gratiae majorisque authoritatis quam Ecclesia quae nunc est Driedo de Eccles dogm l. 4. c. 4. Because the Primitive Church by reason of the college of the Apostles had more grace and more authoritie then the Church which now is but be it spoken of the Church that now is as long as the Church heareth Christ and delivereth nothing but his embassage hearing her we heare Christ but if once she speake of her owne head and goe beyond beside or contrary to her commission if wee heare her wee heare not Christ Did the Iewes heare Christ when they heard Iudas with his Quid dabitis If our teachers become Arians Nestorians or Pelagians must wee heare them No If it be Paul himselfe more If it bee an Å¿ Gal. 1. 8. Angell from heaven shall teach other doctrine then is contayned in the Scriptures let him be accursed Hee is rather to bee accursed and accounted as an Reply pag. 117 * Matt. 18. 17. Insidell who wilfully refuseth to hearken to the Church In that Text our Saviour speaketh not of matters of faith but of fact as of the meanes of ending strife betweene party and party And as it is in inferiour Courts they may heare and judge some things as Batteryes Blood-sheddes and the like but may not judge of Felony Treason and the like So it is with the Church shee may heare and determine in matters of fact as to compose strife and he that will not in such a case hearken unto her let him be no better then an Infidell but if she take too much upon her as that God must say whatsoever she saith that all her wordes are Gospell * pag. 124. as sure as S. Iohns Gospell and if she dare adde unwritten Traditions to Gods written Law the point of greatest consequence and the cheifest Article of the Romane faith she extendeth her authority beyond her power and in such a case none but wittalls will listen unto her But the Church is * 1. Tim. 3. 5. it is vers 15. the foundation Reply pag. 117. pillar of truth To speake properly t 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Chrys in 1â— Tim. hom 11. Truth is the foundation and pillar of the Church as S. Chrysostome saith And the Replyer oft a lyer now telleth truth This title doth properly belong unto God himselfe Then it is improperly given unto the Church but the question is in what respect whether in regard of her nature or of her dutie In regard of her nature saith the Iesuite Because shee is indued from above with the Spirit of truth which never faileth to teach her all truth I may safely grant this yet deny unwritten verities because they are not truth but very lyes never received from the spirit of truth nor taught by the Church unto her followers This title is given unto the Church rather in regard of her dutie for as the Magistrate is said to be u Rom. 13. 3. A terror not to the good but to the evill Not because he is alwayes so but because he ought to be so so this title is given to the Church not in regard of her infallible nature which never faileth but in regard of her office and dutie which is to upholde the truth and to preserve the truth in which she may sometimes faile The Apostle calleth the Church of Ephesus where hee left x 1. Tim. 1. 36 Timothy and where Timothy was resident when S. Paul wrote unto him the ground and pillar of truth yet that which S. Paul y Act. 20. 19 feared is come unto it it is not now the pillar of truth but is fallen froÌ„ the truth So is the Church of Rome fallen from the truth into many errors of which this doctrine of unwritten Traditions is not the least 2. Thus much I have well considered and the more I consider I see the more dunsery and the lesse divinitie In his ensuing observations he laboureth to tread downe the authority of Scripture even as in his precedent observations hee laboured to make the authority of the Church to mount up unto heaven The first is this Christ never Reply p. 117. wrete any his doctrine himselfe As he spake by the mouth of all his Prophets and Apostles so he wrote by their hands S. Pauls Epistle written by z Rom. 16. 22. Tertius unto the Romans is accounted part of Pauls writings aswell as the Epistle to Philemon which was written with a Vers 19. his owne hands so the Scripture may bee said to be written by Christ being written by the Apostles and Prophets who were his hands S. Augustine will teach him to speake b Nequaquam dicendum est quod Christus non scripserit quandoquidem memora ejus id operata sunt quod dictante capite cognoverunt quicquid enim ille de dictis sactis suis nos le gere voluit hoc scribendum illis tanquam suis manibus imperavit Aug. de consens Evang l. 1. c. ult Say not by any meanes that Christ hath not written because his hands wrote that which the head did dictate unto them and whatsoâ—ver he would have us to reade touching his words or workes that he commanded them to write as it were with his owne hands c Haee ille doctè eleganter c. Tanto magis dicen dum est Christum scripsesse per Iuangelicrum