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A65422 Popery anatomized, or, A learned, pious, and elaborat treatise wherein many of the greatest and weightiest points of controversie, between us and papists, are handled, and the truth of our doctrine clearly proved : and the falshood of their religion and doctrine anatomized, and laid open, and most evidently convicted and confuted by Scripture, fathers, and also by some of their own popes, doctors, cardinals, and of their own writers : in answer to M. Gilbert Brown, priest / by that learned, singularly pious, and eminently faithful servant of Jesus Christ M. John Welsch ...; Reply against Mr. Gilbert Browne, priest Welch, John, 1568?-1622.; Craford, Matthew. Brief discovery of the bloody, rebellious and treasonable principles and practises of papists. 1672 (1672) Wing W1312; ESTC R38526 397,536 586

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holy Ghost therefore who was the giver and preserver of it And as for the ceremony it was a sign of the presence of Gods Spirit in them who was lawfully ordained Now as to the second that ye will have it a Sacrament because it hath an external form and also a promise of grace That will not follow For then you should have innumerable Sacraments For prayer alms-deeds and the ordination of Magistrats and many others have external forms and have promises of grace joyned with them and yet you will not say that they are properly Sacraments For in all the Sacraments of the New Testament which properly are Sacraments there must be first not only an external action but an earthly and visible element as water in Baptism and bread and wine in the Supper And therefore Augustin saith in Joan. tract 90. Let the word be joyned with the element and then it is a Sacrament Secondly they must have their express warrant and institution from Jesus Christ in the Scripture as Baptism hath Matth. 28. and the Lords Supper Matth. 26. Thirdly they must not only have a promise of grace but a promise of remission of sins and sanctification For they must be seals of that Covenant which is common to all Christians as Baptism and the Lords Supper is But this ceremony of imposition of hands wants all these three For neither is there any earthly element neither seals it up the Covenant which is common to all but proper to the Ministery only neither hath it the express institution of Christ in all the four Evangelists And whereas in the 20. of John he there ordains his Apostles we read he breathed on them and said Receive the holy Ghost But not a word that he laid his hands on them or commanded them to use it to others The which without all question he would have done if he had ordained it to be a Sacrament And Petrus a Soto a Papist saith That the making of the imposition of hands to be a Sacrament is a tradition Therefore it is not a Sacrament properly of the New Testament Secondly if the ordination of any by imposition of hands were a Sacrament the ordination of a Bishop by the same especially should be a Sacrament For the place which ye quote here is of Timothy who was a Bishop as your Church affirms And Bellarmin saith de Sacramento ordinis lib. 1. cap. 5. If this be not a Sacrament then it cannot be proved by the Scripture that ordination by imposition of hands is a Sacrament And he saith If this be not granted they will lose all the testimonies of the Ancients to prove imposition of hands to be a Sacrament for they speak of the ordination of Bishops But the ancient Schollers and Doctors of your own Church in 4. dist 24. and Dominicus a Soto a learned Papist lib. 10. de justitia jure qu. 1. art 2. affirms That this is not a Sacrament properly and so neither the ordination of the rest of the Ministery can be a Sacrament seeing a Bishop is above the rest in your order Last of all the Council of Trent sess 23. cap. 2. 3. is not against it and sundry of the rest of your Clergy Bellarm. lib. 1. de sacr ord cap. 9. makes all the seven Orders of your Church as Priests which you distinguish in two sorts to wit in Bishops and inferior Priests Deacons Sub-Deacons Exorcists Lectors Door-keepers and your Acoluthyts every one of them by themselves Sacraments And your Master of Sentences lib 4 dist 24. cap. Si autem calls all the Orders in the plural number Sacraments So if ye durst let the people know the secret of this your doctrine ye make not only seven Sacraments but fourteen in very deed But this were dangerous to you to sowe abroad For you fear it would cast your doctrine in some suspicion with them and be an occasion to them to examine it by the Scripture the which if they would once begin to do ye know your hope were lost As for Calvin and Melancthon they call it a Sacrament taking the word in an ample sense for these ceremonies that have the foundation in the Word which have a promise of a blessing joyned with them and not in that sense that Baptism and the Lords Supper are called Sacraments as Calvin in that first place which ye quote plainly acknowledgeth For these are his words Let the Christian Church saith he be content of these meaning of Baptism and the Supper and let them not admit nor