man compassed with sinne is able to see He saw posteriora Dei the backe parts of God for so God sayd vnto him y Exo. 33. v. 22 I will couer thee with mine hand whiles I passe by z 23. After I will take away mine hand and thou shalt see mine hinder parts but my face shalt thou not see Whereupon S. Austen sayth very aduisedly a August de Symbolo aâ—… Catethâ—…menos li 〈◊〉 ca. 3. Ipsa sunt illa posteriora Dei Christus Dei Those hinder parts of God were the Christ of God Which exposition Christ confirmeth when he sayth b Iohn 8. Your Father Abraham reioyced to see my day and he saw it and was glad Other shewes of Gods glorie some others had as Elias in the Caue the People in the Wildernesse Salomon in his Temple and Iohn Baptist in Iordan when he saw the Holy Ghost descend like a Doue and abide on Christ but none of those was the sight of Gods face which no mortall man can see and liue And that is the true and essentiall ioy of heauâ—…n to which all other degrees of perfection and happinesse are consequent c August dâ—… ciuitate Dei li. 16. â—…a 9. Videns Deum quod erit in sine praemium omnium sanctorum The sight of God sayth Austen shall in the end be the reward of all his saints Which doctrine he learned from S. Paul and S. Iohn the Apostles of Christ and they from their Master d 1. Cor. 13. Then we shall see him face to face and then shall I know sayth S. Paul euen as I am knowen When Christ shall appeare sayth S. Iohn e 1. Iohn 3. we shall be like to him for we shall see him as he is And so our Sauiour f Iohn 14. I will loue him that loueth me and shew mine owne selfe vnto him g Defenâ—… 〈◊〉 120. li. 15. Secondly it is true the Apostle sayth that here we walke by faith and liue by hope yet some rare exceptions do not ouerthrow this generall course The Scriptures are true with you saue where you list to make exceptions of your doctrine as not conteined in them nor agreeing with them No man in this life Christ Iesus only excepted had euer any such vision of God or possession and fruition of his heauenly kingdome that he did not walke by faith and liue by hope Paul was h 2. Cor. 12. taken vp into the third heauen and heard words not lawfull or not possible for man to vtter Did he then cease to walke by faith who after and alwayes prosessed of himselfe i 1 Cor. 13. Now I know in part but then I shall know as I am knowen And including himselfe with the rest k 2. Coâ—… 5. We walke by faith not by sight And â—…xactly speaking of himselfe l Galat. â—… That I now liue in the flâ—…sh I liue by the fâ—…ith of the Sonne of God m Phil. 3. that I may know him and the vertue of his resurrection and fellowship of his afflictions not as though I had alreadie attained to it but I endeuour my selfe to that which is before and follow hard towards the marke for the price of the high calling of God in Iesus Christ. If you dare defend that Paul in Paradise did see God face to face then may you say that at that time he walked not by faith but by sight but if that be a plaine errour then Paul as yet attained not the sight of Gods face nor the crowne of righteousnesse layed vp for him which should be giuen him by the iust Iudge at that day and consequently neither faith nor hope ceased in Paul notwithstanding his being in the third heauen The like I say of S. Iohn who n Reuâ—…l 4. saw a dore open in heauen and was willed to come vp thither and of all the Saints that either talked with God or had any manifest reuelation of his glory whiles here they liued The transfiguring of Christ in the mount was to him not only a ioyfull hope but a reall taste of his very heaueâ—…ly ioyes That transfiguration of Christ whether it were for himselfe or for the confirmation of his Disciples the Scriptures doe not precisely determine When a voice came from heauen to Christ in the audience of all the people Christ answered This voice came not because of me but for your sakes S. Peter who was one of those Disciples that saw him transfigured writeth thus of it o 2. Pet. 1. We followed not deceiuable fables but with our eyes we saw his Maiestie for he receiued of God the Father honour and glory when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory This is my beloued Sonne in whom I am well pleased This voice which was greater glory than his transfiguration came in respect of them to confirme them in their faith and obedience to the Sonne of God then incarnate and yet to assure their eyes by sight as well as their â—…ares by that voice he was transfigured before them but this transfiguration did not frâ—…e Christ from feare sorrow shame violence and death which followed and therefore this was not heauen to him nor all the glory prepared for him but an outward shew thereof to establish rather his Disciples then himselfe For his soule within him had here on earth greater glorie continually then a transitorie change of his body as namely the personall vnion with God which no creature man nor Angell in earth or heauen had or hath besides him the fulnesse of Gods spirit resting on him by which he knew all the counsell and will of God and all the secrets of mens hearts power ouer all flesh and command ouer all creatures which neither Saint nor Angell in heauen hath In the glory of his body Moses and Steuen did here on earth in part communicate with him P 2. Cor. 3. Moses face did shine when he knew it not The children of Israel could not behold the face of Moses for the glorie of his countenance which so glittered that the children of Israel were afrayd to come neere him he forced to put a vaile vpon his face when they spake with him and yet Moses q Exod. 34. ver 29. wist not that the skin of his face shone bright And likewise r Acts 6. all that sate in the councell where Steuen was conuented condemned looking stedfastly on him saw his face as the face of an Angell that is bright and glorious though Steuen knew it not no more than Moses for ought that the Scripture noteth of him saue that in the end Steuen s Acts 7. looking stedfastly into heauen saw the glory of God and Iesus standing at the right hand of God But the inward and continuall glorie of Christes soule heere on earth was proper to him no man nor angell matching him therein How come you then to attribute heauen vnto Christ for the
