and so might they circumcise themselves must not this bee done amongst and before the people of God in his visible Church whence such were called Proselytes and reckoned of the Common-wealth of Israel Esay 56. 3 4 5 6. And is not all this to joyne themselves to the visible instituted Church before they were circumcised Lastly it is not true that no man could be reputed a visible beleever before hee did all this That which followes pag. 40. is answered before Reply If Lot Job c. were not circumcised there is not the like reason for Circumcision and baptisme in this particular Answ The force of the consideration doth not depend upon the likenesse of reason betweene the persons to be circumcised and baptized in every respect but in this that as Circumcision and the Passeover were given onely to visible members of that instituted visible Church and therefore so in this case of baptisme and the Lords Supper now therefore if you could alledge many more different reasons betweene Lot Job c. that were not circumcised and those not to bee baptized it would little availe in the case but wee shall consider your differences particularly Reply First If ever circumcision was appropriated to Abrahams family and might not be communicated to other visible beleevers it was in the first institution but in the first institution of baptisme it was not so observed that beleevers should bee gathered into a Christian Church and then baptized Mat. 3. 7. John baptized such as came to him confessing their sinnes the Apostles baptized Disciples such as gladly received their doctrine c. Answ There is no such disparity in this as is objected for Abrahams family was in Covenant before Circumcision was given onely the Covenant was more fully explained and confirmed and so when John baptized hee baptized the members of the Jewes Church in Covenant before to whom hee was sent to turne the heart of the fathers to the children c. and to prepare a people for the Lord and baptisme was then given to the Church of the Jewes with reference to so many as would receive the doctrine of John concerning repentance and remission of sinnes by faith in the Messiah now come amongst them and therefore Christ himselfe and his Disciples remained yet members of that Church Secondly Though the visible Kingdome of Christ was not yet to bee erected in Christian Churches till after Christs death and Resurrection whereby hee did put an end to the Jewish worship and therefore no Christian Churches could bee gathered by John yet there was a middle state of a people prepared for the Lord gathered out of the Jewish Church which according to that state were made the Disciples of John by solemne profession of their repentance or conversion to God and acknowledgement of Christ the Lambe of God already come to whom the seale of baptisme was appropriated As for the instances Act. 2. 37. c. and 8. 37. and 10. 47 48. they are spoken to before in the first consideration Reply Secondly Lot Job c. were not bound to joyne to Abrahams family and bee circumcised but now all visible beleevers are bound to seeke baptisme in an holy manner Answ First This difference makes little to the point in hand it is enough that all that would be circumcised were bound to joyne to that Church and so now Secondly in after times no doubt every true proselyte fearing God was bound to joyne to that church as well as now and if now all visible beleevers be bound to professe their faith and seek baptisme in an holy manner why should they not bee bound to joyne to some visible Church and seeke it there as well as of old yea where should they professe their faith but in the visible Churches as the Proselytes of old did Your third difference is oft pressed and answered before Reply Fourthly If Circumcision bee appropriated to the family of Abraham it is because that Covenant was peculiar to Abrahams posterity namely that Christ should come of Isaac but baptisme is the Seale of the Covenant of Grace without peculiarity or respect Answ This difference is of little moment neither will it hold for first though that and other promises had a speciall eye to Abrahams family yet Circumcision sealed the righteousnesse of faith Rom. 4. to them being in visible Covenant with the Church as baptisme now doth Secondly this peculiar respect you speake of no way hindereth the joyning of many servants to Abrahams family and Covenant nor any proselytes to the Church afterward of any nation no more then now in respect of baptisme Thirdly the true reason was because although the Covenant was made with others yet not established nor enlarged towards them and hence if they would partake of such a Covenant they must joyne in this which also is the glory of the rich grace of Christ shining forth in Church-Covenant with all that will become a people to him to this day The first difference is answered in the first and second CHAP. IX Consid 4. Reply TO the fourth consideration first Men are capable of Church censures either as having power to dispense them or as being subject unto them c. In the second sense many are capable of Church priviledges who are not subject to Church censures as the children of Christian Parents are capable of baptisme and approved members of any true Church are capable of Seales in other Congregations amongst you who are not subject to the censures of the other Congregation spiritual Communion in publike prayer whereof visible beleivers not in Church order are capable but not subject to common censures in your sense Answ This distinction is needlesse our meaning is plaine in the second sense and therefore wee say nothing to what is objected against the first To the instances objected against the proposition in the second sense wee answer first concerning the Infants of Church-members they are subject to censures whensoever they offend the Church as others are though so long as they live innocently they need them not Secondly Members of any true visible Church are subject and so capable of censure though not in another Church which is not in in the proposition 2 Also they are capable of censures mediately by and in that other Church if they there offend for that Church may admonish and prosecute the admonition in the Church to which they belong and refuse society with them if they repent not which cannot bee said of such as are not members of any visible Church who cannot be prosecuted to excommunication in any place Thirdly Publike prayers of the Church though they bee an ordinance of Christ and the Church have a speciall Communion in them in which respect others do not share yet they are not a priviledge or peculiar ordinance wherein none but the Church may share for an Heathen or Infidel may hear the word and joyne in the prayers being cultus naturalis saying Amen unto the same
