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ground_n apostle_n faith_n scripture_n 1,714 5 6.0562 4 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A11532 A conference betvvixt a mother a devout recusant, and her sonne a zealous protestant seeking by humble and dutifull satisfaction to winne her vnto the trueth, and publike worship of god established nowe in England. Gathered by him whose hearts desire is, that all may come to the knowledge of God, and be saued.; Conference betwixt a mother a devout recusant, and her sonne a zealous protestant. Savage, Francis, d. 1638. 1600 (1600) STC 21781; ESTC S106433 62,438 140

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the_o tare_n be_v cast_v into_o the_o good_a field_n shall_v not_o a_o white_a head_n be_v take_v so_o to_o be_v unless_o the_o precise_a beginning_n of_o white_a hair_n be_v know_v a_o chink_n in_o a_o wall_n be_v spy_v and_o mend_v but_o the_o beginning_n usual_o unknown_a when_o the_o scribe_n and_o pharisee_n have_v corrupt_v religion_n what_o book_n do_v we_o read_v to_o be_v write_v against_o they_o how_o able_a be_v joseph_n simeon_n marie_n anna_n etc._n etc._n to_o confute_v they_o falshood_n be_v falsehood_n though_o no_o man_n write_v against_o it_o and_o therefore_o let_v the_o doctrine_n of_o popery_n he_o sift_v whether_o it_o be_v sound_a or_o no_o and_o the_o beginning_n let_v go_v of_o which_o yet_o you_o see_v what_o i_o have_v say_v m._n son_n you_o have_v say_v much_o and_o still_o i_o wish_v that_o one_o of_o we_o will_v hear_v another_o more_o than_o we_o do_v i_o see_v i_o see_v it_o be_v profitable_a god_n have_v command_v mean_n and_o like_v mean_n s._n mother_n many_o a_o good_a man_n and_o woman_n that_o now_o live_v in_o ignorance_n will_v hear_v and_o read_v but_o that_o they_o be_v so_o terrify_v in_o hole_n and_o corner_n by_o false_a charmer_n under_o the_o pain_n of_o excommunication_n not_o to_o do_v it_o nor_o to_o confer_v with_o any_o yea_o they_o be_v often_o snare_v with_o a_o oath_n not_o to_o do_v it_o and_o all_o to_o keep_v they_o in_o darkness_n because_o the_o hood_a hawk_n be_v quiet_a and_o samson_n when_o his_o eye_n be_v out_o may_v be_v mock_v and_o use_v at_o will_n but_o the_o lord_n be_v able_a to_o touch_v his_o people_n heart_n to_o think_v of_o their_o craft_n and_o cast_v from_o they_o such_o deceitful_a work_n which_o i_o beseech_v he_o to_o do_v even_o with_o speed_n for_o the_o impiety_n and_o boldness_n of_o these_o wicked_a charmer_n be_v great_a and_o worthy_o reproove_v by_o s._n hierome_n who_o say_v of_o some_o in_o his_o time_n that_o they_o do_v tantam_fw-la sibi_fw-la assumere_fw-la authoritatem_fw-la 3._o in_o esai_n l._n 9_o c._n 3._o ut_fw-la sive_fw-la dextra_fw-la docerent_fw-la sive_fw-la sinistra_fw-la id_fw-la est_fw-la sive_fw-la bona_fw-la sive_fw-la malanolint_fw-la discipulos_fw-la ratione_fw-la discutere_fw-la sed_fw-la se_fw-la praecessores_fw-la sequi_fw-la some_o do_v take_v such_o authority_n upon_o they_o that_o whether_o they_o teach_v right_a or_o wrong_n good_a or_o bad_a they_o will_v not_o have_v their_o auditor_n to_o examine_v it_o but_o to_o follow_v they_o m._n yea_o but_o it_o be_v a_o great_a matter_n son_n in_o our_o eye_n that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v always_o be_v a_o visible_a state_n maintain_v that_o doctrine_n visible_a i_o say_v and_o still_o appear_v and_o know_v whereas_o your_o church_n before_o luther_n time_n either_o be_v not_o at_o all_o or_o be_v hide_v as_o some_o say_v and_o your_o doctrine_n not_o receive_v by_o public_a authority_n s._n but_o good_a mother_n you_o know_v truth_n be_v truth_n although_o the_o whole_a world_n be_v set_v against_o it_o and_o