I see no great cause he has to wonder that Princes and the Clergy should be of different minds in Matters of Religion He knows the Case has happened heretofore and that there had been no change of Religion in England if the whole Body of the Clergy and their Advice had been regarded But not to pry into Mens Hearts to see what Interest sways them This is certain that those Princes who prefer their Eternal before their Temporal Interest when they are for the Church of Rome 〈◊〉 good example And I cannot conclude better 〈…〉 praying God to give every body the Grace to follow it and in behalf of Princes thanking him 〈◊〉 minding his Reader that they are not all drawn 〈…〉 of Rome by Interest A DEFENCE OF THE Second Paper THE first Paragraph as the Answerer has handled it concerns the Church of England more than me If She when the King talks of Heresies and Heresies crept in think her self oblig'd by the Answerers thinking presently of her or when she is brought in by his turning immediately to justifie the Dissenters and that by an Argument alledged formerly in her behalf with something more favour to them too than her â— for he allows Them Six Councils and but Four to Herâ— I have nothing to do with it They are Matters between themselves Are there Heresies in England or are there not Is it a sad thing there should or is it not These are the Questions at present and 't will be time enough to talk of the Church of England and Dissenters when they are answered What Power the Church of Rome has to define Heretiâ—â—â— Doctrines will keep cold too For 't is not ask'd How Heresies come to be or are known to be Hereâ—â—◠〈…〉 That 〈◊〉 should lay the stress of his Answer on a 〈◊〉 This Expression as competent as the 〈◊〉 is bâ— t an ordinary way of saying very compeâ—â—â—â— As when we say This Man is as strong as Samâ—◠〈◊〉 as wise as Solomon we mean no more 〈◊〉 that they are very strong and wise And he can 〈◊〉 that Not just so competent as the Apostles is an 〈◊〉 to Whether Competent or no and to 〈◊〉 at a Word fit matter in a Dispute with a King 〈…〉 us see The Apostles for what concerned 〈◊〉 could do no more with their Infallible 〈◊〉 than judge for themselves and act in order 〈…〉 Salvation according to that Judgment And 〈…〉 the Answerer contends is the right of every 〈◊〉 Why then every body is in rigour as competent 〈…〉 for himself as the Apostles And he 〈◊〉 to 〈…〉 His Majesty affirmed by 〈…〉 himself â— or His Majesty only said ther understand nor mean to inquire It concerns those Guides and it is not for me to thrust my self into the Concerns of other Folks And 't is no wonder says the third Paragraph it should be so since that Part of the Nation which looks most like a Church dares not bring the true Arguments against the other Sects for fear they should be turned against themselves and confuted by their own Arguments To this he says first That it is directly level'd against the Church of England As if an Arrow were the sharper or blunter for the Mark at which it is aim'd Let him tell us whether the Assertion be true or not true and talk of Levelling when Levelling is in question He is out even in that too For the Paragraph is in truth levell'd not against the Church of England but her Misfortune It is an Expression of Compassion not Reproach that she has been overaw'd from using the true Arguments against Sectaries Then he answers That if there can be no Authority in a Church without Infallibility or no Obligation to submit to Authority without it then the Church of England doth not use the best Arguments against Sectaries But if there be no ground for Infallibility as if his won Goodness were not Ground enough for God to give it to a Nature which needs it and his Word not Ground enough to believe he has given it then for ought he can see the Church of England hath wisely disown'd the Pretence of Infallibility and made use of the best Arguments against Sectaries from a just Authority and the Sinfulness and Folly of the Sectaries refusing to submit to it I take for granted he speaks of Authority to guide Souls to Heaven such as was in the Primitive Church when the Civil Laws were all against her And pray him if he please to instruct us how such Authority can be in a Church without Infalâ—â— bility We see no body will believe a Man who after he has told his Story should add It may be all falâ— e for any thing he knows nor lend his Money upon a Promise to be repaid which the Borrower declares before-hand he knows not whether he can keep or no. And we are persuaded there should be better Security for our Souls than for our Money or unconcerning Opinions To say a Church is fallible is to say she may be deceiv'd and if she may be deceiv'd her self They may be deceiv'd who follow her Wherefore to tell us that such a Church has notwithstanding Authority to guide us and that we ought submit to it is to tell