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A14184 A demonstration of the trueth of that discipline which Christe hath prescribed in his worde for the gouernment of his Church, in all times and places, vntill the ende of the worlde Wherein are gathered into a plaine forme of reasoning, the proofes thereof; out of the scriptures, the euidence of it by the light of reason rightly ruled, and the testimonies that haue beene giuen therevnto, by the course of the churche certaine hundredths of yeares after the Apostles time; and the generall consent of the Churches rightly reformed in these latter times: according as they are alleaged and maintained, in those seuerall bookes that haue bin written concerning the same. Udall, John, 1560?-1592. 1588 (1588) STC 24499; ESTC S103026 63,031 134

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perpetuall 4 That whose seuerall parts is perpetuall which hath perpetuall gifts giuen for the furnishing thereof for euer that same must needs be perpetuall But the seuerall parts of the Eldership as pastour doctour and Elders be perpetuall as is proued in the 10. 12. chap. Therfore the Eldership is perpetuall 5 Whatsoeuer is grounded vpon the generall commaundements and rules of the scriptures that same is perpetuall But the gouerning of the Church by the Eldership is such as hath partly bene prooued in election and ordination and execution of the seuerall Churche offices which is the greatest part of gouernement and shall further appeare in the censures of the Church hereafter Therfore the gouernment of the Church by the Eldership is perpetuall 6 Whatsoeuer manner of gouernment hath sufficient power and that from God to begin continue and strengthen both the gouernors of the Church in their callings and the people in the course of obedience vnto Christe that same gouernment is to be perpetual But such is the gouernment by the Eldershipp as appeareth by this that the Apostles vsed no other Therefore the Eldership is to be perpetuall 7 That gouernment which the 12. Apostles and Paule before they consulted together did vniformly agree in that same must needs be of God and consequently perpetuall vnlesse the repealing of it doe appeare but suche is the gouernement by the Eldership for all the aduersaries therevnto confesse that it was in the Apostles time Therefore it is perpetuall 8 Whatsoeuer hath the same grounds that the preaching of the word and ministration of the sacramentes haue the same is perpetuall But such is the gouernment of the Eldershipp for it is grounded vpon the commaundements of Christ and practize of the Apostles Therefore it is perpetuall 9 That which hath the like groundes to bee perpetuall that the Apostles prophets and Euangelists had to be for a time the same is perpetuall But suche is the gouernement of the Church by an Eldershipp which appeareth by this that they are therefore ceased because their gifts of imediate calling c. be gone and the gifts of these ioyntly and seuerally doe remaine Therefore it is perpetuall 10 Whatsoeuer is the perpetuall and ordinary remedie to cure diseases of the Church strengthen the health of the same that same is perpetuall But suche is the gouernement by the eldershipp as appeareth by the necessitie and profite of the seuerall offices thereof and of this that we are still to obserue in causes of extremities Tell the Church Matth. 18. 17. Therefore it is perpetuall 11 That gouernement whiche was in the Church appoynted of God vnder the Law and continued in respect of the substance by christ and his Apostles and bettered in respect of the accedents by them that same is perpetuall But such is the gouernment by the Eldership as appeareth in the 12. reason of the 1. chap Therefore it is perpetuall 12 If there be any reason why this gouernment should be alterable being once set in the Church by Christ it is eyther in respect of the extraordinary offices ceased or the addition of the magistrate But not of the former because the Churche hath neuer had any neede of extraordinary giftes but God hath giuen them so will hee euer nor of the latter for that the magistrates office is to defende the buylding of the Church by that order which Christe hath set downe and not to alter any thing therein Therefore it is perpetuall 13 Eyther this gouernement is the best and perpetuall or els there is none and so Christe should be thought to haue left his Church with out a gouernement which is disprooued in the 7. 