ruling Elder is set up in the church and none before after this the Deaconesse and things concerning the Kingdom that is the church administrations were given them after Christs resurrection Act 1.3 by especiall direction P. 12. It was grosse when the word Church was only taken for your places of assembly c. Dr. The denomination of your place of meeting by the name Church when the continens is used pro contento is not incongruous but consonant to Scripture 1 Cor 1.18 with 20 22. Resp Sir it is incongruous for a man to quarrel with one agrees with him and to take the word Church in Scripture only for a meeting place is worse but I think I proved to your hand more clearly or Mr Mead for me that which you here assert in the same Book p. 56. from 1 Cor 11.22 But you were weary spending any more time and ink in the reading and correcting of this smoky piece and so left off before you came to the end and saw it not or rather you dare not deal with that as with this it comes closer to your coyned government Dr. Mixt Assemblyes do not make voyd the truth of the Church if Gods Ordinances be observed therein and the true Doctrine taught and received Resp 1. This is but your saying they do not it is little worth with those argue against you especially when it is against the truth 2. Your Hypothesis is drawn aâ— impossible for God's Ordinances cannot be observed in mixed societies 3. Shew me one church constituted of the Gospel constitution of a Nationall mixt society and I will shew you all others be the contrary constituted and more then 100 years after that were approved by approved Authors Pag. 12. There are to be three distinct Teachers in every Church Dr. It is not clear that these three are to be distinct and perpetuall in ordinary all this is said at random and without ground Resp 1. Sir it is as clear as Scripture can make them yet as clear as they are I cannot make your eies see them the smoke being on them take away the smoke and they will appear to be three distinct ordinary Teachers 2. That that was ordinary in the Apostles time that is to be ordinary in every true constituted Church for ever and it hath a Gospel ground but your single ministry hath no foot for a foundation from Christ but Antichrist you acknowledge Pastors and Teachers why have ye not them set up in your societies sure it will not suit with the constitution of your Church or with your profit or something Pag. 13. Galat 2.9 James is Evangelist Peter Pastor John Teacher Dr. These things are meer fancies without any proof from Scripture and altogether inconsistent with the Apostolicall charge Resp 1. Sir what means 2 Pet 5.1 where Peter calleth himself 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 If not that in some constituted Church he was joyned with others in the ministry 2. Sir in my Treatise of The Resurrection of faln Churches I have proved by the testimony of Tertullian Ireneus and others that the Apostles were the Elders of the Church of Jerusalem men whose testimony is to be received before all the testimony of the Presbyters living 3. Is it more inconsistent with these to do thus among the Jews in the Mother Church then with Paul to do these among the Gentiles 2 Tim 1.11 and with Barnabas Peter and Iohn with Philip at Samaria Act 8.14.25 and why not at Ierusalem â—r Doctor Pag 13. That the Gospel was preached in the Synagogue as to mixt multitudes Dr. These proofs are such silly inferences that it is tedious to reflect upon them and examine them they are even ridiculous Resp Sir you are not the first have made a mock at the truth of the Gospel their disputing and reasoning differâ—d from Church teaching as a work of the Catechist which when men were sufficiently wrote on were separated from the multitude to the believers society as in the Acts 18.4 7 11. and is a thing deserves more study then you are willing to spare about it because it is opposite to your present designs Pag 14. the second part of ministry c. L. 1. Dr. This doth contradict that which he hath been saying all this while his argument formerly taken from the order of words for if the Doctor be the second part of the ministry next the Evangelist then the Pastor is not the second to the Evangelist but these are groundlesse whimseys Resp In the end of the page before I shewed from the words of Christ Math 23.11 He that is greatest amongst you shall be your servant Where I observed Christ shews the Evangelists work was to make way for the Church constitution and so ministred to the Teacher and Pastor And when the Church came to be constituted and that there were men fitted for the Evangelists ministry then some other was constituted to do that work without the Church and the Evangelist did minister the perfecting ministry to the strong men in Christ in which work the Pastor is next him though in the other his ministry preceded the Doctor And this is the groundlesse whimsey which was the practice of the Apostles in their ordinary ministry Paul taught at Corinth before he baptized and then baptized and when the church is constituted he leaves baptizing and that ministry and Evangelizeth 1 Cor 1.14 17. Act 18.4 7 8. Pag 14. Of Iames and Iohns Epistle Dr. The difference of Iames and Iohns stiles the one reproving