that the Apostles did walke by ordinary rules generally Reply Fourthly the practise of the Apostles in receiving the faithfull c. is backed on divine precept c. Answ If you meane they baptized such without receiving them into some particular Church wee deny this assumption upon the grounds laid downe before Reply Fiftly In the first consideration you prove the seales to be the priviledge of the Church in ordinary dispensation by this passage of Scripture Then they that gladly received the word were baptized but if the Apostles baptized by extraordinary dispensation in your sense this testimony is insufficient for that purpose Answ Although the printed Copy of our answer omit this proofe wholly and also Rom. 9. 4 yet in our true Cypy wee alledged Acts 2 41 42. 47. wherein you will finde not onely this passage Then they that gladly received the word were baptized but withall that they were added to the Church and such a Church as continued stedfastly in the fellowship c. of the Apostles Likewise Verse 47. that the conversion and baptizing of Disciples being omitted the joyning or adding to the Church is put in the stead thereof which proofes as they are omitted wholly in the printed Copy so also you make no reply unto them Secondly by these proofes it might easily have been seene that wee did not looke upon all the Apostles acts in this case of Baptisme as extraordinary but that their first and leading examples were ordinary and in that order wee plead for which if it had been regarded much labour had been saved in this dispute which hath been spent to little purpose And Our second Reason Reply In due order the sealeâ— belong to them to whom the grant is given but the grant is vouchsafed to the faithfull and their seed forgivenesse of sinnes c. and the benefits of the Covenant are so linked together that where one is granted none is denyed c. Answ 'T is true the Seales belong to all them by a remote right to whom the grant is given as hath been oft said but not immediate yet in the very propounding of this reason wee may observe two things that doe cut the â—â—ewes of it 1 The limitation of due order which as hath been said can no where be found but in a particular Church Let any shew what order Christ hath put his Catholick visible Church into or where that order is to bee seene but in particular Churches by which order every one is bound to joyne to such Churches as well as to partake in the outward Ordinances of Gods worship which are there onely to be found Secondly it is granted that not onely forgivenesse of sins but all other benefits of the Covenant of grace are linked together and are the grant sealed up in the Sacrament and if so is not visible conjunction with Christ and his Church with all the priviledges of the Church and ordinances of the same part of that grant by the Covenant of grace or of the Gospell wee suppose none would deny it why then should not visible beleevers require and take up this part of the grant as well as the seale of it for sigillum sequitur donum let them take this gift and the seale is ready for them And this may answer the first part of the Reply about Rom. 4. 11. as also all the rest which followes being things so oft repeated and answered before as make it tedious to all CHAP. XIIII Position 5. THat the power of excommunication is so in the body of the Church that what the major part shall allow must bee done though the Pastors and Governors and the rest of the assembly be of another mind and that peradventure upon more substantiall reasons Reply This question is much mistaken for the demand is not Whether in the Congregation matters should be carried by number of votes against God as you interpret the position but whether the power of excommunication so lie in the body of the Congregation as that sentence must proceed in externo foro according to the vote and determination of the major part and so in admissions of members c. and though they have no power against God but for God yet in execution of that power they may bee divided in judgement and one part must erre Now hence the question is moved Whether the power hee so in the people that what the major part determine must stand Answ If our whole answer had been attended unto it is so cleare and full that it could not with any shew of reason bee subject to such a mistake To omit the first part of our answer affirmatively wherein wee cite Mr. Parker as consenting with him In the second part to the position as stated our answer is plainely negative that excommunication is not so seated neither ought to bee so in any of the Churches of the Lord Jesus What followes is our reason grounded upon the last clause of the position because Churches ought to carry things not by number of votes against God as this position implies but by strength of Rule and Reason according to God and for edification 2 Cor. 13. 8. 2 Cor. 10. 8. Now let any judge whether the position doth not imply such an absurdity so oft as things should bee carried by the major vote against the Officers and the rest having better Reasons and therefore wee are apt to think that if the learned author had been so ready to embrace any syllable that lends to dislodge these thoughts of us as leaning to separation hee would have beleeved our plaine negation of this position which indeed is according to our constant practise never following the major part of votes against the Officers but counting it the duty of the Officers in such cases either to satisfie the consciences of the major part or lesser by the rule of the word or to yeeld not to the vote but reasons if they bee stranger or to suspend the businesse and referre to the counsell of other Churches if they cannot agree but a division arise according to the patterne Act. 15. Reply Amongst them that hold the power of the Keyes to bee given to the Church some as Fenner Parker I. D. distinguish between the power it selfe which they give to the Church and the execution which they confine to the Presbytery others give the power of the Keyes with the exercise thereof to the whole body of the Church or if in the dispensation they attribute any thing to the Officers it is but as servants of the Church from whom they derive their authority and here lies the stone at which the Separation stumble and which wee conceive to bee your judgement and practise wherein wee required your plaine answer but have received no satisfaction You referre us to Mr. Parkers Reasons to prove the power of the Keyes belong to the whole Church who are of farre differing judgement from him in the point it selfe and if your judgement and
beleevers as the way of the Gospel and Rom. 16. 1. wee have a plaine example of orderly receiving the members of one Church to Communion in an other being recommended thereunto by the Apostles wee have not the like for any not in Church order at all and though there be a parity in respect of particular relation with that Pastour and flock yet that is a disparity in regard of immediate right that the one have to the ordinances of Christ and priviledges of a Church which the other have not being out of that order of Christ prescribed in the Gospel in which order of a visible Church visible ordinances are to be dispensed as hath been proved before Reply If a Synod consisting of sundry members of particular Churches met together in the name of Christ about the common and publike affaires of the Churches shall joine together in prayer and Communion of the Supper we can see no ground to question it as unlawfull although that assembly bee no particular Congregation or Church hath no Pastour over them c. Answ That suâ—h an assembly may pray together is no question for every family may doe so and that they may receive the Supper also in a right order wee deny not for meeting where there is a particular instituted Church they may have Communion therewith in the Supper being many as well as few but whether they may as a Church being no politicall body but members of many Politicall Churches administer Church ordinances proper to a Church wee would see some reasons before wee can judge it lawfull so to doe for though some doe account such a Synod Ecclesia orta yet not properly such a Church as hath Ecclesiasticall power authority and priviledge belonging thereto