Selected quad for the lemma: ground_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
ground_n	apostle_n	believe_v	faith_n	1,843	5	5.6906	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A95338	Truths conflict with error. Or, Universall redemption controverted, in three publike disputations. The first between M. John Goodwin, and M. Vavasour Powell, in Coleman-street London. The other two between M. John Goodwin, and M. John Simpson, at Alhallowes the great in Thames-street: in the presence of divers ministers of the City of London, and thousands of others.	Goodwin, John, 1594?-1665.; Weekes, John.; Powell, Vavasor, 1617-1670.; Simpson, John, 17th cent.	1650 (1650)	Wing T3167B; Thomason E597_2; ESTC R202232	95,080	122

the_o right_a determination_n whereof_o depend_v the_o whole_a glory_n of_o the_o grace_n of_o god_n and_o the_o whole_a comfort_n and_o salvation_n of_o mankind_n the_o whole_a glory_n of_o the_o grace_n of_o god_n depend_v upon_o it_o for_o if_o so_o be_v there_o be_v such_o a_o universal_a redemption_n of_o every_o particular_a man_n in_o the_o world_n and_o upon_o those_o term_n that_o it_o be_v hang_v open_a in_o the_o air_n catch_v that_o catch_n will_v and_o none_o be_v more_o in_o the_o eye_n of_o god_n than_o other_o in_o the_o death_n of_o his_o son_n true_o instead_o of_o maintain_v universal_a grace_n you_o maintain_v no_o grace_n at_o all_o m._n goodwin_n one_o discourse_n in_o this_o kind_n will_v but_o beget_v another_o but_o i_o shall_v prove_v god_n will_v both_o to_o yourself_o and_o other_o that_o your_o sense_n and_o opinion_n in_o restrain_v the_o death_n of_o christ_n for_o such_o and_o such_o particular_a person_n do_v whole_o dissolve_v and_o eclipse_v the_o grace_n of_o god_n and_o that_o there_o be_v no_o other_o way_n to_o set_v it_o forth_o like_a unto_o itself_o or_o worthy_a of_o god_n but_o only_o according_a to_o such_o a_o assertion_n that_o god_n do_v intend_v the_o salvation_n of_o all_o by_o the_o death_n of_o christ_n and_o that_o the_o comfort_n of_o all_o man_n and_o every_o particular_a man_n do_v depend_v upon_o it_o and_o if_o man_n will_v but_o reason_n like_o man_n or_o according_a to_o the_o scripture_n it_o be_v impossible_a that_o there_o shall_v be_v any_o ground_n of_o consolation_n upon_o any_o other_o account_n m._n simpson_n we_o have_v be_v long_o about_o this_o something_o i_o conceive_v have_v be_v speak_v for_o edification_n but_o if_o m._n goodwin_n will_v oppose_v or_o answer_v i_o will_v still_o provide_v those_o that_o shall_v oppose_v or_o answer_v he_o only_o this_o i_o desire_v that_o this_o order_n may_v be_v observe_v for_o the_o future_a that_o the_o moderator_n who_o shall_v be_v pitch_v upon_o may_v not_o speak_v any_o thing_n to_o discover_v his_o own_o judgement_n only_o to_o keep_v they_o to_o the_o question_n and_o to_o see_v the_o proposition_n prove_v that_o be_v deny_v and_o second_o i_o desire_v that_o no_o man_n may_v be_v suffer_v to_o speak_v a_o word_n but_o he_o that_o do_v oppose_v and_o he_o that_o do_v answer_v and_o if_o these_o rule_n be_v observe_v some_o good_a may_v come_v of_o it_o m._n goodwin_n i_o think_v there_o shall_v be_v a_o second_o allow_v on_o both_o side_n m._n powell_n i_o shall_v make_v bold_a to_o speak_v one_o word_n for_o my_o part_n i_o bless_v god_n that_o our_o meeting_n have_v be_v as_o it_o have_v that_o there_o have_v be_v no_o more_o contention_n or_o division_n among_o we_o and_o