sayth d 1. Tim. 5. I charge thee in the presence of God and of the Lord Iesus Christ and of the elect Angels that thou obserue these things without preiudice or partiaâ—…tie And againe we are made a e â—… Cor. 4. spectacle to the world to angels and to men And likewise s The woman ought to haue power on her head because of the Angels that is she ought to couer her head in signe of subiection to the power of the man because the Angels beholde this as all other actions of men either in the Church or in the world From this power to heare and see what is sayd and done on the face of the earth euen in the secret and darke places thereof the diuell is not excluded in that he is an Angel though fallen from heauen and cast vnto the earth yet an g Reuel 12. accuser and so a beholder of good whom he impugneth and of badde ouer whom he ruleth And what maruell that Angels who by their creation excell vs in power and might haue this incident to their condition when as men God opening their eyes can see things done in heauen and earth which naturally they can by no meanes see When Dothan was besieged by the Aramites to apprehend Elizeus and his seruant was afrayd at the sight of them the Prophet encouraging his seruant sayd h 2. Kings 5. Feare not for they that be with vs are moe then they that be with them and prayed God to open his seruants eyes which the Lord did and h 2. Kings 5. he looked and beholde the mountaine was full of â—…ierie charets and horses round about Elizeus i Mark 1. Assoone as Iohn was come out of the water where he baptized Iesus in Iordan Iohn saw the heauens cleaue asunder and the Holy Ghost descending on Christ like a Doue Steuen likewise not only had his face changed in the Councell k Acts 7. as the face of an Angell but looking stedfastly into heauen saw the glory of God and Iesus standing at the right hand of God Which though the incredulous Iewes did no wayes beleeue but stopped their eares when they heard him so say and ranne vpon him all at once and cast him out of the citie and stoned him as a blasphemous liar yet can he be no Christian Christ might see what he would that doubteth whether Steuen saw this with his bodily eyes or no the Scripture being so resolute for it how impossible soeuer it be to our eyes This power to beholde things farre distant notwithstanding all impediments interiected not onely Christ had when he would as appeareth by his words to Nathaniel l Ioh. 1. v. 48. Before Philip called thee being vnder the figge tree I saw thee for which Nathaniel acknowledged him to be the Sonne of God but he promised his that they should see greater things m Vers. 50. Because I sayd to thee I saw thee vnder the figge tree beleeuest thou Thou shalt see greater things then these n Vers. 51. Verily verily I say vnto you henceforth you shall see the heauens open and the Angels of God ascending and descending vpon the Sonne of man Since then Christ could and o Luke 10. vers 18. did see Satan like lightning fall downe from heauen I make no doubt but he could open his owne eyes to see the remote parts of the earth when it pleased him though vsually he did it not by reason he needed it not for he knew all things and euen what was in man which the Angels doe not and therefore needed not any such vse of his eyes but when he saw his time which in this case he might like lest the dâ—…uell should despise him as hauing greater power and cleerer sight then Christ did or could shew himselfe to haue For which cause also Christ would stand on the pinnacle of the Temple without the diuels helpe to let him know that he wanted not power to doe greater things then the diuell vrged him vnto but onely that hee would take his owne time and do nothing at the diuels instigation or motion nor repugnant to the will and pleasure of God A third way the diuell had if Christ would permit it to set these things before our Sauiours eyes Satan is able not onely to assume what shapes he will and to transforme himselfe into an Angell of light but also to make specters and shewes of any thing in the aire and to deceiue the eyes of men when he is suffered by God so to do which not onely experience of all ages but the Scriptures themselues confirme wherein all p 2. Thess. 2. false woonders and signes are ascribed to the operation of Satan By this meanes Simon the Sorcerer so bewitched the whole citie of Samaria that q Acts 8. they all from the least to the greatest gaue heed vnto him and sayd This man is the great power of God The Sorcerers of Pharaoh r Exod 7. turned their rods into serpents and changed the riuers into r Exod 7. bloud and brought s Exod. 8. frogs vpon the land of Egypt as Moses and Aaron did and other miracles could the diuell haue done as we see by killing of Iobs t Iob. 1. sheepe and seruants with fire from heauen and the u Iob. 2. smiting of Iobs bodie with sore boiles had not the hand of the Almightie stopped him and thereby made the Sorcerers confesse that x Exod. 8. v 19 there was the finger of God It was therefore no hard thing for Satan to frame the appearances of kingdomes and cities and shew the similitudes of them from euery part of the earth since they are but the figures and semblances of things that we see with our eyes which Angels good and badde haue in their power when they are sent of God to do his will Howbeit Satan could not delude the eyes of Christ without his knowledge and leaue though Satan did not so thinke And therefore all these wayes being possible yet I thinke the second most agreeable to the words and see no cause why we should measure Christs sight when pleased him by mans reason when as he did so many things heere on earth aboue all humane power and reason For he often y Marke 4. walked on the sea and z Iohn 20. came and stood in the midst of his disciples when the doores were shut and made the ship that receiued him in the sea of Tiberias a Iohn 6. to be by and by at the land whither they went besides many thousand miracles which he wrought with his word and hand whiles he conuersed amongst men Of which if no Christian may make any question why flie you to imaginations or visions so long as Christ had power enough with his eyes to behold whatsoeuer Satan could shew him It was Satans act you will say to shew them and not Christes Satan as an angell might see
sorow necessarie in the sacrifice for sinne of his sanctitie with godly sorrow which was despised with our iniquitie the mitigating of his anger with humble and earnest praier which was prouoked with our contempts were they not three different effects euen in Christ himselfe and so might stirre vp three religious affections of feare sorrow and prayer Why then should they be confounded in Christ whose humane nature might yeeld all three to God as well in respect of pietie to God and of charitie to men as in regard of his office for the satisfaction of our sinnes for he might not approch the presence of God as a Priest with our person and cause who were sinnefull though he were innocent and holy to make intercession and sacrifice for our sinnes but he must giue God his due glorie haue compassion on our miserie and mediate for our safetie As therefore I see no cause to exclude these affections and actions from the satisfaction for sin so I see greater reason to include them in the sacrifice for sin except we make Christ a Priest onely by his SVFFERINGS leaue him neither any honor of OFFERING nor right of PRAYING for vs in the purgation of our sins which were a strange kind of Priesthood no way answerable to the Leuiticall in that wherin the apostle compareth them For in the Law the Priest was to present the sacrifice to God and to pray for the trespasser which if you thinke needlesse in the true sacrifice that should propitiate the sinnes of the world you must correct the Apostle that maketh the Law a figure of the Gospell though the person of the Priest and the price of the sacrifice farre excell all that was vnder the Law b Defenc. pag. 99. li. 20. Furthermore you knit in within this foure other seuer all causes of Christes agonie as you recken them pa. 27. First his taking of our infirmities in his flesh to cure them Secondly his breaking the knot betwixt bodily death and hell which none but hee was able to doe Thirdly Gods anger which might be executed on his bodie but was mitigated by him Fourthly the desire he had to continue the feeling