Scriptores ut per manus suas quanto illi ne verbum unum aut iotâ— unum de suo spiritu Evangelio addiderunt Saâ—mer Proleg 26. Tom. 1. These things saith Salmeron S. Augustine spake learnedly and eloquently And he addeth this reason By so much the rather we must say that Christ himselfe wrote by the writers of the Gospell as by his owne hands in as much as they added not one word it selfe nor the least letter of â—heir owne to the Gospell Gregorie de Valentia saith d Planâ— instar calami cum usurpatur à Scriptore quo illud Davidis spectat lingua mea calamus scribae velociter scribentis nec enim alium hoc loco scribam significat praeter ipsum Deum Greg. de Val. Annal. fid l. 8. c. 5. They wrote even as the pen which the writer useth unto which David alludeth Psal 45. 2. my tongue is the penne of a ready writer he meaneth here no other writer but God Neither is it any thing materiall whether we say Christ wrote it himselfe or the Apostles wrote it as long as we are sure they had Christs commandement for the writing of it But this the Iesuite denyeth Wee doe not reade that ever he gave commandement to his Disciples to commit any part thereof unto writing S. Iohn was eleven times e Revel c. 1. 11. 19. c. 2. 1. 8. 1â— c. 3. 1. 7. 14. c 14. 13 c. 19. 9. c. 21. 5. coÌ„manded to write Is the Revelation of Iesus Christ no part of his doctrine f Aug. de
present themselves Folly is so â—eâ—pely rooted in him that though he were brayed in a morter his foolishnesse will not depart from him As for bâ—aggs they are essentiall to him and therefore confute him never so evidently by the Scriptures and by the Fathers yet a man may aswell make a scould lâ—ave rayling as make him leave his bragging I will not actum agere answere that againe which hath beene already three or foure times answered yet that the Reader may see that I have not lefâ— one testimonie it selfe unanswered the margine * Ignatius sect 2. the lasâ— testimonâ— Terâ—ul sect 6. Divis â— Eureb sect 6. Divil 12. doth direct him where hee shall finde these testimonies taken out of Ignaâ—ius Tertullian Eusebius Epiphanius Basil Chrysostome and Augustine already answered Epiph. sect 2. Divis 11. Basil sect 6. Divis 10. Chrys sect 3. Divil 2. August sect 4â— Divis 8. The pleading is ended and the verdict is given against you conclusum est in causâ all your witnesses come too late and your testimonies a day after the fayre but because we are willing to give you a full hearing you shall have your witnesses examined The Fathers of the Councell of Gangers doe pleade our cause as if they had beene fie'd to that end * Conc. Gang. can ult We desire that all Reply p. 164. things delivered by the Scriptures and Ecclesiasticall Traditions by Apostolicall Traditions it is in the Greeke be observed in the Church 2. The Eustathians against whom this Councell proceeded erred both in point of Doctrine and in Ceremonies in doctrine absolutely condemning the Christian duty of fasting and the honourable state of marriage in all men in ceremonies they allowed not the received kinde of apparel but would have a strange kinde brought into the Church Against the first their errors in doctrine these Fathers pleaded the Scripture against the latter their error in Ceremonies they alleadged the Tradition of the Apostles And therefore desired that All things should be observed in the Church which were delivered by the Scriptures and by Apostolicall Tradition You have need to fee these Fathers again for this which they have pleaded is nothing for you Some Protestants tell us that in these sayings the Fathers Reply pag. 165 doe not speake of points belonging unto faith 3. It seemeth you answer without taking out the copie of our Answer What we have answered we have will ever make it good that in many places where the Fathers speake only of rituall Traditions you alleadge them as patrons of doctrinall Traditions unwritten Wee say not in all those places they speake not of points of faith in some they doe in some places they doe not And here againe he bringeth in the same witnesses to bee reexamined as Basil concerning the worshipping of the Holy Ghost Augustine for rebaptization Tertullian touching prayer for the dead Epiphanius about single lift Chrysostome Augustine and Epiphanius about prayer for the dead those points saith he they accounted necessary and unwritten Traditions S. Basil being duely sworne testifieth this that the worship which is due unto the holy Ghost is taught in Scripture but for the use of this syllable Cum in this forme of words Glory be to the Father and to the Sonne cum spiritu sancto with the holy Ghost this forme of words hee confesseth is not written but that it may be defended by Tradition S. Augustine confesseth the same concerning the point of Rebaptization that although this forme of words Those that returne from the Heretickes shall not bee rebaptiâ—ed be not written yet from most certaine