i_o refer_v what_o have_v be_v controvert_v to_o the_o congregation_n and_o desire_v they_o to_o judge_v of_o it_o and_o if_o m._n goodwin_n will_v engage_v further_o at_o another_o time_n there_o will_v be_v some_o to_o oppose_v he_o m._n simpson_n i_o will_v never_o undertake_v to_o dispute_v unless_o every_o man_n shall_v be_v command_v silence_n but_o the_o two_o disputant_n and_o the_o moderator_n to_o keep_v we_o to_o the_o question_n and_o m._n goodwin_n have_v at_o this_o time_n press_v his_o argument_n if_o now_o he_o will_v answer_v to_o the_o question_n there_o shall_v be_v some_o ready_a still_o to_o oppose_v m._n goodwin_n though_o i_o conceive_v the_o law_n of_o dispute_n in_o this_o kind_n will_v somewhat_o suffer_v by_o the_o observation_n of_o those_o rule_n yet_o if_o the_o truth_n will_v not_o be_v entertain_v nor_o the_o dispute_v carry_v on_o but_o upon_o that_o motion_n i_o shall_v stand_v to_o it_o the_o second_o disputation_n betwixt_o mr._n john_n goodwin_n and_o mr._n john_n simpson_n at_o all_o hallow_v the_o great_a in_o thames-street_n london_n january_n 14._o 1649._o m._n ames_n m._n griffeth_n moderator_n after_o the_o orderly_a disposal_n of_o themselves_o for_o the_o best_a advantage_n to_o the_o hearer_n mr._n goodwin_n in_o the_o gallery_n and_o mr._n simpson_n in_o the_o pulpit_n it_o begin_v thus_o m._n simpson_n sir_n if_o you_o please_v i_o shall_v speak_v only_o one_o word_n to_o the_o people_n in_o reference_n to_o our_o present_a meeting_n and_o then_o we_o will_v choose_v a_o moderator_n and_o desire_v he_o to_o speak_v a_o word_n for_o we_o to_o the_o lord_n i_o have_v only_o one_o short_a word_n to_o say_v which_o be_v to_o inform_v you_o that_o the_o business_n about_o which_o we_o be_v meet_v at_o this_o time_n it_o be_v as_o i_o conceive_v a_o ordinance_n of_o god_n we_o read_v in_o the_o 9_o of_o the_o act_n that_o paul_n dispute_v with_o the_o grecian_n and_o in_o the_o 17._o of_o the_o act_n that_o he_o dispute_v with_o the_o jew_n grecian_n and_o philosopher_n and_o in_o the_o 19_o of_o the_o act_n that_o he_o dispute_v daily_o in_o the_o school_n of_o one_o tyrannus_n and_o therefore_o my_o humble_a request_n unto_o you_o be_v that_o you_o will_v behave_v and_o demean_v yourselves_o so_o as_o people_n that_o stand_v in_o the_o presence_n of_o god_n and_o do_v apprehend_v that_o we_o have_v a_o ordinance_n of_o god_n in_o hand_n i_o know_v there_o be_v some_o weak_a objection_n which_o some_o bring_v against_o what_o i_o now_o say_v as_o first_o that_o of_o the_o apostle_n phil._n 2._o where_o he_o command_v that_o all_o thing_n be_v do_v without_o dispute_n and_o that_o in_o the_o 1._o of_o tim._n 6._o where_o he_o speak_v against_o perverse_a dispute_n but_o the_o answer_n be_v easy_a that_o he_o do_v not_o speak_v in_o either_o of_o these_o place_n against_o his_o own_o practice_n but_o against_o those_o disputation_n which_o proceed_v from_o perverseness_n and_o corruption_n in_o the_o heart_n of_o man_n another_o thing_n that_o some_o will_v object_n be_v this_o that_o the_o weak_a be_v not_o to_o be_v admit_v to_o doubtful_a disputation_n and_o therefore_o not_o to_o such_o a_o conference_n or_o dispute_n as_o this_o be_v to_o which_o i_o answer_v that_o when_o the_o apostle_n speak_v against_o the_o admit_v of_o weak_a christian_n to_o doubtful_a disputation_n he_o speak_v of_o those_o disputation_n which_o concern_v not_o thing_n fundamental_a but_o the_o