therefore_o still_o i_o wish_v your_o eye_n bend_v not_o upon_o the_o favour_n of_o the_o world_n for_o that_o be_v common_o against_o the_o good_a and_o for_o the_o bad_a but_o upon_o the_o face_n of_o almighty_a god_n his_o good_a pleasure_n and_o the_o rule_n thereof_o his_o word_n and_o then_o for_o answer_v to_o this_o object_v which_o seem_v so_o strong_a a_o bulwark_n in_o the_o judgement_n of_o many_o papist_n ●●sible_a ●●e_z &_o ●_o church_n 〈◊〉_d nor_o always_o ●●sible_a first_o i_o say_v that_o the_o true_a church_n be_v not_o always_o visible_a in_o the_o world_n as_o they_o take_v visible_a that_o be_v glorious_a in_o credit_n and_o favour_n support_v by_o authority_n of_o worldly_a power_n so_o that_o all_o people_n may_v know_v whether_o to_o resort_v unto_o it_o for_o the_o church_n be_v either_o catholic_a 1_o universal_a or_o particular_a the_o catholic_a or_o universal_a church_n can_v be_v see_v and_o therefore_o we_o believe_v it_o as_o a_o article_n of_o our_o faith_n credo_fw-la sanctam_fw-la ecclesiam_fw-la catholicam_fw-la apost_n symb._n apost_n i_o believe_v that_o there_o be_v a_o holy_a catholic_a church_n not_o as_o some_o will_v have_v it_o i_o give_v credit_n to_o the_o church_n and_o believe_v what_o soever_o it_o teach_v for_o than_o it_o shall_v be_v credo_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la not_z credo_fw-la ecclesiam_fw-la 2d_o sentent_fw-fr l._n 3._o distinct_a 2d_o there_o be_v great_a difference_n say_v p._n lombard_n follow_v s._n austen_n betwixt_o credere_fw-la deum_fw-la credere_fw-la deo_fw-la and_o creaere_n in_o deum_fw-la the_o first_o be_v to_o believe_v that_o there_o be_v a_o god_n the_o second_o to_o give_v credance_n unto_o god_n and_o to_o believe_v all_o that_o t●u_n which_o he_o speak_v the_o three_o to_o rely_v upon_o god_n and_o to_o put_v our_o confidence_n in_o he_o for_o protection_n and_o blessing_n so_o doubtless_o may_v i_o say_v that_o there_o be_v a_o apparent_a 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not_o be_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o article_n except_o we_o will_v both_o confound_v these_o two_o phrase_n credere_fw-la eccslesiam_fw-la and_o credere_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la so_o accurate_o distinguish_v by_o the_o master_n of_o the_o sentence_n and_o s._n augustin_n and_o make_v the_o word_n of_o man_n equal_a with_o god_n word_n the_o three_o credere_fw-la in_o ecclesiam_fw-la catholicam_fw-la be_v whole_o to_o depend_v upon_o the_o catholic_a church_n which_o we_o can_v make_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o article_n without_o violence_n to_o the_o word_n and_o great_a blasphemy_n to_o god_n thus_o much_o by_o the_o way_n and_o by_o your_o gentle_a patience_n good_a mother_n of_o this_o article_n and_o the_o true_a meaning_n of_o it_o in_o general_a because_o the_o mistake_n thereof_o have_v mislead_v some_o into_o error_n now_o to_o return_v see_v we_o believe_v the_o universal_a or_o catholic_a church_n it_o follow_v that_o it_o can_v not_o be_v see_v 11.1_o ●eb_fw-mi 11.1_o for_o faith_n as_o the_o apostle_n write_v be_v the_o ground_n of_o thing_n hope_v for_o and_o the_o evidence_n of_o thing_n not_o see_v not_o see_v i_o say_v again_o and_o entreat_v you_o to_o mark_v the_o word_n and_o that_o a_o particular_a church_n be_v not_o always_o see_v the_o story_n of_o elias_n proove_v pregnant_o who_o can_v not_o see_v one_o and_o therefore_o be_v weary_a of_o his_o life_n 19.18_o ●ing_v 19.18_o whereas_o god_n have_v keep_v unto_o himself_o even_o then_o when_o he_o complain_v and_o in_o that_o place_n where_o he_o live_v yea_o in_o the_o midst_n of_o that_o people_n of_o who_o he_o complain_v 