of vices and faults sharply and the other perswading powerfully to the improvement of grace is no argument of any such thing as he would have inferred that he was a Doctor to the Jewish church in particular But indeed these things are so weak and silly that they are not worth the answering Resp See how this silly man makes the difference of the doctrine to be only in the stile as if the condition of the persons required it not as if any man in that society and to that people Iohn taught might have taught that Doctrine and applyed there that Iames taught â—t è contrario Mark 3.17 was not Iohn as well as Iames the son of thunder Think you among the Apostles was no other conduct of spirit then in your confused Babylonish teaching See if any Epistle writ to any church be like this of Iames Shew any ground from Iames Epistle that it was written to a constituted church I think I shall shew you shortly 20. why it was not P. 14. The whole Doctrine is for Babes Dr. The Apostle writes to young Men and to Fathers as well as to Babes how then is the whole Doctrine for Babes alone but this is like all the rest Resp 1. The Apostle as Apostle had an extraordinary call to write to Fathers and young Men of the Church as wel as Babes 2. That he writes to these is contained all in chap 2. vers 14. Now what and how much of Doctrine
Gospel order for as in Nature a man is first a child before a man though in honour a man is mentioned before a child so in the spirituall estate of Christians likewisâ— 3. As for that the Evangelist is said to be double I have already answered it to an objection already made there-against P. 16. Dr. All these following conjectures are so silly and so little worth the consideration that no wise man will spend time to refute them Resp Sir I did not spend the hundreth part of time to refute your prudential Presbyterian Government which hath but little of the Gospel patern in it at all Sir I tooke it a broad call your brethren to put it together againe if you can I provoke you to it and do not blind the eyes of the world and say They are silly things I will charge you with it your Wit and Learning cannot do it and therefore to save your credit you slight it but this will not serve you alway there is a day comming God will call you to an accompt for your Stewardship Luke 16.2 P. 16. on Colos 3.10.12.15 Dr. What he meanes by this example and to what purpose it is alledged I know not but I am sure he makes inferences from the Apostles words which are meer fancies and no wayes consistant with the Apostles mind in this place alledged for the Apostle doth not speak of the estate of the Church as it was a society but of the duty of every beleever as he is a member in Christ Resp 1. For the alledging it I did it to that purpose before I ever read Dionysius that he doth who shall tell you for me why I alledged it Dionysius chap. 6. Eccl. Hierar prioris autem vestis posiâ—io alteriusque assumptio migrationem illam à media vita licet sacra ad perfectionem significat sicut in divina regeneratione promotionem judicabat a purgata vita ad contemplautem illuminanâ—emque habitum illa vestis caudentis immutatio This was a received truth when Presbyterian Government as now it is was hid in the bottome of that bottomlesse pit 2. That the Church here is spoken of as to a Society I will maintaine according to my brief Analisis and exposition made on the whole Epistle in my Treatise of The Resurrection of fallen Churches as is made to appear which I provoke you to object against if you can P. 17. Dr. Suppose all these in the Paragraphs to be true how will the inference be made good that an Evangelist is a perpetual and ordinary ministry in the Church Resp 1. Methinks you should deal honestly with the truth and say they are true or shew wherein they are false to what purpose is your arguing in this kind else 2. How the inference will be made good that the Evangelist is a perpetual ordinary officer lieth at the Assembly door proved in my Letters waiting when you wil be at leisure to give them an Answer anâ— especially in that particular we have a proverb no man is so blind as he that will not see you need not enquire how Mr Doctor P. 17. 1 Thes 2.1 Our entrance Dr. From the particle our to infer were ministers joyned with him is no true ground the Apostle speaks of himself alone in the plurall number in many places 2 Cor. 10.1 2 3 4. and chap. 1. v. 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 and elsewhere Resp 1. That the Apostle in this place had others joyned with him is clear Eph. 2.19 Paul Silvanus Timothy are those he calleth us and our in the whole Epistle 2. The Apostle speakes indeed himself but for Timothy and himself Timothy is joyned with him 3. By that chap. 1. with that whole leâ—ie of verses in our is the Church mentioned 〈◊〉 as in we Timothy and Paul in verse 1. Which proves he had others joyned with him and reason and sence will tell wherein ministers are one in the Scripture sence P. 18 Apply hence we may c. Dr. From the premises you may as wel conclude that there is a four-fold or five-fold administration in the ministry for if the number of Pauls co-adjutors be the medium of the argument then so many helpers as he had so many administrations