remotest probabilities we insist on Nay if there be any force in his demonstration as to matters of fact it hath been used by us long before his book saw the light But we love to give the true names to things and not to lose our credit with all intelligent persons by playing Mountebanks in Religion crying ãâã those things for infallible cures which an ordinary capacity may discern the insufficiency of But was it any thinâ but justice and reason in me to expeââ and call for a demonstration from them who talk of nothing under it And therefore I said that it was impossible to demonstrate this way of oral tradition unless it were proved impossible for men not to think themselves obliged to believe and do all just as their predecessors did For where the contrary is not only possible but easily supposable âs that men may believe those things as new articles of faith which are defined by Pope and Council I wonder how Mr. S. will demonstrate that men must âook on themselves as obliged to beââeve just as their predecessors did For I had thought demonstrations had âever place in contingent propositions but it seems Mr. S. who tells me Logick will unblunder my thoughts inâends to make a new one for me And â assure you so he had need before I âhall ever call his arguments demonâtrations and although he thinks himâelf very honest in calling them so yet â should think him much wiser if he did not But before I come to the particular debate of these things I freely tell him that I grant all he requests â shall take along with me the nature of the matter in hand the doctrines anâ practises spoken of the manner of delivering them the necessary circumstanceâ which give weight to both yet for alâ these I cannot look on his way as demonstrative And that both our meanings may be better understood it iâ very necessary the Reader should havâ a true account of the state of the Question between us And if he will believe me I never intended to disputâ with him or any one else whether meâ were bound to wear their clothes or builâ houses or manage estates just as theiâ predecessors did but whether eveâ age is obliged to believe and practiâ just as the precedent did by vertue oâ meer oral tradition for about that iâ all the controversie between us I dâ not deny but that a succeeding agâ may look on it self as bound to believe what the precedent did buâ whether that obligation doth ariâ purely from the delivery of that doctrine by the precedent in the way oâ of tradition is the thing in dispute between us For in case the ground â faith be wholly the written word conveyed from age to age I deny not but an obligation to believe descends with the doctrine to every succeeding age But that which Mr. S. is to prove is that abstractly from Scripture every age is absolutely bound to believe just as the precedent did without any enquiry whether that doctrine doth agree with Scriptures or no but that he is therefore bound to believe all which is proposed to him because it was the doctrine of the immediately preceding age And this is that which I deny and desire Mr. S. to prove For which he first gives us a large instance in historical matters and then comes to the matters of Christian saith His Instance is in Alexanders conquest of Asia as to which he saith that the memory of it is fresh and lively though some thousand years since And that the universal and strong perswasion of this matter of fact was not caused by Books as Curtius his History but by humane tradition that the continuance of this perswasion was the notoriety of the fact to the then livers which obliged them to relate it to their posterity and that this testifying by the fore-fathers was that which obliged posterity to believe things as true because there could be no imaginable motive why the whole world should conspire to deceive them or be deceivable in their sensations on which principle it passed to the next age and so came down by way of tradition to our dayes and the obligation to believe in every age depended upon this that the senses of the first could not be deceived and having this security in every age that no one would conspire to deceive the next it followes that no age could say a former age testified so unless it did so therefore saith he it follows demonstratively that it was testified and so the descendents in every age to the very end of the world have the same obligation to believe their immediate fore-fathers saying it was testified by theirs and so to the very first who were witnesses of his actions This is the substance of what he more largely discourses in several Paragraphs which when he hath done he tells me he expects what I will reply to this discourse Not to frustrate therefore his expectation and in order to the Readers satisfaction we are to consider that in the present case there are two distinct questions to be resolved 1. How a matter of fact evident to the world comes to be conveyed to posterity 2. By what means a compleat history of all passages relating to it may be conveyed As ãâã the first I grant that a fact so notoâus as Alexanders conquest of Asia might have been preserved by humane tradition and conveyed in a certain way from one age to another But if we enquire into that which is alone proper to our Question viz. by what means we may judge what is true and false as to the particulars of that conquest then I deny that bare tradition is to be relyed on in this case For the certainty of conveyance of all particulars doth depend not upon the bare veracity but the capacity and skill of communicating from one age to another For which one would think we need no clearer evidence then the considerations of the different