us we ought be led by a Guide who cannot answer he knows the way we should go and venture eternal Happiness or Misery on a Security which he who gives tells us plainly before-hand may fail us Pray let us consider Christians every body knows are oblig'd to lose all things their Goods their Liberty their Lives rather than their Faith Can it be reasonable to do this for a Faith of which they are conscious to themselves that it may be false for any thing they know And do's not his own Heart tell him who knows nothing of it but by the Relation of a fallible Relator that it may be false for ought he can tell Wherefore to make the Faith of Christians depend on a fallible Authority is to make Christianity with its obliging Duties the most unreasonable thing in Nature What do I say unreasonable It is to make it absolutely impossible For can I be a Christian without believing Is not Belief a judgment that the thing is true which I believe Can I have such a Judgment without a cause able to produce it And is a fallible Authority able to make me judge more than that the thing is fallibly true When Christianity therefore obliges me to believe the thing absolutely true it there be nothing to make me believe but a fallible Authority it obliges me to an Effect without a Cause that is to a downright impossibility And indeed to flat Contradiction For as a thing cannot possibly be true and not true at once to judge it is true is to judge it cannot at the same time be false But I must of necessity judge both if I judge upon a Motive which I know is fallible That it is true by the Judgment to
to her and says That who believe her to be the Catholic believe as they please without any colour of Scripture Antiquity or Reason This Ball has been tost already and in my Opinion enough Only lest he whoever believe be thought to speak as he pleases he would do well to shew what Scripture or Reason tells him that the Roman Church with the rest of her Belief for sure he talks not of a Diocess was not always believ'd the Catholic Church Antiquity I know he has as much as since Luther Any other Colour from all these three I see none Divers other Points he brings in I know not why unless that he has perhaps a mind to be sailing on the Ocean of particular Disputes As I have not I mean to stay on firm Ground with S. Austin and content my self that It was thought fit by the Catholic Church spread throughout the World to observe what we hold And that Because the things we hold are observ'd by the Vniversal Church they are believ'd not otherwise deliver'd and recommended than by the Apostles Who has a mind to put to Sea with the Answerer will I think find the same Saint's Counsel good When he has been tost enough and has a mind to be at ease to follow the way of Catholic Discipline which descended from Christ himself by the Apostles even to us and shall to Posterity He shall if he please excuse me from rambling after him into the Authority they allow the Church which gay word if it should signify no more as I suspect it sometimes do's not than that it do's oblige People whatever they think to hold their Tongues and not to thwart her decisions in public for fear of losing their Benefices it were great pity Likâ—â— e into free Councils and Factions and what else he fills a Page with For whatever he do I remember our Question all the while is whether it be well or ill said That it is not left to every Phantastical Man's Head to believe as he pleases And when he pleases to speak to it I am for him In the next Section he tells us That all they plead for in this case is the right which Loyal Subjects have under an Vsurper so far to interpret the Laws as to be able to understand their duty c. I will not ask him who the Usurpers are and who the Loyal Subjects For he makes account I find that to receive Faith from him who thought it no Usurpation to be equal to God and keep it when People have it and tell other folks what it is is Usurpation and that who is so bold as to deny it stands in danger of being hurried into the Ocean of Controversies with the Answerers fancy of Scripture for a sure Compass to direct him out again All this while we have other Business in hand We have an Assertion and an Answer to mind The Assertion is That it were a very irrational thing to make Laws for a Country and leave it to the Inhabitants to be Interpreters and Iudges of those Laws And the Answer is That it is as irrational to allow an Vsurper to Interpret the Laws to his own advantage Is this I or No again or what do's it say That both are Irrational which is to say that the Assertion is true Or that both are Rational or one Rational the other not Let him say if he please what he would be at and leave Usurpers till we have Business with them His Majesty supposes next that the goodness of 〈◊〉 would not leave Men uncertain of the way to Heaven which