Selected quad for the lemma: ground_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
ground_n	apostle_n	church_n	true_a	1,505	5	5.2874	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A70165	Iudahs ioy at the oath layd out in a sermon on the 2 Chro. 15, 15 for Englands example in embracing the parliamentary covenant with readinesse and rejoycing : hereunto is annexed a briefe and moderate answere to The protestation protested, discovering the unsoundnesse of that interpretation of the nationall covenant, and the weaknesse of the grounds there suggested for separate and independant churches / by Iohn Geree ...	Geree, John, 1601?-1649.	1641 (1641)	Wing G597; ESTC R16455	37,528	68

Answerably there may be conceived a two fold separation One generall of all the wicked the other speciall of those that are scandalous This Parable treates of a generall Separation of all the wicked from the godly which is here denyed to belong to the State of the Church in this world not of the particular Separation of the evill scandalous by some crime which elsewhere is required to be done by Church censures And in this Answere I am fully confirmed by this Argument Church censures are an Ordinance that is to be used not only for the separating of Tares but Wheate for a time nay sometimes of Wheate not Tares for excommunication is for those that are scandalous now a man may be in the judgment of charity godly in regard of his estate in generall and yet in some particular scandalous and so need and deserve excommunication And a man may be so meerly formall that in the judgment of charity hee cannot be deem'd godly and yet he may be faire-conditioned without crime and without scandall here the Tares will scape and the Wheate undergoe Separation and therefore sith the Separation here inquired of is of another nature then that which is effected by Church censures to exclude Church censures by it is to rack it and wrest it beyond its scope I have stuck the longer in this because this is the Cardo Controversiae the Hing on which the rest is turned now I proceed He after makes great complaint of the State of our Church to which I so far consent that I could wish with Ieremy my head waters and mine eyes fountaines to send forth rivers of teares for the breakers of Gods Law But he takes up afterward and tells us that like Sardis we have a few names which have not defiled their garments and the way of reformation he prescribes it by separating these few names into a new Church for which he cites 2 Cor 6 17. But stay is this Christs way doth he so counsell the Church of Sardis if so I will yeeld if not is not this way of his humane presumption exalted against the wisdome of Christ Now Christs Counsell is to repent of the evill hold fast the good ver 3. to strengthen the things that are ready to die ver 2. but not a word of separating the few How dare any then presume to do it I have often sought and long a resolution of this doubt but could never yet finde it but this Author thinkes he hath found a command 2 Cor. 6 17. Come out from among them and be yee separate A strange thing saith he be yee separate but a strange proofe say I That a command to Christians to come out from among Heathen Idolaters and not to touch any sinfull thing should be thought to prove it the duty of Christians to be separate from formall prophane Christians and not to touch any holy thing with them what proportion is here for an inference And for my part I must confesse I have wondred to see men so strict in this that they will not joyne in holy duties with the Prophane which yet I see make no scruple to joyne in following vaine fashions with them which was wont to be counted an uncleane thing But this is further confirmed by a direction to Ieremy Ier. 15 20. If thou take forth the precious from the vile but this is likewise as unfit a shaft for his Bow for Ieremy lived in a Nationall Church in which such a Separation as here this disputer strives for he confesseth is not requisite nor was it practised by Isaiah 8 18. though he had occasion or by any other I marvaile then that this Author or any other should bring this place of Ieremy to prove their Separation There is a Doctrinall Separation which is required in every Minister if he divide the word of truth aright and that we are bound to as well as Ieremy and the Godly Ministers do carefully performe but for such a Separation as this Protestor requires here can be no ground for which they affirme was not required from the Church of the Iewes But it is further affirmed that after such an Apostacy as ours Churches must be gathered anew as when the Apostles planted Churches where the Gospell had not been Preacht this is onely dictated without proofe and yet is neither true nor probable there being so wide a difference betweene our Nation now and when Ioseph of Arimathea first planted the Gospell in it when it was purely Paganish besides If this were requisite then must God also give Ministers qualified to gather Churches and not only to goe on in the ordinary worke of the Ministry that is Ministers indued with extraordinary guifts having immediate callings to Preach where they will without the leave of men with extraordinary assistance without which ordinarily no liberty can be expected to gather Churches till therefore I see the like guifts and callings in some measure I shall not beleeve the like worke or duty to lye on Ministers now But some may aske what shall then be done A. Can we have better Counsell then was given to Sardis by Christ Iesus our blessed Lord and Prophet and that is to repent of what hath beene amisse publik humiliation may fit publike transgression which the Parliament may be intreated to apply to this malady and then not separate from but labour to strengthen and rectifie that which is ready to die The Parliament are about a great and good worke of removing erroneous and scandalous Ministers and seting up godly and learned lights every where and withall giving or confirming rather power to the godly Pastors to keepe off those that are unfit for the Sacrament by grosse ignorance or scandalous life by which meanes Parishes that are already taught may be quickly brought into for better order and those that are not may by teaching be brought to some good measure of understanding and desire of the Sacrament and some at least outward Reformation before they be required or admitted to Communion in the Sacramēt But here we have another Quaere what we shall doe where prophane and ignorant persons are permitted Pell Mell to which he Answers that if Gods Ordinance be Prophane as they are by ignorant and prophaned persons coming to the Lords Table then others also that Communicate with them are guilty of the same prophanation What is this so without any exception prophane and ignorant persons prophane the Word and Prayer and Fasting and these are Gods Ordinances cannot we performe this with them but bee guilty this is new doctrine In the Church of Sardis to which he did compare us were the few names guilty of that prophanation which the rest must needes doe doe not the Scriptures shew the contrary Revel 3 4. their Garments were undefiled is there no other way to keep our selves free from pollution but separation what if we endeavor to remove the prophane is not that a better course and that which was the burthen