8. reasons in the 1. chap. for this was once established by Christ and so was no other But some gouernment must needes be the best and and perpetuall Therefore this is perpetuall 14 No man may iustly forbidd speaking of the church gouernment to returne to the old constitution of the churche of God and to receiue it before the custome of men 15 Experience teacheth this order speaking of the church gouernment was not for on age but necessary to all ages 16 Though the common wealth change hir gouernement yet the church must keepe hirs still 17 Lamenteth that some were found among thē that are esteemed forwardest which would not haue the same discipline vsed now a dayes that was in the Apostles times obiecting the difference of times and men 18 The Apostles haue written these lawes speaking of Discipline not for a daye or for the firste age but to endure for all times to come and therefore haue ●atified them with a most earnest obtestation 1. Tim. 6. 14. that these commandements should be kept vntill the day of the Lord. Therefore if the causes of once or dayning an Eldership be perpetuall if Christ be the author of it and left it in the Church by the Apostles if it be Gods commandement not yet repealed if the parts of it and gifts for it be perpetuall if it bee grounded vppon the generall commandements and rules of the scriptures if it haue sufficient power from God to begin continue and confirme a church if it was agreed vpon by the 12. Apostles Paule before they met together if it haue the same grounds with the preaching of the worde if it haue as good grounds to be perpetuall as the Apostles c. to be for a time if it be the perpetuall remedie against all the diseases of the Church if it was vnder the law and inriched by Christe his Apostles vnder the Gospell if it be neyther alterable in respecte of the extraordinarie offices ceased nor the magistrate added to the Churche if it be the onely gouernement that challengeth authoritie from God if no man may iustly forbidd it if it be necessarye for all times if the common wealth may chaunge hir gouernment but not the Church if the difference of times and men be nothing against it lastly if the rules that the Apostles gaue for it be confirmed with a charge to bee kept vntill the comming of Christ then must it needs follow that the gouernment of the Church by an Eldership ought to be perpetuall They obiecte that many inconueniences would follow vpon this gouernement which are seuerally to be answered 1 Obiection By this euery parrish shal follow their Seniors and then there will be so many Elderships so many diuers fashions seeing one may not meddle with another Ansvvere The gouernement desired is vniforme for euerye Churche and admitteth no change no not in outward ceremonies without a synode of the choyce men of seuerall Elderships 2 Obiection If they being al mean men chuse an Earle he may not refuse but be at their beck and commandement Ansvvere No man that is chosen is compelled to an office against his will but he that despiseth to consult with others in Gods matters because they bee poore reprocheth God that made
such is the matter of excommunication being the denouncing of that against a man which he will most hardly beleeue being the wayghtiest poynt of discipline Therefore it may not be done by one man 4 Those must excommunicate that are to deale in the other partes of discipline as shall appear in the resons following and as I think no man will denie But the other partes of discipline are exercized not by one but by the Church as hath bene prooued Therefore not one but the Church is to excommunicate 5 As it was ministred among the Iewes so must it be in the Church for euer which appeareth by this that it is translated vnto vs from them as the Greeke word Synedrion being by a corrupt imitation called Sanedrim by the Rabbins doth import and had nothing ceremoniall in it But it was executed among them by the Church and not any one Iohn 9. 22. Therefore the Church is to excommunicate and not one man 6 Sayth he would neuer do any thing in his charge without the counsell of his Elders and consent of the people 7 The elders other church-officers ha●e as wel power to obsolue as the byshop 8 For so much as absolution belongeth vnto all I alone dare not do it 9 If there be any that haue committed such a fault that he is to be put away from the partaking of the prayers of the Church c. There do be are rule certayne of the most approoued auncients or elders of the Church which haue obtayned this honour not by money but by good report 10 It helpeth much to make the party more ashamed that he be excommunicated by the whole Church also in his bookes of Bapti●me against the Donatists often 11 The Elders haue interest in other censures of the Church and the Church it selfe in excommunication 12 S. Paule accuseth the Corinthians for that the whole Church had not excommunicated the incestuous person 13 The Elders had the gouernement in excommunication 14 It is very dangerous to permit so weightie a matter to one man and therefore that tyrannie may be auoyded and this censure executed with greater fruite and grauitie the order that the Apostle there vseth is still to bee obserued 15 Hee sheweth that it pertayneth not to one man that it is a wicked fact that one should take the authoritie to himselfe that is common to others that it openeth a way to tyrannie taketh from the Church their right and abrogateth the Ecclesiasticall senate ordayned by Iesus Christ. 