as_o to_o his_o own_o person_n but_o not_o in_o matter_n of_o faith_n as_o to_o the_o church_n i_o believe_v that_o the_o church_n be_v the_o spouse_n of_o christ_n and_o that_o she_o be_v without_o spot_n or_o wrinkle_n or_o any_o such_o thing_n as_o to_o that_o part_n which_o be_v in_o heaven_n and_o that_o the_o other_o part_n of_o the_o church_n as_o invisible_a which_o be_v not_o yet_o in_o heaven_n shall_v be_v without_o spot_n or_o wrinkle_n or_o any_o such_o thing_n when_o it_o come_v up_o to_o heaven_n but_o i_o do_v not_o believe_v that_o that_o text_n be_v mean_v of_o the_o church_n visible_a for_o all_o here_o glorious_a or_o none_o not_o all_o glorious_a here_o therefore_o none_o for_o you_o find_v it_o in_o the_o text_n that_o it_o be_v to_o be_v present_v as_o a_o glorious_a church_n namely_o as_o in_o the_o whole_a but_o you_o will_v not_o say_v that_o every_o member_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n be_v here_o glorious_a without_o spot_n without_o wrinkle_n or_o any_o such_o thing_n if_o you_o do_v say_v so_o you_o contradict_v bellarmin_n in_o his_o three_o book_n of_o the_o militant_a church_n the_o second_o chapter_n who_o there_o include_v in_o his_o definition_n of_o the_o church_n visible_a even_o reprobate_n wicked_a and_o ungodly_a man_n and_o require_v there_o no_o internal_a virtue_n for_o the_o constitution_n of_o a_o member_n of_o the_o church_n but_o only_o a_o external_a profession_n of_o faith_n and_o communion_n of_o sacrament_n and_o beside_o you_o know_v glory_n which_o be_v a_o perfection_n of_o grace_n do_v not_o belong_v to_o the_o way_n but_o the_o country_n in_o heaven_n and_o beside_o if_o you_o will_v not_o believe_v i_o in_o such_o a_o exposition_n believe_v your_o estius_n who_o with_o he_o with_o in_o his_o retractation_n p._n 9_o ed._n frob._n but_o this_o quotation_n not_o add_v in_o my_o copy_n to_o he_o saint_n austin_n understand_v it_o upon_o good_a reason_n of_o the_o church_n invisible_a as_o you_o may_v see_v in_o estius_n comment_n upon_o the_o place_n and_o here_o by_o the_o way_n we_o have_v another_o testimony_n of_o your_o own_o against_o you_o if_o you_o account_v your_o argument_n from_o this_o text_n sufficient_a to_o your_o cause_n and_o we_o have_v st._n augustine_n authority_n to_o boot_v as_o estius_n quote_v he_o and_o moreover_o holiness_n be_v no_o formal_a principle_n of_o our_o direction_n especial_o in_o point_n of_o faith_n it_o be_v holy_a because_o it_o follow_v and_o as_o it_o follow_v the_o rule_n and_o so_o shall_v we_o in_o faith_n and_o manner_n and_o therefore_o if_o it_o be_v to_o be_v understand_v of_o the_o visible_a church_n as_o it_o be_v not_o yet_o you_o conclude_v nothing_o for_o your_o turn_n upon_o this_o consideration_n to_o hasten_v the_o next_o text_n be_v former_o urge_v the_o church_n the_o pillar_n and_o ground_n of_o truth_n yet_o squeeze_v it_o and_o press_v it_o and_o make_v the_o best_a use_n of_o it_o you_o can_v it_o will_v not_o afford_v your_o inference_n you_o will_v make_v from_o it_o for_o first_o some_z and_o also_o very_o reasonable_o will_v refer_v this_o expression_n not_o to_o the_o church_n but_o to_o the_o mystery_n of_o godliness_n which_o follow_v and_o so_o they_o make_v it_o as_o a_o hebrew_n form_n of_o set_v out_o some_o high_a point_n and_o grand_a doctrine_n and_o than_o it_o go_v thus_o a_o pillar_n and_o ground_n of_o truth_n and_o without_o controversy_n a_o great_a mystery_n of_o godliness_n be_v this_o namely_o god_n manifest_v in_o the_o flesh_n etc._n etc._n if_o so_o your_o interest_n in_o it_o be_v sink_v and_o indeed_o the_o copulative_a and_o and_o without_o controversy_n do_v not_o seem_v so_o well_o and_o so_o close_o to_o knit_v else_o but_o it_o be_v give_v not_o grant_v that_o that_o criticism_n be_v not_o sufficient_a what_o of_o all_o that_o for_o saint_n irenaeus_n as_o before_o give_v this_o eulogy_n to_o the_o scripture_n the_o scripture_n give_v it_o to_o the_o church_n now_o to_o which_o do_v this_o property_n belong_v first_o and_o absolute_o to_o the_o scripture_n or_o to_o the_o church_n not_o to_o the_o church_n for_o the_o church_n have_v it_o from_o the_o scripture_n now_o that_o which_o have_v it_o first_o have_v its_o absolute_o and_o independent_o upon_o that_o which_o follow_v therefore_o the_o scripture_n be_v the_o absolute_a pillar_n and_o ground_n of_o truth_n then_o there_o faith_n have_v sure_a foot_n there_o it_o sit_v down_o there_o it_o rest_v on_o that_o ground_n upon_o that_o pillar_n the_o church_n than_o have_v this_o title_n but_o subordinate_o and_o what_o it_o say_v can_v bind_v but_o conditionate_o to_o that_o which_o be_v the_o absolute_a ground_n and_o pillar_n of_o truth_n for_o the_o truth_n be_v the_o pillar_n and_o ground_n of_o the_o church_n as_o saint_n chysostome_n say_v upon_o the_o place_n take_v it_o then_o of_o the_o catholic_n church_n not_o roman_n the_o text_n do_v more_o set_v out_o the_o office_n of_o the_o church_n than_o the_o authority_n it_o do_v hold_v it_o do_v propose_v it_o do_v uphold_v the_o truth_n but_o this_o do_v not_o convince_v or_o evince_v that_o whatsoever_o the_o church_n do_v hold_v we_o shall_v also_o hold_v and_o upon_o that_o account_n also_o as_o if_o god_n have_v appoint_v the_o church_n infallible_o to_o convey_v to_o we_o whatsoever_o truth_n and_o nothing_o but_o truth_n and_o therefore_o may_v we_o an_o ought_v we_o to_o search_v the_o scripture_n as_o our_o saviour_n speak_v john_n 5.39_o and_o by_o they_o examine_v whatsoever_o the_o church_n say_v as_o those_o of_o beraea_n do_v that_o which_o be_v say_v by_o saint_n paul_n and_o they_o commend_v for_o it_o and_o therefore_o we_o can_v believe_v the_o definition_n of_o the_o church_n upon_o its_o own_o word_n nay_o can_v we_o also_o say_v that_o god_n do_v now_o give_v unto_o the_o church_n such_o assistance_n as_o then_o which_o be_v note_v before_o and_o therefore_o we_o distinguish_v time_n not_o 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whereas_o he_o say_v that_o the_o truth_n sustain_v the_o church_n and_o the_o church_n sustain_v the_o truth_n and_o so_o one_o be_v the_o cause_n of_o the_o other_o we_o answer_v this_o be_v not_o available_a for_o you_o for_o in_o the_o same_o kind_n of_o cause_n it_o can_v be_v for_o than_o we_o be_v in_o a_o circle_n but_o the_o truth_n sustain_v the_o church_n so_o as_o to_o continue_v it_o in_o its_o principle_n the_o church_n sustain_v the_o truth_n but_o by_o way_n of_o ministry_n which_o do_v not_o make_v it_o to_o be_v a_o principle_n of_o faith_n no_o not_o to_o we_o neither_o do_v the_o other_o text_n speak_v for_o you_o as_o you_o will_v have_v they_o if_o the_o gate_n of_o hell_n shall_v not_o prevail_v against_o the_o church_n it_o do_v not_o follow_v that_o than_o catholic_a faith_n must_v be_v build_v upon_o the_o proposal_n of_o the_o church_n nothing_o shall_v prevail_v to_o the_o condemnation_n of_o those_o who_o belong_v to_o the_o church_n of_o god_n as_o 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clear_a than_o this_o if_o i_o say_v such_o a_o thing_n be_v do_v by_o cicero_n the_o father_n of_o his_o country_n and_o caesar_n do_v such_o another_o thing_n what_o i_o say_v more_o clear_a then_o that_o in_o this_o speech_n i_o call_v cicero_n the_o father_n of_o his_o country_n and_o not_o caesar_n of_o who_o as_o yet_o i_o have_v not_o so_o much_o as_o speak_v so_o the_o apostle_n have_v not_o so_o much_o as_o speak_v of_o any_o mystery_n when_o he_o speak_v these_o word_n which_o lie_v thus_o in_o your_o own_o bible_n that_o thou_o may_v know_v how_o to_o behave_v thyself_o in_o the_o house_n of_o god_n which_o be_v the_o church_n of_o the_o live_a god_n the_o pillar_n and_o ground_n of_o the_o truth_n and_o without_o controversy_n great_a be_v the_o mystery_n of_o godliness_n etc._n etc._n do_v you_o not_o see_v that_o he_o have_v not_o so_o much_o as_o speak_v of_o this_o mystery_n when_o he_o say_v the_o former_a word_n which_o in_o all_o kind_n of_o construction_n per_fw-la appositionem_fw-la clear_o relate_v to_o the_o church_n o_o but_o my_o adversary_n tell_v i_o that_o this_o title_n of_o be_v the_o pillar_n and_o foundation_n of_o truth_n agree_v in_o the_o first_o place_n to_o the_o scripture_n i_o answer_v it_o agree_v equal_o to_o any_o thing_n that_o be_v the_o true_a word_n of_o god_n and_o therefore_o it_o agree_v to_o the_o scripture_n because_o god_n speak_v by_o it_o &_o in_o it_o but_o god_n also_o speak_v by_o his_o church_n and_o in_o his_o church_n give_v as_o much_o infallible_a assistance_n to_o the_o church_n in_o a_o council_n as_o he_o give_v to_o he_o who_o do_v deliver_v his_o word_n in_o scripture_n for_o example_n as_o he_o give_v to_o solomon_n who_o in_o his_o own_o person_n come_v to_o play_v the_o idolater_n it_o be_v object_v also_o that_o in_o these_o word_n rather_o the_o office_n of_o the_o church_n be_v set_v forth_o then_o her_o authority_n to_o which_o my_o answer_n be_v clear_a that_o her_o authority_n can_v possible_o in_o short_a word_n be_v more_o set_v out_o then_o by_o say_v that_o she_o be_v the_o pillar_n and_o ground_n of_o truth_n for_o what_o authority_n can_v rely_v more_o safe_o then_o that_o which_o rely_v on_o the_o pillar_n of_o truth_n what_o authority_n can_v be_v better_o found_v and_o ground_v then_o that_o which_o be_v found_v and_o ground_v upon_o the_o ground_n and_o foundation_n of_o truth_n so_o that_o nothing_o can_v be_v more_o clear_a against_o scripture_n then_o to_o say_v it_o do_v not_o set_v out_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n in_o this_o place_n no_o text_n be_v clear_a for_o any_o thing_n hence_o when_o the_o church_n have_v define_v that_o god_n the_o son_n be_v consubstantial_a to_o his_o father_n that_o be_v of_o one_o and_o the_o same_o substance_n which_o be_v not_o where_o clear_o say_v in_o scripture_n st._n athanasius_n call_v this_o definition_n of_o the_o church_n the_o word_n of_o god_n say_v that_o ever_o hereafter_o this_o definition_n of_o the_o nicen_n council_n that_o word_n of_o god_n by_o the_o nicen_n council_n do_v remain_v for_o ever_o and_o ever_o ep._n ad_fw-la african_n episc_n behold_v here_o the_o definition_n of_o the_o council_n call_v the_o word_n of_o god_n remain_v for_o ever_o and_o ever_o be_v not_o this_o to_o acknowledge_v the_o church_n infallible_a in_o her_o definition_n that_o place_n also_o out_o of_o st._n matthew_n prove_v strong_o the_o church_n infallibility_n christ_n there_o bid_v his_o apostle_n to_o teach_v and_o baptise_v all_o nation_n add_v and_o behold_v i_o be_o with_o you_o all_o day_n even_o to_o the_o consummation_n of_o the_o world_n my_o adversary_n say_v it_o be_v not_o necessary_a to_o extend_v this_o promise_n to_o christ_n his_o be_v with_o the_o church_n to_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n which_o be_v all_o one_o as_o to_o say_v it_o be_v not_o necessary_a that_o christ_n his_o promise_n shall_v be_v true_a for_o sure_o he_o can_v promise_v more_o clear_o to_o be_v with_o his_o church_n to_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n if_o he_o shall_v say_v i_o will_v be_v with_o you_o for_o a_o thousand_o year_n he_o shall_v not_o perform_v his_o promise_n unless_o he_o be_v with_o it_o a_o thousand_o year_n wherefore_o promise_v to_o be_v with_o it_o even_o to_o the_o consummation_n of_o the_o world_n to_o make_v his_o promise_n true_a he_o must_v be_v with_o they_o so_o long_o now_o the_o apostle_n be_v not_o so_o long_o as_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n baptise_v and_o preach_v but_o their_o successor_n be_v with_o they_o therefore_o christ_n must_v be_v to_o the_o consummation_n of_o the_o world_n and_o though_o these_o successor_n of_o the_o apostle_n be_v not_o so_o worthy_a of_o infallible_a assistance_n as_o the_o apostle_n be_v yet_o christ_n give_v the_o gift_n of_o infallible_a assistance_n not_o for_o the_o worth_n of_o the_o person_n to_o who_o it_o be_v give_v but_o for_o the_o secure_a direction_n of_o so_o many_o million_o as_o be_v to_o be_v of_o the_o church_n after_o christ_n his_o time_n there_o be_v as_o much_o yea_o far_o more_o reason_n why_o he_o shall_v leave_v the_o like_a secure_a direction_n for_o they_o because_o the_o further_o we_o go_v from_o christ_n time_n the_o more_o we_o be_v subject_a to_o uncertainty_n about_o his_o doctrine_n see_v numb_a 21._o it_o be_v then_o prove_v that_o christ_n will_v be_v with_o his_o church_n until_o the_o consummation_n of_o the_o world_n and_o it_o be_v manifest_a that_o he_o be_v not_o with_o those_o who_o live_v in_o damnable_a error_n we_o must_v of_o necessity_n say_v that_o christ_n church_n in_o all_o age_n live_v secure_v from_o damnable_a error_n or_o else_o there_o be_v some_o age_n in_o which_o he_o be_v not_o with_o it_o and_o in_o which_o he_o perform_v not_o his_o promise_n and_o the_o same_o be_v to_o be_v say_v of_o that_o place_n of_o st._n john_n 14._o and_o i_o will_v ask_v the_o father_n and_o he_o will_v give_v you_o another_o paraclete_n that_o may_v abide_v with_o you_o for_o ever_o the_o spirit_n of_o truth_n this_o abide_n of_o the_o spirit_n of_o truth_n for_o ever_o secure_v we_o for_o ever_o from_o all_o damnable_a error_n admirable_o st._n austin_n l_o de_fw-mi utilit_fw-la cred_a c._n 6_o if_o the_o providence_n of_o god_n do_v not_o preside_v in_o humane_a affair_n in_o vain_a will_v solicitude_n be_v about_o religion_n but_o if_o god_n be_v thus_o present_a with_o we_o true_o we_o be_v not_o to_o despair_v that_o there_o be_v some_o authority_n appoint_v by_o the_o same_o god_n on_o which_o authority_n we_o rely_v as_o on_o a_o assure_a step_n may_v be_v lift_v up_o to_o god_n so_o he_o but_o if_o this_o step_n be_v fallible_a it_o be_v no_o assure_a step_n god_n providence_n therefore_o have_v leave_v a_o infallible_a authority_n in_o his_o church_n such_o a_o authority_n as_o the_o first_o church_n have_v for_o 2000_o year_n before_o any_o scripture_n be_v write_v and_o do_v not_o tell_v i_o that_o all_o this_o be_v then_o only_o true_a if_o the_o church_n judge_v conformable_o to_o scripture_n for_o even_o in_o that_o sense_n the_o devil_n himself_o the_o father_n of_o lie_n be_v infallible_a as_o long_o as_o he_o teach_v conformable_o to_o scripture_n and_o the_o gate_n of_o hell_n can_v by_o any_o error_n prevail_v against_o the_o devil_n of_o hell_n yea_o as_o long_o as_o he_o teach_v conformable_o to_o scripture_n he_o be_v the_o pillar_n and_o ground_n of_o truth_n have_v god_n in_o the_o text_n allege_v give_v no_o more_o to_o the_o church_n then_o to_o the_o devil_n and_o how_o be_v this_o answer_n to_o the_o purpose_n see_v that_o for_o two_o thousand_o year_n before_o scripture_n no_o man_n can_v know_v what_o be_v conformable_a to_o scripture_n yea_o nothing_o be_v then_o conformable_a to_o any_o scripture_n there_o be_v no_o scripture_n at_o all_o and_o the_o church_n then_o have_v not_o god_n promise_n which_o in_o all_o the_o text_n authority_n and_o reason_n above_o allege_a be_v that_o the_o church_n shall_v at_o no_o time_n teach_v any_o thing_n that_o in_o any_o damnable_a matter_n shall_v be_v against_o scripture_n so_o that_o when_o we_o know_v this_o be_v her_o doctrine_n we_o be_v sure_a that_o this_o be_v conformable_a to_o the_o scripture_n right_o understand_v and_o thus_o clear_o be_v fulfil_v those_o notable_a word_n in_o the_o prophet_n daniel_n cap._n 2._o v._n 44._o in_o the_o day_n of_o those_o kingdom_n the_o god_n of_o heaven_n will_v raise_v up_o a_o kingdom_n which_o shall_v not_o be_v dissipate_v and_o his_o kingdom_n shall_v not_o be_v deliver_v to_o another_o people_n and_o it_o shall_v break_v in_o piece_n and_o consume_v all_o these_o idolatrous_a kingdom_n and_o it_o shall_v stand_v for_o
