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A12793 The sale of salt. Or The seasoning of soules Namely such, as for whom the chapmen here doe come, and whom the author, which taketh the name of a salter, is willing, what in him lieth, to season with the salt of the Word, leauing the successe to the Lord, without whose blessing in such works we can do nothing. Written by Iohn Spicer, minister of the word of God at Leckhamsteed in the county of Buckingham. Spicer, John. 1611 (1611) STC 23101; ESTC S117790 175,913 412

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Rom. 22 9. Eph. 2.10 Tit. 2.11.22.13 wee teach with the Apostle that euery one that calleth on the name of Christ must depart from iniquity abhorre euill and cleaue to good for that God hath ordained good workes that we should walke in them and that the grace of God that bringeth saluation to all men hath appeared and teacheth vs that we should deny vngodlinesse and worldly lustes and that we should liue soberly righteously and godly in this present world looking for the blessed hope and appearance of the glory of the mighty God and of our Sauiour Iesus Christ therefore neighbour doe not thinke th●t we shut out good workes from the life of a Christian or that we commend that kinde of dead faith whereof S. Iames speaketh that beléeueth there is a God but will do no good for Gods sake doe not condemne vs before you heare vs. Rom. I haue heard that you Protestants discerne the iust from the vniust by the law of Faith nnd not of workes did euer any of the ancient Catholiques so discerne the one of these from the other Guid. Hearken what Saint Augustinesaith Nostra Fides c. that is saith hee the Catholique faith discerneth the iust from the vniust not by the law of works Contra duas epistolas pelag ad Bonifaciū lib. 3 cap. 5. Abac 2 but by the very law of faith because the iust liueth by faith By the which discerning it commeth to passe that a man liuing without Man-quelling without Theft without False-witnesse without coueting that is another mans rendring due honour to his parents bee so chaste that hee conteineth from all coupling euen in wedlock be very liberall in giuing Almes suffering iniuries with all patience which not onely taketh not away which belongeth to another but requireth not his owne being taken from him or hauing sold all that he hath and giuen it to the poore possesseth nothing of his owne yet with all these his laudable manners as it were if hee hold not the right Catholique faith towards God he may depart out of this life to be damned Now there is another which hath indéed good workes out of a right faith which worketh by loue but yet hee is such a one as matcheth not the other in manners hee sustaineth his incontinency with the honesty of marriage hee rendreth and requireth the debt of carnall copulation not onely for propagation 1. Cor. 7. but also for pleasure so as yet he lyeth with his onely wife which thing the Apostle granteth to the married secundum veniam according to leaue yet hee beareth not iniuries patiently but in his anger is caried with a desire of reuenge yet so as being requested he forgiueth that he may say Math. 6. As we forgiue our debters hée possesseth goods and of them giueth Almes not so largely as the other hee taketh not away that which is another mans but séeketh to haue his owne though not at the Common Law Ecclesiastico iudic●o non forens●● yet by iudgement Ecclesiasticall This man though hee seeme inferiour to the other in maners yet for the right Faith which he hath in God by the which Faith hee liueth and according vnto which he accuseth himselfe in all his faults prayseth God in all good workes giuing ignominie to himselfe glory to him and receiuing from him both pardon of sinnes and loue of well-doing hee departeth to bee deliuered from this life and to bee receiued into the fellowship of such as are to reigne with Christ Why but for Faith the which all-be-it it saueth none without works for that is no reprobate faith which worketh by loue yet by it also sinnes are loosed Abac. 2 because the iust liue by faith but without it euen those workes which séeme good are turned into sinne Rom. 14. For all that is not of faith is sinne Thus farre Saint Augustine where wee finde him twice citing the Prophet Abacuk to proue that euen the iust man doth liue by Faith and that the Catholique Faith in his time and which hee calleth our Faith discerneth the iust from the vniust by the Law not of works but of Faith Tract Yet that faith which which he speaketh of worketh by loue Guid. True for if it were idle or dead it could not apprehend Christ which is our righteousnes nor assure vs that we are especially called to Saluation through him Rom. You haue brought all this out of Saint Augustine to moue me to make more account of faith and to that end belike you would haue me to bee one of your hearers but if I should frame my selfe or rather if God should moue mee to hearken to your doctrine you must haue a care that your life be answerable thereto otherwise if you preach against swearing tipling dicing whooring couenant-breaking vnmercifulnesse c. and bee stained with any of these fowle spots your selfe I assure you though I make some account of Cappe and Surplesse and such like yet I shall thinke that you deserue to be depriued rather for being blotted with these deformities then for omitting these formalities Tract All your talke is to mee and my Cozen to haue vs come to Church but you say nothing to Cathara which hath no minde to be churched to knéele at Communion to the Ring in Marriage nor to haue her child crost after baptisme Cath. How doe you know what I doe your selues not beeing seene in the Church of a long time I beleeue if Tom Piper would play there once in seuen daies with his puplets we should haue you there weekly Rom. How say you by that loe your good word is ready at all times Madam Well let this prying into one anothers doing passe and pray God to giue you charitable hearts one towards another and remember that when the Lord saith he will giue his people one heart as you haue heard he doth promise it a blessing pray therefore that you may haue an vnity in the verity We liue here God be praised vnder a Christian magistrate which no doubt is greeued to see his subiects thus diuided he would faine haue an vnity and the same declared by an vniformity and that in some externall things In which though hee doe not yet your Priests seeme to put a kinde of holinesse and religion and all as I thinke to draw you to feede on matters of better quality that will indeed nourish But wee see by a fearefull experience that the more our church yeeldeth to the formal coats the readier some are to cut our throats whether wee mourne or pype you will neither weep nor daunce with vs God turne your hearts if it be his will that you may come pray and praise God with vs. Truly Mistresse Romana your Papists are in a drowsie dreame you thinke you see S. Peter whom some of you make porter stand ready to let you into Heauen for being so willing to destroy those which say with him speaking of Iesus Christ there is no other