acknowledge desire or look for any other third Sacrament till the end of the world And as for imposition of hands which the Church useth in their ordinations he saith I will not be against it that it be called a Sacrament so being I reckon it not among the ordinary Sacraments And Melancthon in that same place reckons up prayer alms marriage the Magistrat in the number of these unto the which he gives this name of a Sacrament whereby he makes it plain that he takes this word Sacrament amply and largely as hath been said before and not in that sense that Baptism and the Supper is called Sacraments So you play your self M. Gilbert in the ambiguity of this word Sacrament and deceives the Reader with the same And whereas ye call your Priests the only lawful Ministers now adays I will answer to this more fully afterward only this now First seeing the fountain and ground upon the which all the lawful callings in your Church depends and is derived as your selves confess is the supremacy of your Pope whom I have proved to be the Antichrist in my other Treatise and seeing the office of your Priesthood in sacrificing the Son of God as ye suppose is most abominable idolatrous and Antichristian as I have proved also there therefore you are not only not lawful Ministers of Christ but the Ministers of Antichrist And as for the style of Priest I answered it before it is not so much as once ascribed to the Ministers of the Gospel to signifie their proper calling in the whole New Testament SECTION XVI Concerning Matrimony and whither it be a Sacrament Master Gilbert Brown EIghtly our doctrine is that Matrimony is a bond undissoluble because our Savior saith That which God hath joyned together let no man separat Matth 19.6 And such like he saith That whosoever demits his wife and marries another commits adultery upon her Mark 10.11.12 And in S. Luke 16.18 we have the same And S. Matthew 5.35 19.9 is of the same opinion albeit one may put away his wife by him for fornication this is the doctrine also of the Apostles of Jesus Christ for it is written in S. Paul That a woman that is under a husband her husband living is bound to the law but if her husband be dead she is loosed from the law of her husband Therefore her husband living she shal be called an adulteress if she be with another man
third he permits one to have two wives if the first be sickly decret causa 32. quaest 7. cap. Quod proposuisti contrary both to the Gospel Matth. 19. and to another decreet of the Canon Law Decretal lib. 4. tit 9. cap. Quoniam Pope Nicolas saith Dist 40. cap. A quodam Judaeo that that Baptism which is ministred without express mention of the three persons of the Trinity is firm and sure enough But Pope Zacharie Dist eadem de consecrat cap. In Synodo hath decreed the contrary All these decreets are set down in their Canon Law and hath the strength of a law in the Roman Church not as privat mens but as Popes decreets And yet some of them are directly repugnant to the Word of God that themselves cannot deny but they are heresies and some of them so directly repugnant to the decreets of other Popes that either the one or the other must be heresie But it may be ye will answer that suppose the Pope may err as he is Pope and that in matters of doctrine yet he cannot err with his Council either Provincial or General as Bellarmin saith Whereunto I answer first if General Councils lawfully conveaned together may err in matters of doctrine unless they be confirmed by the Pope as Bellarmin grants and if the Popes may err themselves alone and that judicially in matters of doctrine as hath been proved why may they not err also being joyned together seeing Councils have this priviledge only by his confirmation and allowance As Bellarmin saith lib. 4. de Rom. Pontif. cap. 3. Secondly I say either Pope Steven the 6. with his Council erred in condemning of Formosus and his acts which he made as Pope and in decreeing his ordinations to be void and null because the man was wicked by whom they were ordained Sigebert in Chron. which is an error of the Donatists or else Pope John the 9. with his Council of 72. Bishops erred in justifying Formosus and his decreets and condemning the acts of Pope Steven with his Council Last of all since General Councils that have been confirmed by their Popes have erred the sixth General Council confirmed by Pope Hadrian in epist. ad Thracium quae est in 2. actione 7. Syn. Canon 2. hath sundry errors which they themselves will not defend as the rebaptizing of hereticks For the counsel of Cyprian is confirmed there wherein this is decreeted And also it is ordained Canon 13. that Elders Deacons Subdeacons should not separat from their wives contrary to the Canon of the Roman Church as is said there And the marriage of Catholicks and Hereticks is judged null and voyd Canon 67. which your self cannot deny to be an error contrary to the express truth of God 1. Cor. 7.13 And the forbidding of Ministers to remain with their wives Canon 12. contrary to the sixth Canon of the Apostles Either therefore a General Council confirmed by a Pope hath erred or else the Apostles have erred in this Canon for they