which_o collective_o take_v make_v your_o other_o ground_n of_o christian_a belief_n to_o stand_v upon_o therefore_o saint_n paul_n word_n be_v speak_v of_o the_o church_n as_o of_o such_o a_o pillar_n of_o truth_n and_o such_o a_o ground_n of_o truth_n as_o may_v then_o be_v secure_o rely_v upon_o in_o all_o matter_n of_o faith_n and_o confess_o as_o then_o the_o true_a believer_n have_v not_o the_o scripture_n sufficient_o complete_v to_o be_v their_o adequate_a rule_n of_o faith_n now_o after_o the_o writing_n of_o these_o scripture_n recommend_v the_o church_n as_o the_o pillar_n and_o ground_n of_o truth_n this_o ground_n be_v so_o far_o from_o grow_v weak_a that_o the_o confirmation_n of_o scripture_n add_v new_a force_n to_o it_o i_o have_v now_o show_v you_o the_o text_n in_o which_o without_o any_o subordination_n to_o scripture_n as_o than_o not_o write_v the_o church_n be_v by_o saint_n paul_n call_v the_o pillar_n and_o ground_n of_o truth_n now_o show_v i_o your_o text_n 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yield_v i_o what_o st._n paul_n say_v that_o i_o may_v ground_v my_o faith_n upon_o the_o church_n this_o i_o can_v do_v unless_o god_n speak_v by_o his_o church_n if_o god_n speak_v by_o his_o church_n i_o pray_v believe_v what_o he_o speak_v he_o tell_v i_o by_o his_o church_n that_o i_o be_o to_o admit_v of_o the_o scripture_n as_o his_o undoubted_a word_n upon_o this_o his_o tell_v i_o so_o i_o ground_n that_o faith_n by_o which_o i_o believe_v the_o scripture_n so_o that_o i_o believe_v the_o scripture_n for_o the_o church_n which_o faith_n of_o i_o be_v as_o sure_o ground_v as_o be_v the_o faith_n of_o the_o true_a believer_n who_o at_o that_o very_a time_n in_o which_o st._n paul_n do_v write_v these_o word_n do_v ground_n their_o faith_n in_o all_o point_n upon_o the_o church_n as_o you_o can_v deny_v and_o thus_o in_o respect_v of_o we_o the_o church_n be_v first_o believe_v independent_o of_o scripture_n to_o which_o we_o be_v most_o prudent_o move_v by_o such_o motive_n as_o i_o have_v specify_v and_o the_o scripture_n in_o order_n to_o we_o come_v to_o be_v acknowledge_v as_o god_n word_n upon_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n there_o be_v no_o other_o assure_a stay_n speak_v of_o the_o whole_a and_o undoubted_a canon_n to_o know_v the_o true_a scripture_n from_o false_a the_o scripture_n be_v not_o the_o first_o principle_n but_o upon_o supposition_n that_o every_o one_o among_o christian_n admit_v of_o it_o for_o god_n word_n and_o so_o we_o argue_v out_o of_o it_o against_o one_o another_o but_o speak_v of_o he_o who_o be_v to_o begin_v to_o be_v a_o christian_n as_o where_o all_o once_o begin_v he_o can_v admit_v of_o scripture_n as_o man_n admit_v of_o the_o first_o principle_n of_o science_n which_o of_o themselves_o appear_v so_o clear_o true_a that_o all_o you_o can_v bring_v to_o prove_v their_o truth_n will_v appear_v less_o true_a than_o those_o principle_n appear_v by_o themselves_o the_o scripture_n be_v not_o the_o first_o principle_n 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and_o may_v already_o see_v it_o that_o your_o judge_n will_v be_v make_v to_o speak_v what_o each_o party_n please_v and_o thus_o will_v be_v unable_a to_o decide_v any_o thing_n but_o to_o proceed_v the_o church_n true_o be_v before_o the_o canon_n be_v write_v the_o pillar_n and_o ground_n of_o truth_n in_o itself_o without_o any_o subordination_n so_o that_o the_o believer_n look_v no_o further_a than_o that_o god_n teach_v they_o such_o and_o such_o thing_n by_o the_o church_n i_o have_v from_o the_o text_n all_o i_o desire_v to_o prove_v that_o god_n assistance_n promise_v to_o the_o church_n shall_v reach_v as_o far_o as_o infallibility_n whether_o this_o infallibility_n be_v equal_a to_o that_o of_o the_o apostle_n or_o no_o make_v not_o to_o the_o purpose_n so_o long_o as_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o our_o faith_n rely_v upon_o her_o authority_n do_v rely_v as_o secure_o as_o that_o which_o rely_v upon_o the_o pillar_n and_o ground_n of_o truth_n here_o you_o come_v in_o with_o 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church_n as_o visible_a who_o proposal_n we_o must_v receive_v and_o submit_v our_o understanding_n unto_o for_o the_o invisible_a church_n or_o church_n as_o invisible_a can_v order_v we_o in_o our_o belief_n because_o as_o such_o it_o be_v not_o know_v to_o we_o i_o come_v now_o to_o your_o testimony_n and_o your_o first_o witness_n be_v saint_n irenaeus_n answ_n we_o yield_v all_o to_o saint_n irenaus_n nothing_o to_o you_o we_o say_v we_o ought_v not_o to_o seek_v among_o other_o the_o truth_n which_o we_o may_v easy_o take_v and_o receive_v from_o the_o church_n etc._n etc._n yes_o because_o the_o church_n be_v serviceable_a to_o the_o truth_n by_o way_n of_o ministry_n to_o deliver_v the_o word_n of_o truth_n to_o keep_v the_o word_n of_o truth_n to_o uphold_v the_o word_n of_o truth_n and_o so_o we_o acknowledge_v the_o church_n to_o be_v a_o sufficient_a treasury_n of_o truth_n because_o we_o have_v therein_o the_o scripture_n but_o the_o treasury_n do_v not_o make_v the_o 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where_o the_o church_n hold_v that_o which_o it_o thus_o know_v we_o hold_v with_o it_o and_o be_v behold_v to_o the_o church_n for_o hold_v it_o forth_o to_o we_o the_o church_n may_v inform_v we_o of_o it_o but_o it_o do_v not_o certify_v it_o to_o we_o therefore_o do_v not_o infallible_o convey_v it_o the_o truth_n to_o we_o therefore_o be_v not_o the_o ground_n of_o faith_n the_o office_n of_o the_o church_n be_v as_o a_o candlestick_n to_o hold_v the_o light_n of_o the_o word_n of_o truth_n and_o moreover_o though_o be_v do_v always_o hold_v that_o which_o it_o know_v may_v it_o not_o also_o hold_v somewhat_o which_o she_o do_v not_o know_v though_o it_o do_v hold_v that_o which_o be_v true_a may_v it_o not_o hold_v that_o which_o be_v false_a in_o other_o thing_n as_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n hold_v many_o thing_n which_o be_v true_a wherein_o we_o differ_v not_o and_o also_o many_o thing_n false_a wherein_o she_o exceed_v the_o catholic_n faith_n as_o in_o regard_n of_o object_n now_o put_v case_n therefore_o that_o that_o ancient_a church_n near_o the_o apostle_n time_n do_v not_o hold_v any_o point_n false_a but_o do_v hold_v every_o point_n true_a yet_o even_o from_o hence_o nothing_o will_v be_v infer_v sufficient_o to_o your_o purpose_n unless_o you_o can_v prove_v that_o it_o be_v appoint_v by_o god_n to_o be_v the_o ground_n of_o faith_n by_o a_o impossibility_n of_o error_n in_o any_o particular_a such_o be_v to_o be_v the_o ground_n of_o our_o faith_n which_o be_v want_v in_o the_o church_n not_o privative_o as_o if_o it_o have_v be_v ever_o promise_v but_o negative_o because_o not_o promise_v to_o the_o church_n after_o the_o apostle_n time_n if_o it_o be_v possible_a that_o the_o church_n may_v not_o err_v yet_o this_o will_v not_o make_v we_o rest_v our_o faith_n in_o it_o faith_n have_v no_o sure_a foot_n in_o such_o contingency_n of_o truth_n unless_o you_o prove_v a_o non-possibility_n of_o err_a you_o do_v nothing_o but_o we_o come_v 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person_n with_o certain_a prayer_n and_o yet_o saint_n james_n say_v cap._n 5._o ver_fw-la 14._o be_v any_o sick_a among_o you_o let_v he_o call_v for_o the_o priest_n of_o the_o church_n and_o let_v they_o pray_v over_o he_o anoint_v he_o with_o oil_n and_o if_o he_o have_v commit_v sin_n they_o shall_v be_v forgive_v he_o be_v not_o this_o controversy_n clear_o by_o this_o place_n of_o scripture_n decide_v against_o you_o or_o have_v you_o any_o one_o place_n half_o so_o clear_a to_o the_o contrary_a again_o about_o those_o other_o most_o clear_a word_n speak_v in_o the_o institution_n of_o another_o great_a sacrament_n in_o which_o any_o wise_a man_n will_v speak_v clear_o this_o be_v my_o body_n the_o late_a adversary_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n have_v find_v out_o above_o two_o hundred_o several_a interpretation_n they_o will_v needs_o have_v the_o sense_n to_o be_v figurative_a although_o never_o any_o man_n in_o any_o figurative_a speech_n be_v hear_v to_o speak_v thus_o for_o 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by_o the_o authority_n of_o saint_n paul_n which_o be_v a_o strong_a authority_n then_o that_o of_o saint_n irenaeus_n the_o church_n be_v the_o pillar_n and_o foundation_n of_o truth_n therefore_o her_o authority_n be_v a_o sufficient_a ground_n of_o faith_n even_o according_a to_o this_o your_o strong_a argument_n this_o i_o show_v numb_a 22._o yea_o saint_n irenaeus_n express_o teach_v that_o though_o there_o be_v no_o scripture_n at_o all_o yet_o we_o shall_v all_o be_v bind_v to_o believe_v what_o we_o now_o believe_v as_o i_o have_v show_v numb_a the._n 19_o and_o yet_o then_o we_o shall_v have_v no_o other_o authority_n then_o that_o of_o the_o church_n again_o the_o scripture_n can_v then_o only_a ground_n faith_n when_o they_o contain_v the_o matter_n about_o which_o we_o be_v bind_v to_o have_v faith_n but_o very_o often_o they_o do_v not_o contain_v this_o matter_n as_o i_o have_v show_v numb_a 9.10.11_o 12._o and_o chief_o numb_a 15._o and_o 16._o these_o point_v not_o be_v 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agree_v in_o that_o which_o you_o now_o superadd_a that_o the_o church_n be_v the_o foundation_n of_o truth_n the_o scripture_n be_v the_o ground_n the_o church_n the_o foundation_n be_v it_o so_o then_o have_v you_o change_v the_o question_n and_o why_o have_v we_o not_o the_o right_a state_n of_o it_o at_o first_o and_o be_v it_o not_o enough_o that_o the_o church_n shall_v be_v the_o ground_n of_o scripture_n but_o must_v it_o be_v the_o foundation_n in_o a_o more_o excellent_a sense_n i_o must_v not_o let_v this_o pass_n for_o your_o sake_n first_o what_o give_v you_o occasion_n from_o the_o text_n to_o assert_v the_o church_n to_o be_v the_o foundation_n signanter_n i_o do_v not_o see_v for_o the_o word_n in_o the_o greek_a 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d do_v not_o signify_v a_o foundation_n but_o that_o which_o do_v uphold_v
that_o the_o invisible_a church_n shall_v not_o perish_v which_o be_v true_a although_o the_o visible_a church_n be_v under_o a_o possibility_n to_o err_v since_o every_o error_n be_v not_o destructive_a of_o salvation_n in_o the_o 25._o number_n you_o tell_v i_o what_o you_o have_v say_v before_o but_o that_o you_o have_v give_v i_o some_o additional_a testimony_n in_o the_o supplement_n of_o the_o last_o which_o have_v their_o answer_n without_o repetition_n only_o you_o no_o where_o i_o think_v find_v that_o saint_n jerome_n do_v receive_v all_o those_o book_n which_o you_o receive_v for_o canonical_a and_o for_o those_o author_n which_o hold_v the_o consubstantiality_n of_o the_o son_n and_o those_o several_a property_n of_o the_o holy_a trinity_n you_o will_v give_v i_o leave_v with_o judicious_a man_n to_o suspect_v eusebius_n believe_v your_o cardinal_n herein_o bellarmin_n in_o his_o de_fw-fr scriptoribus_fw-la ecclesiasticis_fw-la p._n 94.5_o 6._o where_o he_o bring_v the_o attestation_n of_o saint_n athanasius_n and_o saint_n jerome_n to_o the_o same_o purpose_n and_o saint_n jerome_n call_v he_o not_o only_o a_o arrian_n but_o the_o prince_n of_o the_o arrian_n sometime_o sometime_o the_o ensign-bearer_n yea_o the_o 7._o synod_n he_o say_v and_o the_o apostolical_a legate_n reject_v his_o authority_n as_o be_v a_o arrian_n heretic_n as_o he_o say_v and_o as_o for_o augustine_n expression_n that_o the_o rely_v on_o the_o church_n authority_n be_v the_o most_o true_a and_o inviolable_a rule_n of_o faith_n you_o refer_v it_o to_o your_o 16._o number_n and_o there_o refer_v i_o to_o the_o 13._o chapter_n of_o the_o first_o book_n contra_fw-la cresconium_fw-la which_o i_o can_v see_v there_o if_o it_o shall_v be_v so_o disert_o yet_o this_o must_v be_v understand_v respective_o to_o those_o case_n wherein_o the_o scripture_n do_v not_o clear_o pass_v the_o verdict_n in_o which_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n be_v the_o best_a rule_n we_o can_v then_o have_v as_o towards_o practice_n but_o this_o in_o his_o opinion_n do_v not_o absolute_o leave_v we_o to_o follow_v tradition_n of_o the_o church_n in_o point_n of_o faith_n unless_o he_o contradict_v himself_o as_o you_o shall_v see_v at_o the_o end_n but_o you_o be_v afraid_a of_o want_n of_o number_n to_o make_v noise_n because_o you_o say_v i_o say_v you_o have_v no_o other_o testimony_n but_o saint_n augustine_n i_o do_v not_o say_v that_o you_o have_v none_o but_o he_o absolute_o but_o you_o have_v none_o but_o his_o that_o i_o can_v see_v of_o those_o you_o produce_v neither_o him_z indeed_o if_o you_o please_v to_o tell_v we_o what_o you_o see_v therefore_o