and enioying of Gods presence with his bodie As there is no one thing in the Scriptures that receiueth and hath more diuers opinions of it than Christes agonie in the Garden so I proposed as many as had any coherence with trueth and left the Reader to make his choise which he liked best Howbeit I did not pag. 27. recken foure seuerall causes of Christes agonie as you mistake but of the c Serm. pag. 27. li. 23. feare which Christ had and shewed of his bodily death His agony had other parts and affections besides feare and astonishment as sorow zeale submissiue and intentiue prayer and a bloudie sweat the obiects and ends whereof might be as different as the things themselues For example Christes feare in the Garden might haue many respects and causes as well as his sorow He might feare the glory of God now sitting in iudgement to receiue recompense for the sinnes of his elect For as Christ himselfe who best knew it confirmeth it by saying d Iohn 12. Christes manhood might feare the glorie of Gods iudgement Now at hand is the iudgement of this world now shall the Prince of this world be cast on t so wee must not thinke so mightie and weightie matters as the iudgement of the world and the casting out of Satan the accuser of his brethren and the admitting the Redeemer to present himselfe here on earth for our cause to the face of God in iudgement were decreed and setled by God without some reuelation of his glorie and maiestie meet for those persons and purposes For this is a rule which may euery where be obserued in the Scriptures that when God is described as a Iudge he is sayd to sit in a Throne and all the host of heauen to stand before him to resemble the glory of his iudgement as we finde in Daniel 7. vers 9 10. Esa. 6. vers 1 2. 1. Kings 22. vers 19. Wherefore Dauid sayth e Psal. 9. v. 7. The Lord hath prepared his throne for iudgement This Michaiah and Esay the Prophets say they SAW which whether it were by sight as Steuen f Act. 7 v. 55. looked stedfastly into heauen and with his eyes saw the glory of God and Iesus standing at the right hand of God or in spirit as Ezechiel waking and g Ezech. 8. sitting in his house with the Elders of Iudah before him was by a diuine vision brought to Ierusalem to see all the abominations there committed I dare not determine Christ himselfe sayth I saw Satan fall downe from heauen like lightning Which way soeuer Gods glory in iudgement was reuealed vnto Christ and beheld of Christ in the Garden it was able for the time of his humilitie to impresse a religious feare and trembling into his humane nature since Christ came now by iudgement to haue the burden of our sinnes taken from vs and layed vpon him that he might make satisfaction for them Another thing that Christ might iustly and yet religiously feare in the Garden offering now to ransome man from the wrath of God was the POWER of Gods wrath Hâ—… might feare 〈◊〉 pâ—…wer of Goâ—…s wrath 〈◊〉 our sinne whiâ—…h hâ—… was to â—…eare which is fully infinite and so farre exceedeth the strength and reach of mans nature that our earthly infirmitie to which Christ submitted himselfe for our sakes can not comprehend the greatnesse thereof nor thinke on the power thereof without feare and trembling h Psal. 90. v. 11 Who knoweth saith Dauid to God the power of thy wrath for according to thy feare that is as thou art feared so is thine anger Contempt and carelessenesse kindle and increase the wrath of God against vs feare and submission asswage it And when I name feare I meane not a dreadfull distrust of Gods purpose towards vs which is desperation but a perswasion and confession of his power ouer vs whereby we feare to displease him and tremble before him withall submission when we haue displeased him This feare Christ teacheth his disciples when he saith I will shew you Luc. 12. whom you shall feare feare him which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell yeâ—… I say feare him not meaning they should firmely beleeue God would euerlastingly condemne them but that thinking on his power preuailing here and in hell they should beware to prouoke him and with all humilitie prostrate themselues before him when they had offended him to preuent his anger Christ you will say needed not thus to feare since he was no sinner For himselfe he needed not because he was innocent and obedient in all thinges to the vttermost but since he was at this time now to beare the burthen of our sinnes in his body and to haue the chasticement of our peace laid
his owne most free and fore-determined will would he then so mournefully grieue and complaine thereat It hath no reason nor likelihood in it You runne your selfe out of breath and quite besides the way You shall not need to perswade me that Christ was resolued and willing to die I perfectly beleeue it and easily confesse it but how as he himselfe declared the spirit was willing the flesh was weake The minde of Christ apprehended and persued all these things which you mention but that excludeth not the naturall dislike which Gods will is all men should haue of death This imperfection of mans nature since it pleased Christ to taste as well as the rest of our infirmities and affections you may by no respects nor rewards make the weakenesse of Christes flesh to which he submitted himselfe the Weaknesse appered in Christs flesh but willingnesse in his spirit same or equall with the willingnesse of his spirit which had and shewed the abundance of all grace Wherefore I maintaine both in Christ a voluntarie sense of the weaknesse of our flesh and an heauenly strength of the inward man which expressed but ouerballanced the naturall desire of the outward man in Christ. And still you harpe on that one string which is vtterly out of tune that he would not do it So extreamly and So mournefully This extremitie is only your fansie for I say Christ did it meekely obediently and faithfully assuring himselfe that his Father who all this while had tried his patience would at his prayer not onely end his paine but make heauen and earth to witnesse what account God made of him though for a season he left him in their hands to be made a sacrifice for our sinnes u Defenc. pag. 111. li. 15. Lazarus when he was returned from the ioyes of heauen to take againe his rotten carcase yet he grieued not at it nor ought he so to haue done When you sincke in reasons you ascend to reuelations Who tolde you that the soule of Lazarus was in the ioyes of heauen when Christ raised his bodie from the graue Christ placeth the soule of the other Lazarus that died at the rich mans doore in Abrahams bosome to be comforted and doe you take vpon you to place this Lazarus that was brother to Marie and Martha in the very ioyes of heauen Where was his soule those foure dayes you will aske It is not for you to aske nor for me to answere The things after this life and out of this world it is not lawfull for me or you farder to enquire then the Scripture reuealeth That such as are raised from the dead should be able by experience to report the ioies of heauen or the paines of hell or the secrets of Gods kingdome is a thing not permitted by God as we find by Abrahams answeare to the rich man praying that Lazarus might be sent to his fathers house God hath places and Angels enough to keepe the soules of such as he meaneth shal be returned to this life though it be neither in hell nor in heauen From hell no man is released and from heauen no man is dismissed that hath once seene God face to face When x 1. Cor. 13. that which is perfect is come then that which is in part shall be abolished sayth the Apostle And will you aduenture to abolish perfection after it is come and to bring men backe to this mortall life that haue seene God in the fulnesse of his glory whom no man liuing can see depriuing them of that vision perfection and brightnesse which the ioyes of heauen haue in them It is an enterprise meet for such an encounterer as you are Paul liuing was taken vp into y 2. Cor. 