Selected quad for the lemma: ground_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
ground_n	apostle_n	doctrine_n	faith_n	1,496	5	5.4771	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A41330	The questions between the conformist and nonconformist, truly stated, and briefly discussed Dr. Falkner, The friendly debate &c., examined and answered : together with a discourse about separation, and some animadversions upon Dr. Stillingfleet's book entituled, The unreasonableness of separation : observations upon Dr. Templers sermon preached at a visitation in Cambridge : a brief vindication of Mr. Stephen Marshal.	Firmin, Giles, 1614-1697.	1681 (1681)	Wing F962; ESTC R16085	105,802	120

ordained before Pauls journey to Jerusalem Acts 20. for he tells Timothy 1 Tim. 3.14 he hoped to come unto him shortly but Act. 20.25 when he sent for the Elders of Ephesus he tells them they shall see his face no more If Timothy then were Bishop of Ephesus before this time then he was there now and was now sent for which I shall never believe that Paul would not mention him in particular whose Name he uses to joyn with his in several Epistles But if Timothy did come with the other Elders here is no difference made of this Prelate from the other Elders but 28. ver he gives the same alike to them all Therefore I deny your Consequence If Timothy were Bishop of phesus what need Paul tell him in his second Epistle to him Chap. 4.12 Tychicus I have sent to Ephesus he might have spared that line for Timothy must needs know it if he came to him there But you add for a further Confirmation p. 28. the words of Christ Joh. 20.21 As my Father sent me so I send you But the Commission of Christ as an Apostle did undoubtedly extend to a superintendency over the Clergy and the particle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 justifie the same as to the Apostles c. A. Undoubtedly Christs Commission did extend as you say without limiting it to any precincts which you tell us several times the Apostles were and especially in p. 6. you would labour to prove it from 2 Cor. 10.16 Though that Text I conceive will not do it But if the particle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 will force their superintendency over the Clergy it will as well force it without limitation to such precincts for his Father did not so send him and how their Commission runs we read But I shall not give my thoughts about this now you tell us pag. 34. that among the Bishops Peter leads the Van in the Church of Antioch Pope Innocent this does not make for you I pray tell us in your next in which Church did Paul lead the Van among the Bishops But if Peter were Bishop at Antioch indeed Paul went beyond his Precinct when he dealt so roundly with a Bishop in his own See as he did with this Bishop of Antioch Gal. 2.11.14 2ly I conceive you stretch this Text beyond the intent of our Lord. For the work which our Lord undertook he had a Call from his Father who sent him Heb. 5.4 Joh. 6.27 and 10.36 His Father had Authority to send him and was with him Joh. 16.32 So he the Head and King of his Church having all power given to him in Heaven and in Earth Math. 28.18 had Authority to send forth his Apostles to their work they might show their Commissions or Credentials He promised also to be with them and their Successors to the end and I think all Gospel-Ministers are their Successors but that the Lord intended in these words the setling of a Superiority of one person above his brethren in the Ministry to the end of the world this is but Petitio pincipii your gloss and I deny it for the Reasons and Scriptures before mentioned 3ly Those Apostles had Superiority over Bishops if there were such then as you say there were yea Arch-Bishops who is now over them His third Text is Eph 4.12 13. Apostles were given and their Suffregans as you call them Prophets and Evangelists for the perfecting of the Saints hence pag. 30. you conclude for the duration of Prophets and Evangelists to this day Thus then we have to this day Apostles Prophets and Evangelists in the sense of this Text unless he will abuse the Text a rare sight I would go many miles to see such persons and to their Superiority willingly submit Calvin Gerhard Beza Zanchi the Leyden Professors c. tell us these were Ministri extraordinarii Temporarii but they were men of no Acuminated Intellects their judgements signifie little Well Sir what Apostles were you tell us not neither need you we know them well but where you can find such I know not but such you must find if your proof hold For the Prophets you tell us they were such as had an excellent skill to preach the Gospel out of the Books of the Old Testament 1 Cor. 13.2 Evangelical Doctrines locked up in the Figures of the Law and Predictions of the Prophets If this were all we shall find many such Prophets amongst the Nonconformists But Sir you have spoken very short of the Prophets Dr. Hammond Zanchy and Gerhard add two things more 1. A foretelling things to come 2ly They spake all from the Spirit from a Divine Afflatus These three are somewhat like I pray shew us these Prophets now The Evangelists you tell us are such as had a profound insight into the Gospel as contained in the Writings of the New-Testament and could with singular dexterity open and explain its true importance Such there are also amongst the