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ground_n apostle_n doctrine_n faith_n 1,496 5 5.4771 4 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A63200 A tryall of the nevv-church vvay in New-England and in old ... by that learned and godly minister of Christ, John Ball of Whitmore ; penned a little before his death and sent over to the New England ministers, anno 1637, as a reply to an answer of theirs in justification of the said positions ... ; now published ... by William Rathband and Simeon Ash. Ball, John, 1585-1640.; Rathband, William, d. 1695.; Ashe, Simeon, d. 1662. Letter of many ministers in old England requesting the judgement of their reverend bretheren in New England. 1644 (1644) Wing T2229; ESTC R20975 106,044 100

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keep_v and_o walk_v by_o that_o be_v religious_o to_o be_v observe_v but_o for_o man_n to_o set_v up_o that_o as_o a_o necessary_a order_n which_o god_n never_o allow_v approve_a or_o command_v be_v great_a presumption_n now_o the_o lord_n have_v not_o ordain_v that_o a_o man_n shall_v be_v a_o set_a member_n of_o a_o particular_a society_n or_o body_n politic_a of_o faithful_a people_n join_v together_o in_o spiritual_a church-fellowship_n by_o covenant_n before_o he_o be_v admit_v unto_o the_o lord_n supper_n or_o that_o the_o parent_n shall_v be_v actual_a visible_a set_a member_n of_o some_o particular_a distinct_a body_n before_o their_o child_n be_v baptize_v they_o that_o believe_v in_o jesus_n christ_n have_v receive_v the_o word_n of_o promise_n and_o walk_v therein_o they_o and_o their_o child_n be_v within_o the_o covenant_n and_o have_v right_a and_o title_n to_o the_o seal_n of_o the_o covenant_n but_o in_o their_o order_n the_o infant_n to_o baptism_n parent_n baptize_v 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profess_v the_o true_a and_o entire_a doctrine_n of_o faith_n and_o salvation_n in_o respect_n of_o they_o that_o hold_v and_o profess_v the_o same_o faith_n of_o christ_n and_o worship_n god_n according_a to_o his_o will_n whereupon_o it_o follow_v that_o neither_o particular_a person_n nor_o particular_a guide_n nor_o particular_a church_n be_v to_o work_v as_o several_a divide_a body_n by_o themselves_o but_o be_v to_o teach_v and_o be_v teach_v and_o to_o do_v all_o other_o duty_n as_o part_n conjoin_v to_o the_o whole_a and_o member_n of_o the_o same_o flock_n or_o society_n in_o general_a and_o so_o believer_n profess_v the_o faith_n and_o walk_v in_o holiness_n may_v and_o aught_o to_o be_v admit_v to_o the_o seal_n as_o actual_a member_n of_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n and_o sheep_n of_o his_o pasture_n though_o not_o set_v member_n of_o one_o congregationall_a church_n 4._o not_o to_o insist_v upon_o this_o here_o that_o it_o have_v and_o may_v fall_v out_o many_o time_n through_o ignorance_n rashness_n or_o pride_n of_o a_o prevail_a faction_n in_o the_o church_n that_o the_o true_a member_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n and_o the_o best_a member_n of_o the_o orthodox_n visible_a flock_n or_o church_n of_o christ_n may_v be_v no_o actual_a member_n of_o any_o distinct_a society_n and_o shall_v they_o for_o this_o be_v account_v man_n out_o of_o covenant_n and_o their_o posterity_n be_v esteem_v alien_n and_o stranger_n but_o if_o they_o be_v in_o covenant_n then_o be_v they_o holy_a in_o respect_n of_o the_o covenant_n and_o their_o child_n holy_a as_o pertain_v to_o the_o covenant_n 92._o and_o have_v right_a to_o the_o sacrament_n of_o initiation_n thus_o mr._n rob._n frame_v the_o argument_n the_o sacrament_n of_o baptism_n be_v to_o be_v administer_v by_o christ_n appointment_n 19_o and_o the_o apostle_n example_n only_o to_o such_o as_o be_v external_o 39_o and_o so_o far_o as_o man_n can_v judge_v teach_v and_o make_v