there are hence it is clear you are an exâ—reamly weake man Resp Sir would it not be a wonderful shame that such a stronge man like that Philistime should be overcome by weak means nay weaknesse it self Sir if you wil not boggle with the truth I wil mainetaine that the Apostles helpers are the medium of the argument so that you understand it of such as at one and the same time and in one Church only did help him in the Ministry but who would think you would take all 〈◊〉 his helpers in several Churches to be accounted of as in one Church doe you 〈◊〉 the word in simplicity and Godly sincerity now I appeal to God and your conscience in these things P. 18. Comming to shew how the Extraordinary and Ordinary Administrations differ Dr. Haec omnia gratis dicta and doe not conâ—â—â—â— with that which hath been said formerly Resp Et tibi gratis concessa for before I only spake of the ordinary Church Ministry now of ordinary and extraordinary also and so you are never the wiser At first Christ administred to Apostles Apostles and Prophets to Evangelist Pastors and Teachers Evangelists to men Pastors to youth Teachers to infants Object You inserted not the Pastor and his administration Resp As the Apostle 2 Tim. 1.12 putting downe the two extreams of the Church Ministry comprehends the rest so in the first and last of the ordinary Church ministry is comprehended the middle P. 19. Dr. These allusions are no ground for a divine institution which at all hath not been shewed Ergo Resp Allusions nor nothing besides are any thing with you that serve you not Rom. 2.20 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 where the Babe is under the Teachers ministry or administration the Pastor helps on to perfect us as youth that under the administration of the Evangelists ministry we may be men in Christ Eph. 4.11.12.13 applied to the whole Church ministry P. 21. John 21.15 16 17. Dr. This is like the rest of your arguments to find Misteries where there are none and to build arguments upon them is all along your way it may be granted and is a truth that there is a distinction between Lambs and Sheep and between theâ— feeding and feeding of Sheep 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 differunt modo the first is properly to feed them with meat the other rule and guide them but all these duties are recommended to one and the same man and this instalement of Peter in his office by sufficient grounds to infer that which you would gather from thence in the same Pastoral and Doctrinal charge and this is to be done without the coyning of a new office Resp Mr. Doctor you must
be more and it was aproperty of the Evangelists office as distinct from the rest and extraordinary to be fixed to no place but to be fellow helpers to the Apostles 2 Cor. 8.23 Resp 1. Reader see how willing the Doctor is to catch at flies and observe the thing he quarrels at is no saying of mine but Chrysostomes on Eph. 4.11 qui occupabantur circa unum duntaxat locum ut Timotheus ac Titus he speaking before of Evangelists 2. For his Scripture being more to be looked after then his arguments 2 Cor. 8.23 Titus is Pauls fâ—llow-helper here he is not called an Evangelist nor was he but Pastor or Teacher in the Church with him onely 2 Tim. 4.5 Paul being to die bid him do the worke of an evangelist and before that time with Paul he never did it Paul in fellowship did that worke P. 7. Dr. Rule of the Schools is true quod Theologia Symbolica est argumenâ—â—tiva Resp Sir I despise not Learning nor the Schooles but the too much tying of men to the Rules of Schooles took away all knowledge and made men fooles heretofore I thinke no Scripture but is argumentive unlesse by the Scripture you overthrow my argument this is a fine way of Answering objections approved in the Schools but not in the Church P. 8. Dr. John's Ministry was medium quid inter legem Evangelium and made both one in that which was substanciall unto both Resp I approve of your learned distinction well which was in my Book made thus to your hand in English that he was not of Moses Ministry Mat. 11.13 nor of Kingdome Ministry ver 11. 2. But that he made both 〈◊〉 that is the Ministry of both one is a thing found out by long study in the Assembly who have found a way to make one two and two one as the Doctor in the Church and the Doctâ—r in the University to be meant in Epb. 4.11 as in your Propositions or for what end is it set there but to blind the world Dr. This is a silly weak Criticisme and there is more inferred upon it then it wil bear 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 differ only in modâ— the same word is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as it is publiquely declared in the name of God it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and as it is declared to men that are ignorant thereof it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 there is therefore no ground for a different administration for he that in respect of God is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in respect of men is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Resp 1. Sir If I did criticie it was not wilfully and so it may well be weakly but you do it over and over I do not tell you it is