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and_o against_o the_o practice_n and_o way_n of_o the_o reform_a church_n to_o the_o first_o reason_n i_o answer_v as_o the_o relate_n of_o the_o state_n of_o the_o question_n be_v not_o proper_a so_o this_o argument_n hint_v here_o be_v not_o proper_o express_v for_o their_o might_n be_v such_o a_o presbyterial_a church_n and_o government_n as_o be_v maintain_v against_o you_o namely_o but_o two_o or_o three_o distinct_a meet_v place_n and_o yet_o not_o church_n rise_v to_o such_o a_o numerous_a multiplication_n nor_o apostle_n stay_v to_o the_o set_n up_o of_o church_n until_o they_o rise_v to_o such_o a_o numerous_a multiplication_n but_o pray_v what_o do_v you_o mean_v by_o those_o expression_n we_o do_v not_o imagine_v but_o may_v you_o not_o or_o can_v you_o not_o have_v imagine_v it_o though_o you_o do_v not_o nor_o will_v not_o and_o what_o by_o this_o that_o the_o apostle_n shall_v stay_v the_o set_n up_o of_o any_o church_n at_o all_o until_o they_o rise_v to_o make_v such_o a_o numerous_a multiplication_n as_o may_v make_v such_o a_o presbyterial_a combination_n do_v you_o carry_v the_o word_n in_o reference_n only_o to_o that_o numerous_a multiplication_n or_o simple_o and_o positive_o that_o the_o apostle_n do_v not_o stay_v so_o long_o in_o any_o city_n as_o to_o set_v up_o any_o church_n at_o all_o now_o if_o you_o will_v have_v your_o word_n interpret_v in_o the_o first_o sense_n then_o judge_v how_o improper_a the_o speech_n and_o narration_n of_o your_o mind_n be_v for_o than_o it_o shall_v have_v go_v thus_o that_o the_o apostle_n shall_v stay_v the_o set_n up_o of_o so_o many_o church_n until_o they_o rise_v to_o such_o a_o numerous_a multiplication_n for_o the_o deny_v the_o set_n up_o of_o any_o church_n and_o at_o all_o agree_v not_o with_o the_o follow_a word_n until_o they_o rise_v to_o such_o a_o numerous_a multiplication_n the_o former_a be_v a_o diminutive_a nay_o a_o negative_a and_o can_v agree_v to_o such_o a_o augmentative_a as_o the_o latter_a beside_o your_o first_o word_n carry_v in_o reference_n to_o the_o follow_v have_v no_o strength_n to_o prove_v what_o you_o bring_v they_o for_o namely_o what_o you_o allow_v and_o practise_v or_o what_o you_o disallow_v for_o though_o the_o apostle_n shall_v not_o stay_v so_o long_o as_o the_o set_n up_o so_o many_o church_n as_o may_v arise_v to_o such_o a_o numerous_a multiplication_n of_o several_a and_o sundry_a congregation_n yet_o there_o may_v be_v such_o a_o presbyterial_a classical_a church_n a_o church_n consist_v of_o more_o than_o can_v meet_v in_o one_o place_n which_o be_v the_o controversy_n between_o we_o but_o if_o you_o understand_v your_o word_n simple_o and_o positive_o that_o the_o apostle_n do_v not_o stay_v the_o set_n up_o of_o any_o church_n at_o all_o i_o desire_v you_o to_o remember_v your_o own_o principle_n and_o expression_n in_o many_o book_n and_o discourse_n of_o your_o way_n that_o the_o apostle_n be_v the_o founder_n of_o the_o first_o church_n as_o at_o corinth_n rome_n and_o for_o jerusalem_n especial_o which_o be_v the_o particular_a church_n we_o most_o stand_v upon_o the_o apostle_n stay_v long_o enough_o there_o to_o set_v up_o not_o only_o any_o church_n at_o all_o but_o many_o to_o make_v such_o a_o presbyterial_a combination_n as_o be_v stand_v for_o as_o will_v appear_v both_o by_o act_n 8._o act_n 15._o act_n 21._o and_o it_o be_v the_o judgement_n of_o mr_n robinson_n that_o jerusalem_n be_v never_o without_o some_o of_o the_o apostle_n