forgetting what they moste object agaynst vs hee yeeldeth vs heere-by that our PASTOVRES and REFORMERS had an ordinarie Vocation Nowe as I haue opened the implyed Deceit of your Poet his Proposition and Assumption you may see Philomathes what Conclusion hee can bee able to builde therevpon eyther for the Church of ROME not-with-standing anie Confession of ours or yet agaynst vs. And this for-sooth is the Argument where-of all your Men so much glorie as they doe entitle it their INVINCIBLE ARGVMENT and where-in your Poet hath so much pleased him-selfe that hee hath reserved it for his last Blowe and falleth even for to muze what wee can bee able to answere there-vnto and is so secure of getting none Answere from vs as hee is content to set this to all his Disciples for a terme of adhering to the Romish Faith till wee for-sooth finde out an Aunswere there-vnto But besides that little which I haue heere sayde as I thinke I haue aunswered there-vnto so at length and playnlie in my Defence of our Callinges and Epistle to a Recusant where of purpose this poynt is handeled as I neede not heere at this tyme insist farder there-in I referre you to those TREATISES for a more distinct Light and fuller Resolution heere-in Which if you shall reade with care and that Ingenuitie which I conceiue to bee in you it may fall that your Poet repent him of praefixing you so short a tyme to remayne a Romanist Philomathes I will GOD willing reade them both carefullie and vprightlie And seeing that in them as you say this poynt of matter is purposelie handeled I will not vrge you to speake more there-of at this tyme. For even in the little which you haue sayde you haue given mee some-what more to muze vpon than I expected and which will stirre mee to search what more accuratelie heere-of you haue else-where written Philadelphus I hope Philomathes you shall finde your selfe so satisfied in this which your Men esteeme and call their Invincible Argument by reading those TREATISES and shall finde it in them so solidlie aunswered as though your Poet should not onlie fall from his Muses to muzing but even from Muzing should fall to Madnesse yet shall hee never bee able to make there-vnto anie sound Replye As for his Counsell which vpon vayne Confidence of this his Argument hee giveth of cleaving to the Romish Fayth let them follow it whom GOD hath not and vpon more â—…ure Groundes advysed better If hee were able to prooue eyther That the Doctrine preached by his Apostle AVGVSTINE was the true and vncorrupted FAYTH of CHRIST or that since AVGVSTINE'S tyme it had not received great Increase of Corruption hee might the better bynde vs to his Counsell But bare Personall Succession without Evidence of the principall and moste proper Succession vvill never conclude that And your Poet prooveth but still lyke him-selfe and closeth vp his Ryme ridiculouslie in bringing it Our Callings still you impudentlie quarrell Though Ansvveres you haue gotten manie one Your Poet 's prickt with playne approaching Perill Of your Empyre and Romes now tottring Throne Not daring more our Doctrine then oppone Hee fettleth faultie to finde our Vocation Forgetting strayght and what hee sayeth anone Muzing hee mooues to vs this Exprobuation That Popish Priests with vs kept Place and Title Your Poet poore Man muzeth much on little CHAPTER IX PHILADELPHVS NOW Philomathes I thinke you see howe at your Intreatie Eubulus hath clearlie aunswered vnto all your Man's Questions vvhere-of at the beginning you praesumed so much as that there were some of them to which verie hardlie hee would finde an Aunswere Philomathes Verilie Philadelphus I can not denye but that I rest greatlie Debter both to you and to Eubulus for this Dayes Communication and that so cowardlie at myne Intreatie you were induced there-vnto where-in I thinke the tyme hath beene so well spent as if it may not bee vnpleasant vnto him it may make mee to bee often heere-after a more than troublesome Interrupter of Eubulus better Thoughtes As for your Aunsweres I will not so rashlie determine what to thinke but truelie I must vprightlie confesse that I haue heard more than I expected which stirreth mee to covet yet more and will make mee carefullie to catch all Occasions to breede Eubulus farder Molestation Eubulus Your