grounds of Scripture he concludeth the same And no Protestant saith this is not an article of faith Tertullian is onely an advocate for Rituall Traditions unwritten And the anniversary oblation or yearely prayer for the dead at such and such times is not to be reckoned among the points of faith but among the Customes or ordinances of the Church Epiphanius saith that the obligation to abstaine from marriage is such in those that have so vowed that it is a finne to marry after single lifâ— is vowed The Popish practise declareth it to be no sinne else how could a Cromer de rebus Polon lib. 4. Benedict the 9th dispense with Casimirus the heyre of Polonia to marry after his vow It is the Popes dispensation which is above law which maketh it lawfull This is a case of Conscience as we hold which may be determined though it be not expressely written by sure and certaine principles of the Scripture in this manner If the vow be solemnely made and the party by any meanes be able to keepe it it is unlawfull to marry although the Pope would dispense with it but if not we say with Epiphanius b Epiph. haer 61 It is better to marry after the vow at length to returne home to the Church though he be laâ—e then alwayes to be wounded with inward darts And wherein doth this differ from the Scriptures conclusion c 1. Cor. 7. 9. It is better to marry then to burne S. Chrysostomes saying that the Apostles have not delivered all things by writing cannot prove that they did not deliver all their doctrines or all necessary things by writing because all things which the Apostles delivered were not doctrines nor things necessary And yet the Iesuite to helpe his lame dogge over the stile corruptly readeth S. Chrysostomes words in stead of All things he readeth All their doctrine saying the Apostles have not delivered all their doctrine by writing Epiphanius and Augustine are in the like manner to bee answered they say the Apostles delivered many things without writing Hence the Iesuite inferreth that they delivered many points of faith or doctrines of salvation without writing I may aswell inferre the Iesuite is an animal ergo an asse But Chrysostome Augustine and Epiphanius saith he tell us in particular that the Custome of the Church in praying for the dead is a Tradition given by the Apostles unto the Church without writing If it bee a Tradition given without writing how then can you make good this part of your Challenge For the confirmation of all the points of our Religion of which prayer for the dead is one I will produce good and certaine grounds out of the holy Scriptures if the Fathers authority will not suffice If you can bring no Scripture for this point then you must eat these words if you doe produce Scripture then it was not given without writing Qui benè distinguit benè docet here wee must needs distinguish the point it selfe of praying for the dead from the Custome of the Church in praying for them at set times this custome we must distinguish from the reasons of it as they are given by these three Fathers their reasons we must distinguish from the reasons given by our Adversaries The point it selfe how we may pray for them is grounded on d 2. Tim. 1. 1â—
Scripture and in the Fathers And the generall sense of Traditio with the Latines of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with the Greeke of Cabbala or Masoreth with the Hebrewes is the same namely a Delivery or any thing delivered aswell by l â— Thâ—â— â— 15. Epistle as by word of mouth The word Tradition is taken aswell for the manner of delivery which is Traditio activa as for the matter delivered which is Traditio passiva And therefore lest the Iesuite who is well skill'd in the practise of equivocation should equivocate with the word Tradition and so prove Quid pro Quo the manner of deliverie for the matter delivered the Answere sheweth him That wee admit modum tradendi the Answer manner of delivery Wee willingly acknowledge that the word of God which by some of the Apostles was set downe in writing was both by themselves and others of their fellow-labourers delivered by word of mouth and that the Church in succeeding ages was bound not onely to preserve those sacred writings coÌ„mitted to her trust but also to deliver unto her children vivâ voce the forme of wholesome words contained therin Here he might have seene that we admit modum tradâ—ndi the manner of delivery both by the Apostles and by the Church 1. We beleive the preaching of the Apostles to be the undoubted word of God aswell as their writing so that it is m Ridiculum est quod nemini est dubium probare Mare Tul pro Quint. a ridiculous thing in the Iesuite to prove that which no man doubteth He alledgeth the Fathers as * Iren. pag. 118 Irenaeus * Euscb pag. 120. Eusebius many more to prove that the Apostles preached before they wrote that their preaching is to be beleived was effectual to save soulâ—s