principles of faith wherein consisteth the summe of all religion These first principles of religion assented vnto by this infused faith as the principles of reason by the light of nature haue taken a deeper impression in the mindes of the faithfull than the voice of the Church or an Angell from heauen could haue made For if we saith Paul the Apostles of Christ nay if an Angell from heauen confirmed in the state of happines should preach any other Gospell that is lay any other principles of religion then be all readie layd let him bee accursed Then somewhat there is of more certaintie to vs then Peter or Paul or any Angell Sinos aut Angelus Thus farre therefore you must of necessitie yeeld vnto vs except you withstand the streame of your owne Doctors that albeit the voice of the Church be a witnesse of this truth without exception yet aboue and beside this the minde of a beleeuing Christian is stroken with a lightning from Heauen inspyred with diuine reuelation enformed with that infused faith which farre surpasseth that former faith gotten by discourse and testimonie of the Church without vs. This is the last resolution of our religion into a principle that standes vpon his own ground to wit into an vndoubted assent of the minde informed by true faith fixed by the holy Ghost vpon the Axioms of Christian religion All that I would say to this point is by your Doctor Stapleton well concluded in one period Fideles enim omnes per vocem ecclesiae inducuntur ad fidem inducti autem lumine inspirationis diuinae illustrati non iam amplius propter Loquelam ecclesiae sed propter Lumen illud diuinum credunt But for more remote conclusions drawen from principles by discourse and tract of consequence because therein to rely vpon speciall reuelation were dangerous we most willingly imbrace the voice of the Church in manner as we haue said to your first motiue alwaies acknowledging Gods spirit to be more fully resident in holy assemblies then priuate braines promising to leade the Church into all truth to be resident where two or three are gathered together in his name which spirit for his part will neuer be wanting if the Church for her part be not defectiue But whether these promises made be absolute or with condition that is suppose the Church will not be led whether the spirit will perforce driue her into all truth Suppose her chieftaines assemble themselues with preiudicate and sinister affections not with that sinceritie which is required whether the spirit will therin assist them Or whether these suppositions be possible that God in regard of our sins will suffer such corruptions to creepe into Synodes as may lead thē into errour in some ages more in some lesse though euermore preseruing life in the principles of religion is the point in question Vpon which issue we denie such a power of not erring to the Church militant as should enforce the mind to giue assent to counsell decrees in the same kind and degree of faith as to the articles of beleefe which remaines more fully to be shewed out of your owne groundes MOTIVE FOr they affirme that the authority of the Church and ministerie of whom their followers receiue the sacred scriptures and their expositours be humane and such as may goe aside into errour and sometimes doe So that of necessitie whosoeuer standeth in the integritie of their opinion either haue no faith at all or else onely humane and errant For they that haue a possible impotencie of erring in one point of faith what assurance can they make of distinction that they doe not erre in all ANSVVERE WE affirme the authoritie of the Church and ministerie to be humane in the same sense as Saint Iohn cals it the testimonie of men If we receiue the testimonie of men the testimonie of God is greater Which testimonie of men was by all consent the testimonie of the Apostles themselues who ioyntly were witnesses of the resurrection of the Lord of life Then if the testimonie of the Apostles be humane I hope in the like sense we may call the authoritie of the Church humane I come at the last to that grand motiue whereupon all the rest depends the omnipotence of not erring Wherein that I may quickly touch the point I spare to proue what is granted for we go along certaine steps together without iarring First it is confessed that any counsell particular or general may erre if it be not confirmed by the Pope Secondly that Pope and counsell may erre in any by matter beside the definitiue sentence principally intended Thirdly that they may errein application of scriptures in illustrations in sequel of argument drawne from scripture to inferre that definitiue sentence Fourthly the definitiue sentence it selfe may be erronious if it be defined onely as a probabilitie not as a point of faith Fiftly though it be concluded as a matter of faith yet there may be errour in the proprietie of speech by superfluitie or want of termes by displacing of wordes or such like Only the verie bare maine sense of the conclusion it selfe is cocke sure from errour Into this narrow straite they confesse themselues to haue been alreadie pursued the consideration of which point me thinkes should cause an indifferent mind to pause a little and thinke it strange at the least that the euident truth of the Church testimonie whereupon all catholike faith must depend that the first principle standing vpon his owne ground into which all religion is to be resolued as into a pure element should be put to so many