honest Heart Philomathes will make mee all-wayes glad and readie to giue you Contentment in ought I can For other-wayes truelie I vtterlie abhorre all contentious Disputation and I account all both Speach and Paper but badlie employed which is spent vpon anie of such a Disposition My Counsell vnto you and out of vpright Loue is As GOD hath given you this that you both heare and reade calmlie and carefullie So that you bee both earnest and instant in all humble and fervent Prayer vnto GOD for the Direction of HIS Holie Spirit in the right way of HIS Feare which is the onelie Way to true Illumination and not heate of Contention Bitternesse Pryde Selfe-loue and Singularitie which in GOD His justice Who resisteth the Prowde and giveth Grace vnto the Humble but involue Men still more and more in Blyndnesse and induration of Heart Philomathes I giue you heartie Thankes all-so for this your good and loving Counsell which by GOD His Grace I shall bee myndfull of and labour to followe And nowe vnto that Grace of GOD wee must even heartilie commende you For both the declyning tyme of the Day and our Effayres doe call vs another way PHILADELPHVS and EVBVLVS The BLESSING of GOD accompanie you in all your wayes and direct you in the right Path of SALVATION PHILOMATHES and ERIPHILVS a-part PHILOMATHES AND haue wee not thinke you Eriphilus spent both pleasantlie and profitablie a piece of tyme Trust mee I can not but lyke well of this Eubulus his discreet Disposition though but even now first acquaynted with him And hath hee not thinke you sayd much more in the poynts which wee haue passed both agaynst vs and for them-selues than wee could haue imagined that possiblie they might haue brought So as verilie the longer the more I am induced to thinke and see that it is a good yea a necessarie thing for Christians to bee humblie and prudentlie carefull in prooving and trying what they doe holde in Matters of Fayth where-in Men stand in no lesse hazard than of missing of or hitting on the right Way of Salvation Eriphilus I am so farre from your Temper in this matter Philomathes as by the playne contrarie I thinke wee haue badlie bestowed this Day where-in with great indignation of Heart I haue beene forced to heare the Holie Church disdaynfullie mocked and bitterlie rayled vpon So as I both blame my selfe greatlie for casting in anie such purpose and you al-so for so curiouslie insisting there-in And by this Dayes experience I perceiue well how just reason our Holie Fathers haue to interdict Catholickes absolutelie of all eyther hearing of these Heretickes or conference with
the Wyse are lyke Goades and lyke Nayles c. which are given by one Pastour Were they not I pray you the ordinarie Church-men whom the LORD rebuked for burdening Consciences with Traditions even of Fathers And were not those Traditions where-of Augustine so much lamented the imposition the Traditions of the Church Doeth not the same Father affirme That Ne Catholicis Episcopis ascentiendum sicubi falluntur ut contra canonic as Scripturas aliquid sentiant that is Wee ought not consent no not with Catholicke Bishops if they holde a◅e opinion contrarie to the canonicke Scriptures For as Cyprian sayth Consuetudo sine veritate vetustas est erroris Custome without Trueth is but Antiquitie of Errour And the Saying of Ruffinus on the Creed is notable Non dicimus Credo in Ecclesiam sed Credo Ecclesiam ne eadem vis authoritas videatur Creatoris creaturae Domini Ministrorum that is Wee say not I belieue in the Church but I belieue the Church lest one and the same might appeare to bee the power and auth◅ritie of the Creator and the creature of the LORD and of His Servantes Augustine affirmeth Licere quaslibet liter as Episcoporum ipsa consilia reprehendere si qua in ◅e a veritate devient That it is lawfull to repr◅oue what-so-ever Letters of bishops yea and the Councels them-selues if in anie thing they decly◅e from the ◅rueth Because hee who heareth the King his Ambassadour or Herauld heareth the King and who despyseth them despyseth the King haue eyther Ambassadours or Heraulds an◅ libe◅tle heere-vpon to exceede the boundes of then Commissions and Warrandes Or haue not the parties who other-wayes are holdē to heare eyther of th◅m yet place le◅t them without anie diminution of