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A63637 The true Protestant religion set forth by way of dialogue discovering the idolatries and abominations professed and taught in the Church of Rome / by a Presbyter of the Church of England. Presbyter of the Church of England. 1683 (1683) Wing T2864; ESTC R4661 28,790 38

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pray Sir what do we Protestants hold concerning the Law Father We hold that the moral Law commands the perfection of Godliness and Righteousness and directs us in our duties to God and Man Ye shall observe to do therefore as the Lord your God hath commanded you you shall not turn aside to the right hand or to the left Deut. 5.32 Child I pray Sir proceed now to the Commandments in particular as they were delivered by Moses and shew me first what we Protestants teach and then what the Church of Rome teaches concerning them Father I shall do it readily The first Commandment is Thou shalt have no other Gods before me and our Protestant Doctors teach that this Jehovah one in Substance and three in Persons the Creator and Governour of all things and the Redeemer of his People is to be entertained for the only true God in all the powers of the Soul and so Christ opens it Matt. 22.37 Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy Heart and with all thy Soul and with all thy Mind Child Doth not the Church of Rome expound it so Father No. The Church of Rome teaches to make more Gods than one they pray to the Saints whereby they make them Gods in giving this Divine Property unto them to know the Heart They call the Virgin Mary Queen of Heaven and say she is a Goddess and pray to her to command her Son to help them Nay they make the Pope a God they call him Our Lord God the Pope and they are more careful to obey his commands than the commands of God Child What is the meaning of the second Command Thou shalt not make to thy self any graven Image nor any Likeness of things in Heaven c. Father The meaning of this Commandment is to bind all men to that solemn Form of religious Worship which God himself in his Word prescribeth that we serve him not according to our Fancies but according to his Will What thing soever I command you observe to do it thou shalt not add thereto nor diminish from it Deut. 12.32 Child How do the Papists expound this Command Father They leave it quite out of their Catechisms because 't is so plain against their Image-worship and they divide the tenth into two to make up the number Child What Worship do they give to Images Father The same Worship they give to those whose Image it is as they worship the holy Trinity and Christ so they worship the Images of the Trinity and of Christ Child Did not the Heathens thus worship their Images Father Yes The Papists say they worship their Images with a relative Worship and so did the Heathens and indeed an Image cannot be worshipped with any other Worship Nor does the commandment forbid any other Worship for it is a contradiction to say this is the Image of God and yet this is God and therefore it must be also a contradiction to worship an Image with any other Worship for then it must be that the Image of a thing is that thing whose Image it is But they go yet a little farther the Image of the Cross they worship with divine Honour and though this divine Worship is but relative yet the Cross it self is worshipped terminatively with divine Adoration now if this be not Idolatry I can never be told what is the notion of the word If there can be Idolatry in the Worship of an Image it is certain that a relative divine Worship is this Idolatry for no man that worships an Image can make the Image the last Object either therefore the Heathens were not Idolaters in the worshiping of an Image or else these men are Child What is the sum of the third Command Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord c. Father The Sum of this Command is That we impeach not but by all means advance the glorious name of God in all things whereby he maketh himself known to men Give unto the Lord the Glory due unto his Name worship the Lord in the beauty of Holiness Psal 29.2 Child How do the Papists keep this Command Father They teach that 't is lawful to swear by the Saints and in their common talk they cry out O Lord O Jesu They use the Word Jesu thirty times together and this they take for a peice of Devotion And the Pope dispenseth with all Oaths at his pleasure and teaches that Faith is not to be kept with Hereticks Child What is the meaning of the fourth Command Remember to keep holy the Sabbath day Father It challengeth at the hand of every man one day of seven in every Week and requireth all Persons to separate themselves from their ordinary Labour and all other Exercises that they may attend to the worship of God only Child How do the Papists expound this Command Father They make the Popes Holy dayes equal with the Lords Sabbath and they are more zealous for the Observation of them for they will be sure to keep them but the Sabbath they usually spend in playing at Cards Dice and Tables Child What is the meaning of the fifth Command Honour thy Father and thy Mother c. Father That the Quality of mens Persons and Places in what Estate soever Natural Civil or Ecclesiastical be truly acknowledged and respected for it requires the Performance of all such Duties as one man oweth unto another Render to all their dues Tribute to whom Tribute is due Custom to whom Custom Fear to whom Fear Honour to whom honour Rom. 13.7 Child How do the Papists keep this Commandment Father They disannul it in giving freedom and immunity to to their Clergy from subjection to Civil Authority and in dispensing with Subjects for their Loyalty and Allegiance to their Lawful Princes and with Children and Servants from yielding due help service and obedience to their Parents and Masters Child What is the summe and meaning of the sixth Commandment Thou shalt not murder Father That the Life and Person of man be by man not impeached but preserved Surely the Bloud of your Lives will I require At the hand of every mans Brother will I require the Life of man Gen. 9.5 Child How do the Papists keep this Commandment Father They have Houses of Refuge which they call Sanctuaries wherein Murderers live in Safety They hold it meritorious to poyson or stab any man for the advancement of the Catholick Cause and 't is a Position with them though a damnable one That Princes excommunicate by the Pope may be murdered by their Subjects Child What is the meaning of the seventh Commandment Thou shalt not commit Adultery Father That all Uncleanness and Impurity be avoided and Chastity by all means preserved Having these Promises let us cleanse our selves from all filthiness of the Flesh and Spirit perfecting holiness in the Fear of God 2 Cor. 7.1 Child How do the Papists keep this Command Father They give Divorces for Marriages in the fourth degree and