they thinke and justly That the use of the Liturgy in the whole forme of it as a compleate service of GOD to be many waies vitious yet they think the use of some of the formes there which are without exception and most suited to the peoples wants to be in themselves lawfull Notwithstanding though not for his Arguments to prove them Popish yet for the exposition of the Protestation they refuse them and not only refuse them but lay imputation on those that use them as breakers of their Vow and Protestation Now as I have proved no use of the Service-Book is against the Protestation so nor the use of some prayers in such a manner out of the Booke can as I conceive be justly termed Popish for suppose that the forme we use be in the Masse-Book why may we not aswell ask the same Christian Graces that Papists and we both conceive to be necessary to a Christian soule as expresse the same faith touching the Trinity or any other point wherein we agree in the same words and that without the guilt or imputation of Popery And againe he that doth thus use the Booke not according to the whole frame of it but selecting what is most holy nor according to the set words of it but with liberty of correcting the expressions which to our times seeme harsh and unsutable doth hereby as I conceive avoid his second Argument the imposition makes it not Popish to him because he useth it with liberty of conscience To this we may add further There is I conceive a true and usefull distinction to be made of humane constitutions some are helps and so are in genere boni good in their kind the other have no ground but meere imposition and so are in genere mali in their kind evill Now formes of Prayer are humane helps and so good in their kind Prayer is an Ordinance of GOD it requires a forme of words especially in publique all men are not able to conceive a forme and therefore a composed forme to them is an helpe The forme of words in Prayer is not the service but modus the manner of serving God in that Ordinance and so good in its kind Now for the Governors of the Church where there is need of a form to tye to one forme which they conceive pure of purpose to exclude others which they conceive corrupt is I conceive no usurpation upon Christ And this was the end of our Godly reformers in appointing this Prayer Booke Now though many men need not this helpe and it may be can conceive better expressions yet being that formes are human helps and not in themselves evill I conceive we may use some of the Prayers without sin for though it s often said that we may not do evill that good may come thereon yet I never heard it proved that we may not sometime do a lesse good and not the greater for peace and order and to enjoy the greater good at other times more fully and freely This giveth me satisfaction and I beleeve many godly and so prevents division from the Church Assemblies which is desirable for breaches if they be not necessary are justly scandalous If any dissent from us we shall be more ready to contend with GOD then them with God I say that he would move the Parliament to remove this forme so excepted against and corrupt in the generall composure of it and what ever other they prescribe not exactly to tie the well guifted to it but leave a liberty to vary as God shall enable them as I have heard it hath been in our deare Sister Church of Scotland Or if they tie them to any forme that they will rather tie them to the matter then the words to prevent the broaching of errors in Prayers which some thinke was the first occasion of set formes There be Haereticall Prayers as well as Sermons A Socinian may vent his Haeresy against the person of Christ or the grace of Christ An Anabaptist may vent his Haeresy against the Magistrates of Christ or Ordinances of Christ in his Prayer as well as Preaching therefore the Governors may justly tie them to set heads of Prayer though they leave a liberty to the able to use their own expressions so Haeresy shal be prevented and no breach of liberty justly pretended but this I refer to the wisdome of that Honorable Court Another Evill of this Treatise which needed cure it hath bred in some and nourisht in others an opinion that our Churches are not Churches nor our Ministers true Ministers nor our Sacraments to be participated without sinne whereby some are drawne to and others confirmed in a neglect of the servants and service of God which is no small evill that deserveth cure Give me leave therefore a little to examine his grounds His first assay against our Churches is in the close of the proose of his third point the Discipline of our Church to be Antichristian whence he concludes we want Discipline and from the Book-prayer and pell mell admission to the Sacrament he affirmes in his judgment we want true Sacraments and that the Preaching of the word be generally corrupted then it wants a third marke of a Visible Church for answere I conceive a distinction suggested by the assertor of the Scotch Discipline to be very true and here pertinent P. 196. A Visible Church may be considered either Metaphysically or politically It is one thing to consider men as living Creatures indued with reason another thing to consider them as Magistrates Masters Fathers servants c. So it is one thing to consider a Visible Church in her essentialls as a Society of men and women separated from the blind world by divine vocation and professing together the Gospell of Iesus Christ another thing to consider it as a compleate politicall body in which the power of Spirituall government and jurisdiction is exercised som governing some governed Now a Church that wants government or hath one that is corrupt may be a true Church in the former sense though not in the latter being a tru Church in the former sense her mēbers may communicat together in these holy things which fall under the power of order which may be called Sacra mystica as word prayer Sacraments though not insuch things as are under the power of jurisdiction For his objections about Sacraments the first I hope hath received already sufficient answere For his second objection of Pell mell admission to the Sacrament if he dispute against the Church of England in generall he must consider what her Lawes are not what the practise of some is It s true the Law enjoynes all to come but it s as true that the same Law forbids those that are in contention or are otherwise offensive to the Congregation to be admitted till satisfaction given So the command is generall that men may not be let alone in prophanenes and the admission is restrained that men may not