Nonconformists But Sir what if there were Evangelists before there was any part of the New-Testament writtens how then does your description agree I question not if the Ancients say true of the time when John wrote his Gospel but Timothy was an Evangelist long before and in that Gospel are the deep Mysteries contained more than in the other three If the first Epistle to the Thessalonians were the first Epistle that Paul wrote as Divines generally think Timothy is joyned with Paul in the 1. ver so that very little was written when he first was made an Evangelist I see by some of your own and those Learned men Philip was an Evangelist when he preached the Gospel at Samaria and wrought Miracles Acts 8.5 6 7. but at that time no part of the New Testament was written For Matthew wrote first and that was eight years after the Ascension as our Divines for the generality of them agree But for the Evangelists Eusebius l. 3. Chap. 37. a fitter man to tell us what an Evangelist was than you gives us another description and that which agrees with Philip in Acts 8.5 6 7. and other Scriptures I shall note only these 1. That they watered the Churches every where planted by the Apostles 2. They preached Christ to them which as yet heard not of the Doctrine of Christ 3. Having planted the Faith in new and strange places they ordained there other Pastors committing to them the Tillage of the new ground pressing themselves to other People and Countries 4. By the power of the Holy Ghost they wrought miraculously Show us these Evangelists now His last Text is 1 Tim. 6.14 Keep the Commandments until the appearing of the Lord Jesus c. A. 1. By the appearing of the Lord c. exitus vitae is meant thinks Austin and some others But if not yet this appearing is an Argument used not only to Timothy but to all Christians to look to their duty Col. 3.4 Tit. 2.13 1. Pet. 17. 2. What Commandment this was if we well

to other Churches and future times after what way and manner we worship God c. Answ 1. But Sir cannot that be done unless we leave them the words and syllables of our prayers to which we were continually bound up will not the Confession of our Faith and a Directory for Worship if the Assemblies Directory be not sufficient I pray let your party mend it do this sufficiently 2ly If this reason be forcible was it not as strong in the Apostolical Churches and much more than now Why did they not leave their Liturgies that all Churches after them might know their way and man ner of worshipping God all their words in prayer So name you but one argument that was not of as much validity in the Apostles time as now Vniformity prevention of errors of rude and slovenly words and expressions and what else you please Then do but bring us forth their Forms which they imposed upon the Churches and give us but infallible ground for our faith to believe that these they were and no alteration in the least then Sir we shall listen to your reasons From other men I have heard other arguments One I heard from a Learned Physician who had it from Bishop Sparrow in a Sermon and was much taken with the strength of it Suppose said he their own prayers were better than the prayers of the Church yet obedience is better than sacrifice Saul 's obedience had been more acceptable than the fat beasts he spared for sacrifice The strength of this argument let us see Here is a King commanded to give obedience to God immediately and that absolutely without any question Our case is we are called to give obedience to Superiours but creatures and that in such things which concern God immediately concerning which the Lord hath given us Commandments to which all Superiours are as strictly bound as that King was to Gods command Shall not we then first try whether Creatures commands agree with the Creators commands must not obedience to the Potter take place of obedience to the potsheard if not then Ephraim did well when he willingly obeyed the command of Jeroboam Hos 5.11 and Israel did well 2 King 17.8 in obeying the statutes of their Kings Whence in matters of God we are bound to try all things though the Commands be not sub codem gradu yet if we suspect them to be sub codem genere let us have leave to examine But in short were it not for God we could with as much ease give obedience to mens commands as you can But this instance is against the Bishop 2. If there be a Betterness and we deny to give it to God then give us leave to take heed of the curse Mal. 1.14 Another common saying is this All your conceived prayers are Forms to us Ergo these Forms are lawful Ans So is every mans Sermon a man may make one Sermon and in that comprehend all that is requisite to a mans Salvation but if a man should only read that Sermon every Lords day you would discern a difference between this Form and the Sermons you hear daily and think him worthy to be cast out of his Ministry All mens speeches are but Forms in your sense 2ly Therefore you do but Ludere Homonymia in the word Form In every effect there must be a Form though hard to find out But Prayers composed of Confessions Petitions c. in such syllables words sentences to which men are tyed up in the Worship of God this is the Form in question I grant by these your Prayers differ from others and so you make a formal difference So we can allow there will be Forms in every mans Prayer 3ly A man that