〈◊〉 the third heauen euen into Paradise where he 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which he might not vtter Was Paul then in the ioyes of heauen I trow not For he sayth Lest I should be exalted out of measure through the abundance of reuelations there was giuen vnto me a sting in the flesh euen the messenger of Satan to â—…uffit me If the abundance of reuelation would so exalt Paul when he was but taken vp into Paradise that he needed the messenger of Satan to humble him how would the ioyes of heauen and cleercnesse of Gods face beheld in his glory exalt men that should afterward liue againe in this wretched world And therefore this is like the rest euen a bolde assertion of things vnknowen whereas God wanteth no meanes nor places extraordinarie to detaine the soules of such as shall in his counsell returne to this life without knowing the secrets or possessing the ioyes of heauen z Defenc. pag. 111. li. 22. If your Fathers proue any thing towards your meaning it is this because that he complained of his bodily dying Howbeit they say not that he thus complained only and meerely The Defender 〈◊〉 the Fathers proue my meaning for that Neither do I thinke will you plainly holde this NEITHER DO VVE DENIE THE OTHER If the Fathers meaning be which you now consesse that Christ on the crosse complained because of his bodily dying then proue they as much as I produced them sor and your admitting this exposition of theirs sheweth that all this while you idlely sought to subuert their assertion with your strong allegation as you supposed to no purpose since now you denie it not And where you pretend they say not ONLY and meerely for that you come too late with your exception For since Christ made no complaint on the crosse but this My God my God why hast thou forsaken me if in that he complained because of his bodily dying as you do not denie then all proofe for your hell paines out of those words is quite excluded aswell by their opinion as by your owne confession And your making Christs complaint on the crosse to be a Pa. 111. li. 22 improbable yea vnlawfull conuinceth you by your owne mouth that within the compasse of fiue lines you are contrary to your selfe and charge Christ with vnlawfull mourning which amounteth to as much as sinfull As for mine opinion what respects Christ might haue in that complaint of his I haue before deliuered so that your so grieuing and so mourning only and meerely for that is but a sillie refuge when you can not otherwise resist the trueth b Defenc. pag. 111. li. 32. 28. These Fathers had no purpose here to exclude the suffering of Christes soule but only to denie that his Godhead suffered They stroue here with heretikes whose controuersies were farre from our question Indeed the heretikes against whom they wrote tooke great holde of these places on which you build your hell paines and because they were Heretikes alwayes vrged the same places whiâ—…h the Desender doth somewhat darke and doubtfull they stumbled many weake Christians with them euen as you doe Their purpose I know was to proue Christ no God in nature because he feared and sorowed in
110. li. 28. exceeding generall and constant ioy and had as Dauid foreprophesied of him i 34. constant and continuall ioy in God was there no feeling of all this triumph and ioy so exceeding constant and continuall May a man be so franticke as to confesse that Christ felt all this and yet to say he had no comfortable feeling This may be called the death of the soule To him that calleth light darknesse good euill faith feare ioy discomfort this may seeme death which by all the rules of the sacred Scriptures is called the life of the soule heere on earth but by no man that vnderstandeth or careth what he sayth can this be called or defended to be the death of the soule k Defenc. pag. 113. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 As it is life to the soule to feele and to enioy the glory of God Psal 16. 21. so it is death to feele the want and absence thereof vtterly Hauing abused the Fathers at your pleasure you offer now the like if not worse to the Scriptures The sixteenth Psalme vers 11 not 21 as you quote it sheweth vs that there is a way to life reuealed here on earth but the fulnesse of ioy is in Gods presence when we shall behold his face as the Angels doe in heauen The way to life is grace wherewith Christ was replenished from his mothers wombe and in greater measure then all his members For he had the fullnesse thereof in this life where the perfectest men haue but a measure thereof and we l Iohn 1. all haue receaued of his fulnesse The plenty of pleasure which is at Gods right hand is euerlasting glory both of soule and body into which Christ entred after his Resurrection How doth this prooue that Christs soule was dead during the time of his Paâ—…sion if a man would seeke out a place to confirme the contrarie he cannot light on a better For these words pertaining directly to Christ on the crosse conclude that euen in the midst of his sufferings m Psal 16. v. 11 the waies of life were made knowen to him by God and that after his rising againe God would Replenish him with the ioy of his countenance which was euerlasting glory in the heauens The one he possessed the other was promised more then which the soule of man cannot enioy in this life Now except this be your rage rather then your reason that all mens soules are dead till they come to behold God face to face in the heauens I see not what you can hence collect touching the death of Christs soule The contrarie may be soundly concluded out of this place For the wayes of life were made knowen to him here on earth and by him to all men liuing since he prosessed himselfe to be the n Iohn 14. Way and the Truth and the Life and the promises of God to him as farre exceeded all honour and glory reserued for men as it was possible for the head to excell his members o Defenc pag. 113 li. 1â—… This heauenly life Christ tasted a while in his transsiguration this death he felt besides his bodily death on the Crosse. If Christ neuer tasted an heauenly life but in his transfiguration then all the time of his conuersing heere on earth he felt your hellish death and not in his passion only but what madnesse is this to affirme either of Christ or of his members that their soules are dead till they come to behold Gods face in the glory of his Kingdome If these be your best proofes for the death of Christs soule 〈◊〉 heed you be not estrâ—…nged from the life of God through the ignorant wilfullnesse or your heart that thus confound heauen and earth life and death to maintaine your fansies