they may consult and doctrinally determine of cases of that assembly Acts 15. but further to proceed we see no rule nor paterne Besides if such an assembly of many Churches may administer Seales why may not any other assembly of Church members or Ministers doe the samâ— and so this power will be carried without limitation we know not how far if they once depart from a particular Church CHAP. VIII Consid 3. Reply TO the third consideration this whole reason as it is propounded makes onely against it selfe who ever thought that the Seales were not proper to confederates or the Church of God of old visible beleevers in the Covenant of grace were of the visible Church and in Church order according to the dispensation of those times though not joyned to the society of Abrahams family to exclude Job Melchisedeck c. because not of the visible Church is welnigh a contradiction and so to debarre known approved Christians c. Answ That this reason makes not against it self Mr. Ball himself hath cleared when he stated our consideration truely in the words following as will appeare however here he somewhat troubles the waters needlessely that the ground may not appeare for there is nothing in our answer which deny Melchisedech Job c. to bee of the visible Church according to the manner of those times indeed wee instance in them as persons under the covenant of grace not mentioning their membership in family Churches as being enough for our purpose if they had not right to Circumcision by vertue of their right in the covenant of grace except they joyned to the Church at first in Abrahams family and so after to the same Church in Israel and the more speciall Church relation in Abrahams family was required to Circumcision the stronger is the force of our reason not the weaker For so much the rather it followes that seales are not to bee dispensed to beleevers as such though visibly professing the faith except they joyne also to such a forme of the visible Church to or in which the seales are instituted and given Reply The true and proper meaning of this consideration is that as Circumcision and the Passeover were not to bee dispensed to all visible beleevers under the Covenant of grace but onely to such as were joyned to Abrahams family or the people of the God of Abraham no more may Baptisme and the Lords Supper be administred now to any beleevers unlesse they be joyned to some particular Congregation Answ These words rightly stating the consideration wee leave it to any indifferent reader to judge whether any way it make against it selfe or whether there was any cause first to darken it as was done in the former passage Reply The strength of it stands in the parity betweene Circumcision and Baptisme but this parity is not found in every thing as your selves alledge To unfold it more fully wee will consider three things First wherein the Sacraments agree and wherein they differ Answ It matters not in how many things the Sacraments differ so they agree in the thing questioned and though wee might raise Disputes and Queries about some particulars in this large discourse upon this first head yet seeing here is a grant of the parity in the point now questioned viz. Concerning the persons to whom Circumcision and Baptisme doe belong wee shall take what is granted and leave the rest For thus it is said Circumcision and Baptisme are both Sacraments of Divine institution and so they agree in substance of the things signified the persons to whom they are to be administred and the order of administration if the right proportion be observed Now that we â—â—ld the right proportion in the persons may appeare First in that as was granted Circumcision sealed the entrance into the Covenant but this Covenant was not simply and onely the Covenant of grace but that whole Covenant that was made with Abraham whereby on Gods part they were assured of many speciall blessings whereof Lot and others not in this Covenant with Abraham were not capable and whereby Abraham his seed and family were bound for their part to be a people to God and to observe this signe of the Covenant which others in the Covenant of grace were not bound to Answ Secondly as is granted it was Abraham and his houshold and the seed of beleeving Jewes that were the persons to bee Circumcised and therefore not visible beleevers as such for then Lot had been included so by right proportion not all visible beleevers as such but such as with Abraham and his family are in visible Covenant to bee the people of God according to the institution of Churches when and to which the seale of Baptisme is given and therefore as all family Churches but Abrahams being in a new forme of a Church were excluded so much more such as are in no visible constituted Church at all Reply Secondly As for the proposition it selfe certaine it is Circumcision and the Passeover were to bee administred onely to the visible members of the Church i. e. to men in Covenant professing the true faith but that in Abrahams time none were members of the visible Church which joyned not to Abrahams family wee have
not learned Answ The proposition wee see is granted yet it is obscured divers wayes to which wee answer First whereas it is said these members of the Church were men in Covenant professing the true faith True but where not in any place but in the Church of Abrahams family and so after in the Church of Israel Secondly what faith not onely faith in the Messiah for life and salvation but withall faith in the promises made to Abraham and his seed with subjection to the visible worship of God in that Church and to circumcision in particular Thirdly that there were no others of the visible Church besides Abrahams family is not said but being so it strengthens the argument as was shewed before Reply In the first institution of Circumcision God gave it to Abraham as the seale of the Covenant formerly made with him but of any Church Covenant whereinto Abrahams family should enter we read not Answ Whether Circumcision sealed any new Covenant made with Abraham Gen. 17. or that before Gen. 15. wee will not contend neither is it materiall bee it the same covenant hee entred into before for substance yet it is evident 1 That this covenant was no◠simply and onely the covenant of grace but had many peculiar blessings belonging to Abraham and his posterity and family contained in it Gen. 12. and 15. 2 It is very considerable that God made this Covenant with Abraham when hee cal'd him out of that corrupt state of the Church in Ebers family to worship God more purely according to his institutions Gen. 12. 1. with Josh 24. 2. Thirdly this covenant Gen. 17. is more explicate and full then before and especially in that promise which most properly concernes Church covenant viz. that God would take Abraham and his seed into covenant with himselfe even an everlasting covenant to be a God unto them Vers 7. and this in a speciall manner is that which the Lord saith hee would now establish betweene Abraham and himselfe viz. by this signe of the covenant Vers 9 10 11. Fourthly this is the very covenant which the Lord renewed with Abrahams seed afterward when hee established them to bee a Church or people to himselfe as is evident Deut. 29. 12 13. this the Lord is said oft to remember viz. to remember his covenant with Abraham when hee visited his seed with any mercy Exod. 6. 5 6 7 8. Psal 105. 