7000._o that_o have_v not_o bow_v their_o knee_n unto_o ball._n what_o may_v we_o think_v of_o these_o 7000._o among_o the_o ten_o trike_n of_o israel_n be_v they_o not_o god_n people_n worship_v he_o in_o spirit_n and_o in_o truth_n or_o be_v not_o the_o number_n sufficiet_fw-la to_o make_v a_o church_n sure_o the_o number_n may_v well_o make_v seven_o glorious_a particular_a church_n 1●_n rom._n 1●_n and_o the_o apostle_n say_v of_o they_o first_o that_o god_n have_v keep_v they_o to_o himself_o second_o that_o they_o be_v his_o people_n three_o that_o he_o know_v they_o before_o to_o wit_n in_o his_o eternal_a council_n and_o almighty_a god_n himself_o to_o his_o prophet_n acknowledge_v they_o as_o his_o belove_a and_o promise_v his_o protection_n unto_o they_o that_o they_o shall_v be_v safe_o keep_v reason_n 18._o 1._o reg._n c._n 19_o 1●.17_n &_o 18._o i_o suppose_v sufficient_a both_o for_o number_n and_o weight_n to_o prove_v that_o god_n have_v his_o church_n in_o that_o place_n and_o at_o that_o self_n same_o time_n when_o &_o where_o the_o prophet_n elias_n complain_v for_o want_v of_o a_o church_n and_o fellow_n member_n to_o worship_n god_n with_o he_o o_o if_o so_o many_o so_o dear_a unto_o god_n at_o one_o time_n in_o one_o country_n worship_v the_o true_a god_n true_o by_o the_o testimony_n of_o
this_o father_n that_o i_o name_v unto_o you_o say_v they_o write_v that_o which_o they_o deliver_v and_o they_o write_v it_o by_o the_o will_n of_o god_n as_o not_o trust_v tradition_n unwritten_a and_o they_o write_v it_o to_o be_v for_o ever_o the_o ground_n of_o our_o faith_n note_v that_o unwritten_a tradition_n may_v not_o be_v the_o ground_n because_o it_o be_v uncertain_a and_o full_a of_o imperfection_n as_o i_o can_v show_v you_o if_o we_o be_v to_o speak_v of_o that_o matter_n therefore_o see_v this_o which_o be_v write_v be_v certain_o and_o assure_o that_o which_o they_o deliver_v and_o we_o hold_v nothing_o but_o that_o which_o be_v agreeable_a to_o this_o which_o be_v write_v you_o see_v it_o be_v most_o plain_a that_o we_o hold_v nothing_o but_o that_o which_o the_o apostle_n themselves_o deliver_v and_o so_o our_o faith_n the_o old_a faith_n which_o be_v from_o the_o beginning_n and_o first_o m._n sure_o if_o you_o hold_v nothing_o but_o that_o which_o be_v write_v it_o be_v certain_a that_o that_o which_o be_v write_v be_v deliver_v by_o the_o apostle_n and_o so_o it_o follow_v that_o you_o hold_v nothing_o but_o that_o which_o be_v deliver_v by_o the_o apostle_n and_o prophet_n and_o therefore_o your_o faith_n old_a indeed_o and_o not_o to_o be_v reject_v and_o for_o tradition_n although_o we_o may_v be_v tell_v that_o this_o and_o that_o be_v deliver_v by_o the_o apostle_n and_o their_o successor_n and_o so_o by_o they_o to_o they_o again_o to_o this_o day_n yet_o i_o must_v needs_o confess_v that_o be_v not_o so_o manifest_a and_o plain_a as_o which_o be_v write_v neither_o do_v it_o yield_v such_o contentment_n to_o my_o conscience_n but_o i_o can_v not_o tell_v what_o to_o say_v it_o be_v a_o sure_a and_o steadfast_a way_n to_o trust_v to_o that_o which_o be_v write_v rather_o than_o to_o that_o which_o be_v report_v and_o yet_o i_o be_o loath_a ●o_o offend_v you_o shall_v give_v i_o leave_v to_o pause_v &_o think_v more_o of_o it_o s._n yea_o dear_a mother_n and_o with_o the_o hart_n of_o a_o dutiful_a child_n i_o say_v the_o father_n of_o our_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n lighten_v the_o eye_n of_o your_o understanding_n in_o all_o thing_n to_o the_o glory_n of_o his_o great_a name_n and_o your_o eternal_a comfort_n but_o be_v you_o assure_v in_o this_o that_o we_o hold_v nothing_o as_o needful_a to_o our_o salvation_n but_o