we_o shall_v look_v over_o your_o reinforcing_a his_n and_o the_o main_a testimony_n for_o your_o cause_n in_o my_o answer_n whereunto_o i_o see_v yet_o no_o place_n for_o amendment_n or_o abatement_n i_o say_v if_o you_o consider_v the_o whole_a tenâ—â—r_n of_o the_o chapter_n you_o may_v be_v incline_v to_o think_v that_o it_o come_v from_o he_o in_o some_o heat_n of_o dispute_n and_o methinks_v i_o may_v think_v so_o still_o your_o man_n be_v wont_a to_o answer_v evidence_n of_o the_o father_n which_o be_v against_o they_o when_o they_o please_v that_o such_o passage_n come_v from_o they_o not_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d but_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d and_o sure_o we_o may_v have_v that_o liberty_n when_o there_o be_v such_o occasion_n give_v for_o we_o to_o interpret_v they_o as_o here_o if_o we_o consider_v how_o he_o be_v displease_v with_o himself_o for_o a_o former_a respect_n to_o that_o epistle_n and_o also_o if_o we_o take_v notice_n of_o his_o short_a return_n of_o discourse_n in_o this_o epistle_n and_o also_o if_o we_o mark_v his_o check_n and_o correct_v and_o take_v up_o himself_o towards_o the_o end_n of_o the_o chapter_n with_o a_o absit_fw-la sed_fw-la absit_fw-la ut_fw-la ego_fw-la evangelio_n non_fw-la credam_fw-la and_o if_o this_o answer_n do_v not_o weigh_v with_o you_o than_o i_o give_v you_o another_o that_o this_o may_v be_v speak_v of_o himself_o not_o in_o sensu_fw-la composito_fw-la as_o then_o but_o in_o sensu_fw-la diviso_fw-la as_o in_o order_n to_o that_o time_n when_o he_o be_v a_o manichee_n himself_o to_o which_o purpose_n i_o tell_v you_o it_o be_v familiar_a to_o he_o and_o other_o writer_n of_o that_o part_n of_o the_o world_n to_o express_v a_o tense_n more_o than_o past_a by_o the_o imperfect_a and_o the_o sense_n be_v that_o when_o he_o be_v a_o manichee_n he_o will_v not_o have_v believe_v the_o gospel_n but_o that_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n have_v move_v he_o to_o it_o one_o place_n of_o this_o usage_n i_o find_v to_o be_v in_o a_o chapter_n you_o quote_v in_o his_o de_fw-fr predestinatione_fw-la sanct._n lib._n 2._o cap._n 1._o s_o 14._o qui_fw-la igitur_fw-la opus_fw-la est_fw-la ut_fw-la eorum_fw-la ferutemur_fw-la opuscula_fw-la qui_fw-la priusquam_fw-la ista_fw-la haresis_fw-la â—riretur_fw-la non_fw-la habuerunt_fw-la necessitatem_fw-la in_o hâc_fw-la difficili_fw-la ad_fw-la solvendum_fw-la quastione_fw-la versari_fw-la quod_fw-la procul_fw-la dubio_fw-la facerem_fw-la si_fw-la respondere_fw-la talibus_fw-la cogerentur_fw-la where_o you_o have_v the_o imperfect_a tense_n for_o the_o tense_n more_o past_a facerent_fw-la for_o fecissent_fw-la and_o so_o the_o other_o so_o in_o his_o first_o book_n of_o retract_v cap._n 51._o profecto_fw-la non_fw-la dixissem_fw-la si_fw-la jam_fw-la â—uns_fw-la essem_fw-la literis_fw-la sucris_n ita_fw-la eruditus_fw-la ut_fw-la recolerem_fw-la where_o you_o have_v essem_fw-la for_o fuissem_fw-la and_o so_o the_o other_o and_o also_o by_o the_o way_n let_v i_o observe_v somewhat_o from_o those_o two_o place_n towards_o the_o main_a question_n beside_o the_o use_n of_o they_o in_o the_o way_n of_o criticism_n for_o by_o the_o former_a you_o have_v the_o reason_n why_o the_o tradition_n of_o the_o church_n in_o doctrine_n receive_v will_v not_o make_v a_o end_n of_o our_o difference_n since_o the_o question_n be_v not_o then_o start_v and_o also_o by_o the_o second_o you_o may_v observe_v that_o we_o can_v swallow_v all_o that_o be_v say_v by_o saint_n austin_n without_o chew_v since_o he_o say_v himself_o that_o have_v he_o be_v so_o well_o instruct_v he_o will_v not_o have_v say_v this_o and_o that_o and_o indeed_o his_o book_n of_o retractation_n be_v book_n against_o you_o and_o do_v conclude_v whole_o that_o we_o be_v not_o to_o take_v whatsoever_o the_o father_n write_v to_o be_v as_o true_a as_o gospel_n yea_o some_o such_o book_n of_o retractation_n all_o of_o they_o may_v have_v make_v as_o some_o think_v origen_n do_v although_o they_o be_v perish_v as_o to_o we_o but_o the_o answer_n which_o i_o give_v you_o to_o that_o passage_n of_o saint_n austin_n will_v not_o content_v you_o therefore_o you_o endeavour_v to_o show_v at_o large_a that_o they_o will_v not_o serve_v you_o say_v unless_o he_o will_v stand_v to_o that_o ground_n he_o must_v needs_o seem_v to_o say_v nothing_o against_o his_o adversary_n what_o ground_n do_v you_o mean_v what_o that_o he_o be_v move_v by_o the_o church_n infallible_a authority_n as_o you_o will_v conclude_v at_o every_o turn_n no_o suppose_v he_o not_o to_o speak_v in_o aestu_fw-la sermonis_fw-la yet_o what_o he_o say_v against_o his_o adversary_n be_v reasonable_a without_o urge_v the_o infallible_a authority_n for_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o church_n may_v be_v consider_v by_o he_o as_o a_o condition_n towards_o the_o reception_n of_o any_o doctrine_n and_o yet_o not_o to_o be_v that_o which_o he_o build_v his_o faith_n upon_o as_o upon_o a_o infallible_a ground_n you_o may_v know_v the_o causa_fw-la sine_fw-la qua_fw-la non_fw-la be_v not_o a_o cause_n although_o such_o a_o thing_n be_v not_o without_o it_o yet_o be_v not_o this_o the_o cause_n thereof_o and_o therefore_o make_v what_o you_o can_v of_o the_o place_n it_o will_v not_o afford_v you_o a_o firm_a foundation_n if_o his_o authority_n can_v do_v it_o you_o say_v that_o this_o be_v his_o first_o argument_n to_o show_v that_o his_o adversary_n by_o cite_v text_n out_o of_o the_o gospel_n to_o prove_v manichaeus_n a_o true_a apostle_n can_v prove_v nothing_o against_o those_o who_o as_o yet_o have_v not_o believe_v the_o gospel_n so_o you_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d and_o what_o then_o because_o the_o adversary_n can_v prove_v nothing_o by_o scripture_n to_o those_o that_o deny_v it_o therefore_o saint_n austin_n must_v infer_v that_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n be_v infallible_a and_o he_o must_v believe_v the_o gospel_n upon_o no_o other_o ground_n what_o consequence_n be_v this_o as_o if_o because_o saint_n augustine_n adversary_n care_v not_o for_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o church_n therefore_o we_o must_v be_v guilty_a of_o that_o which_o be_v call_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d which_o have_v so_o much_o wrong_v the_o church_n as_o nothing_o more_o this_o
contradict_v that_o three_o you_o say_v i_o confess_v that_o when_o we_o be_v by_o the_o church_n assure_v that_o the_o scripture_n be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n we_o may_v ground_v our_o faith_n in_o it_o for_o those_o thing_n which_o be_v plain_o deliver_v yes_o but_o i_o also_o say_v that_o all_o thing_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n be_v not_o plain_o deliver_v in_o scripture_n and_o saint_n peter_n say_v that_o many_o to_o their_o perdition_n do_v misunderstand_v some_o hard_a place_n of_o saint_n paul_n so_o that_o misinterpretation_n of_o hard_a place_n may_v be_v the_o cause_n of_o perdition_n four_o you_o object_n heresy_n and_o lewd_a life_n to_o some_o in_o who_o you_o say_v we_o invest_v infallibility_n if_o i_o shall_v grant_v all_o what_o prove_v you_o from_o hence_o but_o that_o there_o be_v other_o way_n to_o heresy_n and_o bad_a life_n beside_o give_v all_o scope_n to_o interpret_v the_o scripture_n as_o we_o judge_v fit_a so_o there_o be_v other_o way_n to_o hell_n beside_o drunkenness_n but_o what_o do_v this_o hinder_a drunkenness_n from_o be_v the_o high_a way_n to_o hell_n again_o have_v not_o david_n who_o be_v a_o murderer_n and_o adulterer_n have_v not_o solomon_n who_o be_v a_o idolater_n the_o infallible_a assistance_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n in_o write_v several_a part_n of_o the_o holy_a scripture_n but_o to_o prevent_v this_o and_o all_o that_o else_o where_o you_o do_v or_o can_v say_v against_o the_o pope_n i_o in_o my_o 21._o number_v desire_v you_o and_o all_o to_o take_v notice_n of_o that_o which_o here_o you_o quite_o forget_v i_o say_v i_o will_v have_v every_o one_o to_o know_v that_o the_o roman_a church_n do_v oblige_v to_o no_o more_o then_o to_o believe_v that_o the_o pope_n define_v with_o a_o lawful_a council_n can_v err_v how_o then_o do_v the_o belief_n or_o faith_n of_o our_o church_n i_o speak_v not_o of_o private_a man_n private_a opinion_n invest_v infallibility_n in_o a_o person_n heretical_a or_o lewd_a those_o doctor_n who_o be_v of_o that_o opinion_n that_o the_o pope_n can_v not_o err_v in_o define_v out_o of_o a_o general_a council_n have_v other_o answer_n to_o your_o objection_n but_o that_o which_o you_o say_v be_v nothing_o against_o our_o faith_n which_o no_o man_n though_o never_o so_o little_a a_o frenchman_n will_v say_v oblige_v we_o to_o hold_v the_o pope_n infallible_a in_o define_v out_o of_o a_o general_a council_n so_o much_o for_o this_o whereas_o i_o say_v that_o we_o can_v have_v as_o thing_n stand_v any_o other_o assurance_n to_o ground_v our_o faith_n upon_o then_o the_o church_n you_o tell_v i_o i_o suppose_v the_o question_n sir_n i_o do_v not_o suppose_v but_o only_o propose_v what_o present_o i_o mean_v to_o prove_v and_o where_o as_o you_o say_v that_o i_o do_v not_o well_o consider_v what_o i_o say_v when_o i_o say_v that_o as_o thing_n stand_v we_o have_v no_o other_o assurance_n i_o answer_v that_o though_o god_n may_v have_v ordain_v otherwise_o yet_o 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give_v we_o charity_n god_n have_v mercy_n upon_o we_o in_o the_o bitter_a day_n of_o his_o judgement_n if_o we_o pass_v so_o bitter_a a_o judgement_n against_o the_o whole_a church_n representative_a and_o yet_o if_o you_o pass_v not_o this_o bitter_a judgement_n you_o will_v never_o pass_v this_o objection_n without_o be_v pose_v 22._o good_a sir_n what_o mean_v you_o here_o to_o bid_v i_o say_v no_o more_o of_o this_o point_n concern_v the_o holy_a ghost_n give_v to_o his_o church_n a_o assistance_n reach_v to_o infallibility_n but_o you_o will_v have_v i_o now_o measure_v the_o infallibility_n of_o our_o council_n or_o church_n by_o their_o determination_n and_o to_o see_v how_o they_o agree_v with_o scripture_n let_v we_o not_o say_v you_o see_v your_o opinion_n by_o infallibility_n but_o your_o infallibility_n by_o your_o determination_n set_v forth_o by_o your_o church_n remember_v sir_n what_o you_o find_v in_o the_o 7_o number_n of_o this_o chapter_n where_o you_o undertake_v to_o instruct_v i_o in_o the_o right_a way_n of_o dispute_v according_a to_o which_o i_o shall_v not_o stand_v show_v the_o church_n determination_n to_o be_v such_o as_o shall_v be_v obey_v but_o i_o shall_v show_v à _fw-la priori_fw-la as_o they_o say_v that_o she_o be_v infallible_a and_o that_o therefore_o her_o definition_n be_v to_o be_v admit_v now_o when_o i_o come_v to_o do_v what_o you_o will_v have_v i_o to_o do_v you_o cry_v out_o say_v no_o more_o of_o this_o point_n but_o go_v now_o the_o other_o way_n cast_v the_o weight_n of_o this_o argument_n upon_o the_o other_o shoulder_n it_o gall_v i_o upon_o this_o sir_n by_o your_o good_a leave_n i_o must_v dwell_v upon_o this_o argument_n yet_o a_o great_a while_n the_o more_o it_o press_v the_o better_a it_o be_v 23._o this_o i_o will_v do_v by_o pass_v to_o my_o 22._o number_n number_n of_o my_o 22th_o number_n where_o first_o you_o stumble_v and_o then_o tread_v upon_o luther_n let_v he_o lie_v where_o you_o will_n he_o be_v no_o better_a than_o his_o father_n i_o step_v over_o he_o and_o so_o prove_v this_o infallibility_n of_o the_o church_n i_o cite_v saint_n paul_n tim._n 3.15_o call_v the_o church_n of_o the_o live_a god_n the_o pillar_n and_o ground_n of_o faith_n may_v not_o all_o secure_o in_o their_o faith_n rely_v upon_o the_o pillar_n of_o truth_n may_v they_o not_o most_o ground_o grind_v themselves_o upon_o the_o ground_n of_o truth_n itself_o you_o answer_v there_o be_v a_o double_a pillar_n and_o a_o double_a ground_n one_o principal_a the_o scripture_n the_o other_o less_o principal_a and_o subordinate_a the_o church_n but_o this_o double_a deal_n in_o distinguish_v help_v you_o not_o the_o church_n must_v still_o be_v a_o true_a pillar_n and_o a_o true_a ground_n of_o truth_n the_o people_n believe_v god_n and_o moses_n say_v the_o scripture_n moses_n be_v infinite_o under_o god_n yet_o this_o hinder_v not_o his_o be_v true_o such_o a_o pillar_n of_o truth_n as_o be_v to_o be_v rely_v 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follow_v the_o apostle_n who_o rather_o commend_v christ_n to_o the_o church_n than_o the_o church_n to_o christian_n yea_o if_o st._n paul_n 2_o cor._n 4_o 5._o say_v we_o preach_v not_o ourselves_o but_o jesus_n christ_n the_o lord_n and_o ourselves_o your_o servant_n for_o jesus_n sake_n how_o can_v they_o preach_v themselves_o or_o the_o roman_a doctor_n to_o be_v the_o master_n of_o their_o faith_n and_o the_o roman_a church_n not_o only_o to_o be_v the_o mother_n but_o mistress_n of_o the_o christian_a world_n three_o if_o any_o do_v believe_v by_o they_o they_o do_v not_o believe_v for_o they_o and_o therefore_o be_v not_o their_o authority_n the_o ground_n of_o their_o faith_n nay_o not_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n for_o that_o can_v have_v no_o great_a authority_n than_o st._n paul_n have_v and_o what_o say_v he_o of_o himself_o 1_o ep._n cor._n 3.5_o for_o what_o be_v paul_n and_o what_o be_v apollo_n but_o minister_n by_o who_o you_o believe_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d and_o fourthly_a be_v not_o read_v of_o the_o word_n a_o ordinance_n of_o god_n and_o therefore_o be_v the_o law_n read_v in_o the_o synagogue_n every_o sabbath_n day_n and_o be_v there_o any_o ordinance_n of_o god_n with_o which_o he_o do_v not_o at_o all_o concur_v though_o he_o be_v not_o bind_v to_o it_o yet_o he_o do_v it_o gracious_o yea_o fift_o be_v not_o junius_n convert_v to_o the_o christian_a faith_n by_o read_v of_o the_o first_o chapter_n of_o st._n john_n with_o the_o concurrence_n of_o god_n grace_n n._n 24_o 25_o 26_o 27_o 28_o 29._o in_o all_o these_o he_o prosecute_v the_o same_o discourse_n against_o the_o clearness_n of_o the_o scripture_n to_o be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n by_o its_o own_o light_n and_o all_o the_o