8 9. and therefore it must needs bee a Church covenant Fiftly as Gen. 17. the Lord instituted a visible token and seale of this covenant so hee strictly enjoyned the observation of the same in all the seed and family of Abraham and that in all their generations all which things especially joyntly considered make it evident that Abraham and his were not onely a people but established a people to God in a Church covenant and that the same covenant which was the foundation of the nationall Church of God that was after in his posterity and to this covenant the seale of Circumcision was added Reply Melchisedeck Lot Job might bee circumcised though wee reade not of it as wee read not that John Baptist or the Apostles were baptized or if they were not circumcised it may bee that institution was not knowne to them or they were not required to joyne to Abrahams family and if they had they should have transgressed and so the reason was not because they were not in Church order but because Circumcision was appropriated to Abrahams family in some peculiar respects Answ Though wee reade not of the administration of Baptisme to John Baptist the Apostles and many others yet wee reade of a rule that required it of them and it was a part of that righteousnesse of which the Lord Jesus saith to John Thus it becommeth us to fulfill all righteousnesse Matth. 3. 15. not for the institution of Circumcision did bind Lot Job c. yet that they were forbidden to joyne to Abrahams family and so bee circumcised wee cannot say seeing afterwards Proselytes were reecived into the same Covenant and Church and so circumcised Secondly that it was so appropriated to Abrahams family as that it was unlawfull for them to joyne to Abrahams covenant and be circumcised this is more then can bee shewed or if Lot Melchisedeck Job were excluded yet out of question Abraham might and did enlarge his family and so might take in proselytes visible beleevers in the covenant of grace and circumcise them and so still the appropriating of circumcision to the Church and Covenant of Abrahams family doth not weaken but strengthen the argument in as much as no visible beleever in the Covenant of grace might partake of the seale but by joyning in visible covenant with that Church to which it was given Thirdly suppose Job Lot c. and their families were circumcised as Junius alledgeth Jerome for it yet how will it appeare it was not by taking hold of the Covenant of Abraham to which Circumcision was applyed yet it seemes more probable that Lot and other families in Abrahams time were not partakers thereof God intending as the effect shewes not to establish them nor theirs to bee his people as by Circumcision hee established Abraham and his seed as for Iob if hee were of Abrahams seed and had Circumcision hereditarily à materno paternoque sanguine as some thinke yet this makes nothing against the argument wee have now in hand Answ After the Church of the Iewes was constituted when wee cannot imagine any Church amongst the Gentiles wee finde none must bee admitted to the Passeover that was not circumcised but nothing was required of a stranger but that hee professe the true faith and avouch the God of Abraham to be his God which must be done before hee could be reputed a visible beleever or under the covenant of Grace Reply If any doubtfulnesse can bee raised about the Church in Abrahams family yet the case is so cleare in the following story of the Church as you must needs grant the proposition as you do and the Church of the Jewes is still but the same Church that was in Abrahams house and the covenant the same for Gen. 17. God established the Covenant with him and his seed for an everlasting Covenant to be a God unto them and in Egypt the Lord challenges them as his owne his first borne c. and therefore there is the same reason of circumcision first and last in respect of the Persons that had right unto it but say you nothing was required to circumcision but to professe the faith But we demand first What was it to avouch the God of Abrabam to be his God Was it not to subject himselfe to all the Statutes Commandements and judgements of God in his Church to walke in them as is cleare Deut. 26. 17. Was there not the same Law for the stranger and the home-borne Secondly Where must they professe this faith and avouch this God Was it in any place where they dwelt
visible members of the flock of Christ understand that particular Church out of which they are cast so the right of Baptism belongs to their Infants which being so they are not without that Church though debarred unjustly of the present communion with it unlesse he renounce that Church or other Reply Secondly If such Churches renounce it as are no members of a politick spirituall fellowship be without then the members of one Church are without unto another c. Answ This objection wee have had and answered oft before In a word there cannot bee the like reason no not in respect of that other Church who may in a due order of Christ persecute the censures against them though not compleatly amongst themselves which cannot bee said of such as have not joyned themselves to any Church and therefore wee deny that the Apostles reason was because they were without to Corinth but without to all Churches Reply Thirdly The fornicators of this world doe they not explaine whom the Apostle pointeth unto by the title of being without Verse the 10. 11. such as had not received the Covenant of grace Answ Wee never thought otherwise but that the fornicators of this world and the heathen are most properly without in the Apostles sense but if our words bee observed that in a certain respect or as our words are in regard of visible Church communion such as are in no Church society are said to bee without what great offence have wee given For first is not a godly man if justly excommunicate without in this sense Secondly doth not the Apostle Iohn expresly call them without that forsooke the fellowship of the Church 1 Iohn 2. 19. saying they went out Thirdly were not the Catechumeni of old in this respect without and the lapsed in times of persecution and the like who in those zealous and severe times of Church discipline were not onely said to bee without but stood without though weeping and praying as penitents at the Church doores sometimes for two or three yeeres and after this degree of preparation for entrance into the Church which they called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 there were three more before they were received to the Lords Supper which severity though wee approve not yet it may mollifie the mindes of the godly learned that are apt to bee offended at such a word from us Fourthly our Saviour himselfe expresly saith and that not onely of those of no Church but such as were even of the visible Church and his ordinary hearers that many of them were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or men without and therefore this application of 1 Cor. 5. 12. need not bee called insolent or raise such an hubbub abroad as wee perceive it doth Reply Fourthly Church order is necessary wee deny not but that a man should bee a constant set member of a particular society by Covenant to make him a member of the visible Church or to give him title or interest to the publike order this is not taught of God This is but a bare denyall of the position it selfe but what is meant by publike order wee know not or where the order of Christ which is granted to bee necessary can bee found but in particular Churches wee are yet to learne neither is it any where taught in this Reply and wee would gladly learne how that Church should orderly deale with such a man in case of offence that is of no particular Church Reply Fiftly Paul divides all men into two rankes the first and greater without the last and lesser within but that beleevers c. and their children should be reckoned without we read not in any Scripture but in Scripture phrase hereticks themselves are within 1 John 2 19. 