that_o which_o be_v write_v in_o express_a word_n or_o by_o sure_a and_o plain_a collection_n and_o therefore_o make_v the_o consequence_n as_o the_o lord_n shall_v direct_v you_o m._n how_o then_o come_v it_o to_o pass_v that_o your_o religion_n be_v still_o call_v new_a new_a s._n even_o as_o i_o tell_v you_o before_o it_o be_v one_o of_o satan_n trick_n to_o discredit_v truth_n and_o have_v in_o all_o time_n be_v use_v of_o he_o but_o as_o then_o yourself_o collect_v by_o that_o which_o i_o allege_v that_o it_o be_v not_o safe_a to_o be_v lead_v by_o term_n and_o name_n without_o due_a consider_v how_o just_o and_o true_o they_o be_v give_v so_o i_o beseech_v you_o do_v here_o again_o and_o be_v not_o move_v with_o the_o name_n for_o questionless_a there_o can_v nothing_o be_v more_o spiteful_o speak_v against_o the_o religion_n of_o god_n then_o to_o accuse_v it_o of_o novelty_n as_o a_o matter_n late_o find_v out_o for_o as_o there_o can_v be_v no_o change_n in_o god_n himself_o so_o ought_v there_o be_v no_o change_n in_o his_o religion_n yet_o still_o i_o say_v satan_n have_v take_v this_o course_n even_o from_o the_o beginning_n to_o call_v truth_n new_a which_o indeed_o be_v not_o only_o of_o great_a antiquity_n but_o also_o from_o everlasting_a that_o ungracious_a &_o blood_n thirsty_a haman_n when_o he_o seek_v to_o procure_v the_o king_n assuerus_n his_o dspleasure_n against_o the_o jew_n use_v this_o slander_n against_o they_o of_o novelty_n tell_v the_o king_n that_o he_o have_v in_o his_o domion_n a_o kind_n of_o people_n that_o use_v certain_a new_a law_n of_o their_o own_o etc._n etc._n 1●_n act._n 1●_n when_o paul_n also_o begin_v first_o to_o preach_v and_o expound_v the_o gospel_n at_o athens_n he_o be_v call_v a_o tidings-bringer_n of_o new_a god_n that_o be_v of_o a_o new_a religion_n for_o say_v the_o athenian_n may_v we_o not_o know_v of_o thou_o what_o new_a doctrine_n this_o be_v origen_n again_o tell_v we_o of_o celsus_n that_o when_o he_o write_v of_o set_a purpofe_n against_o christ_n to_o the_o end_n he_o may_v scornful_o scosse_v at_o the_o gospel_n he_o accuse_v it_o of_o novelty_n and_o say_v c●lsum_fw-la orig._n con●a_fw-la c●lsum_fw-la what_o have_v god_n after_o so_o many_o age_n now_o at_o last_o bethink_v himself_o who_o vile_a blasphemy_n that_o ancient_a father_n in_o his_o book_n write_v against_o he_o answer_v eusebius_n also_o say_v that_o the_o christian_a religion_n from_o the_o beginnnig_n for_o very_a spite_n be_v call_v new_a and_o strange_a 4._o euseb_n l._n 1_o c._n 4._o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d sentence_n be_v give_v of_o condemnation_n that_o s._n audrewe_n shall_v be_v crucify_v for_o teach_v and_o enterprise_v a_o new_a sect_n and_o take_v away_o the_o religion_n of_o their_o god_n shall_v we_o then_o be_v move_v with_o this_o term_n and_o carry_v away_o with_o this_o name_n no_o god_n forbid_v these_o example_n be_v a_o fair_a warning_n for_o we_o to_o take_v heed_n of_o that_o lightness_n and_o rashness_n let_v the_o devil_n rage_n against_o truth_n with_o what_o name_v god_n shall_v suffer_v he_o and_o his_o member_n yet_o this_o shall_v ever_o stand_v that_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n be_v elder_a than_o any_o idolatry_n or_o superstition_n of_o the_o gentile_n that_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o gospel_n be_v preach_v in_o paradise_n by_o god_n himself_o say_v the_o seed_n of_o the_o woman_n shall_v bruise_v the_o serpent_n head_n that_o the_o writing_n of_o moses_n be_v elder_a the_o any_o writing_n of_o the_o gentile_n the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o apostle_n 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