shiftes and hunted into such a narrow roome But further to vrge you with your owne I demaund from whence a counsels definitiue sentence doth receiue her infallibilitie Either it must be immediately from the spirit of God or else by means of consequence from the text of scripture or article whereupon it groundeth The first is by your selues denied for it is the first and speciall difference Bellarmine putteth twixt counsels Canons and canonicall scripture that the word of God is authorized by immediate reuelation from the spirit but counsels deriue their conclusions by discourse from the word Your champion answered me to this point that indeed God would haue his Church to vse those meanes of discourse and testimonie yet at the vpshot the spirit doth fortifie the conclusion and lets the rest go So I hope Paul did apply his bookes and parchments vsed the meanes of studie and discourse though that which he resolued vpon to put in writing was by the immediate motion of the spirit Therefore still this makes no difference at all Then belike if Bellarmine stand it is the discourse sequele of argument which the conclusion must rely vpon for her certaintie but that also proues a broken staffe euen in your owne iudgements Bellarmine saieth it is erronious and Stapleton resolues vpon it that from erronious arguments counsels doe
principally we appeale to scripture as to the certaine rule and ground of all the rest yet for the true sense and interpretation of scripture we confirme our selues by the consent of the learned in the Church by the analogie of faith and common grounds of beliefe deliuered by the Church and collected by the ancient fathers out of the most plaine vndoubted scriptures by the generall consent of antiquitie by prouinciall and generall counsels which at this day we wish and heartily pray might be called without partialitie but our complaint is the same with Saint Basil and Gregorie Nazianzene in their time that a generall counsell cannot be called with indifferencie in the throng of so many quarrels especially since the head of the strongest faction must needs be possessed with a preiudice in his owne cause These meanes of finding and maintaining the truth of God though taken seuerally they may seeme the weaker yet all or most of them ioyned together are sufficient to rest the consciences of true Catholikes To the perfection where of we labour to attaine forgetting that which is behind and endeuouring to that which is before THE SEVENTH MOTIVE THe diuine prouidence which as a center indifferently extendeth it selfe to the vniuersalitie of things hath allowed euerie creature common strength to preserue his being such is in liuelesse bodies their place or motion or qualities in vegetable their instinct of distinguishing their proper aliment in beastes the iudgement of sense and priuiledge of nature and in man an apprehension censure and proiect from the intelligence of sensible occurrents both in naturall and ciuill bodies The same wisedome and bountie which hath been so enlarged to his seruants cannot be straightned to his children and therefore it is aboue all doubt that he hath set some plaine and certaine direction in his Church both of discerning of heresies when they arise and of auoiding the infection of them neither hath the holy Ghost failed herein for because all the dangers of the Church were chiefly to come from heretikes hee hath drawne in the scripture as in a table the picture of heretikes their apparrell fashion speech and cariage whereby they might be noted vpon the first apparance But among all other Items none is oftener giuen for a marke to discerne them then their difference of doctrine from the former tradition and custome There shall be false teachers which shall bring in heresies 2. Peter 2. 1. If any man come to you and bring not this doctrine Iohn 2. 10. And the contradiction of Corah 1. Tim. 8. If any man teach other wise then that which you haue heard from the beginning Let it abide in you fight for the faith once deliuered keepe the traditions you are taught And if any man would fashion in his wishes a plaine and sensible rule whereby the thickest conceits that are not able to goe betweene truth and errour in the loosest controuersies might determine any question there cannot bee a better fancied then this difference of teaching and innouation of doctrine which he that vnderstandeth not the sense may perceiue by the words the soundes and contradiction of former opinion as men that are skilfull in musicall proportions and being acquainted through vse of song can easily iudge if any chaunge be made therein By this were all heresies apprehended at the first and also arraigned So that Stephanus Bishop of Rome ouerthrew the decree of the councell of Carthage for rebaptising wherein Saint Cyprian was president with his owne rule Ecclesia Dei non habet talem consuetudinem So Luther and Zwinglius and the rest of that crewe were at the first appearing branded by this note for heretikes ANSVVERE THis is the same fallacie with the former applyed another way for as in the last motiue you haue assured the Church of an infallible meanes to define all truth so in this you secure her members likewise of a power with facilitie to discerne heretikes by argument drawen from the generall prouidence of God extending it selfe to all creatures but most of all to his children In which ground there is some truth but entwined with some errours For as in