1 Cor. 11. 19. Answ All that is said in this objection except the last clause is but a repeated deniall of the conclusion in other words to the objection about Hereticks within wee grant they are within till cast out or gone out of the Church 1 John 2. 19. and if gone out how are they within and so if an orthodox professor will frowardly forsake all Churches and live alone or among the heathen how is hee within we speake onely in generall Reply Sixtly This hath not beene beleeved in the Church Answ Wee are not bound in every thing to be of the Churches faith and what wee have said before may satisfie here Reply Seventhly Without are Dogs c. Rev. 22. 15. not such as are faithfull holy c. Answ True properly such are without not these yet in some respects as hath been said others also may be without as such as forsake the Church c. as was before said more fully Reply Eighthly They that are without in the Apostles sense are Aliens from the commonwealth of Israel strangers from the Covenant of promise having no hope and without God in the world but we hope you will not passe such rash censure upon the brethren who bee not gathered into the society as set members Answ To say some beleevers may bee without in some respect is farre from such a censure the Scripture saith of Israel in their corrupt estate and defect of the Ordinances of God that they were a long time without God without Law without a teaching Priest yet that hard expression doth not equall them with the heathen much lesse to say some beleevers are without the visible Church in regard of visible Church communion and wee judge no otherwise of such then of our selves when wee were in the like case Reply Ninthly Let this interpretation stand and hee shall bee without also that is not subject to the censures of the community of the particular combination few or many without or with Officers and so all the reformed Churches that ascribe the Keyes to the Presbytery or Classis and not to the community and some amongst your selves if not most shall bee without also And therefore wee cannot thinke that approved Christians desiring seales are either without or not capable of Church censures if they offend though no set members for desiring seales they put themselves under the ordinances for a time and may be proceeded withall as offending members Answ This objection hath no colour without extreame straining of our application of 1 Cor. 5. 12. seeing wee never limited the position to Churches of the same judgement or in like degree of order to ours it is onely a forced odium which is cast upon us but wee can beare more at our brethrens hands neither doe we know any Church or elder that ascribes the power of the Keys to the Presbytery or Classis excluding the community amongst us Secondly for that objection that such put themselves under the ordinances of Christ for the time if with profession of faith and subjection to the government of Christ they desire seales it is something but that the very desiring of seales doth include such a subjection in it selfe being but for this or that act of administration
wee cannot understand but let this bee really made good that desiring seales it being a way that subjects themselves to the Church as members and the case will bee issued being understood of such approved Christians as the position speakes of Lastly to proceed against such as are not members or of another Church as with an offending member of our owne is not much unlike the proceedings of Victor in his contentious time or may sow the seeds of such usurpations which wee leave to the godly wise to consider of Reply Tenthly If upon good reason a passage of Scripture can bee cleared to prove that for which it was never alleadged by any writer wee are not to except against it for want of mans testimony onely in such cases our reasons must bee convincing but for the exposition of this Text wee have not observed one substantiall ground or approved author to bee alledged Dr. Ames shewing the necessitie of Christians joyning themselves to some peculiar Church giveth this reason Quoniam alias fieri non potest quin conturbentur signa illa quibus fideles ab infidelibus discerni possunt 1 Cor. 5. 12. But herein Dr. Ames manifestly sheweth that by them without heathens and unbeleevers must be understood and not beleevers though of no setled society for the time for thus wee conceive hee argueth The signes whereby the faithfull are to bee discerned from unbeleevers must not bee confounded but unlesse Christians make themselves actuall members of a Church the signes whereby the faithfull are discerned from unbeleevers will bee obscured and darkned and if this be his reason how can that Text bee alledged unlesse by men without infidels bee understood Answ First That we have reasons to alledge it in that sense and respect declared may appeare by our answers to your objections Secondly That wee have one approved authour so alleadging it viz. Doctor Ames shall appeare in cleering his meaning from your objections 1. Grant that by men without according to Doctor Ames his reason Infidels be understood by the Apostle yet how shall the signes discerning beleevers from unbeleevers bee confounded by such as joyne not to some particular Church if those beleevers doe not in some respect stand without amongst unbeleevers and the consequence is so plaine that the owne Syllogisme whereinto you cast his argument would have concluded so much if it had been suffered to speake out in the conclusion For in stead of saying except such joyne to some Church the signes will be darkned and obscured the reason rightly concluded would have said fieri non potest it cannot bee but the signes will bee confounded and therefore in his judgement it is unavoidable that such mix themselves with unbeleevers that are without indeed properly in the Apostles sense Reply Againe Doctor Ames lib. 4. cap. 17. speaking of Infants to be received saith it is required first that they be in the Covenant of Grace by outward profession c. Answ What you alledge here out of Doctor Ames wee confesse sheweth that hee was very large in his charity about the baptizing of Infants extending the same to the child of a Papist c. but it may seeme by some passages that hee understood by profession of faith such as live in the visible Churches and lookes at the child of a Papist as one of a visible Church for substance though so exceedingly corrupt but all this do not disprove that he understood 1 Cor. 5. 