sillily done sure I am you have overdone it I am loath to shew you least you should be ashamed at it 2 Tim. 1.11 Paul is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 here lest you criticks of the Assembly should make the ministry without the Church and that within the Church one he puts the Apostle between to keep them asunder and prove them too 2. Here in respect of God he is not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is false Doctrine Mr Doctor the Apostle saith as Preacher and Teacher he was both in respect of his ministry to men onely and that in differing wayes of ministry the one before the Church ministry which began in the Apostles and ended in the Teachers so that my silly weak Criticism hath the strength of a Gospel truth in it and seemes to beat down your Antichristian Church administration Dr. The arguments which are taken from the order of words and names are of no force except the Scripture adde some Characteristicall note thereunto to expresse that it doth intend the order should be observed as in Eph. 4.11 it doth adde onely a note of distinction but in the 1 Cor. 12.28 it adds a note of order first second third and now Pastors and Teachers are not expressely distingished and from the other as the Apostles Prophets and the Evangelists are and whereas Eph. 4.11 Pastors are named before Teachers 1 Cor. 12.28 only Teachers are named and Evangelists and Pastors are not at all so that in the order of words there can be no great matter to ground such an inference upon Resp Mr Doctor you know my means is short so that I cannot be as large to satisfie the world or you as I would but thus briefly thus before you perverted the Scripture now you seek to take away the glory of it Sir the word is divine not only materialiter but 〈◊〉 formaliter and yet you dare say arguments are not to be taken from the order of words and then come to set Ephesians and Corinths one to oppose the other when indeed they both oppose you shewing you none but Apostles are of the first ranke and so are distinct from Prophets of the second for the third they are all Teachers among which the Evangelist is one with the Pastor and Teacher of which one is not more extraordinary then the other Sir pray see my Letters to the Assembly these are both at large and satisfactorily laid down in them 2. You observe the Pastors and Teachers are not distinguished by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as the Evangelists and Pastors yet you and the grossest Papists allow of Pastors and Teachers not distinguished but confound Evangelists that are is this of God in your Assembly P. 9. Now for an insertion laid downe in my Book that the Ministry without the Church is to be continued stil to prepare for the Church ministry Mr Doctor saith this consequence is so very weake that it deserveth no answer and the ground of it is taken away by what hath been said before Resp Mr Doctor hath quickly done with the businesse but I cannot but wonder that wise men should dally with the truth and deceive the world That Scripture 2 Tim. 1.11 will one day rise in judgement against some men of these dayes I pray look unto it well you that are concerned in it Dr. If a calling of men fitly qualified and setting them apart according to the word maketh men ministers then we have a ministry but the antecedent is true Ergo the Conseâ—ence Resp I denie your major first that your calling is not according to the word nor are you set a part according to the word nor are you members of a true visible constituted Church and so cannot be in that kind fitly qualified but of this pray see my book called The mistery of the Ministry Dr. Also the office of a Pastor and Teacher is undoubtedly ordinary and by his owne confâ—ssion it presupposeth a Church in which it is exercised hath not the Church continued ever since the Apostles Resp I would you would learn to confesse the truth also as I do but Sir though I confesse they are ordinary Teachers yet I confesse not
we take your words to be divine Oracles it is enough but methinks it were more like your selfe to say thus saith the Lord not I as faithfull Paul said or else say thus saiâ— I and not the Lord but you will say I say this now and anon you will say God said but if God had said so you would not have weakened your cause so as to say I say 1 Pet. 4.10 as every man hath received the gift that is the ministerial call from the Church so minister the same not other gifts by your leave of this I writ fully in my Letters I wonder I do not hear from you I fear some private papers in the darke as this are sent abroad by you to catch silly soules withall Dr. If God send forth fellow-labourers 〈…〉 they are to do their work joyntly and distinctly according to their Talent which they shall have and shall make them fittest for service the Apostle 1 Tim 3. Tit 1. where he expresly doth institute the appoyntment of Church Officers doth name none but Presbyters and Deacons and under that name comprehends Pastors and Teachers not in distinct but in the same persons although if God send forth more labourers then are in a particular Vineyard they may apply themselves distinctly more to one then to the other as their Talents make them fittest for service but if