against both Fathers and Scriptures But of the death of Christs soule we shall haue better occasion afterward to speake when we come to handle it at large where I will by Gods grace let the Reader see how resolutely and absolutely the Fathers ioyning with the Scriptures repell the death of Christs soule as a pestilent point of false doctrine vnlesse we take it as a figuratiue kind of speach which is nothing to the principles of our faith nor to the true price of our Redemption since we must not conuert the truth of Christ to figures and phrases p Defenc pag. 11. li 〈◊〉 Your fourth exposition for any thing I see may be granted for it seemeth to be the same in effect that we hold If the fourth exposition be granted then two of your chiefe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 on the 〈◊〉 grounds on which you raise your hell paines suffered in the soule of Christ vtterly sincke For then Christ spake these words of his members not of his owne person and it was no such dolefull and vncomfortable mourning and 〈◊〉 his owne soule as you suppose but a praier full of power fauour and grace whereby the sonne of God auerted from vs the separation that was betwixt God vs and made peace in heauen and earth reconciling man to God that before was forsaken of him q Pag. 113 li. 2â—… Was it remooued from vs then surely it was laid on some body els Now that must needes be vpon himselfe You fall to rouing in steed of reasoning Euerlasting death and hell fire it selfe were remooued from vs. On whom then were they laid Desperation confusion reiection were likewise remooued from vs. Were they therefore laid on Christ 〈◊〉 of sinne and corruption in the graue shal be likewise remooued from vs. Were these also laid on Christes person or did he suffer the very same that we should keepe such reasons for your hellish mysteries they haue no force in true religion nor I think with any sober or well aduised reasoner The punishments of this life imposed on all mankind Christ suffered for vs and by them freed vs from euerlasting damnation and destruction which were the due wages of our sinnes He therefore paied a price for vs which was the shedding of his bloud vnto death on the Crosse and by that ransomed vs from the captiuitie and miserie that otherwise were appointed for sinne r Defenc. pag. 113. li. 30. Where you obiect Athanasius that he could not be forsaken of his Father who was alwaies in his Father it is meerely wrested Athanasius speaketh against Arius also that Christs deity could not be for saken of his Father and so was not inferiour to his Father What talke you of wresting that neuer yet conceaued any Fathers words rightly no more then you doe that of Athanasius which I brought You catch at a piece and runne your way as though you were cleerely acquited but returne to the text and looke on the rest with shame enough Who was he that spake those words Why hast thou forsaken me I trust he was the sonne of God though now incarnate who before his incarnation was equall with his father in the forme of God Els Peter was
they be neuer freed from that horrible confusion in which they lie And therefore they scare the place prouided for them and besought Christ neither k Luc. 8. to send them into the deepe and bottomlesse pit nor to l Matth. 8. torment them besore their time Neither was there onely transgression reprobation and confusion in the place of heauen where the Angels sinned and whence they were cast but of the blessed Angels S. Iohn saith that one of them m Reuel 20. came downe from heauen hauing the key of the bottomlesse pit and a great chaine in his hand who tooke the Dragon which is the diuell and bound him and cast him into the bottomlesse pit and shut him vp and sealed vpon him And were it doubtfull of Angels how they could retaine the measure of their brightnesse and blessednesse in the place of hell yet heare we Dauid confesse of God himselfe and of his spirit If I ascend to heauen thou art there if I get downe to hell thou art there So that the very fountaine of all holinesse and happinesse is in heauen earth and hell and yet the states of these three places are not confounded because the perfection of all goodnesse is present in euery of them The goodnesse and glory of God is not so fastned vnto places that either Paradise or heauen did priuilege men or Angels from sinne as heauen did not the diuels nor hell it selfe can hinder the happinesse of the blessed Angels when they are sent with power from God to execute his pleasure And yet this doth not confound the distinction of places or states in heauen or hell but that heauen is now the place where the brightnesse of Gods glory is reuealed to his Saints besides their internall and continuall vision of God which maketh them most happie and neuer leaueth them whethersoeuer they goe And therefore the Angels that sinned were cast thence that they should not defile the place of Gods presence with their wickednesse and hell is likewise the prepared mansion for the diuels where vengeance from God is powred on them and greater shall be when after iudgement they shall be closed in perpetuall prison though till that day some of them be suffered to beare rule in the aire and to worke in the children of disobedience for the triall of the saints and farder setting forth os Gods most glorious wisedome power and rightcousnesse n Defenc. pag. 119. li. â—…7 Lastly the true ioyes of heauen may be out of the locall heauen as when the glorious Angels haue bene and tarried some while here on earth with men Yet did they neuer for a moment want the toyes and glory of heauen From Angels endued with inward and heauenly light power holinesse and happinesse and by grace euerlastingly confirmed therein no argument can be drawen to our weake sinfull and variable condition neither doe we dispute of Gods power what he can doe but of his will and ordinance whereby he hath appointed heauen to be his seat that is the place where his glory is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and eternall and perfect blessednesse bestowed on all the inhabitants thereof be they men or Angels And though the Angels whethersoeuer they goe or whatsoeuer they doe retaine the cleere sight of God and the perfection of their 〈◊〉 all happinesse yet that is no proofe that we liuing here in mortall and miserable flesh can haue that on earth which they haue For example take some parts or consequents of that heauenly ioy and blisse which the Angels being heere on earth keep immutable and you shall soone see how grossely you erre in communicating their glory to men yet dwelling in houses of clay The Angels of God 〈◊〉 here on earth can neither erre sinne nor die they can feele no necessity infirmity nor miserie they need not eat sleepe nor rest they are indued with light that cannot be obscured with holinesse that cannot be defiled with ioy that cannot be diminished with power that cannot be resisted by men or Diuels Can these things be attributed to mortall men here on earth without open and palpable heresie Wherefore it is an erroneous and presumptuous inference that o Defenc pa. 120. 〈◊〉 2. If Angels may enioy heauen really being in the world that men heere liuing may doe the like p Defenc. pag. 120. 