point_n which_o we_o be_v upon_o be_v of_o great_a concernment_n a_o fundamental_a point_n in_o religion_n the_o ground_n of_o faith_n what_o it_o be_v that_o every_o man_n and_o woman_n must_v believe_v that_o they_o may_v be_v save_v as_o whether_o they_o be_v to_o believe_v that_o christ_n die_v with_o a_o intention_n to_o save_v all_o the_o posterity_n of_o adam_n or_o whether_o he_o die_v to_o save_v sinner_n indefinite_o that_o whosoever_o believe_v in_o he_o shall_v not_o perish_v but_o etc._n etc._n and_o therefore_o i_o conceive_v that_o objection_n will_v not_o at_o all_o prejudice_n our_o practice_n at_o this_o time_n a_o three_o objection_n be_v this_o that_o there_o be_v such_o incivility_n usual_o among_o the_o people_n at_o such_o conference_n that_o it_o be_v a_o great_a deal_n better_a to_o let_v they_o alone_o then_o for_o godly_a man_n to_o engage_v in_o they_o to_o this_o i_o answer_v that_o this_o be_v the_o fault_n of_o the_o people_n and_o not_o of_o the_o duty_n and_o i_o hope_v your_o ingenuity_n will_v be_v such_o at_o this_o time_n and_o your_o christianity_n that_o you_o will_v be_v able_a by_o your_o demeanour_n to_o confute_v this_o objection_n i_o hope_v you_o will_v remember_v that_o you_o be_v christian_n the_o most_o of_o you_o and_o that_o you_o ought_v in_o body_n and_o soul_n to_o behave_v yourselves_o in_o all_o thing_n to_o the_o glory_n of_o your_o heavenly_a father_n the_o last_o objection_n that_o i_o have_v meet_v withal_o be_v this_o that_o usual_o in_o such_o dispute_v man_n rather_o seek_v themselves_o then_o the_o glory_n of_o jesus_n christ_n and_o vent_v their_o passion_n and_o seek_v for_o mastery_n rather_o than_o for_o truth_n but_o i_o hope_v there_o will_v be_v such_o a_o presence_n of_o the_o spirit_n of_o grace_n in_o the_o learned_a respondent_fw-la and_o myself_o that_o by_o our_o deportment_n we_o shall_v be_v able_a to_o overthrow_v and_o to_o detect_v the_o weakness_n of_o this_o objection_n and_o therefore_o i_o desire_v you_o with_o silence_n and_o candour_n to_o hear_v we_o whilst_o we_o seek_v not_o ourselves_o but_o the_o glory_n of_o god_n in_o the_o exaltation_n of_o truth_n in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o lord_n jesus_n mr._n goodwin_n i_o hope_v the_o people_n of_o god_n here_o gather_v together_o will_v give_v i_o also_o the_o patient_a hear_n of_o a_o word_n or_o two_o and_o so_o mete_v out_o the_o same_o measure_n unto_o i_o which_o they_o have_v do_v to_o you_o whereas_o mr._n simpson_n be_v please_v to_o instance_n in_o several_a place_n wherein_o paul_n the_o

have_v say_v something_o to_o it_o but_o this_o have_v be_v answer_v before_o he_o do_v not_o say_v here_o in_o these_o word_n that_o the_o purpose_n of_o god_n according_a to_o election_n may_v stand_v concern_v esau_n and_o jacob_n personal_o or_o particular_o but_o that_o purpose_n of_o god_n according_a to_o election_n whereof_o he_o here_o speak_v respect_v universal_o the_o whole_a world_n and_o the_o reason_n why_o jacob_n and_o esau_n be_v here_o mention_v and_o so_o the_o reason_n of_o what_o be_v say_v to_o the_o mother_n of_o they_o when_o she_o be_v big_a with_o they_o it_o be_v by_o way_n of_o confirmation_n of_o the_o decree_n of_o god_n from_o eternity_n touch_v the_o whole_a world_n for_o it_o be_v clear_a the_o child_n be_v not_o yet_o bear_v neither_o have_v do_v any_o good_a or_o evil_n that_o the_o purpose_n of_o god_n according_a to_o election_n