improveth the gift which Christ hath given him resting upon the promise of the Spirit to help his Infirmities he doth as he ought Let his Prayers seem what they will to you they are not Forms according to the question he is not tyed up to syllables but hath his liberty to vary according to the subject-matter before him Occuring Providences and spirits assistance The Scripture grounds which have made me judg this unlawful are these 1. That Text Ephes 4 8 11 12. Christ when he ascended gave gifts unto men v. 8. and these men amongst others are Pastors and Teachers v. 11. the end of these gifts and officers For the perfecting of the Saints c. v. 12. True indeed these gifts differ very much in men So the 7th v. tells us But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ But though the measure differ yet so much is given to every Pastor and Teacher let him but be saithful in the improvement of it as shall serve the end Christ intended Thus Rom. 12.6 Having gifts c. I am sure among these gifts the gift of Prayer is one so requisite in a Minister and so common to all true Christians yea to Hypocrites But this practise renders Christs act but various and crosses him in what he did and doth in giving gifts for though he doth give them they must not use them nor improve them why then did he purchase them and give them it seems he gave gifts to one or two in a Nation composing of Prayers is not the work of a multitude to compose Prayers and these must be imposed on all the Ministers in a Nation with a stamp of Authority though Christ hath given gifts to all his Ministers and many of them as able and more able than are the Composers and Imposers but their gift must lye dormant they are tyed up to words It was a silly answer he gave They may use their gifts at home The Text confutes him 2ly That Command 2 Tim. 2.2 that Timothy look to it that those whom he admits into the Ministry be faithful men and able to teach others is any man so absurd to think that an ability to pray for others is not included remembring 1 Tim. 2.1 Act. 6.4 and a gift so common to all Christians But this crosseth the Command for though they be never so able to pray they shall not use their gift or ability but be tyed up to other mens words and syllables Why not before Sermons as before Sacraments give us a Text. But your own party think even those prayers are taken away or wish they were even before Sermon 3ly As Christ purchaseth and giveth gifts and requires gifts ability in those whom he calls to his work so no doubt but he will require an account of the use and improvement of those gifts That Ministerial gifts are comprehended in the Talents given forth Mat. 25.15 I think no understanding Divine will deny in the 19 v. he will reckon with them What account then shall we give for this when one Talent we neglected contenting our selves meerly with other mens words 4ly It renders the promise of the assistance of the Spirit in prayer Rom. 8.26 but vain in great

part The Spirit in prayer helpeth our Infirmities not only in the manner of our prayer but even in the matter of our prayer the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for so are the words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Quid oremus this infirmity the Spirit helps but now you will spare the Spirit that trouble for the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the things and words are all set down to a syllable Obj. The Fr. Deb. falsly so called for neither Author nor Book answer the title part 1. p. 88. tells us The Spirit of God doth not now suggest to any of us when we pray the very matter and words which we utter Ans 1. That the Spirit suggesteth All the words and matter I easily deny but that the Spirit doth help his people in the very matter of their prayers the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I must own it or give the lye to the Text. 2. Let me appeal to the experience of praying Christians Ministers and others when we have been called forth in our Ministerial work or at other times to pray that was the work lay before us when our hearts have been oppressed with some temptation our spirits quite down dead and flat the thoughts of our duty a terrour to us because we found no ability to it we could not tell what-to say unto the Lord we wanted words we wanted hearts we wanted every thing but to our work we must go we could not avoid it Well when we have been entred into our work have we not found a supply afforded our tongues untyed our hearts enlarged words and matter have come flowing in such sentences words and matter as were never in our minds before yet very apt and pertinent melting and warming that the best prayers ever we made have been at such times when we have gone most pressed with the sense of our own inability though it be not always so the Spirit is a free agent yet at these times whence could it come but from this good Spirit Shall he lose his glory 3. I thought that praying men use before-hand to pray for that good Spirit for a presence of Grace as to the spiritual manner of our work and a presence of assistance as to the matter of our work being conscious to our selves of the truth of the sayings of that great Apostle 2 Cor. 3.5 and 2.16 how the Spirit inspired the Prophets we enquire not but that he helpeth our Infirmities in our Duties shew me the sace of that