argument_n therein_o do_v in_o effect_n hang_v upon_o one_o string_n which_o be_v a_o supposition_n that_o we_o shall_v hold_v this_o principle_n of_o the_o scripture_n be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n to_o be_v as_o clear_o assent_v to_o 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teach_v they_o what_o the_o universal_a church_n hold_v to_o be_v god_n law_n than_o by_o teach_v they_o what_o they_o themselves_o conceive_v to_o be_v god_n law_n as_o you_o will_v have_v they_o do_v ans_fw-fr this_o do_v not_o contradict_v if_o they_o say_v it_o be_v more_o likely_a we_o can_v say_v it_o but_o what_o be_v this_o to_o faith_n and_o upon_o this_o condition_n they_o be_v undo_v for_o which_o of_o their_o private_a priest_n be_v able_a to_o say_v positive_o that_o this_o be_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o whole_a church_n for_o all_o age_n and_o place_n since_o the_o apostle_n the_o church_n otherwise_o consider_v have_v no_o considerable_a authority_n and_o so_o we_o mean_v the_o universal_a church_n second_o although_o thus_o the_o church_n be_v not_o the_o regula_fw-la regulans_fw-la but_o the_o regula_fw-la regulata_fw-la yet_o they_o can_v bring_v the_o consent_n of_o the_o universal_a church_n for_o the_o point_n of_o difference_n ad_fw-la num_fw-la 11._o 12._o 13._o 14._o herein_o he_o give_v i_o many_o word_n towards_o assert_v tradition_n to_o be_v a_o sufficient_a bottom_n of_o faith_n but_o in_o all_o these_o how_o little_o he_o take_v away_o of_o my_o answer_n any_o one_o may_v say_v better_a than_o i._n in_o the_o begin_n of_o the_o eleven_o he_o go_v upon_o a_o false_a supposition_n that_o in_o the_o time_n before_o moses_n the_o tradition_n be_v receive_v by_o the_o church_n upon_o the_o infallibility_n of_o the_o church_n they_o be_v receive_v by_o the_o church_n not_o infallible_o by_o the_o church_n the_o church_n have_v itself_o herein_o as_o a_o mean_a of_o proposal_n not_o as_o the_o last_o motive_n of_o faith_n their_o faith_n be_v terminate_v by_o the_o spirit_n of_o god_n in_o the_o matter_n of_o tradition_n be_v not_o determine_v by_o the_o church_n authoritative_a delivery_n the_o objectum_fw-la quod_fw-la of_o their_o faith_n be_v not_o the_o church_n proposal_n then_o 2._o suppose_v what_o we_o do_v not_o grant_v yet_o 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we_o have_v reason_n to_o believe_v that_o there_o it_o will_v not_o take_v place_n so_o neither_o shall_v tradition_n when_o there_o be_v not_o that_o need_n of_o they_o my_o answer_n then_o do_v bear_v itself_o upon_o this_o that_o if_o there_o be_v that_o necessity_n of_o tradition_n now_o as_o then_o he_o may_v urge_v the_o argument_n because_o god_n have_v will_v provide_v sufficient_o for_o security_n of_o tradition_n now_o as_o then_o falsum_fw-la prius_fw-la and_o we_o may_v take_v his_o own_o similitude_n those_o that_o have_v read_v many_o credible_a book_n of_o france_n have_v they_o any_o need_n of_o oral_a tradition_n to_o believe_v that_o there_o be_v such_o a_o kingdom_n as_o france_n he_o say_v no_o yet_o these_o last_o be_v as_o certain_a he_o say_v well_o then_o no_o more_o need_n have_v we_o of_o tradition_n for_o the_o doctrine_n of_o christ_n which_o we_o sufficient_o read_v in_o scripture_n so_o then_o although_o he_o conclude_v tradition_n hopeful_a and_o superflua_fw-la non_fw-la nocent_a yet_o can_v he_o not_o conclude_v they_o as_o necessary_a which_o shall_v have_v be_v demonstrate_v but_o this_o he_o will_v do_v in_o follow_v word_n even_o now_o when_o we_o have_v scripture_n and_o tradition_n we_o have_v ever_o have_v with_o they_o a_o perpetual_a succession_n of_o horrible_a division_n open_v still_o wide_o and_o wide_o again_o odd_a reflection_n upon_o scripture_n but_o it_o be_v well_o he_o jopnes_n tradition_n with_o it_o to_o take_v part_n of_o the_o consequence_n as_o he_o think_v and_o yet_o it_o may_v be_v he_o do_v not_o think_v so_o but_o that_o the_o cause_n of_o the_o division_n be_v only_a scripture_n and_o have_v we_o have_v no_o scripture_n we_o shall_v have_v have_v few_o division_n do_v he_o think_v so_o then_o how_o be_v scripture_n necessary_a as_o they_o general_o confess_v when_o it_o
nothing_o if_o all_o the_o strength_n of_o rome_n can_v sufficient_o reinforce_v the_o former_a text_n against_o we_o for_o the_o church_n universal_a and_o then_o for_o they_o reducant_fw-la nos_fw-la if_o they_o can_v redeant_fw-la ad_fw-la nos_fw-la as_o the_o father_n say_v 23._o n._n 23._o this_o section_n be_v in_o good_a part_n make_v up_o of_o repetition_n towards_o the_o reurge_n on_o their_o be_v half_a 1._o ep._n to_o tim._n 3.15_o how_o much_o paper_n be_v take_v up_o with_o petition_n and_o repetition_n petition_n of_o the_o principle_n and_o repetition_n of_o what_o be_v say_v before_o upon_o this_o i_o distinguish_v of_o a_o double_a pillar_n the_o principal_a scripture_n a_o subordinate_a one_o the_o church_n and_o now_o he_o say_v pleasant_o this_o double_a deal_n in_o distinguish_v help_v you_o not_o the_o church_n must_v still_o be_v a_o true_a pillar_n and_o ground_n of_o truth_n ans_fw-fr distinguish_v be_v plain_a deal_n double_a deal_n make_v confusion_n therefore_o we_o distinguish_v again_o the_o church_n may_v be_v a_o true_a pillar_n and_o ground_n or_o establishment_n of_o truth_n ex_fw-la officio_fw-la and_o subordinate_o yet_o not_o infallible_a that_o which_o be_v infallible_a be_v such_o all_o that_o be_v such_o be_v not_o infallible_a dic_fw-la aliquid_fw-la contra_fw-la ut_fw-la simus_fw-la duo_fw-la he_o shall_v have_v contradict_v or_o say_v nothing_o the_o people_n believe_v god_n and_o moses_n say_v the_o scripture_n right_a but_o the_o copulative_a do_v not_o always_o equal_o reduplicate_v the_o act_n to_o diverse_a object_n in_o the_o proverb_n it_o be_v say_v fear_v god_n and_o the_o king_n yet_o the_o king_n be_v not_o to_o be_v fear_v equal_o with_o god_n so_o they_o believe_v god_n and_o moses_n in_o the_o curt_a fashion_n of_o hebrew_n speech_n but_o they_o do_v not_o believe_v moses_n as_o they_o do_v god_n god_n for_o himself_o upon_o his_o own_o veracity_n moses_n for_o god_n now_o let_v they_o prove_v that_o god_n speak_v by_o the_o church_n as_o he_o speak_v by_o moses_n and_o we_o have_v do_v god_n speak_v to_o moses_n face_n to_o face_n do_v he_o speak_v so_o to_o the_o church_n he_o speak_v then_o to_o moses_n immediate_o do_v he_o speak_v so_o to_o the_o church_n he_o speak_v to_o and_o by_o moses_n who_o be_v king_n in_o jesuron_n aaron_z be_v formal_o the_o high_a priest_n do_v he_o speak_v so_o now_o to_o and_o by_o civil_a magistrate_n if_o he_o do_v where_o be_v the_o privilege_n of_o the_o church_n which_o they_o vaunt_v of_o if_o not_o why_o do_v they_o urge_v that_o text_n it_o be_v true_a rex_fw-la est_fw-la mixta_fw-la persona_fw-la cum_fw-la sacerdote_fw-la but_o this_o maxim_n be_v not_o for_o they_o their_o maxim_n be_v invert_v sacerdos_n est_fw-la mixta_fw-la persona_fw-la cum_fw-la rege_fw-la moses_n moral_o wrought_v miracle_n so_o do_v not_o now_o the_o church_n if_o xary_n can_v indeed_o have_v wrought_v miracle_n in_o the_o indies_n why_o do_v he_o corrupt_v the_o gospel_n in_o short_a when_o they_o can_v prove_v that_o the_o church_n speak_v all_o they_o speak_v by_o revelation_n from_o god_n as_o the_o jew_n believe_v that_o what_o moses_n speak_v he_o speak_v from_o god_n than_o they_o may_v apply_v that_o text_n to_o god_n and_o the_o church_n which_o be_v apply_v to_o god_n and_o moses_n the_o sense_n of_o their_o believe_a moses_n be_v that_o they_o believe_v what_o he_o say_v to_o be_v speak_v from_o god_n this_o be_v now_o the_o question_n of_o the_o church_n therefore_o they_o shall_v not_o have_v compare_v moses_n and_o the_o church_n but_o moses_n and_o a_o apostle_n this_o have_v be_v more_o symbolical_a but_o this_o will_v not_o have_v be_v serviceable_a well_o then_o if_o they_o will_v have_v be_v content_v with_o this_o that_o the_o church_n shall_v have_v be_v subordinate_a to_o scripture_n the_o quarrel_n will_v soon_o be_v end_v what_o then_o will_v they_o have_v the_o scripture_n subordinate_a to_o the_o church_n adieone_fw-mi pudorem_fw-la cum_fw-la pudicitia_fw-la perdiderunt_fw-la so_o he_o say_v the_o church_n be_v by_o st._n paul_n call_v the_o pillar_n and_o ground_n of_o truth_n without_o subordination_n to_o scripture_n as_o than_o not_o write_v ans_fw-fr will_v they_o hold_v themselves_o to_o this_o that_o what_o be_v not_o say_v in_o scripture_n in_o term_n be_v not_o to_o be_v construe_v as_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o scripture_n if_o they_o will_v then_o what_o will_v become_v of_o their_o point_n of_o difference_n as_o to_o scripture_n if_o they_o will_v not_o than_o this_o distinction_n be_v not_o to_o be_v reject_v upon_o that_o account_n because_o it_o be_v not_o say_v so_o there_o but_o second_o his_o reason_n because_o scripture_n then_o be_v not_o write_v be_v to_o be_v examine_v if_o he_o understand_v it_o absolute_o it_o be_v false_a be_v not_o the_o old_a testament_n then_o write_v and_o if_o the_o romanist_n fetch_v his_o monarchy_n of_o the_o church_n from_o the_o anaology_n to_o the_o jewish_a high_a priest_n why_o shall_v not_o the_o old_a scripture_n be_v sufficient_a to_o subordinate_a the_o church_n and_o if_o the_o scripture_n be_v then_o sufficient_a as_o st._n paul_n say_v to_o make_v wise_a unto_o salvation_n before_o the_o canon_n be_v finish_v be_v it_o not_o able_a to_o bear_v the_o church_n dependence_n upon_o it_o and_o be_v it_o not_o as_o able_a now_o when_o the_o canon_n be_v complete_v as_o to_o the_o time_n of_o the_o church_n before_o any_o part_n of_o scripture_n be_v write_v we_o have_v several_a time_n speak_v before_o put_v it_o into_o a_o syllogism_n thus_o that_o which_o god_n speak_v we_o be_v bind_v to_o believe_v upon_o account_n of_o his_o veracity_n that_o which_o the_o church_n speak_v to_o we_o god_n speak_v therefore_o now_o as_o to_o the_o major_a whosoever_o deny_v it_o be_v interpretative_a a_o atheist_n the_o assumption_n than_o be_v that_o we_o stick_v at_o though_o the_o roman_a account_n we_o for_o this_o not_o christian_n the_o time_n of_o the_o church_n before_o any_o part_n of_o scripture_n be_v write_v be_v chief_o those_o wherein_o that_o proposition_n be_v consent_v to_o and_o yet_o not_o by_o all_o that_o know_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n therefore_o those_o who_o then_o do_v believe_v have_v not_o only_o a_o faith_n dispose_v they_o to_o believe_v that_o what_o god_n say_v be_v true_a for_o this_o be_v say_v by_o aristotle_n in_o effect_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d this_o be_v a_o proposition_n of_o reason_n that_o what_o god_n say_v be_v true_a but_o they_o have_v a_o divine_a faith_n habituate_a they_o to_o the_o belief_n that_o that_o which_o be_v speak_v by_o the_o church_n be_v true_o communicate_v to_o the_o church_n from_o god_n now_o here_o the_o hinge_n turn_v whether_o their_o faith_n terminate_v upon_o the_o church_n as_o the_o subjectum_fw-la quo_fw-la or_o upon_o the_o matter_n deliver_v by_o the_o church_n as_o the_o subjectum_fw-la quod_fw-la we_o deny_v the_o former_a because_o divine_a faith_n can_v rise_v upon_o humane_a testimony_n &_o therefore_o faith_n can_v not_o be_v cause_v by_o such_o a_o testimony_n which_o be_v humane_a without_o a_o revelation_n from_o god_n that_o what_o the_o church_n do_v speak_v it_o do_v speak_v from_o god_n therefore_o the_o church_n have_v itself_o then_o towards_o faith_n as_o propose_v the_o matter_n not_o as_o resolve_v the_o assurance_n and_o can_v we_o not_o then_o as_o well_o be_v now_o assure_v that_o what_o the_o scripture_n do_v propose_v be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n as_o what_o the_o church_n propose_v then_o be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o so_o faith_n must_v at_o length_n not_o only_o cause_v we_o to_o believe_v that_o what_o god_n say_v be_v true_a but_o also_o to_o believe_v that_o god_n have_v say_v this_o therefore_o he_o like_v not_o then_o my_o reason_n for_o the_o subordination_n of_o the_o church_n to_o scripture_n not_o for_o the_o reason_n against_o which_o other_o reason_n will_v soon_o be_v find_v ans_fw-fr this_o will_v require_v a_o very_a good_a intention_n but_o thus_o he_o be_v please_v to_o put_v off_o my_o discourse_n bellarmin_n prove_v his_o proposition_n by_o scripture_n by_o reason_n by_o father_n therefore_o he_o make_v his_o head_n of_o proof_n and_o hold_v of_o faith_n and_o another_o will_v say_v that_o my_o adversary_n be_v beat_v out_o of_o all_o their_o hold_n he_o say_v to_o my_o reason_n here_o against_o it_o other_o reason_n will_v soon_o be_v find_v when_o they_o be_v find_v we_o shall_v find_v answer_n let_v they_o tell_v i_o from_o who_o the_o church_n have_v its_o authority_n they_o will_v say_v from_o christ_n well_o he_o be_v suppose_v the_o author_n but_o where_o be_v the_o instrument_n and_o patent_n for_o our_o knowledge_n that_o christ_n have_v pass_v such_o a_o grant_n the_o church_n say_v it_o they_o will_v say_v