disciple_n do_v receive_v the_o word_n glad_o do_v believe_v and_o so_o profess_v have_v receive_v the_o holy_a ghost_n and_o to_o their_o seed_n 19_o and_o thus_o the_o church_n of_o god_n ever_o since_o the_o apostle_n day_n understand_v the_o covenant_n and_o promise_n and_o their_o practice_n in_o receive_v believer_n and_o their_o seed_n to_o the_o seal_n of_o the_o covenant_n be_v answerable_a as_o may_v be_v show_v at_o large_a if_o it_o be_v not_o a_o thing_n confess_v hereunto_o you_o answer_v answer_n where_o the_o holy_a ghost_n be_v give_v and_o receive_v which_o be_v the_o case_n of_o the_o centurion_n and_o where_o faith_n be_v profess_v according_a to_o god_n ordinance_n which_o be_v the_o case_n of_o the_o rest_n there_o none_o may_v hinder_v they_o from_o be_v baptize_v viz._n by_o such_o as_o have_v power_n to_o baptise_v they_o in_o the_o instance_n give_v baptism_n be_v administer_v either_o by_o apostle_n or_o evangelist_n not_o ordinary_a pastor_n the_o person_n baptize_v if_o they_o be_v member_n of_o church_n have_v a_o right_a to_o baptism_n in_o their_o state_n and_o the_o apostle_n be_v officer_n of_o all_o church_n may_v dispense_v the_o seal_n to_o they_o where_o ever_o they_o come_v which_o yet_o will_v not_o warrant_v ordinary_a officer_n to_o do_v the_o same_o nor_o be_v it_o improbable_a but_o that_o all_o these_o be_v in_o church-order_n aret._n on_o act._n 18._o 1._o be_v of_o opinion_n that_o the_o centurion_n have_v a_o constitute_v church_n in_o his_o house_n 27._o the_o eunuch_n come_v to_o jerusalem_n to_o worship_n argue_v he_o to_o be_v a_o proselyte_n and_o member_n of_o the_o jewish_a church_n not_o yet_o dissolve_v and_o therefore_o upon_o the_o profession_n of_o the_o christian_a faith_n capable_a of_o church_n privilege_n at_o that_o time_n as_o for_o lydia_n and_o the_o jailer_n it_o appear_v that_o in_o the_o begin_n of_o the_o gospel_n there_o be_v a_o church_n at_o philippi_n which_o communicate_v with_o paul_n as_o concern_v give_v and_o receive_v 15._o as_o he_o express_o say_v before_o his_o departure_n be_v from_o macedonia_n which_o departure_n be_v immediate_o upon_o the_o gaylors_n conversion_n in_o which_o respect_n what_o shall_v hinder_v that_o lydia_n and_o the_o jailer_n shall_v first_o be_v join_v to_o the_o church_n and_o then_o to_o be_v baptize_v though_o it_o be_v not_o mention_v in_o that_o story_n as_o neither_o there_o be_v mention_n of_o a_o christian_a church_n which_o paul_n mention_v in_o his_o epistle_n to_o the_o philippian_n at_o least_o it_o be_v probable_a that_o lydia_n be_v a_o member_n of_o the_o jewish_a church_n because_o she_o be_v say_v to_o be_v one_o that_o worship_v god_n but_o if_o any_o man_n think_v they_o be_v not_o member_n of_o any_o church_n yet_o baptize_v though_o we_o see_v not_o how_o it_o will_v be_v prove_v yet_o if_o it_o be_v so_o the_o object_n do_v no_o whit_n weaken_v the_o argument_n which_o speak_v of_o the_o ordinary_a dispensation_n of_o the_o seal_n and_o not_o of_o what_o be_v do_v in_o a_o extraordinary_a way_n so_o that_o suppose_v that_o in_o the_o case_n allege_v baptism_n dispense_v to_o some_o that_o be_v not_o in_o church-fellowship_n yet_o the_o example_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o evangelist_n in_o so_o do_v will_v not_o warrant_v ordinary_a pastor_n to_o do_v the_o like_a the_o reason_n of_o the_o difference_n why_o apostle_n and_o evangelist_n may_v administer_v baptism_n out_o of_o church-order_n whereas_o pastor_n and_o teacher_n may_v not_o be_v double_a 1._o because_o their_o call_n give_v they_o illimited_a power_n over_o all_o man_n especial_o christian_n wheresoever_o they_o come_v but_o we_o do_v not_o find_v that_o ordinary_a pastor_n and_o teacher_n can_v do_v a_o act_n of_o power_n but_o only_o over_o their_o own_o church_n which_o have_v call_v