there_o which_o the_o two_o first_o chapter_n of_o the_o galatian_n give_v a_o strong_a ground_n for_o beside_o the_o many_o presbyter_n that_o belong_v thereunto_o and_o so_o for_o the_o church_n of_o ephesus_n paul_n stay_v at_o one_o time_n in_o those_o part_n three_o year_n together_o long_a enough_o to_o make_v so_o many_o church_n as_o may_v make_v a_o presbyterial_a combination_n which_o that_o of_o the_o act_n chap._n 20._o vers_fw-la 17_o 18_o 25_o 28_o 29_o 31._o do_v give_v hint_n enough_o for_o if_o the_o nature_n of_o a_o answer_n to_o a_o narration_n will_v permit_v to_o draw_v they_o out_o at_o length_n to_o the_o second_o reason_n hint_v that_o those_o precept_n obey_v your_o elder_n and_o they_o that_o be_v over_o you_o be_v to_o be_v sure_o mean_v of_o the_o pastor_n and_o teacher_n set_v over_o they_o in_o each_o particular_a congregation_n respective_o and_o to_o be_v as_o certain_o the_o intendment_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n as_o in_o those_o command_n wife_n obey_v your_o own_o husband_n etc._n etc._n i_o answer_v that_o in_o scripture_n a_o particular_a church_n consist_v of_o more_o congregation_n than_o one_o and_o the_o minister_n and_o elder_n feed_v they_o and_o govern_v they_o in_o common_a as_o at_o jerusalem_n and_o as_o it_o be_v in_o the_o low_a country_n in_o city_n there_o as_o at_o amsterdam_n etc._n etc._n all_o the_o minister_n and_o elder_n be_v their_o own_o minister_n and_o elder_n as_o the_o husband_n 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those_o congregation_n in_o all_o weighty_a matter_n and_o great_a case_n that_o fall_v out_o those_o precept_n of_o obey_v your_o elder_n and_o they_o that_o be_v over_o you_o reach_v to_o all_o the_o elder_n as_o well_o as_o to_o those_o that_o particular_o and_o ordinary_o preach_v to_o they_o and_o however_o it_o be_v true_a such_o place_n be_v especial_o understand_v of_o they_o yet_o not_o of_o they_o only_o and_o alone_o as_o exclude_v other_o as_o your_o argument_n carry_v it_o but_z including_z other_o who_o be_v over_o they_o too_o and_o to_o answer_v you_o by_o your_o own_o instance_n give_v of_o servant_n obey_v your_o own_o governor_n as_o by_o virtue_n of_o that_o text_n particular_a servant_n be_v to_o obey_v their_o own_o master_n so_o by_o the_o same_o text_n each_o particular_a servant_n and_o all_o of_o they_o together_o of_o such_o a_o company_n and_o hall_n in_o the_o thing_n and_o rule_n of_o their_o call_n for_o the_o public_a good_a of_o that_o society_n they_o be_v to_o obey_v and_o be_v subject_a to_o the_o whole_a company_n namely_o the_o particular_a master_n of_o other_o servant_n as_o to_o their_o own_o master_n yea_o and_o to_o submit_v to_o the_o common_a order_n and_o good_a rule_n of_o such_o a_o hall_n and_o corporation_n though_o their_o particular_a master_n do_v not_o vote_n for_o but_o against_o they_o 3._o those_o ruler_n who_o be_v of_o the_o presbytery_n be_v not_o foreign_a nor_o extrinsicall_a to_o the_o congregation_n but_o intrinsicall_a and_o natural_a as_o well_o as_o their_o particular_a elder_n so_o that_o another_o without_o themselves_o do_v not_o bear_v rule_n over_o they_o but_o all_o of_o they_o together_o by_o common_a consent_n do_v rule_v every_o one_o which_o be_v a_o most_o mild_a and_o free_a form_n of_o church_n government_n for_o the_o proof_n of_o which_o i_o shall_v not_o enlarge_v but_o refer_v you_o for_o satisfaction_n to_o what_o be_v say_v to_o this_o point_n both_o by_o the_o commissioner_n