16 The byshops when they excommunicated of themselues alone did it ambitiously contrary to the decrees of godly cannons See Bucer against Groppet and vpon Ephes. 4. De animi Cura also Zuinglius in Ecclesiast 17 It is plentifully forbidden euen by that filthie puddle the cannon law and therefore it must needs be a haynous sinne when it findeth fault with it Therefore if excommunication be to be executed by the commaundement of Christe of the Churche if S. Paule enioyned it vnto the Church if it haue need of greatest aduice and authoritie if it belong to them that may execute the other partes of Discipline if it was so executed among the Iewes if to absolue be as well in the Elders power as the Byshops if Cyprian durst not do it alone if it was the action in Tertulians time of the most approoued Elders if to be by the whole Churche helpeth much to make the partie more ashamed if the whole Churche haue interest in it if the whole Church at Corinth was reprooued for not doing it if it be too weighty a matter for one man if the executing of it by one ouerturneth the order appoynted by Christ bringeth in tyrannie maintayneth ambition and lastly be forbidden by the cannon law it selfe Then must it needes followe that it belongeth not vnto one man to excommunicate but vnto the Eldershipp and that with the consent of the whole Church Their obiections herevnto in defence of their owne practize be these 1 Obiection The right of excommunication was in S. Paule and not in the rest Ansvvere He gaue onely direction in that as in all other matters whiche hee wrote of vnto them but if they had not throwne out the incestuous person he had remayned still vnexcommunicated for all that which S. Paule had sayd vnto them 2 Obiection Christ gaue Peter and euery Apostle power to binde and lose in earth and in heauen which interpreters expound by Matth. 18. 15. Ansvvere That power was of denouncinge Gods iudgements or pronouncing his mercie in preaching and not of this action they are expounded one by another because of the ratifying of them both in heauen alike 3 Obiection Paule did excommunicate Hymeneus and Philetus Ansvvere That is beeing moderator of the action he pronounced it not that he did it alone The same answere is to be made vnto the fathers as Ambrose c. who are said to excommunicate Therefore vpon these grounds of Scriptures Fathers Councels Emperours Lawes Histories newe writers and cleare light of reason I conclude that Christ hath prescribed vnto vs an exacte and perfect platforme of gouerning his church at all times and in all places which is this that there ought to be no ministers of the the word but pastors and teachers whiche are to be called by the people and ordained by the Eldership are of equall authoritie in their seuerall congregations muste with all faythfull diligence imploye themselues in the ministery of the worde and sacramentes that there are to be in euery congregation certaine elders whose office is to ouersee the behauiour of the people and assist their pastour in the gouernment of the church also Deacons who are to be imployed onely in receiuing and bestowing the liberallity and goods of the church to the reliefe of the poore and other necessary vses Lastly that there must be in euery congregation an eldershipp of pastour teacher if they can haue any and elders who are in common to see that the church be well gouerned not onely in maintayning the profession and practize of the worde in generall but also in admonishing reprehending or seperating frō the Lords supper them that walke offensiuely and lastly in excommunicating them that by no other meanes can be reclaimed So that all and euery gouernement contrary or besides this whether in part or in whol swarueth from that order which Christ hath set downe in his word and therefore is vnlawfull FINIS ERRATA Page 1. line 21. for 14. read 84. p. 4. l. 16. for Sa●edori● read Sanedrim p. 9. l. 11. for 43. read 43 8. l. 20 for ministerie read ministers p. 15. l. 3. blot out also p. 17. in the margent for Nepolitan read Nepotian pag. 22. l. 16. for Damascus read Damasus and so pag. 27. l. 24. pa. 23. l. 18. for the these p. 25. l. 2 for 6. read 26.