the Soveraigne Majestie and Royall Authoritie both to aske for and to examine their Warrandes Wee haue but one LORD and one Law-giver and so only doeth the contempt of our voyce touch Him if our voyce bee the Eccho of His voyce and wee speake not out of our owne imaginations Other-wayes the manie sad and serious Warninges given vs to trye spirits were vayne Then turning speach to Philomathes Eriphilus heate for your Church Philomathes hath al-most haled mee quyte from our Question You objected That all Sects pretende Scripture I answered That all pretended not Scripture onlie for that your Church joyneth and aequalleth with Scripture her owne Devyses Nowe to divert heere farder to the Question of the Churches power in this poynt and whether shee may erre or not it were to slyde away from our present poynt and I haue disputed that matter at length in my Defence of our Callinges I giue the Case then that your Church and all others acclayming the Title did pretende Scripture onelie yet it is one thing to pretende Scripture and another to haue Scripture truelie for them It is one thing to rehearse the common Creede and another thing to holde the poyntes there-of Yea and one thing to holde them falselie and but in show and another to holde them truelie One may in worde and profession holde IESVS to haue come in the flesh and yet in effect denye it and so bee an Antichrist None can call IESVS LORD but by the Spirit of GOD sayeth the Scripture and yet the same Scripture witnesseth That not al who call Him LORD shall enter into the Kingdome of Heaven If Heretickes did not pretende Scripture they could not greatlie deceiue no more than the Philistims had declared Samsons Riddle if they had not plowed with his Heyfer And this indeede were to yeelde Satan an easie victorie if because for more effectuall deceit hee maketh to cloathe him-selfe with our Weapons wee should therefore fayntlie forsake them and for-g◅e that which by our LORD is left vs for our onelie Armour Rule of our Wayes and Sole Ground and Pillar of our Fayth as sayeth Ireneus so to wander and perish in the Wildernesse of Mens Inventions Philadelphus Verilie Philomathes it is exceeding strange that your Teachers haue so farre perswaded their Disciples that reading of Scripture to Laike persons as they call them is not onelie vnprofitable for resolution but also dangerous for breeding Errours Thus verifying of themselues that saying of Ireneus speaking of Heretickes Cum ex Scripturis arguuntur in accusationem convertuntur ipsarum Scripturarum that is When they are argued by Scriptures they turne then to the accusation of the Scriptures them-selues Al-be-it wee see the Bereans are highlie praysed for searching Scripture and examining there-by what was offered vnto them and their example is registrated by the holie Ghost for a permanent instruction in such case to all succeeding Ages And it is even monstrous to consider how farre your guydes haue brought their followers not onlie to neglect but even to contemne yea and condemne in Laike men the reading of holie Scripture So as I can not tell whether with greater horrour I haue often heard their disdainful speaches against Scripture or with dolour and compassion I haue perceived how some of them presuming much of Knowledge and other-wayes prowdlie peart to prattle in Controversies of Religion and to talke at Tables of some cunned and dismembred Testimonies of the Fathers yet in the Sacred BIBLE were as great strangers as in the Alcoran Philomathes If anie man eyther speake vnreverentlie of Scripture or condemne the reading there-of by Laike persons I am not to make good for that for my selfe I both reverence them and esteeme the reading of them in Sobernesse and Humilitie to all sorts of men not onlie lawfull but also profitable and necessarie Neyther did that which I objected to Eubulus tende to draw men al-to-gether from Scripture but seeing that not onlie all Heretickes pretende Scripture each drawing out there-of a Sense for corroboration of their owne Opinions but that there is also a manifolde and great diversitie of interpretation amongst all men where-through it is cleare howe doubtfull and obscure the meaning of Scripture is It would appeare that al-be-it wee haue not to forsake or despyse Scripture yet for