other creatures the diuine prouidence is verie bountifull for the preseruation of their seuerall beings against iniurie and daungers yet for all the power of nature in senceles things or the iudgment of sense in the vnreasonable or the benefit of reason in men they be notwithstanding oftentimes subiect aswell to the pray and violence as to the crafte and deceit of others so is it in the professours of christian faith vnto whom God hath reuealed a meanes to preserue their spirituall being in this state militant more certaine and far more sufficient for them then he hath giuen to any other yet not with such ease facilitie to be enioyed as in this motiue you indeuour to perswade For albeit the Scripture hath not been wanting in describing heretikes so plainly as by way of prophecie could possibly be expressed yet are they not thereby presently knowne vpon the first appearance nor can the thickest conceites so easily iudge of them If you take your markes as you say from their apparell fashion or outward carriage then a sheeps skin drawen ouer a woolfe will easily deceaue you their outward apparance will in euery respect seeme holy and innocent as the sheepe of Christ. Therefore is there neede of a serpents wisedome to discerne them and not that onely but also of diligence and watchfulnesse to espie them For as they come in sheeps skins so come they priuily as Saint Peter noteth in the place by you first mencioned There shalbe false teachers who priuilie shall bring in damnable heresies Which word though it carie the emphasis of the sentence yet is it by you wisely omitted happily because you thought it a note of an heretike not so well beseeming Martin Luther who came not so priuily I wis but open inough and in his owne liknes contrarie to the common fashion of heretikes who first put on a sheepes skin and then creepe into the flock the easier to deceiue Wherefore when that prophecie is fufilled which you haue so fitted vnto these times concerning the doctrine of many false Christs where the bodie is thither will the Eagles resort not owles or bussards but such as haue a quicke eye of faith to discerne the Lord and the swift wing of deuotiō to fly vnto him Nay y e delusions of heresies shal thē grow so strong as nothing shall be able to withstand them but only the eternall election of God For if it were possible the verie elect should be deceiued A small number God knowes in compare of that glorious multitude you so boast of in your fifth motiue yet it seemes these fewe must stand when many great troupes are caried with the doctrine of false Christs Ecce hic ecce illic But these difficulties seeme nothing vnto you who can imagine a direction so plaine against
it is subiect to errour being not able so steadily to looke backe frō euery conclusion to the first ground so the minds of Christian men holding the same commō grounds by them vnfolding difficulties and from them raising conclusiōs according to the variety of iudgements and apprehensions doe shape so many formes of opinions and controuersies of religion Thus farre I hope we haue gone hand in hand without crosse or variance in any poynt at all It remaines them since the vnderstanding euen of a christian man is weake and vnstable in his discourse and apprehension that we seeke the meanes to establish and confirme the same so far forth as may stay the conscience of one studious of truth in matters of religion Your aduise is that notwithstanding all truth in controuersie of faith be grounded chiefely vpon scripture yet the sence of scripture being diuersly taken by diuers therefore to vs vncertaine the question at last must be remoued from the text to the interpretour from the scripture to the men God forbid the question should euer be remoued from the ground of truth which truth is contained in the first principles which principles be euidently expressed in scripture not diuersly taken but agreed vpon of all Churches As that Christ is come in the flesh Christ is the sonne of the liuing God his second comming to iudgement the resurrection and such like the analogie of which truths is an infallible rule for expounding more obscure places and a sure ground to build vpon These principles being not doubtfull in varietie of apprehensions like other places of greater difficultie there is no shew of reason why a christians mans mind should in any controuersie be remoued from them no more then naturall reason will in any case forsake her common grounds notwithstanding any sect of Philosophers whatsoeuer but still labour to trie and examine all opinions by her first rules Thus much I will presume vpon as graunted if any exceptiō be taken I appeale to your own words It is best to goe aside and single out the two grand originals and foundations from the which all the other factions arise that by taking a iust estimat of the strength of either our iudgement may leane to the stronger part I demaund then when your selfe went aside to single out the two grand originals by what rules did you take a iust estimate of the strength of either If religion be to you a matter of conscience you must needes confesse that your rules of reason or religion or both did sway your mind and make your iudgement leane as you thinke to the stronger part So that euen by your own euidence that last remoue of the question from the text to the interpreter from the scripture to the men if it cary any shew of truth it must be interpreted verie tenderly First