they_o to_o watch_v over_o they_o in_o the_o lord_n 2._o because_o they_o be_v assist_v with_o a_o immediate_a direction_n and_o guidance_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n in_o the_o place_n of_o their_o administration_n in_o the_o case_n allege_v but_o ordinary_a church-officer_n be_v to_o walk_v according_a to_o ordinary_a rule_n of_o the_o scripture_n in_o the_o dispensation_n of_o the_o seal_n and_o not_o to_o expect_v immediate_a inspiration_n and_o extraordinary_a revelation_n for_o their_o help_n in_o such_o case_n this_o difference_n between_o apostle_n and_o ordinary_a church-officer_n must_v needs_o be_v acknowledge_v or_o otherwise_o a_o man_n may_v from_o their_o example_n justify_v baptism_n in_o private_a house_n reply_n this_o answer_n stand_v of_o many_o part_n wherein_o thing_n doubtful_a be_v affirm_v and_o that_o which_o more_o weaken_v the_o force_n of_o the_o consideration_n before_o allege_v and_o the_o answer_n itself_o then_o of_o the_o reason_n whereunto_o it_o be_v apply_v for_o first_o if_o where_o the_o holy_a ghost_n be_v give_v and_o receive_v and_o where_o faith_n be_v profess_v according_a to_o god_n ordinance_n there_o none_o may_v hinder_v they_o from_o be_v baptize_v viz._n by_o such_o as_o have_v power_n to_o baptize_v they_o then_o either_o man_n that_o have_v receive_v the_o holy_a ghost_n and_o profess_v the_o faith_n be_v member_n of_o the_o church_n or_o baptism_n be_v not_o a_o privilege_n of_o the_o church_n than_o it_o be_v not_o essential_a to_o the_o first_o institution_n of_o baptism_n that_o it_o shall_v be_v dispense_v to_o none_o but_o such_o as_o be_v enter_v into_o church-fellowship_n or_o be_v set_v member_n of_o a_o congregationall_a assembly_n then_o the_o apostle_n in_o dispense_n the_o seal_n unto_o such_o or_o command_v they_o to_o be_v dispense_v do_v walk_v according_a to_o the_o rule_n of_o scripture_n and_o upon_o ground_n common_a to_o they_o and_o we_o viz._n they_o admit_v they_o unto_o the_o sacrament_n who_o have_v right_a and_o interest_n to_o they_o according_a to_o the_o mind_n and_o pleasure_n of_o the_o institutor_n not_o extraordinary_o reveal_v beside_o the_o common_a rule_n or_o by_o special_a dispensation_n and_o prerogative_n except_v from_o the_o common_a rule_n but_o make_v know_v in_o the_o institution_n itself_o and_o then_o the_o difficulty_n remain_v be_v only_o this_o whether_o a_o pastor_n or_o teacher_n have_v authority_n from_o christ_n to_o dispense_v the_o seal_n of_o the_o covenant_n to_o one_o who_o have_v right_a and_o title_n to_o they_o and_o do_v orderly_o desire_v that_o benefit_n because_o he_o be_v not_o as_o yet_o receive_v as_o a_o set_a member_n of_o that_o particular_a society_n which_o your_o practice_n in_o admit_v of_o set_a member_n of_o other_o congregation_n unto_o the_o seal_n do_v manifest_o convince_v for_o if_o both_o have_v equal_a interest_n unto_o the_o seal_n the_o pastor_n upon_o lawful_a suit_n and_o request_n have_v equal_a authority_n to_o receive_v the_o one_o as_o well_o as_o the_o other_o second_o in_o the_o particular_a instance_n give_v
it_o be_v not_o probable_a that_o baptism_n be_v evermore_o administer_v by_o apostle_n or_o evangelist_n for_o before_o the_o death_n of_o christ_n the_o disciple_n baptize_v when_o they_o be_v proper_o neither_o apostle_n nor_o evangelist_n 27._o after_o the_o death_n of_o christ_n not_o to_o insist_v upon_o conjecture_n whether_o any_o assist_v the_o apostle_n in_o the_o baptise_v of_o the_o first_o three_o thousand_o convert_v it_o be_v not_o certain_a whether_o peter_n baptize_v cornelius_n and_o his_o family_n 48._o or_o command_v other_o then_o present_a with_o he_o to_o baptize_v they_o 260._o the_o word_n may_v be_v read_v et_fw-la jussit_fw-la eos_fw-la baptizari_fw-la in_o nomine_fw-la domini_fw-la syr._n &_o arab._n