Resolution which is the true Sense that wee must seeke some other Rule And what can that bee else but that leaving all other Interpretations wee holde that which the Catholicke Church avoucheth Eubulus Doe you not perceiue Philomathes howe agaynst all Logicke Lawes you reduce our Disputation to a Circle and so not onelie you take that for a graunted ground which is the verie poynt in question but also fall sensiblie in that same imputation which you would appeare so much to shunne Wee are disputing Which is the true Church and haue evinced That the onelie sure way to know Her is by Scripture So as of necessitie first Scripture must leade vs to know amongst common Acclaymers which is Shee before wee can resolue to follow Her interpretation I heartilie yeelde that Her interpretation be taken but in such Dispute Who Shee is wee
must first bee assured that it is the Bryde which speaketh and not a masked Harlot vnder that name As for your Objection of Scriptures obscuritie where-vpon by accusing Scripture you would build an excuse of seeking some other Rule it both contumeliouslie taxeth GOD and is also in it selfe sophisticall It is clearlie contumelious agaynst GOD in that CHRIST commanding to search Scripture for a cleare witnessing of Him the holie Ghost affirming by Peter that the word of Scripture is a sure and shyning word by Paul that it is able to make the man of GOD wyse to everie good worke and exhorting all men praysing in all men the diligent reading and meditation there-of there-by to discerne spirites and to prooue what is propounded vnto them that David al-most all-where speaking so divinelie of the playnnesse and power there-of as where-by even a Chylde may learne to addresse his wayes Yet some of your men Philomathes are not ashamed disdaynfullie to call it a Leaden Rule and a Nose of Waxe as if the Almightie and only wyse GOD had not eyther wysely anough or lovinglie provyded for the direction of His House and that men forsooth will or can finde out a more cleare and certayne way But what-so-ever obscuritie had appeared to bee in Scripture or howe vncertayne so-ever the vayne and running Humours of men might appeare to make it by their diversitie of Interpretations yet this should ever haue religiouslietyed vs there-to that our LORD hath left it vs for a Lanterne to our Feete and sole and perpetuall Ground of our Fayth studying therefore with all humilitie cleannesse of heart and earnest prayer to attayne the knowledge there-of and not proudlie and rebelliouslie to take such counsell as did Israell in the Wildernesse Wee know not what is become of this Moses make vs therefore gods to goe before vs. The advyse of Augustine is much more both sound and sober than is that of your Church-men That in reading of Scripture if wee can not take vp the verie genuine sense and meaning of the place at least let vs not expound that place of Scripture in a sense repugning to the Analogie of Fayth So shall wee bee lyke to a man who how-so-ever hee hath aberred from the direct way yet hee wandreth in the Fields leading to the Towne where-at hee would bee I affirmed Philomathes that your Objection of Scriptures obscuritie was also Sophisticall and thus I cleare it All reason of obscuritie must bee eyther in the matter it selfe or in the manner of delyverie or in the weaknesse of their perception to whome it is delyvered Of divine thinges wee acknowledge that how-so-ever for most reall and constant existence they bee of all thinges the most certayne yet that for their retyred eminencie to all creatures of all thinges the most obscure But for the manner of deliverie as GOD in holie Scripture hath revealed them we affirme that all the wisdome and eloquence of all creatures even in a conceived matter could never haue found out so playne a manner or so farre and lovinglie haue attempered it to the capacitie of man as in so high mysteries and a constant remayning Rule of Fayth was possible And yet how-so-ever they bee thus delivered wee acknowledge that no naturall man and naturall onlie is capable of them For they are spirituallie discerned But the spirituall man by the Spirit of GOD in him will discerne the things of GOD. To reason then from the naturall obscuritie or retyred eminencie of the matter to the manner of deliverie