you meane not frō that plaine scripture wherein the first principles bee euidently authorized but onely from those obscure textes whose sence is doubtfull to vs in such varietie of apprehensions Secondly the remoue is not made from the scripture altogether to the men but so as still we keepe our sure footing vpon the first grounds in the strength and euidence wherof diuine truth both in it selfe and to vs is euermore established Now further to proceede because the Apostle commaunds vs not alwaies to sticke in our first principles we must needes confesse that the vnderstanding of priuat men vnsteedie in discourse and feeble in iudging such high and waightie matters is of it selfe aswell in expounding scripture as setting downe conclusions subiect to manifould errors and heresies And therefore besides those premised groundes from which we take our rise we must be confirmed by such meanes as Christ hath besides prouided for the members of his Church militant here vpon earth Which meanes are braunched into the assistance of Gods spirit within vs and the testimonie of the Church and holie men of God without vs. These speciall helpes God hath prouided for his Church ouer and aboue humane helpes common to Christians with the sonnes of nature The former of these I meane the assistance of Gods spirit for enlightning our vnderstanding and inabling our iudgments is purchased 1. by feruencie of prayer 2. religious exercise 3. holines of life and 4. studious indeuour Yet notwithstanding because both reason and religion ioyned with humilitie will easily perswade that Gods spirit is more fully resident in holy assemblies then priuat mens braines that spirit is to be suspected of singularitie which will not with all reuerence imbrace the testimonie of the Church So then a Christian man studious of truth doth rest his conscience vpon these three witnesses First the euidence of our first principles expressely propounded in scripture and written in the tables of our heartes by the holy Ghost Secondly the assistance of Gods grace and holy spirit promised to euery faithfull soule for confirming his iudgment so far forth as may leade to happines and performe the dueties of that place whereunto he is called Thirdly the testimonie of the Church and holy men of God And these three agree in one But in your last remoue of the question From the text to the interpreter from the scripture vnto the men passing ouer the two former you haue resolued your selfe wholy vpon the worth merit and authoritie of those which are the expositors So that according to your aduise hauing singled out the graund originals and foundations of our two religions and taking as neere as I can a iust estimate of the strength of either I find the odds three to one of our side For although these three witnesses bee so linked togither as rightly taken they be neuer seuered yet least singling them out one from another we should mistake any wee lay fast hold of all three conferring examining and confirming to our selues one by another You contrariwise leane your selfe and rest your conscience onely vpon the third the testimonie of the Church as vpon an infallible ground of all the rest Which if it proue a broken staffe by your mistaking of it either in taking the testimonie of some portion of the visible Church for the whole catholike or secondly an vnsound part for the sound or thirdly misconceauing the churches of former times it will not only deceiue you but the shiuers thereof wound your erronious and naked conscience which easily may befall such a one as is of no longer time or deeper studie then you and I are well knowne to be MOTIVE THe catholike part for the strength of their interpretation alledge the iudgment of the Church the definitions of councels the consent of fathers the harmonie of Churches the practise of all ages and the rule of Apostolicall tradition left by succession as the light through the heauens The Protestantes bring forth the seuerall founders of their sects Luther Caluin Melancthon and others of that straine whose exposition they cleaue vnto Lay this in the ballance and
which that ancient writer so approued by you doth auere Solus sufficit ad omnia satis superque all reformations of the Church whatsoeuer haue been since or hereafter shalbe must come vnder the name of meere restitutions without addition not instituting any new doctrine but restoring the ancient not creating a new Church as you fondly imagine but reducing the old vnto the primitiue Therefore in this kind there is no need of miracles or prodigious signes seeing our reformers bring no new reuelations of their owne but only make appeales to the iudgement of the primitiue Church desire credit of others no further then they giue euidence of argument drawne from such grounds as be receiued of all hands Then seeing their proceedings be ordinarie what extraordinarie wonders are to be expected Neither was it their desire motion in this reformatiō that the present visible Church should fly the world and leaue her kingdome royaltie but onely this y t it should be purged because reason telleth vs experience hath proued it that the visible Church is not al spirit but some flesh though she be informed by the holy Ghost in her holy and generall assemblies yet she consisteth likewise of earthly fraile sinful men therfore she must of necessity gather some dust in time grow corrupt if she do not clense refine her selfe Wherupon motion was made to