they would be if Scripture were the Rule and every Man his own Judge He by way of Question says first That the Rule is capable of being understood by those to whom it was given in order to the great end of it Salvation Which is next to saying that it is not capable of being understood by those to whom it was not given that is by any but the Church to whom alone it was given In which he may be sure I shall not contradict him But is it understood with certainty by every Man who will be his own Judge or are we left to uncertainty These are our Questions to which how this which he says should be any step towards an Answer I cannot imagine Next he tells us That the main end of the Rule was to direct us in the way to Heaven and not meerly to determine Controversies Here is work enough for him that needs it For who shall understand what other end there is of a Rule to determine Controversies but determining Controversies Heaven is indeed the end for which it is necessary Controversies should be determiâ— ' d but that is to be the end of the Determination not the Rule How a Rule made to determine Controversies should have any end besides determining them when the end of a thing is what it was made for or why directing to Heaven and determining Controversies should here be separated where the Determination is the very direction of a Rule to determine them they may Dispute who love Disputing All shall pass for me till I find something which concerns our Question certain or uncertain His next words suppose Scripture is the Rule a little odly me thinks for an Answerer For when it is objected against its being a Rule that we should be left at uncertainties it would have shew'd better to have taken some notice of the Objection before he take for granted the thing which is in Dispute But I shall not stop him What will he do with his Rule now he has suppos'd it Why It is fit to examine and compare Controversies with this Infallible Rule and then we shall determine them Infallibly I hope I expected this should follow but was much mistaken What he says is That when that is done to help us in our way to Heaven is that which it was chiefly intended for He may if he please keep his Intended till some body doubt what was intended in every thing which God do's for Man and tell us in the mean time what his examining and comparing will do Whether it will determine Controversies or no and whether certainly or no or whether it be no matter whether they be determined or no but we shall get to Heaven by â— are examining which side soever of the Controversie examined we chuse and whether any or none Whatever was chiefly intended determining Controversies sure was intended by a Rule to determine them and our comparing them with that Rule Pray let him tell us how we shall succeed whether hit or miss in compassing that Intentiâ— n. 'T will be afterwards time enough to talk of his other chief Intention He says further That no Man can think it of equal consequence to him not to be mistaken and not to be damned As if mistakes in our case would not damn a Man For who can hope to be saved without pleasing God and every body
from the establish'd Doctrine of it In the next place he is sensible how nice and tender a thing it is to meddle in a Matter wherein the Memory of so Great a Lady is concern'd Here he is sensible once for all for after this one Civility you hear no more of his Good Manners to the end of the Chapter but the Honour of the Church of England so wholly takes up his thoughts that he forgets the Respect which is due to her Sex her Quality her Memory her Relations and confutes her as coursly as the Parson did Bellarmine He go's on to inform us how hard a Task he has undertaken in answering these Papers wherein such Circumstances are mention'd as cannot fully be clear'd the Parties themselves having been many years dead yet he shall endeavour to keep within due Bounds c. These due Bounds either are or ought to be Respect to the Great Lady and Caution in regard of Circumstances which I hope he will not put upon his Readers for Arguments the Parties being dead so long ago But let the Reader here take notice that in this very Place he is clapping his Cups together and shuffling his Balls from Hand to Hand to lay the Foundation of his Jugling and to prepare the way for all the Tricks which he is to play hereafter For the Parties being dead long since that is the Duchess in the first place not being alive to justifie the several Conferences which she had with the Bishops not they in the second to answer as in the sight of God whether she had such Discourse with them the Field is open for him as he vainly imagines by laying Circumstances of Time and Place together and racking her own Paper till it seemingly speaks against her to render it suspected to his good Friends the Rabble that she has falsified the whole