but_o first_o the_o church_n universal_a do_v not_o say_v it_o second_o who_o of_o they_o have_v prove_v that_o the_o church_n be_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d they_o bear_v witness_n of_o themselves_o therefore_o their_o testimony_n be_v not_o true_a not_o in_o modo_fw-la if_o it_o be_v true_a in_o materia_fw-la three_o what_o the_o church_n can_v say_v amount_n but_o to_o a_o prudential_a motive_n or_o congruous_a inducement_n but_o what_o be_v it_o which_o ground_n faith_n and_o bind_v faith_n and_o make_v it_o a_o divine_a belief_n if_o not_o what_o be_v say_v in_o scripture_n without_o this_o what_o be_v the_o church_n but_o a_o company_n of_o man_n in_o naturalibus_fw-la the_o roman_a do_v not_o so_o much_o believe_v this_o or_o that_o because_o god_n say_v it_o but_o they_o believe_v god_n say_v it_o because_o the_o church_n say_v it_o but_o the_o church_n virtual_a in_o the_o pope_n representative_a in_o a_o council_n diffusive_a in_o the_o people_n signify_v nothing_o without_o religion_n the_o question_n than_o be_v what_o religion_n make_v the_o church_n which_o we_o be_v to_o believe_v not_o reason_n satisfy_v we_o in_o this_o because_o some_o principle_n of_o religion_n do_v transcend_v reason_n and_o because_o reason_n can_v by_o its_o principle_n produce_v faith_n of_o proper_a name_n then_o we_o must_v have_v somewhat_o which_o be_v suppose_v as_o a_o common_a principle_n whereby_o true_a religion_n be_v discern_v not_o the_o church_n for_o the_o question_n be_v which_o be_v the_o church_n what_o then_o but_o scripture_n let_v they_o then_o think_v upon_o the_o former_a text_n for_o sufficiency_n of_o scripture_n which_o if_o they_o be_v acknowledge_v will_v save_v we_o this_o dispute_n and_o let_v they_o think_v upon_o that_o text_n esa_n the_o 8._o the_o 20._o to_o the_o law_n and_o to_o the_o testimony_n if_o they_o speak_v not_o according_a to_o this_o word_n it_o be_v because_o there_o be_v no_o light_n in_o they_o that_o which_o be_v refer_v to_o another_o for_o direction_n be_v subordinate_a thereunto_o the_o church_n be_v refer_v to_o the_o law_n and_o to_o the_o testimony_n therefore_o it_o be_v subordinate_a if_o they_o speak_v not_o according_a to_o this_o word_n as_o write_v it_o be_v because_o there_o be_v no_o light_n in_o they_o another_o text_n may_v be_v name_v 1._o epist_n of_o st._n peter_n the_o 1._o ch_n 23._o ver_fw-la be_v bear_v again_o not_o of_o corruptible_a seed_n but_o incorruptible_a by_o the_o word_n of_o god_n which_o live_v and_o abide_v for_o ever_o so_o the_o apostle_n from_o whence_o we_o thus_o argue_v that_o which_o be_v beget_v of_o the_o word_n be_v subordinate_a to_o it_o the_o church_n be_v beget_v by_o the_o word_n therefore_o their_o argument_n be_v retort_v by_o the_o contrary_a for_o the_o word_n in_o the_o substance_n of_o it_o must_v be_v before_o the_o church_n because_o the_o church_n be_v beget_v by_o the_o word_n therefore_o the_o church_n must_v depend_v upon_o the_o word_n which_o live_v and_o abide_v for_o ever_o and_o this_o better_a suit_n the_o stand_a character_n of_o scripture_n than_o the_o loose_a and_o fluent_a or_o fluxive_a way_n of_o tradition_n and_o how_o come_v tradition_n into_o the_o world_n by_o the_o first_o church_n they_o will_v say_v well_o and_o how_o come_v the_o first_o church_n to_o be_v such_o what_o do_v they_o join_v together_o in_o the_o profession_n of_o religion_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d as_o some_o say_v the_o world_n come_v together_o by_o the_o casual_a concurrence_n of_o atom_n the_o first_o church_n viritim_fw-la be_v begottten_v by_o the_o word_n through_o the_o spirit_n so_o in_o the_o ver_fw-la before_o see_v you_o have_v purify_v your_o soul_n in_o obey_v the_o truth_n through_o the_o spirit_n then_o all_o be_v to_o be_v resolve_v into_o the_o word_n quod_fw-la est_fw-la primum_fw-la in_o generatione_n est_fw-la ultimum_fw-la resolutione_n so_o aquinas_n omne_fw-la reducitur_fw-la ad_fw-la principium_fw-la all_o be_v to_o be_v reduce_v to_o the_o first_o principle_n therefore_o they_o will_v never_o reconcile_v st._n paul_n and_o irenaeus_n unless_o they_o admit_v my_o distinction_n of_o the_o church_n then_o that_o which_o frenaeus_fw-la say_v will_n well_o agree_v with_o that_o of_o st._n paul_n st._n paul_n say_v as_o we_o common_o read_v it_o the_o church_n be_v the_o pillar_n and_o ground_n of_o truth_n st._n irenaeus_n say_v the_o scripture_n be_v the_o pillar_n of_o truth_n both_o agree_v for_o subordinata_fw-la non_fw-la pugnant_fw-la subordinates_n make_v no_o war_n let_v they_o not_o therefore_o tell_v i_o that_o what_o god_n tell_v i_o by_o his_o church_n i_o be_o to_o admit_v this_o we_o admit_v but_o let_v they_o tell_v i_o how_o i_o shall_v infallible_o know_v that_o he_o tell_v i_o so_o by_o the_o church_n and_o let_v they_o tell_v i_o how_o i_o shall_v know_v the_o church_n but_o by_o letter_n of_o credence_n namely_o in_o scripture_n how_o can_v i_o divine_a whether_o there_o be_v to_o be_v a_o chureh_n and_o which_o be_v the_o true_a church_n and_o which_o the_o true_a religion_n without_o scripture_n and_o nemo_fw-la tenetur_fw-la derinare_fw-la as_o the_o say_n so_o that_o that_o which_o he_o say_v that_o the_o church_n be_v first_o believe_v independent_o on_o scripture_n depend_v neither_o upon_o scripture_n nor_o catholic_n church_n nor_o reason_n take_v scripture_n in_o the_o matter_n of_o it_o and_o that_o which_o he_o say_v have_v no_o consistency_n in_o save_v religion_n there_o be_v nothing_o before_o it_o not_o only_o in_o signo_fw-la rationis_fw-la but_o also_o in_o time_n because_o the_o church_n be_v beget_v of_o the_o word_n of_o god_n we_o deny_v not_o that_o the_o church_n be_v make_v use_n of_o to_o dispose_v we_o to_o faith_n of_o scripture_n but_o this_o do_v not_o resolve_v we_o because_o itself_o of_o itself_o resolu_v but_o into_o a_o moral_a capacity_n which_o make_v not_o faith_n proper_o call_v not_o faith_n divine_a therefore_o in_o genere_fw-la credibilium_fw-la the_o first_o proposition_n to_o the_o church_n be_v that_o the_o scripture_n be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o without_o its_o testimony_n of_o the_o church_n it_o can_v be_v say_v to_o be_v credible_a in_o the_o sense_n of_o divine_a faith_n therefore_o if_o he_o mean_v that_o the_o church_n be_v first_o believe_v independent_o on_o scripture_n namely_o upon_o the_o account_n of_o humane_a faith_n we_o may_v grant_v it_o of_o the_o universal_a church_n but_o what_o be_v this_o to_o our_o purpose_n since_o we_o be_v dispute_v about_o faith_n divine_a if_o he_o take_v it_o of_o divine_a faith_n this_o will_v be_v to_o purpose_n but_o that_o it_o be_v not_o true_a yet_o he_o proceed_v so_o he_o that_o begin_v to_o be_v a_o christian_a can_v admit_v of_o scripture_n as_o man_n admit_v of_o the_o first_o principle_n of_o science_n ans_fw-fr nor_o do_v we_o say_v so_o ordinary_o he_o begin_v with_o prudential_a motive_n from_o without_o he_o use_v argument_n draw_v from_o out_o of_o scripture_n but_o the_o question_n be_v whether_o these_o motive_n be_v productive_a of_o faith_n in_o he_o and_o he_o seem_v to_o say_v as_o much_o as_o device_n it_o because_o he_o say_v in_o respect_n of_o we_o the_o church_n be_v first_o believe_v independent_o of_o scripture_n so_o then_o the_o way_n by_o the_o church_n be_v imperfect_a as_o the_o way_n of_o knowledge_n by_o those_o thing_n which_o be_v more_o know_v quoad_fw-la nos_fw-la but_o in_o the_o way_n of_o faith_n which_o make_v the_o assent_n more_o firm_a and_o certain_a we_o must_v begin_v with_o scripture_n upon_o which_o the_o church_n depend_v to_o join_v issue_n then_o we_o at_o first_o lead_v man_n to_o the_o faith_n of_o scripture_n by_o the_o way_n of_o the_o church_n as_o the_o samaritan_n be_v lead_v to_o christ_n by_o the_o voice_n of_o the_o woman_n but_o faith_n do_v not_o rest_v here_o because_o they_o who_o deny_v the_o scripture_n may_v deny_v the_o church_n and_o may_v question_v its_o credibility_n therefore_o since_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n do_v de_fw-fr se_fw-mi terminate_v its_o self_n in_o the_o testimony_n of_o man_n we_o will_v have_v our_o faith_n by_o such_o a_o way_n as_o be_v proportionable_a to_o it_o which_o if_o it_o be_v faith_n divine_a must_v rely_v upon_o some_o divine_a authority_n and_o this_o way_n the_o scripture_n must_v be_v more_o know_v than_o the_o church_n because_o by_o the_o scripture_n we_o know_v the_o church_n in_o a_o distinct_a knowledge_n and_o without_o it_o can_v be_v no_o more_o than_o a_o individuum_fw-la vagum_fw-la sure_o it_o be_v scripture_n which_o make_v individuum_fw-la demonstrativum_fw-la and_o they_o be_v wont_v to_o prove_v it_o determinatum_fw-la as_o in_o petrus_n by_o the_o scripture_n and_o as_o for_o the_o criticism_n in_o the_o forename_a text_n of_o scripture_n to_o timothy_n about_o the_o
also_o confess_v yet_o i_o also_o say_v that_o this_o church_n of_o christ_n must_v be_v confess_v to_o be_v infallible_a but_o withal_o i_o will_v have_v every_o one_o know_v that_o the_o roman_a church_n do_v oblige_v to_o no_o more_o then_o to_o believe_v that_o the_o pope_n define_v with_o a_o lawful_a general_n council_n can_v err_v for_o it_o be_v no_o necessary_a article_n of_o faith_n to_o believe_v that_o the_o pope_n or_o head_n of_o the_o church_n can_v err_v when_o he_o define_v without_o a_o general_n council_n now_o that_o this_o definition_n of_o a_o whole_a general_n council_n be_v infallible_a ought_v not_o to_o seem_v strange_a to_o any_o christian_n for_o who_o can_v think_v it_o strange_a that_o christ_n for_o the_o secure_a direction_n of_o the_o first_o christian_n who_o the_o apostle_n convert_v shall_v give_v this_o infallibility_n to_o all_o and_o every_o one_o of_o the_o apostle_n and_o that_o he_o shall_v regard_v so_o little_a the_o secure_a direction_n of_o 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necessary_o to_o be_v believe_v under_o pain_n of_o damnation_n which_o point_n be_v not_o at_o all_o set_v down_o in_o any_o clear_a scripture_n for_o these_o point_v it_o be_v manifest_a that_o we_o can_v have_v no_o other_o ground_n then_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n if_o this_o be_v not_o infallible_a than_o we_o have_v only_o fallible_a ground_n which_o can_v be_v a_o ground_n of_o faith_n in_o the_o 16._o number_n i_o have_v confirm_v the_o same_o doctrine_n by_o the_o authority_n of_o saint_n austin_n and_o saint_n chrysostome_n in_o the_o 17._o number_n i_o have_v prove_v this_o doctrine_n clear_o out_o of_o god_n promise_n that_o he_o will_v build_v this_o his_o church_n upon_o a_o rock_n and_o that_o the_o gate_n of_o hell_n shall_v not_o prevail_v against_o it_o which_o the_o gate_n of_o hell_n may_v easy_o do_v if_o the_o church_n can_v come_v to_o teach_v damnable_a error_n carry_v she_o and_o her_o child_n into_o the_o gate_n of_o hell_n itself_o the_o same_o 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why_o so_o mark_v if_o his_o ground_n be_v not_o as_o i_o tell_v you_o because_o say_v he_o i_o have_v believe_v the_o gospel_n itself_o upon_o the_o preach_n of_o the_o catholic_n can_v he_o more_o clear_o ground_n upon_o the_o infallible_a authority_n of_o their_o teach_n then_o upon_o this_o to_o believe_v the_o gospel_n itself_o he_o go_v on_o thus_o again_o if_o you_o hold_v to_o the_o gospel_n my_o hold_n shall_v still_o be_v on_o the_o authority_n of_o that_o church_n upon_o who_o authority_n i_o believe_v the_o gospel_n i_o say_v he_o will_v hold_v myself_o to_o those_o by_o who_o teach_v i_o have_v believe_v the_o gospel_n and_o these_o command_v i_o i_o will_v not_o believe_v thou_o and_o saint_n austin_n go_v so_o far_o upon_o this_o ground_n as_o a_o ground_n infallible_a that_o he_o say_v if_o perhaps_o you_o manichaean_o can_v find_v i_o any_o clear_a place_n in_o the_o gospel_n to_o prove_v that_o apostleship_n of_o manichaeus_n that_o then_o indeed_o they_o shall_v 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man_n the_o church_n have_v have_v now_o show_v the_o church_n to_o be_v the_o judge_n appoint_v by_o christ_n for_o all_o controversy_n and_o that_o the_o definition_n of_o this_o judge_n be_v infallible_a and_o consequent_o a_o sufficient_a ground_n for_o faith_n i_o will_v now_o show_v that_o all_o this_o doctrine_n must_v be_v apply_v to_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o can_v be_v apply_v to_o the_o protestant_a church_n for_o first_o this_o protestant_a church_n do_v not_o so_o much_o as_o lay_v claim_n either_o to_o have_v any_o such_o authority_n as_o be_v judge_n in_o all_o point_n of_o controversy_n or_o to_o the_o have_v any_o infallible_a authority_n if_o either_o of_o these_o belong_v to_o she_o she_o will_v know_v she_o own_o right_a from_o which_o she_o now_o disclaim_v and_o so_o by_o her_o own_o doctrine_n she_o can_v be_v judge_n or_o infallible_a for_o so_o as_o a_o infallible_a judge_n she_o shall_v judge_v herself_o to_o be_v fallible_a no_o more_o need_n to_o be_v say_v to_o exclude_v she_o or_o any_o other_o church_n acknowledge_v by_o evident_a and_o infallible_a scripture_n as_o they_o profess_v their_o own_o fallibility_n and_o that_o they_o be_v not_o judge_n in_o controversy_n be_v infallible_o fallible_a and_o so_o uncapable_a of_o these_o privilege_n as_o be_v evident_a and_o even_o this_o may_v serve_v to_o exclude_v all_o other_o church_n but_o the_o roman_a she_o only_o claim_v as_o she_o be_v bind_v to_o do_v her_o due_a right_n to_o be_v judge_n in_o all_o controversy_n and_o her_o infallible_a authority_n to_o decide_v they_o with_o truth_n all_o other_o church_n of_o all_o other_o religion_n do_v say_v indeed_o that_o they_o be_v themselves_o the_o only_a true_a church_n but_o none_o of_o they_o say_v themselves_o to_o be_v either_o