the end of every tenth they drop in the Lord's Prayer and this with the Creed at the end of the fifty makes a perfect Rosary They have also the Psalter of Jesus in which are fifteen short Ejaculations as Have Mercy on me strengthen me help me comfort me c. And with every one of these the name of Jesus is to be said thirty times that is in all four hundred and fifty times Now this we think the Lord Christ plainly forbids Math. 5.7 8. When you pray use not vain Repetitions as the Heathens do for they think that they shall be heard by their much speaking be not ye therefore like unto them The Heathens thought to be heard for their much speaking and if the people of the Roman Church do not think so there is no reason why they should do so Child Is there any thing else they teach concerning Prayers Father Yes They teach the People to pray in Latin though they understand it not and tell them 't is sufficient that God understands it and all their publick Prayers are in Latine of which the People understand not one word contrary to Scripture and the practice of the Primitive Church If I pray in an unknown Tongue my Spirit prayeth but my understanding is unfruitful What is it then I will pray with the Spirit and I will pray with Understanding also else when thou shalt bless with the Spirit how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of Thanks seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest 1 Cor. 14 15 16. Child But what do they do at Mass if they do not understand the Prayers Father Truly Child I know not I was never there to see but I have been told that some talk one with another others look about them but they that would seem to be devout kneel down and say their Ave-maries according to their Beads And this is agreeable to their Doctrine for the Precept of hearing Mass is not to intend the words but to be present at the Sacrifice though the words be not so much as heard and their Doctors say 't is enough if their Bodies be present at their greatest Solemnities though they hear nothing that is spoken and understand as little Child This is wonderful strange to me that Christians should be taught to pray as Parots are to speak such Prayers certainly are not for God who searches the Heart To whom do they usually pray and direct such dead Prayers Father They pray to dead Men and Women who are or whom they suppose to be beatified and those they invocate as Preservers Helpers Guardians Deliverers in their Necessity and they expressly call them their Refuge their Guard and Defence their Life and Health which is so formidable a Devotion that we for them and for our selves too if we should imitate them are to dread the words of the Prophet Jer. 17.5 Cursed be the man that trusteth in man and maketh Flesh his Arm and whose Heart departeth from the Lord. Child But to whom do they chiefly pray Father To the Virgin Mary to their Angel-guardian and to the Saints upon several Occasions and yet the Lord Christ says when you pray say our Father Luc. 11.2 Child How do they pray to the Virgin Mary Father They have many Prayers and Littanies to the Virgin Mary and there is a Psalter of our Lady of great account in the Church of Rome which is nothing but the Psalms of David in which the name of Lord is left out and that of Lady put in so that whatever David said of God and Christ the same Prayers and the same Praises they say of the Virgin Mary and whether all that can be said without intollerable Blasphemy I suppose needs little Disputation Child But I pray Sir what Prayers do they present to the Virgin Mary Father They have many Prayers to the Virgin such as these O generous Mary beautious above all obtain Pardon for us apply Grace unto us prepare Glory for us Hail thou Rose thou Virgin Mary c. grant to us to use true Wisdom and with the Elect to enjoy Grace that we may with Melody praise thee and do thou drive our Sins away O Virgin Mary give us Joys These and divers others like these are in the Anthem of our Lady but the ordinary Prayer is this Hail Mary full of Grace our Lord is with thee blessed art thou above all Women and blessed is the Fruit of thy Womb Jesus Holy Mary Mother of God pray for us Sinners now and at the hour of our Death Amen Child What Reasons do they alledge for this Father The Reasons they give are more absurd than the Prayers themselves They say that Christ is not our Advocate alone but a Judge and since the Just are scarce secure how shall a Sinner go to him as to an Advocate Therefore God hath provided us of an Advocatess who is gentle and sweet in whom nothing that is sharp is to be found And to those words of St. Paul Come boldly to the Throne of Grace they say that Mary is the Throne of Grace in whom he rested to her therefore let us come with Boldness that we may obtain Mercy and find grace in time of need They say also that Mary is call'd full of Grace because she is the Means and Cause of Grace by transfusing Grace to Mankind nay they go higher yet Pope Leo the Tenth calls her a Goddess and the Jesuits say that she is the Companion or Partner of the divine Majesty and Power to her God long since gave the Principallity of all heavenly and mortal things so far as the Guardianship of men requires she rules at her Will the Earth and Seas Heaven and Nature and she consenting he gives divine Treasures and coelestial Gifts Nay in some of their Mass-books they call the Virgin Mary the way to Life the Governess of all the World the Reconciler of Sinners with God the Fountain of Remission of Sins Light of Light and at last salute her with an Ave universae Trinitatis Mater Hail thou Mother of the whole Trinity Child I beseech you no more of these Blasphemies I think no Christian Ear can hear them with Patience I am sure the Lord Christ gives no such Titles to the Virgin but rather reproves her Woman what have I to do with thee mine Hour is not come John 2.4 And calls his Disciples his Mother and his Brethren Who is my Mother and who are my Brethren And he stretched forth his hand towards his Disciples and said Behold my Mother and my Brethren for whosoever shall do the Will of my Father which is in Heaven the same is my Brother and Sister and Mother Matt. 12.49 50. But I pray proceed do they pray to the Angels also Father Yes To their Angel-guardian they use this Prayer Blessed Angel To whose Care and Custody our loving Creator hath committed me defend me this day I beseech you from all Dangers