or from the weaknesse of man's perception to conclude of the manner of deliverie or from the perception of the naturall man to conclude of the perception of the spirituall man it were al-wayes absurd Sophistication We are bolde to say with the holie Ghost That how-so-ever to most part of men the Mysteries of the Kingdome bee spoken in parables that hearing they may heare and not vnderstand and seeing they may see and not perceiue Yet That Who-so-ever doeth the will of the FATHER they will knowe the Doctrine whether it bee of GOD or whether men speake of them-selues That CHRIST HIS true Sheepe knowe His Voyce and knowe the voyce of a Stranger Wee avouch That the wordes of Wisdome are all playne to him that will vnderstand and straight to him that will finde Knowledge That Scorner seeketh Wisdome and findeth it not but Knowledge is easie to him that will vnderstand So as if the Trueth bee hid it is hid to them whose eyes the Prince of this World hath picked out and whom GOD justlie eyther for misregard or pryde of mynde hath given over to the efficacie of Errour to groape even at noone day Neyther maketh your Sophisticall Objection of diversitie of Interpretation against this for how-so-ever manie particular places in Scripture appeare still difficill and doubtfull to vs which but know in part and prophesie in part yet wee affirme with Augustine That even in those things which are playnlie set downe in Scripture are all things to bee found which contayne Fayth and Rules of living and that nothing almost is ripped out of the most obscure parts which will not bee found in some other place most playnlie spoken Philomathes To grant you even all that you haue sayde either of the plainnesse or plentifulâ—…esse of holie Scripture yet what shall you gaine there-by against our Questioner or how shall you justifie the imputations of want of Care Skill or Conscience layde on him by you seeing both our Church confesseth that the Scripture showeth which bee the true Markes of the Church and such Notes as are heere brought by our man hee prooveth them all from Scripture Eubulus How eyther proper or pertinent your Poet's Markes are which hee bringeth and how well hee prooveth them from Scripture or other-wayes wee shall see GOD willing in the particular examination of each where-by all his Corne shall bee found but Chaffe and that carelessie skillessie or fraudfullie hee hath fled the onelie demonstratiue Marke to seduce the simple with Topicall showes You say your Church acknowledgeth that by Scripture the true Marks of the Church are knowne But Philomathes they fall never to say so but when they are reduced to such straits as eyther they must say it or bee snared For their common Doctrine is well anough knowne which can so little consist with this which you haue now granted as the one evidentlie over-throweth the other For doe not your men make all the authoritie of Scripture to depende so farre on the Church her suffrage as that therefore onlie you are sure such such to be canonicke Scriptures because the Church hath so determined Thus monstrouslie you make one and the same to bee both the Mother and the Daughter and of one Philomathes But thus you taxe Augustine no lesse than vs who affirmeth that hee would not belieue Scripture if the authoritie of the Churh did
vnder Sense and so can bee no Marke at all Sophisticall for that of that which we confesse to be a true Attribute of the Church hee would conclude a discerning Marke But all Attributes are not Markes Now Eriphilus refell mine Argument or graunt mee I pray you some respite from burning for without merite you haue al-readie burned too manie vpon humour Philadelphus You could not away Eriphilus with my Sonnets but as I thinke Eubulus Syllogismes are no lesse pricking Philomathes But I pray you Eubulus how-so-ever your Reasons are subtill and I can not denye but builded vpon confessed Grounds and how-so-ever that Catholicke is an Attribute as you call it of the Church is apprehended by Fayth yet seeing that the moste approoved Fathers in their Disputations agaynst the Heretickes of their tymes doe presse them sore with the Authoritie of the Catholicke Church which they ordinarilie oppose vnto them it would appeare that they had some reason to doe so and that even Vniversalitie