of_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n and_o by_o some_o church_n from_o beyond_o the_o 25._o sea_n in_o their_o letter_n upon_o occasion_n of_o your_o apology_n 4._o it_o be_v a_o fallacious_a way_n of_o reason_v from_o the_o economical_a relation_n and_o government_n of_o husband_n over_o wife_n and_o father_n over_o child_n and_o master_n over_o servant_n and_o their_o subjection_n and_o obedience_n to_o husband_n etc._n etc._n unto_o the_o ecclesiastical_a and_o political_a because_o it_o be_v not_o to_o speak_v ad_fw-la idem_fw-la for_o in_o each_o of_o these_o the_o way_n of_o government_n be_v different_a for_o instance_n in_o those_o economical_a relation_n a_o woman_n can_v have_v but_o one_o husband_n one_o man_n can_v be_v but_o her_o husband_n and_o one_o man_n a_o father_n and_o the_o wife_n and_o child_n can_v pelinquish_v they_o diâ—…avow_v they_o though_o very_o bad_a nor_o deny_v those_o duty_n they_o owe_v they_o in_o those_o relation_n though_o censure_v by_o the_o church_n but_o they_o be_v to_o obey_v they_o which_o yet_o hold_v not_o in_o the_o member_n of_o a_o particular_a congregation_n to_o elder_n and_o minister_n that_o be_v unworthy_a and_o excommunicate_v that_o the_o member_n must_v be_v subject_a to_o they_o the_o royalist_n that_o argue_v so_o from_o that_o subjection_n and_o obedience_n which_o child_n owe_v their_o father_n to_o subject_n subjection_n and_o obedience_n to_o prince_n and_o the_o hierarchicall_a man_n that_o argue_v from_o what_o child_n owe_v to_o natural_a parent_n though_o wicked_a and_o ungodly_a to_o what_o the_o people_n owe_v to_o wicked_a minister_n be_v answer_v at_o large_a and_o you_o know_v what_o mr_n robinson_n and_o many_o of_o your_o way_n say_v to_o that_o now_o the_o same_o will_v serve_v to_o answer_v your_o comparison_n that_o the_o place_n hold_v not_o alike_o between_o the_o people_n and_o the_o elder_n and_o the_o wife_n and_o their_o husband_n mr_n baynes_n answer_v in_o the_o last_o page_n of_o his_o diocesan_n trial_n that_o which_o be_v object_v touch_v pastor_n and_o father_n that_o the_o similitude_n hold_v not_o in_o all_o thing_n parent_n and_o shepherd_n be_v absolute_o parent_n and_o shepherd_n be_v they_o good_a or_o evil_a but_o spiritual_a parent_n be_v no_o long_o so_o than_o they_o do_v according_o behave_v themselves_o 5._o the_o very_a instance_n you_o give_v of_o wife_n obey_v your_o own_o husband_n and_o servant_n your_o own_o governor_n do_v not_o therefore_o only_o tie_v they_o to_o civil_a subjection_n and_o obedience_n to_o husband_n and_o master_n exempt_n they_o from_o subjection_n to_o any_o other_o but_o they_o be_v subject_a to_o the_o magistrate_n in_o the_o commonwealth_n and_o to_o common-lawe_n notwithstanding_o so_o neither_o do_v the_o scripture_n obey_v your_o elder_n etc._n etc._n suppose_v the_o full_a latitude_n of_o those_o scripture_n be_v of_o the_o elder_n of_o particular_a congregation_n forbid_v or_o exempt_a man_n from_o that_o ecclesiastical_a subjection_n and_o obedience_n which_o concern_v they_o as_o they_o stand_v in_o relation_n to_o the_o community_n to_o the_o three_o reason_n hint_v for_o yourselves_o and_o against_o the_o reform_a church_n that_o the_o elder_n of_o other_o congregation_n shall_v have_v power_n and_o rule_v over_o church_n which_o they_o do_v not_o teach_v and_o feed_v ordinary_o by_o virtue_n of_o those_o forementioned_a precept_n be_v to_o you_o a_o question_n etc._n etc._n i_o answer_v suppose_v three_o or_o four_o congregation_n in_o one_o great_a town_n shall_v have_v