12. otherwise then hath been said What you alledge out of his second Manuduction concerning the Churches of England we consent unto neither doe wee deny seales to any if they demand them as members of any true Church in England and in an orderly way CHAP. X. Consid 5. Reply TO the first consideration If it bee repugnant to divine institution to admit of approved Christians lawfully baptized walking in the faith members of the visible Churches and partakers of Church priviledges amongst us to the Lords Supper or their children to baptisme because they bee not entered into Church-fellowship according to your order then it is unlawfull though no such evill consequences are to bee feared but if by accident some abuse should fall out the evill is to bee prevented by all lawfull meanes but the faithfull are not to be debarred utterly of the order of God whereto they have right and title by his free grant and gracious institution Answ Wee cannot but still complaine of this liberty which is taken in changing the termes of the question First that clause Members of visible Churches is not in the position nor is it maintained by us in that sense neither doe wee limit Church-fellowship to our order as it is called but acknowledge Churches defective in matters of order as was said in the answer and therefore it is an apparent wrong to us and to the readers so oft to put in such things as are not in the controversie Secondly If it bee unlawfull by divine institution may not evill consequences bee added and if both hold are not our reasons the more strong What needeth then such a Reply Thirdly We have oft granted a remote right but next and immediate we still deny and wee conceive no other order of God in his Churches to prevent such evils then by joyning to the instituted Churches of Christ Reply Seals may bee prophaned when the dispensers cannot helpe it but here is no feare or danger of such consequences necessary to follow for wee speake not of all sorts at randome but of Christians professing the faith intirely lawfully baptized knowne and approved to the wise and judicious visible members of the Churches amongst us sufficiently knowne to you or orderly recommended c. Answ The feare and danger in this case is more then so farre off can easily bee discerned though the limitations bee good in themselves yet the application of this description in the first part of it would open a doore wider then many can imagine for many such in the judgement even of the wisest comming in to this state of temptations prove farre otherwise even your selves being Judges if you were here wee suppose the experience of the discoveries God hath made in these late trials of England amongst forward professors will teach our brethren to consider how many professors may prove here Yet secondly if you add such as retaining their membership in your Churches are recommended unto us by your Churches or by known godly Ministers wee can then according to order receive them and avoid the confusion and inconveniences wee objected Thirdly if also it be taken into the description knowne and sufficiently approved of our selves then the doore is open to them to the communion of the Church and all the priviledges thereof though they cannot settle in the place of their present abode and this way of order would prevent the inconveniences but if wee come to put a difference any other way wee cannot avoid it but great offence will be given to
these particular imputations in this short Chapter and upon what grounds they are built As page 79. That wee hinder men from entrance into Church society because they cannot promise continuance in the Place and running upon this straine he saith Was it ever heard of in the Church of God from the beginning thereof unto this day that any such thing was propounded unto and required of members to bee admitted into Church fellowship Here is a loud outcry and who would not think but that we usually propound and require such a thing in our admissions which yet is nothing so But what is the ground of all this Looke a little before and hee saith If such a promise be required Againe ibidem saith hee wee thinke the Church is over-rigid in exacting such a condition of the members and the members goe beyond their measure as busie bodies and what is the ground It followes If they arrogate such a power to themselves So page next 80. In the word it is not commanded that no member should remove or occasionally be absent from the place of his habitation before he have acquainted the congregation whither he goeth on what occasion c. To what end is this inserted if not to suggest that there is such a practise among us that a man may not occasionally be absent c. which is far from us And what is the ground see a few lines after The Church shall burthen herselfe c. If shee take upon her to intermeddle in all such occasions And immediatly after wee feare the time appointed for religious exercises should bee profaned by unseasonable disputes But what is the ground of this feare conceived and published to the world viz. If such businesses must bee determined on the Lords day and that before the Ordinances c. because it seemes Robinson in case of some notorious obstinate offender would have some censure passed to prevent pollution of an Ordinance and is this ground sufficient Againe in the same page for these things are thick sowne Herein saith he you have devised an expedient or necessary rite or custome to preserve unity c. but if you seeke a ground it will bee found a mistake â—s is shewed before and contrary to the expresse profession of the Answer That wee promise no new duties but onely such as the Gospell requires of all Saints in Church order much lesse doe wee set up new rites and customes And as if all these particular imputations in the compasse of one leafe were two little Page next 81. wee have a whole Catalogue gathered together from other places and this that by laying things together the odium raised might stick the deeper for thus the words are But to presse customes expedient for the time as standing rules necessary at all times and all persons To put authority in the hands of men which God never put upon them and to oblige them to intermeddle To bind the consciences of men and that upon so heavy a penaltie as the sinne of Ananias and Saphira where God hath not bound it To debarre knowne Christians from the seales because they cannot promise to abide in the Church as setled members and yet charge them in the meane season against light to refuse subjection to the Gospel Concerning all which wee doe not know any of them to be true nor approve any such thing in any if it should be found among us And what is the ground of all this Truely weake enough as hath been shewed in our discourse and here it is the suspicion of the Author for thus hee adds This is that wee cannot approve and yet wee suspect will follow from your judgement These things wee have thus briefly presented in one view not to dishonour the learned and reverend Author whose memory wee honour two things we charitably take notice of to remove over hard thoughts of him First wee consider his spirit might bee over grieved and provoked to this harshnesse by the withdrawings of many Christians from the Ordinances of God because dispensed according to the corrupt Liturgy in which cause he stood too farre ingaged and supposing New-England wayes the cause of it he was the more sharpe Secondly wee consider that this Reply was not intended by him to be published to the world but to be sent unto us and therefore he is in our hearts the lesse blamable But seeing these things are now published and the harshnesse thereof may do much hurt wee were pressed to cleare our selves wherein if any thing reflect upon the Author or Publishers wee cannot avoyd it Neither doe wee write thus as if wee would wholly justifie our selves and all the particular miscarriages that happily at one time or other in some Church or other may have happened we have much cause to humble our selves before our God and abase our selves to the dust before men for all the weakenesses sinnes errors and miscarriages that have beene found among us in one kind and another Onely this wee may professe before the Lord and his people that in the maine scope of our hearts and