may_v stand_v he_o do_v not_o say_v that_o any_o decree_n of_o election_n or_o purpose_n of_o god_n about_o election_n 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mr_n moderator_n you_o see_v what_o liberty_n mr_n goodwin_n take_v in_o hold_v forth_o his_o opinion_n he_o have_v deliver_v his_o thought_n and_o i_o desire_v that_o i_o may_v have_v the_o same_o liberty_n to_o deliver_v my_o thought_n and_o what_o i_o hold_v concern_v election_n and_o reprobation_n mr_n ames_n mr_n sympson_n if_o you_o please_v to_o discourse_v from_o the_o 11_o and_o 12._o verse_n and_o show_v by_o a_o necessary_a consequence_n that_o god_n purpose_n and_o decree_n do_v mind_n from_o eternity_n particular_a person_n then_o shall_v you_o direct_o oppose_v the_o answer_n which_o the_o learned_a opponent_n have_v give_v mr_n symps_n for_o that_o i_o have_v plain_o hold_v it_o forth_o and_o my_o argument_n be_v not_o yet_o answer_v i_o say_v that_o jacob_n and_o esau_n be_v particular_a person_n and_o that_o the_o decree_n of_o god_n respect_v they_o and_o that_o before_o they_o have_v do_v either_o good_a or_o evil_n that_o he_o love_v the_o one_o before_o he_o have_v do_v any_o good_a and_o hate_v the_o other_o before_o he_o have_v do_v any_o evil_n and_o therefore_o the_o decree_n of_o god_n do_v not_o respect_v sort_n or_o kind_n of_o man_n but_o particular_a person_n and_o that_o there_o be_v a_o particular_a number_n of_o man_n who_o god_n do_v love_n from_o eternity_n not_o from_o any_o fore-seen_a faith_n or_o work_n in_o they_o and_o that_o there_o be_v a_o particular_a number_n of_o man_n who_o be_v reprobate_v from_o eternity_n not_o in_o consideration_n of_o any_o sin_n or_o unbelief_n find_v in_o they_o this_o be_v that_o which_o i_o hold_v out_o even_o a_o eternal_a decree_n of_o god_n concern_v the_o salvation_n of_o particular_a person_n not_o in_o consideration_n of_o faith_n or_o holiness_n in_o they_o but_o mere_o from_o his_o own_o love_n or_o bené_fw-fr placitum_fw-la that_o be_v the_o ground_n of_o his_o election_n god_n do_v not_o choose_v man_n because_o he_o fore-sees_a that_o they_o will_v be_v holy_a but_o he_o do_v therefore_o choose_v they_o that_o they_o may_v be_v holy_a as_o the_o apostle_n do_v plain_o make_v it_o out_o to_o we_o in_o ephes_n 1._o 4_o 5._o where_o it_o be_v say_v that_o we_o be_v elect_v in_o christ_n jesus_n that_o we_o may_v be_v holy_a so_o that_o no_o holiness_n or_o faith_n or_o any_o thing_n in_o the_o creature_n be_v the_o ground_n of_o elect_v of_o any_o person_n but_o only_o the_o will_n of_o god_n who_o work_v all_o thing_n say_v the_o apostle_n according_a to_o the_o counsel_n of_o his_o own_o will_n and_o therefore_o say_v christ_n i_o thank_v thou_o o_o father_n lord_n of_o heaven_n and_o earth_n that_o thou_o have_v hide_v these_o thing_n from_o the_o wise_a and_o prudent_a and_o have_v reveal_v they_o unto_o babe_n and_o when_o he_o have_v do_v so_o he_o lay_v down_o no_o other_o reason_n but_o this_o even_o so_o o_o father_n because_o it_o please_v thou_o and_o so_o likewise_o the_o apostle_n in_o rom._n 8._o in_o that_o golden_a chain_n of_o call_v and_o justification_n and_o glorification_n he_o do_v not_o make_v they_o antecedent_n to_o election_n as_o they_o who_o hold_v universal_a redemption_n do_v but_o consequence_n of_o election_n and_o this_o be_v the_o point_n which_o i_o desire_v liberty_n to_o prove_v namely_o that_o there_o be_v some_o particular_a