3. It is possible for Gods goodnesse to communicate some reall foretasie thereof vnto some blessed men also A taste of glory which neither continueth nor satisfieth can not be called heauen which is the perfect and perpetuall fulnesse of all kinde of blisse and want of all kinde of miserie S. Peter teacheth vs that God q 1. Pet. 1. begetieth vs into a liuely hope to an inheritance incorruptible vndefiled and vnchangeable reserued in the heauens for vs who are by the power of God kept by faith vnto saluation readie to le shewed in the last time If the taste of glory which you talke of be not immortall immutable vndefiled with any defect or miserie it may not be called heauen nor be sayd to be the inheritance reserued for vs in heauen And therefore though some blessed men haue had a sight of some glory which you call a taste thereof as Moses Esay Steuen and others yet that doth not proue them to haue beene really in the ioyes of heauen How osten is it written of the Israelites that they saw the glory of the Lord and yet they were ouerthrowen in the wildernesse r Exodus 24. ver 16. 〈◊〉 17. The glory of the Lord saith Moses abode vpon mount Sinai and the sight of the glory of the Lord was like a consuming fire on the top of the mountaine in the eies of the children of Israel So when Aaron offered his first offering for his Priesthood and blessed the people t Leu t. 9. v. 23 The glorie of the Lord appeared to all the people of whom God saith u Numb 14. vers 22. All these men which haue seene my glory my miracles which I did in Egypt and in the wildernesse and haue tempted me these ten times certainly they shall not see the land whereof I sware to their Fathers When Salomon had builded and consecrated the temple with praier and sacrifice x 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The glory of the Lord 〈◊〉 house so that the Priests could not enter into the house of the Lord because the glory 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Lord had filled the Lords house And when all the children of Israel saw the fire and the glory of the Lord come downe vpon the house they bowed themselues with their faces to the earth vpon the pauement and worshipped and praised the Lord. I trust the King the Priests and the People were not all in the ioies of heauen and yet they all with their eies saw the glory of God there presented before them and such as were religious and obedient saw it to their exceeding ioy y Defenc. pag. 120. li. 5. That God doth
indeed reueale some reall tast of his heauenly ioies to his children euen in this life I haue already shewed but am not answeared You slide from some blessed men to all the children of God to whom you affirme God doth reueale indeed some reall tast of his heauenly ioies euen in this life What you meane by a reall tast we must learne from your owne mouth by such doubtfull phrases which you may after wrangle about you vse to deliuer your doctrine If you meane ioy in the holy Ghost whiles by hope we expect the promises of God at his determined time that indeed is common to all the children of God in their measure but that teacheth a maine difference betwixt the things heere enioined and reserued for vs in heauen and quite crosseth the new heauen which you would establish For we learne by the Scriptures that our z Coloss. 3. Life is hid in Christ and when Christ who is our life shall appeare then shall we also appeare with him in glory a 1 Iohn 3. Now we are the sonnes of God but yet it doth not appeare what we shal be and we know that when he shall appeare we shal be like him for we shall see him as he is Our knowledge loue and ioy of God and in God beginne heere by the preaching of the Gospell and the working of his spirit but the Scripture neuer calleth those the ioies of ueauen though they shall there continue yet so augmented and accompanied with heauenly brightnesse and glory that they shall not be the same they were For as our naturall vnderstanding and sense and corporall life and flesh shall not be abolished in heauen but abide and be glorified and yet no man is so senselesse as to thinke or say the glory of our creation is the glory of our resurrection so our knowledge loue and ioy which heere are weake and wanting all perfection as being mixed with ignorance and error lust and vnlawfull desires feare and griefe and often obscured and almost ouerwhelmed with infirmity iniquity and misery no wise man will defend to be the ioies of Gods heauenly kingdome where is no want nor defect of any good nor feare nor doubt of any euill inward or outward but as God shall then be all in all so shall we be filled with the sight and fruition of God our loue and ioy increasing according to our knowledge which then shal be the manifest vision of God face to face who is the vnceasing and vnsearchable fountaine of all goodnesse and blessednesse The b Treatis pa. 80 proofe on which you stand as yet not answered is a place of the Apostle to the Corinths applied by many men to the preaching of the Gospel then it maketh nothing for your purpose but if it be referred to the ioyes of heauen as you would haue it it maketh quite against you For c 1. Cor. 2. eye hath not seene saith the Apostle neither eare hath heard neither hath mans heart conceaued the things which God hath prepared for them that loue him If those be the ioyes of heauen which the Apostle there meaneth then is it euident that men are not capable of them whiles they are compassed with sinne and infirmitie but God hath reserued them in the heauens for vs when we shall come to his presence though in the meane time d 1. 2. he hath reuealed to vs by his spirit that such things are kept in store for vs which then shall appeare that is be apparently and perfectly bestowed on vs and we euerlastingly inuested with them The Reuelation which the Apostle here speaketh of is the reuelation of knowledge whereby these things are promised and assured vnto vs not the reuelation of glory whereby we shall see that which we now hope for and enioy that which we now expect This doctrine howsoeuer you would delude it with your reall tasts is plainely deliuered in the Scriptures When Moses besought God to shew him his glory God answered e Exod. 33. ver 20. Thou CANST NOT SEE my face and liue for there shall no man see mee and liue Where God doth not meane that men shall not see him in heauen when they come to be f Matth. 