indeavours of our lives wee have sought after such a forme of worship and frame of discipline as we could conceive by the Word of God and the helpe of the best Reformers to bee according to the will of Christ not allowing our selves in any evill discovered unto us but bewayling our great defects in all Reply And here wee crave leave to put you in mind of what you have considered already That the Church and every member have entered into Covenant to take God for their God c. but wee never finde that they were called to give account of the worke of grace wrought in their soules or that the whole Congregation were to bee judge thereof You stand here all this day saith Moses before the Lord your God c. that thou shouldest enter into Covenant with the Lord thy God All that were borne in the wildernesse Joshua circumcised but it is uncredible to thinke there was none that did not give good testimony of the worke of grace c. Because it is a principall thing especially in the builders of the Church to know their materials and because the reverend and learned Author steps somewhat out of his way to call us to give answer in this controversie of such great weight especially in this present turne of times wee shall therefore gladly accept of this occasion to declare our selves with as much brevity as we may to the two branches of the question Qu. First Whether the members of the Church are called to give an account of the worke of grace at there admission thereunto Answ 1. Secondly Whether the whole Church is to be judge hereof Whether the members of the Church be called c. For answer to which wee shall expresse our selves in these particulars to prevent mistakes First that the question is not of what may keepe a Church already constituted from being accounted no Church
but of what is to bee required of such as joyne unto a Church for a Church may bee a true Church and yet be very corrupt as is generally observed by Protestant writers hoth out of the examples of some Churches in the New Teâ—â—ament and that of the Old in the great Apostasie thereof wee thinke in this same Doctor Fields expressions may be safely received Some professe Christ saith hee but not wholly and intirely as Heretiques some professe the whole saving truth but not in unity as Schismatiques some professe it in unty but not in sincerity as prophaine persons and Hypocrites some in unity and sincerity all these are partakers of the heavenly calling by profession of the truth and consequently in some degree and sort the Church c. But wee thinke that this is no argument that either Heretiques Schismatickes prophane persons or Hypocrites if convictively discovered that such are meet matter to be joyned to a Church Secondly when a worke of grace is required and desired of those who are to joyne to a Church the meaning is not as if wee allowed none to bee of the Church but reall Saints and such as give demonstrative evidence of being members of the invisible Church for we professe according to the Scripture and generall doctrine of all reformed Churches what ever their practise bee that it is not reall but visible faith not the inward being but the outward profession of faith whence men are called visible Saints that constitutes a visible Church which faith so professed is called visible not in the judgement of certainty from such infallible signes of it as may demonstrate the hidden being of it within but in the judgement of charity which hopes the best 1 Cor. 12 7 in the weakest Christian and meanest profession even when it sometimes feares the worst and is not able at the present to convince the contrary Thirdly this judgment of charity concerning the truth of anothers profession or that which is called the worke of grace is to be regulated by the word which Christ hath left as a compleat rule not onely of faith but also of love and charity to guide both in their acts unto their ends and hence large professions and long relations of the worke of grace though full of exceeding glory when humbly and prudently made wee exact not rigorously and necessarily of all because the rule of charity directs us not so to judge because many Christians may bee drawne to Christ and have a seed of faith yet may sometimes not know it sometimes remember not the working of it sometimes through bashfulnesse feare want of parts nor not trained up under a knowing Ministery not be able to professe it so fully and clearely hence also to keepe out others from Communion out of groundlesse feares that all their profession might bee in hypocrisie wee allow not because no man in his charity is to bee ruled by his feares but by the word hence also to account any unfit for the Church because their hearts cannot close with them or because they like not their spirits speake not with favour or any such like principles and yet can give no rule or convicting argument from the word why thus they doe we thinke is rigouâ— not charity regulated by the word for humane charity doth not make Gods Church but such persons which from God according to the rule of Gods charity is to receive and therefore the rule is to be attended here it is necessary to looke for a ground of certainty to faith but not for charity which cannot bee infallibly certaine of anothers estate and therefore upon a hopefull supposition that the premises their profession is true hopefully onely makes the conclusion The question â—eing brought to this narrow it will here lye viz. First Whether profession of the worke of grace and faith be not required of those that enter into the Church Secondly With what profession of the worke of grace charity according to a rule is to rest satisfied The first wee thinke is writ with the beames of the Sunne for it is evident that neither the Lord in the Old Testament Exod. 19. or in the New Testament Acts 2. and in other like Scriptures did call for a profession of the Doctrine of faith onely but especially of the worke of faith for when the Lord promised to be a God to his people Exd. 19. Deut. 29. it was not with this condition if they did beleeve his word to bee true c. but if they will heare his voyce and keepe his Covenant which in a prepared people is a manifestation of a worke of grace So when the Apostles were required to goe preach to all Nations and baptize them and teach them looke as they did require such a faith as was saving he that beleeveth shall bee saved so upon the profession thereof they did receive them as also appeares Acts 2. 38. which therefore could not bee of the doctrine of faith for that the devils doe and tremble and profane men of much knowledge may doe and yet unfit to bee received and therefore it was of the worke of faith and therefore Act. 8. 37. Philip not onely requires faith but a beleeving with all the heart of the Eunuch and upon such a profession baptized him and hence the Churches erected by the Apostles at Corinth Colosse Ephesus c. are called Saints and sanctified of God in Christ Jesus c. How was it because debito and de jure onely they should be so then all who heare the Gospell though they reject it might bee called a Church for de jure they ought to be so Or was it because there were some that were truely such amongst them and so in concreto are called a Church and body of Christ not onely so for there may be some visible Churches of visible Saints and yet none among them of the invisible Church unlesse any will thinke that to bee of the Church invisible is essentiall to the beeing and title of a visible Church and therefore it was from their profession of saving faith which they maintained being a Church as it was required to the gathering into a Church John Baptist also though hee baptized none into a new Church and therefore might require the lesse yet as he really promised remission of sinnes by the Messiah so hee required that very faith and repentance which might make them partakers of this heavenly benefit and therefore if what hee required they manifested by their profession and confession of sinnes it was not onely to beleeve the doctrine of faith but a saving worke of faith which they held forth And therefore it is not an outward profession of faith according to a Creed which is required for then a Papist is fit matter for a Church nor willingnesse to heare the Word and receive the Sacraments for then heapes of prophane persons are to bee received into the Church but it 's profession of a worke and saving worke