is in some respect a Marke of the true Church Neyther see I howe you can disapprooue our Mens Argument agaynst you brought from this Note except you will condemne those Famous and Auncient Fathers also as having vaynlie and sophisticallie reasoned for the Trueth Eubulus To cleare you Philomathes of all doubt heerein and to free our selues from anie eyther conscience of our owne guiltinesse where-fore we would reject this Reason or of anie vnreverend Opinion of those Fathers who as you truelie affirme in some Cases and Respectes did vse it the aequivocation of this word Catholicke must be opened vp where-by your Doctours willinglie illude and where-by your simple ones are vnwittinglie deceived For the Catholicke Church is of the Fathers so called eyther properlie and absolutelie or improperlie and but in some speciall Respect and Relation Absolutelie and most properlie the Catholicke Church is the whole number of what-so-ever tyme or place who haue beene are or shall bee vnited vnto CHRIST their Head and liue in Him by His Spirit whether heere on Earth fighting or hence in Heaven triumphing Absolutelie and lesse properlie the Catholicke Church is the whole militant companie heere on Earth of what-so-ever Kinred Tongue or Nation vnder one and the same common Ensigne of Christian Profession whether Hypocrites or true Professours whether pure or corrupt Worshippers whether Orthodox or Hereticall as even Bellarmine argueth Cap. 7. De Notis Eccles. In anie of which Cases shee is believed and in her Vniversalitie falleth not vnder Sense Improperlie agayne and in opposite Relation the Church is called CATHOLICKE for two Respects The one In opposite Relation to the Church of the Iewes which was limited within the compasse of one People and of one Region the Christian Church no more so confined but spread indifferentlie over all is called the CATHOLICKE CHVRCH Neyther thus because that eyther al-wayes all Peoples Vniversallie or moste parte of Men embrace the Gospell but because the Entrie is opened and offered indifferentlie vnto all The other Respect was the opposite Relation to hereticall Companies separating them-selues by Errour from the common Bodie of the Church Trueth mayntayned there-in And in this last Respect it is that al-most the Fathers cōmonlie speak of it calling the Cōmunitie of the Visible Church retayning Trueth in relation to particular hereticall Companies the CATHOLICKE CHVRCH And in this Sense opposing ordinarilie to arrogant men the Authoritie Multitude Consent Succession c. of the Catholicke Church as you haue alleadged Philomathes But in this manner of the Fathers reasoning two things are carefullie to bee marked whereby the Fathers shall bee found both pertinentlie and prudentlie to haue vsed this Argument where by your men now shall bee seene evidentlie and impudentlie to abuse it The first is that state and condition of the Church wherein this Argument hath place according as it was when the Fathers vsed it The second is what weight or moment the Fathers placed in it The state of the Church then was in common pure holding Trueth and by the force thereof purging or expelling all in-bred or accressing evils or Heresies So as then though by an improper Speach yet the Communalitie of the Church keeping Trueth in relation to a few Declyners might not impertinentlie bee called the Catholicke Church and her authoritie might well haue beene opposed vnto them But who in a plaine contrarie state and condition of the Church when Errour obtaineth in common and Trueth is afflicted and borne downe yet without consideration of the altered State and Condition would still vse the same reason from Multitude and what-so-ever or how-so-ever an obtaining State hee were a ridiculous Sophister confounding diverse and distinct times and cases To reason from the state of the Church in Ephesus where-in evill was not tollerated to the state of the Church in Smirna where-in Heretickes waxed prowde and despysed the abject state of true Professours it were sophisticall but much more sophisticall to reason from the state in Ephesus to the state in Pergamus when the true Church dwelt even where Satan's Throne was knowne to GOD though hid from the worldlie sort To reason from the Woman cloathed with the Sunne treading the