22. as the Angels of God who g Mat. 18. v. 10. alwayes behold the face of God in heauen his owne sonne hath sayd h Matt 5. blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God and his Apostle likewise i 2. Cor. 13. Now we see through a glasse darkely then shall we see face to face But he meaneth that no man liuing in this mortall flesh can see his face Otherwise it is the cleere resolution of the Scriptures that we k 1. Iohn 3. shall see him as he is that is not by faith as now we doe nor by some created shew of his glory as Moses Elias Esai and other the Prophets and Patriarkes did see him for the confirmation of their callings or consolation of their miseries but as the Apostle speaketh face to face Vpon these words of S. Iohn we shall see him as he is S. Austen learnedly and truely sayth l August in 〈◊〉 Iohan. Tract 101. Ista visio non est huius vitae sed futurae non temporalis sed aeterna Hunc totius laboris sui fructum Ecclesia nunc parturit desiderando tunc paritura cernendo This vision of God as he is is not in this life but in the life to come not temporall but eternall This fruite of her whole labour the Church now trauelleth with by desiring it but then shall attaine by beholding it Now if the sight of God himselfe face to face that is of his substance and glory in plaine full and perfect manner and measure be the same with the darke and enigmaticall beholding his graces and promises by the glasse of faith then haue you some reason to say the ioyes of heauen may be had in this life but if in the manner measure obiects and effects of our sight of God in this life and the next there be so great difference then you deceiue both your selfe and your Reader to affirme we haue the ioyes of heauen heere in this life when not onely our sinne our ignorance our miserie mutabilitie and mortalitie but euen our faith and hope do clearely prooue that we haue not that which we desire nor as yet enioy that which we expect and beleeue wee shall haue m August epist. 112. Non corda munda suae substantiae contemplatione fraudauit cum haec magna summa merces Deum colentibus diligentibus promittatur dicente ipso Domino quando corporalibus oculis visibiliter apparebat inuisibilem se contuenaū mundis cordibus promittebat qui diligit me diligitur a Patre meo ego diligam eum ostendā meipsum illi God hath not defrauded cleane harts of the sight of his substance since that is promised to those which serue
mouth of this most insolent prater that I professe I mislike nothing the writings and resolutions of all these learned Protestants for as much as I haue seene and read of them which is as much as I could get touching our redemption by the death of Christ but teach the same that they taught and in my priuate moderation could beare the words of many others those onely excepted who elude the plainenesse of the Scriptures with the finenesse of their new deuices were it not that such hoblers as this is vpon such occasions will neuer leaue their fresh inuenting new meanes and causes of our redemption till they be they know not where Taking it therefore to be no euill way when men of great wits and gifts begin to turne to their owne deuices to see what the learned and auncient lights of Christes Church beleeued and deriued from the sacred Scriptures in those very points of trueth and our saluation I haue chosen rather to shew thee Christian Reader the generall and continuall consent of religious and reuerend antiquitie then to muster mens names of latter times and by disgracing or comparing their labours or learnings to set any man or Church in fire If so many learned and auncient fathers displease happilie some in respect of their priuate contrarie conceits I haue done my duety to declare the trueth and shewed my desire of peace whiles I neuer ment nor can yet bee drawen to impeach any mans name or credit howsoeuer I thinke that some of them swarue from the exact rule and sense of holy Scriptures in some few points as well of doctrine as of discipline THE SECOND PART WHAT IS MEANT BY THIS IN THE CREED THAT Christ descended to HADES or Hell I Shall not need good Christian Reader to spend much time or paines in this question An article of the Creed since it is That Christ descended into Hell and the same deriued from the Scriptures confessed by all Antiquitie and confirmed by authoritie of this whole Realme as well in the booke of Common prayer as in the Articles of Religion ratified by Prince and Parliament it is not for an English man directly to dispute against it howsoeuer retaining the words many doubt or denie the sense thereof I may be the shorter for that the Refuter insisteth onely on foure reasons against the descent of Christ to the place of the damned which our English Creed calleth Hell and the rest which he bringeth is like his former labor that is is nothing but a bolde pronouncing of his owne conceits and a false misconstruing of other mens sayings His first reason is If there be a good and sound generall reason in Christian faith that Christes soule leauing his bodie ascended vp to heauen and there remained till his resurrection and if there be no speciall reason of authoritie to the contrariè that his soule now descended thâ—…n surely euerie good Christian ought to beleeue that his soule ascended to heauen and descended not locally into hell But both these former parts are most true Not one of these parts is true and were they as they are not most true yet conclude they not your purpose That Christes soule leauing his bodie ascended vp to heauen is more than any Scripture expresly auoucheth The order of our Creed leadeth vs to beleeue that Christ rose the third day from the dead before he ascended to heauen That he was in Paradise the same day that he died his owne words to the penitent thiefe This day shalt thou be with me in Paradise may proue if we admit them to be spoken of Christes soule and not of his Deitie as Saint Austen and others expound them but that Christes soule departing from his bodie and returning to the same againe diuerted no whither nor spoiled powers and principalities nor made an open shew of them triumphing ouer them for this there is neither good reason in the Christian faith nor warrant in the word of God but onely your couragious assuming any thing that may seeme to support your cause On the other side what reasons there are generall or speciall for Christes descent to hell though you make light of them the Church of Christ from the beginning hath receiued and professed them not from the mouthes of men but from the witnesse of holy Scripture howsoeuer you turne and winde the words of the Holie Ghost to fit them to your appetite And what so great need is there of speciall reasons of authoritie to the contrarie Will not generall testimonies of the Scriptures serue to proue a trueth except the speciall circumstances of time and place and maner be therewithall expressed The analogie of faith requireth that the head should be there where the members were and where they remaine till their resurrection that there he tarie till his resurrection It seemeth also these texts will prooue it Where I am there also shall my seruant be I will that where I am there they also shall be with me Did you speake of the perpetuall abode of the head and members in one and the same place of ioy and blisse at Gods appointed time Your words had some dependance on Christes promise saying Where I am there also shall my seruants be but this speech of Christes is restrained to a certaine time in which it shall be verified as appeareth by that he sayd I goe to prepare you a place I will come againe and receiue you vnto my selfe that where I am there also you may be At his next comming he will take vs vnto himselfe and then shall we be euer with the Lord. This is the time when his promise shall be performed And though the Saints dissolued are now with Christ that is not only receiued to rest and ioy in Christ but also where the glory of Christ sitting at the right hand of his Father continually shineth to them and on them with full assurance of euerlasting glory prepared for them yet no analogie of faith nor any words by you brought do proue all the Saints to haue their bodies now in heauen because Christ hath his there or that the soules of the iust were after the speaking of these words alwayes here on earth where Christ was or that all the Saints rose with him as some did or that when and where Christ appeared after his resurrection all his Saints must or did appeare with him Much lesse is there any sequele from either that all the soules of the righteous must or did accompanie Christes soule going to Paradise and comming thence so that he could not descend to Hell to triumph ouer Satan and all the power of darkenesse but the spirits of the iust deceased must leaue Paradise and go thither with him I see not but that he promiseth heere his seruants euen a locall accompanying of him after this life and that also generally whither soeuer he went Then was Peter a slender Diuine who hearing these words from his Masters mouth did