praecepit_fw-la eye_v ut_fw-la baptizarentur_fw-la the_o interlineary_a gloss_n leave_v it_o doubtful_a associis_fw-la suis_fw-la vel_fw-la a_o seipso_fw-la other_o be_v of_o opinion_n that_o peter_n do_v baptize_v they_o himself_o it_o can_v be_v prove_v that_o philip_n and_o ananias_n be_v both_o evangelist_n 18._o when_o the_o one_o baptize_v the_o samaritan_n and_o the_o eunuch_n 17._o the_o other_o paul_n paul_n himself_o baptize_v but_o a_o few_o as_o he_o testify_v of_o himself_o and_o reason_n to_o convince_v that_o other_o convert_v by_o his_o preach_n be_v baptize_v by_o evangelist_n we_o know_v not_o any_o and_o if_o philip_n ananias_n and_o other_o may_v baptize_v such_o as_o have_v right_a and_o title_n to_o the_o seal_n be_v as_o yet_o no_o set_n member_n of_o any_o particular_a congregation_n and_o a_o congregation_n destitute_a of_o their_o proper_a pastor_n may_v desire_v another_o to_o baptize_v their_o infant_n and_o dispense_v the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o supper_n to_o they_o in_o that_o their_o necessity_n and_o if_o the_o member_n of_o one_o congregation_n may_v lawful_o communicate_v in_o another_o then_o may_v the_o pastor_n of_o particular_a congregation_n upon_o occasion_n admit_v to_o the_o seal_n of_o the_o covenant_n such_o know_v and_o approve_a christian_n as_o have_v right_a and_o title_n thereunto_o and_o due_o and_o orderly_o require_v the_o same_o for_o of_o all_o these_o the_o reason_n be_v like_a and_o perpetual_a three_o it_o be_v very_o improbable_a that_o the_o person_n baptize_v be_v in_o church-state_n or_o order_n if_o they_o be_v member_n of_o the_o jewish_a church_n not_o yet_o dissolve_v this_o be_v not_o to_o the_o purpose_n for_o man_n have_v not_o right_a to_o baptism_n because_o they_o be_v member_n of_o the_o jewish_a church_n but_o because_o disciple_n and_o as_o you_o say_v join_v together_o in_o covenant_n and_o have_v fellowship_n and_o call_n of_o their_o minister_n who_o be_v to_o dispense_v the_o seal_n unto_o they_o and_o baptism_n be_v the_o sacrament_n of_o initiation_n not_o into_o the_o jewish_a but_o the_o christian_a church_n second_o when_o you_o say_v the_o seal_n in_o ordinary_a dispensation_n be_v the_o privilege_n of_o the_o church_n there_o be_v no_o minister_n but_o of_o particular_a church_n baptism_n and_o the_o lord_n supper_n be_v to_o be_v administer_v only_o to_o the_o member_n of_o the_o church_n no_o society_n may_v lawful_o desire_v the_o seal_n unless_o they_o have_v join_v in_o the_o choice_n and_o call_n of_o their_o minister_n believer_n not_o yet_o join_v in_o church-order_n be_v without_o do_v you_o not_o in_o all_o these_o understand_v a_o christian_a society_n 88_o unite_v in_o a_o churchway_n etc._n etc._n which_o can_v agree_v to_o the_o member_n of_o the_o jewish_a church_n not_o yet_o dissolve_v three_o the_o constitution_n of_o the_o church_n say_v mr._n robin_n be_v the_o orderly_a collection_n and_o conjunction_n of_o the_o saint_n into_o and_o in_o the_o covenant_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n but_o the_o member_n of_o jewish_a church_n not_o yet_o dissolve_v be_v not_o in_o such_o constitution_n if_o the_o eunuch_n and_o centurion_n be_v proselyte_n and_o member_n of_o the_o church_n of_o the_o jew_n the_o samaritan_n who_o philip_n baptize_v be_v not_o so_o and_o that_o any_o gentile_n or_o the_o gailor_n who_o paul_n baptize_v in_o the_o apostle_n time_n be_v set_v member_n of_o a_o christian_a assembly_n before_o baptize_v be_v very_o strange_a if_o there_o be_v a_o church_n at_o philippi_n yet_o the_o gailor_n who_o be_v baptize_v and_o convert_v the_o same_o night_n can_v not_o be_v a_o set_a member_n by_o solemn_a admission_n before_o baptism_n it_o be_v say_v the_o apostle_n baptize_v these_o person_n in_o a_o extraordinary_a way_n but_o in_o this_o