person_n hate_v of_o god_n from_o all_o eternity_n and_o that_o there_o be_v other_o love_v of_o god_n from_o eternity_n and_o that_o god_n do_v real_o intend_v the_o salvation_n of_o the_o one_o by_o the_o death_n of_o christ_n and_o not_o in_o good_a earnest_a the_o salvation_n of_o the_o other_o but_o rather_o the_o aggravation_n of_o their_o condemnation_n thereby_o mr._n ames_n here_o have_v be_v much_o liberty_n of_o speak_v and_o it_o be_v now_o desire_a that_o you_o will_v betake_v yourselves_o to_o a_o more_o strict_a way_n of_o disputation_n mr_n goodwin_n we_o humble_o desire_v a_o answer_n to_o those_o three_o verse_n in_o rom._n 9_o 11_o 12_o 13._o from_o whence_o it_o have_v be_v intimate_v from_o esau_n and_o jacob_n that_o the_o eternal_a decree_n of_o god_n have_v a_o eye_n to_o particular_a person_n mr._n griffith_n both_o mr._n goodwin_n and_o mr._n sympson_n agree_v in_o this_o that_o the_o decree_n of_o god_n from_o eternity_n do_v respect_v the_o person_n of_o man_n only_o one_o fasten_v it_o upon_o the_o state_n and_o the_o other_o upon_o the_o person_n and_o therefore_o if_o it_o please_v you_o i_o desire_v that_o they_o may_v be_v recall_v to_o what_o they_o have_v say_v and_o concern_v this_o scripture_n so_o far_o as_o it_o concern_v this_o dispute_n that_o they_o will_v only_o proceed_v and_o then_o leave_v it_o to_o the_o congregation_n mr_n simpson_n the_o word_n be_v not_o considerable_a as_o speak_v of_o person_n under_o such_o or_o such_o a_o state_n for_o this_o reason_n because_o it_o be_v say_v before_o they_o have_v do_v good_a or_o evil_n etc._n etc._n mr_n goodwin_n there_o have_v be_v answer_n give_v to_o that_o already_o there_o can_v be_v any_o thing_n prove_v here_o to_o be_v speak_v of_o the_o two_o child_n but_o of_o the_o two_o nation_n and_o i_o tell_v you_o moreover_o concern_v those_o word_n that_o the_o purpose_n of_o god_n according_a to_o election_n may_v stand_v they_o contain_v that_o great_a declaration_n of_o the_o absolute_a purpose_n of_o god_n by_o which_o and_o according_a to_o the_o tenor_n of_o which_o he_o intend_v to_o justify_v the_o world_n and_o the_o apostle_n have_v nothing_o to_o do_v about_o personal_a election_n mr_n simpson_n for_o that_o we_o must_v refer_v it_o to_o the_o wisdom_n which_o god_n have_v give_v to_o his_o servant_n to_o judge_v whether_o election_n be_v of_o particular_a person_n or_o of_o state_n and_o condition_n it_o be_v the_o desire_n of_o the_o moderator_n that_o i_o address_v myself_o to_o a_o new_a argument_n against_o your_o position_n which_o i_o do_v that_o jesus_n christ_n do_v not_o die_v intentional_o on_o his_o father_n part_n for_o all_o the_o posterity_n of_o adam_n my_o argument_n be_v this_o christ_n do_v not_o die_v to_o save_v those_o who_o his_o father_n have_v actual_o damn_v before_o he_o suffer_v but_o there_o be_v some_o that_o be_v actual_o damn_v before_o jesus_n christ_n suffer_v death_n and_o therefore_o god_n the_o father_n in_o the_o death_n of_o his_o son_n do_v not_o intend_v the_o salvation_n of_o all_o man_n mr_n goodwin_n i_o absolute_o deny_v your_o major_a proposition_n for_o it_o hold_v as_o effectual_o against_o those_o who_o die_v in_o the_o faith_n of_o jesus_n christ_n as_o those_o who_o die_v in_o their_o unbeleef_n if_o the_o death_n of_o christ_n only_o wrought_v forward_o mr_n simpson_n i_o prove_v the_o proposition_n that_o god_n do_v not_o intend_v the_o salvation_n of_o those_o who_o