God and chiefly Christs soule when it descended to hell not only to be brought thence but euen there by gods hand assisting to destroy the strength of Satans kingdome and to triumph ouer all the powers and Principalities of darkenesse If those wordes did alwaies import a present possession and fruition of heauenly glorie then could Dauid with no truth haue spoken them of himselfe so long before his death when as yet no part of Gods promises to him touching his kingdome were perfourmed But the soules of the faithfull are alwaies in the hand of God whiles heere they are protected by him and after this life receaued in rest though they come not as yet to be inuested with the fulnesse of heauenly glory Yea the words properly pertaining to our Sauiours person and condition after death ` Thou wilt not leaue or forsake my soule in hell doe shew that Christs soule was then in Gods hands and compassed round with the power and glory of God when hell and Satan trembled at his presence and were both vanquished and spoiled by him Your adding that this sentence may be fitly applied to Christ prooueth nothing For though I haue no doubt but Christs soule was with farre greater honour and fauour ioy and blisse receaued into the hands of God to whom it was committed then the soules of all his Saints yet that doth not prooue his present entraunce after death into the glory of heauen and continuance in the same except you will say that at his resurrection and till his Ascension his soule was out of his Fathers hands because during that time it was on earth and not in heauen which were a strange position in diuinity The soules of the righteous were in the hands of God long before Christs comming as the wise man witnesseth and yet were they not in the glory of heauen but in Abrahams bosome as our Sauiour teacheth And so the wise man expoundeth himselfe adding No torment shall touch them they are in peace and in the time of their visitation they shall shine reseruing them to a time appointed when glory shal be reuealed on them though in the meane whiles their spirits were kept in rest and ioy vnder the mighty hand of God The Thieues being in Paradise with Christ the same day that he died concludeth no such thing as you conceaue For first no words there or els where euince that Christ spake this of his humane nature Saint Austen resolueth The sense is much easier and freer from all ambiguities if Christ be vnderstood to haue said this day shalt thou be with me in Paradise not of his manhood but of his godhead And in his 111. Tractate vpoÌ„ Iohn vpholding the same exposition addeth He that said to the thiefe painfully hanging yet healthfully confessing this dâ—…y shalt thou be with me in Paradise according to his manhood had his soule that daâ—…e in hâ—…ll his flesh 〈◊〉 the graue but according to his godhead vndoubtedlie he was in Paradise Titus Bishop of Bostra in Arabia somewhat elder then Austen sheweth how these words may be verified of either of Christs natures How was this promise of our Lord made to the thiefe this day shalt thou be with me in Paradise performed Christ takâ—…n dâ—…wne from the crosse was in hell according to his soule and neuerthelesse by the power of his diuinity brought the Thiefe into Paradise Happily he first caried the beleeuing Thiefe to Paradise before he descended to hell Damascen is of Austens mind The same Christ is adored in heauen as God together with the Father and with the holy Ghost and he as man lay in the Sepulchre with his body and abode in hell with his soule and gaue entrance to the thiefe into Paradise his diuinity which cannot be comprehended in any place euery where accompanying him And so is Euthymius How said Christ this day shalt thou be with me in Paradise because as God who filleth all places he was euery where at one instant in the sepulchre in hell and in Paradise and in heauen But admit the words to be ment of Christs humane soule what reason call you this Christs soule was in Paradise that very day that he died ergo neither that day nor any day els before his resurrection his soul did or could descend to hell You must amend these reasons before any man will yeeld you to haue reason or sense Christ might that very day that he went to Paradise subdue and subiect all power in hell vnto himsâ—…lfe he might doe it the next day he might doe it the third day when he rose from the dead the time is not the thing we striue for which we must leaue to God but the reall and actuall performance of the Apostles words He spoiled powers and principalities and made an open shew of them triumphing ouer them in himselfe which in other words Peter expressed when he said Christs soule was not left or forsaken in hell but God raised him â—…p loosing the sorowes of death or hell that euery knee of things vnder earth should â—…ow vnto him as well as of things in heauen and earth and that euerie tongue euen of the damned and Diuels for there are none other vnder earth should confesse either willingly or constrainedly Iesus Christ to be Lord vnto the glory of God the Father This conquest ouer hell and Satan being acknowledged whereby all power in heauen and earth and consequently in hell conteined in the earth was yeelded vnto Christs manhood after his death and before or at his resurrection we shall not need to be curious about the time and manner thereof The compilers of the centuries at Magdeburge doe well admonish Descendisse Christum in infernum articulus sidei est verum quanam ratione ibi omnia sunt gesta non est expresse traditum That Christ descended to hell is an article of the faith but in what sort all things there were donne is not expressely deliuered Happilie it is enough for vs to hâ—…ld the generall and a more exact declaration of this mysterie wee shall heare in another life The eternall and generall ordinance of God is shewed Luc. 16. to be such that none can goe out of heauen downe to hell nor come from hell vp to heauen You boldly presume after your maner that Abrahams bosome was heauen of which many learned men do make great doubt For if the soules of the righteous were in heauen before Christes death and biâ—…th then were they equall vnto the elect Angels before the resurrection which Christ saith shall be when they are the children of the resurrection and so not before And how were the wordes of our Sauiour true which he spake in his life time No man ascendeth vp to heauen but he that descended from heauen the Sonne of man which is in heauen If all the Saints deceased were in heauen or how had