by_o those_o place_n of_o scripture_n which_o place_n as_o they_o can_v not_o before_o the_o meeting_n of_o the_o council_n so_o they_o can_v after_o the_o meeting_n of_o the_o council_n full_o define_v determine_v and_o decide_v these_o controversy_n now_o sure_o it_o be_v clear_a by_o these_o act_n of_o the_o first_o four_o council_n which_o council_n your_o english_a church_n hold_v for_o lawful_a that_o the_o father_n of_o these_o council_n never_o so_o much_o as_o doubt_v but_o that_o they_o have_v all_o plenitude_n of_o power_n and_o authority_n from_o god_n to_o define_v and_o final_o to_o determine_v those_o controversy_n still_o arise_v and_o they_o have_v grievous_o wrong_v the_o world_n by_o excommunicate_v all_o such_o as_o shall_v gainsay_v what_o they_o have_v define_v and_o determine_v if_o error_n and_o falsity_n and_o contradiction_n to_o scripture_n can_v have_v be_v find_v in_o their_o definition_n and_o determination_n what_o you_o touch_v concern_v the_o berean_o i_o answer_v full_o chap._n 3._o numb_a 14._o 6._o whereas_o you_o add_v fourthly_a that_o the_o decision_n of_o the_o church_n though_o unprovided_a of_o infallibility_n do_v yet_o oblige_v unto_o peace_n though_o their_o judgement_n can_v claim_v a_o undisputed_a assent_n yet_o the_o power_n they_o have_v from_o christ_n do_v require_v a_o undisturbance_n in_o the_o difference_n you_o teach_v by_o word_n what_o the_o deed_n of_o your_o glorious_a reformer_n have_v notorious_o gainsay_v second_o see_v that_o a_o general_a council_n as_o you_o in_o your_o first_o paper_n confess_v be_v the_o high_a court_n on_o earth_n to_o hear_v and_o determine_v controversy_n if_o her_o determination_n may_v be_v erroneous_a and_o these_o erroneous_a determination_n be_v to_o be_v accept_v peaceable_o reverent_o and_o without_o disturbance_n in_o what_o a_o pitiful_a case_n shall_v god_n whole_a church_n be_v which_o have_v no_o high_a court_n from_o which_o relief_n may_v be_v hope_v be_v bind_v to_o conform_v and_o subscribe_v to_o erroneous_a definition_n and_o all_o preacher_n be_v silence_v and_o oblige_v not_o to_o open_v their_o mouth_n against_o these_o error_n do_v it_o beseem_v the_o wisdom_n of_o christ_n to_o appoint_v such_o a_o government_n in_o his_o church_n which_o shall_v leave_v open_a so_o wide_a a_o gap_n to_o error_n which_o be_v by_o command_n from_o the_o high_a authority_n on_o earth_n preach_v by_o so_o many_o and_o not_o so_o much_o as_o contradict_v by_o one_o must_v needs_o increase_v to_o a_o wonderful_a height_n will_v any_o wise_a lawmaker_n proceed_v thus_o if_o they_o can_v help_v it_o as_o well_o as_o christ_n can_v by_o continue_v in_o his_o church_n that_o infallibility_n which_o you_o will_v confess_v it_o have_v those_o two_o thousand_o year_n before_o scripture_n be_v write_v and_o which_o this_o church_n of_o christ_n have_v before_o all_o the_o whole_a canon_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n be_v finish_v which_o be_v for_o the_o first_o forty_o year_n of_o the_o church_n 7._o vain_a be_v your_o fear_n that_o we_o shall_v become_v hypocrite_n in_o differ_v by_o one_o outward_a act_n from_o our_o inward_a act_n of_o belief_n for_o any_o wise_a man_n may_v inward_o persuade_v himself_o although_o i_o by_o my_o force_n of_o wit_n can_v see_v how_o such_o a_o point_n define_v by_o a_o whole_a general_a council_n shall_v be_v true_a yet_o if_o i_o have_v wit_n i_o can_v but_o persuade_v myself_o even_o according_a to_o humane_a wisdom_n that_o so_o grave_a a_o judgement_n of_o a_o whole_a council_n be_v far_o more_o likely_a to_o see_v the_o truth_n then_o my_o private_a judgement_n and_o therefore_o rather_o to_o be_v interior_o embrace_v again_o i_o may_v discourse_v thus_o all_o the_o place_n alleadgeable_a against_o the_o definition_n of_o council_n or_o of_o scripture_n be_v place_n clear_a or_o not_o clear_a if_o not_o clear_a then_o clear_o i_o be_o imprudent_a and_o impudent_a to_o oppose_v in_o a_o point_n not_o clear_a my_o private_a judgement_n of_o discretion_n against_o the_o public_a judgement_n of_o all_o christendom_n far_o more_o likely_a in_o a_o point_n not_o clear_a to_o hit_v upon_o the_o truth_n than_o i_o be_o now_o if_o these_o place_n alledgable_a against_o the_o definition_n of_o council_n be_v clear_a and_o evident_a it_o be_v a_o evident_a and_o clear_a folly_n in_o i_o to_o think_v that_o so_o wise_a a_o assembly_n shall_v have_v so_o universal_a a_o blindness_n as_o that_o none_o of_o they_o shall_v be_v able_a to_o discover_v that_o which_o be_v clear_a and_o evident_a even_o in_o my_o short_a sight_n see_v chap._n 4._o numb_a 51._o again_o i_o may_v and_o aught_o to_o know_v that_o the_o holy_a ghost_n have_v promise_v a_o assistance_n to_o his_o church_n sufficient_a to_o secure_v it_o from_o bring_v in_o any_o error_n as_o i_o shall_v show_v chapter_n 4_o numb_a 28.29_o 30_o 31_o 32_o 33_o 34_o 35._o and_o this_o principle_n will_v beat_v down_o to_o the_o ground_n all_o opposition_n which_o a_o humble_a soul_n can_v make_v who_o will_v captivate_v her_o understanding_n in_o this_o case_n unto_o the_o obedience_n of_o faith_n as_o the_o apostle_n speak_v 8._o and_o when_o you_o ask_v i_o wherein_o you_o oppose_v general_a council_n i_o answer_v first_o that_o you_o oppose_v they_o even_o in_o that_o most_o fundamental_a ground_n upon_o which_o all_o council_n hitherto_o have_v still_o suppose_v themselves_o to_o set_v as_o judge_n with_o full_a commission_n to_o determine_v secure_o all_o controversy_n oblige_v all_o christian_n to_o conform_v to_o their_o definition_n by_o such_o censure_n as_o be_v still_o hold_v to_o be_v ratify_v in_o heaven_n other_o will_v tell_v you_o divers_a other_o opposition_n you_o have_v with_o council_n and_o even_o in_o this_o place_n you_o tell_v all_o how_o little_a you_o credit_v council_n when_o you_o charge_v they_o with_o speak_v contradiction_n but_o when_o you_o come_v to_o speak_v your_o mind_n more_o large_o you_o do_v your_o uttermost_a endeavour_n to_o make_v the_o world_n think_v that_o they_o have_v not_o sufficient_a assurance_n that_o any_o council_n be_v as_o yet_o a_o lawful_a general_n council_n i_o need_v no_o further_o proof_n of_o these_o your_o endeavour_n then_o all_o those_o manifold_a objection_n which_o you_o put_v and_o i_o answer_v in_o my_o 4._o chapter_n numb_a 20.21_o 9_o and_o when_o you_o ask_v again_o why_o you_o be_v charge_v as_o if_o you_o be_v opposite_a to_o the_o true_a catholic_a church_n i_o answer_v christ_n have_v in_o all_o age_n since_o his_o time_n a_o true_a catholic_a church_n and_o consequent_o he_o have_v such_o a_o church_n upon_o earth_n when_o your_o reformation_n as_o you_o call_v it_o begin_v but_o at_o this_o your_o reformation_n you_o do_v oppose_v in_o very_a many_o and_o very_o important_a point_n of_o doctrine_n not_o only_o the_o roman_n but_o all_o other_o church_n upon_o earth_n therefore_o without_o doubt_n you_o oppose_v the_o true_o catholic_a church_n in_o many_o and_o very_o important_a point_n and_o in_o plain_a english_a i_o tell_v you_o this_o argument_n which_o be_v in_o lawful_a form_n be_v unanswerable_a and_o when_o you_o say_v that_o when_o you_o differ_v without_o opposition_n you_o keep_v the_o peace_n of_o the_o church_n without_o question_n i_o answer_v that_o your_o reformer_n do_v apparent_o in_o many_o and_o most_o important_a point_n differ_v from_o all_o church_n christ_n have_v then_o upon_o the_o earth_n in_o opinion_n of_o public_a doctrine_n censure_v such_o and_o such_o point_n as_o they_o all_o hold_v to_o be_v erroneous_a superstitious_a opposite_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o in_o this_o opposition_n you_o continue_v still_o though_o in_o this_o whole_a age_n you_o have_v not_o be_v able_a to_o name_v one_o age_n in_o this_o last_o thousand_o year_n in_o which_o christ_n have_v a_o true_o catholic_a church_n upon_o earth_n agree_v with_o you_o in_o those_o many_o and_o most_o important_a point_n in_o which_o your_o reformer_n tax_v we_o to_o have_v oppose_v the_o scripture_n and_o as_o for_o exterior_a division_n you_o can_v name_v the_o church_n upon_o earth_n from_o which_o you_o do_v not_o divide_v yourselves_o at_o your_o reformation_n and_o i_o challenge_v you_o to_o tell_v i_o if_o you_o can_v to_o what_o church_n on_o earth_n then_o visible_a you_o do_v join_v yourselves_o or_o who_o acknowledge_v you_o to_o be_v of_o their_o communion_n 10._o to_o prove_v yet_o further_o that_o we_o be_v not_o bind_v to_o submit_v our_o judgement_n to_o the_o church_n you_o use_v as_o you_o say_v my_o own_o argument_n that_o we_o be_v bind_v to_o submit_v our_o judgement_n only_o to_o those_o who_o can_v judge_v of_o the_o inward_a act_n but_o sir_n i_o never_o say_v any_o such_o thing_n for_o how_o know_v we_o whether_o the_o scripture_n writer_n or_o the_o apostle_n themselves_o do_v know_v without_o
of_o you_o in_o this_o dispute_n you_o have_v first_o say_v you_o know_v not_o what_o and_o now_o you_o know_v not_o what_o to_o say_v tell_v we_o where_o the_o original_n of_o infalibilitie_n lie_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d sure_o it_o do_v not_o become_v infalibilitie_n to_o be_v so_o reserve_v to_o pass_v this_o you_o tell_v i_o in_o your_o four_o parnell_n that_o i_o lay_v to_o your_o charge_n the_o suppose_n of_o the_o question_n and_o i_o be_o still_o of_o that_o mind_n for_o if_o you_o say_v that_o as_o thing_n stand_v we_o have_v no_o other_o assurance_n to_o ground_v our_o faith_n upon_o but_o the_o church_n you_o do_v plain_o suppose_v that_o which_o be_v main_o in_o question_n and_o so_o must_v do_v until_o you_o prove_v it_o and_o i_o still_o say_v unto_o you_o as_o i_o do_v that_o you_o do_v not_o well_o consider_v what_o you_o say_v in_o say_v as_o thing_n stand_v as_o if_o the_o rule_n of_o faith_n be_v a_o lisbian_a rule_n and_o may_v alter_v upon_o occasion_n and_o as_o if_o the_o scripture_n must_v be_v accommodate_v to_o the_o use_n of_o the_o church_n yes_o intellectus_fw-la currit_fw-la cum_fw-la praxi_fw-la and_o the_o scripture_n be_v to_o follow_v the_o church_n and_o not_o the_o church_n the_o scripture_n will_v you_o have_v it_o so_o so_o it_o seem_v by_o what_o follow_v for_o so_o you_o answer_v that_o though_o god_n may_v have_v ordain_v otherwise_o yet_o as_o thing_n stand_v the_o church_n be_v the_o ground_n of_o our_o faith_n in_o all_o point_n speak_v of_o the_o last_o ground_n on_o which_o we_o must_v stand_v to_o wit_n not_o a_o humane_a but_o divine_a ground_n the_o pillar_n and_o ground_n of_o truth_n and_o what_o do_v you_o say_v here_o more_o than_o you_o say_v before_o or_o more_o than_o we_o can_v say_v mutatis_fw-la mutandis_fw-la though_o god_n can_v have_v ordain_v otherwise_o that_o there_o shall_v have_v be_v a_o stand_a council_n or_o a_o singular_a person_n successive_o infalible_a to_o have_v propose_v and_o determine_v all_o thing_n infalible_o yet_o as_o thing_n stand_v the_o scripture_n be_v the_o ground_n of_o our_o faith_n in_o all_o point_v necessary_a speak_v of_o the_o last_o ground_n on_o which_o we_o must_v stand_v not_o a_o humane_a but_o a_o divine_a ground_n wherein_o be_v we_o inferior_a to_o you_o but_o that_o we_o do_v not_o put_v in_o all_o point_n but_o we_o put_v in_o all_o point_v necessary_a and_o what_o need_v more_o and_o the_o church_n be_v not_o yet_o prove_v to_o determine_v any_o thing_n infalible_o the_o scripture_n propose_v all_o thing_n necessary_a infalible_o and_o i_o think_v you_o shall_v if_o you_o please_v think_v the_o scripture_n a_o divine_a ground_n rather_o than_o the_o church_n to_o take_v then_o your_o own_o principle_n the_o ground_n of_o faith_n must_v be_v divine_a the_o church_n be_v not_o a_o ground_n divine_a therefore_o no_o ground_n the_o major_n be_v your_o own_o the_o assumption_n be_v prove_v thus_o the_o testimony_n of_o man_n be_v humane_a the_o testimony_n of_o the_o church_n be_v the_o testimony_n of_o man_n therefore_o the_o first_o proposition_n in_o the_o ordinary_a capacity_n of_o man_n be_v plain_a for_o no_o effect_n can_v exceed_v the_o cause_n and_o the_o second_o proposition_n be_v as_o plain_a if_o the_o man_n that_o be_v of_o the_o church_n be_v consider_v as_o private_a man_n by_o your_o own_o ground_n but_o these_o man_n you_o say_v be_v in_o the_o capacity_n of_o a_o church_n be_v inspire_v by_o the_o holy_a ghost_n so_o as_o they_o can_v err_v in_o any_o point_n true_o if_o they_o be_v assist_v with_o the_o holy_a ghost_n well_o but_o how_o shall_v i_o know_v what_o a_o church_n be_v and_o whether_o such_o man_n be_v of_o the_o church_n and_o whether_o such_o man_n be_v assist_v with_o the_o holy_a ghost_n yea_o whether_o there_o be_v a_o holy_a ghost_n all_o these_o particular_n i_o must_v be_v satisfy_v in_o before_o that_o i_o can_v believe_v by_o a_o divine_a faith_n that_o what_o the_o church_n propose_v definitive_o be_v true_a a_o church_n can_v be_v in_o the_o nature_n of_o it_o express_v without_o a_o profession_n of_o that_o religion_n which_o direct_v man_n to_o his_o supernatural_a end_n now_o this_o religion_n require_v a_o supernatural_a revelation_n as_o aquinas_n dispute_v it_o in_o the_o begin_n of_o his_o sum_n then_o this_o religion_n must_v be_v reveal_v be_v not_o natural_o intelligible_a either_o by_o principle_n or_o work_n of_o nature_n where_o and_o how_o be_v this_o religion_n reveal_v you_o can_v say_v by_o the_o church_n for_o the_o question_n be_v of_o the_o church_n and_o so_o consequent_o how_o be_v it_o reveal_v that_o such_o be_v of_o the_o church_n and_o assist_v by_o the_o holy_a ghost_n or_o that_o there_o be_v a_o holy_a ghost_n expedite_v these_o question_n and_o again_o consider_v that_o s._n austin_n and_o other_o father_n have_v speak_v free_o of_o discern_v the_o church_n by_o scripture_n wheâ—_n in_o i_o be_o inform_v what_o religion_n be_v what_o a_o church_n which_o the_o true_a church_n and_o that_o there_o be_v a_o holy_a ghost_n again_o i_o must_v believe_v by_o a_o divine_a faith_n that_o the_o church_n be_v the_o pillar_n and_o ground_n of_o truth_n as_o you_o say_v well_o but_o how_o shall_v i_o come_v by_o this_o divine_a faith_n god_n infuse_v it_o you_o will_v say_v well_o but_o do_v he_o infuse_v it_o immediate_o as_o in_o respect_n of_o scripture_n so_o you_o must_v say_v well_o then_o can_v you_o think_v that_o he_o can_v infuse_v faith_n of_o the_o scripture_n immediate_o in_o respect_n of_o the_o church_n answer_v i_o be_v this_o faith_n wrought_v in_o i_o by_o the_o credibility_n of_o the_o church_n or_o not_o if_o not_o how_o if_o so_o than_o the_o church_n be_v natural_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d or_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o church_n must_v be_v resolve_v into_o the_o testimony_n of_o man_n extra_fw-la rationem_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la then_o be_v it_o of_o itself_o but_o humane_a therefore_o must_v you_o come_v to_o this_o that_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o church_n be_v infallible_a by_o athoritie_n of_o scripture_n well_o then_o if_o so_o than_o the_o church_n be_v not_o the_o last_o ground_n on_o which_o we_o must_v stand_v nor_o yet_o be_v it_o the_o first_o ground_n as_o we_o take_v it_o for_o a_o divine_a ground_n which_o you_o mean_v for_o it_o be_v not_o divine_a but_o by_o the_o word_n of_o god_n yea_o if_o the_o church_n be_v the_o last_o ground_n on_o which_o we_o must_v stand_v then_o why_o do_v you_o prove_v the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n by_o the_o authority_n of_o scripture_n and_o if_o you_o say_v that_o you_o also_o prove_v the_o scripture_n to_o be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n by_o the_o church_n yet_o not_o as_o the_o last_o ground_n but_o the_o church_n be_v resolve_v into_o the_o authority_n of_o scripture_n as_o the_o last_o ground_n for_o if_o the_o church_n have_v no_o be_v as_o such_o but_o by_o scripture_n in_o the_o substance_n of_o it_o than_o the_o church_n must_v be_v ultimate_o ground_v in_o scripture_n for_o that_o which_o be_v primum_fw-la in_o generatione_n be_v ultimum_fw-la in_o resolutione_n so_o a_o primo_fw-la ad_fw-la ultimum_fw-la the_o scripture_n be_v the_o ground_n of_o faith_n and_o so_o this_o will_v be_v contrary_a to_o what_o follow_v in_o your_o last_o that_o we_o do_v not_o first_o believe_v the_o church_n for_o the_o scripture_n if_o you_o speak_v of_o a_o general_a motive_n to_o believe_v the_o scripture_n so_o we_o may_v begin_v with_o the_o church_n upon_o the_o account_n of_o credible_a man_n as_o towards_o humane_a faith_n but_o if_o you_o speak_v of_o belief_n as_o divine_a so_o we_o can_v first_o begin_v with_o the_o church_n because_o we_o must_v first_o be_v assure_v of_o the_o church_n by_o the_o word_n of_o god_n under_o the_o formality_n of_o divine_a faith_n the_o word_n of_o god_n must_v be_v first_o in_o genere_fw-la credibilium_fw-la unless_o there_o be_v a_o resultance_n of_o a_o church_n out_o of_o natural_a principle_n which_o be_v not_o to_o be_v say_v and_o in_o your_o follow_a word_n you_o intimate_v as_o much_o as_o if_o we_o may_v first_o admit_v the_o scripture_n to_o be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o then_o prove_v by_o the_o scripture_n the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n if_o we_o may_v admit_v the_o scripture_n for_o god_n word_n first_o than_o first_o the_o scripture_n may_v be_v believe_v to_o be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n without_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n which_o be_v contrary_a to_o what_o you_o have_v say_v former_o then_o second_o the_o scripture_n must_v be_v the_o last_o ground_n of_o faith_n because_o as_o before_o that_o which_o be_v first_o in_o generation_n be_v last_o in_o resolution_n and_o