aswell as their writing In this he shrinketh from the Question which is not whether the Apostles preached before they wrote whether their preaching is to be beleived but thâ—â— he should frame the QuestioÌ„ whether the Apostles in their preaching delivered such points of faith or doctrines of salvation as are not contained in the Scriptures 2. As the preaching of the Apostles is called a Tradition so is their delivery of the Scriptures of divers doctrines contained in them called a Tradition being delivered unto the Church by writing n Traditum est nobis quod sit unus Deus una spes una sides c. August de baptism l. 5. c. â—6 It is dell vered unto us saith S. August in that there is one God one hope one faith c. As this kinde of Tradition commeth not within the compasse of this controversie so these Fathers * Irenaeus pag. 125. Irâ—naus * Euseb pag. 109. 120 Eusebius and sundry others are impertinently produced by the Iesuites who ascribe the word Tradition unto Scripture and unto written Doctrines In this the Iesuite shrinketh againe from the Question which is not whether the Scripture may be called a Traâ—â—tion but whether all things necessary for our salvation be written in this Tradition Unto these two I may adde a third kinde of active Tradition that is the delivery by action or conversation which I may call a Practicall Tradition S. Chrysostome expounding these words b 2. Thess 3. 6. Withdraw your selves from every brother that walketh disorderly and not after the Tradition which he received of no. giveth this sense of them p 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Chrysost in 2. Thes c. 3. He meaneth the Tradition which is according unto workes This kind of Tradition belongeth not to our purpose and to little purpose doth the Iesuite bring in * Iuseb pag. 162. Eusebius who calleth the practise of the Apostles a Tradition In this againe the Iesuite shrinketh from the Question which is not whether the practise of the Apostles may be called a Tradition but whether in their practise of Piety they observed any holy duties necessary for our salvation which are not contained in the Scriptures either expressely or by consequence We likewise admit the active Tradition of the Church as 1. Her preserving and delivery of the written word unto her children in succeeding ages not as the meanes whereby the Scripture is made canonical yet as one good meanes though not as the onely meanes whereby a man may bee perswaded that it is canonicall And the graunting of this is a sufficient answer to a deale of confused stuffe alledged by the Iesuite in his 4. Section 2. Her delivery vivâ voce of the forme of wholesome words and of such Doctrines as are either expressely contained in the Scriptures or by sound inference may be deduced from them S. q Basil de Fide Basil was sparing to use such words as are not contained in Scripture but the Pontificall Romanists spare not to bring in such doctrines as are not contained in it For words we say with Hilarie words r Nomen nihâ—â— habeteriminiâ— quod non perturbat sensum religionis Hilar de Synod cont Arian are not to be blamed which disturbe not the sense of Religion All things are not delivered 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 verbatim in the Scriptures I reade not the words Essence Persons Vnbegotten Coessentiall yet we doe lawfully use them All Doctrines are not formally laide downe in them the Apostles Creed is not totidem verbis written in them yet they containe grounds principles by which all doctrines may be tryed and from which all divine conclusions may be drawne And those conclusions which by sound inference are gathered out of the Scriptures by the opinion of Å¿ Greg Nazian l. 5. de Theolog Gregorie Nazian are all one with the Scripture And to this t Stapleton relect fidei controv 5. q. 5. ar 1 Stapleton consenteth By this kinde of Tradition wee are taught many points of saith as these Fathers prove which the Iesuite alledgeth abundantly and impertinently By * Athanas pag. 140. Athanasius and * Epiph pag. 145. Epiphanius That the Father is unbegotten By * Athanas pag. 140. Athanasius and * August pag. 155. Augustine That the Son is consubstantiall with the Father By * Basil pag. 150. Basil and * Aug. pag. 119 Augustine That the holy Ghost is to be adored By * Origen pag. 126. Origen and * August pag. 118. 119. 126 Augustine That Children must be baptized By Augustine That the baptised by Heretickes must not be rebaptised He alone is alledged for this point but yet for want of company he is so * Augustin pag. 116. 116. 146. 148. Ideâ—â— pag. 118. 147 Idem pag. 119. 148. pag. 11â— oft brought in still singing the same song that the musick must needes be tedious to the hearer and the quotations troublesome to the reader The Iesuite againe shrinketh from the state of the Question in alledging these Fathers as Patrons of a Tradition which we defend The Question