Moone and crowned with twelue Starres to the same Woman lurking in the Wildernesse it concludeth not for as in the first Case the Fathers had reason and did wyselie to convince by all Advantages so whyle the Case is clearlie altered according as by Scripture was fore-tolde and Antichrist hath obtayned a Throne even in the Temple when the Evill or Gangrene in the bodie and having even over-gone the Bodie in common will contende agaynst the healthsome remnant then are wee both to leaue improper Speaches and wyselie to distinguish deceitfullie-confounded Tymes and Cases and properlie to pleade That the Gangrene in the Bodie and even affecting and over-going the Bodie in common yet is but an Adherent or accressing Evill in but not of the Bodie and That the healthsome remnant retayning the Lyfe of the Head and by vertue there-of resisting the over-going Gangrene is the true Catholicke Church And this altered Condition of Tyme and of the Church in tyme which maketh the Argument some-tyme pertinentlie vsed to bee nowe ridiculous besides that both SCRIPTVRE hath fore-tolde it the FATHERS did see the working on of it and wee haue aboundantlie often prooved and still offer to prooue it It is cleare also by that other Poynt which I propounded to bee observed in this reasoning of the FATHERS namelie What Weyght or Moment they placed in that same Argument VVhere-in they even professe That they vsed it not as an infallible demonstratiue Marke but as a Motiue vvhich beeing joyned with cleare TRVETH was worthie to bee regarded but which eyther without TRVETH or agaynst TRVETH should carrie no Credite This is evident by Augustine vsing this same Argument agaynst Faustus Manichaeus and opposing the Authoritie of the Catholicke Church Multitude Antiquitie Succession c.
this Argument as I vprightlie protest in the Presence of HIM Whome I serue in the GOSPELL of HIS Sonne That laying aside the verie selfe cleare and infallible Groundes of Trueth delivered in Scripture where-vpon agaynst all eyther Probabilities or Praesumptions our Fayth may and must solidlie relye there is no Reason in the Worlde so effectuall to assure my Soule of the Veritie of our Religion and that wee are of CHRIST His true Church as are the verie chiefe thinges which our Adversaries doe object agaynst vs. Neyther anie so pregnant a Motiue to perswade mee laying aside the consideration of their playne haereticall Opinions that they are the Antichristian Bodie as even those things where-in they doe chiefelie and most insolentlie glorie Which to cleare vnto you at such length and in such evidence as I well could and the Matter al-so requyreth it were a longer Speach than this short Occasion of Conference affordeth vs. But if you list to take paynes you may reade what I haue at more length written heereof in my DISPVTATIONS FOR OVR CALLINGES and in my COMMENTARIE on the REVELATION VVhich with the little that I haue nowe sayde when you haue more deeplie considered then if you remayne yet vnsatisfyed how-so-ever I neyther loue to contende vvith the Humourous nor to multiplye Babling vpon Blockes yet I vvill at your Desyre not sticke to take more paynes vpon your Ingenuitie Philomathes I will GOD willing reade those Bookes where-vnto you haue sharpened mine Appetite by that which you haue nowe spoken having there-by so filled mine Heart with great Doubts of such things as I accounted inexpugnable poynts that I can not choose but to insist till I bee setled as it shall please GOD to informe me in that which is the right Way of His Feare Philadelphus How invisible so-ever wee bee Eriphilus and how short so-ever you bee of sight yet I hope you may now perceiue your owne foyle in the chiefe Flowre of your Forces so as Eubulus hath not as you presumed evanished in Invisibilitie but hath made all your long and vaynlie vaunted of Visibilitie to vanish in a vayne Smoake What 's visible but there-to Visibilitie In common doth though not a-lyke conveane Why should the Bryde without all Probabilitie Visible hers then singularlie wiene Thinges visible attour are not aye seene And thinges ev'n seene yet will escape Perception Of lightned Men and what perceived beene Mules agaynst that will madlie make Exception The Church was aye seene visible perceived Of cleare but no of rakie Eyes