being expressions of as great modesty as science I am content Mr. S. should bear away the honour of them and his demoâstrations together The last thing he quarrels witâ me for is that I say if we can âv dently prove that there have been alâ rations in the Church then it is to â purpose to prove that impossible which we see actually done And this appears not only because the Scripture supposes a degeneracy in the Christian Church which could never be if every age of the Church did insaâlibly believe and practise as the precedent up to Christs time did but because we can produce clear evidence that some things are delivered by the present Church which must be brought in by some age since the time of Christ. For which I refer the Reader to what I had said about communion in one kind Invocation of Saints and worship of Images In all which I say I had proved evidently that they were not in use in some ages of the Christian Church and it is as evident that these are delivered by the present Church and therefore this principle must needs be false In answer to this Mr. S. wishes I would tell him first what evidence means whether a strong fancy or a demonstration I mean that which is enough to perswade a wise man who judges according to the clearest reason which I am sure is more then ever his demonstrations will do But it is a pleasant spectacle to see how Mr. S. layes about him at my saying that the Scripture supposes a degeneracy in the Christian Church Incomparably argued saith he why see we not the place does it evidently speak of faith or manners the Universal Church or particular persons but be it in faith be it universal does it suppose this degeneracy already past which is only proper to your purpose or yet to come That is does it say there must be a total Apostacy in faith before the year 1664. Alas he had forgot this Most incomparably answered For if the degeneracy be in 1665. or any years aâter what becomes of M. S's dâmonstration then that no errors could come into the Church but it seems his demonstration holds but till 1664. and I easily believe an other year will never believe the truth of it But if such a thing as a degeneracy be possible how then stands the infallibility of tradition when there can be no degeneracy without falling from the doctrine and practices of Christ and his Apostles But that such a degeneracy hath already been in that which calls it self the Catholick Church and that both in faith and manners I shall referr Mr. S. to the learned Author of the late Idea of Antichristianism and Synopsis Prophetica where he may find enough to perswade him that his demonstration was far from holding so long as 1664. And now I leave the Reader to judge whether the foregoing evidences against the infallibility of oral tradition or Mr. S's demonstrations have the greater force of reason in them And if he will not stoop so far from the height of his perch as to take notice of what I have elsewhere said I am resolved to let him see I am not at all concerned about it I begin to understand him so well by this Appendix that I can give my self a reasonable account why he thought it not sit to meddle with any other part of my book But if Mr. S. be resolved not to answer any of the testimonies I there produce unless I single them out and print them at the end of this Answer i. e. remove them from that evidence which attends them in the series of the discourse I can only say he is the most imperious answerer I have met with who is resolved never to deal with an adversary but on his own unreasonable terms Thus heartily wishing Mr. S's Science as great as his opinion of it and a good effect of our endeavours to promote the one by removing the other I am Sir Your affectionate friend and servant Edward Stillingfleet London June 28. FINIS Postscript SIR SInce the dispatch of the former Papers I have met with another Treatise wherein I find my self concerned written by the author of Fiat Lux the Title whereof is Diaphanta I am afraid the Title affrights you for I assure you it is the most formidable thing in his whole Book But the man is a very modest man and hugely different from Mr. S's humor for he is so far from offering to demonstrate the grounds of faith that all he pretends to in the title of his book iâ to excuse Catholick Religion against the opposition of several Adversaries What fault I pray hath the Catholick Religion committed that it must now come to be excused instâad of being defended But when I look into that part which concerns my self I presently understand the meaning of it which is not to excuse Catholick Religion but themselves for not being able to defend it For he very ingenuously tells us that faith is firm and constant though all his talk for it be miserably weak i. e. he is sure they have an excellent Religion though he knows not what to say for it and their faith is a very good faith but it hath not yet had the good fortune to be understood by them For he acknowledges that as often as they dispute they are beyond the business so may any one believe who reads their late books which is in effect to say there is no way left of disputing any longer with adversaries about their faith only they must believe it stoutly themselves but it is to no purpose to offer to defend it Nay it doth their faith a great deal of mischief for saith he in reading controversies we see not so much the nature of the faith as the wit of him who opposes or defends it From whence we may easily gather what unspeakable mischief they do their cause by writing for it By which expressions we may guess at what a low ebbe the defence of their faith is among them for the way now taken to defend it is by disowning the defenders of it and by saying that they only vent their own opinions and though we confute them never so much yet their faith holds good still Was ever a good cause driven to such miserable shifts as these are especially among those who pretend to wit and learning One he saith T. C. vents a private opinion of his own and it is not a pin matter whether it stand or fall another he saith the same of I. S. a third of J. V. C. and yet for all this their religion is very firm and sure and they all at perfect agreement about it Is this the victory over me Mr. S. mentions to be so easie a thing I see that by the same figure Mr. S. calls his way of arguing demonstration running out of the field shall be accounted conquering For I never saw any person do it