judge them to be the Canons of the Apostles The first General Council of Constantinople and the General Council of Chalcedon which are both by their own confession approved by the Popes Bellarm lib. 1. de Concilijs cap. 5. And yet both these have decreeed that the Bishop of Constantinople should have equal priviledges of authority honor and dignity in Ecclesiastical affaires with the Bishop of Rome except only the first place or seat the which by their own confession is an error Therefore either lawful General Councils confirmed by the Pope have erred or else the Pope is not the head of the Church and hath not a preeminence of authority over the rest for they have made the Bishop of Constantinople equal with him or else there are two heads of thier Church the Bishop of Rome and the Bishop of Constantinople I omit the rest Augustin saith de baptismo contra Donatistas lib. 2. cap. 3. That Provincial Councils may be corrected by General Councils and of General Councils the former may be amended by the latter If they may be mended then they may err And here he speaks not of a matter of fact but of a matter of faith For he speaks of the baptism of hereticks Now to conclud seeing the Churches in all ages before the Law in the time of the Law and in the time of grace yea and the Apostles and Peter himself have erred and seeing the Church of Rome that claims this priviledge of not erring above all other Churches hath erred also and that not only her people which they call Laicks but also her Clergy severally and together in Councils as well Provincial as General And seeing the head which as they say is the Rock and foundation of the Church hath erred in life in Office in matters of Faith and Religion not as privat men only but as Popes both by themselves alone as also with their Councils as well Provincial as General Seeing I hope I have proved all these things sufficiently then may I not with the judgement of all men safely conclud that that main pillar whereupon the whole weight and pillar of your Religion depends that the Church cannot err that it is an error and such a dangerous and damnable error whereupon all the errors of your Religion is built that whosoever will believe it they hazard the endless salvation of their souls Ground then Christian Reader thy salvation not upon this that the Church cannot err for that is false but upon this that as long as she sticks to the Word of God written in the Old and New Testament she errs not and when she swerves and it were but an inch broad from the Scripture then she errs And therefore two learned Papists Gerson de examinat part 1. consid 5. and Panorm affirms the one saith Simplici non authorizato sed excellenter in sacris literis erudito c. that is that more credit is to be given to one unlearned and simple but yet excellently beseen in the holy Writ in a point of doctrine then to the Pope And such a learned man saith he ought to oppone himself to a General Council if he perceive the greater part to decline to the contrary of the Gospel either of malice or of ignorance The other saith extra de elect cap. Significasti That more credit is to be given to an unlearned and simple man that brings for him the Scripture then to a whole General Council And this for answer to the testimonies of Scripture which ye cited Now as concerning the Fathers testimonies which ye bring in they will serve you no further then the Scripture hath done For they will go no further with you then this that the Church of Christ and his covenant with her shal endure for ever the which we grant and they that will read them will find them so And if ye prove any further out of them it shal be answered by Gods grace For it were too fashous to the
as far in word as ye do in deed the consciences of the poor people would at the last withdraw themselves from under your tyranny and would go out of your fellowship for the safety of their souls so under the cloke and pretence of the Scripture ye keep them in your communion And surelie were not for this cause only you would regard no more of the testimony of the Scripture then of the testimony of the fables of Esop For the chief authority and all the surety and certainty of all Religion with you as Bellarmin de sacr lib. 2. cap. 25. and Stapleton lib. 1. cont Whitaker cap. 10. confesses is not the testimony of the Scripture but the authority of your own Church So I assure thee Reader it is but for a show that they bring forth the Scripture to prove the heads of their Religion Let the matter therefore be tryed betwixt us by these examples which ye set down here M. Gilbert Brown 1. We say with Saint Augustin Epist 28. ad Hier. that the Sacrament of Baptism is so necessary to infants that they cannot come to heaven without the same which is contrary to their negative saith where they call it the Popes cruel judgement against infants departing without the Sacrament First I say that Christ taught the same doctrine in these words Except a man be born again of water and of the Spirit he cannot enter in the Kingdom of God John 3.5 We say this is spoken properly of the Sacrament of Baptism because there is no regeneration of