your old Latine Edition and in other places of the New Testament so in the psalmes And comming at last to the nintie psalme hee saith Sunt huius Psalmi versus septemdecim c. There bee seauenteene verses in this psalme and I dare bee bolde to say there bee more faults in the Translation of this psalme then there bee verses in the psalme And in the same Chapter he saith Itaque vere dici potest non esse hos Dauidicos Psalmos quos illi in suis sacris lectitant atque cantitant sed Graci Latinique interpretis errores Therefore it may truely bee said that the psalmes which they vsually reade and sing in their Seruice are not Dauids psalms but the errours of the Greeke and Latine Interpreter It were heere too long to recite all the faults he setteth downe in the twelfth chapter of that second question where hee noteth many places of the New Testament corrupted in the Latine Edition Towardes the end of the Chapter hee saith hee hath chosen a fewe out of manny if hee should set downe all hee should make a Volume If you list to buy the Booke it is Intituled Disputatio de sacra scriptura c. Tract Did not he which wrote that booke finde fault with them Pag. 118. which put ipsa for ipsum in the third of Genesis verse 15 Guid. Yes for finding Hu in the Hebrew and Autos in the Greeke He saw there was no reason why it should bee translated ipsae she as if not Christ but the blessed Virgin had broken the Serpents head Speake your minde M Tract did she or our blessed Sauiour dash the Diuels power Tract She brought forth him that did it Guid. We all agree in that and therefore she may be wel called blessed being preferred through the fauour of God to such an excellent office Mad. Me thinkes learned men that agree in this that the holy Scriptures are penned by the holy Ghost and contain such things as are true should leaue publishing one anothers ouersights or whatsoeuer you list to call it and ioyne together in Christian and louing sort to set forth a sound translation It is an easie matter to espy here and theee a broken quarrell in the windowes of a great building yea and of a little house too But to builde the whole house and so to build it as it may please euery mans eye that hath skill in building is another maner of matter Guid Yea Madame if charity had once so possest our hearts as to moue vs in a brotherly sort to seeke for the truth and to worship the fountaine of our life light as he might bee pleased with vs we might sing Ecee quam bonum c. Behold how good Psal 133. c. Rom. Before wee come to singing let mee heare what men of your side say of Baptisme Guid. A reuerend Father of this Land in one of his bookes saith thus Since Children be defiled by Adam B. B. if they may not be washed by Christ the disobedience of man shall be mightier to condemnation then the grace of God and the obedience of Christ to iustification which the Scriptures reiect as a wicked absurdity Wherefore the Church absolutely and flatly may not assure saluation vnto children vnbaptized lest they seeme naturally innocent or generally sanctified without baptisme albeit their parents desiring and seeking it Note if they be preuented by naturall necessity we must leaue them to the goodnesse and secret election of God not without hope because in their parents there wanted not will but an extremity disappointed them And in the Children the let was weakenesse of Age not wickednesse of heart And so the Sacrament omitted not for any contempt of Religion but by strictnesse of time In which cases Saint Augustine saith the want of baptisme may bee supplyed if it please God c. Tract Doth not your allowed Catechisme hold Sacraments generally necessary to Saluation Guid. Yes for that which is ordained by Christ to confirme our faith c. may well bee counted needfull to Saluation generally Tract What saith your Caluin is he of no request with you now Guid. I know in what request hee is Iust cap 15. But thus hee writeth touching the matter wee haue in hand No small wrong is done to the Couenant of God if wee doe not rest in it as though it were weake in it selfe whereas the effect thereof hangeth neither vpon Bapstime nor vpon any other Additions There is afterward added to it a Sacrament like a seale not that it bringeth effectualnesse to the promise of God as to a thing weake of it selfe but onely confirmeth it to vs. Whereupon it followeth the Children of the faithfull are not therefore baptized that they may then first bee made the Children of God which before were strangers from the Church Note Not by ●a●ure but by promise but rather that they bee therefore receiued by a solemne signe into the Church because by the benefite of the promise they did already belong to the body of our Sau●our Iesus Christ c. And in the sixteenth Chapter hee saith Baptisme besides this that it is a signe to testifie religion before men sheweth first the cleansing of sinne which we obtaine of the bloud of Christ then the mortifying the flesh which standeth vpon the partaking of his death by which the faithfull are regenerate to newnesse of lif● receiued into the fellowship of Christ Further he saith whatsoeuer agreeth with Circumcision agreeth also with Baptisme 1. The foundation in both is one to wit Christ 2. The promises whereupon the power of the signes consist are one namely of the fatherly fauour of God of the forgiuenesse of sinnes of life euerlasting 3. The thing figured is all one in both to wit regeneration Tract What else haue you of his Guid. Fateor oblatam scandali occasionem Epist resp si infans c. I confesse there is an occasion of scandall or offence offered to all the godly if by thy slackenesse or negligence the infant depart without Baptisme Wherefore not onely are they not to be borne withall which neglect baptisme but they also are not to be allowed which through a certaine boasting and for ostentations sake do long protract the administratiō of an holy thing But the infant by that meanes is depriued of the signe of health to with Baptisme yet I deny that his state is any thing the worse before God for albeit Baptisme be a seale of our adoption yet we are writtē in the book of life both by the grace of God and also by his promise For tell mee for what cause our children are saued but by that word Ego sum Deus seminis tui Gen 17.7 I am the God of thy seed and except that word did appertalne vnto them they were not to bee admitted vnto Baptisme Now if their saluation stayeth it selfe on the promise of God and that foundation bee fit of