Matter Well we shall see what he builds upon this Foundation Let him speak for himself The way of her Satisfaction was very extraordinary for towards the Conclusion she confesses she was not able nor would she enter into Disputes with any body Commend me to him for a Man of quick dispatch At the first dash he is bringing the two Ends of her Paper together for he says Towards the Conclusion she confesses 'T was well search'd of him however to hunt counter and run to the End of her Discourse for the Beginning of his own He will lose no Advantages I warrant him Press that home Doctor She modestly owns that she was neither able nor willing to enter into Disputes therefore she had no other way to satisfie her self When the whole drift of this Pious and sincere Discourse is to inform her Friends of the Methods by which God Almighty brought her into his Church her Paper being a plain and short History of her Conversion The Answerer is of Opinion there is nothing to be done no satisfaction to be had in Matters of Religion without Dispute that 's his only Receipt his Nostrum for attaining a true belief But Doctors differ in this Point For another Witty Gentleman of his Church desir'd no other Epitaph upon his Tomb than this Here lies the Author of this Sentence Disputandi pruritus scabies Ecclesiae The itch of Disputation is the Scab or Tetter of the Church Now if the Learned avail themselves so little of Dispute that it is as rare as a Prodigie for one of them to convince another what shall become of the Ignorant when they are to deal with those fencers of Divinity Who can hit them in Tierce and Quart at pleasure while they are ignorant how to stand upon their guard And yet such poor People have Souls to save as precious in the sight of God as the grim Logicians Must they be damned unless they can make a regular approach to Heaven in Mood and Figure Is there no entring there without a Sillogism or Ergoteering it with a nego concedo distinguo The best on 't is Our Saviours Disciples were but poor Fishermen and we read but of one of his Apostles who was bred up at the Feet of Gamaliel I would beseech our Answerer to consider whether he has argued upon his own Principles in affirming that none can be satisfied as to the grounds of leaving one Church and going to the other without entring into Dispute Has he not allow'd that every Man is to Interpret the Scripture for himself in reference to his own Salvation With what Face then can he positively say That this Lady who had not only read the Scriptures but found them in her Judgment plainly to decide the great Controversie betwixt Catholics and Protestants might not leave his Church and enter into that of Christ by Interpreting this is my Body in the Litteral and Obvious meaning If from a Catholic she had become a Protestant by expounding those Words in a Figurative Sense he would have applauded her for not discerning the Lords Body and said she was in the right to interpret for her self But she it seems must be an exception to his General Rule and not have that priviledge allow'd her which he dare not deny to any Sectary of the Nonconformists The Phanatics think the Scripture is clear in all Matters of Salvation and if so what need say they of those Spiritual Directours Even the Pillars of the Church by Law establish'd from their own Concessions are found to be but broken Staffs For after all their undertaking to heal a wounded Conscience when the Arrows of the Almighty are stuck into it they leave their Proselytes finally to the Scripture as our Physicians when they have emptied the Pockets of their Patients without curing them send them at last to Tunbridge Waters or the Air of Montpelliers But if Persons be resolv'd before hand what to do says our Answerer there is no such way as to declare they will not enter into Dispute Here he would make us believe that she swallow'd a new Religion without chewing it because she Disputed not I have shew'd already what is the common fate of Disputation But had she no other way of satisfying her Conscience as he immediately infers she had not If he were not obstinately blind or rather had not an intention to blind his Reader he might have observ'd the Methods and Gradations of her change and that tho' she Disputed not yet she Discoursed which is entring into Matter of Dispute with some of the ablest of the English Clergy even with him particularly who was left by the Bishop of Winchester to be her Spiritual Directour by which it plainly appears notwithstanding all the jugglings and glosses of our Answerer that the better part even of his own Prescription was put in practice by her though without effect as to her satisfaction Why then do's he ask so many idle Questions Had she no Divines of the Church of England about her none able and willing to afford her their utmost assistance when she takes care to