Minister that feareth the Lord who will deny it and doth not feel the want of him Having these scripture-Scripture-grounds I go on to Arguments deduced also from Scripture 4. That practise which nourisheth Ministers in their laziness and sluggishness is certainly an unlawful practise But this practise of Composing and Imposing these Forms c. according to the question do so Ergo Ministers duty is to stir up the gifts of God which are in them 2 Tim. 1.6 but that duty now as to the gift of prayer is layed by The Fr. Debat tells us Part 1. pag. 124. That some of the Nonconformists are for Liturgy but they think it not convenient for men of their parts and gifts Truly Sir when our hearts are in any trim becoming the duty of prayer we find it a very great hindrance to be tyed up to the Forms of other men we cannot open our hearts nor spread before the Lord our desires in other mens conceptions we cannot work with their tools But when laziness despondency and unbelief prevail it is as convenient as may be for men of our sinful tempers I could tell you something of the experience of my own carnal heart as to this point but I find you are a person that jeer at the experiences of Christians and therefore let it alone 5. We are to pray for spiritual gifts 1 Cor. 14.1 I hope not only for extraordinary gifts Every good and perfect gift Jam. 1.17 tells us whence it comes Then for a gift of Preaching and a gift of Prayer But why should we pray for it if when the Lord hath given it we must not use it but be tyed up to other mens Forms 6. If you may impose Forms of Prayer then you may impose Forms of Preaching so leave us nothing but Forms of Prayer and Homilies to read as indeed they came in both together We have Forms of Preaching in the Scripture as you have of Prayer by what authority you take away one you may take away the other Your Humane reasons that I have met with as yet will as strongly argue for Forms of Preaching as of Prayer When this argument was urged in the Commencement-house the Respondent yielded it But Dr. Fern being then Moderator thought this was too gross and so denied the consequence Because in Prayer we spake to God but in preaching to men But the Doctors answer was invalid for in prayer we represent and are the mouth of a people of Infirmities we are but persons of Infirmities Here Infirmities are but like us the Lord expects no other from us Rom. 8.26 The Spirit helps our infirmities in prayer But in Preaching we speak from God we come in his Authority and require Faith and Obedience to what we preach therefore here we had need have a care what we speak for now we come with Thus saith the Lord. 7. Diversities of Gifts and Operations are the Spirits work and glory 1 Cor. 12.4.6 Diversities of Kinds and of Degrees in those kinds this diversity is seen in the gift of Prayer as well as in other gifts As to have in one Lords-day many thousands of Ministers confessing of sins petitioning for mercies pardon purging healing praying also for Kings c. they all aim at the same thing in their Prayers but the words sentences whereby they express the conceptions of their minds and desires of their hearts how various are they the same Spirit that gave this diversity of gifts assists them in the exercise of them And it is his glory which is taken away while these thousands of Ministers are tyed up to the same syllables in their Book This multi-form unity if I may so call it for here are various expressions different sentences yet all tend to one and the same thing hath better ground for it in Scripture than Vniformity in syllables 8. What want of wisdom care or grace yea want of all this with your Ceremonies charges upon the Apostles all men may see you pretend much wisdom and care of Gods worship in these things were the Apostles so defective in wisdom and care that they could not foresee the usefulness of these things in the Church and appoint them as well as you And that when there were the same reasons that you urge for them now in their time We are built upon the foundations of the Prophets and Apostles and take them to be as wise as any of their followers To conclude how honourable is this for the Ministry I will

c. Thus Man runs even with God but if Mr. Carre gives us the true notation of Superstition that which is supra-statutum if here be not superstition and very great boldness with God I am much mistaken Mr. Falkner once or twice tells us though he allows such Ceremonies yet by no means will allow too many for then they would be burdensome But Sir if your Ceremonies have such a vertue in them to stir up our dull minds to our duty towards God where there is one I pray give us ten our hearts are dull enough and we want helps if these indeed be helps He tells us p 419. That all Ecclesiastical Constitutions must be in themselves certainly lawful By lawful I hope you mean agreeable to the Law of God make but this good and they shall certainly be obeyed But this is the thing we much desire which Law of God do these agree with I see and hear enough of the 1 Cor. 14. ult but that this Text will warrant Ceremonies thus instituted by men in the Worship of God I must see and hear more than ever I saw or heard to this day Bellarmine and Vasquez I see make much use of this Text for all their Popish Trinkets and Bellarmine tells us that Holy garments lighting of Wax-candles and