practice_n of_o the_o apostle_n two_o thing_n be_v to_o be_v consider_v 1._o the_o circumstance_n of_o the_o action_n 2._o the_o quality_n or_o substance_n of_o the_o act_n in_o some_o circumstance_n the_o baptise_v of_o some_o of_o these_o person_n may_v be_v extraordinary_a but_o the_o substance_n and_o quality_n of_o the_o action_n be_v ground_v upon_o rule_n perpetual_a and_o common_a to_o we_o with_o they_o 1._o that_o be_v do_v in_o a_o extraordinary_a way_n which_o by_o peculiar_a privilege_n of_o dispensation_n be_v make_v lawful_a to_o some_o one_o or_o few_o man_n which_o be_v unlawful_a to_o all_o other_o not_o have_v the_o same_o dispensation_n but_o where_o the_o ground_n and_o reason_n of_o the_o action_n be_v common_a we_o must_v not_o conceive_v the_o thing_n to_o be_v do_v in_o a_o extraordinary_a way_n by_o special_a dispensation_n what_o be_v do_v by_o the_o apostle_n upon_o special_a revelation_n and_o immediate_a direction_n beside_o the_o ordinary_a and_o common_a rule_n in_o that_o we_o be_v not_o to_o imitate_v or_o follow_v they_o because_o we_o have_v not_o their_o warrant_n but_o what_o they_o do_v upon_o reason_n and_o ground_n reach_v unto_o we_o no_o less_o than_o unto_o they_o in_o that_o we_o have_v the_o same_o liberty_n allowance_n or_o commandment_n that_o they_o do_v walk_v by_o in_o one_o and_o the_o same_o action_n there_o may_v be_v and_o oft_o be_v something_o ordinary_a something_o extraordinary_a or_o peculiar_a to_o special_a time_n or_o person_n so_o it_o be_v in_o the_o apostle_n administration_n of_o the_o seal_n but_o in_o every_o place_n where_o they_o come_v by_o illimited_a power_n as_o you_o speak_v they_o do_v baptize_v disciple_n if_o they_o do_v baptize_v this_o be_v proper_a to_o they_o and_o can_v not_o be_v communicate_v to_o any_o other_o by_o they_o for_o there_o be_v no_o passage_n of_o scripture_n which_o teach_v this_o that_o one_o officer_n may_v communicate_v his_o power_n to_o another_o or_o do_v that_o which_o particular_o belong_v to_o his_o office_n by_o a_o deputy_n but_o that_o they_o baptize_v believer_n profess_v their_o faith_n in_o the_o lord_n jesus_n and_o repentance_n towards_o god_n such_o as_o have_v glad_o embrace_v the_o word_n and_o receive_v the_o gift_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n this_o be_v common_a to_o they_o with_o all_o pastor_n and_o teacher_n because_o they_o do_v it_o not_o by_o power_n illimited_a or_o special_a dispensation_n but_o upon_o this_o stand_a perpetual_a reason_n that_o the_o promise_n be_v make_v to_o they_o and_o to_o their_o seed_n and_o to_o as_o many_o as_o the_o lord_n shall_v call_v that_o they_o have_v receive_v the_o holy_a ghost_n and_o the_o kingdom_n of_o heaven_n belong_v to_o they_o and_o if_o the_o ground_n and_o reason_n of_o their_o practice_n be_v common_a reach_v to_o we_o no_o less_o then_o unto_o they_o the_o practice_n itself_o be_v not_o extraordinary_a to_o say_v nothing_o that_o this_o answer_n will_v not_o stand_v with_o the_o former_a for_o if_o the_o party_n baptize_v be_v set_v member_n of_o particular_a society_n the_o apostle_n do_v not_o baptize_v they_o in_o a_o extraordinary_a way_n they_o do_v it_o by_o the_o guidance_n and_o direction_n of_o the_o spirit_n that_o be_v true_a but_o not_o by_o guidance_n of_o dispensation_n or_o prerogative_n whereby_o that_o be_v make_v lawful_a without_o such_o inspiration_n have_v be_v unlawful_a 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be_v assemble_v at_o that_o time_n in_o his_o house_n while_o he_o speak_v these_o word_n to_o he_o give_v all_o the_o prophet_n witness_n that_o through_o the_o name_n of_o jesus_n whosoever_o believe_v on_o he_o shall_v receive_v remission_n of_o sin_n peter_n demand_v can_v any_o man_n forbid_v water_n that_o these_o shall_v not_o be_v baptize_v which_o have_v