the commanders of the Church for the reformation of certaine abuses which being crept in had gotten a head and were growne to that pitch that they became burdensome to the consciences of religious men This complaint being not harkened vnto they perswaded themselues that the backwardnes of their brethren could not be to them a sufficient excuse not to reforme themselues For this cause they protested a separation from their fellowship and communion in those points vntill such time as it should please God to moue their minds so to refine themselues from those corruptions as there might insue conformitie a thing wished and praied for with sighes not to be expressed So that the strength of this your Motiue which makes Martin Luther his fellowes seeme so odious vnto you is resolued into these two questions First whether in his time there were abuses in the Church that required a reformation Secondly reformation being denied vnhoped for whether they were abuses of that nature degree as did bind the conscience of true catholikes not to cōmunicate with others in them Which two points if they be true they cleer our reformers frō all slander suspitiō either of heresy or schisme vntil you haue proued them false this the like generall motiues to this purpose be mere shadows without substance of no value or force at all THE SIXTH MOTIVE AS the cause is the paterne of the effects vpon which ground Saint Paul from the vnitie of Gods Church buildeth the vnitie of faith so may we go backwards from the defference of effects to denie the affinitie of the cause and from the impossibilitie of vnion in faith take away the possibilitie of dependance vpon God Such is the religion of the protestants which hath no certaine principle of vnitie and therefore lacketh the cognisance whereby true religion is knowne For where there is not an infallible authoritie which doth iudge and decide controuersies by remouing all actions of doubt and reply and vnto which absolute obedience is tied there must needs be varietie of iudgements and opinions which cannot be tied in one knot For all vnitie in particulars proceedeth from the vnitie of some cause wherein all agree But there is no such infallible authoritie the iudge of controuersies besides the voice of the Church which the protestants either put altogether to silence or else obey so farre as they please For the scriptures whom they haue erected to be iudges as rebels that put downe all iudges and pretend to be ruled onely by the law cannot alone supply this place to take away all occasionof controuersies And if there were no other argument their owne irreconcilable quarrels in so manifold differences among themselues might suffice to stop their mouthes herein For as diuers parcels of silke of deeper or lighter ground dipped by the Dyar in the same liquour drink in a seuerall tincture of colour according to their former varietie so they that diue in the letter of the holy scripture according as their iudgements are before stained with preiudice of one or other opinion come forth againe not in vnity of minds but in the same differences as they went in more or lesse Or as in the miracle of tongues giuen to the Apostles when many auditors of diuers languages came to heare them although the same men could speake no more but one idiome at once yet the seuerall auditours comprehended them as if they had spoken in the proprietie of their speech so when many of diuers languages in religion come to heare some one of the Apostles speaking in the scripture although the author vse onely the voice of the truth yet euery sundrie faction doth conceiue him as speaking in the seuerall confusion of their opinions Neither can they comfort themselues with any hope to see these diuerse opinions wound vp in one confession For as the vnitie in conclusion in logick cannot be without the vnitie of the medium so they cannot meete in that middle way which should bring them into peace able cōposition vnlesse they returne to the Church For all grant there is no way to accomplish it without a councell but who shall call it when there is none whom they all obey How many factions shall assemble out of what sect shall the president be chosen what number of suffrages shall there be on euery side what rule shall bee allowed for the interpretation of the scriptures And if all this were by a dreame imagined yet the authoritie of the Canons and conclusions shall not be so authenticall but that any priuate head may refuse it if in his owne singularity he thinke it disagreeing from the scripture so desperate is the possibilitie of vnion among them that hope which imagineth impossible things cannot possibly imagine it ANSVVERE AS euery defect and imperfection tendeth vnto dissolution so the good estate of euery bodie aswell politicke and mistical as natural doth consist in the vnity of the whole harmonie of the parts amongst themselues Therfore seeing the band of vnitie knitting many members into one whole maketh an entire body that societie is of all others conceiued to be most absolute which hath attained to the greatest perfection of vnitie Which kind of reason moued the Philosopher to giue the preeminence to a Monarchy before other simple formes So the Apostle in the place whence you take your rise from the vnitie of Gods Church doth build the vnity of faith as also the vnity of spirit in the bond of peace vrging a preseruation and increase of the same as a thing most perfecting the