their other Ceremonies may be as well proved from this Text as bowing the knee in Prayer But the Jesuit wanted a Candle here I am sure I have often wondered how men of Learning that had read over the 1 1th and the 14th Chap. of this Epistle where we may plainly see what the Apostle points at by his reproving the undecency and disorder in their Congregation should make this Text a ground to set up humane Ceremonies of Doctrinal or Moral signification in the House and Worship of God I shall add but a sew words 1. Decency and Order are no spiritual graces for though the holiness and majesty of the Worship of God is in some measure violated without them yet they are in themselves but external circumstances common to Civil actions Civil Courts and Societies where undecency and disorder are blamed and must be avoided as well as in the Worship of God 2ly Come to Decency how they serve for Decency I know not I think light of Scripture light of Nature and common approved Civil custom should be rules for Decency not mens bare wills For then some men will appoint such Ceremonies of such a colour and such a Form and he saith the worship of God cannot be decently performed without them Another appoints Ceremonies of a contrary colour and different Form and saith the Worship cannot be performed decently without them So many Heads and VVills so many Rules for Decency that we shall never know when the Worship of God is performed decently For the Woman to be vailed as the note of her subjection was the civil custom before the Worship of God was known in Corinth for the woman now to lay it by was undecent 3ly That is decent the contrary to which is undecens but for a Minister to pray without a Surplice is not undecent You know how many foreign Churches will not use it what then is the Worship of God therefore performed undecently in all those Churches Nay appeal to your own Sons the chief Gentleman in my Parish and a Son of your Church told me I think you are as decent and more decent in your Gown and Cassock than you are in a Surplice I have spoken with several Ministers Conformists and they all tell me they would not care if they were all thrown out of the Church only they are commanded therefore they use them But were they such things as without which the Worship could not be decently performed they would not speak so slightly of them and wish them thrown out they are men of reason fit to judg of decency 4ly Decency is of necessity it must be the command and reason for it are clear then we must have a necessity put upon these if Worship cannot be decently performed without them 5ly Decency is as necessary in the Pulpit as in the Desk I hope there is the Worship of God in Prayer and Preaching as well as in the Desk but always I saw the Surplice put off when the Minister ascends the Pulpit unless a Sacrament were to be administred 6ly Decency is necessary in our Family-worship must we then have a peculiar garment to put on when we pray in our Families 7ly They cannot be used to signifie Decency for the thing signified by any outward sign or ceremony does not come into my eye but my understanding but if Decency lye in the whiteness and fineness of the Linnen I see it with my eye As for Order I know not how these help here what disorder there was in the Church of Corinth Chap. 11.33 34. declares and what disorder among the Prophets is intimated Chap. 14.33 there was very great reason for this Rule but I hope very good Order may be in the Church without a Surplice or Cross or Kneeling Mr. Falkner tells us p. 391. that the Surplice properly signifies the reverence we owe to God and the high esteem we have of his Ordinances This Text then for Decency must be layed by The next Text I find in Mr. Carre is 1 King 8.64 Solomon's Altar For which he had no word A. This is Bellarmine's also who joins Jacob's new Ceremony Gen. 28.18 but yet saith Dee quidem impellente sed non expresse mandante novam Ceremoniam excogitavit that is sufficient but for this of Solomon Bishop Hall saith it was by command and instinct from God Diodati that he was divinely inspired I would have added more but Mr. Falkner lays this extraordinary case by as not cogent p. 309. Mr. Carre's next They had no command for building of Synagogues I answer But they had commands for their holy Convocations on the Sabbath day Levit. 23.3 Place must be a necessary circumstance they must meet some where Levit. 26.31 God threatens their Sanctuaries in the Plural number some Hebrews interpret Synagogues Hence Psal 74.4 8. they burnt All the Synagogues The Temple is mentioned distinct v. 7. Sanctuary in the singular number This before their last Captivity it may well refer to the Babylonish not to Antiochus Mr. Palkner p. 311 as I see Mr. Carre and Bishop Morley in his Letter against Mr. Baxter and all our Conformists make use of Christs discumbing at the Passeover to shew Christ his conformity to the Jewish customs departing therein from the first Institution Bishop Morl. pag. 29. words are these It is certain that Christ and his Disciples sate at the Passover and this no doubt was according to the Jewish Church at that time but it is as certain that this was not the manner according to the first institution which was to eat it standing Read Exod. 12.11 thus he proves we ought to kneel at the Sacrament though Christ and his Apostles sate Answ