receive_v the_o holy_a ghost_n as_o well_o as_o we_o in_o this_o catalogue_n we_o see_v profession_n of_o faith_n and_o repentance_n require_v in_o they_o that_o be_v admit_v to_o partake_v in_o the_o seal_n but_o there_o be_v not_o a_o word_n of_o church-covenant_n either_o in_o the_o institution_n or_o administration_n of_o the_o seal_n before_o they_o be_v admit_v to_o they_o that_o christian_n be_v solemn_o ingraft_v into_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n and_o into_o particular_a society_n by_o the_o seal_n be_v a_o truth_n acknowledge_v on_o all_o side_n but_o that_o ever_o it_o be_v deem_v necessary_a that_o a_o christian_n shall_v be_v a_o set_a member_n of_o a_o particular_a congregationall_a church_n before_o he_o be_v admit_v to_o the_o seal_n or_o that_o by_o divine_a institution_n any_o such_o thing_n be_v ordain_v as_o necessary_a thereunto_o that_o upon_o the_o ground_n before_o mention_v we_o deny_v and_o can_v account_v it_o less_o than_o a_o addition_n to_o the_o institution_n for_o if_o the_o sacrament_n be_v seal_n of_o the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n and_o baptism_n by_o divine_a institution_n belong_v to_o disciple_n faithful_a saint_n who_o have_v glad_o receive_v the_o word_n of_o grace_n be_v justify_v by_o faith_n sanctify_v by_o the_o spirit_n adopt_v to_o be_v the_o child_n of_o god_n by_o grace_n and_o heir_n apparent_a to_o the_o kingdom_n of_o heaven_n then_o to_o debar_v such_o from_o the_o seal_n and_o their_o seed_n from_o baptism_n because_o they_o be_v not_o in_o church-covenant_n as_o you_o speak_v be_v a_o addition_n to_o the_o ordinance_n of_o grace_n and_o many_o way_n 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the_o assembly_n do_v dissent_n upon_o more_o substantial_a reason_n our_o answer_n be_v negative_a viz._n that_o the_o power_n of_o excommunication_n be_v not_o seal_v in_o the_o congregation_n neither_o ought_v it_o to_o be_v so_o in_o any_o of_o the_o church_n of_o the_o lord_n jesus_n who_o ought_v not_o to_o carry_v matter_n by_o number_n of_o vote_n against_o god_n as_o this_o position_n imply_v but_o by_o strength_n of_o rule_n and_o reason_n according_a to_o god_n the_o power_n of_o the_o apostle_n be_v not_o to_o do_v thing_n against_o the_o truth_n but_o for_o the_o truth_n 2_o cor._n 13._o 8_o and_o not_o for_o destruction_n but_o for_o edification_n 2_o cor._n 10._o 8._o and_o the_o same_o may_v be_v say_v concern_v the_o power_n which_o god_n have_v give_v to_o the_o church_n and_o if_o any_o church_n among_o we_o have_v swerve_v from_o the_o rule_n which_o be_v more_o than_o we_o know_v we_o do_v not_o allow_v they_o in_o such_o a_o practice_n but_o shall_v be_v ready_a as_o the_o lord_n shall_v help_v to_o convince_v they_o of_o their_o sin_n therein_o reply_n this_o question_n be_v much_o mistake_v for_o the_o demand_n be_v not_o whether_o in_o the_o congregation_n matter_n shall_v be_v carry_v by_o number_n of_o vote_n against_o god_n as_o you_o interpret_v the_o position_n but_o whether_o the_o power_n of_o excommunication_n so_o lie_v in_o the_o body_n of_o the_o congregation_n as_o that_o sentence_n must_v proceed_v in_o externo_fw-la foro_fw-la according_a to_o the_o vote_n and_o determination_n of_o the_o major_a part_n and_o so_o whether_o power_n of_o admission_n of_o member_n do_v so_o reside_v in_o the_o community_n as_o that_o they_o must_v be_v refuse_v who_o the_o major_a part_n refuse_v though_o the_o pastor_n and_o governor_n and_o part_n of_o the_o congregation_n be_v of_o another_o judgement_n and_o he_o admit_v who_o the_o major_a part_n do_v approve_v and_o though_o the_o church_n have_v receive_v no_o power_n against_o god_n but_o for_o god_n yet_o in_o the_o execution_n of_o the_o power_n no_o doubt_n the_o member_n of_o that_o church_n may_v be_v of_o different_a