there be no more then one alone sent forth he is to deal as the severall objects and occasions require his service Resp Sir your joyntly which you allow to the Gospel labourers is of necessity you cannot deny that for the Scriptures are so clear but your leaven lyeth hid yea you allow they must do it distinctly also but joyntly in a Nationall Church distinctly in a Parochiall otherwise it cannot be understood in your societies Did Paul Sylvanus Timothy do their work thus Nationally Mr Doctor You have not these in any Church who should have them in all And after again you say the word Presbyter comprehends Pastors and Teachers not in distinct but the same persons I hope when you read this again you will be ashamed of it As for your conceit of a particular Vineyard and applying themselves more to one then another hath no ground or proof from Scripture and then you tell us of the sending out of 〈◊〉 Labourerâ— Scripture speaks of no such thing P. 25. The true and false ministry are distinguished from the differing materials 1 Cor 3.12 Dr. This is your ordinary fault to lay too much weight upon Metaphoricall and Allegoricall speeches Resp Sir the Kingdom of God was set out in Allegories and is in especiall manner if ever to be known to be known from them Satan now to keep this Kingdom hid hath taught men a long time to deny any argument to be deduced from them to prove any thing at all by But Sir why not from them Is it not the Word of God And is not the Kingdom and mysteries thereof laid up in them It cannot be denied but thence a discovery comes to be made against the present practice Indeed if you will say because they are not understood we cannot argue from them it were something and so may be said of all the Scriptures Dr. You stretch the matter beyond the Apostles scope and so you do continually in all this discourse Resp Mr Doctor Lis coram judicibus est Dr. It is clear the Apostle doth presuppose that the same man may at one time build hay at another stubble and at another wood and the same man may build gold and silver and precious stones at different times nay and this is clear that at one time a man may build gold and silver and at another hay and stubble You stretch the Apostles words beyond his scope and rack them to another purpose then the Holy Ghost doth intend and then in all this following discourse you make upon this sandy ground a building of fantasticall conjectures to prove your poynt Resp Mr Doctor your single stubble ministry may some of them not at one time build gold and silver and at another hay and stubble but gold silver hay wood and stubble at oâ—â—â— teaching for ought I know Sir the question hangs on these 1. Where there were a single ministry at Corinth to do this or not or your supposition is nothing and your doctrine false and Antichristian that is worse 1 Cor 1.12 and chap 4.6 15. chap 12.9 2. Where Paul in his Epistle doth not endeavour to describe the false Church ministry and their work from the true and their work both ministring in Corinth or not as in his second Epistle written from Philippy as the first was in which this is opened clearly 2 Cor 11.4 where the Teacher of each society is applyed unto who is said to teach Jesus the foundation yea and the Gospel which Paul taught but in a corrupt way as vers 3. He was afraid lest their minds were corrupted from the simplicity of Christ And now lest the Apostle should be thought to aim at one individuall person in the word he vers 3. compares vers 13 14. Satans Ministers to the Ministers of Christ for number order way of ministry as Paul in the Gospel had taught to be Or who knoweth not that the Church of Corinth could not so easily be seduced by them 3. But that this is not meant of a single ministry as the Doctor dreams I commend to his consideration 1 Cor 3. vers 13. The fire shall try every mans work of what sort it is 1. Here is every man not one mans work then is applyed to 2. Every mans work is of one of these sorts and not one mans of all of these sorts as Mr Doctor I will not say fantastically conjectures 3. Vers 14. If any mans work abide Vers 15. If any mans work shall be burnt See Reader how corrupt the Doctors exposition is and contrary to the Scripture by his doctrine no mans work shall abide his ministry builds hay wood anâ— stubble nor no mans work be burned for again his ministry builds gold silver precious stones Mr Doctor your doctrine is wooden doctrine at last you will suffer losse by it P. 26. 1 Cor 4.6 These things have I transferred to my self and Apollo Dr. The Apostle transferred the things he spake of his Stewardship of the Apostleship received of God and of his faithfulnesse therein to himself and to Apollo to teach the Corinthians not to be puffed up so one against another and that they should not esteem more of any man then they ought But you run out into endlesse mistakes and mis-applications of the Apostles meaning and confound the places together which have quite different scopes Resp 1. If the Doctor writes two leâ—â—es for refutation to help fill up the margent of my Book he writes two or three of bombast railing accusations without giving reason as here you confound places together but noâ— shew where Sure he had no leisure to shew in