that raved Philomathes Whether wee haue anie such Foyle as you alleadge or you such Victorie as you presume Philadelphus you are al-wayes readie to sing your owne Triumph But now al-be-it wee haue indeede al-readie passed thorow these Markes where-in wee esteeme our selues strongest and that Eubulus hath I must confesse answered more than I exspected yet I pray you let vs heare what he hath to say agaynst the rest The next Marke is VNITIE and thus our Poet speaketh of it CHAPTER VI. UNITIE THis is another Marke truelie The Church must haue VNITIE As our Saviour hath fore-tolde One Shepheard and one Sheep-folde One is my Spouse one is my Loue One is my Darling and my Doue This is His House and at some-tyme Hee doth resemble it to a Vine HIS Father is the Husband-man A Branch is everie Christian. This is HIS Bodie mysticall The which HEE doth HIS Kingdome call Where-of Saynct Peter had the Keyes And his Successours haue all-wayes This is the Pillar and the Ground Where-in all Trueth is to bee found So lyke-wyse Saynct Paul sayeth One Baptisme and one Fayth And one LORD IESU Haue no Dissention amongst you Shew mee anie Companie That in all Poyntes doe agree Except the Holie Church of Rome Then will I bee converted soone Eubulus That which as I thinke I haue evinced of all your Man 's former Marks I affirme of this also That it is impertinentlie yea falselie produced for a proper Marke of the Church in so farre as it is a common condition of manie thinges yea all thinges that are hoc ipso quod sunt anum sunt even in that they are they are in that same one as all Schooles acknowledge The Devils are vnited for Satan's Kingdome is not divided against it selfe And Briggands banded to robbe and sheede Blood are one So as still you see that your Man's mayne Proposition of his mayne Argument is vayne and sophisticall Neyther will VNITIE in all poynts ever conclude more of the Church of CHRIST than of the Antichristian bodie except VNITIE in all poynts be modified and of an indefinite VNITIE it be defined an VNITIE in all poynts of Trueth To which only demonstratiue Marke as I haue shewed of all the former so this of VNITIE must bee reduced also if there-on you would builde anie sure Conclusion For of the Antichristian Companie the holie Ghost hath in playne Tearmes fore-tolde These haue one mynde and shall giue their power and authoritie to the Beast and a little after For GOD hath put in their Hearts to fulfill his will and to doe with one consent for to giue their Kingdomes to the Beast vntill the wordes of GOD bee fulfilled And this is indeede that VNITIE where-of your Men so much glorie even a Conspiracie in Errour and no true VNITIE in Trueth as their manifolde and shamelesse Shiftings in a cleare evidence of a selfe-accusing-guiltinesse from subduing their doctrine to just examination by Scripture the sole Rule of Veritie make more than manifest Now Satan never yet envyed VNITIE in Errour or ZEALE in Superstition Philomathes Well to let this goe with you of VNITIE which you haue indeede evinced of the former that it is no proper Marke yet as I sayde and you also admitted of the others so you can not denye of VNITIE but that it is a true Attribute of the Church and that therefore our Man's Argument for the Church of Rome concludeth verie clearlie thus The Church of CHRIST must bee a Companie keeping Vnitie in all Poynts But onlie of all Companies the Church of Rome keepeth Vnitie in all Poynts There-fore the Church of Rome is the onelie true Church of CHRIST Eubulus I will not quarrell the forme of your Syllogisme for that your Assumption hath the nature of a negatiue Position I say your Proposition is sophisticall and your Assumption shameleslie false where-by your Conclusion commeth to nought As for the Proposition though you shold modifie your indefinite all Poynts to definitlie all Poynts of Trueth yet hath it in-folded a deepe Deceit For if it bee vnderstood of All Poyntes of Trueth so absolutelie as who keepe not Vnitie in all and everie poynt there-of bee excluded from the Title of CHRIST HIS Church then is your Proposition perniciouslie false And your Man would but frauduleâ—…tlie put foorth a bloodie Table of Proscription where-by cruellie to forfault manie good Christian and Church from the Communion of the Bodie