minister_n in_o common_a to_o teach_v and_o feed_v they_o ordinary_o as_o in_o holland_n will_v you_o in_o such_o a_o case_n yield_v to_o a_o presbyterial_a combination_n if_o you_o say_v you_o will_v than_o the_o case_n be_v determine_v for_o we_o and_o thus_o i_o judge_v it_o be_v in_o the_o act_n of_o the_o apostle_n in_o primitive_a church_n but_o if_o you_o answer_v you_o will_v not_o yield_v to_o such_o a_o classical_a government_n than_o i_o reply_v it_o be_v not_o for_o want_v of_o such_o minister_n teach_v you_o and_o feed_v ordinary_o that_o you_o will_v not_o obey_v but_o upon_o some_o other_o ground_n and_o then_o this_o argument_n be_v lose_v second_o i_o answer_v your_o roll_a elder_n do_v not_o feed_v nor_o teach_v you_o ordinary_o but_o only_o govern_v you_o and_o yet_o by_o virtue_n of_o those_o forementioned_a precept_n you_o obey_v they_o and_o be_v subject_a to_o they_o so_o that_o this_o be_v no_o good_a argument_n against_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o have_v power_n and_o authority_n over_o those_o who_o man_n teach_v not_o ordinary_o for_o than_o what_o become_v of_o the_o rule_v elder_n in_o the_o church_n who_o be_v neither_o pastor_n nor_o teacher_n to_o the_o four_o reason_n draw_v from_o corporation_n who_o have_v the_o power_n and_o privilege_n of_o life_n and_o death_n within_o themselves_o which_o kind_n of_o power_n you_o will_v have_v i_o answer_v you_o can_v frame_v a_o good_a argunment_n from_o corporation_n and_o civil_a power_n to_o body_n ecclesiastical_a and_o spiritual_a power_n and_o i_o may_v give_v you_o the_o many_o difference_n allege_v by_o yourselves_o between_o civil_a power_n and_o ecclesiastical_a and_o the_o different_a manner_n of_o dispensation_n but_o i_o must_v not_o enlarge_v here_o only_o refer_v you_o for_o this_o to_o separat_fw-la mr_n robinson_n church_n mr_n burrough_n and_o theol._n dr_n ames_n 2._o corporation_n go_v according_a to_o the_o law_n of_o the_o land_n and_o to_o their_o charter_n agree_v upon_o and_o make_v in_o parliament_n they_o make_v not_o themselves_o a_o corporation_n nor_o go_v not_o according_a to_o private_a rule_n and_o order_n to_o pass_v sentence_n of_o death_n etc._n etc._n but_o be_v rule_v though_o they_o have_v officer_n as_o major_a and_o alderman_n by_o the_o law_n of_o the_o land_n and_o so_o go_v they_o may_v more_o safe_o have_v a_o power_n within_o themselves_o but_o your_o 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apostle_n show_v full_o
and_o this_o serve_v for_o scripture_n ground_n to_o they_o now_o then_o for_o the_o manner_n of_o order_v of_o this_o according_a to_o different_a kingdom_n nation_n or_o city_n in_o few_o or_o more_o subordination_n and_o in_o the_o way_n and_o manner_n of_o proceed_n by_o several_a church_n according_a to_o local_a temporal_a and_o personal_a circumstance_n they_o know_v well_o they_o must_v go_v according_a to_o general_a rule_n of_o the_o word_n to_o the_o common_a law_n of_o nature_n and_o prudence_n and_o so_o they_o leave_v other_o church_n to_o do_v the_o like_a and_o have_v we_o be_v lead_v in_o our_o former_a way_n and_o our_o removal_n apolog._n out_o of_o this_o kingdom_n by_o any_o such_o spirit_n of_o faction_n and_o division_n or_o of_o pride_n and_o singularity_n which_o be_v the_o usual_a ground_n of_o all_o schism_n we_o have_v since_o our_o return_n again_o during_o this_o intermisticall_a season_n tentation_n yea_o provocation_n enough_o to_o have_v draw_v forth_o 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