If they bee to receive them they must by some meanes know them to bee such as they may comfortably receive into their affections a little leaven leavening the whole lumpe 1 Cor. 5. 3 The Officers of the Church who are first privately to examine them and prepare them for admission are to shew the Church the rule on which the Church is to receive them and themselves are ready to admit them Act. 10. 37. Can any forbid water c. This rule was best seene by that publike profession before the whole Church and if no just exception bee made as one should bee without conviction they are to be admitted by the Officers with the consent of the members hereunto for if publike profession is needfull at least before the Church though not the world alway as Didoclavius observes to the entrance into the Covenant and Church by baptisme wee see no reason but persons formerly baptized and entering a new into the Church but they should openly professe their faith againe the visible Church being built upon this rocke Matth. 16. 16 18. viz. Profession of the faith of Christ and lastly if there should be no necessity for such a profession yet if this bee desired of the people of God for the increase of their owne joy to see God glorified and Christs name professed and his vertues held forth and for the increase of their love to those that joyne with them why should it not be done before Saints which should bee done before persecutors 1 Pet. 3. 15. What is now said we thinke sufficient to undermine what is opposed herein by others and may easily give answer to the three arguments of the learned Authour from the example of the Church of Israel John Baptist and the Apostles and so cleare up our practise and judgement to the world from the aspersion of our rigidum examen for which we are by some condemned but for further clearing we shall answer to the particulars Now to your Reasons more particularly against this from the Old Testament and the manner of entring and renewing Covenant then Answ Wee answer first when as you say they professing the Covenant promised to take God for their God to keepe the words of the Covenant and doe them to seek the Lord with all their hearts to walke before him in truth and uprightnes this implyeth a profession of a worke of grace Secondly They did not immediately enter into Covenant but the Lord was long before preparing them for it for they were humbled much in Egypt in so much as their sighings came up to God Exod. 2. 23 24 25. They had seene the glory of God for their good against Pharaoh and all that Land by many miracles they had Gods visible presence in the Cloud were instructed by Moses concerning the Covenant of grace made with them in Abraham they were mightily delivered at the Red Sea so that they beleeved Moses and feared the Lord and sang his praise Exod. 14. 31. Psalme 106. 12. They were also instructed againe concerning the Covenant and were to sanctifie themselves three dayes legally which was for spirituall ends and of spirituall use Exod. 19. 10. and thus being prepared as fit matter for Covenant they then entered thereinto And they were all of them for ought we know thus externally and ecclesiastically holy though many were internally stiffe-necked blind and prophane And for our parts we desire no more then such a preparation in some worke of grace if appearing though not indeed reall as may make way for Church Covenant among a people now as we see was then Reply When John Baptist began to preach the Gospell and gather a new people for Christ he admitted none but upon confession of their sinnes but we read of no question that hee put forth to them to discover the worke of grace in their soules or repelled any upon that pretence that voluntarily submitted themselves Answ Though the Scripture record such things very briefly else the world would not have contained the Bookes that must have been written as John speaketh yet he that advisedly considers the case may see the profession of a work of grace in all that were received by John to his baptisme First John was sent with the Spirit and power of Elias to turne the hearts of the fathers c. to cast down every high hill c. Secondly His baptisme is called the baptisme of repentance for the remission of sinnes Mark 1. 4. Thirdly confession of sins is ever put for true repentance when there is a promise of pardon made to it Prov. 28. 13. 1 John 1. 9. and therefore when he requires confession of sins was it without remorse or sorrow for it was it not with profession of faith in the Messiah which he pointed unto Joh. 1. 29. and required with repentance Act. 19. 4. Fourthly did not hee fall upon the Pharisees with dreadfull thundering of Gods judgements for comming to his baptisme without conversion of heart and fruits meet for repentance Mat. 3. 7. and this Luke saith hee preached to the multitude Luke 3. 7. and whether any were received that embraced not that Doctrine and shewed the same in their confession viz. that their hearts were humbled and that the renounced their high thoughts of their priviledges of the Law c. and professed amendment fruits meet for the same it will be hard for any to prove and thus much is evident on the contrary that Pharesees Lawyers distinguished from the People and Publicans rejected the counsell of God in not being baptized of him and what counsell but that wholesome doctrine of John Luke 7. 29 30 Lay all these together and let any whose thoughts are not prepossessed with prejudice say whether this confession was not such a profession of faith and repentance which a discerning charity ought to take for a worke of grace Replâ— It appeares many wayes that when the Apostles planted Churches they made a Covenant betweene God and the people whom they received But they received men upon the profession of faith and promise of â—mendment of life without strict inquiry what worke of grace was wrought in the soule so in after ages c. Now the profession at first required of all that were received to baptisme was that they beleeved in the Father Sonne and holy Ghost This was the confession of the Eunuch when he was baptized I beleeve that Jesus Christ is the Son of God Answ Wee cannot but observe how still the evidence of the truth of what wee proved in the third and fourth positions breakes out at every turne when the heat of that disputation doth not hinder for if the Apostles planted Churches and made a Covenant betweene God and the people when they baptized them as the proofes for this Act. 2. 38. and 8. 37. and 19. 17 18 19. alledged in the margent shew then still it appeares they admitted men into planted Churches when they baptized them and the â—efore the