and_o be_v therefore_o assure_v we_o by_o the_o spirit_n not_o because_o it_o be_v the_o hard_a point_n but_o because_o it_o be_v the_o ground_n of_o all_o faith_n perhaps_o because_o our_o divine_n often_o call_v the_o scripture_n a_o undoubted_a principle_n the_o first_o principle_n you_o think_v they_o hold_v this_o principle_n like_o the_o first_o principle_n in_o science_n which_o be_v therefore_o indemonstrable_a because_o they_o be_v of_o themselves_o as_o evident_a as_o any_o reason_n you_o can_v bring_v to_o make_v they_o more_o evident_a ans_fw-fr no_o i_o have_v better_a reason_n for_o it_o than_o the_o expression_n of_o their_o own_o divine_n although_o we_o need_v no_o more_o if_o they_o in_o effect_n confess_v as_o much_o as_o will_v serve_v we_o in_o the_o dispute_n but_o it_o be_v impossible_a for_o they_o or_o any_o other_o to_o fix_v a_o foot_n in_o divinity_n but_o upon_o this_o ground_n or_o else_o we_o shall_v have_v no_o other_o assurance_n for_o the_o last_o resolution_n of_o faith_n than_o what_o we_o have_v in_o kind_n for_o virgil_n or_o cicero_n work_n yea_o moreover_o their_o own_o divine_n give_v this_o character_n of_o the_o scripture_n because_o it_o be_v true_a of_o it_o it_o be_v not_o true_a because_o they_o say_v it_o and_o yet_o if_o it_o be_v true_a because_o they_o say_v it_o we_o make_v use_v of_o the_o conclusion_n or_o if_o it_o be_v a_o unquestioned_a principle_n because_o it_o be_v already_o grant_v to_o be_v god_n word_n by_o all_o party_n then_o why_o do_v my_o adversary_n call_v this_o into_o question_n which_o be_v the_o subject_n of_o the_o question_n and_o by_o all_o party_n grant_v and_o also_o this_o make_v it_o to_o be_v a_o common_a principle_n that_o it_o be_v grant_v by_o all_o party_n and_o therefore_o be_v we_o to_o be_v try_v by_o it_o as_o by_o a_o common_a principle_n and_o not_o by_o the_o church_n which_o be_v not_o grant_v by_o all_o party_n to_o be_v that_o we_o shall_v be_v try_v by_o special_o if_o it_o be_v assume_v that_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v the_o only_a church_n for_o then_o there_o will_v be_v a_o double_a controversy_n one_o in_o thesi_fw-la whether_o all_o faith_n be_v ultimate_o to_o be_v resolve_v by_o the_o church_n and_o then_o another_o in_o hypothesi_fw-la whether_o the_o roman_a be_v the_o church_n but_o we_o now_o put_v together_o that_o which_o he_o distinguish_v the_o scripture_n be_v a_o undoubted_a principle_n and_o the_o first_o principle_n but_o not_o as_o the_o principle_n of_o science_n which_o be_v therefore_o indemonstrable_a etc._n etc._n we_o discourse_v thus_o that_o which_o be_v indemonstrable_a be_v as_o the_o principle_n of_o science_n but_o that_o which_o be_v as_o evident_a as_o any_o reason_n can_v be_v bring_v for_o it_o to_o make_v it_o more_o evident_a be_v indemonstrable_a therefore_o be_v it_o as_o a_o principle_n of_o science_n the_o proposition_n be_v with_o my_o adversary_n the_o property_n of_o the_o first_o principle_n in_o science_n the_o assumption_n be_v with_o my_o adversary_n the_o very_a ratio_fw-la formalis_fw-la indemonstrabilitatis_fw-la so_o then_o if_o the_o scripture_n to_o be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n be_v as_o evident_a as_o any_o reason_n that_o can_v be_v bring_v for_o it_o to_o make_v it_o more_o evident_a than_o we_o have_v what_o we_o now_o contend_v for_o now_o than_o if_o the_o scripture_n can_v be_v demonstrate_v to_o be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n by_o the_o church_n a_o priori_fw-la then_o be_v it_o as_o evident_a as_o any_o reason_n can_v be_v bring_v for_o it_o but_o verum_fw-la prius_fw-la for_o the_o church_n must_v be_v demonstrate_v by_o the_o scripture_n as_o we_o have_v often_o prove_v and_o if_o the_o scripture_n be_v demonstrate_v by_o the_o church_n a_o priori_fw-la then_o be_v the_o church_n the_o cause_n of_o scripture_n which_o they_o themselves_o do_v not_o say_v and_o therefore_o may_v we_o give_v a_o reason_n of_o the_o church_n by_o the_o scripture_n and_o not_o infallible_o of_o the_o scripture_n by_o the_o church_n and_o therefore_o be_v it_o as_o a_o prime_a principle_n in_o science_n indemonstrable_a and_o yet_o my_o adversary_n will_v circumvent_v i_o in_o the_o next_o number_n and_o bring_v i_o into_o a_o circle_n think_v that_o i_o be_o bind_v to_o give_v another_o proof_n by_o the_o spirit_n why_o by_o the_o spirit_n i_o do_v believe_v that_o the_o scripture_n be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n but_o we_o stop_v he_o at_o first_o before_o he_o go_v his_o round_n for_o he_o suppose_v that_o which_o be_v not_o to_o be_v suppose_v that_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o spirit_n be_v not_o sufficient_a to_o make_v itself_o good_a to_o we_o of_o itself_o and_o that_o therefore_o we_o need_v another_o revelation_n secure_a from_o all_o illusion_n to_o ascertain_v i_o the_o former_a ans_fw-fr this_o be_v little_o less_o than_o trifle_a for_o first_o we_o say_v not_o this_o internal_a testimony_n be_v provable_a to_o other_o faith_n objective_n be_v provable_a by_o scripture_n but_o faith_n subjective_n be_v not_o prove_v but_o somewhat_o show_v by_o a_o good_a life_n for_o faith_n work_v by_o love_n as_o st._n paul_n and_o optimus_fw-la syllogismus_fw-la bona_fw-la vita_fw-la as_o he_o say_v the_o best_a argument_n to_o other_o we_o have_v of_o faith_n be_v a_o good_a life_n but_o second_o we_o be_v as_o secure_v of_o the_o not_o be_v deceive_v in_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o spirit_n as_o the_o apostle_n be_v in_o the_o kind_n yea_o if_o we_o can_v be_v ascertain_v by_o the_o same_o testimony_n then_o how_o can_v the_o council_n be_v assure_v that_o they_o be_v infallible_o assist_v by_o the_o spirit_n yea_o three_o we_o be_v upon_o the_o high_a ground_n for_o the_o assecuration_n of_o our_o faith_n because_o we_o resolve_v it_o into_o that_o which_o be_v antecedent_n to_o the_o church_n and_o therefore_o have_v they_o less_o cause_n to_o put_v we_o upon_o interrogatory_n why_o we_o believe_v the_o scripture_n for_o if_o we_o do_v not_o believe_v it_o for_o itself_o we_o have_v no_o reason_n to_o believe_v the_o church_n to_o his_o dilemma_n then_o either_o i_o try_v the_o spirit_n whether_o it_o be_v of_o god_n or_o no_o if_o i_o do_v not_o how_o be_o i_o then_o secure_a if_o i_o do_v by_o what_o infallible_a mean_n if_o i_o say_v by_o the_o scripture_n you_o must_v needs_o laugh_v because_o you_o speak_v of_o the_o first_o act_n of_o belief_n etc._n etc._n ans_fw-fr we_o say_v first_o that_o he_o misappli_v the_o text_n of_o the_o apostle_n try_v the_o spirit_n 4.1_o 1_o joh._n 4.1_o it_o be_v not_o mean_v of_o the_o spirit_n of_o god_n i_o hope_v he_o think_v but_o of_o the_o spirit_n of_o man_n which_o be_v our_o argument_n against_o they_o and_o therefore_o can_v we_o not_o sit_v down_o with_o absolute_a belief_n to_o what_o be_v propose_v by_o man_n till_o we_o see_v it_o centre_v upon_o the_o word_n of_o god_n which_o we_o believe_v infallible_o come_v from_o god_n second_o the_o trial_n of_o the_o spirit_n there_o enjoin_v be_v by_o examine_v the_o matter_n whether_o proportionable_a to_o the_o word_n of_o faith_n but_o here_o he_o draw_v it_o to_o the_o trial_n of_o scripture_n itself_o which_o be_v the_o rule_n of_o trial_n three_o though_o we_o do_v not_o try_v the_o testimony_n of_o the_o spirit_n attest_v to_o we_o the_o truth_n of_o scripture_n yet_o the_o matter_n of_o scripture_n may_v we_o compare_v with_o universal_a tradition_n which_o serve_v we_o for_o our_o use_n in_o the_o ministry_n of_o the_o church_n not_o for_o our_o faith_n in_o the_o causality_n thereof_o four_o to_o be_v even_o with_o my_o adversary_n we_o return_v they_o their_o dilemma_n they_o say_v we_o must_v believe_v the_o scripture_n to_o be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n by_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o church_n which_o they_o say_v be_v infallible_a but_o we_o must_v infallible_o know_v that_o this_o testimony_n of_o the_o church_n be_v infallible_a by_o the_o spirit_n of_o truth_n which_o lead_v we_o into_o all_o truth_n and_o this_o can_v be_v infallible_o know_v but_o by_o a_o revelation_n secure_a from_o all_o illusion_n and_o how_o come_v they_o by_o this_o revelation_n either_o they_o try_v the_o spirit_n or_o not_o if_o not_o how_o can_v they_o be_v secure_a if_o they_o do_v by_o what_o infallible_a mean_n if_o they_o say_v by_o the_o church_n we_o must_v needs_o laugh_v because_o we_o speak_v of_o the_o first_o act_n of_o belief_n by_o which_o we_o first_o begin_v to_o believe_v the_o church_n to_o be_v infallible_a therefore_o all_o his_o again_n be_v send_v back_o again_o and_o the_o issue_n of_o all_o will_v come_v to_o this_o either_o this_o faith_n of_o the_o scripture_n to_o be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n must_v be_v resolve_v into_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o spirit_n or_o of_o the_o
merit_n it_o will_v be_v more_o meritorious_a to_o do_v that_o which_o be_v more_o meritorious_a without_o knowledge_n of_o it_o to_o be_v such_o because_o than_o they_o do_v it_o more_o free_a from_o intention_n of_o more_o merit_n 2._o if_o the_o distinction_n of_o a_o command_n be_v simple_o difficult_a as_o to_o the_o negative_a whether_o it_o be_v a_o command_n or_o not_o the_o omission_n of_o it_o be_v not_o without_o all_o hope_n damnative_n where_o there_o be_v general_a repentance_n and_o now_o to_o the_o counsel_n he_o say_v in_o clear_v this_o my_o tooth_n bite_v st._n paul_n who_o express_o suppose_v with_o i_o that_o there_o be_v counsel_n of_o perfection_n above_o thing_n of_o command_n and_o he_o name_v the_o 1_o ep._n to_o the_o cor._n 7.25_o and_o 38._o and_o then_o he_o say_v how_o do_v this_o agree_v with_o your_o strange_a divinity_n we_o answer_v very_o well_o with_o our_o divinity_n which_o be_v not_o so_o strange_a as_o true_a first_o they_o be_v too_o forward_o in_o the_o catch_n at_o the_o word_n counsel_n i_o give_v my_o counsel_n it_o be_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d now_o sure_o there_o be_v no_o great_a criticism_n in_o the_o difference_n betwixt_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d and_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d the_o former_a be_v a_o grave_n and_o wise_a opinion_n or_o sentence_n not_o a_o council_n in_o the_o roman_a sense_n or_o if_o it_o be_v take_v for_o a_o advice_n every_o advice_n of_o the_o apostle_n be_v not_o a_o pontifician_n counsel_n for_o this_o advice_n he_o may_v give_v they_o not_o out_o of_o any_o command_n from_o god_n but_o upon_o his_o private_a judgement_n and_o therefore_o it_o do_v not_o ground_n the_o doctrine_n of_o perfection_n in_o the_o observation_n of_o counsel_n above_o the_o law_n second_o as_o it_o be_v note_v this_o be_v not_o deliver_v to_o all_o promiscuous_o as_o the_o counsel_n be_v but_o to_o those_o who_o have_v the_o gift_n of_o continency_n as_o ver_fw-la 7._o which_o gift_n be_v not_o give_v to_o every_o one_o as_o faith_n hope_n and_o charity_n because_o this_o gift_n of_o continency_n be_v not_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n in_o the_o confession_n of_o our_o adversary_n as_o the_o other_o grace_n be_v but_o to_o perfection_n of_o state_n or_o state_n of_o perfection_n three_o this_o be_v not_o give_v absolute_o for_o time_n but_o with_o restriction_n of_o time_n as_o in_o the_o 26._o ver_fw-la 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d for_o the_o present_a necessity_n in_o the_o time_n of_o persecution_n and_o he_o say_v here_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d i_o suppose_v so_o that_o he_o speak_v not_o this_o by_o inspiration_n it_o seem_v four_o the_o matter_n of_o counsel_n be_v more_o difficult_a than_o that_o of_o ordinary_a obedience_n yes_o they_o will_v say_v for_o otherwise_o how_o shall_v they_o thereby_o supererogate_v and_o make_v the_o state_n of_o perfection_n and_o yet_o to_o serve_v god_n then_o in_o those_o time_n in_o the_o marry_a condition_n be_v more_o difficult_a as_o be_v under_o more_o temptation_n for_o their_o family_n five_o as_o to_o the_o 38._o ver_fw-la it_o be_v not_o necessary_a to_o construe_v well_o and_o better_a de_fw-fr bono_fw-mi morali_fw-la but_o de_fw-mi bono_fw-mi commodo_fw-la in_o respect_n to_o those_o time_n as_o goodness_n be_v ground_v in_o convenience_n so_o it_o be_v more_o good_a not_o to_o give_v in_o marriage_n for_o those_o time_n and_o here_o be_v all_o that_o text_n can_v