water and the Spirit of God but in Baptism The same is the doctrine of the Apostles also When they exspected the patience of God saith S. Peter in the days of Noe when the Ark was building in the which few that is eight souls were saved by water whereunto Baptism being of the like form now saves you also 1. Pet. 3.20.21 And S. Paul saith For as many of you as are baptized in Christ have put on Christ Galat 3.27 And Ananias said to S. Paul And now what tarriest thou rise up and be baptized and wash away thy sins invocating his name Acts 22.17 and 2.38 And S. Paul himself in another place Christ hath saved us by the washing of regeneration and renovation of the holy Ghost Tit. 3.5 Rom. 6.3.4 1. Cor. 6.11 Mark 16.16 I think there is no Christian reader that sees these places but he must say that Baptism is most necessary to infants except he will believe rather the exposition of the Ministers then the Word of God Maister John Welsch his Reply First ye begin at the necessity of the Sacrament of Baptism whereof ye affirm that it is so necessary that infants cannot come to heaven without the same As for Baptism we grant that it is a most effectual seal and pledge of our ingrafting in Christ Jesus and of the remission of our sins through his blood and regeneration through his Spirit so that either the neglect or the contempt of it because it is the neglect and contempt of the covenant it self and of Christ Jesus the foundation of the covenant is damnable But that it is so absolutly necessary to infants that without it they cannot come to heaven to wit these whom he hath predestinat it being neither neglected nor contemned but death preventing the receiving of it that we allutterly deny as impious ungodly and cruel For first I say there is none that is in the covenant of grace and who hath God to be their God and are holy that can perish This you cannot deny But the children of the faithful who are of his secret election are such before they be baptized And this I prove The Lord promised to Abraham I will be thy God and the God of thy seed Gen. 17.17 And this Peter also testifies The promise saith he is made to you and to your children Acts 2.39 And the Apostle saith That the children of the faithful are holy 1. Cor. 7.14 Therefore the children of the faithful who are of Gods secret election suppose they die without Baptism do not perish Secondlie if Baptism were absolutly necessary to salvation then the grace of God were bound to the Sacrament This cannot be denyed But your Master of Sentences saith that the grace of God is not bound to the Sacraments and it is impious so to think that Gods free grace and salvation is bound to the instrument Thirdlie if Circumcision was not absolutly necessary to salvation in the Old Testament then Baptism is not absolutly necessary now because Circumcision was as straitly enjoyned to them as Baptism is enjoyned to us and Baptism is suceeded in the room of the same but Circumcision is not absolutly necessarie For Lombardus is rebuked by the Doctors of Paris because he so thought And David doubts not to say of his child who died the seventh day and so before he was circumcised I shal go to him c. and so he pronounced that he was saved and all the time that they were in the wilderness almost 40 years Circumcision was neglected which plainly shows that it was not so absolutly necessary that salvation could not be obtained without it Therefore Baptism is not so absolutly necessary to salvation as ye suppose for the grace of God is of no less force in the New Testament then it was in the Old Fourthlie we read of sundry that received the holy Ghost before they were baptized and seeing the holy Ghost where he is regenerats to eternal life Therefore life eternal is not bound absolutly to Baptism Fifthlie what a cross and disturbance is this that your doctrine brings to the consciences of all these parents whose children have been prevented by death before they could be offered to be baptized If they believe your doctrine how often will this come in their mind that their children are damned And seeing the infants themselves are not in the cause that they are not baptized but their death preventing by Gods providence or the Parents neglecting or contemning the same or persecution or one impediment or other hindering wherefore are ye so cruel to judge them to be damned for that whereof themselves are causeless And last of all if ye be acquainted in the Histories of the Church of God in the first age ye will find many that delayed to be baptized until their latter age which they would never have done if they had thought it simpliciter necessary to salvation as ye do And Ambrosius doubts not to say That Valentinian wanted not the grace of Baptism suppose he wanted Baptism it self the which he would never have said if he had thought it absolutly necessary to salvation And Bernard saith I cannot altogether despair of the salvation of them who wants Baptism not through contempt but only through impossibility to get it And in that same place he saith So also if our Savior Christ for this cause when he had said he that believeth and is baptized shal be saved did