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A19857 A suruey of certaine dialogical discourses: vvritten by Iohn Deacon, and Iohn Walker, concerning the doctrine of the possession and dispossession of diuels VVherein is manifested the palpable ignorance and dangerous errors of the discoursers, and what according to proportion of God his truth, every christian is to hold in these poyntes. Published by Iohn Darrell minister of the gospell. Darrel, John, b. ca. 1562. 1602 (1602) STC 6285; ESTC S109295 85,966 179

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I will enter a d yet doth not enter essentially doth it therevpon follow that al●o diuels where it is said they doe enter should not enter essentially Is there the like reason of the infinite an● of fin●e spirits God being euery where cannot be sai●e to enter but figuratiuely but in the creature which entreth by chaunging p●ace it is alwaies proper except we can shew necessary reason to the contrary By as good cōsequence you might proue that Aar●n the high preist neuer entred into the tabernacle of the congregation essentia●y The Lord commaunded the Israelites to make a tab r●acle for him Exod 2● 5 p●al ● 7.9 that he might dwel amongst them And Dauid willeth the euerlasting d ores to lift vp their heads that the king of glory might ●ter in but ●ay you the King of glory did neuer enter in essentially and therefore where it it is said that A●ron went into the tabernacle it is by your leaden rule to be taken that he went not in corporally Such foolery if it might be suffered wold make the scripture a nose of wax if men might reiect the letter vpon euery such absurd fancy It irkes me to spend time in reproouinge such dotage But you say Sathans entring into Iudas Ioh. 13.27 which is the same manner of speach is nothing else but that Sathan did darte or thrust the treason into his heart I reply as before Iudas was not a Demoniack and therefore this example fittes not the purpose It is not necessary the same speach in suggestion and possession should import the same thing it being proper to the one and figuratiue to the other But if you can shew vs a possession which was effected by darting only cogitations into the heart we will yeald vnto you that these wordes of entring dwelling imply no reall inbeeing This is in effect that you say These words entring into Ioh. 13.27 ●e not to be vnderstood literally therefore in the Scriptures concerning Demoniacks the said wordes are not to be vnderstood literally By this reason Christ entred not into Capernaum as it is said he did Math. 8.5 Neither entred he in to a ship as it is said Math. 8.13 Neither entred Mary into the house of Zacharias as it is writtten Luk. 1.40 But some spiritual and mistical thing is in these places to be vnderstood by the words entred into for to make this an argument you must haue this for your proposition These words entring into whersoeuer they be foūd in Scripture are not to be construed accordinge to the letter Now this proposition I will be so bould as to deny and put you to the proofe thereof in your next learned Discourse You goe on further in your answer thus Wheresoeuer the Scriptures speake of the diuel his e●tring in Answ. page 15. and 21. going out of the parties possessed they speake it only by Metaph●re And this you proue by Mark. 1.23 which place you shew at large cannot be taken in the li●erall sence Answ pa. 17 How Marke 123 is to be expounded it is euident by comparing it with Lu●e 4 ●3 with acts 19 16. As also by conferring Mark 5 2. with Luke 8.27 Ioh. 10 15 Luke 13 32 2 Tim. 4.17 After this manner indeed you argue One place of Scripture concerning Demoniacks viz. Mark 1.23 can n●t be taken in the literall sence but metaph●ricallie therefore no scripture concerning Demoniacks Shall I instead of further reply proceede to reason after your manner Thus then will I reason Diuers places of Scripture concerning Christ can not be vnderstood literally but metaphorically therfore none Or thus Christ is said to be a dore a vine ergo Christ was not borne of a virgine crucified c. H rod was a * fox therefore not a king Nero a * lyon therefore not a man But supposing these wordes of entring in and going out wheresoeuer in holy scripture they haue relation to the diuel were not to be vnderstood literally are they therefore to be taken metaphoricallie as euery where you tell vs No verily There were a plain● metonymie of the effect and not a metaphore And considering you vse the worde effectiuely so often and that you say oft that this going out pag ●6 and entring in of the diuel must be vnderstood of an effectuall and powerfull operation me thinkes if you were so great clarkes as you seeme to your selues to some poore soules in the world you should one time or other haue be thought you of this error which a scholler at the grāmer schole would quickly correct If you will needes haue here a metaphore I pray you let it hereafter be made to appeare with his protasis and apodosis that so we may conceaue this hidden metaphor But Orthod xus leaueth not heere And this I say further Aut. pag 15 quoth he that you can not possibly alleadg throughout the whole Scriptures any one text wherein either Angels or Spirits or diuels are otherwise spoken of then only by metaph re VVhat Is euery Scripture of this kinde metaphoricall why you your selues doe tell vs that where in Luk. 4.35 a man is said to haue a spirit of an vnclean diuel that by spirit we must vnderstande the impulsion motion or inspiration of the spirit Answere pag 20 21 According to which sence say you the word spirit is vsualy obserued both in th● olde a●d new testament And for confirmation thereof you alleadg Dan. 4.5.6 5.11 12. Reu. 16.24 In these places then there is a metonymie as euerie boy can tell you and not a metaphor Ioh 15 2● Againe where Sathan is said to enter into Iudas that is suggest or thrust the intended treason into him another text alleadged expounded by your selfes who ●e●th not that this is spoken metonimice and not metaphoric In the fift of the Actes it is said of ●annias that satan filled his heart This filling say you in page 48 was effectiuely Here then likewise is a m●tonymie wel metonymie or metaphore or whatsoeuer ●t is this they are very sure of that it is not possible to shew any one place of scripture wherein that which is spoken of Angels or diuels is to be interpreted literallie No VVhat say you to Heb. 1 14 where it is said they are ministring spirits sent forth to minister for their sake which shall be heires of salvation And concerning diuels these places must needes be vnderstood according to the letter Satan pr●uoked Dauid to number Isra●ll The deuil hath bene a murtherer from the beginning and abode not in the truth because there is no truth in him whe● h● sp●ak th a li● 1 Chro. 21.1 Ioh 8.44 Iames 2 19 mar 5 12 Luc. 4 2 Pet 2.4 Ivde 6 then speaketh be of his owne for he is a lyar The divels beleeue tremble All the diuels besought Iesus Iesus was 40. dayes tempted of the diuel The diuel saide if th●u be the sonne of God c. The