afford_v he_o as_o for_o his_o syllogism_n therefore_o there_o be_v no_o great_a force_n in_o it_o according_a to_o you_o he_o be_v bind_v to_o do_v all_o that_o he_o can_v do_v but_o he_o can_v do_v better_o in_o not_o give_v she_o in_o marriage_n therefore_o according_a to_o you_o be_v he_o bind_v not_o to_o give_v she_o under_o pain_n of_o damnation_n ans_fw-fr as_o for_o the_o major_n it_o be_v not_o any_o other_o than_o the_o proposition_n of_o christ_n but_o my_o adversary_n shall_v have_v put_v in_o here_o what_o he_o put_v in_o the_o conclusion_n namely_o under_o pain_n of_o damnation_n and_o then_o it_o may_v have_v be_v deny_v for_o god_n accept_v that_o which_o be_v do_v in_o sincerity_n and_o true_a charity_n though_o it_o be_v not_o all_o that_o we_o can_v do_v let_v he_o or_o rhem_n than_o put_v those_o word_n into_o the_o major_a proposition_n and_o we_o can_v then_o deny_v it_o if_o not_o there_o be_v more_o in_o the_o conclusion_n than_o in_o the_o premise_n then_o to_o the_o minor_a we_o say_v first_o better_a be_v not_o necessary_a to_o be_v take_v absolute_o but_o with_o respect_n to_o those_o end_n which_o be_v speak_v of_o in_o the_o ch._n and_o therefore_o be_v it_o to_o be_v understand_v as_o be_v observe_v not_o comparative_o to_o the_o performance_n of_o command_n but_o comparative_o to_o the_o opposite_a to_o marriage_n as_o gerson_n be_v quote_v cum_fw-la consilia_fw-la dicuntur_fw-la esse_fw-la de_fw-fr meliort_fw-fr bono_fw-mi non_fw-fr fit_a comparatio_fw-la eorum_fw-la ad_fw-la praecepta_fw-la sed_fw-la ad_fw-la sva_fw-la contraria_fw-la and_o let_v i_o put_v they_o a_o case_n upon_o this_o point_n one_o in_o state_n of_o virginity_n be_v suppose_v to_o abound_v more_o with_o lustful_a desire_n which_o be_v opposite_a to_o internal_a chastity_n than_o one_o marry_v now_o which_o of_o these_o think_v they_o in_o this_o particular_a more_o perfect_a in_o the_o judgement_n of_o god_n that_o party_n which_o do_v not_o profess_v external_a chastity_n yet_o be_v in_o the_o mind_n more_o chaste_a or_o that_o party_n which_o do_v profess_v external_a chastity_n and_o be_v internal_o less_o chaste_a what_o will_v they_o say_v to_o this_o for_o this_o be_v casus_fw-la dabilis_fw-la they_o must_v say_v that_o the_o party_n profess_v virginity_n be_v more_o perfect_a but_o than_o it_o be_v not_o better_a to_o marry_v than_o to_o burn_v and_o then_o they_o contradict_v st._n paul_n in_o the_o former_a ch_n v._o 9_o then_o with_o the_o former_a text_n he_o confront_v that_o of_o our_o saviour_n which_o i_o produce_v against_o he_o st._n luke_n the_o 17.10_o so_o likewise_o when_o you_o have_v do_v all_o those_o thing_n that_o be_v command_v you_o say_v we_o be_v unprofitable_a servant_n we_o have_v do_v what_o we_o ought_v to_o do_v and_o here_o my_o adversary_n put_v in_o by_o way_n of_o distinction_n he_o say_v not_o which_o be_v only_o command_v by_o way_n of_o counsel_n and_o again_o he_o put_v in_o what_o we_o ought_v to_o do_v to_o wit_n by_o a_o express_a precept_n oblige_v under_o damnation_n and_o then_o he_o apply_v the_o former_a text_n in_o one_o sense_n this_o man_n who_o have_v not_o marry_v his_o daughter_n may_v true_o say_v i_o have_v do_v what_o i_o ought_v to_o do_v not_o out_o of_o strict_a obligation_n bind_v under_o pain_n of_o hell_n for_o i_o may_v have_v do_v well_o in_o do_v the_o contrary_a but_o what_o i_o ought_v to_o do_v out_o of_o most_o perfect_a charity_n ans_fw-fr pass_v by_o what_o we_o say_v to_o the_o former_a text_n simple_o we_o say_v to_o it_o as_o compare_v with_o this_o of_o christ_n that_o this_o text_n of_o christ_n do_v not_o well_o bear_v his_o distinction_n because_o the_o term_n speak_v altogether_o in_o contradistinction_n unto_o counsel_n it_o speak_v of_o do_v all_o that_o be_v command_v it_o speak_v of_o their_o be_v unprofitable_a servant_n it_o speak_v of_o do_v what_o they_o ought_v to_o do_v upon_o strict_a obligation_n for_o so_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d there_o bear_v due_a correspondence_n with_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d and_o this_o word_n signify_v a_o strict_a command_n second_o compare_v this_o text_n with_o the_o scope_n of_o it_o in_o the_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d which_o we_o have_v in_o the_o 7_o 8_o 9_o verse_n and_o as_o the_o servant_n attend_v the_o master_n in_o necessary_a service_n so_o also_o in_o the_o ten_o verse_n which_o be_v the_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d the_o creature_n be_v relate_v to_o god_n in_o necessary_a service_n of_o strict_a obedience_n and_o therefore_o he_o can_v here_o distinguish_v of_o what_o we_o ought_v to_o do_v upon_o strict_a obligation_n and_o what_o we_o ought_v to_o do_v out_o of_o most_o perfect_a charity_n three_o this_o distinction_n of_o they_o will_v destroy_v their_o doctrine_n of_o counsel_n because_o if_o counsel_n be_v ground_v in_o a_o duty_n of_o most_o perfect_a charity_n than_o nothing_o can_v be_v counsel_v which_o be_v not_o command_v because_o most_o perfect_a charity_n be_v under_o a_o command_n if_o most_o perfect_a charity_n be_v under_o a_o counsel_n than_o there_o may_v indeed_o be_v more_o say_v for_o counsel_n but_o since_o most_o perfect_a charity_n be_v under_o a_o command_n what_o ground_n be_v there_o for_o counsel_n when_o the_o root_n of_o they_o namely_o most_o perfect_a charity_n
move_v this_o question_n but_o somewhat_o else_o be_v annex_v which_o he_o say_v nothing_o to_o well_o to_o this_o he_o now_o answer_v first_o they_o can_v know_v this_o better_a than_o know_v true_a scripture_n from_o false_a for_o they_o can_v not_o do_v that_o but_o by_o know_v first_o the_o true_a tradition_n recommend_v the_o true_a scripture_n from_o the_o false_a tradition_n recommend_v the_o false_a ans_fw-fr first_o this_o have_v be_v often_o deny_v he_o that_o the_o ultimate_a resolution_n of_o faith_n in_o the_o true_a scripture_n be_v not_o tradition_n this_o may_v lead_v we_o to_o the_o gate_n of_o the_o temple_n but_o this_o do_v not_o open_a the_o door_n of_o faith_n 2._o that_o tradition_n which_o make_v a_o inducement_n be_v of_o the_o universal_a not_o roman_n church_n 3._o how_o shall_v we_o know_v true_a tradition_n but_o by_o the_o true_a church_n how_o shall_v we_o know_v the_o true_a church_n but_o by_o scripture_n therefore_o we_o must_v know_v the_o true_a tradition_n from_o the_o false_a by_o the_o scripture_n which_o contradict_v his_o method_n and_o he_o say_v they_o can_v do_v this_o as_o well_o or_o better_a than_o their_o forefather_n for_o many_o hundred_o of_o year_n yea_o for_o two_o thousand_o yea_o for_o twice_o two_o thousand_o year_n together_o answ_n first_o they_o see_v then_o their_o error_n in_o define_v faith_n so_o strict_o to_o be_v a_o infallible_a assent_n since_o they_o here_o stand_v upon_o a_o comparative_a certainty_n if_o so_o which_o amount_v not_o to_o the_o consistence_n of_o faith_n second_o he_o suppose_v that_o which_o be_v not_o to_o be_v suppose_v that_o their_o forefather_n be_v determine_v in_o their_o faith_n of_o the_o word_n of_o god_n by_o tradition_n even_o now_o or_o a_o little_a before_o he_o say_v tradition_n be_v establish_v to_o the_o jew_n by_o scripture_n now_o tradition_n be_v that_o which_o must_v discern_v and_o consequent_o establish_v scripture_n 3._o it_o appear_v that_o as_o scripture_n be_v more_o perfect_a than_o tradition_n because_o otherwise_o god_n have_v go_v the_o worst_a way_n namely_o from_o that_o which_o be_v more_o perfect_a to_o that_o which_o be_v less_o perfect_a namely_o from_o tradition_n to_o the_o write_n of_o his_o word_n but_o that_o which_o be_v less_o pefect_n can_v establish_v that_o which_o be_v more_o perfect_a therefore_o neither_o then_o nor_o now_o can_v scripture_n receive_v the_o blessing_n of_o establishment_n from_o that_o which_o be_v inferior_a 4._o in_o the_o time_n of_o the_o law_n there_o be_v no_o other_o church_n to_o vie_v with_o the_o jew_n about_o tradition_n and_o therefore_o they_o may_v be_v more_o certain_a of_o true_a tradition_n but_o now_o there_o be_v several_a national_a church_n which_o may_v pretend_v superiority_n of_o tradition_n or_o tradition_n of_o superiority_n as_o the_o roman_a do_v and_o therefore_o it_o be_v not_o so_o sure_a a_o way_n to_o fix_v our_o last_o foot_n upon_o tradition_n 5._o universal_a tradition_n of_o all_o time_n and_o place_n which_o only_o weigh_v in_o this_o cause_n be_v not_o in_o other_o thing_n for_o they_o nor_o in_o that_o canon_n supernumerary_n of_o they_o and_o therefore_o let_v they_o either_o retract_v the_o argument_n or_o take_v it_o yet_o he_o will_v be_v confident_a of_o two_o tradition_n whereof_o the_o efficacy_n be_v commend_v with_o perpetual_a profession_n and_o answerable_a practice_n daily_o occur_v baptism_n of_o infant_n and_o prayer_n for_o the_o faithful_a epart_v the_o first_o of_o these_o we_o have_v abundant_o examine_v before_o and_o he_o do_v here_o most_o insist_v upon_o the_o latter_a assign_v also_o his_o reason_n of_o more_o practice_n of_o this_o last_o because_o they_o baptize_v infant_n but_o once_o but_o they_o pray_v â—ften_o for_o the_o same_o man_n who_o be_v dead_a and_o then_o be_v more_o practise_v it_o be_v more_o confirm_v which_o cressie_n also_o urge_v ans_fw-fr as_o for_o paedobaptism_n here_o he_o do_v not_o prove_v it_o to_o be_v a_o tradition_n unless_o this_o be_v a_o true_a proposition_n that_o whatsoever_o be_v commend_v with_o perpetual_a profession_n and_o answerable_a practice_n daily_o accur_v be_v only_o deliver_v by_o tradition_n tradition_n be_v such_o but_o all_o that_o be_v such_o be_v not_o tradition_n therefore_o that_o proposition_n deny_v and_o for_o what_o he_o say_v towards_o both_o before_o that_o the_o apostle_n do_v only_o by_o unwritten_a tradition_n clear_o and_o undeniable_o teach_v the_o baptise_v of_o child_n and_o prayer_n for_o the_o faithful_a depart_v it_o be_v not_o clear_a that_o it_o be_v undeniable_a and_o therefore_o clear_o and_o undeniable_o it_o be_v deny_v baptism_n of_o infant_n have_v not_o yet_o lose_v sufficient_a ground_n in_o scripture_n to_o keep_v it_o from_o a_o necessity_n of_o be_v name_v tradition_n as_o he_o shall_v have_v show_v and_o as_o to_o the_o other_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a we_o answer_v first_o it_o seem_v then_o it_o be_v but_o a_o tradition_n and_o they_o will_v pradon_v we_o if_o we_o speak_v thus_o diminutive_o of_o it_o and_o whether_o this_o will_v please_v all_o the_o roman_a doctor_n that_o it_o shall_v have_v no_o foot_n in_o scripture_n let_v it_o be_v none_o of_o our_o care_n 2._o for_o the_o object_n of_o person_n who_o they_o pray_v for_o question_n will_v be_v make_v what_o moral_o they_o be_v who_o be_v to_o be_v pray_v for_o but_o this_o he_o tell_v we_o he_o say_v they_o be_v the_o faithful_a well_o but_o all_o the_o faithful_a i_o suppose_v it_o may_v be_v they_o will_v say_v yes_o if_o not_o let_v they_o give_v we_o a_o reason_n of_o their_o distinction_n according_a to_o tradition_n if_o so_o then_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a do_v not_o infer_v purgatory_n which_o they_o intend_v in_o the_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a and_o the_o reason_n of_o the_o consequence_n be_v prove_v because_o prayer_n be_v make_v for_o all_o the_o faithful_a and_o some_o of_o they_o go_v up_o to_o heaven_n per_fw-la saltum_fw-la as_o they_o will_v also_o confess_v namely_o apostle_n and_o martyr_n and_o yet_o these_o be_v also_o pray_v for_o in_o order_n to_o a_o joyful_a resurrection_n and_o indeed_o the_o ancient_a prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a do_v respect_v their_o body_n in_o the_o grave_n to_o be_v raise_v up_o at_o the_o resurrection_n not_o their_o soul_n to_o be_v raise_v out_o of_o purgatory_n after_o a_o plenary_a satisfaction_n and_o what_o mean_v st._n austin_n in_o tract_n in_o johannem_fw-la 49._o unus_fw-la cuique_fw-la cum_fw-la causa_fw-la sva_fw-la dormiet_fw-la &_o cum_fw-la causâ_fw-la suâ_fw-la resurget_fw-la and_o some_o of_o their_o own_o have_v late_o in_o this_o differ_v from_o they_o neither_o have_v the_o roman_a church_n with_o their_o infallibility_n persuade_v the_o greek_a church_n hereof_o in_o nilus_n time_n who_o have_v a_o learned_a discourse_n against_o it_o and_o three_o as_o for_o inscription_n upon_o the_o grave_n whereby_o he_o will_v make_v a_o prescription_n for_o the_o tradition_n we_o say_v two_o thing_n first_o that_o we_o must_v have_v they_o to_o be_v show_v to_o be_v so_o ancient_a as_o to_o have_v be_v universal_o use_v in_o the_o primitive_a time_n and_o then_o second_o that_o they_o be_v use_v upon_o the_o roman_a account_n and_o as_o for_o aerius_n who_o only_o as_o he_o say_v deny_v pray_v for_o the_o dead_a to_o be_v account_v for_o this_o his_o opinion_n a_o heretic_n by_o st._n austin_n and_o st._n epiphanius_n they_o must_v somewhat_o excuse_v we_o for_o this_o absolute_o be_v not_o right_a for_o their_o turn_n if_o true_a first_o not_o right_a for_o their_o use_n because_o he_o may_v deny_v prayer_n and_o oblation_n for_o the_o dead_a in_o the_o former_a respect_n namely_o for_o a_o joyful_a resurrection_n and_o this_o come_v not_o up_o to_o the_o state_n of_o the_o point_n wherein_o we_o differ_v namely_o whether_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a be_v a_o tradition_n in_o their_o sense_n as_o infer_v purgatory_n but_o 2._o neither_o be_v it_o absolute_o true_a that_o aerius_n be_v account_v a_o heretic_n for_o this_o opinion_n exclusive_o to_o other_o opinion_n of_o he_o as_o my_o adversary_n word_n import_v however_o he_o mean_v they_o i_o will_v pinch_v it_o either_o he_o mean_v for_o this_o opinion_n only_o or_o for_o this_o opinion_n with_o other_o opinion_n if_o for_o this_o opinion_n concurrent_o with_o other_o this_o derogate_v from_o the_o common_a sense_n of_o his_o word_n and_o from_o his_o use_n too_o because_o if_o he_o be_v account_v a_o heretic_n for_o several_a opinion_n it_o may_v be_v some_o of_o they_o be_v not_o heretical_a opinion_n and_o than_o it_o can_v be_v say_v that_o he_o be_v for_o every_o of_o they_o account_v a_o heretic_n unless_o we_o can_v make_v some_o to_o be_v heresy_n which_o be_v not_o heresy_n and_o this_o will_v be_v a_o contradiction_n well_o then_o i_o