judgement_n and_o affection_n wherein_o the_o one_o side_n or_o other_o do_v err_v and_o be_v deceive_v now_o the_o question_n hereupon_o move_v be_v whether_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n be_v so_o give_v and_o commit_v to_o the_o society_n of_o the_o faithful_a as_o that_o in_o external_a court_n that_o act_n or_o sentence_n must_v stand_v and_o be_v in_o force_n which_o the_o great_a part_n shall_v determine_v among_o they_o which_o hold_v the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n to_o be_v give_v to_o the_o church_n some_o 240._o distinguish_v betwixt_o the_o power_n itself_o which_o they_o give_v to_o the_o church_n and_o the_o execution_n and_o exercise_n of_o it_o which_o they_o confine_v to_o the_o presbytery_n 124-126_a other_o give_v the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n with_o the_o exercise_n thereof_o to_o the_o whole_a body_n of_o the_o church_n or_o if_o in_o the_o dispensation_n they_o attribute_v any_o thing_n to_o the_o officer_n it_o be_v but_o as_o servant_n of_o the_o church_n from_o who_o they_o derive_v their_o authority_n by_o church_n also_o some_o understand_v the_o community_n of_o the_o faithful_a together_o with_o their_o officer_n and_o guide_n and_o here_o lie_v the_o stone_n at_o which_o they_o of_o the_o separation_n stumble_v and_o which_o we_o conceive_v to_o be_v your_o judgement_n and_o practice_n wherein_o we_o require_v your_o plain_a answer_n with_o your_o reason_n but_o have_v receive_v no_o satisfaction_n you_o refer_v we_o to_o mr._n parker_n reason_n to_o prove_v the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n to_o belong_v to_o the_o whole_a church_n who_o be_v of_o far_o different_a judgement_n from_o mr._n parker_n in_o the_o point_n itself_o and_o if_o your_o judgement_n and_o practice_n be_v according_a to_o that_o of_o the_o separation_n which_o we_o fear_v you_o dissent_v from_o he_o and_o we_o can_v but_o dissent_v from_o you_o upon_o these_o consideration_n 1._o no_o power_n agree_v to_o the_o multitude_n or_o community_n of_o the_o faithful_a but_o that_o which_o be_v give_v they_o of_o the_o lord_n by_o his_o positive_a law_n for_o the_o whole_a spiritual_a power_n for_o the_o gather_n and_o government_n of_o his_o church_n be_v give_v to_o christ_n as_o mediator_n and_o if_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n be_v derive_v from_o 239._o and_o communicate_v by_o christ_n unto_o his_o church_n of_o necessity_n it_o must_v draw_v its_o original_n from_o divine_a positive_a law_n and_o can_v agree_v to_o none_o but_o as_o it_o be_v communicate_v but_o the_o communicate_v power_n of_o the_o key_n with_o the_o execution_n thereof_o christ_n have_v not_o give_v immediate_o to_o the_o whole_a multitude_n but_o to_o some_o person_n and_o officer_n design_v and_o appoint_v thereunto_o peruse_v the_o several_a passage_n of_o scripture_n wherein_o power_n and_o authority_n of_o preach_v the_o gospel_n administer_a the_o sacrament_n bind_v and_o lose_v be_v give_v to_o the_o church_n and_o it_o be_v apparent_a that_o distinct_a several_a person_n be_v speak_v of_o and_o not_o the_o whole_a community_n go_v teach_v all_o nation_n 28._o and_o baptize_v they_o etc._n etc._n who_o sin_n you_o remit_v they_o be_v remit_v etc._n etc._n ●6_n feed_v my_o lamb_n feed_v my_o sheep_n etc._n etc._n be_v these_o thing_n speak_v to_o the_o whole_a community_n or_o to_o special_a person_n 2._o if_o christ_n give_v this_o power_n to_o the_o community_n be_v it_o from_o the_o begin_n of_o the_o church_n or_o take_v it_o effect_v after_o the_o church_n be_v plant_v and_o establish_v by_o the_o apostle_n not_o the_o first_o for_o then_o the_o apostle_n themselves_o shall_v derive_v their_o power_n from_o the_o community_n and_o society_n of_o the_o faithful_a 1._o which_o they_o do_v not_o 22._o but_o